Are people getting too smart to fight wars?

>>28420398
>Implying that they'd actually get to do any fighting during emperor obama's peacetime.

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>>28420398

There will always be stupid people to volunteer for the military anon.

>>28420398
More and more people these days dont see in point in wanting to die for a country that doesnt care about them in some bullshit war they don't believe in.

>>28420507
>engineers
>pilots
>nuclear engineers
>in depth repair/rework facilities
>implying all bottom dregs of IQ spectrum.

Not saying their isn't retards who join, but a good portion of jobs require actual skill/knowledge.

>>28420545
"engineers" in the military don't do actual engineer work. They are more like carpenters,mechanics and technichians. All are pretty easy occupations that even low IQ's can perform.

>>28420545

Those people are just stupid in a different way: actually believing they are fighting for their country.

The main drawback with the military is the drawback. I spend anywhere from 4 to 20 years of me in my prime in foreign lands fighting when I won't be having a family.
Back then, a high school diploma was as good as a community college degree and being in the military was a godsend.

Nowadays, unless you're in tech or anything heavy like that, you can't find all that much when you get out.

Maybe in euro countries, but they haven't really been jingoistic since WW2 and most of them never had the same kind of military idolatry as the US does. In the US there hasn't been a shortage of willing recruits in decades.

>>28420597
What the hell happened there?

*The main drawback is being away from home. You...

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>>28420398
Pretty much universally known
>pic related
isnt worth dying for. No one feels like the future of this guys life, or the people he represents is worth being blown open on the side of a sandy road.

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>>28420398
It's not that there getting "smarter"
It's that there getting fucking bored of the shitty sandbox. We've been killing jihad Johnny and his buddies for It least three decades. Its time for a new warfront, i.e. Russia.

>>28420674
honestly, would the Holy American Empire even stand a chance against Russia on their turf?

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>>28420398

>gif made me mad...

I have no problem with hunting non-endangered dumb animals fr fun, food or anything but elephants... They are very intelligent and endangered. Why would anyone do that?

>>28420507
Believe it or not, the military is on average better educated and smarter than the national average.

Knowing how many dumb people are in the military makes the public genuinely scary.

Anyway, there are basically 3 demographics in the US military.
1. upper-middle-class whites who form the officers and a big chunk of combat-arms enlisted
2. hispanics and lower-class whites who round out the rest of combat arms, plus the trades-type enlisted jobs
3. blacks in zero-effort enlisted jobs. For some reason tons of them are Masons.

The first group adds a disproportionate quantity of the smart people, because they're often there out of some antique warrior-mentality shit. Often they took a pay cut to do it. The others are basically average, there for a salaried job, with the worst of the retards weeded out.

Add extra intelligence and rip out the worst morons who you'd normally never meet IRL, and you get the army. The ancient Prussian hierarchical organization demotivates everyone even further.

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>not wanting to get paid to operate

more that globalists run shit, and don't want big wars to happen

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>>28420734
>operate

>>28420717
That particular elephant was a very destructive and aggressive bull. It raped/killed every Rhino it saw and crushed the head of a child. It had to be put down

>>28420674
More like Taiwan and Vietnam if Trump gets elected.

Push the Chinks shit around until they stop currency manipulation and blocking our imports, watch as their economy collapses

>seems these days no one is joining the military anymore with the intentions of fighting for their country. .

fighting for what and against whom? my fellow countrymen for the most part disgust me and im not fighting a foreign enemy to protect people like the kardashians or that pajama fag. i have no qualms with any foreign nations and no desire to upset their way of life.

one day a real rain will come and wash the scum off the streets etc.

>>28420734
It's peacetime now. Only SF operate. And maybe intel and drone guys attached to SF, if you can call that operating.

Infantry? Get mad or get sad, those are your options fuccboi.

Personally I drink a lot and dream about my previous deployments.

>>28420717
Elephants are not endangered. Indian elephants maybe, but not African elephants.

>>28420398
Its an issue of not wanting to fight for a cause you don't believe in. Personally I'm more than willing to fight when jihad johnny or whoever else comes knocking and I can engage without any legal ramifications, but I'm not going to risk my life in some 3rd world shithole for people that would sooner throw their own feces at me than offer a "thank you".

Worst part is with every conflict since the 50's, there's no payoff for success. Its just a bunch of lives and resources thrown into the abyss with nothing left to show for it than a budget deficit and a bunch of paychecks for therapists specializing in PTSD.

>>28420717
small dick and not giving a fuck

i wouldn't fight for my country because there are things owed to me, such as my woman they stole, and my career.

this could all be made up for if they'd let me wrestle rahm emanuel, but i've yet to see that happen.

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>>28420702
Probably not.
But that's the point anon.
Beautifuly scorched Slav land littered with craters and mass graves.

>>28421283
>implying those mass graves won't be filled with burger

>>28420768

This. Our true enemies are fellow citizens.

>>28420674
>there
>there
here's your registration papers, sign here

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>>28421300
>Damn right cause Russia is better. They have better cars better planes better jobs better guns better science better shoes better butter. Communism would totally work if people would just do it right and there was no corruption. I remember my prof told us when he was studying abroad how better it was better then hurrdurr burgerstan.

Don't ever change /k/.

>>28421373
>getting this mad at reality

>>28421416
So I'm right they have better butter? Packin my fuckin bags son.

>>28420702

America would steamroll Russia desu

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>>28421373
> Go to war with nation known to repel foreign invaders.

> yfw Russkies kicked European and Kebab ass alike back when the USA was nothing but a wet dream.

Guess who also had the most powerful military back then? the Swedes and French under napoleon and they where still beaten by a bunch of iliterate peasant slavs.

>>28420398
>Sad day for elephant. Always kinda liked them.

There's no point in joining the military these days unless you want something out of it. Realistically, we have no serious threat in the world. We have the two largest armed forces in the world. The United States Military, and the American Population.
Joining for anything but combat is probably someone chasing government pay or college education - combat troops are either lifers, future contractors, or stupid.

>>28421493
>what is baggage train?

>>28421493
Yes yes I know I've played risk too sweetheart.

>>28421300
I never said they wouldn't be.
Everyone's shit would get pushed In beyond belief, we'll make WWII look like child's play.
>>28421356
Done and done anon.
Where's my complimentary hand grenade?

>>28420545
I dunno, I've met quite a few "professionals" who lacked any common sense and didn't perform the way you'd expect them to.

>>28420398
well theres a diminishing sense of country. do you really feel patriotic putting your life on the line for a bunch of freeloading hondurans, mexicans, guatemalans, and somalis who have no concept or intention of assimilation into american society?

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>>28421515
>>28421517
>>28421530

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>>28420398
You've been on this board, right?
And you ask if people are getting too smart?

>>28421498
What if I want to be in the military my whole life and do contracts and I'm actually dumb?
When can I be a merc?

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Civilians have fundamentally misunderstood what the military is for. Militaries are necessary because without a big stick to back up words diplomacy is empty, and normal political solutions often break down in the real world and so there must be an apparatus for projecting force when politics must be conducted by other means. The military, intelligence agencies, and overlapping layers of law enforcement allows society to be functional because they create a set of protected conditions under which civilian institutions can function.

Notice the popularity of philosophies these days among both the Right and the Left that de-emphasize the idea of personal service and sacrifice? From Ayn Rand spouting Libertarians to slacktivist hashtag slinging Liberals, everybody wants to reap the fruits of civilization without putting any skin the game. They don't want to personally risk or sacrifice anything, and they don't view it as damaging to their credibility to eat on the collective dime of those who do sacrifice.

One common excuse is "I don't want to die for a war I don't believe in/that isn't right." That's not a failure of the military, the failure is with the political class. The Citizens vote for shit politicians who have never served in the military. They avoid being engaged in politics and being informed critical thinkers. The poor performance of voters leads to poor elected officials, and those poor elected officials get us into the unjust wars.

Tl;dr: The failings of the citizenry and the elite are reflected in the problems that they perceive with the military. Lying elites don't see the need to be credible leaders. Spoiled and weak minded citizens reject the virtues of discipline and service.

>>28422195

pro-tip: starship troopers is fiction

>>28422274

Pro-tip: Fiction is an ideal vehicle for expressing certain ideas, and Heinlein wasn't wrong.

>>28420597
>I won't be having a family
See, here's the catch. Assuming you survive in a usable shape, you retire pretty early, and pretty well endowed (free education etc.). Since you were smart enough to survive, you've actually made some pretty smart friends, too. Then, "you are who you know" comes into effect.

A lot of ex-military I know are a few notches above the general population, as far as IQ, wealth and social status are concerned.

Oh, and at this time you are much smarter than you were in your 20s, and can choose a better female (you're a very eligible bachelor now - see above). You're no longer blinded by your hormones.

But then again, if you're not smart or not fit, you're either dead or crippled.

>>28420702
(having seen Russia from inside) absolutely, as far as military strength is concerned. Russian army is rotten to the core.

However, US troops will probably start committing suicide en masse after seeing how retarded the general population is (alternatively, they may die laughing their asses off). No chance of successful sustained presence.

Truth be told, though, general US population is not that bright, either.

>>28422195
what this nigger said.

>>28421458
>butter
They actually do, not so much for cars. Once you try Vologodskoe creamery butter you'll never go back.

>>28422195
>Militaries are necessary because without a big stick to back up words diplomacy is empty, and normal political solutions often break down in the real world and so there must be an apparatus for projecting force when politics must be conducted by other means.

...which US totally failed to do when Russia violated the Budapest Memorandum.

Now everyone knows what US' word is worth. Or, rather, the current running office's.

>>28422195
>The military, intelligence agencies, and overlapping layers of law enforcement allows society to be functional because they create a set of protected conditions under which civilian institutions can function.

The United States functioned perfectly fine in the first half of its existence without any of that stupid shit. And arguably the civilian institutions were far less dysfunctional back then.

Blaming the people for the criminality of the political class and the dumb military animals who serve them is the lie of manufactured consent: the notion that consent is granted by the entirety of the people when being forced to choose between war pig A and war pig B, even if half the people didn't vote at all.

>>28422459

We have weak core civilian leadership. That's perfectly in line with my assertions.

>>28422531

You're wrong. The first six families to possess a million dollar fortune at the nation's founding were mostly pirates and privateers who took their seed money by the sword. [source: Wealth and Democracy] At the time the United States Navy was considered to be among the most professional by their contemporaries.

>>28422605
> The first six families to possess a million dollar fortune at the nation's founding were mostly pirates and privateers who took their seed money by the sword

That is relevant to civilian institutions how? If the US Navy today was actually focused on protecting trade routes (i.e. they don't need a dozen carriers), then you might have a point. Moreover the US had practically a non-existent military until WW1, and yet it prospered with all the niceties of civil society. How is that possible?

By the way the first multi-millionaire in this nation is John Jacob Astor, and he made his fortune without any sort of war profiteering (although he did slightly benefit from protectionist laws passed by Congress).

>>28420744
>MEDDAC

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>>28422695
>operate

>>28420785
>African Elephants are not endangered

While your technically right, they are listed as Vulnerable by the IUCN Red List.

>>28422678

The Astor family was one of the six. Along with a Dutch family iirc. The other four though were pirates and privateers. Astor was discovered to have payed something like 20k to a particular governor among numerous other bribes long after they had both died. Interesting history.

>He's never heard of the Shoddy Aristocracy

War profiteering kicked off before the end of the war of 1812. Seriously, look it up.

>The US Navy needed carrier aircraft in the age before airplanes and wooden fucking ships

You're making false equivocations. Also the US Navy primarily does defend global trade routes today along with projecting force.

>Had a practically non-existent military until WW1

What was that whole civil war thing? And I forget, how did Hawaii become a State? Oh, and remind me of how the Phillipines came into US hands? Hey, whoever slaughtered the Indians back in the day?

>>28421972
at least you have the dumb part down.

>>28422740
>implying the US became an economic power off the backs of war profiteers

Then explain why the great economic boom started well after the Civil War and was almost exclusively in the Northern states, ergo the US could have split with the Confederates and the boom would still have occurred.

>pirates and profiteers

Still not seeing any sort of relevance of this to the supposed necessity of the military for civil society.

>Also the US Navy primarily does defend global trade routes today along with projecting force.
>we need 12 carriers for this shit

Almost all critics of militarism don't want to entirely abolish the military, only to scale it back to a sane size with sane goals.

>What was that whole civil war thing?

It was exactly that, and the military was downsized back to its minuscule size afterwards. At the beginning of WW1 the US military was sized 17th in the world with basically zero combat experience.

>Hawaii
>Phillipines
>Indians

Moves of highly dubious economic value. Colonization is expensive. Trade is cheap. Just ask the Brits.

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>>28420717
What are you even doing on this board unless its that stupid /ak/ shit

>>28422829

>obfuscation, deliberate misinterpretation of the discussion, defense of the succession of the Confederacy, advocacy for isolationism, and sliding goalposts

You resort to these tactics because you know that you're wrong.

>boom in North

Wealth in the former Confederacy was reduced from being at parity with the North to being the same gap between a Germanic free citizen and a Russian serf before the boom even kicked in.

>pirates and profiteers

It relates to the United States emphasizing the capture of war prizes abroad and general turning of the economy in those days.

>Secession apologetics
I won't do this the dignity of a real response.

>Deflections about colonialism

You made the claim that prior to WW1 we didn't have intelligence agencies and military clout that we utilized in our foreign policy goals. Hawaii's government was deposed by the Office of Naval Intelligence. The Philippines were taken by the armed forces along with a few other territorial possessions. The Indians were genocided by the US Army.

Your obfuscation and attempts to ooze your way out of acknowledging refutations of your previous claims without sound answer tells me all that I need to know about the sincerity of your position. It's like this:

>We're arguing about pasta
>I think linguini is good
>You retort that spaghetti is better and that linguini has never been good
>I mention recipes that call for sauces that work better with linguini than spaghetti
>You ask what sauces have to do with Italian agriculture in an attempt at misdirection

Your position is either indefensible or you defend it insincerely, but rather than acknowledge this you fall back to cheap rhetoric.

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>>28420545
You are recognised as a god among men if you score higher than 60 on your ASVAB

>>28422937
>make extraordinary claim that the military and successive layers of law enforcement are a prerequisite for civil society
>doesn't even come close to proving any of this

Face it, this nation's wealth was built off trade and industrialism, things that hardly require the sort of hyper-militarism that you call for.

>defense of the succession of the Confederacy

Seriously? I said, the Civil War could have never occurred and the North would have experienced an economic boom. As in, the North could have told the South to have it all. That's not a defense of any sort. To put it simply: the civil war did not spark any sort of economic boom.

>Your obfuscation and attempts to ooze your way out of acknowledging refutations of your previous claims without sound answer tells me all that I need to know about the sincerity of your position. It's like this:

I'm saying none of those things were necessary for civil society or even good for the American economy. Your claim is that all of that was essential for civil institutions to function. Listing off random acquisitions and the Indian genocide doesn't prove your claim at all.

>>28422829
>scale it back
How far back though? Because if we're talking Euro-tier then that's a laughable idea.