Ammo

79gr terminal shock

http://www.drtammo.com/DRT-Store/Product-Viewer/223-79gr-Elite-Series-T-Shock

>>30289031
Bit expensive and hard to get but thanks. Any budget/common ammo suggestions?

>>30289055
Walmart should have Federal Fusion MSR, Barnes TSX or Remington TSX rounds along with Winchester Razorback. Get whatever is available at a price you can tolerate.

These are all reinforced hollow points designed for punching through deer and hog skin and bone while expanding to 45 or 50 caliber. Works great on people hiding behind cars as well as drugged up PCP freaks and tweakers.

>>30289055
55, 62, or 69 grain hollowpoints.

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>>30289108
I love /k/

I'll check out all these and compare. Thanks

>>30288955
Cheap 45~55 grain softpoints/hollowpoints.

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>>30289108
What He Said.

Godspeed OP. Keep at least some spare mags ready and go on the offense when capable.

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Think I have enough types to check out at varying price ranges now.

What about .45 in a modern 1911?

I heard there are problems with non-FMJ rounds like Federal HST or Winchester PDX Defender rounds.

>>30288955
>>30289055
>Whats the best self defense 5.56mm/.223 round to defend against rampaging murderous rioters?
>Bit expensive and hard to get but thanks. Any budget/common ammo suggestions?
THESE ARE ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THINGS YOU ARE ASKING FOR, DIPSHIT.

It's like...
>hey /o/ what's the fastest car I can get?
>oh that's expensive is there a budget car suggestion?

Anyway if you want the list of the best for any caliber, go here: ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm

You get what you pay for. Top quality .223 defensive ammo can be up to $2/round.

>>30289398
Doubt I will be going on the offensive because I have family innawoods we will bugout to if shit hits the fan. But I don't plan in getting glocked on my way there or getting surprise stabbed in my own home when/if the riots break out.

M193 5.56

>>30288955
Where do you live?

>>30288955
A mossberg

>>30289426
I think the other posters understood my question.

I just wanted a range of different rounds to compare and make my own decision from cheap to expensive. I don't go online to get told what to buy, I come here to get suggestions to compare and consider.

Thanks for th suggestion though

>>30288955

>mini-14

What are you doing? Get an AR-15.

>>30288955
M855 is fine and if you ever find yourself in a situation where you need to shoot through a Cold War era Soviet helmet @600m you will be glad you have them.

>>30289433
Then you should probably invest in a drone to provide overwatch.

>>30289402
If you're set on a single stack .45, a Sig P220 solves that problem nicely.

>>30289487

Can you back that meme? We were never told M855 is some type of helmet AP round. M995 is our AP round. Is this something the NATO countries say?

>>30289487
Like I said though, thats not the situation that seems to be rising with the local angry minorities.
>>30289496
>>30289522
>>30289474
I would, but I am not a big gun person. I got the mini-14 because they are reliable and require almost no maintenance, and the 1911 because I have always loved that gun.

I plan on shit not hitting the fan, but if it does, I want to be prepared enough to hold my own and get to safety.

>>30289554
Tell us more about the situation you are alluding to, please

>>30289525
Literally what? It's not a meme. The round was specifically made for that purpose when fired out of the M249.


>>30288955

I use M855 because it matches my BDC and is reliable at reasonable HD ranges with the 16." A better and cheaper option is Silver Bear 62gr HP ammo. Great stuff and a sleeper round imo.

>>30289449
In a diverse multicultural city area due to work. Social media is brainwashing cancer I wish people stopped taking seriously.

>>30289571

Care to source this? Like I said we were never told the M855 round was an AP round nor does the FM,TM/TO or Lesson plan for M4/M4A1 state it when referring to ammunition types.

>>30289568
Go on twitter and facebook
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qfcDIwky8lU

Im not panicing or anything, but I prefer to wear a life vest when a storm might be approaching.

The US isn't exactly looking at bright times in the near future.

>>30289603
M855 isn't AP. It will penetrate soviet era pot metal helmets at 600m as it was designed to.

Learn to google.

>>30289554
That's why you need the drone.

>>30288955
Look at it this way, if you ever have to face a human wall grade mob you'll hit a bunch with each shot.

>>30288955
64gr bonded rounds

PDX1 is supposedly pretty boss.
Lehigh offers some absurdly heinous bullets, and underwood loads them even hotter.

Do NOT fall for the frangible bullet meme. They act even worse than fmjs when shot through tissue.

>>30289635
If anything it would just be roaming gangs of a dozen or so armed with hipoints, berretas, glocks, knives and beat up 12 gauges.

These hood gangsters love to fantasize about killing whitey though, I wish they would just appreciate society and stop doing drugs.

>>30289624

>google

Still no source for what you are claiming. There are idiots that claim via google the M855 round is "light AP" or banned to sale for persons under 21, doesn't make it true.

You're claiming the M193 round was dropped for a round whose sole purpose was to penetrate a helmet at 600M, where shooters are trained to shoot center mass and the M249 SAW? Sounds like bullshit.

>>30289664
>MUH DRILL INSTRUCTA SAAAAID

I won't provide you one. You obviously aren't competent enough to read anything I provide. Literally in the first result for M855.

>>30289646
Agreed but do they have any probelms at all in a 1911?

I forgot where I read it, but supposedly the 1911 was meant for FMJ rounds only. Idk just a rumor I'm curious about

>>30289629
Alright you peaked my interest, how much do they cost?

>>30289618
Oh, I know, I've heard the talk myself. However, talk is all I see from the left, per usual. I quite frankly don't think they have the courage or intelligence to attack us en masse in any organized fashion. I'm well prepared for the possibility though and applaud you for preparing yourself as well.

>>30289710
They are waiting for a big ISIS attack at the end of Ramadan to distract all the local police and thrust us into chaos.

Once they realize 911 isn't picking up, they have a high chance of going through the neighborhoods to rape and murder non-darkies

>>30289705

You obviously are repeating bullshit you picked up off the internet. You can stop posting on /k/ now.

>M855 was made to pop helmets at the exact maximum effective range of an M16A2!

>>30289723
Fuck, I wish they would...Itll be the best thing for our country in the long run to be honest. Like Peter Clemenza said in the Godfather, you need a war every so often to get rid of the bad blood. Or in this case, to slap these whiny liberals back to reality

No race war is going to happen. YeH blacks and spics are bold now, but if white flipped the switch it would be water cannons and German Shepherds all over again.
That's why they want to take guns from normal people. So their negro vangaurd can run amok and if they get out of hand the police can check them.
It's sad situation. I don't want my kids born into a race war but that's what is being pushed

XM193 for bulk stockpiling.

>>30289763
The government will crack down and possibly kill all gun owners though. The New World Order is real as fuck.

It's a gamble.

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>>30289706
>Alright you peaked my interest,
PIQUED

IT'S PIQUED MY INTEREST

IDIOT

>>30289814
Those are my range rounds for practice, easy to get and cheap

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>>30289706
It's more that the original magazine was designed for FMJ only. Most newer mags have short feed lips that allow the rear of the bullet to release earlier. This allows lighter bullets and bullets with odd shapes (sharp edges or wide, open mouths) to jump under the extractor and be pushed in almost straigth rather than the "pushed up by the feed ramp, pushed down by the chamber hood" feed of FMJ from full-length, tapered feed lips.

New Colt mags have medium-length semi-tapered feed lips that allow them t feed about 90% of ammo types reliably with only the most extreme deviations giving them trouble.

To feed the weirdest shit you want C. To feed most anything you want A. B is to be avoided because the lips are too long for lighter loads and hollow points and not tapered for ball.

>>30289851
>He's right you know
>http://blog.dictionary.com/pique-peak-peek/

>>30289759
>ARMY STRONG
>Not knowing anything about SS109 or how it became NATO standard
Do they allow waivers for being retarded too?

>>30289967

No, so you don't have a chance.

>totally legit guys, the average conscript is going to pop heads at 600M with Irons. M855 is "anti helmet AP, JUST LOOK IT UP ON GOOGLE!"

>SS109

Well show us something that proves what you are saying.

>>30289593
>diverse multicultural city
Name it

Hay /k/ what about lol 9mm? Quality manufacturer for self defense ammunition

>>30290031
Not OP but I think it's Boston

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>>30288955
>Whats the best self defense 5.56mm/.223 round to defend against rampaging murderous rioters?

>>30290010
>I can't read so I'll continue proving my stupidity.

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2010armament/WednesdayLandmarkBPerArvidsson.pdf

>MUH DRILL INSTRUCTASAAAAAYYYYYDD

kys

>>30288955
Lehigh defense controlled fracturing of controlled chaos hollow tips.

They basically fucking explode into splinters but can Penatrate quite far in the process. If you need to kill people those things will do it every time.

77 grn MK262

55 grn M193

The 77 grn is expensive, but worth the extra money to not die or have someone you care for die.

>>30290031
gotta be Baltimore

>>30290106
Oh, I didn't think of that one

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>>30290078

Looks like you're the retard that can't read

>There were no requirements to penetrate body armor
>to increase the range for the LMG a round that could penetrate the NATO plate (3.5mm mild steel) out to 600m was developed.
armor.

Literately nothing in your own power point from Per G. Arvidsson to back up your bullshit. Nice going, dumb dumb.

>>30289763
This.
You saw what one poorly trained rent a cop could do with an MCX. Imagine what a semi trained and highly determined individual would do to defend thier family?
Get what you can afford OP. SPEW bullets at them, while self defense ammunition does make a difference, if you shoot them 4 or 5 times in a second (assuming fast trigger finger) you will be fine.
>>30289809
This. ONE crowd getting destroyed would make the rest cower

>>30290144
Okay so you're trolling. Have fun.

>>30290173

Do you have some disease that makes words look different for you? It's cool to be retarded, just stop posting your made up shit to others.

>>30290214
(you)

>>30290214
>being this mad about being wrong

>>30290285

Care to explain how I'm wrong? Where in that power point does it state M855 was designed to pop Russian helmets at 600 meters? Can you stop ODing on stupid pills?

>>30290214
>it's cool to be retarded
I don't think you're that cool

>>30290299
>stupid pills
Are you even old enough to own a gun?

>>30289905
Damn, I have a mixed bag of mags a friend gave to me.

Are winchester 1911 nickel-plated hollowpoints a bad meme or are they worth getting over standard FMJ's?

>>30290302

Still can't explain where you came up with the myth of M855's origin, huh.

>>30290335

Where's your proof? Did you just realize you're a fucking moron and even gave me more credence to my claim that M855 was not designed as an Anti helmet at 600 meters round?

>>30289759
The almighty Ian from inrange even covered this. Stop being a pleb

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/03/05/inrange-tv-on-the-m855-round/

>>30290369

>Ian

As much as I like forgotten weapons, he doesn't give a source for his claims. People can be wrong, and there is nothing as of yet that claims the M855 round was designed around penetrating Russian helmets beyond what an average rifleman can hit at 600M with Irons, when even quals are done at targets at 300M with some exceptions.

>>30290360
>thinks he's responding to the same person
>can't accept that multiple people realize he's ignorant

>>30290398

Okay then show us where M855 was designed to penetrate helmets at 600M if I am so ignorant and wrong.

>>30290411
So you can do nothing but challenge it's credibility?

>>30290170
Oh I know to trade off a lil follow up shot accuracy with some higher rate of fire and can hit anything within 100m easy.

Communist mag limits are the only thing forcing me to need every hit to count.

To me, the government declaring a "crisis" and enslaving the country is the scariest part of a real riot. A rifle, a handgun, and the right ammo/training will allow me and my family to survive the murderous mobs well enough.

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>>30290442

Credibility of what? The power point that reads this? It says here "Not designed to penetrate armor". Do helmets not count as body armor any more? Does the "NATO plate" count as a type of Russian helmet now?

I'm asking for a source that states M855 was designed to destroy helmets at the absolute max range of an M16A2 rifle.

M855 is fine.

forgot trip due to crossboarding.

>>30290360
>>30290369
>>30290398
Would you all kindly shut the fuck up? We're trying to fantasize about and plan for an impending race war. Thanks

>>30290560

> impending race war

Dindus don't usually wear armor. Just stock up on cheap M193 as M855 costs more.

>>30290369
>>30290394
Interesting argument you guys got going

So in your opinions, how does the M855 perform on stuff varying from glass to level III body armor to concrete walls?

I just stocked up on it because it was on sale at a gun show 1 time and I heard it was the military's round

>>30290590
I've seen conflicting reports of M855's armor piercing capabilities.

On one hand, plenty of body armor advertisers claim their level III can with stand multiple hits of it. But on the other, you have youtubers shooting right through it at close range with long barrels.

>>30289362
Gunbot is your friend, OP.

>>30289380
This. In an urban environment soft nose frangible rounds are the best bet.

>>30290595

M855 is fine. Some people say the M193 round is more accurate. M855 will penetrate second chance vests and ACH helmets at close distance, but so will a lot of 5.56 rounds on the market. I find it easier to clean than other brands of 5.56 after range days.

>>30290640

M855 won't pen military SAPI plates, shit like AR-500 plates are garbage and will pen all day.

>>30289457
It's worthwhile to stock up on lots of cheap/surplus ammo to use for practice and leisure.
Spend a bit more on a couple magazine's of the good stuff for when you need it.

>>30290661
SAPI plates are brittle and break after getting shot though correct?

Saw some expensive ones for sale online and thought about buying one until I learned they can crack just from being dropped.

Glad to hear M855 will handle anything up to level IV ceramic SAPI plates though.

Where do concrete walls fall relative to III and IV plates?

>>30290073
Any second opinions on this round?

>>30290736

They break, but they can stop some rounds, it's just not guaranteed it will after the first round. Never buy SAPIs online unless you can trust the seller. To test SAPIs try to twist it, it it makes crunchy noises it's cracked. Never tried shooting concrete with it.

>>30290010
Aren't SS109 and M855 the same round?
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2900319638/winchester-ammunition-556x45mm-nato-62-grain-m855-ss109-penetrator-full-metal-jacket
>Winchester Ammunition 5.56x45mm NATO 62 Grain M855 SS109 Penetrator Full Metal Jacket

>>30290590
>>30289442
>>30289814
>M193

M193 (55gr FMJ) is your best bet for bulk buying since a lot of ranges don't like greentip. You've also got the advantage of it doing at least as well, if not better, against unarmored targets as M855.

There are some pretty great JHP rounds out there. I've shot Hornaday before and liked it.

Any one that connects with a head

>>30290790
Yeah that was my conclusion: level IV will stop high velocity penetrator rounds but is pretty pricey and one time use only including dropping it. Compared to III or III+ where it can take multiple hits or get dropped but high velocity or penetrator rounds will go through it

>>30290809

They are. M855 is the DOD name for that round. You can get some cheap M855 sometimes marked as SS109 with no paint indicator.

>>30290814
Thats my indoor range round, I just prefer to have specialty penetrators and unarmored stoppers depending on whatever threats can arise.

Every man should be prepared to defend his own against anything and everything that way we never have to.

>>30289809
The race war is being fought between the sheets. Mexicans and blacks have gangs of kids because whites subsidize it with free healthcare, housing, schooling and food. we are literally paying the worst people in society to have the most kids and penalizing average people for having kids with Obamacare and the inflated prices of everything to pay for the subsidies and policing of the melanin enriched hordes.

>>30291241
Trump 2016

Build the wall and deport the illegals is by far the best option available.

>>30289571
Yes, I use m855 because of this reason as well. Also it does have better penetration long range, it's been proven.

Another thing people don't consider is the ricochet factor, the steel core does not break up like lead does, I have had the steel cores bounce off the ground and still puncture steel at 300yds where m193 just splats.

M855 is better than m193 unless all you care about is grouping in which case why are you not shooting mk262 or some other 77gr variant like Israeli razor core?

>>30290752
That's Remington's loading of a Barnes TSX hunting bullet. A great choice for hunting two legged and four legged varmints.

>>30291925
I don't mean literal varmints, I meant hogs, deer, and coked up druggies.

>>30291945
>two legged varmints
also there's a hog on the box for a reason. It'll do fine with small deer, as well

Not op but live in fayetville nc. Interested in starting a militia.

>>30290736
>break after getting shot
Yes, but...

>>30290844
>one and done
>don't drop it
I wish this fucking steelfag meme would die.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt2Y1I4ZQ_A

http://www.lightfighter.net/printer-friendly-topic/ceramic-armor-plate-xray

>>30290640
>>30290661
In the tests they specifically say M855 is stopped by the plates, manufacturer test claimed this in the first place, all the penetration videos are done with high velocity 55 grain M193.

>>30291891
>M855 is better than m193 unless all you care about is grouping

>not wanting enhanced fragmentation and reduced overpenetration
>not wanting indoor range compliance when steel penetrators could potentially spark and ignite unburned powder
>paying extra for a steel penetrator that won't go through rifle plates anyway

>>30292031
Fixed the lightfighter link.

http://www.lightfighter.net/topic/ceramic-armor-plate-xray

What length is the barrel?
What twist rate is the barrel?

>>30292061
>>30292031
We established that ceramic IV armor stops just about anything that body armor can reasonably stop. Thanks for clarifying the drop heights though.

How do you think III fairs vs IV when shot by M855? IV stops it for sure, but breaks, III doesn't crack but...?

>>30292315
Or some comparable round to M855, I was just using that as an example

>>30292315
IV Ceramic stops it and breaks, but continues to stop a bunch of other rounds.

III that's rated for M855 stops it.
Steel stops it.
Ceramic stops it.
Polyethylene (ultralight) plates fail to stop it due to the steel penetrator. Have to add a shell made of ceramic or more rarely steel to have it stop M855.

Level III that's rated for M193 stops it.
Ceramic stops it.
Polyethylene stops it.
Standard steel fails to stop it due to how fast the bullet is going. Have to go thicker.

The only round that all Level III plates universally stop is six rounds of 7.62 NATO. Any other caliber is considered a special threat that may or may not be stopped depending on manufacturer specification.

>>30292461
Interesting

.308 penetrates worse than M855 your saying?

>>30292574
Standard .308 ball penetrates worse than both M193 and M855 when it comes to defeating different types of non-ceramic Level III armor plates.

>>30292595
Refresh my memory again on .308 vs 7.62 NATO

I know its similar to .223 vs 5.56mm but I always mix it up

>>30292622
.308 is faster and higher pressure than 7.62 NATO but not nearly enough to really impact armor penetration.

>>30292622
As far as I'm aware it's just different loadings for the same round. Also, Imperial vs Metric.

>>30292632
So a .308 rifle can shoot both but a 7.62 NATO rifle should generally only shoot 7.62 NATO?

>>30292709
Yes, that's the best case.

But the rule isn't set in stone these days, a lot of new 7.62 NATOs can shoot .308 fine, though I wouldn't recommend it on surplus.

>>30292632
>>30292662
Nope.
>>30292709
The rounds are the same. Chamber headspacing is different. If it passes with a SAAMI gauge it's good for anything.

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>>30292750
>Chamber headspacing is different
Learn something new every day. Thanks Anon.

>>30292750
So one isn't faster than the other?

>>30292814
No

>>30292750
Meaning 308 can shoot 762 but 762 can't shoot 308? Which is the reverse of the 223/556 rule.

>>30290336
>>30290336
Can anyone answer this?

>>30289402
If your 1911 won't feed HPs, try a different brand of magazines. Mine will feed anything, even empty cases.

>>30292814
one has more chamber pressure, i cant remember which.

>>30290031
if OP is paranoid enough to prepper for muh race war that's nigh upon us, I doubt he's going to reveal his location (anonymously, on the internet, where his IP address is logged anyway.)

I live in a poorer part of philthadelphia, where I'm probably one of 2-3 non-blacks in a 3-block radius. There is no sign of unrest here. I'd be more worried about law changes that strip your rights away than some phantasmagorical genocidal race riot.

>>30292750
>7.62 NATO maximum pressure
>60,191 PSI

>.308 Winchester maximum pressure
>62,000 PSI

>>30292833
>7.62 NATO M118LR - 2,600 FPS

>.308 Winchester 178 gr. Hornady Match - 2,775 fps

>>30292875
Not at all. It means that the chamber of 7.62 rifle varies more. That is all. The chamber might not be safe for 308 if it's at the max tolerance. Checking is required to be sure.
>>30292905
Completely false. The military assumed the CUP value was true pressure. Transducer proved this false but they kept publishing the old pressures. NATO, SAAMI, and CIP all measure in different ways and in different locations. This produces different numbers according to the measurement but the pressure is the same.

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>>30289905
capped for future reference

>>30292955
>The chamber might not be safe for 308 if it's at the max tolerance. Checking is required to be sure.
Hmm any makers that can guarantee a rifle can do both?

bear spray

>>30292937
>living in philly
Cmon man what are you doing. Move literally anywhere else in the state.

>>30290106
Baltimore isn't diverse. It's black.

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>>30290031
Fergusson.

>>30292622
Cambered in 5.56 can do .223 also, .308 can do 7.62x51 but don't do them in the other order. 5.56 in .223 or .308 in 7.62x51 may equal hand hamburger.

>>30293085
work. I'd move in a heartbeat if I wasn't tied down.

>>30292903
What about
>>30290336
?