Why only single fire?

So people dont mag dump on one guy or when a bush moves because of a squirrel

>>29177306

Rapid semi-automatic fire is more effective with rifles to lay down effective suppressive fire. The rate of fire is still high, but the accuracy is better and it is more sustainable. Machineguns on full auto are heavier, supported, and beltfed which makes them better suited to rapid full auto bursts for suppression.

>>29177330
/thread

To sustain a level of violence and allow friendlies to maneuver around the target.

third position on the giggle switch is for counter ambush and inside buildings.

because ur gay

Because now the average infantry soldier has optics.

>>29177374
The switch was made before optics were common. Full automatic fire for a rifle is a feature of extreme niche usefulness and not really nessesary. It was taken away from most US soldiers with the A2 with the "compromise" of a half assed burst fire mode, though I don't know of anybody who ever actually used burst. For practical purposes, rifles never leave semi. The beltfeds do the auto work.

>>29177431
M16A2/4 and M4's burst sear is fucking garbage. If a burst cycle doesn't finish. Then it wont' fire on burst again until you cycle the weapon once or twice manually or flip it to semi and back to burst.

Fix that or go back to FA and train soldiers better.

>>29177461
I'm not arguing with you. I would rather have a nice trigger that wasn't able to do anything but semi, honestly (this is actually the reason I'm most excited for M4A1 triggers, not for full auto, but for better semi triggers). But the point being that anything other than semi on rifles is niche in the first place.

>>29177496
What about a quad burst that fires a 12 gage shotgun shell on the fourth bullet?

>>29177431
How about urban warfare and room clearing?
I suppose that's where the advantage of the FA feature of M4A1 really comes into play.

>>29177514
"Gauge"

>>29177522

you still fire in bursts. so you don't accidentally a friendly or non combatant.

>>29177514
>underage and retarded: the post

>>29177522
Rapid semi auto is where it is for close quarters. Done a lot and never felt restricted by semi. And I've shot/practiced with full auto rifles and SMGs for comparison.

>>29177555
What about a burst fire weapon that shoots a round then a 12 gauge and then a grenade to make up for the loss of accuracy after each shot?

>>29177538
>>29177558
Yeah i didn't mean magdumping 30 rounds FA, but i had the impression that sustained burst of 6-7 rounds would be more effective and "safe" for hitting targets in cqbs for the average enlisted.
I don't actually know but it seemed common sense.

>>29177688
Didn't think you meant magdumping. But even with the low 5.56mm recoil, accuracy is much better in semi than auto bursts. It is also easier to keep track of when you're going low on rounds and you need to reload less, which is good.

Also to get off close quarters, the majority of fighting is being able to lay down effective suppressive fire. It looks easy, but there is an art to it, and rapid semi allows for better suppressive fire than auto at any sort of decent range.

>>29177461
>M16A4 must finish burst before firing again
Bullshit. Never had that happen to me. Ditto with the M4. Yes I have fired both on burst.

>>29177759
So is the designated marksman responsible for most of the kills in each squad? Or is it the SAW gun guy?

>>29177841
Arty and CAS.

>>29177841
Disregarding CAS/CAA and sticking to just pure infantry tactics, kills come from rifles, but it's done en masse. The fundamentals of fire and maneuver rely on this. You can google and YouTube this, but in short, the most basic tactic for any situation is an L-shaped assault. You have a base of fire with rifles and beltfed GPMGs. You have a different element move in with rifles and you do lift & shift. The assault elements on the move is best served with semi auto because they are on the move, the suppression element needs to lay down continuous fire which means semi rifles. The majority of the casualties will come from the rifles in the assault element- presuming the enemy doesn't run or try to do something cute allowing the suppression element to rek them. That's just the basics though.

DMs are niche. DMs are good when the combat is at *extreme* range beyond the effective reach of rifles or when the unit with DMs has the advantage and takes the target by surprise. In pitched infantry combat, a DM is less useful than a service rifle in aiding maneuver.

>>29177850
You know what I mean, If you didn't count those. I would assume it's the designated marksman seeing as he has the better gun and better marksmanship out of anybody in his squad but idk? That's why I'm asking.

>>29178005
First thing, never heard of an actual "Designated Marksman" position or billet in any USMC unit. There is a "Designated Marksman" school we can go to, but I've never heard of any sort of official position by that name (excluding various fiction sources and online). So since there is no position within a squad by the name, it would default to the machine gunner as those are actually in squads.

Either way, >>29177960 is right. For infantry there isn't really a "king of killers" as far as weapons are concerned. Most of the kills in war are from arty and CAS.

>>29178263
In the Army there is/was an official designated marksman position as part of the modified Afghansitan TO&E. It was a platoon asset. In any case, even in the USMC, if somebody has what would be considered a DMR and is used as such, does having the title or not change how they are used?

Still though there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding of DM role in this thread.

>>29178005
DM weapons are a niche weapon, meant to supplement the sections ability to engage targets at longer ranges than can be practically done with assault rifles and to take shots at high value targets when practical

Its not a battle winner on its own, its just there to round out the sections abilities

>>29177306
Because the burst function is stupid.

Average infantryman carries 210 rounds. That's not a lot. Every shot counts.

>>29178304
I've heard of guys using "DMR" weapons but we didn't have any in the armory for my unit so I assume it must be special snowflake units (recon and etc). Closest would be the sniper teams. They had a couple M110s. They weren't part of the squad proper but they would tag along if command felt they needed to. Usually didn't. Snipers usually did their own thing.

I will say that some guys are using M27's for the Designated Marksman course right now. At least that's what a buddy in 3/8 is telling me. And my unit had gotten bunch of them just prior to me getting out. Though it is supposedly going to replace the SAW rather than the M16.

>>29178352
Weird. Average combat load for Canadians is 10 mags (300 rounds), plus more on strippers for rebombing.

>>29178451
do Canadians carry belts for their SAW?

>>29178402
I think 10th Mountain uses them, but the units that keep them in their inventories are few and far between.

>>29178402
Army had DMs specifically with EBRs. Integrated in the platoons. No sniper nonsense or allusions, they were 11b troops and acted like it with the exception of being used when directed to provide more precise fire.

Of course combat is messy and unusual. Most of the kills I personally know of with the last infantry unit I was attached to came from SMAW-D or LAW rounds. Because once an insurgent was pinned down the platoon LT gave no fucks about spamming explosvie weapons at them.

>>29177461
supposedly the army is going back to FA, but that hasn't been implemented yet

>>29178527
M4A1 trigger kits for all has been reported by the ArmyTimes. Of course not enough people realize that paper is rumormill trash.

>>29177365
this guy gets it

>>29178484
Not sure what you mean by "sniper nonsense". I don't mean "look guise I gots a sniper rifle like in COD!!", I mean guys who are actually 0317's.

But yeah, Army and Marines do things different.

>>29178527
>>29178561
When I got out we were getting a bunch of M4's from the Army because they were replacing all of their M4s with M4A1's.

>>29178630
I meant guys with allusions of being "snipers". They didn't run around in ghille suits or anything. They acted like infantrymen and worked the same, just in a team with a close hookup to the PLT and would fire especially as directed. They usually only carried 4 mags instead of 7, so they were more point fire and less suppression, otherwise they were infantry.

As for the M4A1s, the supposed plan is that current M4s are to be retrofitted with A1 triggers, not the Army buying brand new rifles. Haven't seen hide or hair of that plan, so I guess you all just got old M4s while we bought new M4s of the same make.

>>29178712
Ah, okay. Sound like good guys.

Fuck, I don't know what they're going to do with the M4's. Like I said, I'm out now. And hell, when I was in we didn't know if the M27 would replace the SAW or not and now my buddy is telling me that guys are using it for the Designated Marksman course. I think the whole weapon procurement plan is a cluster fuck.

>>29177610
lets add a device that calls in a Tomahawk just to make sure that the squirrel in the bush is dead enough

>>29178784
Well that is what happens when your main plan is 'wait until the Army is done with it'.

>>29177688
not sure how 'muricans train, but in FDF it's double-shot in the chest or one in the chest and one in the head, if that doesn't stop your target, burst probably wouldn't either.

>>29177461
Yep, trigger needs to be held down to complete the burst cycle, if incomplete the sear will trip the 2nd or third round for a partial burst/single shit the next time trigger is pulled.
To be fair every M4 I've ever shot on burst dumped 3 rounds fast enough for it to not really matter

>>29178870
Can't help it. USMC just gets the scraps left over by the Navy. If we need more funding we need to convince the powers that be that the Navy needs more money to give to us. Pretty bullshit IMO.

Besides, the Army keeps running rigged tests for new weapons they won't even adopt after blowing away the competition in the rigged test.

>>29178878
USMC Failure Drill is two to the chest and then one to the head or "pelvic girdle" (read: dick shot).

>>29178919
What I would then argue is that the US really doesn't need two entirely separate branches for land combat, one nested inside the Navy no less. That's more an overall structure issue though.

>>29178945
Not really. I was trying to point out that the USMC plan is based off of their lack of funds. While the Army is rolling cash, enough so that they can waste money on stupid tests that result in nothing. Honestly I think the Army should take some serious budget cuts. Those fucks waste too much money on damn tests, buying a dozen different kinds of camo, and all sorts of other bullshit. Then the Marines could probably get some gear that isn't second hand shit. I think we really need some better financial management in the other branches.

>>29179015
Like I said, I ended up talking about a very different issue. Everything as it is now, the USMC does not get enough support or funding for the size of the role it's expected to take.

>>29179030
Hell, with sequestration and more looming budget cuts none of the branches will be able to do a good job. At least with how things are being ran now. Too much chaos and too many brush wars are going on and there will be more to come. American can't be the 911 force forever. Not unless we devote more resources to the military. Eh, getting off topic anyway. Plus I got work in the morning.

>>29178933
I have practiced that as well a few times, but mostly two in the chest, I guess our military trusts 7.62x39mm to pack enough punch that two shots in the chest will stop a man wearing body armor for long enough for a properly aimed shot.

>>29177306
they just load one round into the chamber manually at a time because that's more reliable and cheaper than using a magazine

>>29177330
Wrong.

>>29178352
>>29178451
way back in the day it was six mags or 180 rounds in Finnish Army, then it was dropped to 90 rounds (the "bat belt" used back then had pockets for three magazines, so with 180 rounds three mags were not easily accessible), not sure what the current ration is.

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>>29177306
We don't call it full retard just because it's a quote from a movie, anon.

>>29179217
which part?

>>29179217
Enlighten us, oh master of military doctrine.

What ever happened with 3 round burst?

>>29179015
>budget cut army

>Not navy

LEAVE THE ARMY ALLOOONNNEEE

>>29179312
Navy's gonna have to scare the Chinks off from those islands and Ivan away from the north pole.

>>29179015
USMC is rolling in cash but they choose not to spend any in the small arms department.

A single F-35B or 2 ospreys is more than the entire annual small arms budget.

>>29179298
It exists. It is almost never used because it's dumb.

>>29179217
XCOM isn't real life anon

>>29179030
the USMC gets tons of shit, they choose to spend all their budget on fucking transport helicopters
thats their choice

>>29179217
Please, go on.

>>29178933
That's why Marines are so obsessed with dicks. We're infatuated with them. We draw them on everything. To everybody else we just look like a bunch of fags but in reality we're staying focused on our targets. The bigger the better. Always keeping one eye closed so we don't get blinded when we send our load downrange. No, wait......We closely study man sized targets to keep distances in perspective. A miniature target is no good, the bigger the better because we want to be up close and personal, because y'know, hand to hand is what it's all about. Um......wait, that didn't sound right. There's nothing we value more than good marksmanship so missing a guys dick is the worst thing imaginable. No, wait, that's not what I meant. What I meant to say is shoot straight or we have to call in Arty to blow it u.....aww fuck it. Semper Fi.

>>29180032
'RAHHH!!!!

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This might sound like a dumb question but why don't they put a legit bolt action guy in each squad to act as the dmr guy? I mean they could give him sort of a budget sniper and train him to shoot with that? I own a Ruger American .308 and I can take pretty damn accurate shots at 800 yards and that's a dirt cheep gun with a decent scope on it. I mean I get snipers need special training but all these guys would need it the accuracy part and basically after than just trained like any other normal soldiers? I mean I'm not sure but dmr guys get additional marksmanship training anyways? I'm not implying they send guys out there with the Rugar American btw it's just an example?

>>29180188
DMs are not snipers, they don't engage targets from 1000 yards, and they most certainly don't want to operate the bolt after each shot. Why do you think people keep saying "SVD isn't a sniper rifle, it's a DM rifle"?

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>>29177306
>>29179239
more importantly, why can't I, as a civilian, have the same option to go full retard as the military?
A terri can pop up anywhere, any time; I'm no soldier, it might take bursts/ a mag dump to get the job done.

>>29180188
Because in combat you want semi auto instead of bolt action. DMs are infantrymen and as such they are integrated into infantry platoons and part of normal infantry combat. They would not benefit from the mild accuracy advantage of a bolt vs a semi.

Even recon units use M110s more than bolt actions.

>>29180239
>>29180264
I see a lot of combat footage though where guys are being ambushed and guys are taking pop shots at them from quite a distance away. In fact those are most of the videos I watch. I've not been in actual combat so I wouldn't know but I'd think you'd want a guy who can take accurate long range fire in those situations right?

>>29180284
Well... Then you have a semi auto DM. Having a semi auto DM is accurate enough for those edge cases while still not behind dead weight in general combat.

Also, in most of those videos, the exact position of the shooter was probably unknown. In which case the reaction is to suppress their general area with mass rifle and have a different element move closer. Having a super duper accurate sniper rifle doesn't do much good if you don't know where exactly the enemy is, and don't have the luxury of time to find out.

>>29180261
You can. It just takes a $200 tax stamp, $20,000 - $30,000 to buy the FA weapon of your choice, and you're free to blow through $30 worth of ammo every 10 seconds all day long.

>>29180318
Yea I guess you're right.

>>29180284
if you have enemies taking pot shots at you from >800 yards you call in indirect fire, CAS or a sniper because your .308 bolt-action won't be any more accurate beyond that point than a .308 semi-auto, and in shorter ranges the difference isn't big enough to matter so semi-auto suits well for the task, the same can't be said about a bolt-action in, say, 100 feet to 100 yard distances where you'll be wanting a self-loading weapon with sights you can use for rough aiming, and DM may well find themselves in such a situation.

>>29180382
Yea I didn't think about that.

>>29177306
they dont. M4s have select fire, troops just trained to fire single because its more accurate and doesnt waste ammo

>>29180479
also, a semi-auto DMR doesn't *have to* be a million dollar contract rifle/refurbished battle rifle, a semi-auto hunting rifle would suffice, but I haven't seen many designs intended for hunting aside from some civilian versions of military rifles (.22s don't count), what market there might have been for semi-auto hunting rifles was filled by milsurp pretty quickly.

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>>29180336
fuck that, I'm a goddamn American with a right to bear arms. it literally couldn't be more clear that I am an unrestricted possessor of arms.

>>29177306
Because with .45ACP you only need one shot to kill anything.

>>29180604
I've survived multiple shots with a .45 acp.

>>29177514
lolwut

>>29177306
Because we found out during Robert Macnamara's Great Southeast Asian Firepower Experiment that everybody going full auto wastes ammo and doesn't get the job done. Rapid aimed semi auto fire is how you kill people.

>>29180604
>>29180612

Anyone got that "45 stoppin powa" Terminator gif?

>>29180612

>PLEASE OH PLEASE ASK ME FOR THE STORY!!!!!

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>>29180665
/rummages

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>>29180682
Well since you asked so nicely.
>Walking down Compton avenue with thousands of money's hanging out my pockets
>hear noise behind me
>turn around, see what I can only describe as a gang member thug hybrid
>says give me all that cash "BOYYY"
>I of course say fuck off nerd
>he than proceeds to unload a clip of .45 acp into my body
>I full of adrenalin don't go down so easy I yell not today Donky Kong and hit him with my brass knuckles in the face.

Long story short the guy was actually a hacker terrorist wanted by president Obama himself but they couldn't prove him guilty since he was always doing his hacking on incognito mode. The ambulance was able to keep me alive and I still never use .45 acp to this day because of the bad memories it brings back.

I never kicked my M4 into full auto during my career. Only time I've found a good time to do that would've been when I'm in a gun team and laying down suppressive fire while the M240 reloads. The gunners usually were quick enough not to warrant it.

>>29178919
That's them servicing the MiC.

We'd have adopted the FAL along time ago if it weren't for that. Among, hundreds of other things. Like the Ferret.

>>29180688
bravo sir

>>29180841
You dipshit, homie shot you with 9mm, that's why you're ok and still in tact.
45ACP would have just left your boots smoking on the floor where you used to be.