Lets Talk Body Armor

>>29932184
>Which to you prefer, hard or soft, ceramic or steel plates?
If you have to wear it for an extended period of time, soft, especially if you don't want it to be obvious. If you actually plan on getting shot at and don't care about everyone seeing you armored, then go with hard.

>>29932184
>inb4 people try to shit on ar500
level III+ is fine, but if you want to spend twice as much for less you could get ceramics

>buh buh muh weight
>buh buh a 22-250 hurrr fuds love it hurrr

>>29932642
It's more about the spalling, which will fuck your shit up. If you're going to spend the $, get a set of ceramic level IV standalones. As you mentioned, hunting cartridges will also go through those.

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Hijacking this thread since it's a stupid question.

Is there anything that doesn't weight a ton, which would make it wearable for a mission at leas and can handle a 408 CheyTac or a 338 Lapua?

I'm not talking about ceramic vs steel here, just a question about if there's wearable armor that is used somewhere in the military that can handle rounds like these even if it cost a couple of fractured bones on the operator.

Doesn't steel stop more rounds?

>>29932728
That's a fine looking nigger. Yours? What's its banana intake a day?

>>29932728
I thought there was a ceramic wearable plate that could stop even a 50bmg (12,000 ft lb), but I think the kinetic energy would probably kill the person

>>29932745
Ceramics can stop a lot more repeated rounds than people give them credit for. Steel might be able to, but at that point (12+ rounds), you've probably been shot elsewhere and are fucked.

>>29932787
2 shots on a ceramic plate in the same spot and it's done.

>>29932728
the plates i got on deployment they told us could stop 3-4 5.56 rounds or 1-3 7.62 rounds. after that the plate was pretty much broken up and anything after that might go through. not sure about bigger rounds though

>>29932673
>As you mentioned, hunting cartridges will also go through those.
I mean, outside of being in a tank, which also invites an array of things to fuck you up, it's all compromise and you have to know where the plates end and where your own skills and training take over.

>>29932184
>First off, I don't know shit about body armor.
Git lerned
>What do you guys own?
land-CIRAS with ESAPI's and Point Blank IIIA soft armor
>Which to you prefer, hard or soft, ceramic or steel plates?
If I can afford the weight, both hard and soft. Ceramic or nothing.
>Do any of you keep a plate carrier or a vest in the trunk or even on your person?
Nope. Way I see it is if I have time to get into the trunk of my car I had more than enough time to get in the car, start it, and drive away.

And one more:
>have you ever used your armor for more than dressup/dicking about innawoods, or as issued kit in a uniformed military?
Yes. I was working a gas station outside Ft. Bragg. Whole neighborhood got flattened by tornadoes, and since it was a 24/7 gas station we didn't have locks on the doors and looting was a big issue. Boss paid me an extra $10/hr on top of my regular wages to sit, in full armor with my AR, inside the store directly in front of the glass door, and "deter" looters. Relatively high likelihood of getting shot at, but the only thing that happened is I had to buttstroke a very persistent drunkard.

>>29932787
>but at that point (12+ rounds), you've probably been shot elsewhere and are fucked.

if you get into a situation where they're just magdumping into you, ceramic or steel, you fucked up big time for you to even be in that situation.

>>29932642
For $20 more you can have AP protection of a ceramic for the same weight penalty and it will actually fit in your carrier. Alternatively you can have lvl 3 or 3+ that weigh only a couple pounds. Keep an eye out for deals and you can get ceramic or polyethylene for as cheap or cheaper than steel. I got my lvl 4 ICW polyethylene for $70/pc on a sale.
>>29932184
I have an LBT 6094A that I have the polyethylene plates mentioned above in. I also have a Point Blank 3a vest I wear for work because having anything with webbing on it in a color that's not black (despite it being 115°F in the summer) looks too paramilitary and we can't have idiots getting scared.

>>29932904
>have you ever used your armor
One time the power lines got knocked over by a car crash and me, the manager and 2 other guys spent the night guarding our facility (armored car garage and vault) with plate carriers and ARs all night while they put a new power pole in. That was a fun night.

>>29932642

if you're american its wise to get level 4. in a SHTF scenario a good number of people who could potentially be shooting at you will be doing so with hunting rifles.

>>29932184
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr6h44Pu4sM

lol only 9mm

>>29932853

two shots in the same place on steel plates and you'll have enough shrapnel in your face to be "done"

>>29932184
I own 3A ballistic chest protection and a 550 Ar steel plates.
thats all. soft is most comfortable. the heavy shit start to ache the lower back quicker,
also, never seem to need either. just wanted to own, because i can

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Why are AR500 people mostly retarded? I feel like most of the Ceramic hate is poverty induced. But anyone who thinks steel is better than cermic has a serious mental disability. The only straw you can grab at is that steel can take more hits then cermic. Granted ceramic will take several shots before its actual integrity is compromised. Even more to actually penetrate. You will never get hit 5-20 times in the same spot, the only benefit steel provides is stupid.

TLDR Ceramic is better in every-way, if you have the money there's no point to invest in something that is more inferior.

>>29932184
Lvl II soft with an extra pad in the front, like 5 by 6. It's not stab proof though and that is what i'm worried about.

I own a 6b45 with American ceramics and soon to be a slick r-karbid carrier

I personally prefer soft in conjunction with ceramic. When I get another set of plates I'll keep a pair in my car.
>>29932184
ARMORWEAR HAD MULTICURVE SAPIS ON SALE

Blows steelfags out of the water, 120 dollars a plate for NIJ IV
>>29932642
3+ is pretty awesome even if I prefer ceramic

Does anyone know why ceramics have a best by date? I've heard sverything from microfractures to moisture weakening it but it all seems rather silly if that's what would take down something meant to stop bullets. Kevlar I undrstand because being a polymer it would be bound to degreation overtime

>>29933854
>all of the material's defensive capability is dependent on dissipating the bullet's KE through creation of fractures
>microfractures and moisture weakening seems silly

I have a iiia vest I wear under my suit when its time to collect rent.

I like it. Its comfortable, not too obvious when I wear a tie. Not incredibly expensive.

>>29933868
Why not just make a water impermiable coating like aluminum coated mylar then? This seems like an issue that wouldn't be hard to fix.

>>29932787
Videos online show two level 4 plates back to back being penetrated by a single .50bmg. That said level 4 stands up to commercial .338 lupa although I have heard there are special AP military rounds that can go through it. Level 4 is pretty amazing, to my knowledge there isn't a single cartridge used in shoulder fired rifles that can penetrate them.

Can anyone on /k/ tell me if there's a verdict on this, and/or if it's purchasable by average civilians? Seems magical.

http://defenstech.com/services-view/defend-x-life-saver-hard-armor/#.VzYXOSGYE3g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abd9bpvd6zY

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>>29932184

I have 3 plate carriers all with SAPI soft plates rated at Level IIIA. Same thing with my helmet.

They aren't nearly as good as ceramic or steel plates, but they will help save your life (even though you'll most likely be taken out of the fight if you ever get shot).

There's also a question about how much you are willing to spend on armor, if you're even likely to end up in a gun fight requiring that kind of protection, and if you could focus on training instead.

Personally I got those vests to help protect not only myself, but my family and/or PSD.

>>29933966
There's black tip ammo which punches through just about anything short of an APC. It's basically a giant tungsten slug and basically "cuts" through the plate instead of expanding like lead would. Of course this comes with the trade off of the round not expanding in whatever is wearing the armor.

>>29934079
>SAPI soft plates

>>29934596

AFAIK that's a measurement system for the size?

I am pretty much clueless, bro. I'm UCG (Untrained Civilian Goofball).

>>29934162
I know what tungustian is, and level 4 armor is designed to stop a .30-06 (arguably the most powerful self loading cartridge to see widespread use) with a penetrator made of that material. I'm sure if the military dedicated enough time and resources they could create a level 4 defeating round within the size of a .30-06, however as of right now such a round either doesn't exist or is not in widespread use. For example, not even the M993 can penetrate level 4.

>>29933789
Shit, I'd buy that armor.

>we guardsmen now

>>29934702
Actually I take part of this statement back. What I ment to say is that the 7.62x51 SLAP-T can't penetrate .5 inch of NATO grade RHA, which is only slightly more armor than a level 3 steel plate. I have not seen any footage of the M993 in action.

>>29933789
Steel or ceramic, once hit is compromised. You'd be a fool to keep wearing it and expecting protection.

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>>29935299

WRONG.

Are you a veteran? Law enforecement? Armorer?

Then fuck off. That isn't how ballistic protection works. Ceramic only loses its integrity if it fractures, steel dents but still provides adequate protection from incoming projectiles, and is usable until punctured.

KEVLAR is fucked as soon as its hit because the tight fibrous bonds are weakened by the force of the trauma and lose their solidarity.

Read a fucking book you broke ass 19 year old.

>>29934049
Yes they sell to civilians but green tip 5.56 chews through it like butter. Avoid unless you don't consider M855/M855A1 a threat.

>>29933854
Most ceramic plates have a Kevlar or Spectra Shield backer for impact dissipation and to stop fragments from passing through. That plus fractures accumulated from years of impact and drops can take a toll, hence the warranty expiring. If it wasn't worn every day it could still be good past the warranty period.

>>29934632
SAPI refers to the ceramic plate issued to the military before the ESAPI and then XSAPI became issue items.

A reference to the shape and size would be "SAPI cut" or "SAPI size" soft body armor.

>>29935347
Yes to veteran, also a contracts manager (glorified sales rep really) with one of the primary suppliers of ceramic armor (both individual and vehicle systems) to the US government. My boss is actually the guy who invented the modern boron carbide plate.

If a plate is struck, it is compromised. Multi-hit doesn't mean what most think it does; if your plate gets hit, and you walk away, the plate is done. It's job is to stop an impact by disbursing energy, and it will do that, not turn you into a tank.

>>29935347
Steel or ceramic doesn't matter, the plates are designed to take a hit or a couple at once then get replaced. After the plate is shit, it's lost it's integrity.

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>>29935347
Real Kevlar is heavy but it is NOT compromised on the first hit.

Different Anon here, what you said applies to newer ultralight ultrathin Polyethylene soft armor but not original woven aramid like Kevlar or Twaron.

Pic related is woven kevlar IIIA vest material taking eight muzzle contact shots of 9mm with no penetration. Newer ultrathin Spectra or Gold Shield vest material would be melted through on the first shot or torn through on the second or third impact on the same area.

>>29933198
>looks too paramilitary and we can't have idiots getting scared.
Does it piss you off you have to put the feelings of some whiny (prob liberal) cunts first over your own safety?

>>29933198
Good. Don't need more of you barney Fife faggots running around playing soldier anyway.

>>29936508
>>29936648
Less wannabe or Barney Fife and more "I don't want to die of heat stroke wearing this heavy, not breathable black Kevlar vest that's sized poorly because I got this second hand from the last fuck who worked here, and oh yeah the A/C broke again. I would rather have my nylon carrier that has lightweight plates where I need them and isn't a sweat box."

What is /k/'s recommended soft (no plates) armor?

>>29936917
Depends what you're doing? NIJ level 3a is nice and available, GOST level 2 is really good for ruskishit but almost always is with plates except a few concealable vests. Point blank and BALCS vests are good

If you don't mind questionable sources, I see SAPIs and ESAPIs at gun shows in my area often enough. You could try there for ceramics. I see so many restricted/controlled items for sale it's ridiculous.

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>>29933789
I feel somewhat intrigued on that shiz in the picture, any sauce?

>>29933883
are you a slumlord

Let's say I live in dindu central and have already been stabbed before. Surrounded by hi-points and frankly don't care if I have to wear a canvas jacket everywhere to cover it up.
>where can I get something built for
Stabs
Gunshot of any pistol caliber
>What would offer best protection for those situations
>What would provide at least some comfort, but that is optional
>What provides best protection assuming that dindus is going to empty a magazine into my chest
I have about 650 I could put into this.

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>>29932778
I wish she was mine, I would give her my banana daily and make hybrids with her.

>>29938098
I guess. My tenants are all color of trash.

>>29936869
>my gear isn't what I want

Boohoo motherfucker.

>>29937217
Point blank is shit, and BALCS is a style of cut. Not a brand.

>>29932728
Hello gecko45

>>29938357
do you have the one where she's miming ears?

>>29933294
>>29932853
Both wrong,

Ceramic can take multiple of most bullets very close to each other

Spalling cover on steel catches spall for many rounds

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>>29939024
Why so aggressive just because I want to be comfortable while I work? Is your life that sad?

>>29932728
They're called Millets stalks, stupid. Put them on your head and bullets turn to water.

>>29939267
>Ceramic can take multiple of most bullets very close to each other

This is totally false. You misunderstand what manufacturers mean by "multi hit" plate. Once the plate has been hit, it is compromised and unreliable.

>>29939740
Your comfort is irrelevant. You have a uniform designed to make you quickly recognisable as law enforcement, and your agency has a policy against appearing paramilitary. Go cry about it in arfcom

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>>29939740

>>29932184
All I know about bodyarmor is that anything less than Dragonskin Brand Dragonskin-Enhanced Advanced Tactical BodyShell Mark IV v4.0 is wearing a fucking death sentence. To all Soldiers, Marines, Airmen, Marines, Law Enforcement Officers, Security Enforcement Officers and American Citizen Patriots wearing inferior bodyarmor I urge you to replace it with something meeting the Minimum Dragonskin Protection Level Tactical Standards. or MDSPLTS level of 2.7 or above if you even value your life.

That's the only fucking thing anyone needs to know about body armor.

I will fucking fist-fight and SUE anyone saying otherwise.

>>29933868
so what you're saying is ceramic breaks itself over time?
what the fucks the point for keeping it for SHTF then?

>>29940098
If you care for it properly, it'll be fine.

>>29936869
You need a cooling vest, mechwarior

>>29939267
Ceramic fractures, steel gouges, dents, and spalls; both ablate force by detrioration

>>29932904
>$10/hr extra to risk getting shot at
Seems like some questionable life choices were made.

>>29935397
>armor salesman recommends you buy armor more often
hmm, well, okay if you say so.

>>29941072
Your call. But even if he's lying about his job, anon is right. Plates are single use.

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>>29935347
>Ceramic only loses its integrity if it fractures
Which is what happens when it get hit by a bullet.

Ceramic is one time used since it loses it's protective ability for what it is rated for when it get hit once. You can keep it after first round but it is recommended to get a new one so you wont have the risk of something penetrating.

Also, not all ceramic plates are equal. Some can stop more and take more punisment then other.


>KEVLAR IS FUCKED
That is why you got layers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p13q4LY0_rQ

Even old expired vest have protective capabilites.

>>29941040
top kek.

Tell me about it. Fucking americans. I can work on sunday and make $10 extra an hour on my shitty retail job. No chance of getting shot in that.

>>29939796
>>29939837
But I'm not law enforcement. I said what I do in another post. I am a glorified UPS driver with a gun. If someone made a PC that was light blue with 3 rows of MOLLE so I could put a couple GP pouches on there to hold work items I would wear that. I don't need to look tactical; I just don't want to hear wrapped in a half inch of sunlight absorbing Kevlar, but the only things on the market right now that hold ceramic plates and have side armor pockets I can find is the "tactical" shit.