What went wrong, /k/?

>>29784117
They spent their time on wunderwaffe instead of small arms and mass producing tanks like the PzIV.

poor leadership

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they spent too much time killing the j00s in germany and not enough time killing the j00s in america

>>29784117
They decided to be dumbasses and invade Poland.

>>29784117
War with Russia.

>>29784133
>>29784134
>>29784522
These.

Also.

>the USSR has the largest army on the planet and literally thousands of miles of strategic depth
>why don't we declare war on them
>the US has the largest industrial capacity of any nation on earth
>why don't we declare war on them 5 months after we invaded the USSR, with the fight in the East still raging

>>29784133
panzer4 was reaching the end of its life. It was either panther or bust.

>>29784575
They should have started something like the E series tanks, way earlier.

Maintanence, brah.

>>29784117

As soon as they got bogged down in the Soviet Union, they were fucked. They needed the Eastern Front to be a quick, easy victory so they would gain access to Russian oil fields.

>>29784566
>people will still claim the nazis were smart

Dresden had it coming.

>>29784596
hitler's refusal to retreat also fucks thing up for germany. For him, it was the world or nothing at all.

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>>29784575
Panther or Stug life

>>29784643
even the stug was reaching its limit. The german had reach the limit of the two chassis with the stug G and panzer 4 H.

ideally, all effort would be gear toward producing the panther and jagd panther.

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>>29784692
Fuck the stug, make more of pic related

>>29784117
Nothing. The STG44 was amazing for it's time.

Admittedly it was more complex to manufacturer than it should have been (typical German engineering- over complicate the shit out of everything)

But later models were simplified out of necessity, pretty ground breaking rifle all in all though.

>>29784599
If you are willing to kill indescriminately don't get mad when you are killed indiscriminately.

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also add in

>We need to defeat Britain
>Our strategic campaign is working pretty well. We're losing aircraft faster than they are, but at least we can replace our losses. We've wrecked some of their radar bases, airfields, and manufacturing.

Phone call:

>Hallo?
>Javol, Mein Fuhrer.

>Ok listen up guys. New plans.
>We're going to stop attacking the RAF and start bombing London. That will surely win the campaign! Reichsmarschall

>Goring is a smart guy...

>>29784643
>>29784692
Even if StugIII and PzKpfw IV were nearing "end of its life," they were arguably the most important tank/assault gun by the end of the war. Easy to mass produce, and very reliable.

"The main advantage of the PzKpfw IV and Stug III was their availability. They were much cheaper to build and so manufactured in much more substantial numbers. The PzKpfw IV and Stug III were not only much more numerous, but also much more reliable. In the second half of 1943, the PzKpfw IV had an average reliability rate of 48 percent; the Stug III had a rate of 65 percent--double that of the Tiger or Panther. It is not widely appreciated, but the high reliability of the Stug III meant that assault guns become the most numerous operational German AFV on the front in the latter half of 1943.

[...]

The antitank performance of the Stug III was reinforced by the crews' excellent artillery training and better fire-control sights compared to conventional tanks. The sights on the Stug III were more powerful than those on tanks, and the Stug III commander had a special binocular periscopic sight that improved rangefinding. A report by the Waffenamt in September 1943 reported that 'The kill rates of assault gun batteries are frequently higher than those of Panzer units even though both are equiped with the same [75mm L/48] main gun.' A report to Hitler in August 1943 after the Kursk battles indicated that 'the reports from the front submitted to the Führer highlight the exceptional value of the assault gun which in several cases under the prevailing combat conditions proved superior to the Panzer IV.' "

From Zaloga's "Armored Champion," pages 203-5

>>29784117
With fucking what?

>>29784804
?
When were the Nazi's fire bombing civilians & refugees?
When were the Nazi's sinking ships filled with refugees?

Maybe you should shut the fuck up

>>29784874
Maybe Hitler didn't expect that Britain would be so stupid & cucked that they would bankrupt their empire fighting a pointless unnecessary war.
And now look at the UK, a garbage socialist shithole with the worst health care in all the west, while muslims rape their daughters.

>>29784977
Back to stormfront with you.

>>29784117
A 68 millions hab. country with no colonies and limited land went at war against :
USSR : 168 millions
UK : 47 millions
USA : 138 millions

>>29784977
>>
Maybe Hitler didn't expect that Britain would be so stupid & cucked that they would bankrupt their empire fighting a pointless unnecessary war.
And now look at the UK, a garbage socialist shithole with the worst health care in all the west, while muslims rape their daughters.

UK's dominate European strategy has always been to prevent a single power from uniting it. they know the channel is not going to protect them if the entire europe were to set against them.


and the british empire was already in the process of falling. The independence movement in India was gaining strength and they already lost Ireland.

no foward grip

>>29784977

>When were the Nazi's fire bombing civilians & refugees?

Rotterdam. 1940.

To inb4 you totaly: The first (strategic) bombardment of a city by air was done by the Germans in 1914 against the city of Antwerp.

>>29784133

Panzer IV was an inferior vehicle with zero survivability, like a Sherman or a T-34.

It could only succeed where the enemy had no heavier AT weapons than a bundle of grenades.

>>29785056
yeah, because a country that choses to fight to the death is 'cucked'. you're 12 and you don't even know what that word means. fuck you're a retard.

What effect would a mechanically simplified Panzer IV have effected the war effort

>>29784133

They should've focused on mass producing a modified Panther.

Modifications include:

-88mm L56 gun instead of the 75mm L70 for roughly equal anti-tank performance but sacrificing some ammo carrying capacity for greater HE-Frag capability.

-Diesel engine for enhaced reliability and increased crew safety.

-Rear wheel drive for simplicity reasons for construction.

-Standard roadwheels instead of interleaved ones for ease of battlefield maintenance.

>>29785244
PzKpfw IV was already fairly simple. The J model WAS greatly simplified, albeit to the point it was purely hand cranked turret. The main problem with PzIV was it had no further potential as a turreted tank. It's suspension was at its limit with 80mm armour and long 75mm. (Whilst the Sherman was able to take huge 105mm cannons)

>>29784782
>Admittedly it was more complex to manufacturer than it should have been (typical German engineering- over complicate the shit out of everything)

Your and idiot.


The StG was ideal for mass production; cheap stampings and few complex machined parts. It was the original mass production assault rifle.

>>29785244
It wouldn't matter what they had if a Corporal is the one calling the shots.

>>29784977
>Nazis bomb London instead of military targets during the blitz

>Uboats sink every ship they can find

>Upset when Britian and the USA do the same thing, only harder and better.

Naziboos will defend this

>>29785359
The RAF bombed Berlin first, although by accident iirc.

logistics dependent on trains and horse cart. meanwhile America crapped out millions of trucks and gave them to the Soviets and British.

way too much meth early on.

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>>29785286
>-88mm L56 gun instead of the 75mm L70
Turret isn't big enough to fit the 88, see pic.

Also what should have been done:
>remove bow gunner, make the TC the Radio Operator
>add pintle MG of some kind for the TC with a shield
>lengthen the turret to store more ready ammo

>>29785399
>logistics
This. Build as many assault rifes and psuedo-mbts as you want, if the guys using them are being resupplied by horses you're gonna lose. The Sherman's strength was parts standardization that meant any tank knocked out was back in the field in no time, with almost all the crew to boot

>>29784634
Nigga shoulda read sun tzu

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>>29784117
Hubris. They had such a relatively easy time invading Poland, France, Czechoslovakia, Austria, and Belgium, that when they started invading the Soviet Union in the summer of 1941 they thought they could roll them before the winter could affect them. The lack of winter gear, the Soviet's tenacious resistance despite staggering loses, and lack of sufficient logistics prevented them from sacking Moscow leadership before being bogged down from the winter conditions. Once the Soviets could move production towards the Urals and secure shipments from the Allies, Germany was fucked. They couldn't go toe to toe with even the Soviets alone in a war of attrition.

>>29784566
The USSR was poised to attack Germany, Germany took the initiative, almost worked if they hadn't gone full retard at Stalingrad and it wasn't a record cold winter even by Russian standards.

The US was going to invade anyways, it's not like they just decided to because Germany signed a piece of paper making war official.

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>>29785484

Retarded opinion thrown together by someone who obviously has no detailed knowledge about the campaigns in Poland and France.

Poland was far from easy, the Wehrmacht lost a significant amount of men and tanks, but you might have a point about the Frenchies.

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>>29785509
>hadn't gone full retard at Stalingrad and it wasn't a record cold winter even by Russian standards.

The war was lost when the Italians were delayed in their Greek campaign. This pushed Barbarossa back by 2 months and this caused them to freeze to death on the outskirts of Moscow.

Fucking spaghetti niggers, as usual.

>>29785326
Yes.

I'm talking about the extra cuts the did on the bolt and extractor and the like.

Late war variants made it simpler and allowed the same parts to be machined faster with fewer passes required.

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>>29785518

>calls opinion retarded
>doesn't know the definition of the word "relatively"

Time to put your helmet on.

>>29784133
>mass producing tanks like the PzIV.

Everyone knows that the Stug was the most produced, from the Pz III chassis. The Pz IV would have been the next Panther, without the panther if somebody did not steal the contract and basically made economized Pz III's as a stopgap.

>>29785509

>US was going to invade anyways

no, not really, we were quite happy to sit back and just sell arms to practically everyone then Japan went full retard and Germany followed suit cuz allies

>>29785547

You're nitpicking. The StG was purpose-built with cheap manufacturing and war-time austerity in mind. The bolt needed perhaps 2-3 machining steps by semi-skilled labour.

>>29784804
>If you are willing to kill indescriminately don't get mad when you are killed indiscriminately.
That logic completely denies any high moral ground to those who employ it. There's very little point in defeating nazis (aside from showing off your edge) if you become no better than nazis in process.

>>29784977
>When were the Nazi's fire bombing civilians & refugees?
All over the captured USSR territory.

>>29785244
>What effect
A nonexistent one.

>>29785581
>You're nitpicking
Yes, as a matter of fact I am.

I already stated it was a great rifle you autist.

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>>29784117
the needed console commands such as
instantresearch
instantproduction
givemeall 99999999
manpower 1000000
Not send scientists to the front (seriously, what the fuck?)
Not have companies competing against each other to the point where it hurts the MIC
Given soldiers winter gear
Not gone to stalingrad, let Romania, hungary and Bulgaria suffer, ffs.
Oh, and fuck Italy, don't even bother, they're total slackers.

>>29785509
>almost worked if they hadn't gone full retard at Stalingrad
And at Leningrad. And at Kursk. And at Veriya. And at Kaluga. While NOT fucking up (...themselves, and ROYALLY fucking up Russians...) at Kiev, Kharkov (3 times no less), Rzhev (4 times) and Kerch.

Ostfront did not boil down to teh Stalingrad and teh winter. One could say that situation got a lot more complicated well prior to that to that, when Germans got bogged down in Leningrad siege instead of rushing all the way to Archangelsk and cutting off the lend-lease, and then even after taking forces from blockade to take Moscow ASAP were still BTFO in their attempt.

Eastern Front was the single hugest, meanest, most fucked up and complicated theater of operations in the mankind's history of warfare. You just can't line it all up as "these and these got had it all right but then comes along winter and one stupid battle and they're fucked".

>>29785669
>Not gone to stalingrad
Can't. That's how Soviets get dat oil from Baku. That had to be cut if Germany hopes to win.

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>>29785721
Down the line, maybe, but being within 60km of Moskva and suddenly saying, meh, fuck it, let's retreat is kinda silly, and it would also be a huge blow to morale. Point is if they let the countries mentioned have it left right and center from Rooskies for a little while, they might be able to use heeresgruppe sud and take those areas without having such a nasty time constraint. Only my imaginary cents however.

>>29785693
yeah even Kiev was a clusterfuck
the russian almost managed to throw runstedt encirclement in Kiev,only guderian swing upwards with AGS did they managed to trap those plus half a million ruskies

>>29785788
> Point is if they let the countries mentioned have it left right and center from Rooskies for a little while
...they get themselves an early and very successful Soviet counteroffensive in South cutting up, and have enjoy pretty much another Stalingrad, but this time not just for Paulus but for the entire Heeresgruppe Mitte.

>and take those areas
Moscow and Tula were protected a LOT better than Stalingrad was at first.

>>29785877
And yet they were in the neighbour county of moscow.
Also, the upswing would depend on them being able to hold a stable line, letting the other countries suffer some heavy attrition before going to to toe themselves, given a success in the north of course.

>>29784153
Only 3% of the holocaust victims were German jews. German jews had a 1 in 2 chance of survival, Eastern European jews a 1 in 20 chance.

>>29784804
If you claim moral superiority over a butchering madman don't act like one.

>>29784117
Nothing. Every military uses assault rifles now. StG-44 paved the way. It's the grandfather that can look happily upon his numerous offspring.

>>29784775
Thing was a piece of shit.

>>29784977
Hitler did nothing wrong.

Except, y'know... lose ww2

>>29784874
Funny you should say that, the British factories were shitting out hundreds more planes a months than the Germans. Something like 500-600 as opposed to just 200.

>>29784977
>UK
>the worst health care in all the west

That's not how you spell USA. Though I guess Obama patched up he worst of the shit.

>>29785509
>The USSR was poised to attack Germany

Stupid myth is stupid. The Soviets had nothing to gain fromsuch a war. A bunch of eastern european shitholes that would be a net economic drag on the USSR proper was the last thing Stalin wanted. Only reaosn the Soviets took it after the war was so they wouldn't walk away empty-handed and because after the Nazis killed about thirty million Russians, the rest of them was kinda neurotic about having a buffer one between their country and any possible future invaders.

>>29784564
Pretty much this the Anit-Comintern Pact meant they Germany was safe and they could have kept Russia happy by handing them some of the conquered territory on the Russian boirder.