>A gun is a bad idea for bear protection >Just use pepper spray

>>30211143
Thats what those faggots on /out/ all parrot

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but what if the bear closes his eyes and just mauls your ass?

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>>30211143

As much as I like bears and don't want them to get shot, a gun is a better defense than bear mace.

Most bears are very chill, and have no interest in attacking people. If they know you're around, they won't bother you.
Lots of bear attacks happen because the bear was startled by a person's sudden presence, and it attacks as a defensive reaction, then leaves once it feels the threat is over.
However, there are some problem bears, who have come to associate humans with food because idiots feed them.

Unfortunately, killing them is pretty much the only way to prevent them from attacking humans at that point.

>>30211177

The point of bear mace isn't to blind them, it's to get in their nose.
Bear's have perhaps the most powerful noses of any animal in the world.
From what I understand it causes more disorientation and confusion than pain.

(A gun is still a better defense if your life is in danger)

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https://vimeo.com/156360628

>>30211179
>> However, there are some problem bears, who have come to associate humans with food because idiots feed them.

That will hardly happen if they get maced by the first person they encounter up close.

>> Unfortunately, killing them is pretty much the only way to prevent them from attacking humans at that point.

Yes, but then it's too late. If such problem bears are known, then I agree they should be removed.

But if you're hiking in areas where this hasn't been a problem, mace would seem sufficient and less risky to both you and the bears

>>30211276
I don't care how much risk is in it for the bear. Pepper juice is not a substitute for lead at Mach 1 when it comes to defense of your life from a charging 1000 pound animal.

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>>30211232
>a movie

How effective would a bear mace flamethrower be?

Like just one of the flammable ones and a lighter?

Like would a bear on fire actually attack? or would it just run away?

>>30211177
I would close my eyes and maul THAT ass

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>>30211346
>If somebody breaks into my home, I can shoot to death.
-Human

>If somebody breaks into my woods, the fucking human throw me pepper spray.
-Bear.

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>>30211143

On the internet, no one knows your a bear.

>>30211179
When I'm fucking around in bear country I carry the mace and a gun, though the gun is more for people. Haven't need either so far thankfully since I don't hike the pnw which is full of murderers and black bear are Teddy's

My only beef with people that carry guns for bear is the constant "is x enough for bear?". This shit bothers me not because I'm some bleeding heart, but because I don't put much stock in the average person being able to actually put down a bear, thus potentially leading to an angry wounded bear roving around.

>>30211308
Ever been sprayed with anything as strong as FOX or stronger? If not, go chew up a habanero, jolokia or naga, then imagine you're at least 100 times more sensitive to it than you actually are.

>>30211955
Great, so now instead of a bear, I have an angry bear that's also in severe pain. Thanks but I'll still choose a gun.

Bring a semi auto so you can shootnpepper the bear simultaneously!

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>>30211774
one more!

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>>30211143
>>30211177
>>30211179
>>30211308
>>30212300
God damn it.

Okay, I'll put it in the simplest of terms for you. A gun is like a gun in this scenario, except bears are actually gigantic animals with a lot of mass so shooting a bear is a pretty risky endeavor especially if it's looking to fuck you up.

Meanwhile bear mace? Yeah, you don't use that when you're being charged, bears are not niggers, the mace is a deterrent. Think of them like an aerosol can of instant minefield, or if bears were redguards, a spray that emits a cloud of responsibility and commitment. When you see a bear that's not acting friendly you spray the ground between you and the bear like a spicy skunk, and the bear will go "holy shit people can make burning death juice that rapes my senses" and backs the fuck away. If it charges remember that they couldn't flimflam the zimzam and you can absolutely mag dump your AK into a bear because this is America.

Carrying one or the other in bear country means you're an idiot, you should be carrying both.

>>30212329
When will there be a rail accessory that is pepper spray that empties the whole can when you push the button, so you could do both

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>>30211143
>carrying a gun or pepper spray to deal with bears
>not carrying delicious treats and raw meat instead

Who needs bane posting when you have bear posting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU5cMZymSr0

>>30211143
I can confirm that UDAP bear spray works wonders after being hit in the face with it several years ago. Also, I am not a bear.

>>30214992
This post is funnier than it should be.

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>>30214992
>Alaskan who just finished hiking in bear country.
This is what I brought.

Also, you are a fucking retard if you think you spray the ground. Spray is for the bear to turn it away from a charge.

>>30211143
>not bringing both
>not mounting bear spray on your under rail

>>30211179
>idiots feed them.

Fucking city-tards are the worst scourge of humankind

>>30215140
that grip

>bueno

>>30215218
I love that rifle.

>>30214992
>>30215140
>Also, you are a fucking retard if you think you spray the ground.
I realize the concept of bear spray is confusing for you but it's actually quite simple, that distance between you and the bear is going to get soaked with the stuff. I'm not sure what you were thinking but if you're actively close enough to spray it directly all over the bear (within 20 feet) you have fucked up severely and should be using a gun.

>>30215240
I wish I didn't live in Australia

The only gun I would feel safe with if a grizzly was after me would be a semi-auto magnum rifle.

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>>30215294
Are you retarded?

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>>30215140
Remember to hold it by the magazine with your left hand when the stock is folded.

You'll over-extend your wrist if you try to use the handguard, I missed 5 fucking rounds at a skunk thinking about spraying me because of that.

I was so fucking embarrassed that little bastard got away. He didn't spray me though, which is good.

My point: Hold it by the magazine with your left hand when stock is folded.

>>30215345
Thanks for the tip.

>>30215338
When you spray the bear there's going to be tens of feet in between you and the bear. That's the no-go zone of deterrence. If the bear's going to cross that you have an angry bear and again, use your gun.

I stressed this several times already, you either have down syndrome or you're trolling me. Either way this is the last time I'm telling you.

>>30215338
You're the retard here famalam.

>>30215413
>>30215388
Fucking christ.

>http://www.bearsmart.com/play/bear-deterrents/bear-pepper-spray/

>remove safety clip
>aim toward the approaching bear; >adjust angle for wind direction
>steady your arm and depress trigger with thumb
>deploy in 2 – 3 second bursts when the bear is 30 feet away;
>aim the spray slightly above his head as gravity will effect the placement of the spray

>deploy in 2 – 3 second bursts when the bear is 30 feet away

>>30215474
>>aim the spray slightly above his head as gravity will effect the placement of the spray
Stuff falls down anon what are you having trouble with

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>>30215525
Fuck off trolltard.

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>>30215529
>implying somebody who notices your problems is a troll

>>30211774
No doubt. No doubt.

>>30211822
skeltal kang would be missed.

>>30211143
Protip: carry both, use whatever you feel is necessary at that time.

Bear spray works, why question it? Bears are faster and one of if not the toughest animal on the North American continent. You can blow a bears heart to pieces and it will still maul you to death. And unless you have that magnum handgun or rifle in your hand at the time you see the bear. It will be too late to draw it and shoot. Many a hunter have been mauled when they had their rifle slung over their shoulder and couldn't get it ready in time to stop a bear. With spray you just press a button and spray in the general direction and usually the bear goes away. Some trail guides in Montana recommend you carry two cans of spray, a big one and a small one. The big one for when you run into a bear, the small one so you have something just in case you run into one on the way out.
Or you know, just wear a bell and talk loudly in bear country. Bears aren't stupid. Most won't fuck with humans when they know you're there. It's when you stumble on one and startle it. That's when they charge.

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>>30215585
>the toughest animal on the North American continent. You can blow a bears heart to pieces and it will still maul you to death. And unless you have that magnum handgun or rifle in your hand at the time you see the bear. It will be too late to draw it and shoot.

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http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/bear_cougar/bear/files/JWM_BearSprayAlaska.pdf.

study of 84 bear encounters/attacks, the majority were brown bears with the remainder made up of black bears and polar bears.

"Red pepper spray stopped bears’ undesirable behavior 92% of the time when used on brown bears,
90% for black bears, and 100% for polar bears. Of all persons carrying sprays, 98% were uninjured by bears in close-range encounters. All bear-inflicted injuries associated with defensive spraying involved brown bears and were relatively minor (i.e., no hospitalization required)."

https://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/bear%20spray.pdf.

"based on investigations of human-bear encounters since 1992, persons encountering grizzlies and
defending themselves with firearms suffer injury about 50% of the time. During the same period, persons
defending themselves with pepper spray escaped injury most of the time, and those that were injured
experienced shorter duration attacks and less severe injuries."

Guess the whole fish and wildlife service is run by bears, huh?

>>30215620
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPymVznUatQ

im looking to see what folks are saying about it

>>30215874
lets see wat doctacdad says about .45 ACP for bear defense

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYmaYGu-rkE

>>30215474
Alternative:
Aim gun at bear, fire until bear ceases movement.

>>30215585
t. Alberto bearbosa

>>30215907
it seems doctacdad agrees with me that penetration would be more important for a bear, and 9mm edges out .40 S&W and .45 ACP in that regard.

>>30211143
There is a reason bear spray well on bears though.
Bears are a heck of a lot more sensitive to smell, sound, etc. than a person is.

>>30211143
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM2ifggeH0Q

>>30216026
Addendum:
Forgot to mention. There's a saying I've heard,(I live in Sk. Canada)
If you use a pistol for bear defense. Make sure to file off the front sight for when the bear decides to ram it up your ass.

>>30214992
Yeah, the spray is totally a repellant. Just cover yourself with it before you go out to be bear free for over 24 hours!

You dont waste the spray on the ground you stupid fucker. You can trust someone who been ten feet from a grizzly and the Alaskan dude. Or, if you can read, read the side of the bear spray can.

And unless you're mag dumping a rifle into a bear (read: Grizzlies or brown bears because black bears are not much of a threat to the non retarded; all you're doing is maybe killing it after it dismembers you. I carry when I'm out and about, but I'm under no illusion I'll be able to kill a bear before it kills me if I'm charged. What I do know is I can hit it with a huge stream of fuck you.

>>30215945
That will be after the bear rips your limbs off.

>>30216070
If hot lead doesn't stop a bear pepper juice ain't doing shit.

>>30211143
...and?

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>>30216066
>Yeah, the spray is totally a repellant. Just cover yourself with it
I stopped reading right here because you didn't understand the definition of "repellent." Words are hard, I know, but it's not my job to make you to teach you how to read.

I encourage you to coat yourself in pepperspray though, concentrate on the face and mouth and be sure to wear strips of bacon.

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>>30216116
to teach you how to read*

Here I am talking shit and didn't edit my sentence properly. Whoops!

>all these retards recommending spice spray
All your Tabasco-inna-spraycan is going to do is season you when it blows back into your stupid face. Man up, get a large caliber auto pistol (>9mm), and open carry it with ball ammo when you go in the woods. Shooting a gun is easier than fucking around with wind and spray cans when a bear is chasing you down. Hot lead will save your life, pepper sauce will not.

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>>30216133

>>30216143
>no argument
>just meme faces

>>30216116
If you can dial your autism back a few notches you'll find it's a joke. I know, I understand its hard being a retard but I forgive you.

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Bear please stop breaking my kayak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yqui9wo42IU

>>30216161
Lol, stupid liberal hippies.

>>30216154
>>30216160
>>no argument
>>If you can dial your autism back
>>it's a joke
Yes, that's why I posted a potato sailor laughing.

Settle down retards, your kind can laugh too.

>>30216094
I want you to do a science experiment. I want you to take son ballistic gel and put a quarter inch of leather and four to six inches of tough ass flank steak on top of it. Then, shoot it with a handgun and see if you can penetrate four or more inches into the gel. If you can, congratulations, you have a chance to mortally wound a bear, potentially killing it in the next two minutes.

The question is, will you live through those two minutes?

This of course is ignoring bones because bears dont have those, and I assume you're not aiming for the head because good luck with 3 inches of dense bones and that leather in the way.

>>30216200
Your arguing with two different people, m8

>>30216213
>two different people
Read carefully:
>>30216200
>retards
>s

>>30216208
And guess how many inches of ballistics gel mace is going through? Zero. Pepper spray has trouble stopping human attackers, trusting it with your life when up against a bear is suicidal. Bullets transfer kinetic energy into the flesh, destroying organs and tissue, .45 ball ammo into a bear will kill it.

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>all these bearposters
It's like you people want to be eaten. Guns stop bears, mace does not.

>>30216230
Maybe. After it kills you.

Have you seen a grizzly up close ever? If you punched a hole in its heart it would live for at least 30 seconds, and it takes far less than that to kill you.

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This is a bear that just crossed this river in the middle of the pic.

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>>30216257
And this is me with my 10mm minutes later, I had to get down there but I got there as fast as I could. Fuck bear spray.

>>30216250
>bear memewls
Shoot any mammal in the heart and it will pass out in ten seconds from a massive drop in blood pressure. Shoot a bear multiple times in the center of mass and it will drop from mortal wounds. Spray it with franks redhot and you'll just piss it off more. Guns are the only solution guaranteed to end the threat. Spray is a retarded security blanket sold to liberals who want to go innawoods without proper protection.

>>30216272
>>30216257
Finally, a guy with some common sense.
Also, that's some pretty scenery, where are you?

>>30216339
He's from Juneau.
>Guy in Alaska with 10mm, he's from Juneau.

someone linked me to this thread and I wanted to share a story with /k/

It's about a guy who was a friend of the family growing up, let's call him Wally.

Wally was an odd fellow, he lived out of town, about an hour and change out of Banff, at the end of an old logging road. He made money by running his own sawmill he built by hand and doing random handywork where he could, he was a pipe fitter by trade iirc until his 50's and he retired to his acreage.

In about 1997, I'd have been 8 around then i recall visiting his place with my dad, they'd shoot the shit and drink beers while i'd wander around the property feeding his wild turkeys(fuck them, more than once they'd encircle me and kick my ass), finding bugs in a nearby stream, usual kid alone in the woods stuff. This day we go to visit him and Wally's entire upper torso is bandaged to hell and back and he looks like total shit, verge of death stuff.

He tells us about how he was walking to his his mill which was about a 5 minute walk through a path from his house, or a slightly longer drive via a road Wally'd cut himself. So right there in the middle of the trail was a Black Bear that didn't bolt. So Wally draws out one of those center-fire pen shaped Bear Banger's. He'd swore by them for years that they were the best bear deterrent ever.

Turns out however Wally had been using them wrong, actually firing them AT the fucking things rather than up in the air. So on this fateful day, wally takes aim and pops the fucking thing off at this Bear, it sails past the bear who's now staring Wally down. Then it fucking explodes, sending this poor animal into a godawful panic and it runs straight at wally. I remember to this day wally laughing through the jolts of pain telling us the story: "that poor cocksucker was so scared he didn't even go around me, he climbed over me and ran off"

In the scuffle the bear actually tore off Wally's right nipple and left him with some pretty damn cool looking scars.

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you fags are just looking for yet another excuse to kill something and claim it was in self-defense

I bet y'all would take selfies with the corpse too

>>30216161
>when stupid city people go inna woods

>>30211143
When we got briefed wildlife safty by a federal wildlife management officer up in Elmendorf he explained it that mace is for bears and a gun is for moose. Apparently bear spray works faster and has a better track record with bears, but it doesn't work for shit on moose and the jury is still out on wether it works on wolves. A lot of people get it wrong about bear spray and how it works. It's not about their eyes it's about their noses.

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>>30216484
>I bet y'all would take selfies with the corpse too
I would

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>>30216486
>It's not about their eyes it's about their noses.
It's not about the make, it's about the caliber

>>30215620
>Guess the whole fish and wildlife service is run by bears, huh?

YES

the reason bear spray works is that it just irritates teh fuck out of them and their first reaction is to stop their precious and incredibly sensitive nose from being irritated. they do this by running away from the source of irritation and trying to clear their nose.

however if you shoot them then they immediately go into survival mode and will try to kill you to end the mortal threat to themselves, or will die trying to. and they can be hard to kill in that state.

we've had this thread a million times before. i am suprised that no one brought his up earlier.

>>30211143
quit taking the bait guys, it's asinine.

>>30216161
>conductor we have a problem
>conductor we have a problem
>conductor we have a problem
>conductor we have a problem
>conductor we have a problem

>>30216518
>10mm Auto
perfect for bear, moose, and man

>>30216208
>handgun
We're talking about the United FUCKING STATES here.

This is america, son. If I'm hiking in bear territory, I ain't carrying some piddly 9mm for D'Jaekwan Deterrent, I'm carrying a rifle chambered in at least .308, preferrably with more than 5 shots (M1 Garand because I'm a surpfag or some dinky AK variant) and I'm magdumping at the figure that is at least 2 feet wide.

I don't know about you, but shooting offhand I can get 3" groupings at 50m with lazy marksmanship discipline. I highly doubt that bear is going to get any closer than within 10 feet of me as I run away like a little bitch spraying .308 freedom behind me.

>>30216587
OP here, this isnt bait, I'm tired of people spreading the less lethal meme for bears, it's going to get someone killed.

>>30211143
For an average sized possibly a bit smaller black bear, would simply the noise of a gun be enough to ward it off? I'm not afraid to shoot one but I have scared one off with my jeep horn before.

>>30216486
The federal government isn't going to recommend people carry guns, of course they're going to recommend the spice spray.

>>30216542
A bear can't enter survival mode if it's dead.

>>30216230
So you are actually such an anti-intellectual shit you will ignore the facts that show bear spray is much more effective than a gun?

>>30217024
>scared one off with my jeep horn before
While you're in a massive steel box way bigger than the bear

>>30212353
Her arms look like skeletons. Having huge tits as a skinny girl must suck.

>>30217022
Don't you feel bad for deliberately misleading people in a way that could get them killed?

The facts are clear, its morally irresponsible to pretend otherwise.

>>30215031
37mm pepper nades when?

>>30216230
>Pepper spray has trouble stopping human attackers
Bear spray is not only significantly stronger than normal MACE, but bears are also significantly more sensitive to it.

>>30215381
YOU KEEP YOUR DICK MITTENS OFF THE FUCKING MAGAZINE

>>30217063
It didn't seem to matter much, he still got up on his hind legs. I've been told it's a noise thing as much as a size thing for bears.

>>30217024
>would simply the noise of a gun be enough to ward it off?

Maybe. If that doesn't work, are you prepared to shoot it?

>>30216975
So, up here in Yellowstone, these two guys were trying to poach some elk and got attacked by a bear. Both were carrying handguns and .308 rifles. One dude got attacked, and his friend shot the bear nine times center mass with a .308 before it stopped attacking his friend. And amazingly enough, the guy who got attacked lived with only one eye and his whole nose and all his face skin gone. And multiple broken bones.

Oh, and did I mention this was a black bear that attacked them?

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>>30216518
>>30217027
>>30216893
I also carried a Glock 20 with buffalo bore rounds. I was just conveying the input as it was briefed to me by a very experienced professional. That being said I think it's obveosly up to the hiker/hunters best discression.
http://www.outsideonline.com/1899301/shoot-or-spray-best-way-stop-charging-bear
https://www.hcn.org/articles/bear-spray-for-hunters-a-reality-check
http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/HTML/articles/2014/bearspray.htm#.V1mXEPkrKUk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA_DXeWTOG8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpB7jrJ7Zds

>>30215620
Thread

>>30218111
Nothing will help you if you're already within 10 feet of the fucking thing. Which is what I'm assuming happened, because you don't have a link.

A bear outside 10 ft, around 20ft is an "oh shit" but still acceptable distance, will be dead in seconds to a .308 semi.

As usual, situational awareness is more important than anything. Mace, rifles, even an item that kills anything it touches instantly is fucking useless if you don't pay attention to your surroundings.

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>all these bears posting in this thread
Honestly, until you can provide a source to rival and discredit >>30215620 this conversation is over. Everything else is just fuddlore.

>>30211822
DONT TRIGGER ME

RIP SKELE KING

>>30216484
This is probably true

But then I realize that bears are stupid fucking animals like 99% of the animal kingdom and you'd be a faggot to cry over one being shot.

>>30216009

>penetration would be more important for a bear, and 9mm edges out .40 S&W and .45 ACP in that regard.

Where the fuck does this meme come from?
9mm and .45 acp have virtually identical penetration.

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>>30216009
>Still think's there is a difference between conventional handgun cartridges

>>30211143
>you're in an empty room with a table on each side
>one side has a gun on it
>other side has pepper spray
>suddenly door opens and a hungry bear is coming at you
>you have time to go to one table
>which table do you go to

>>30211143
Magnum pistols, especially larger caliber ones, seem to do the trick pretty well. While I wouldn't recommend getting a Deagle just for that, a semi-auto .50 cal pistol would do a number on any bear.

>>30215620
Your second link is 404ing, but if it's the study that I'm recalling it is deeply flawed and should never have made it past peer review. The most glaring of its faults was that it includes in its firearms results a number of occasions where the person using firearms did not fire or waited to fire until after the attack began due to legal concerns as well as a number where the firearm wasn't in possession of the victim at the time of the attack.

>>30211783
Can we all just take a minute and appreciate how well designed that chair is

>>30212353
It's really upsetting that my current gf has no titties. I didn't think it would bother me at first but as the relationship has gone on its obvious that something as simple as no titties (if your a tits guy) can have lasting negative ramifications

>>30215322
this. have you niggers never seen a video of a deer being shot? it'll be a rifle shot through the heart and lungs and the deer still runs 200 m.

now, that hunter shot carefully and accurately. he used a powerful rifle.

you goons want to say that you can take a weaker pistol and incapacitate a stronger animal in less time?

/out/, and all the experts preach bear spray because it works better. the pain will hit the bear before the loss of blood does.

a mbr might work, but you might as well use the handgun on yourself

>>30215083
Still laughing. Girl has been watching too many Disney movies.
>please stop!

>>30215620
Two things I learned from this
1. Polar bears are bitches
2. Fish and Wildlife are run by bears who are racist against polar bears
Carry both and use the spray first.

>>30216245
The only thing that stops a bad bear with a gun is a good bear with a gun

>>30220421
You don't stop a charge by shooting the heart, you stop a charge by shooting the shoulder or spine.

Bears are dangerous game, you shoot them like you would dangerous game.

>>30217078
Yes, wich is why I would never recommend bear spray.

>>30218111
If the bear is already on you you're beyond help. The guy is lucky he lived, and that his friend had a gun instead of Tabasco.

>>30212353
>>30211177
She's so thick, man.

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>>30218827
>Your second link is 404ing
Try to type it without the final dot, idiot.

>>30211346
>grizzly bear shit
Did someone fuck up this sign?

>>30217061
No, I'm just not a retard and realize hot sauce isn't a good idea for bear defense.

>>30221105
The federal government is never going to recommend the average citizen use or carry a gun im any situation.

Guys, we all like guns here, but you're fucking retarded if you think you could reliably kill a charging bear with one.
Bears are tough motherfuckers with very delicate senses who will shrug off bullets but will back the fuck off if you assault their senses with something as strong as bear spray.

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>>30221165
Local government on the other hand...

>>30216161
>>30216161
My fucking sides
>why are you breaking my kyake
>please stop
>gosh darnit
>why are you here youre supposed to be sleeping
>BEAR PLEASE STOP THAT BEAR!!
>PLEASE STOP BREAKING MY THINGS ITS NOT EVEN FOOD
>hippe girl borderline crying
I fucking cant anymore i cant breathe

>>30221117
>the joke
>your head

>>30221407
Oh my god I'm fucking retarded

>>30217032
That is what they want you to think.

>>30219975
Just develope a foot fetish. It's better anyways

>>30221278
What really gets me, is it happens after she sprays the bear.

Like it's attacking the Kayak out of spite.

>>30216208
>he doesn't take a mare's leg .45-70 to bear country

>>30211177
Don't bears have those false eyelids (like dogs) for things like this?
I know dogs use them when swimming. Bears are basically bigger, smarter, deadlier dogs. It makes sense they would have them too.

>>30217096
If someone explains how to make a proper combustion activated irritant I will start manufacturing them right now

>>30221666
>combustion activated irritant
You mean like smoke? You should already know this Satan.

>>30221696
More than that. I mean like cripplingly painful.

>>30216044
>the guy that reaches out to pet it from inside the car and pisses it off

Only in what sounds like Russia.

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>>30216161
>its the end of September!
>why are you here!?
>you are supposed to be asleep!

my sides will never recover

>>30216161
im convinced that this has been overdubbed or something. Nobody is this ridiculous

>>30211318
That's what a real bear attack looks like though. Surprisingly calm in its violence, not like a Michael Bay set piece.

>>30216161
>"Come here"
Bear: Hell no, bitch! you just maced me.

>>30211143
Haf quiet a few encounters with bears and mountain lions. A gun is always the best option. Even the sound will send most animals running

>>30222222

>>30221052
Yes, the guy is very lucky to be alive. I see your ignoring the fact it was still mauling him after being shot multiple times. With a hunting rifle.

What dont you people understand about "bears are fucking big." They dont give a single fuck about getting shot because they're not people. They just hear a loud noise and feel a comparatively small wound to what their bodies are designed to survive. Pepper spray blinds them and makes their entire head feel like its burning. Even if they don't immediately egress their mauling game is no longer gonna be up to snuff.

>>30218111
>these two guys were trying to poach some elk

Pity the bear didn't finish them off, then.

>>30221179
I'd rather assault their senses.with hot lead.

>>30222920
Have fun being bear shit

>>30222602
I see you're too dumb to understand that the point of shooting a bear is not to deter it, but to kill it, so it can't continue whatever aggresive action it had the intention of committing against you.

>>30222935
I think you misunderstand, I'm NOT intending to use Tabasco sauce as a bear defense.

>>30215620
Did she get fucked by that bear?

>>30211143
That's what the bears want us to think.
Stay woke.

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>>30215620
>sample size of 84

>>30223024
Bear attacks aren't that common, senpai. Much less well-reported ones.

>>30218691
Ah, the rare antifudd meme.

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All of you are retarded. How is this even a discussion. Bring a gun with a caliber big enough to kill the fucking bear. Then, if a bear is attacking you, shoot the gaddamn bear and don't fucking miss. How is this even a discussion?

>>30223078
Or you do something that isn't retarded and doesn't increase your risk of dying by literally 50% AND doesn't create an angry, wounded bear that will tear through the countryside

>>30223091
Fuck that, just shoot the fucker until its dead.

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>>30211177
>>30212353

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>>30223078
Because the less lethal for bear meme has so taken ahold of the outdoors community thanks to hippyshit liberals who are scared of guns but still want to feel like they're protected when they go hiking. So they head down to bass pro shop and buy a can of pepper spray and claim it's the "BEST BEAR DETERRENT EVAR!!300 TIMES BETTER THAN SCARY GUNS!" be if anyone claims otherwise they may have to face the fact that their spicy security blanket isn't effective and that guns have a real world purpose.

>>30223099
BUT MUH DETTERANT SPRAY!!!!

>>30223099
Tell me, what caliber can reliably kill a bear and be carried easily innawoods?

>>30223091
Whether or not you're being an asshat or unaware or run into that "rare percentage" of bears that just want to eat you the bottom line is that if it ever happens, the bear is going to do everything it can to eliminate you. So fuck'em.

>>30223254
How should I know? I don't go hiking. But I know it exists.

>>30223267
Now, now, /k/, don't go around killing animals when you don't have to
You want /an/ to love you, right?

>>30223292
I would want to live, dude.

>>30223279
>carried easily

This is key, if you're not specifically out to hunt, no one is going to bother with the actual 'reliable' range of calibers. Bear spray is statistically effective and convenient to carry.

Handgun for people/big cats, spray for bears.

>>30223254
10mm

>>30223315
Show me statistics.

>>30223327
Spoiler: there are none.
Guns have been effective bear defense in North America for the better part of 200 years

>>30223327

>>30215620

>>30212300
Great, now go shoot yourself in the head and see if your still coherent enough to type all that bullshit.

>>30211177
>bear closes his eyes and just mauls your ass
Every weekend on Castro blvd amirite

>>30222938
But that's the thing you're not getting.

EVEN IF YOU SHOOT THE BEAR ENOUGH TO KILL IT, YOU WILL LIKELY DIE BEFORE IT DOES.

I'm not some hippie asswipe, I carry innawoods, but if a bear wants to kill me I know bear spray is more likely to keep me alive than any handgun or rifle. I dont care if the bear lives or dies, only that I live through the encounter, and spray makes that more likely.

And I've been at the range when they break out the rail bear, and I've seen plenty of confident shooters only manage to hit it once before dead time. Its a lot harder to miss with the spray.

>>30221061
That's a good thick!

>>30223254
45-70 marlin brush gun

>>30223091
>Or you do something that isn't retarded and doesn't increase your risk of dying by literally 50%
Actually read the fucking data points used in the studies. Bear spray uses consistently correlate with a lower threat threshold than firearm uses, whose instances add an artificial increase to the danger of using firearm to deter a bear attack because they include instances where the firearm was not deployed until after the bear had begun mauling a person.

tl;dr: Bear spray has such a high success rate because it is frequently deployed in instances that would be illegal to use a firearm in, and firearms are often deployed to late due to legal worries.

>>30223254
And dangerous game capable long arm can be easily carried over your soldier on a sling, larger revolver rounds such as the .454 Casull or the .500 S&W can be easily carried in holsters meant to carry large revolvers.
>But those guns won't be enough to remove bear
Africa removed bear before your forebears figured out how to wipe asses, those guns are proven to remove Africa.

>>30224060
>tl;dr: Bear spray has such a high success rate because it is frequently deployed in instances that would be illegal to use a firearm in, and firearms are often deployed to late due to legal worries.
tl;dr, the lower applicability threshold of bear spray is still an advantage for bear spray. Deterrence/defusing an encounter before it becomes dangerous is vastly preferable to attempting to stop an attack in progress, and unless the noise from a warning shot is effective, there isn't really a good way to do this with a firearm.

And unless my primary task involves a long gun or heavy-ass revolver, I'm not carrying it with me, just like I don't open carry an AR-15 with me when I go to the market, despite how much more effective it would be than my CCW. I'm not saying don't carry a firearm, but I'm not going to shape my life that heavily around such a low probability scenario when more convenient, similarly effective alternatives exist.

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>>30216460
I am literally crying right now.

>>30223348
But I thought guns weren't effective at killing or incapacitating large mammals?

>>30223254
.357

Didn't read the thread, but I'm a hunter and I endorse carrying bear spray over a gun for defense.

>Why?

I hunt black bear. I've shot several over the years. These are calm, easy shots which are placed carefully on bears that are unaware of me. My accuracy is good and I'm able to put a bullet into their vitals. Most often, they do not die right away. In fact, they are usually able to run pretty far before they die.

I believe that if a bear was already charging me, and I had to make a defensive shot, I would not be able to accurately hit it's vitals. And even if I did, the bullet would just act as a shot of adrenaline. I would guarantee a full-blown mauling by shooting a bear that may have just been bluff charging. Even if the bullet connects, the bear should have enough life in it to kill or severely maim me. Don't believe me? Google some bear hunting videos on youtube and decide for yourself.

That said, I am also a frequent back country camper. I have had bears come into my camp more than once, and on two occasions I have used spray on bears who did not fear humans. Those bears turned around and took off running FAST.

I think destroying their senses is a more effective deterrent than a shot of adrenaline, but that's just me.

Look I am tired of all the hypothetical arguing. We have the means to solve this debate. Lets use hard science and facts to answer this question. We need a good sample size, say 500 grizzly bears. These would of course have to be representative of the various ages, sizes and, goeographical extremes to account for outliers. As many volunteers would be needed as well. We surprise the bear and if a defensive charge takes place on the part of the bear, half will be given bear spray to use and half will be given an agreed upon bear caliber/gun combo. (i.e. glock 20, or a revolver in .44 mag or larger) Of course some volunteers may inevitably die. This is a bummer but we Americans have a long history of not letting this hold us back, especially is the test subjects are poor or not white. (google unethical human experimentation in the United States) We can do it.

>>30216542
>A bear will run away if it's in pain
>But apparently bears can tell what a gun is and will fight back if shot by one
What's the deal with these people? Do you guys really not think the pain from getting shot is as much as if not more of a deterrent than fucking pepper spray?

>>30218111
That's some pretty anecdotal evidence you have there, friendo :^)

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>people ITT would kill this beautiful critter just for being near them

who's the real animals here?

>>30225844
Neat, you hunt with a bolt action.

Now, imagine making 9 other shots, all in the same area, in roughly 2 seconds.

This is why I advocate carrying something in 308 or higher with a semi auto action that can hold more than 10 rounds. NOTHING will survive 10 308 rounds to the chest. Not for any longer than the time it takes for it to fall to the ground.

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>get out of my house bro

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>>30225844
>>30226057
I have a Winchester model 70 30.06, a MATEN (..308 with 20 round mags) and an Old Ithaca Model 37 that holds 8 shots of 12 gauge and slam fires and I live in Alaska and I use 10mm. But what do I know.

These were mine
>>30216257
>>30216272

>>30226121
>says he takes one shot and bear lives
>point out that 9 more shots would do a hell of a lot more
>lol no you guys I know my shit okay

I've said this once and I'll say it again. 10 shots of 308 will put down almost anything on this earth. If you're worried it won't., get a 458 socom upper and let a bear eat 10 shots of power equivalent to a 45-70.

>>30226060
welp. that genuinely scared me.

I didnt see the bear was just kinda chilling, it looked like he was charging.

jesus

>>30226146
Let me guess. You don't live in bear country and don't own any guns.

>>30226057
I just have a hard time imagining a scenario where I'd be toting around an easily accessible M14 all over the woods. I also think it's far easier to put out a large cloud of bear spray than it is to hit a charging animal in the heat of the moment.

But I'll concede that maybe you're a better operator than me. Personally, I'm not bad ass enough to go backpacking and hiking with a fullsize rifle. I'll also (shamefully) admit that I don't have a lot of experience / training making rapid, accurate shots under fear and stress.

Spray has worked the two times I've needed it. I even carry it on my belt when hunting, as a defensive precaution.

I like bears
They're adorable
I really want to go back in time and tell prehistoric humans to tame both bears AND wolves
I want a pet bear

>>30226230
>Spray has worked the two times I've needed it
Storytime?

Things beasts in the woords say thread?

I wouldn't worry about it.

>>30225939
Yep, other people are posting science data. All I know is I've bear sprayed a black bear, and been so close to Grizzly 399 and her cups I could see the color variation in her eyes. Luckily, I was in a boat with a 250 outboard on the back, so that encounter wasn't too worrying.

Bear cubs are fucking adorable, by the way.

>>30226057
Do you wear a helmet every time you drive your car too? Do you OC your AR15 everyday just in case you get attacked by multiple assailants? Better have this climbing rigging with you every time you ascend a flight of stairs, there's a non-zero chance that you could slip and fall.

I ain't carrying a 10lb rifle 40+km unless that rifle is the reason I'm on the trip, especially when I can carry a <2lb 10mm handgun and 1/2lb can of bear spray that has proven at least similarly effective.

>>30226238
Nothing too exciting, but sure.

>Kayak camping and fishing the coast near northern Vancouver Island
>Set up camp on remote wilderness beach
>Out trolling for most of the day, unsuccessful
>Return to camp, backpack and other large / heavy items have been disturbed
>Suspect curious bear
>Make fire, cook dinner, go to bed
>Uneventful
>Morning of day two
>Wake up to noise in camp
>Bear must have returned, looking for food
>Slowly remove myself from sleeping bag and peak out of tent
>Bear looking in my direction, no longer moving
>Grab spray and start yelling at it
>Bear realizes what I am, doesn't seem to care about me
>Resumes fucking around with some of the gear I had leaned up against a tree
>Yell at it some more
>It turn and starts to slowly approach tent
>I get scared because I feel trapped inside with no easy way out
>Stick arm as far out of tent door as I can, blast a cloud of spray out (it goes pretty far)
>Bear catches a small whiff of it and immediately fucks off in the other direction
>Didn't see him again

Second time, less eventful

>Backpacking and fishing some local mountain lakes
>Nobody else for miles
>Catch a nice pan trout in the early evening
>Gut it at beach, away from camp, to prepare for dinner
>Hear noise behind me
>Sniffing and snorting, shrubs rustling
>Small black bear appears
>He never got too close, but I was very nervous
>Covered in fish guts and the smell of that trout is likely what attracted him
>Didn't want to risk anything
>Yell at bear, pre-emptively spray the area between us
>Bear wasn't even that close to the cloud
>Ran out of there even faster than the first bear

I ended up going hiking down in the dark and home that night because I was alone and worried about the fish smell

Maybe I'm a pussy, but I'd do it the same way again. You aren't as tough as you think when you're alone in remote areas. I should also mentioned that in both of those scenarios, carrying a fucking semi-auto .308 would have been unrealistic.

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>>30211143
Those hippy fucks from /out/ can suck my dick, if a bear wants to attack me I'm going to rain hell down on that furry piece of shit.