Traffic Stop While Carrying

>>30203251

asset forfeiture. they can take all your shit, but you can get it back.

>>30203251
No not at all just keep repeating "Am I being detained?" and the cop will give up.

>>30203251
>My question is, am I legally obligated to hand over my handgun in a traffic stop?


depends on state law

even then cops can come up with bullshit lawful order excuses.

Best to just do it and make a complaint with his supervisor later if he was in the wrong rather than potentially being arrested and having to deal with that bag of fun and never getting back at him.

>>30203284
Sure, if you want to spend thousands in retaining a lawyer and taking the time to be in court proving that your property that they stole from you is not in fact part of the drug trade.

>>30203320

you are correct. doesn't stop them

>>30203251
This is why you actually pay attention at your CCW course nimrod. You'd have learned whether by your state's laws you have to volunteer that you're carrying to a cop, and whether you have to tell a cop you're carrying if asked (this is almost always yes unlike the first one).

Once you've told him that you can expect to hand over your gun for the stop.

>>30203251
you should ask him for his gun, see how he likes it

Asset forfeiture claims should be grounds to start shooting.

>oh we need your property
>*BANG*

Also forgot to mention, I live in Indiana

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Daily reminder that cops are pieces of shit and the only thing worse than them are the scum we rely on them to police. There's gotta be a better way.

>>30203398
Constitutional rights and small/local government oversight.

>>30203333
Not all states require a class to exercise a right.

>>30203320
>>30203251

also, the burden to protect yourself, rights and civil liberties is on you and your lawyer. law enforcement is just going to do what they do.

>>30203251
I'm assuming you are in Indiana because you said LTCH.
You had no duty to inform, you had no duty to turn over your gun & he had no probable cause once you showed him your LTCH.

You shouldn't be CCWing if you don't know your fucking state laws, or lack the initiative or ability to use google you goddamn tool

>>30203398
>There's gotta be a better way.

You mean the old way it was done.
http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm

>>30203251
>so I also offered him my LTCH just to be safe.

>offered

dipshit.

we arent your fucking friends. we're there to do a very specific job and go home safe at night and if we have to fuck you over to do that we will.

unless you are legally required to to offer us information then the less you offer the better.

It honestly makes our job easier.

You should have asked the cop to hand you his gun in exchange then.

>>30203343
>using lethal force to prevent property crime

yeah, you're an asshole and should reevaluate your values

>>30203637
>using the second amendment to prevent government corruption

>you are a big meanie!

That's nice.

>>30203296
This and pull out your cell phone and shove it in the cops face and yell "I KNO MAH RITES" over anything he tries to say.

>>30203251
yes an officer can legally disarm you at a traffic stop.

They can't keep your shit though.

>>30203653

>police = government
This meme needs to stop.
A cop's chain of command ends at the city mayor /council /whatever.
It's a great example of federalism.
Are you implying they're the corrupt ones?

>>30203487
>probable cause

and why would the cop need probable cause to order that someone involved in a traffic stop be disarmed for the duration of the traffic stop, mr internet lawyer?

>>30203672
>>30203672
Anyone that will defend or participate in carjacking the citizenry with a badge is corrupt.

Ohio here.

Required to inform officer. I've been pulled over maybe half a dozen times in the last 10 years I've been carrying (twice because I forgot to renew my tags and rest for speeding), every time, every single time I interrupt the officer or speak before he gets a chance.
>Hello Officer, I'm required to tell you that I'm carrying with permit.
The officer then asks me where the gun and I tell them. To date, not one has asked to see it or given 2 shits about me having it.

>>30203709
Ohio cops are laid back for the most part.

outside of cleveland

and parma

and highway patrol

Am I forgetting any?

>>30203709
do you really have to verbally declare? why dont you just hand your license over with your ccw plastic?

>>30203730
ive heard the opposite. small town police and highway patrol actively go out and get out of staters because they can confiscate they're license physically and make you follow them to some small town courthouse to pay a fine.


Not sure if true though. Sounds like bs about stealing your license.

>>30203456
Doesn't mean you shouldn't take one. You're an idiot if you aren't either taking a class or hitting the books, because you're asking to go to jail when you violate one or more laws that you thought you had a clue about. Even the basic CCW course really doesn't cut it with the drastic life-altering consequences of a bad (hell, even a good) shoot.

Basically this: >>30203519

>>30203698
You stupid fuck. They aren't taking your gun. They are temporarily disarming you to safely conduct a traffic stop. This is totally OK as per the supreme court.

They will give you back your shit as long as you aren't a dindu drug dealer or sovereign citizen nutjob.

>>30203653
>i changed the argument because my attitude is indefensible and think no one will call me on it.

yeah, no.

Taking a human life over a property crime is still not acceptable, especially where legal recourse exists, as it does in the US

You have the maturity of an angry teenager and I hope you're to young or poor to aquire weapons and that you stay that way until you wise up.

>>30203787
yeah they can take your license if you shouldn't be driving. IE drunk, crazy, or otherwise prohibited.

>But a Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) regulation authorizes police who have apprehended or arrested a driver they believe is unfit to operate a vehicle without endangering public safety due to his physical or mental condition to suspend the person's license on behalf of the DMV commissioner and forward it to the DMV within 24 hours with a statement and explanation of the offense or violation.

>>30203803
This is a different discussion than them asking for your gun temporarily.

>>30203804
>i changed the argument

>cops stealing citizens possessions and claiming asset forfeiture
>government employees stealing your property

>not government corruption

So if a nigger comes up to your window with a gun and asks for your wallet it's fine to shoot him, but if he has a badge it's fine and I am the madman for disagreeing with you?

>>30203787
>can confiscate they're license physically

I would like to see an actual written law proving that OH does this. it doesnt sound like any law ive ever heard of.

Im pretty sure if a state were doing this on a regular basis neighboring states would fuck them hard.

Im pretty sure PA wouldnt put up with that shit from OH

>>30203333
>ccw course

Also, checked

Florida copfag here.

Every time I'm on a traffic stop and someone offers me their ccw, I just tell them that as long as their gun stays where it's at, mine will stay where mine's at.

I've never had a problem with a gun owner on a stop, and don't anticipate any. I typically don't write gun owners, mostly because they're super polite and honest.

I always end the stop by reminding them to always stay safe and stay armed.

>>30203872
>PA wouldnt put up with that shit from OH
see
>>30203842

PA does not have much room to bitch if the cops are taking drunk drivers licenses away and forwarding it to the DMV

>>30203872
not OH, but an article about IL

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-03-28/opinion/ct-drivers-license-law-edit-0328-20140328_1_license-temporary-driver-photo-id

>>30203637
>Because the cop isn't threatening lethal force if you don't comply.

>>30203756
The states that I am required to notify. It does not clarify, to my understanding, at exactly what point you have failed to clarify. Because of this I notify immediately.
I know law enforcement and they told me it is correct to interrupt the officer to tell them should the officer be speaking not stop.

Take a look at what happened in the shit stain known as Canton:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zdLctr7Bo8

I live in Southern Ohio. It's awesome. From what I understand, Northern Ohio, Canton, Cleveland and the like are totally different.

>>30203918
No, he would detain him if he didnt surrender his weapon, if the guy draws his pistol in a threatening manner hes getting lit up like the POS he is

>>30203886
Good man.

I couldn't tell you how many times I've had absolutely bro cops when I shouldn't have. Coincidentally, I've had absolutely shit cops think they're fucking judge dredd over unwarranted stops.

>>30203851
>So if a nigger comes up to your window with a gun and asks for your wallet it's fine to shoot him, but if he has a badge it's fine and I am the madman for disagreeing with you?


those arent even remotely the same situation.

>armed robbery, a crime, everywhere

vs.

>disarmament during a traffic stop, an officer safety issue, considered acceptable by the supreme court.

so are you legit retarded?

>>30203934

>if you don't agree to our robbery we imprison you
>if you try to prevent this we will kill you

>the victim is the POS

fuck off bootlicker

>>30203957
>disarmament during a traffic stop, an officer safety issue, considered acceptable by the supreme court.
no see you are being retarded still, I have said multiple times we are having a discussion about asset forfeiture.

If you are too retarded to read the posts you are responding to or don't know what asset forfeiture is then fuck off.

>>30203934
>Detain.

So he's going to assault someone who doesn't surrender their property who is under no suspicion of committing a crime? I'm not liking your tone boy.

>>30203251
LE here let me shine some light on this situation, but note this is from my state's point of view, and may not apply to all other states.

In short, yes, you are required to do so. Traffic stops are one of the most dangerous things we can do because we have no idea who or what is in the car, so officer safety is the number one concern, it's the reason why at night time we put our spotlight in your mirrors so you can't see us, why we don't walk in between our car and yours, why we don't hold things in our gun hand, or why we may approach on the passengers side, etc. If there's a gun in the car I'm going to temporarily remove it for my safety because I have no idea who the person with the gun is or what their mental state is. There are bad people with concealed carry licenses too. What I do is if there's a gun in the car I will take the gun and unload it while I conduct my stop and when I'm finished I will place it in the trunk of their vehicle and then once I leave they can get their gun.

Now here's the reason why you are required to give it up on the stop. Since officer safety is the number one concern on a traffic stop, I can't continue my investigation into the crime that has occurred (the reason you were stopped.) if it's not safe to do so, which by you having a gun and me not knowing who you are, that's unsafe. Therefore by not temporarily letting me have the gun you're obstructing my investigation, and Obstruction of a peace officer's investigation is a misdemeanor in my state, which the person obstructing would then be arrested on, or issued an NTC if the officer sees it fit.

I'm open to any questions and conversations as long as it remains civil and doesn't turn into random name calling. I'm putting on a trip only for this thread to avoid confusion.

>>30203895
>PA does not have much room to bitch if the cops are taking drunk drivers licenses away and forwarding it to the DMV

>drunk drivers

>drunk

well, first off thats not how it works. You still have to be convicted of the crime before actually losing your operating privileges.

>>30203925
i just prefer to do it that way because i spaghetti too often.
>hi o-f-f-f-icer gun?
>GUN
>get peppered because im a sperg.

can't take the chance. My pockets are small.

>>30203986
did you take advantage of glocks blue label sales?

got a sbr patrol rifle or is your dept asshats about that?

>>30203986

people don't generally understand how fucked the traffic stop is for law enforcement, because it isn't communicated to the public

>>30203986
Why is your safety more important than mine?

>>30203986
I think I would rather keep my gun in my trunk and not run the risk of some fumbling, scared shitless krispy kreme shooting me as he unloads my glock.


>officer safety is our number one concern so lets pas loaded guns around because we trained our officers to fear the citizenry

So the little old man carrying his J frame needs the same treatment as the hooptie full of gangbangers?

>>30204013
I have used the blue label but I just carry the departments Glock 22 instead of my 17, if I have to use the gun and it's taken as evidence I don't want my own personal gun taken. We are allowed SBR's but I haven't built one, again I'm using my departments LE6920

>>30204031
Are you going to need to use your ccw while you're temporarily being stopped for a legal violation you committed? My safety is more important on a traffic stop because civilians don't have to pull over a sketchy car t 4 am with 5 drug dealers in it on their way to make a buy.
>>30204043
an old man can shoot you in the head just as easily s a gang banger.

>>30204043
well im sure officer discretion would be great but lawyers, officer cameras, and no shit did you do all the procedures checkbox list is the primary reason.

>>30204031
He's a cop, he has to be safe so he can keep you safe and everyone else safe you dolt

>>30203975
>I have said multiple times we are having a discussion about asset forfeiture.

no, YOU'RE having a conversation about what you think is asset forfeiture.

everyone else is looking at you like the kid sitting alone at the lunch table


>detain

somehow equals

>assault

buy a fucking dictionary.

>>30203986
Is this bait?

>bad people with CCW
They've been vetted and trained and are licensed to have it.

>remove it for safety and unload it
You handling my gun is more unsafe then me keeping in it's holster and if you damage it then we will have a problem.

>I will place it in the trunk of their vehicle
No you won't.

>It's obstruction
No it isn't.

I've been pulled over several states. It's always the same, "Hello officer. I am carrying with permit (with reciprocity in accordance to your laws) the gun is located x location."

Never once has any cop asked for my gun. If you damage my gun, best case scenario for you is your department will be replacing it.

If a cop orders me to put my hand on my gun, I'm not going to do that either. It's entrapment as reaching for my gun could easily be construed as a crime and as for my trunk, I'm not popping it.

>>30204060
Hey, thanks for being a cop

>>30204060
It's 2PM in the afternoon and I'm in the passenger seat and you have no suspicion of me committing any crimes because you've stopped the driver for say, speeding?

I could link videos of you people killing unarmed """civilians""" if you would like.

As much as you would like to consider yourself otherwise officer, you're a civilian as well.

Now explain to me, just how your safety is more important than mine? How your rights superseded mine? Because honestly, I just don't understand.

>>30204076
Bad people with bad intentions can still get a CCW, jsut because you've never been convicted of a felony and can pass a very minimum basic background check does not mean you're a hero with a ccw and a gun. It is obstructing, I'm sorry if you disagree but the literal state statute says you are wrong. And in disarming someone I would never have them hand me their gun, that's foolish. I would conduct a pat down for weapons and remove it myself. Again this is regarding the laws in my state, I don't know what your state laws are.

>>30204060
>an old man can shoot you in the head just as easily s a gang banger.

But is he really?

Where is the evidence showing that the general populace shoots police nearly as much as gangbangers?


There may be a one in a 10 million little old man that decides its time to fry some bacon but is it really worth letting a bunch of chucklefucks believe the general citizenry is at war with them and to have them handle their weapons while in fear for their life for statistical noise?
>>30204071
>YOU'RE having a conversation about what you think is asset forfeiture.
>>30203284
Actually there was at least one other person discussing asset forfeiture in the thread, then I replied and a bunch of bootlicking retards conflated it with cops holding guns during traffic stops like the sub 70 iq mongoloids they are.

>>30204067
>He's a cop, he has to be safe.

He's fucking retarded if he took a law enforcement job to be safe when they're constantly dropping dead in their forties and fifties from heart failure.

Let's not get into how frequently their wives cheat.

Also, cops aren't there to keep you safe. they're their to arrest and cite people. (which is fine, that's their necessary job)

>>30204097
Because we are not civilians, certain laws do not apply to us (i.e. seatbelts, speeding, etc all to help us do our job) If you're in the passenger seat then I have no legal reason to ID you and speak to you so you could just not tell me you have a gun and the stop would go on. The driver comitted the infraction so they're the only one I need to speak to. My rights don't supersede yours but we legally can take away rights (i.e. search warrants surpass your 4th amendment right, same applies to temporary disarms)

>>30204113
The thing is I don't know if he really is or not, and I have a family to go home to and a daughter who I'd like to see grow up, so I'm not going to take that chance.

>>30204097
You are a lot more likely to shoot the cop than for the cop to shoot you

Unless
>sir i am a ccw
>pls disarm for traffic stop
>AM I BEING DETAINS
>REEEEEEEE-*bang*

>>30204099
I'm guessing you live in a state I wouldn't visit anyway.

>>30204115
We didn't take the job because it's safe, but that doesn't mean I'm going to intentionally let it be dangerous, I'm going to do everything I can to stay safe. We're human just like you, we have a heart and family behind that badge too.

>>30204142
That's entirely up to you.

>>30204117
>and I have a family to go home to and a daughter who I'd like to see grow up, so I'm not going to take that chance.

As do I and I don't want a fat chucklefuck working for 30k a year to shoot me with my own gun because he gets a briefing every morning telling him I am as dangerous as gangmembers and that I need to be disarmed by his greasy ass that barely knows the front end of a firearm because of non existent shootings.

Maybe if you people are so afraid of the general public you should find another line of work.


>We didn't take the job because it's safe

Did you take it to harass people going about their business and make them actually fear for their lives when you play with their loaded weapons?


>but that doesn't mean I'm going to intentionally let it be dangerous

>I'm going to do everything I can to stay safe
I suggest a career change.

>>30204076
arguing with a cop about the law? where'd you get your law degree bud?

>>30204151

The citizens lives are worth more then yours, serve and protect bitch.

>>30204123
Ehh no, only time I would ever shoot a uniformed officer is after he's fired first.

>>30204117
>Because we are not civilians, certain laws do not apply to us (i.e. seatbelts, speeding, etc all to help us do our job) If you're in the passenger seat then I have no legal reason to ID you and speak to you so you could just not tell me you have a gun and the stop would go on. The driver comitted the infraction so they're the only one I need to speak to. My rights don't supersede yours but we legally can take away rights (i.e. search warrants surpass your 4th amendment right, same applies to temporary disarms)

Could I please get a link showing law enforcement exemptions from at least one of those laws?

>>30204166
Like I said, I am willing to have a conversation about this in a mature manner as long as it didn't turn to random name calling. You can think what you want but I'm done talking to you.

>>30204188
Did I hurt the big mans feefees?

maybe you should shoot me over it.

>>30204185
I will go out to my unit and grab my state statute book and take a picture for you, give me a moment please.

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>>30204031
He is the law

>>30204188

don't take the bait, this is summer shitposting

>>30204209
>anyone that does not lick boot is just baiting we all love you!
>please oppress me more!

cuck

>>30204199
not a cop but when the trump riots come 'd love to bag your spegy ass and put your head on my wall.

>>30204200
Thanks, also could you be a pal and tell>>30204169 where your law degree is from. Since he's an expert on law enforcement.

>>30203986
So as you mentioned every state is different. I have duty to inform, but not to forfeit my firearm during an interaction with an officer.

Now I haven't had a traffic violation since I was in my teens and have been carrying since 21 for over a decade, so I can't speak to any experiences with traffic officers.

However, the presumption (I understand it may not be your own, but rather your state's) that any individual officer is more important than any given individual they pull over for a traffic citation is reviling to me.

>Because we are not civilians
Guess what, if you are not subject to the Code of Military Justice you are civilian. Being Sworn doesn't change that.

>>30204225
won't you be busy sucking krispy kreme chode?

>>30204076
>>30204166
oh shit, we got some sovereign citizens here

>>30203251
if you've taken enough red pills you can do whatever you want

>>30204245
No, I just don't want government clowns touching my loaded firearms.

It's bad enough they give them their own, they don't need to be playing with mine.

>>30204260
>No, I just don't want government clowns touching my loaded firearms.

well then argue with the supreme court, not the officer acting in accordance with the law.

>>30204169
>Can't disagree with the cops, it's not allowed.
boot licker cuck. Cops are dumb, almost by definition. I know a lot of them, most are kind of douche bags, some are really cool. Almost all of them are kind of dumb.

>>30204151
>That's entirely up to you.
It's all up to me really. That shit wouldn't fly around here though. It's not even close to how it's done and there'd be so many letters and complaints and people calling the local news you don't even know.

>>30204260
This honestly is my only problem with it as well.

>>30204275
I'm not arguing with officers, right now I am arguing with spergs on the internet.

Until such a time that I live in a state in which I can tell them to fuck off and that they have no right to take it I will carry with an empty chamber while in a vehicle and maybe soft armor.

>>30203251
>My question is, am I legally obligated to hand over my handgun in a traffic stop?

I don't think there's any law about surrendering your guns to cops, but you have to obey officer commands, especially if they are related to the officer's safety. The penalty would probably be a misdemeanor or maybe a lesser charge, depending on your state - it's more of a slap-on charge, like obstruction, but if you want to keep your CFP, you need to avoid anything like that.

>>30203986

>What I do is if there's a gun in the car I will take the gun and unload it while I conduct my stop and when I'm finished I will place it in the trunk of their vehicle and then once I leave they can get their gun.
>I will place it in the trunk of their vehicle
>When I'm finished

So, just to be clear, at the end of traffic stops (where, per current federal law, any further detention beyond the time needed to conduct the business of a traffic stop requires articulated reasonable suspicion), you regularly give citizens the choice between receiving their property back in exchange for consenting to a search (by popping the trunk), or not receiving it back for your "muh safety" mantra? That sounds a whole lot like a situation where a reasonable person would not feel free to leave, and thus a situation where you'll need to articulate your (likely nonexistent) reasonable suspicion.

You're a civil rights lawsuit waiting to happen. Go talk to your PBA attorney, dipshit.

>>30203333
CCW course? Please. Shall not be infringed fucker.

Here we go
Call me an autist all you want but I was 19 and hated my city cops

>be me
>be 19 with 17 year old gf in passenger seat
>have gun in glove box
>state law says she is in care custody and control
>get pulled over for driving without headlights
well lit area and had issues with my light switch
>before cop exits vehicle place gun on dash and grab wallet for info
>was polite as all hell to the cop
>was polite to me
>takes my info back to squad car
>comes back with info about to let me go
>as he hands me my shit he notices gat piece on dash
>"uhhh im going to need you to step out of the vehicle I need to take your firearm."
>but you were just about to let me go?
>ITS FOR OFFICER SAFETY I NEED YOU TO GET OUT OF THE VEHICLE

Cont.

>>30204318
"officer commands," really?

like he has some kind of authority lmao

>>30204348
So an officer pulled you over and you decided that your best course of action was to handle your firearm?

You deserve whatever happened.

>>30204350
they literally do have authority to do those things. The same authority that grants you the right to carry (the federal government)

>>30204199
Dude shut the fuck up. You sound like a damned kid.

It's fine to disagree with copfag, but at this point you're purposefully being inflammatory and being an all around bitch.

Either get your act straight or get the fuck out. Seriously.

>>30204060
You are a civilian as well, don't try to compare yourself to a standing military. It makes you seem authoritarian

>>30204348
Cont.

>"You can use the charade of officer safety all you want but you were about to let me go and ive been nothing but cordial towards you."
>"we can do what we want when a firearm is involved"
>"ok, well I'm not going to touch it, my gf isnt going to, and you especially arent going to touch it."
>he ended up having me and my gf get out of the car and wrote me a citation for driving without headlights.

not mad at the citation for i deserved it but the only reason he wanted my gun is so he could run the number, see if it was stolen, then get a blowjob from his sergeant for being a "good cop"

>>30204385
Not an argument.

stay cucked bootlicking chode licker.

>>30204378

he never saw me touch the firearm and i didnt even look at it while i was talking to him. I was polite and courteous with him at all times.

>>30204379
sorry idiot i don't believe in god or government

i'll do what i want like a person, thanks

>>30204400
why did you get it out?

if you don't have duty to inform fuck em

>>30204405
ooo another sovereign citizen
you tell em

>>30204350
It just started pouring outside so I'm not going to my car to get my statue book, but the beautiful thing about the internet is that laws are also on there. Here is the statute requiring you to obey police.

http://law.justia.com/codes/new-mexico/2006/nmrc/jd_66-7-4-1859f.html

>>30204388
I'm sorry if it upsets you, but no, we aren't.

>>30204391
congrats, you played yourself

>surrendder gun for a brief period of time as in compliance with the law

or

>get a ticket


you are so so lucky he didn't bad you for impeding an investigation too.

>>30204392
Nice assumption faggot. Also Not an argument to you as well.

I'm not too particularly fond of cops myself, but you're being retarded on the internet on purpose and it's shitting up this thread. This is an opportunity for civil discourse and you purposefully choose to ignore that and spout your shitty opinions and insult anybody who may even remotely agree.

You lost the argument and now resort to calling everybody "cucked bootlicking chode lickers".

So tell me, who really doesn't have an argument here?

>>30204413
because i was a stupid 19 year old and didnt want to get in trouble for my gf having possession of it.

http://www.wrdw.com/home/headlines/Law-Cops-arent-required-to-wear-seat-belt-in-patrol-car-263180321.html

>>30204419
yeah nah mate... Show me the one that says specific laws do not apply to you.

I can honestly say copfag in this thread has given me far more contempt for your "average" police officer than I previously had.

>>30204419
>I'm sorry if it upsets you, but no, we aren't.

Millions of active service men and women disagree.

>>30204419
Yeah you're considered a fucking civilian too, don't kid yourself faggot

>Be a Georgia-fag
>No Duty Law in effect
>Feels good

I pity you non-Georgia guys. If only we can kick out the moderate conservacuck Deal, we can have even perfect gun laws.

>>30204430
>but you're being retarded on the internet on purpose

Where do you think we are retard?

>You lost the argument
Where? pretty sure I made my arguments then bacon boy cried and you bootlickers started shitposting

>>30203613
just another jackboot of big government

>>30204419
From the U.S. Department of Defense perspective, Chapter 18 of Title 10 United States Code refers to non-military law enforcement officers as civilians, since they are employees rather than enlisted personnel, and also in order to distinguish itself from military police.[2]

>>30204169
unc chapel hill

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>>30204482
/k/ isn't /b/. The average age and maturity here is on a different level than other boards. please grow up if you want to converse with us.

>>30204521

Tucker Max af.

>>30203659
kek'd

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>>30204528
>/k/ isn't /b/. The average age and maturity here is on a different level than other boards

>>30204521


and they didn't teach you that failure to comply with an officer's lawful commands relation to an investigation is illegal? get a refund

(don't even give me that BS that it's an unlawful command. Penn v Mimms nigger)

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A cop can shoot you and your kids in the head and get away with it, or at the least require a third party to build a very expensive case against them. The system does not actively enforce the law against itself unless it has to cut a piece off to save the whole.

You can argue rights and laws till you're blue in the face but ultimately might makes right and the only true authority in this world is violence. So, unless your own violence is greater than the sum of the government, you have no rights if they say so.

>>30204572
You know case law, you are smart, I wish more people read case law.

>>30204419
>I'm sorry if it upsets you, but no, we aren't.
Top kek, when you have a CAC card instead of a DEERS reader to scan mine while your ass stands at the gate, I'll stop calling you a civilian.

>>30204585
We do have cards that allow us on the surrounding military bases in our town, sooo.....

Reason I fucking hate cops ? Every one I have run into has been a fucking joke or has some god complex thinking they have the right to tell me what I can and can't do on my own property I even had 2 of the fuckers try to illegally search my barn for weed

>>30204596
So no actual statute exempting you from laws? Gotcha.

>>30204419
I appreciate the reply despite the inflammatory replys. I am not upset, just disappointed that you want to further distance yourself from the community you are involved in. It makes you seem authoritarian

>>30204598
>search my barn for weed
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/out-of-africa/n10451

>>30204584

Apparently not very well, considering that Mimms doesn't at all back what he's saying. Mimms held that an officer can order an individual out of a car for safety purposes (and, ostensibly, to make other such safety-related commands), even if that command results in the officer obtaining reasonable suspicion for a pat-down search. It has nothing to do with a right (or lack thereof) to ignore an unlawful command.

>>30204632
I told you, it is pouring outside, I'm not going to go get soaked just so I can say I told you so, I'm sorry if the petty argument upsets you that much.

>>30204596
.....so you have a visitor pass. Maybe if you keep it held next to your heart and then go talk to a recruiter you'll one day see it turn into a CAC and leave your civilian ways behind.

>>30204677

Respond to this >>30204517

>>30204713
Sheriff's power trumps federal power in the county, if the sheriff says LE aren't citizens then LE arent civilians.

>>30204634
Pls respond >>30204677

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>>30204730
>if the sheriff says LE aren't citizens then LE arent civilians

Okay.

You're trolling.

>>30204632
google it you dumb nigger. each state has an exemption for emergency vehicles responding to a call.

http://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.035

heres an example

>>30204730
ok you just went full fucking retard. Sheriffs power does not at all trump federal power. This is basic stuff. federal law> state law.

>>30204730

>Sheriff's power trumps federal power in the county, if the sheriff says LE aren't citizens then LE arent civilians.

I'm starting to think that whole "preventing people from becoming cops because their IQ is too high" thing isn't a myth after all.

>>30204596
Yes, that's to let you keep chasing someone who flees onto a military base in a pursuit. It doesn't make you anything other than a civilian, and sometimes the MPs just handle it themselves.

>such as when I was at Offutt for a TDY and we had a high-speed chase end permanently when an MP at the gate gave the criminal 3 doses of lead through the windshield

When can a cop order a person out of a vehicle for a simple traffic stop? The last three times I've been pulled over they have done that. Twice
while pouring rain. Next time I'm just gonna flip them off.

>>30204730
Yeah and with that one statement you've invalidated everything you've said to this point.

>>30204756
He is not wrong, the sheriff is the highest governmental authority in his county. Full stop.

That being said, the attitude displayed by >>30204730 is disgusting.

This thread went to shit and illustrates greatly what is wrong with each side. One side is the cop who needs to hold your carry piece like it's a cell phone in a high school class, and on the other are a bunch of folks who refuse to acknowledge that someone has the legal power to make them do stuff they don't want to.

There are bad cops, but there are even more good cops. Likewise, there are bad people with guns, but more good people with guns, I'm willing to bed a lot that those good guys with guns have a valid ccw.

Officer safety is import, I get it, but you agreed to a dangerous job and that doesn't give you a license to walk on people's rights. Not surprising given this is the same police community who thinks shooting unarmed people is fine, as long as they could have maybe had a gun hiding in their pants.

>>30203986
>Traffic stops are one of the most dangerous things
Then dont do traffic stops

>>30204788
yeah except he doesn't reign over federal government

Anybody else fell like cops should be like other emergency services? Like only leave the station when called. Then they'd actually have a reason to stop people and so their job instead of "muh quotas" and "safety".

>>30204788

Yeah, there's literally zero backing in the Constitution for that whole "Sheriff's the highest dude in the land" thing the 10th Amendment kids spout off. There's a reason that the "informative" websites are basically a bunch of strung together quotes from various state-level court cases.

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>>30204813
this guy was unarmed and got shot, is this not ok?

>>30204845
I don't know where they train cops, but I like the concept taught by Gunsite when I was there: Only shoot targets who present a credible, present, and continuous threat

>>30204783
they can do it at every single traffic stop. period.


see penn v mimms

>>30204117
>we are not civilians
Yes you are


>certain laws do not apply to us
Bullshit, id like to see the laws in your state that say you can speed indiscriminately or dont have to wear a seatbelt. Our laws say we have to conduct yourself with due regard for traffic safety, so speeding is generally not expressing that regard for other peoples safety

>>30203986
>I will place it in the trunk of their vehicle
Thats a real slick way to be able to see in people trunks without a warrant, but a person could refuse that

>>30204845
he reached behind his back and intentionally mimicked pulling a gun while advancing agressively towards the officer.

Do you want the officer to take a 5 second deep hard look and confirm it's a gun while he gets riddled with bullets?

>>30204845
That's fucking retarded. That was literally the perfect opportunity to use the fucking TAZER.

That is literally what it's for. Fuck, some cops are just too damn trigger happy.

>>30204899
Why does the other cop want to distance himself from the community he is a part of as a police officer?

>>30204813
>unarmed
Nothing triggers me more than this when it comes to the media and posts like yours. What does being armed or unarmed have to do with anything? Take Mike Brown for example, he was big enough to kill a man with his bear hands. If he's assaulting you does it matter if he's armed?
Then there's this fool >>30204845
Thousands of people get beat to death every year but if they're unarmed its' okay because "hurr real men use fists" or whatever asinine thing some idiot is spouting today.

>>30203251
As for this thread. The reality is that a cop handling a loaded firearm that doesn't belong to him is inherently more dangerous than leaving it a licensed owners holster and nobody touching it. As was previously pointed out, they just want to run the numbers and try to look for something to convict you of.
Unfortunately it's legal in most states and frankly the officer should have discretion to do so. They should also have to show prudence in their use of that discretion which they don't.
Lastly, legal =/= right, it never has and it never will.

>>30204151
> I'm going to do everything I can to stay safe

Including infringing on peoples rights.

This is why you should be shot

>>30204756
(3) The exemptions herein granted to an authorized emergency vehicle shall apply only when such vehicle is making use of visual signals meeting the requirements of RCW 46.37.190, except that: (a) An authorized emergency vehicle operated as a police vehicle need not be equipped with or display a red light visible from in front of the vehicle; (b) authorized emergency vehicles shall use audible signals when necessary to warn others of the emergency nature of the situation but in no case shall they be required to use audible signals while parked or standing.

So yeah, I'm guessing none of them read this part?

>>30204941

Because he's part of a generation of cops who view themselves as warriors rather than public servants doing an honorable thing, who view their job more as being a bad guy catcher rather than upholding the law, who emphasize compliance versus cooperation...

>>30204899
Stormin Norman's dad who was also a General was NJSP's first superintendent, which is why their uniforms are styled like sleek 1920 military uniforms (albeit a bit fascist)

>>30204893
That doesn't really answer my question. Who deems it "reasonable for the officers safety"?

>>30204926
Yes.

>>30204948
See>>30204927

>>30204941
because many cops dont understand that as a police officer your responsibility is to keep your community safe, and that you have been trusted with an extraordinary responsibility. The thin blue line isnt a line bewteen us (cops) and them (everyone else), its a line between the good people and bad people

And because lots of newer cops are OEF/OIF Vets, and vets make terrible soldiers.

>>30204986
Thk for the reply anon

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>>30204060
>because civilians

You are a civilian.

>My safety is more important on a traffic stop

LEOs are not in very much danger in comparison to a huge number of other, less well paid careers.

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>>30204097
>you're a civilian as well.

anyone charged with enforcing the authority of the government isnt a civilian

police are not civilians, stop being an idiot.

>>30204948
police get force + 1, use your goddamn ASP when someone is using close hand strikes on you since that's force + 1

or fall back a tier and tase them since they're shirtless

go be a dispatcher if you can't deal with a 100lbs combative kid

>>30203297
Gaurantee you his supervisor won't give two shits whether it's state law or not.
OP just let the cop hold your gun for a minute. The cop just wants to make sure you can't go apeshit and shoot him at any point you get pissed off. Shit happens. I can also gaurantee you the cop really isn't all that interested in keeping your gun. Next time try to be understanding and just comply.

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>>30205014
>and vets make terrible soldiers.

>>30205014
Right on, im in the mil now and can only think of the retards that got out and then became police because they were in the military

>>30204339
>retard civilians don't need instructions on how to follow the law/not compromise the safety of peace officers

CCW courses exist for a reason

>>30205002

Honest answer: the cop.

Despite dipshit's shitty attitude and surface-level understanding of constitutional law (because he's gone through a short class where he's taught selected court cases to justify his behavior, and equates those with the entire state of Fourth Amendment law), he is getting at an important point: Federal courts have shown very wide deference to police officers so long as they utter the magic words "officer safety."

>>30205037
Woops, make terrible cops!

>>30205019
>tfw roofer
>tfw don't run around demanding everyone walking by a jobsite hand over their firearms
>tfw I don't even use a harness


>b-but muh safety at traffic stops trumps your rights!

>>30205050
Ok. I'll just make sure. To keep records for when I sue. They are just angry cuz I got in a fight with a off duty officer after he attacked me. Dude got his ass beat by the bystanders.

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>>30203398

>>30205067
>tfw don't run around demanding everyone walking by a jobsite hand over their firearms

Not much of a roofer then are ya.

>Hand over the nailguns or I'll fucking shoot!

>>30204113
>Actually there was at least one other person discussing asset forfeiture in the thread, then I replied and a bunch of bootlicking retards conflated it with cops holding guns during traffic stops like the sub 70 iq mongoloids they are.

you're intentionally trying to divert the conversation away from the fact that you've been called out for being stupid.

you're a violent kid that wants to kill people for damaging property, doesnt know the difference between handing a gun over for the duration of a traffic stop and asset forfeiture, and can't tell the difference between detainment and assault, and doesnt know the definition of civilian.

read a book, nigger

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>>30203338

>>30204878
>Dindu advancing
>Dindu hiding his hands like he's going for something
>Pretends like he has a gun
>Gets shot
There is nothing wrong with this.

>>30204948
>big enough to kill a man with his bear hands
>bear hands

Someone photoshop mike brown with bear paws for hands please

>>30205026
>>30205013

If being unarmed means it's not okay to get shot, even though that's stupid. There is an underlying implication that being armed makes you fair game.
>"Oh, the cops shot him, well he had a gun holstered on his waist. Live by the sword; die by the sword."
What I'm saying isn't when it is or isn't okay to use lethal force just that being armed or not is not in and of itself in anyway meaningful.

>>30205114
Except you and I would never be held to such lenient of a standard if we shot someone.

>>30205119
I meant they were produced by natural growth.

>>30205093
>not holding down the safety and shooting nails across the roof at eachother

>"hey new kid go get me the shingle stretcher!"


>>30205110
you are assuming I am 5 different people

>you're intentionally trying to divert the conversation away from the fact that you've been called out for being stupid.

Actually I was pointing out that you were incorrect in your conflation


doesnt know the difference between handing a gun over for the duration of a traffic stop and asset forfeiture


I do and stated as much previously

>and can't tell the difference between detainment and assault, and doesnt know the definition of civilian.

other posters

>read a book, nigger
I am not the one that needs reading comprehension lessons.

>>30204927
No dumbass. That's not how tazers work. You have to be a certain distance away in order for the prongs to impact across a persons body into their thighs, stomach and chest. Otherwise it might not work and you're left reaching for you gun. Also, you always use a lethal weapon (your gun) to combat a lethal threat (knife).

If everyone did as you say we'd have a lot more dead cops.

>>30205013
>>30204927

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwyfYLg0HzE

>>30205162

This is why schools should never have banned fighting on playgrounds...

>>30205132
I see your logic but it's flawed. A police officer shooting because they have a hunch is the bad precedent we currently find ourselves in.

>>30205135
Because we're not sworn and trained police officers.

If you have stand your ground laws you would have a good chance of fighting any prosecution in court and being acquitted.

>>30204115
>Let's not get into how frequently their wives cheat.

probably less frequently than military wives cheat.

and ironically those military wives are constantly cheating with cops.

thanks for your "service"

>>30205135
Of course not. The Brady bunch would be all over us like a landwhale at the country kitchen buffet.

I find many police officers are the type that get a kick out of power rather than the "I want to serve the community because it's the right thing to do" type.

>>30204166
>Maybe if you people are so afraid of the general public you should find another line of work.

maybe if you're so afraid of a cop shooting you with your own gun then you shouldnt carry

>>30205222
I have implied 'stand your ground' laws in my state, but I'm also held to a 'reasonable person' standard, that of course goes to jury if there is any question about if my action were in line with what a reasonable person would do

>>30205213

It's a little more than a hunch.

If my words and actions demonstrate intent to do you harm, I'm close enough to put you in jeopardy, and then I make a movement towards my waistband, it's reasonable to assume that I could be trying to access a weapon.

>>30205250
Maybe people that are too retarded to use a firearm should not be allowed to take mine from me.

>>30205159
They should only be able to shoot when fired upon. A knife could easily be handled with a competent officer with a baton or tazer.

Holy shit, I'm Australian and I know your laws better. First I of all record the incident on your phone. You are protected by the constitution to not give up any information. You can deny a cop by citing the constitutional right to not self incriminate. When the cop gets uppity you mention that you are giving them what they ask for out of fear for your life and after that none of it can be used in in court as it was obtained through coercion.

>>30205261
Cop needs to back up then, he's the who's supposed to be in control of the situation, so when the situation goes south and it could have been avoided, it's on him

just please don't take the above out of context, I know there are plenty of folks eating cop bullets who deserve them

>>30205260

You would be held to a reasonableness analysis for your use of force regardless of whether or not stand your ground is present.

Self defense claims traditionally had the following elements:
- Innocence (you typically do not have the right if you are the primary aggressor or are engaged in illegal activity)
- Imminence/Jeopardy (shit's happening right now or will happen if you do not act)
- Intent (dude's demonstrated intent to cause death/great bodily harm)
- Opportunity (dude has the capability to do you death or serious bodily injury)
- Retreat (traditionally you had a duty to retreat before using force if you could do so with complete safety)

The imminence-intent-opportunity analysis is how you find reasonableness.

Stand Your Ground laws simply remove the retreat element from the self-defense claim. Some states also give you the opportunity to challenge a charge on self-defense grounds pre trial (Florida, for example), and some also give various civil suit immunities if your use of force was lawful.

>>30205135
You, as a civilian, would be perfectly justified in killing him. He was assaulting you and you had a reasonable fear that your life was in danger.

>>30205224
kek, I've totally been cucked by a cop too. I fucked his wife a couple years earlier... Then I went off to Afghanistan and he fucked my girlfriend while I was gone. Good times, just glad I'm not the one paying child support.

>>30204240
>However, the presumption (I understand it may not be your own, but rather your state's) that any individual officer is more important than any given individual they pull over for a traffic citation is reviling to me.


When you get pulled over, detained, or arrested, your safety, the officers safety, as well as anyone involved, is now the responsibility of the officer, legally.

So yes, the officer has the right to disarm you and anyone in your company that is involved in the stop for the duration of the stop

>>30205321
That was really informative, thank you.

I get no immunity, but I get reimbursed for defense costs if found innocent. I could probably afford it without breaking myself, but I'd rather avoid the bad situation and spend the money on a m1a.

>>30204240

>Guess what, if you are not subject to the Code of Military Justice you are civilian. Being Sworn doesn't change that.

guess what, you've swallowed so much military cum that you're to stupid to use the google.

>>30205302

The video plainly shows him backing up with his gun drawn as the decedent comes on screen with his hand in his waistband.

The movement to the back waistband and coming up with a finger gun? That furtive movement -- when combined with his proximity, his behavior prior to the movement, and (I would assume) his words -- would be enough to justify use of lethal force for a private citizen as well.

>>30205328
I would draw on him and retreat quickly, if followed I would probably shoot, but I know I I shouldn't get into a fight while carrying. I don't have the training and equipment that a cop has, but if I did I probably would just beat the ever living fuck out of him with my asp since I felt shooting him was heavy-handed.

>>30205349
Tell that to the cops that broke that black kids spine and still through him in the back of a wagon with no medical attention

>>30205349
But everything I've found has shown otherwise.

>>30205397
Threw*

>>30203251
>revealing that you're carrying a gun
There's your mistake. Unless the cop was going to search you, why would you let him know that you were carrying a gun?

Giving him a concealed carry permit as your ID could easily be interpreted as a not-so-subtle threat or at least a passive aggressive sort of thing. He just asked to see your driver's license so he could check if there were any warrants out for your arrest, and you handed him an "I'm carrying a gun" card.

>>30205385
It's an unfortunate situation, but the cop is the one who is responsible for his own actions. There was never any lethal threat present, so lethal force in response was unjustified. Should have never closed to that close of a distance with the kid.

>>30204348
what year was this?

because in most states if you have a firearm in the vehicle that is not locked and you dont have a CCW then you're commiting a crime

>>30205159
So ranged tazers wont do shit to someone 3 feet away?

>>30203338
I've read a transcript of a conversation between a cop and some Black Panthers where they did just that. It's pretty hilarious, I wish I saved it.

>>30205440
you can hold a taser to someone without a cartridge in it and just shock them like it's an old stun gun

>>30205434
>There was never any lethal threat present

copfag in the thread was a huge fag, but advancing towards an armed man with your hands in your waistband sounds like a lethal threat to me.

>>30205435
In most states you can ride around with a gun in car just fine. Vehicles are usually an extension of your home or property. I've had a loaded gun stuck between my seat and center console since 16. Been pulled over too, I throw it under the seat, just don't wanna get shot. Completely legal without any ccw. Louisiana btw.

>>30204392
excellent well though out retort, my fellow citizen.

surely that will convince him that his position is untenable, and to seek wisdom from a higher authority

>>30205434

In hindsight there wasn't an actual lethal threat. There was certainly a reasonable basis to perceive one, however.

He's not required to be 100% correct in hindsight. He is, however, required to be reasonable. That's the same standard you or I would be held to as a private citizen. I don't know what world you live in, but, human reaction time being what it is, I don't want to have to wait for the gun to end up pointed at me for it to become a lethal threat.

Couldn't possibly be a data-mining thread.

>>30205434
reaching into your waistband as though you're drawing a weapon is lethal threat. Same way you can commit armed robbery (bank note with 'I have a gun') without actually having a gun. today you learned!~

>officer safety

Police officer isn't even in the top 10 most dangerous jobs in the US.

http://time.com/4326676/dangerous-jobs-america/

I used to work construction. That places me at 12. I had more of a chance of dying than a police officer by 3 in 100,000. Did that give me extra rights or privileges to do things? Fuck no it didn't.

Unless you're an officer in an actual high fatality precinct, your job is safer than those construction workers you likely drive by every day.

>>30205459
Yeah, I'm sitting here judging the cop in hindsight, I get exceptional situations happen. But the buck has to stop somewhere, and it's not ever going to be with the drugged-out, shirtless, kid doing his war dance.

Cop should have never advanced to that close to the threat until he knew more about it.

>>30205488
Are you serious? like they're logging IPs of people who don't like the police and then sending the atf go go kill their dogs?


seek help, you're delusional.

>>30205509

>Police officer isn't even in the top 10 most dangerous jobs in the US.

Should be posted in every single LEO related thread. There job isn't that dangerous no matter how much bullshit they try to spew.

>>30204462
>Millions of active service men and women disagree.


ahahahahahahahahabahabahahahahaba

>>30203297

Pretty much this. Dispute a cops actions in a court, not on the street. Comply with orders and if you feel you were wronged, contact a lawyer for a civil suit.

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>>30205478
>and to seek wisdom from a higher authority

>>30204517
>US DoD

>real life

chose one

>>30205509
that is the dumbest fucking argument I have ever heard.

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>>30205518
Or maybe just logging, for now.
Your attention to detail and faithfulness has been noted.
Your profile has been earmarked. Good dog.

>>30205020
its weird, does the DOD or google regulate what constitutes a civilian in the united states?

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>>30205564

LEOs are significantly less likely to be killed fulfilling their jobs than other professions. Muh family and friends excuse is consistently bullshit.

>>30204117
>If you're in the passenger seat then I have no legal reason to ID you and speak to you

THIS!!!

Why is everyone overlooking the fact that the cop who pulled over the driver had no reason to ask OP (who was a passenger for ID)?

Don't talk to police when you don't have to. This is one of the legitimate situations to refuse to give ID to the police.

>>30205584
sweet that should offset the multiple felonies I'm committing at this very second.

>>30205611
As a roofer I have to say that roofer is not really a fair comparison though seeing as how 80%+ of roofers are inebriated through at least one controlled substance almost constantly

>the people getting drunk and high then carrying heavy things on steep roofs or working on the edge of tall buildings die more than cops

No shit

>>30205626
>making bald eagle stew over a fire fueled by babies while illegally manufacturing nfa items

>>30205632

I wouldn't be surprised if the substance abuse rates among police were at least somewhat similar to other blue collar American workers.

The only limiting factor would be the somewhat more strenuous qualification standards.

>>30205635
>bald eagle stew over a fire fueled by babies

This is actually legal.

Thanks feminism.

>>30204117
>Because we are not civilians, certain laws do not apply to us (i.e. seatbelts, speeding, etc all to help us do our job)


I respect officers and I do think many of them are fine people who rightfully protect and serve their communities. Nevertheless I believe this kind of thinking to be deplorable, yet common. You are not above the law. You are temporarily excepted from certain traffic laws when it is necessary for you to do your job, but that doesn't mean the laws dont apply to you at all other times. Yet I observe that many police officers believe they are. I have seen many officers completely disregard stop signs, stop lights, speed limits, and other traffic laws merely out of convenience.
Id like to remind you that the rest of the populace is not below you, and that your job is to protect and *serve* not playing around with guns and cars to catch bad guys and increase govt. revenue. Your authority doesnt come from the higher social status you believe yourself to have, the people are placing a great deal of trust in the police by giving them authority. The least you can do is treat them with respect and trust. Will it make your job slightly more dangerous? It may very well be, but if you can't handle a bit of danger to preserve the rights of the people, you do not deserve the authority to police them. There are plenty of other jobs you can do. You say you are concerned for your daughter. Please help her grow up in a community where the people do not see police as the enemy of the people.

>4th ammendment lost due to search warrants
No, the 4th specifically says "unreasonable " the second has no such clause.

>>30204585
the military (DoD) is subject to federal law, enforced by federal policing agencies, where the federal government have exclusive authority to enforce the law.

ie the DoD is subject to the same laws as everyone else, or they get their pp whacked by the DoJ.

even in foreign combat zones.

which is why the FBI investigates DoD crimes or crimes against the US by other countries

on fed property where the federal government does not have exclusive authority to enforce laws, the authority is either proprietary or concurrent, which means rhat responsibility for policing is shared by state and local agencies

tl;dr

the military can be and frequently is policed by non military agencies

>>30204632
i guess cops dont carry guns in NYC, or LA.

>>30203251
>My question is, am I legally obligated to hand over my handgun in a traffic stop?

Well did you?
Even if you said was a pretty cool story?
Much like do you really get out of your car during a traffic stop just because a cop tell you to get out of the car, and outside the vision of the patrol car's dash cam?
Ether way you still fucked up.

>>30203297
>depends on state law

Ergo, legality of exposure and how firearm is transported.

>>30205749

>FBI investigates DoD crimes

Hey bob you do that shit?

>uhh.... yeah?

Well can you keep it quieter next time? someone leaked

>oh sorry for the trouble, we'll just kill everyone next time, no witnesses

No worries bro, I got ya.

Fin.

>>30205766
Well no one has the firepower to stop them now do they?

>>30204419
Why don't you go ahead and dig up what SCOTUS said about Law Enforcement Officers who act outside the color of law while you're at it chief. Not every thing you utter is lawful and you know it.
I know a lot of LEOs, many are good friends and even they admit after a few drinks on poker night that they do what ever they want cause it's good fucking luck on the citizen when they try to get some justice after a cops shits in their mouth.

>>30204568
is true /k/omrade
why are you being the dick tonight

>>30205283
Yeah no. You're a moron. That will get you shot or stabbed. Try intelligently defending yourself once you've had a knife cut or stab you.

Congratulations on guaranteeing that the bad guy gets first shot btw.


It's like you want police officers to get killed or something.

>>30204833
actually, depending on the state, so long as the sheriff isnt in violation of the constitution, then yes, he can remove feds from his county for doing fed things

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>>30205297
Mate...no.

>>30205892
Good fucking luck with that. The fed will absolutely shit fury down the throat of an county that tries that.

Some sheriff thinks he's the one true law of the land? Try thinking that when the feds show up.

>>30205440
A lot of times not really.
>>30205458
Enjoy getting stabbed/beaten.
There are plenty of guys who can take a contact taser.

>>30204838
the us constitution delegates that power to the states, the STATE constitutions are normally where sheriffs derive their power

>>30205509
Apples to fucking oranges.

>>30203613
God you sound like a piece of shit.

Why did you become a cop?

>unless you are legally required to to offer us information then the less you offer the better.
>Please don't make me do my job... its annoying.

All cops are like this, arent they? If they weren't they'd be doing other work, wouldnt they?

>>30203672
>A cop's chain of command ends at the city mayor /council /whatever.

Do you really believe some mayors aren't in bed with higher up people? Oh no, that could never happen right?

>>30205925
Excellent rebuttal my friend. Statistics don't lie. You're more likely to die in 14 other professions as an American as you are as a LEO. Those are the facts.

>>30205477
> you can ride around in a car with a gun just fine

no, most states have laws against that unless you have a CCW OR the weapon is secured away from the occupants

>Vehicles are usually an extension of your home.

no, no thats totally wrong

>>30205588
uh, neither? the DoD isnt a regulatory agency.

but Ill trust google for definitions of words

>>30203886
Florida fag checking in. 407 here

>don't have a ccw """"""""""""""permit""""""""""
>don't act like a jackass trying to stir shit up
>don't tell cop you have a gun because it is irrelevant

There you go, you are now 100% unlikely to get a rookie cop excited and then executed on the side of the road on your way to work

>>30205905
its happened before

>>30205518
>Are you serious? like they're logging IPs of people who don't like the police and then sending the atf go go kill their dogs?
Just what do you think they are doing with the data center in Utah and those two floating Google data centers anon? That have been saving everything we send over digital networks..IE the internet ,since the Patriot act 2.0 was signed by George W, You think they;re saving that for shits and giggles/ I bet you think all those FEMA camps are for victims of floods and fires as well.

You stupid fuck.

>>30203986
There are cops with bad metal states that get to carry everyday. Trigger happy cops happen more often than trigger happy ccw's because we face the justice system for our crimes. You guys call your superior and claim you felt threatened, and emptied 3 mags into me. I feel more safe around non-cops open carrying. Most cops face little to no consequences for hurting people, but if a cop gets a paper cut when I hand over my registration, I get buttfucked in my cell during my life sentence for assaulting an officer. I appreciate being kept safe, but I appreciate being able to keep myself safe from you guys as well.

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>>30203986
>>30204060
>My safety is more important on a traffic stop because civilians don't have to pull over a sketchy car t 4 am with 5 drug dealers in it on their way to make a buy.

mate nobody told you or asked you or made you be a cop and decide to deal with scumbags all the time

>muh OHS is more important than you

its complete bullshit and guess what this is the number 1 reason why guns laws like in australia exist because cops bitch about their safety

so they walk around in body armour with side arms because they have to deal with some boong drinking some turps and tell him to move on from the petrol station while everyone else is completely defenseless from said coon pulling a screw driver on them at the train station

but lucky them cctv caught it on camera so while they bled out and died they were able to catch the guy the next day and put him in jail

hooray for justice and thank god for the brave police

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>>30204948

>>30203886
This has been my experience with cops.

>be polite
>don't lie
>admit if you did something obvious

7 stops in my life. 5 of them I was guilty as sin and should have gotten a ticket. Never got what is due because I was nice and didn't try to "outsmart" the officer.

>>30204060
being a cop isn't dangerous.

>>30203251
>>30203251


maybe I'm playing devils advocate but as a bloke who adopts the greyman approach in life why not just be polite, inform the officer calmly that you are CCing, if he asks for you piece then logic would dictate that he/ she simply wants to feel safer knowing your not a deranged psycho who will open fire which lets face it - has happened quite a bit in the past.

never had such a run in with coppers before but have been let off quite a few speeding tickets just by being calm and polite, hard to be a dick to John Citizen when hes being nice to you.

Besides, its only a goddamn pistol, copper isnt asking for half your blood - pistols can be replaced, the poes can make your life very annoying if you choose the hard road approach even if you've done nothing at all

>>30204185
>Ehh no, only time I would ever shoot a uniformed officer is after he's fired first.
You are the reason CCWers get there fucking guns taken. You are the mental nut jobs that make cops feel the need to take them in the first place.

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>>30206213
>the poes can make your life very annoying if you choose the hard road approach even if you've done nothing at all

allow moderate muslims in to your country otherwise they will bomb you

while your at when a cop pulls you over remember to pull your pants down, touch your toes and lift your sack so they can check your not concealing a hidden weapon in your ass hole or drugs

what i'm trying to say is where do you draw the line in the sand?

>>30206213
>Besides, its only a goddamn pistol, copper isnt asking for half your blood

Besides, it's only half your blood, you can replace that anyway.

>>30204517
>US DoD
>Rules and definitions applying to the real world
>Civilian: A person not in the military, police, or firefighting force - Merriam Webster

>>30203297
This and demand a property receipt

>>30203372
Indiana has no duty to inform, meaning you are not obligated to tell a cop you're carrying.

Once you volunteer that information, the officer may well ask you to relinquish the firearm. Theoretically for the duration of the stop.

If I were you, I'd have offered to unload my CCW or, if the officer was insistent, demand a written receipt (make, model, serial, officer badge number, time, date, signed by myself and the officer).

>>30205019
This graph pisses me off. Not the data, but the way it gets used. To downplay the risk us public servants take. I am a firefighter and see this pic all the time. And I routinely am in more dangerous situations than the average person. I have had fellow crew members get held at gun point, shot at, assaulted, etc. How many construction workers know someone who has had to face those risks? If you run a saw, or heavy machinery right, there will be no be no deaths or injuries. The thing that separates what we do to those other careers, is in the situations fire and LEO are put in, we have no control over the outcome a lot of the time. We are playing the lottery each time we go on a call. If we do things right, and with our training guiding our actions, most of the time we will go home. Going up on a roof is dangerous, farming is dangerous, etc. etc. Private employers are more likely to put employees in a dangerous situation than a government entity. LODD are more heavily investigated than normal workplace deaths and often lead to much more scrutiny, so emphasis on responder safety being the priority is huge. We don't do the most dangerous job, but intentionally put our asses on the line in incredibly dangerous situations to save others. I can say would feel a lot safer farming or building shit than standing on a burning roof with smoke blocking my view cutting a hole in the roof or busting down the door to some drug dealers house. A lot of jobs are risky,but don't try to downplay what we do... and FYI, many of those listed pay more than LEO positions.

>>30205588
The DoD doesn't regulate shit outside of the DoD

>>30204188
You faggots really are sensitive little bitches when you aren't rolling around with your buddies ruining this country. Do everyone a favor and eat a round from your "service" gun tomorrow, you huge fucking faggot.

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>>30206398

you sound like a fagget lol muh muh i'm in danger

did the graph say near misses or injury incidents like you described? no fagget it said FATALITIES

now don't get me wrong you are in a dangerous job but the stats don't lie

and like others have said about cops the same applies to you

nobody is asking you to do a dangerous job, nobody is forcing you to do it

i'm glad people like you do it and i'm thankful for it

but don't act like your some special snow flake walking a tight rope between the twin towers every day

when your actually playing xbox most of the time playing pranks on your work mates and spending time in strong room for the next firemans catalogue

>>30206471
You don't know what my workday includes so fuck off with that lame bs. I know my job isn't the most dangerous job, but people like you only post shit to downplay the risk and make officers seem like they don't take risks at all.

>>30206398

>tl;dr I am upset that statistics disagree with my anecdotal experiences

>>30206503
>Ignores the entire post
Go read what the roofer said. My friend is a roofer and routinely works while intoxicated. I'm not mad at the stats. I'm mad at the context they are used. Especially when 99% of the time, the people using them don't even work in ANY of those jobs on that list. Fucking pansies.

>>30206503
>Hurr your jerb isnt dangerous *said the fucking IT worker*

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>>30206502
lol i'm mates with a fucking fireman you idiot

sure i don't know your exact work day but i'm sure it mirrors what most fireman go through

actually enlighten us what exactly is your typical work day so i can get a better picture of how super dangerous it is

>Especially when 99% of the time, the people using them don't even work in ANY of those jobs on that list. Fucking pansies.

but that's what it comes down to isn't you think your more hardcore than other cunts and you like to beat your chest about it

ever heard of the phrase

>climb a mountain, tell no-one

real men don't talk about how tough they are, they just are tough

>>30204583

The fact that no one replied to this is proof it's the truth.

>>30204596
I call bullshit on this one.

>>30204813
Fuck this shitty middle position conciliatory stance crap. At least everyone else in the thread picked a side.

>>30206745
Can you imagine cops trembling as they have their measly roadblock at the front of the military base?

makes me chuckle they'd be shitting fucking bricks

>then they hear the abrams engine fire up

>>30206760
this you have to draw a fucking line in the sand somewhere and i'd rather that line be much further away from me and closer to some cop than closer to me and further away from the cop

>>30203637
You wouldn't shoot someone breaking into your house?

>>30203251
>My question is, am I legally obligated to hand over my handgun in a traffic stop?
No, but they'll just Rodney King your ass if you don't comply.

Just shoot the fucker and be done with it.

>>30204813
Unless the person is being placed in custody they have the right to not be disarmed. I will state that again: They have the right to resist disarmament. If some insecure officer believes they need to disarm a citizen to proceed with whatever fuckup they did, they deserve all 124gr.

>>30206818
note: Rodney King was a crazed out crack head who got what was coming to him. This is a euphemism.

>>30206836

You are wrong, it all depends on state law.

Unless you are a sovereign type who gets picky and choosy about what laws you will follow, then no amount of reasoning will get through to you.

I do, however, think you lack the gumption to actually do what you are proscribeing others to do, for the simple fact that you are not in jail yet. I could be wrong.

>>30206866
>it all depends on state law.
Fucking this

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>>30206866
MY DRIVERS LICENSE DOESN'T HAVE CAPITAL LETTERS

I AM A SOVEREIGN CITIZEN!!!!!!!!!

>>30203251

1) The police are generally allowed to ask whether there are any weapons or loaded guns in a vehicle during a traffic stop, for the purpose of establishing the officer's safety. This is from SCOTUS and applies in every state.

2) Police are generally allowed to temporarily take possession of your firearms during a traffic stop. As before, this is for the purpose of establishing the officer's safety. Some states specifically allow officers to do this in their laws, but every state has legal language that allows officers to take reasonable steps to ensure their safety during a traffic stop.

I've read that this is done less now, and some departments have taken the official view that a holstered weapon is a safe weapon, but it depends on the officer's discretion.

3) Some states require that you immediately identify to an officer that you're carrying if you're a CCW holder.

4) If you're not a CCW holder, you may or may not be required to provide ID to an officer as a passenger in a traffic stop. Some courts have ruled that an officer requires a reasonable suspicion of some violation before demanding ID. Others have upheld the ability for police to require ID of all passengers in a vehicle for the purposes of recording witnesses to the traffic violation.

All states allow officers to ask politely for ID, even if there's no legal force behind the request. It's up to you in this situation to ask whether you're legally obligated to provide ID.

Note that when you're a passenger a valid identification might be as little as stating your name and a valid home address, rather than showing a driver's license.

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>>30203637
>using lethal force to prevent property crime
>yeah, you're an asshole and should reevaluate your values

Simply put, my stuff is more valuable to me than the life of someone trying to steal it plus a magazine of ammunition. When they chose to steal my stuff, they also chose to take the chance I was someone who thought this way and would act upon it.

>>30203251
You're an idiot. Know the applicable laws in your jurisdiction. And let the cop hold your gun for a minute. He doesn't know if you're a nice guy or an OP.

Traffic stop story:
>pulled over at night
>3-4 rifles in the back seat
>no gun cases, just laying there
>old fart cop
>scans car with flashlight, asks for DL and proof of insurance
>walks off
>comes back in a couple minutes and tells me my license plate light is out
>asks WTF the rifle with the bigass knob on the back of the bolt is
>sporterized Arisaka
>let him fingerfuck it for a minute
>asks me why I shoot a .30-06 (barrel is stamped) without a recoil pad
>explain it had the pad when I got it, but that made it too long, so I took it off and put on the metal plate
>hands rifle back
>complements the wood
>says something like "have a good one"

Rural county deputy, ladies and gents.

>old potato camera pic related

>>30204596
Bruh you're a civilian. Any non-military or veteran is a civilian.
You're a civilian of authority, but still a civilian

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>>30204099
>It is obstructing, I'm sorry if you disagree but the literal state statute says you are wrong.
Quote the statute. Pic related.

>>30206924
>Simply put, my stuff is more valuable to me than the life of someone trying to steal it plus a magazine of ammunition. When they chose to steal my stuff, they also chose to take the chance I was someone who thought this way and would act upon it.

rekt

>b-but human life is so precious

>>30204845
This is textbook.
>nigglet approaches defensive officer in threatening manner
>nigglet mimics pulling a gun and pointing it at offcer
>fast movement
>aggressive behavior

Gonna light that ignorant fucker up. He knew he was going to get shot. The officer had no other choice unless he wanted to die. Don't fall for the black lives matter or media's bulshit.

>>30206760
anything but my friend, I think both sides here should make like a gorilla and get shot in the head

then we can go back to being a civil society with Andy Griffith style cops

>tfw don't even have to worry about this because in IN you have no duty to inform that you are carrying

>>30204528
/k/ isn't /out/.

>>30203251
Or just keep your mouth shut and don't tell him about the gun.

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>>30205297

>>30207123
Shit can get real froggy if he feels like something is not right (lying) and terry searches that person.

>>30206893
I still think they're funny but part of me really does feel bad for them since they're so damn stupid they really believe the shit they spew. Like 15 minutes with a high school civics teacher in a quiet room could straighten all this out before it becomes an embarrassing youtube video.

>>30205297
best post of the thread

>>30203637
Doing that to an officer who's just doing their job is a bit too much perhaps, but

>lethal force for property crime
>"too much"

No, muggers and other scum deserve to go just on a moral level, as well as societal. They're of no benefit to anyone, just harm, there's really no reason not to eliminate them.

You kill insects because they annoy you, but those insects are more innocent than people who commit property crime. I literally have more sympathy for a cockroach.

>>30205297
i'm australian hahahhaha and you really think american cops know the constitution? what are you retarded

your gunna get one of these gunned down by not showing some cop is ID and saying

>AM I BEING DETAINED

and lets say the cop doesn't arrest you for resisting his commands

you won't be able to afford the lawyer to show the cop didn't follow due process

>>30207144
they crack me up but yeah i have a soft spot for them

most of them are just bums that get caught living off the land without paying permits

it sort of pisses me off just leave them alone one fucking bum fishing in the river isn't worth fining and when he cant pay the fine taking him to trial and then when he is found guilty putting him jail

like the cost benefit doesn't make sense

how much does one fish cost compared to lawyers, judges, police, incarceration officers, food, prison utilities like power etc...

just let the cunt catch a fish and eat and leave him be

but if you want the /pol/ tier answer they don't want you living off the land and being off grid in a way if you cant pay for you food they want you bread lines or dumpster diving they don't want you to be in anyway free and independent of the government

thats why they come down so hard on these people

>>30204379
You know better than to imply the fed grants natural rights

>>30205513
Wtf are you talking about the officer was backing up trying to maintain a safe distance. The officer did everything right. Anyone that advances towards a raised firearm is asking to be shot, and then this jumpy punk kid that's up to no good in the first place makes the officer think he's attacking him with lethal force. Get over your hatred of the man and see that this was all some bullshit that got blown out of proportion by a bunch of niggers and cop haters. Stuff like this is so stupid

>>30207186
I feel your post is so grossly biased that I'm doing you a favor by throwing you a pity reply. So here you are.

>>30207224
Im not him, how the hell is he biased?

The cop was not advanceing on the guy, the guy was advanceing on the cop, and aggressively at that. He then, very quickly, made a motion of pulling out a gun.

I can only assume the cop was telling him to get on the ground the entire time.

The buck stops with the kid who was asking for every bullet.

>GAWD ITS [insert year here]. WHY CANT WE THREATEN POLICE LIVES AND THEN MOTION PULLING A GUN! GAWD.

>>30206285
Different dictionaries give different results, but ultimately the DoD considers LEO's to be civilians.
Somewhere along the way cops didn't want to be considered civilians because they got all high and mighty but unless martial law is established, civilian denotes a non-military personnel

>>30207257
You're white knighting for another anon? I have less respect for you than anyone else in this thread. Thank god its dead

>>30207284
>>30207284

>How DARE more than one person disagree with me!
Oh noooo, a irrelevant fuccboi lost respect for me, whatever will i dooooo.

I could care less what trival shit goes though your ignorant head.

But go ahead, regale us with your feels. Cry moar, bitch.

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>>30203251
Damn that sucks, cops where I live are chill as fuck.
>Get pulled over
>Cop asks for registration and insurance
>Open glove box
>Hi-point is shitting on top of the insurance and registration
>Just lift the hi-point up and pull the stuff out
>Hand it to the cop
>He walks back to his car and than comes back telling me I'm free to go
>Didn't even mention anything about my hi-point

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>>30204419
>I'm sorry if it upsets you, but no, we aren't.

>>30204730
>Sheriff's power trumps federal power

>>30207047
>>>30206760
> make like a gorilla and get shot in the head

Fucking kek.