How would a nuclear war play out? For the sake of simplifying

Mutually Assured Destruction

>>30319541
The US had a major advantage over the Soviets in October 1962.
The US would have probably been hit but the USSR would have been destroyed.

>>30319541
>Oregon master race

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>>30319541
it would involve every major city in american being completely leveled.

it would involve 90% of the soviet union being inhospitable for 300 years

all of cuba would be gone.

i dont think it would destroy everyone, but with the two most important powers effectively decapitated, we would see maybe australia or brazil become the new post-wasteland great power

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>>30321095
not major cities. no one gives a shit about major cities. they want to level military targets, missile guidance locations, etc.

these would be modern targets, but probably not far off from OPs scenario

>>30321233
They'd bomb Norfolk too. And Alaska and Hawaii obviously

>>30319541
>between the US and USSR in October of 1962 during the Cuban missile crisis.

a few American cities and military targets get hit, but for the most part the continental United States is fine. The Soviet ICBMs just didn't have the range or reliability to actually hit the US, and a first strike scenario caused by the US retaliating over the Soviets nuking one of our carriers (which almost happened) would see most of the missiles in Cuba destroyed by the US.

The USSR is gone. In the immortal words of Curtis LeMay, we would have killed a nation. Our missiles were closer, more plentiful, and more reliable.

Europe is fucked. Southern France, Spain, Ireland, and parts of Britain a survive the war beaten to shit, but Germany would have been slagged to hell and back by the liberal use of Russian and American nukes. The Warsaw Pact would have had the same treatment as the USSR. Yugoslavia would have been nuked by the Soviets and probably would have collapsed into ethno-religious civil war. Turkey is going to get the ever loving shit blown out of it. Southern Italy will get hit badly because of the missile bases.

China probably gets ever major city leveled by the US and maybe by the Soviets too, given that the Sino-Soviet Split happened in 1960.

The Cuban Missile Crisis was probably the last time that the United States could win a nuclear war.

>>30321233
What about Bragg?

>>30322704
this is a pic I stole from OPpenheimer, a few months back. (Maybe a year ago) when discussing most likely targets of nuclear strike

>>30320357
Eugene represent.

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>>30322704

Why in the fucking shit would fucking anyone want to nuke Fort fucking Bragg? Did you put even a lick of coherent though in to that before you'd blurting it out and making yourself look stupid? Or are you just that much of an idiot to to think that for some fucking reason Chia and Russia would want to waste an entire nuclear warhead on a fucking tiny northern California coast town with almost no target value for a war??

>>30321233
That isn't really correct. OP suggests a 1962 date, targeting was not the same at that time as it is now.

One size does not fit all.

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>>30322543
Probable Alaska targets. I'm not seeing any for Hawaii of the top of my head.

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>>30324575
I dont think he means Fort Bragg CA. I think he means Fort Bragg the largest military base in the world.

>>30324575
>almost no target value for a war??

It's got Coast Guard Station Noyo River. Coupla boats and 20 odd Coasties could swing the tide of war.

>>30320357
Nothing of value is there

Was there a plan to keep some nukes for strikes much later in a theoretical post recovery sucker punch or was the plan to blow the whole load until there where no more nukes left/no more available launching systems intact?

what the fuck is there in georgia worth nuking us over

aside from like, what, wherever it is airborne trains

>>30326831
>>30326911

In the scenario that the obnoxious anons post is in response to FT Bragg has no strategic value. Consider, that the war could be over in a few hours. Not even enough time for the 82nd to even draw weapons, little alone mobilize.

But the primary limitation is the number of deliverable warheads each nation has. There are simply not enough warheads to hit every possible target. Instead they would have to limit themselves to only targets that are critical.

In the context of the pic that is things that launch nuclear weapons and things that tell nuclear weapons to launch.

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>>30327294
Depends on the scenario. For a modern day first strike scenario you have Thomasville FRC (communications target) and Kings Bay Navel Base (SSBN target).

>>30327358
huh

does that mean RAFB doesn't matter anymore or something
because honestly I've always been kind of worried living within 30 miles of it

>>30327066
Most scenarios would not see a power launching all of their weapons. They would want to retain some warheads as deterrence against retaliation. Even if they couldn't deter all retaliation, they would want to limit it.

Basically, if you launch all of your warheads you lose the ability to say 'it can get worse'.

>>30327379
I see no reason for it to be a target. I think you are fine.

>>30321233
>goddamn tinker afb
100% of my family lives within twelve miles of interstate 44, up and down the eastbound corridor from OKC to Joplin. No one will listen to me about building shelters, either.

>>30322543

Nah. Might hit Yorktown though, same with Seal Beach in Socal.

>>30322704
Army bases have nothing to do with our ability to nuke the attacker, so they're not really priority targets.

Same thing with factories, cities, etc. There are few enough warheads these days that pretty much all of them would be aimed at our nuclear warfighting capabilities, including strategic communications sites (that's why north Dallas gets hit, but Abilene doesn't, and why the majority of targets are in the missile fields or around DC).

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>>30322704

No one gives a shit about Fort Bragg except some Army types who think that they are relevant in a struggle with near peer/peer competitors.

>>30327468
>OKC area
>can not into tornado shelters
What is *wrong* with your relatives?

>>30324575
It's not Ft. Bragg- It's the AT&T under-sea cable at Manchester beach. There just happens to be a USN installation there- seen the jobs posted on USA Jobs.

>>30321233
>DC, Seattle, Boston, Chicago and SF bay area destroyed

Holy shit where do I sign up

>>30322959
Just keep this tread alive for the day and Oppen will probably show up himself.

>>30319541
Both sides would hit each other really bad (mostly targeting military, but back then a lot more civilian targets were on the list as well) and then proceed to use the remains of it's military to try and hold what's remained of their shit .

>>30321095
>it would involve 90% of the soviet union being inhospitable for 300 years
90% of SU is uninhabited as it is.

>>30321233
In 1962, many major cities were indeed targets for a nuclear strike. Many Russian ones still are, as lots of key Russian military command and production sites are just chillin' within city limits.

>>30322664
>a few American cities and military targets get hit, but for the most part the continental United States is fine
And that effing horder of Bears and nuclear subs just, like, disspears, yeah?
>The Soviet ICBMs just didn't have the range or reliability to actually hit the US
I_believe_some_sort_of_validation_is_in_order

>>30327468
Below 50 miles, shelter won't help them much.

>>30330128
>And that effing horder of Bears and nuclear subs just, like, disspears, yeah?
Probably.
They would have flown into the teeth of the combined US and Canadian air defense forces which were formidible to say the least.
The Soviets SLBMs were limited to diesel boats with limited range.
The Soviets would have gotten some licks in, but the outcome is clear.

>>30330205
>Probably.
Not very probably.

I'm also waiting on any solid data on Union having shit ICBMs in '62. Apparently I traveled to a bizarro world where Atlas and Redstone are somehow better than R-7A.

>but the outcome is clear
It wasn't any clear at all to US and USSR military command, but do proceed - you understand the situation so much better than they did, after all.

>>30330205
>>30330246
And here I noticed I'm shitting on Oppen. Kek.

Sorry man. Although I'm still not buying the "USSR gets BTFO" scenario.

>>30330246
The Soviets had two ICBMs in 1962.
The SS-7 (R-16) was the most numerous and best overall.
There were 36 of them, 30 in soft sites, 6 of them were in hardened facilities.
The 30 in soft sites required 3 hours to ready for launch.


>It wasn't any clear at all to US and USSR military command, but do proceed
We have the advantage of hindsight. The CIA had overestimated the Soviet capabilities.

>>30330310
>There were 36 of them, 30 in soft sites, 6 of them were in hardened facilities.
As far as I remember US did not have much more in '62 either.

>>30330333
54 Titan I and 121 Atlas missiles.
In addition a small handfull of Minuteman missile were placed into service.

The US could deliver about 3200 warheads into the Soviet Union over the span of about 24 hours.

The Soviets had about 340, and of those, all but 40 or so were bomber delivered.

The Soviets would have been trounced.

>>30330355
K

>>30319541
Check out What Ifs? of American History. It has an essay about the Cuban Missile Crisis going hot. The resulting war lasts 2 days. Cuba is obliterated (over 90% casualties) and the Soviet Union ceases to exist. The US gets kicked out of the UN for screwing over the world with fallout.

Here's the Wikipedia site on the book:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Ifs%3F_of_American_History

>>30327294
Lmao. Warner Robins AFB you doofus.

We also were doing research at places like the Georgia Nuclear Aircraft Laboratory.

>>30330355
so in october 62, in a balls out nuclear war, the commies are 10x as dead as we are?
that's somewhat comforting

>>30330574
No. The Soviets would be in terrible shape while the US get a small handful of strikes.

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>>30327307
>Consider, that the war could be over in a few hours. Not even enough time for the 82nd to even draw weapons, little alone mobilize.

That's what they always say about the next great war. It'll be over before Christmas goyim!

Fuck no, you'll be fighting in the radiation.

>>30321233
>that one northernmost site in Wyoming where the fallout fucks me over

why isn't Elsworth AFB a strategic target?

>>30330658
Lack of nuclear weapons.

>>30330682
>"""lack"""

>>30330688
What.

>>30321233
>Live in shitty, broke-ass city near Sacramento
>3 nukes dropped in vicinity.
>MFW going to be absolutely fucking erased

I accept this.

Assuming enough warheads every place a submarine telecommunication cable came ashore would get hit. Easier to clobber one shore station than blow up the varied cables that come to it. Command and control nodes would would be wiped out. Communication would be a high priority target.

Forgive my ignorance, but would our power grids be a target as well? I don't know how far the emp blast would go but I'd imagine destroying the power grids would really fuck the country over.

>>30327468
Yeah, OKC resident here. Tinker is one of the major afbs that refit/repair aircraft. It has a MASSIVE building just for that purpose, it is literally a mile long, and they also bought and retrofitted the former GM plant for this purpose as well.
Also,
>tfw OKC Thunder couldn't close out the western conference
Still kinda buttmad about that.

>>30319541
Looks like I'm moving to Oregon.

>>30330790
Not enough warheads for that.

One more thing, Tinker is the fastest for renovating those old as fuck KC135s.
Also, forgot to mention it is an AWACS base, but I just assume every Oklahoman knows that.

>>30330874
TACAMO is the target.

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What's even in Chicago that's worth nuking?
It's just a bunch of nigs and crime.

>>30331010
Literally nothing. Just a large population center.

>>30331010
The vast majority of the USA's manufacturing sector is located within a 4 hour radius of Chicago or a 4 hour radius of Detroit. While both cities are shitholes that might look better if nuked, the goal is to shut down industry in the USA.

>>30331010
FEMA regional center

>>30330364
btfo.

>>30319541
It would have been the end of our civilization. The EMP from even two nukes would have melted every piece of electronics globally. It would have been a new stone age. Just ask that guy who wrote that book.

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>>30330833
can't doubt the based gods curse anon

>>30329047
>>30330205
>>30330310
>>30330355
>>30330585
Works like a bat-signal :p

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>>30331010

>>30330128
Below 50 miles, shelter won't help them much.
My family lives within twelve miles of the highway. The highway is hundreds of miles long. The likely fallout zone almost perfectly follows the highway from OKC to Joplin, MO. I have cousins in Shawnee, sisters in Tulsa, and everyone else in the Joplin area. All of us are far enough away to survive the blast. No one takes the fallout seriously.

>>30327792
I'm not sure anymore.

>>30331320
No

>>30330917
This
>>30331074
And this

The idea is to win a nuclear war. No one gives a shit about wrecking American manufacturing or our ability to maintain fuelers. In fact, we arent going to be shooting at their power grids, manufacturing facilities, non nuclear military installations, or major population centers either. (Unless, of course, there are nuclear delivery systems there.) The only targets the ruskies or chinks are going to hit are nuclear weapon sites and command infrastructure.

>>30331330
Should've greentexted the first sentence.

>>30331341
Are you fucking retarded? Do you think the war ends when the last nuke launch site is taken out?

>>30331360
The idea is to end the nuclear war and then win the conventional one that would likely follow. Bombing the shit out of cities does nothing but piss countries off if they have a means of fighting back.

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>>30319541
>mfw living just south of WPAFB

>>30331360
NO ONE HAS ENOUGH NUKES TO JUSTIFY WASTING ONE ON SOME SHITTY METROPOLIS WITH NO NUCLEAR ARMED MILITARY FORCES OR C3 FACILITIES PRESENT!!!

FUCKING REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!

>>30331429
Stop b8 posting this

>>30331464
What was the bait?

>>30324575
Fort Bragg is in NC m8.

>>30331330
>likely fallout zone
There is no likely fallout zone. It depends on the winds at the time.

>>30326776
>Pearl Harbor
>Fucking HQ of the Pacific Fleet
>Not a target

>>30321233
A main goal in regular war is economic advantage. The same thing for nukes, you best believe NYC, Chicago, detroit(factories a plenty), and DC would be prime targets for an attack.

>>30331676
The main goal of a nuclear attack is to inflict more damage on your enemy than you get.

So your first objective is to blunt their nuclear forces. The current situation is that it would be difficult for anyone to execute an attack on a nations nuclear forces and have enough warheads left to hit economic targets.

>>30331491
That EMP is more dangerous than the radioactive blast itself

>>30330917
>>30330874
It's also the place where depot-level maintenance is done for the B2

>>30331182
I want to hate him, but I cant.

Bump for more oppen

>>30331360
No, he is not. Your position is understandable though. Let me explain.

It works like this...

The US and Russia come to blows over some issue, let's say Ukraine for some retarded reason. The outcome of US action puts Russian national survival at stake - this triggers the Russians to escalate to a Nuclear First Strike (I hope we would never be so stupid as to put them in that position).

The Russians launch a First Strike against the US. For whatever reason it is 100% successful. All bombers and ground based silos are hit and destroyed. US command and control is destroyed. While the subs survived, it will take DAYS to get communications back with them (just go with it, it is an example).

In addition, the Russians have held back several hundred of their nukes. They are now in a position to hit, an already badly damaged, US at will.

They then communicate a message that lays out these facts with an ultimatum, the US will stand down all forces and accept [terms that do not endanger the survival of the US] or Russia will start tapping cities. The Russians could go so far as to hit a city every hour, or even few minutes, until the US agrees.

That is how it works, ideally, with a First Strike.

Conventional Forces would play no part in this discussion.

If the First Strike is not successful then Conventional Forces may play a part. But you go in to this doing everything you can to insure your First Strike is successful. Which means you keep 'purity of purpose', and if it isn't a nuke or doesn't tell nukes to launch you leave it alone.

>>30331542
It does not, I believe, typically have nukes or tell nukes to launch. It would not be a target in a Russian First Strike. However, I do believe it would be a target for China in many scenarios.

>>30331320
lol, nah

>>30321095
So they planned to increas hospitability in the soviet union with nukes? Fuckin juice...

>>30331529
Average prevailing winds are a thing, anon.

>>30321233
Ventura would get hit. Point Mugu NAS

>>30340982
Why?

>>30341893
Not anon your responding to, but imo, the only strategic value point mugu and nearby port hueneme have is the NAS missile guidance capabilities and the ports construction capabilities. The port is one of the few places our navy can dock for major repairs along the west coast.

I do think vandenburg afb would be a more likely target considering its comm capabilities