what is it?

Civilian ARs are not assault rifles. Assault weapon is a political term with no concrete definition, sometimes including pistols and lever actions.

>>30283185
>assault weapon
No such thing
>assault rifle
Civilian ARs are not assault rifles

>>30283197
so an assault weapon is anything a politician wants it to be?

and when is something an assault rifle and why isn't the AR one?

>>30283216
the term "Assault weapom" only came around when Dianne Feinstein started writing the AWB. The military were using M16s and M4s, and many civilian ARs appear visually similar, so she made up the term to make the general public think that ebil scary machine gunsd which shoot tank penetrating boolits are available to the public.

>>30283216
AR-15s that civilians can buy off the shelf are not assault rifles, because they are not capable of fully-automatic fire. Legally, guns that can fire in full-auto are "machine guns," and require approval from the ATF and a $200 tax stamp before a you can purchase one. New machine guns for the civilian market have been banned since 1986, meaning the prices of all legal machine guns has shot up dramatically. The cheapest ones you can buy are about $5k last time I checked.

>>30283216
>assault rifle
Assault rifle = select fire (able to shoot semi AND full auto) rifle in an intermediate cartridge (a term for the smallish rifle cartridges like 5.56x45 or 7.62x39, as opposed to the older much larger rifle cartridges)

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>>30283185
>Assault rifle
A select fire magazine fed rifle in an intermediate cartridge.

This is a universal fairly scientific term.

Ar-15s in American civilian hands are not assault rifles unless illegally modified to go full auto.

>Assault weapon.
Can mean literally anything.

This is a legal (and sensationalist) term associated with weapons regulation not a term from military analytics. So it changes from country to country, locality to locality.

Some countries define a knife over a certain length as an assault weapon, others semi auto firearms, maybe even extendable batons, hell some ban ninja stars by name.

Is the ar-15 an assault weapon? In California and Britain yes, in Florida? No.

So for your education assault weapon is a trash term that basically boils down to "weapon I dont think civilians should be able to own" in popular usage. Wheras the entire world from the most hardline weapons enthusiast to the most radical gun control advocate can agree on the definition of assault rifle.

>tldr assault rifle is a technical term assault weapon is a legal term.

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>>30283262
>>30283258
>>30283233
thanks for clearing that up anons.

have a pic

>>30283279
No problemo. Good to have someone asking questions and getting educated

>>30283274
specifically a detachable magazine

>>30283185
Just buy one dummy

>>30283197
>>30283208
>>30283274
"Assault weapon" actually has very concrete and precise definitions.

Assault weapons are:

Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:
>Folding or telescoping stock
>Pistol grip
>Bayonet mount
>Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
>Grenade launcher mount

Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines and two or more of the following:
>Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
>Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or suppressor
>Barrel shroud safety feature that prevents burns to the operator
>Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more
>A semi-automatic version of a fully automatic firearm.

Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:
>Folding or telescoping stock
>Pistol grip
>Detachable magazine.

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Assault weapons are weapons of war, for mowing people down. How's it feel to live in a Junta war zone?

>>30283348
i.e. scary-looking cosmetic features

>>30283370
So you'd be fine with an assault weapons ban then. Since they're just cosmetic features after all.

>>30283348
Arbitrary features. How is the flash suppressor on an AR supposed to make it more deadly than an SKS?

The assault weapon defintion is only there so politicians can confuse people and take away even more firearms.

>>30283185
If a car is a manual or an automatic it is still a car.

>>30283378
>putting words in my mouth
fuck off m8

>>30283383
A flash hider makes it more difficult to locate the shooter in case of an attack. You don't need it on a sporting rifle.

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>>30283348
Here's your reply

>>30283396
>Implying this has ever beenthe case in a mass shooting ever.

>>30283378
He put it poorly. Most of the shit they take is functional and annoying to deal without
>Bayonet lug
Yeah not many people use that but it's kept around for parts compatibility
>Pistol grip
Yeah you don't 'need' it, but it's fucking nice
>Magazine bullshit
Fuck you, it was designed to hold 30 and be quick and easy to detach. It can be useful in competitions where a reload is needed or even more than 10 shots
>Barrel shrouds
A functional thing legislated away for sounding scary
>Adjusting stocks
I could buy one stock my gf and I can use when we go to the range together, but I'd prefer two so I can fugging be legal rite

Most of it isn't cosmetic and fuck the guy who said that, they've never had to make a legal AR in a cucked state or is just a troll/shill. Not to fucking mention now manufacturers have to make so many goddamn special snowflake adjustments to stay legal instead of just sticking to the spec.

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>>30283185

"Assault weapons" are the ones who can have high capacity magazines with the black scary shoulder thing that goes up, regardless of the fact that magazine capacity isn't much of a factor on a semi-automatic rifle.

"Assault rifles" must have full fire selection including full-auto.

Isn't an AR-15 technically a carbine anyway? I thought the AR-10 was the rifle.
I'm not an ARfag anyway.

>>30283396
When's the last time we had trouble identifying a shooter in a mass shooting?

They're pretty damn easy to spot with or without a flash suppressor.

Maybe the dc sniper was the last one who was hard to spot, but his rifle didn't have a flash suppressor either.

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>>30283396
>Implying this has ever been the case in a mass shooting ever.

>>30283396
Haha hahahaha....hang on, hang on....hahahaha
No. Flash hiders hide the flash from the SHOOTER not the shoot-ee

>>30283404
They're "cosmetic" in that they have no effect on the function of the gun firing. They're all convenience/safety features.

>>30283415
The awb was a joke anyways, for one it didn't actually ban assault rifles, just the number of features on them.

Also, if you were a criminal and prepared to ignore the laws anyway, you could still put together an assault rifle with all the banned features very easily.

>>30283426
Aren´t civilian AR lowers slightly different to military ones so that you cant just swap out the trigger pack for an automatic one?

>>30283396
Is this what liberals actually believe or just something we bait eachother with here?

I don't even know for sure anymore.

>>30283185
>assault rifle

Does not mean anything.

>>30283436
I wasn't even talking about making one automatic, I was talking about just adding all the AWB features. But yeah, civilian AR receivers would have to be machined in order to make them full auto.

I hate to say it, but I don't think we're going to be able to hold off the gun grabbers much longer. We should start considering a tiered licence system, something that resembles best europes.

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>>30283185
Anon, a few have answered your question, but I feel like it might not be sufficient for what you're asking.

>assault weapon
Nonsense word. Basically used by people who do not understand firearms to refer to scary looking weapons: rail systems, certain optics, anything painted black, "military style" (word), etc.

>assault rifle
The AR-15 is not an assault rifle. The AR-15 meets all requirements for an assault rifle, except for one: selective fire. Selective fire means it must have at least 2 modes of firing, not including safety. The AR-15 only has safe and fire. The M-16 is an assault weapon because it has Safe, Fire and Burst (or fully automatic, depending on version).

>>30283348
>very concrete and precise definitions

Anon, although the Wikipedia article you're sourcing that from makes it seem like that is the case, it is far from it. I would be fine with that definition if that is how Assault Weapons were treated universally, but it is not the case and that is why many in the Gun Community deny it being an actual term. The way an AW is defined state-by-state can vary widely, which is not just inconvenient and confusing for law abiding gun owners, but also heavily implies that anyone in a position of power can then use that term to fit the definition of any firearm they don't like. This is bad because it can be used to overreach and outlaw firearms that were not meant to be outlawed in the original intent of its legislation.

I encourage you to look up what the ATF currently defines as a Destructive Device, if you do not believe that this type of abuse of wording is not possible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_II_weapons#Destructive_devices

>>30283470

No.

>>30283498
>assault weapon
>"Nonsense word"

Assault weapon was for a time a very specific and legally defined.

>the AR-15 meets all requirements for an assault rifle

What requirements? The term assault rifle means nothing, either in function or form. It is mistranslated from the German name for one particular firearm.

>>30283348
AWB's don't make any sense.

1) Having a flash suppressor makes a gun longer, less maneuverable, & less concealable. It also only hides the flash from the perspective of the shooter. It's a safety feature.
2) Pistol grips are a function of ergonomics, not lethality. Shooting from the hip, it makes the gun less controllable and recoil more several. Also a safety feature.
3) Bayonet mounts are needless weight. They shift the center of balance forward and make the weapon seem heavier and make it more difficult for younger/lighter shooters. A detriment to effective shooting. Also, if a bayonet is mounted, it moves point of impact and decreases accuracy.
4) Folding or telescoping stocks--which allow EVERYONE to have equal effectiveness on a gun. If you believe in equality, then believe in it for physical as well as mental, social, & religious differences.
5) Grenade launcher mounts require grenades which also require a fair few tax stamps. It's already regulated into virtual non-existence. Also, grenade launchers include a complete mounting system--not the gun it's to go on.

For pistols...
1) Magazines ouside of the pistol grip do nothing but to add length. You've either lengthened the gun (preventing effective concealment) but shortened the barrel (decreasing the velocity and thus lethality of the ammunition). Safety feature.
2) Threaded barrels again add length and decrease concealability. Also, they don't mount handgrips because doing so wrecks accuracy. Safety feature.
3) Barrel shrouds do reduce burn risks. If you've EVER spent an hour shooting, you'll know that guns get very hot very quickly. It's a safety feature to prevent clogging of clinics or hospitals for minor burns (though they don't prevent burns after getting torn up online). Safety feature.
4) Unloaded weights of >50oz is a safety feature, as nobody wants to carry around a 3+ pound handgun. Bulky & heavy=difficult to conceal. Safety feature. <16oz guns typically conceal very easily.

>>30283451
>A man-portable select fire weapon that uses an intermediate cartridge

>>30283436
Yup, there's shelf behind the trigger that needs to be milled away to fit the auto sear

The media narrative has changed folks, they're explicitly naming the AR15. The semantics arguement is losing steam

>>30283531
Stop parroting that utter dogshit.

Assault rifle has no meaning. It was a name cooked up by some delusional Austrian childfucker.

>>30283544
Its incredible how they´ve almost 100% deflected attention away from Islam. Goebbels could only dream of using media this effectively.

>>30283560
except 'assault rifle' does have a meaning because people say it does, vs 'assault weapon' which doesn't have any consistent definition

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>>30283516
>was
>for a time
>not a nonsensical word currently

>What requirements?
Selective fire
Detachable mag
Cartridge size greater than pistol, less then battle rifle
Effective fire of at least 300 meters

>The term assault rifle means nothing
>and I base this on absolutely nothing

>hurdur, stg44 = storm rifle, not assault rifle
>storm, as in, "to storm an enemy position"
>clearly they were talking about the weather

The national security agencies have stated that gun control is a national security priority. If the American population will swallow the patriot act, banning ""assault rifles"" by name/pattern will happen. No feature list, no AR AK etc variants period.

>>30283586
>Effective fire of at least 300 meters
>Effective fire

What the fuck is that?

>>30283348
5) Semiauto versions of a F/A firearm... you realize that's pretty stupid, right? Because most handguns have F/A versions for military or law enforcement. Like it or not, it's the cartridge that makes a gun lethal, not the shape it's in.

For shotguns...
1) Again, helps people of all sizes have equal opportunities. Safety feature.
2) Pistol grips on shotguns have a habit of making people drop guns. It also decreases accuracy. While a pistol-grip only shotgun looks cool in the movies, the director only shows the hits (and not the fact that 80% of shots will be misses). Also, shot spread (when using shot--birdshot, BB's, or buckshot) is significantly less than portrayed in 98% of TV, movies, or vidya games.
3) Proprietary. Both other categories assume they're semiautos with detachable magazines. Why not give the same basis to shotguns? Also, how do you define a magazine? Because a lot of competition shooters especially would like a word with you.

You ought to realize that, in the age of world ping-pong tournaments being treated as real sports, competitive shooting events are far realer sports. With the number of veterans, National Match events are very popular. 2-Gun and 3-Gun (rifle, pistol, shotgun) competitions are very popular. Rimfire is popular. Trap & skeet are popular. And so are bench rest, long-range, and many other different areas of competitive shooting. Very few people want to compete in Olympic air or rimfire competitions, mostly because such guns are grossly overpriced, excessively fragile, and often need bespoke fitting.

I know your point is to destroy someone else's hobby. You don't care that other people enjoy competition. It's one of very places where people of most all body types can actually compete head-to-head. My 100# sister can out-shoot a 200# football quarterback. Her wife can out-shoot myself. Her 60yo father-in-law can out-shoot everyone with his handgun.

So, in terms of america and your gun laws and what not, do you think it'd be fine if there was a background check, and proof that you know gun safety before purchasing? Would that be fine in your minds?

Curious kiwi here.

Just saying
>hur deer rifles are more powerful
>AR means ArmaLite libs not assault rifle
>AR15 isn't MIL weapon
>"clips" bwaha hahaha

Our arguments need to evolve

>>30283586
>"to storm an enemy position"

With that lump of unreliable, fragile, heavy, overly-complicated iron? Which is clearly better suited as a defensive or support weapon?

The name was chosen because Hitler was a faggot. The Stg44 program was not popular with German officers, they could see the deficiencies. Their enthusiasm was for submachine guns, the automatic rifle (leading to the G43) and the enduring utility of the Kar98k (which Hitler fucking despised).

>>30283654
What about
>If yuuh tayk muh guns, I'ma heil hitler and shoot up the nearest school befour yuh can touch muuh guns

>>30283640
you do get a background check if you buy from a dealer, just not on private sales (which is not feasible for them to enforce). I actually would like it if the clerks asked potential customers the safety rules to avoid selling to fucking morons

>>30283640
Curious bits of info
>Orlando shooter passed background
>has some 'security guard's license
>would have been able to purchase under Australian law
>was on terror watch lists

Their response and anger is directed at the AR15 and the NRA. The mind boggles

>>30283654
our arguments are only counter-arguments to people trying to take the guns.

>>30283677
So without restricting gun access to law abiding citizens without mental illnesses, what can you do? Trying to understand both sides, but I hate the "BAN ALL GUNS" stance that so many libtards are taking. I wish I could collect guns easily, but lots of process, police vetting, police searching my home so I can prove it will be stored safe, so on. Just not feasible for me to do atm.

>>30283682
ban mudslimes from owning guns? and anyone with previous mental illnesses????

>>30283674
Fuuuuhg, cmon we can do much better in this debate. Fuck my shit up, the debate is framed in the constitution on 500 years of common law.

>>30283640
We already have BGC for dealer sold firearms and BGC for private sales are impossible to enforce, legally an unnecessary financial burden, and a pseudoregistration. Responsibility with your property should be encouraged, but mandated courses are a waste unless they are included in public curriculum like it used to be in schools and boy scouts. The issue is that nobody wants to be responsible for their own actions, safety, and even lives in extreme cases.

>>30283699
Have hopeful gun owners seek out said courses, and pledge that they take full responsibility for their firearm, and it's uses, storage and safety? Ban everyone else.

>>30283708
I'd prefer to revoke their citizenship and send them to Australia and ship in the kangaroo fuckers with the desire to be responsible Americans instead of leeches.

>>30283708
Something like this will have to happen. Gun clubs, graduated license system of some sort.

I'm all for the "no" argument if that's what the consensus is, I'm unsure if it will be effective much longer.

>>30283723
Trust me, you do not want bogans with guns.
Although, kiwis aren't as bad, just stay away from the brown ones :^)

>>30283733
I said responsible. Keep your mad max tier bogans and abos.

Feel free to bring didgeridoos as cultural exchange presents for a high point.

>>30283687
IMO if there is licensing it should be as easy as a driving permit. probably be easier since guns are mechanically simpler, they're easier to operate than cars. Then your ID / drivers license gets upgraded to a gun license, and your photo is replaced with one where you wear sunglasses and hold two 1911s

>>30283761
You don't need a license to buy or drive a car on private property. Conceal Carry Permits kind of already are analogous to driving licenses in that it let's you carry a gun in public space freely, though unlike the license it doesn't really help maintain anything like a road.

>>30283708
Small problem with this: lawsuits. Here in wi a growing number of private sellers are requiring a concealed carry permit. Why? So they don't get sued if the buyer goes and shoots up somewhere and/or he or she was banned from owning a gun.

>>30283408
"Carbine" as a term gets weird. It can either mean a full sized rifle chambered in a pistol.cartridge, or a standard rifle with a shorter barrel.

>>30283274
>Is that a Famas????

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According to the media the last few days, an assault rifle 15 machine gun with shoulder thing that goes up

He also wielded this automatic handgun assault weapon

>>30283185

I think the news has been properly corrected enough that news now calls them "assault-style" weapons to skirt the non factual claim they've been making for years

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>>30283544
Which is ironic since the shooter used a SIG MCX.

>>30283899
Obama said it was a glock which cant take many clips.

>>30283911

to the untrained eye that thing looks like an AR15, stop being a dweeb about this.

>>30283560
The US military (and every other English speaking military) would beg to differ.

>>30283921
I know that. But my point is if you specifically banned the AR-15, there are a half dozen designs that aren't an AR-15 that would remain on sale. Which the antis are aware of. It why they usually go for a features ban and howl when people find a way around them.

>>30283415
Don't forget that the AC556 is an assault rifle (full auto) that looks like the bottom rifle.

>>30283951
Like the mini 14

>>30283408
I checked out this video and then the channel. Does this guy browse /k/? He seems to spout memes all the time.

>>30283899
I heard that both were chambered in .556 NATO Shells