IFAK's and Medshit

>>29789719
Throw that tourniquet away unless you know what you're doing with it

>>29789719
More info on the contents:
-Non Adherent Sterile Pas
-Antiseptic Towelette
-2 Alcohol Prep Pads
-Burn Cream
-Antibiotic Ointment
-Tourniquet
-Compressed Gauze
-Other Gauze N Wraps
-Gloves
-Pennicilin
-Small Bags of Pain Relievers

>>29789719
Orange bottle is pennicilin btw

>>29789728
Alright, danke
>>29789735
>>29789743
Fuck my replies are glitching, sorry

>>29789719
OP OP VERY IMPORTANT Don't forget to bring an extra dose of risperidone for yourself

>>29790380
>risperidone
My kikels

Those gloves look like latex, ditch them for nitrile.
dont drop the tourniquet go take a class on how to use it and some other medical shit. Don't know what you're using this for but you could just drop it altogether probably no problem.
Those bandages are kind of over kill you could probably just get away with small adhesives like plasters because the likelihood of needing that stuff is pretty slim and you're more likely to need them for a little papercut thingy.
You have no tape in there with bandages/gauss? how do you plan on getting it to stay in place? it'd come in handy with the non-adherent sterile pad in a pinch.
non labeled pills wtf?

>>29789719
Go with the nitrile, get another tourniquet, get an NPA and learn what to do with it, more gauze, regular gauze is the most important thing

>>29789728
>>29789759

dont throw it away, learn how to use it, its not difficult.

EMT fag here with a few recommendations from my personal IFAK
First ditch the penicillin, not sure if you are going for antibiotic prophylaxis or expecting to treat a bacterial infection
Also, the burn cream is probably silvadene or similar, if you go to a hospital with burn cream on the nurse will scrape it off and it will hurt. Use saline, hydrogel or water to cool a burn.

>Nitrile gloves, 4 pair
Latex allergies are common enough. Plus nitrile doesn't tear as easily

>Tourniquet-2 (get the $35 CAT, the windlass will break on a knock off)
Used for arterial bleeding on extremities. Will work for serious venous bleeding too if direct pressure doesn't work. If you put one of these one someone get them to a hospital ASAP.
Place it high and tight(armpit or up by the groin on the leg, try to not snag their testicles). Crank the handle until you can't anymore then secure it. If bleeding doesn't stop apply another tourniquet below the first, do NOT remove the first. Keep a sharpie with it and write "TK" followed by the location and time on their forehead. for example "TK RL 14:30" would mean tourniquet right leg 2:30 pm. Make sure to mention the tourniquet when you transfer care.

>A list of any medical conditions, medications and allergies you have
This could seriously save your life

>Three day supply of rx meds you need to take
Don't want to get stuck in the woods without them. Also spare rx glasses or contacts if you need them

>4x4s-6 and 3" rolled gauze-2
General wound dressing.

>3" bandage tape
Need something to secure that gauze

>Ace bandage
Puts pressure on dressings

>Trauma shears
You might have to cut clothes off, or cut rope or any number of things

>Combat gauze (embedded with quick clot)
For penetrating trauma of the abdomen.

>Antibiotic ointment
Keeps little things from turning into big things

>NPA 24F and sugralube
Not recommended. If they can't maintain an airway you lube it up and slide it into their right nostril with the bevel out
1/?

>>29792351

Please continue.

>>29792351
>Triangular bandage-2
Sling and swath, splinting, makeshift tourniquet. Too many uses to list

>Ibuprofen and Diphenhydramine
Ibuprofen is mild painkiller and anti inflammatory
Diphenhydramine is for allergies

That's about it, this all fits in a small pouch or fanny pack and can handle quite a lot of medical problems out in the woods. I can go over some field treatments for common innawoods ailments if you like.

>>29792412
Are there any classes or learning materials that you can recommend apart from basic cpr/first aid (already have those)?

>>29792511
It's a big commitment, but you could take EMT classes at you local community college. Mine were two three hour courses per week for one semester.

Or you could buy these books
http://www.amazon.com/Emergency-Care-13th-Daniel-Limmer/dp/0134024559?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages03

http://www.amazon.com/Workbook-Emergency-Care-Robert-Elling/dp/0134010736?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages01

Read the text and do the workbook. How much you are covered by good samaritan laws is a good thing to know. The reason I worry about you carrying an NPA is that it's more of an "emergency medical device" than a first aid device, and you performing interventions without legitimate training could open you up to a lawsuit. Saving a friends life with it is good; saving a strangers life with it, only to get sued later because he got an infection or lost his sense of smell is bad.

Most first aid courses offered to the general public are basically a rehashing of high school health class, as I'm sure you noticed. The things you really need to know in an emergency are not that complicated, but they do need to be practiced for you to do them correctly. I know it's a big time and money commitment, to get your card. If you join your local volly fire agancy you can usually get it for free. Plus once you get the card, you can take all of the cool federally funded training programs like tactical medic, water rescue, high angle and wilderness rescue. They're free, the gubment pays for your motel room and provides 1-2 meals per day; but you need the EMT-B card to get in.

Other than that, buy some cheap medical supplies off of amazon and practice on your girlfriend or hunting buddies.
Just remember field interventions do not save lives on their own, they keep the patient alive until they get to a hospital.

>>29792649
Not OP, but thank you. I've been trying to find this information forever.

>>29794190
Kind of got a fire lit under my ass from writing that. Do we have an official /k/ommando guide to innawoods trauma?

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>>29794465
Heres one I had saved.

>>29794509
I think I can expand on that

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>>29789728
The ol' "tourniquets are a last resort" meme

This isnt the gulf war anymore pal, im just a bitch EMT-B and we probably use a tourniquet once a week.

it takes about 6-8hours for tissue damage to start, but 12-24 hours until irreversible tissue death.

>>29789719

just apply it 2 inches above the wound and twist it until you can no longer palpate a distal pulse and/or the bleeding stops, for most people this is a minimum of about 6 times

>>29794590
More information is always appreciated.

>>29794625
>just apply it 2 inches above the wound and twist it until you can no longer palpate a distal pulse and/or the bleeding stops, for most people this is a minimum of about 6 times

The new 2016 standards are calling for placement as proximal on the limb as possible. The thinking is that a fully severed artery may retract further than 2" above the wound site, or that a penetrating trauma may cause injury further up the artery. Combine those fears with the long ass ischemic time of extremities and your slapping that tourniquet on at scrotum level.

>>29794693
This. Better safe than sorry. Especially with the kind of bleeding that would warrant tq usage in the first place.

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>>29794693
>>29794765

Hey thanks for the heads up guys, i appreciate it.

You're right it makes total sense, i need to update myself to the 2016 standards.

>>29795384
>Is corrected on the internet about his profession
>Researched it and came to reasonable conclusion

Have my babies you magnificent bastard

>>29795445
Ha, i guess you can say its literally a matter of life or death.

>>29789728
tourniquets are literally retard proof

for the OP get a gauze pad and an ace wrap and itll be good

>>29789719
The good thing about working in a hospital is all the good bandages and shit you get.

>>29795647
>tourniquets are literally retard proof
Nothing is retard proof. Many a soldier has lost a testicle to a hastily applied tourniquet.

I wish I were joking

>>29794693
2016 what? ATLS? PHTLS? Saying 2016 guidelines doesn't mean shit. Me fucking your mom is part of my 2016 guidelines kid.

>>29795724
2016 TCCC
https://www.naemt.org/docs/default-source/education-documents/tccc/10-9-15-updates/tccc-change-prop-1402-optimizing-tq-use-141109-jsom.pdf?sfvrsn=2

>>29796078
Thank you for the reference as there are various money making scheme merit badge programs that often make stuff up in cycles every 5 years based on what is often proven to be flawed research. TCCC whatever that one is, is but a drop in the merit badge market.

Having placed numerous tourniquets I find it fascinating how much of a science people want to make it. It is rather simple and it either works as is or has to be adjusted.

Funniest tourniquet story I personally have was for a gal who drove her car into a 20 foot embankment and had the car nose and ass planted on either side with a waterway underneath and 10 feet to go. Once I got to her it was obvious a tourniquet was needed as the floorboard had an inch of blood sloshing around as the impact literally ripped her right gas pedal foot off making it a partial amputation/open dislocation. Tourniquet to upper calf and we are golden. Get her out and continue to see blood pouring like a waterfal. Get to a safe space and notice it's coming from up north. Oh yea... open femur fracture with non-existent knee that was blown into a million peices. Yea that will do it. So tourniquet to thigh.

Shit worked. It wasn't rocket science. I didn't pull out a measuring tape and or argue online while referencing some TCCC guideline. Alot of first aid is trial and error. I am not saying adequate and proper peer reviewed research published in a legitimate journal is hogwash, to be honest I am shit at research and avoided grad school because I knew that. Applying a tourniquet though? Doesn't require a fucking degree so get over yourself.

>>29794625
I call bullshit on your claim. A paramedic I rode with during training, who has worked in a ghetto area his entire career, mind you, said that he has only used tourniquets twice; once where a kid had his femur broken and it punctured his femoral artery, (lived, luckily), and a dipshit who ND'd into the top of his knee and had the round exit just below it, (lived, unluckily).

>>29796201
>High and tight placement would have prevented additional blood loss
>Still apparently a bad idea

>>29796360
Point is. In 40 degree weather in the rain on a rope with an entrapped patient, you go for what you can and reassess. It's just common sense. In the right application you can't make it worse with a tourniquet.

Paramedic here.

Gear comes second to knowing how to use it. Learn how to use your shit before you go on tacticool first aid fantasies. Take a Certified First Responder class, or even just see if your local EMS squad or Fire Department offers any kind of lessons to the public.

IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE IT, DON'T EVEN PACK IT
YOUTUBE VIDEOS ARE NOT TRAINING

Consider the different kinds of first aid you might need your IFAK for. Is it an all-purpose kit you'll keep in your trunk? Is it for one specific purpose (ie: "Just in case" GSW kit for the range)?

For Trauma, at a minimum:
>Rolled gauze and 4x4s, and maybe an abdominal pad
>An Ace bandage or two
>A triangular bandage or two (for a tourniquet, a sling, etc)
>A small bottle of saline, or at least water

Splints can be improvised out of anything rigid and tape. Tourniquets are easy to do with a triangular bandage. If you want to expand on it,
>A tacticool tourniquet of your choice
>Quikclot rolled or Z-fold gauze (imo much more useful than powder or a 4x4 in terms of packing wounds)
>An Israel Bandage
>If space permits, a SAM splint (those mini-finger sized SAMs are great too)
>
In terms of everything else:
>Chewable Aspirin
Taking an aspirin at the onset of heart attack symptoms will very likely save your life. Don't take it because your bleeding boo-boo hurts, please - it prevents clotting (hence why it's effective for heart attacks)
>Trauma shears. Fuck clothes in the way of wounds.

If you want more frills,
>Any basic OTC meds you expect to need.
No, Anon, you don't need Pepto Bismol in your GSW kit - but you might want it in your innawoods camping kit.
>Prescription meds you take. Don't share these, dumbass.
>Neosporin is fine for minor scrapes and cuts. Don't use it on anything you need to break out the big boy bandages for.
>Tweezers. Fuck splinters.
>CPR Mask - if you don't like the idea of mouth to mouth cooties.

>>29797607
Forgot to mention tape. Pack tape. There's never any medical tape when you need it, it always disappears.

Don't bother with any airways - OPAs or NPAs. For starters, unless you genuinely know what you're doing, you'll fuck it all up and do more harm than good (and end up covered in vomit for it). Secondly, if you need to open an airway (ie: while performing CPR), a simple jaw thrust or chin lift is perfectly fine until real medical help gets there.

>>29794625
More or less this.
Tourniquets can and do cause harm, but the danger is often overstated.
It's also the lesser of two evils compared to just bleeding away all your precious blood.
Still, go for direct pressure to control bleeding first, and if that fails, then go for the tourniquet (unless they're gushing so much blood that direct pressure is obviously hopeless anyway)

Also, if you're using a tourniquet a week, you really should try direct pressure first once in a while. I use maybe one a month.

>>29794693
Honestly, I think the average layperson isn't going to crank the windlass with enough authority at scrotum-level to do the job. As long as it's relatively high, it's fine in my book.

>>29796206
Different people have different physiology, might be on blood thinners, etc. It's plausible to me.

>>29797745
Personally, my own IFAKs:

I keep one in my trunk, one on my range bag, one at home. They're small and no-nonsense and fit into a bag a little bit bigger than my fist.

>1 Israeli bandage
>1CAT Tourniquet
>1 Rolled Quikclot Gauze
>1 Chewable Aspirin

Just enough for really major hemmoraging, or the on-hand aspirin for chest pains. Stopping a heavy bleed or getting an aspirin into somebody in those critical 5 to 20 minutes between 911 being called and an ambulance showing up will make a difference.

If they're writhing in agony because of a broken bone, if they fell and can't get back up, even if they ate shellfish even though they knew they're allergic, or spilled hot oil all over their nuts, they'll probably survive the wait until EMS shows up, but if they're gushing blood or about to go into cardiac arrest, they might not.

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>>29796206
>>29797745
i admit, i exaggerated for comedic effect.

its probably closer to once, or twice a month/ month and a half.

just recently we had a PT put his arm through a plate glass window and cut him to the bone on the underside of his forearm about an inch or two below his elbow, you forget sometimes how much blood someone can lose and be fine.

Since this is a medical thread, I assume there will be a bunch of EMTs/paramedics in here. I'm interested in becoming an EMT, but I'm worried about it in the long run. Will I forever be doomed to ridiculous graveyard shifts and other retarded scheduling, or is there a way to have a somewhat normal work day/week, so that I could actually have time to see my friends and family? Is there any sort of advancement in the field, or an easy way to lateral out after a while? Asside from the obvious mental strain, what is the physical strain like? Are there old medics? Will I wake up one day when I'm 40 and discover that I'm physically unable to do my job, but have no other career to fall back on?

Basically tl;dr: How good is EMT/Paramedic as a lifelong career?

>>29797607

This is stupid advise.

Just because you don't know how to use it doesn't mean someone else around you does not.

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>>29797997
where i work we have 24 hours on and 48 off

and after about a week of that you get 3 days off.

EMTs start at about 30k a year but can top out to about 55k in 5 years

which is pretty good for only a 3 month cert and 1200 dollar fee

the usually progression is EMT-B to EMT-P (Paramedic)

that's at least another year of straining, but rumor is that in the future paramedics will be required to get their associates

say you're tired of the EMS career, Paramedics can bridge over to nursing, or physician assistant.

plenty of old medics, they usually try to pair a new emt, with an old medic.

paramedics make about 33k and top off to about 60k in 3 years

firemedics make a bit more, but im not one so i cant talk much about it, and they also have more progression and can turn it into a career in fire

people get injured from lifting, but im pretty /fit/ so i have proper mechanics, strength, and experience in that. for bariatrics we can refuse transport and call in a specialty teams instead.

to avoid burnout i think you should look at EMS as a stepping stone, not a destination.

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How about this?

A 30 ml bottle of Betadine.

Won't mean much if you just have to get to a hospital. But otherwise pretty useful, I think.

>>29798229
Oh good god I laughed entirely way too hard at this post.

>>29798013
I'd rather not have a tourniquet applied to my neck by an inept Good Samaritan.

If you pack it, you should know how to use it, period.
If you're too retarded or useless to learn how to properly make use of things which, if misused, can cause complications, injury, and death, you have no business carrying them.
Birds of a feather flock together, so I wouldn't have much more faith in the company you keep.

>>29798279
Useful for what exactly?

If you're worried about your little booboo getting infected, neosporin will do as good a job and probably promote faster healing.
If you have a puncture wound deep enough to be really worried about infection, you need to go to a hospital to get it debrided and remove any foreign bodies that might have gotten in there.

It's effective for what it's used for, but the only use I can see for it outside of a hospital is if you're nostalgic for how the iodine burned when you were a kid. Even then, leave it in your medicine cabinet next to the bandaids

>>29795683
why would anyone put a tourniquet on someone's balls?

>>29789743
Replace the Penicillin with another broad spectrum antibiotic like Azithromycin that folks with cillin allergies can take

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>>29798300
i know i was being generous about the pay. and its not as easy to make the switch from EMT-P to RN or PA as i made it sound

>>29800155
its not on purpose, but when the adrenaline is pumping and you slap a tourniquet on high and tight over someones clothes, its definitely possible if that guy was bat winging you got a testicle trapped under a tourniquet

surprised nobody said occlusive dressings, those are a must

How can a tourniquet be dangerous?

I get you only apply with serious bleeding that won't stop.

Is it just leaving it on too long thats dangerous?

>>29801262
Can cause nerve and vascular damage

>>29801262

yes. leaving it on can cause necrosis and possible nerve damage, PTS and blood clots.

2 hours is the most you should have a TQ on, ideally.

>>29801360
>>29801448
I just recently bought one and was playing around with it on my leg just to get the basic idea of how it works

When it is really being used, how hard do you ratchet this thing down? to the point where it would be extremely painful for someone (in terms of pressure)

Hey medfags,

Whats good for broken ribs? Rolled a car couple days back and I cant move for shit. Doc prescribed some pain killers but basically said "cant do nothin"

Are rib belts good ideas? How would the military treat broken ribs so that the soldier can atleast get himself out of battle?

I seriously cant get up from the laying position without some help from someone. Even then, it hurts like a mofo and i dont wanna do it.

>>29801666
It will be extremely painful for the person. You ratchet it down until you can't turn it any more.

>>29801716
Find a comfortable position and stay there for several weeks. Sorry, I know that shit sucks.

>>29801666

satan confirmed

you tighten it down until you can no longer palpate a distal pulse, or until bleeding is controlled

>>29801763

uuuuuuuuuuu

but seriously, you dont have to go as tight as possible just until you accomplish what i said above.

>>29801716

rest and NSAIDs

>>29789728
>place tourniquet high on the appendage above the wound
>tighten so the bleeding stops
>write down what time you put it on
>don't take it off unless you're a doctor
>don't put it on a joint, your torso, or around your neck
>if you leave it on for a day you could lose that limb, but it's a lot better than bleeding to death in 30 seconds

You are now trained in tourniquet use

>>29789719
You could add hemostatic gauze, a nasal pharyngeal airway tube (for partially obstructed airway), and an occlusive dressing (sucking chest wound). Also, you can never have enough tourniquets

My current IFAK setup is:

IFAK pouch: $16
2xTQ/sharpie: $50
NPA: $8
Tension pneumothorax needle: $10
HALO chest seal: $19
bacitracin: $3
matte shears: $9
quikclot/gauze/nitride gloves/duct tape/antiseptic wipe kit: $20
self adhesive wrap tape: $6
Israeli compression bandage: $10
steristrip kit: $9
Ammonia inhalant pack: $4
total: $164

Anything important missing? Don't have any meds or anything in em. Ibuprofen wouldn't be a bad idea.

>>29802295
Aren't you only supposed to leave them on for an hour? Or is that just loosening them.

>>29802364

more israeli dressings/bulky dressings/ABD dressing otherwise pretty good.

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>>29802469
There's more gauze/ABD than let on, do you think that's not enough? Don't really have room for more Israelis.

This is an earlier pic without everything in it.

>>29789719
most of /k/ would need extra doses of trynoassatall in their kits

>>29802375
Don't remove a tourniquet unless applied very recently. You can cause a bunch of serious health hazards if you loosen or remove it without proper knowledge

>>29802514

I would add some more if you can, a serious wound would soak through what you have pretty quickly.

What really is the problem with a tourniquet and why people should not use it anyway? And how or when use it?

Pls no bully, not really into the med field.

>>29802640
>a serious would would soak through quikclot, an israeli, and layers of gauze
ok

>>29802709

t. never managed a trauma patient

>>29802364
Duck tape roll. Our military IFAKs had duct tape. Always came in handy.

>>29802751
Already on there.

>>29802640
but he's right anon.

question for people who know what they're doing-
I have a bunch of valium for reasons. Would this be a worthy thing to pack for innawoods excursions longer than 2 days?
Right now all I bring are motrin, imodium, neosporin, and glue/gauze/bandages

>>29802806

Valium is best for anxiety, and an anticonvulsant.

If you cant sleep or know someone who has seizures it could be helpful but pill form valium isnt really much of any help in an emergency.

>>29792412
Nurse anon coming in to recommend Aspirin for fat people having heart attacks. Also cough drops!

>>29801216
They're easily improvised with the wrapper from the shit you're going to use anyway and the tape you already have in your kit. If you want the premade ones, go ahead by all means, but they're no more effective than the old school wrapper+tape.

>>29801716
Chicken soup. Broken ribs are a bitch, they pretty much just have to heal on their own.

>>29802329
Please don't recommend NPAs to people who don't know how to use them. There's very serious contraindications and dangers for them, nobody wants an NPA jabbed into their grey matter. For any airway related first aid, a simple chin lift or jaw thrust is entirely adequate until EMS comes.

>>29802364
Please tell me you know when, where, and how to use that needle.
If you do, then you should have enough EMS knowledge to figure out your own kit needs.
Don't forget the chewable aspirin you faggot.

>>29802835
Any pill can be a suppository if you believe in yourself.

>>29802960
>Please tell me you know when, where, and how to use that needle.
Obviously. But other opinions are nice to have.

Does anyone worry about aggravating bleeds with aspirin administration?

>>29802960

an improvised occlusive doesnt even compare to a dedicated occlusive dressing/chest seal

while its good to know how to improvise, its unwise for that to be plan a

>>29801216
Right?! How the fuck else you damn posers gonna treat a gsw. The main item of discussion on this board is guns and shooting. All these bandages and wraps are cloth and shit.

>>29803104

most here dont have medical training I'd assume.

>>29801716
Do what the medical professional says.

Army trains docs and medics to same standard as civilians. Perhaps lower lol.

Rest and drugs.

>>29801716
ween your self off the drugs as fast as possible if you can, especially if you are on oxy. that shit forms dependency like none other. don't be afraid to ask for a different medication if you are still in pain, and don't overstrain your self. the last thing you want to do is make things worse. don't worry about asking for help, it may not be the most visible injury but you are fucking injured dont try and be a tough guy other than getting off the drugs asap

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>2 Sterile drapes
>2 Packs of steri strips
>1 Ace bandage
>1 Roll of shit tape
>1 tube of skin integrity wound gel
>1 ABD pad
>Lots of gloves
>Lots of alcohol pads
>1 4x4 gauze
>1 2x2 gauze
>5 non adherent dressings
>1 clear window dressing
>1 odor preventing dressing

I dont have enough shit like alcohol, antibiotics, or NSAIDS, I should get some aspiring and a big thing of quick clot.

>>29803578

you need a TQ, a lot more gauze, chest seal and some israelis. OPA/NPA would be good too.

props on the ABD, those are good.

>>29803629
Thats some good info thank you.

army medic here run your ifak on wether or not youre running in a team or squad what good is an npa gonna do you if youre going to apply it to yourself, I suggest you throw an emergency traum bandage in there and if running in the team have a designated person to treat people probably some one with a paramedic cert or atleast an emt b and have him carry a medical pouch or possibly a m9 aid bag get some medical tape in there and a few rolls atleast remember in a shtf situation trying to sustain life for a long time is going to be difficult without a physician or PA

>>29789728
or you have it ready for someone who does know how to use it... Same with decompression needles or na's

>>29789719
Why is people never pack more than one pair of gloves in their kit? I don't expect them to have ten pairs, but at least three pairs to start with.

That IFAK sucks dick

What you need

>tourniquets
>rolls of gauze (kerlex)
>pieces of gauze (2x2s and 4x4s)
>tape
>trauma shears
>Sam splint if you can afford it
>cravats
>abx ointment (neosporin or equivalent)
>quickclot (expensive too)
>pressure bandages and/or ace wrap


No need for any pills. You are not a doctor and do not have privileges to dispense that medication (unless it's OTC and then pretty much useless)

I don't think you understand how antibiotics work, but 2 pills of penicillin will do jack shit for you, and might even worsen the condition.

This is coming from a former army medic and now ER nurse.

If you can initiate IV's and your IFAK or aid bag can allow some 20G and 18G needles with tubing and a liter of fluid

>inb4 "a liter of cola

For your intents and purposes there's almost no need for alcohol prep pads, maybe you can sanitize your fingers before you eat or something. But not really useful in your IFAK.

Overall 3/10 for trying