Vietnam thread

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>>28377532
Pretty sure M113 crewmen had the highest rate of casualties for vehicles.

>Hey guys, I just had a great idea
>What?
>What if, and jest stay with me here, what if we took something so under armored man portable MG's can blow through it, and we filled it with people before sending it into a low visibility mine and rocket infested jungle?
>Fuck man, what could go wrong?

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Vietnam had the coolest fucking Operator guns.

>TFW all I want is a select fire stubby grip CAR15 607A with that useless suppressor muzzle device.
That gun would never stop being fun

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>>28377654
>Alternate view, buttstock retracted with a full sized grip

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>>28377532
Gonna post one more image and then go to bed, guess there isn't much of an interest in Vietnam today.

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>>28377654
>>28377668
I'm here, one day I'll probably make an xm177 clone. /k/'s a relatively slow board, especially when there's others just shitposting on other threads

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>>28377749
Actually, two or three more, first, Note the fucking UZI. That is cool as fuck.

>Vietnam had all kinds of sweet guns, ranging from ultra-futuristic CAR15 607 models, to old as shit M2 Carbines that were cut down to enforcer sized pistols. There was also everything in-between, UZI and M3 SMG's, revolvers that shot silenced buckshot ammo for tunnel rats, fucking everything.

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>>28377777
I'll post some vietnam era guns from my seal folder

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>>28377768
Nice, I was going to make a 607 clone but I ran out of money. That stock is a bitch.

>>28377777
The execution following that image.
>Most libshits assume this was a war crime.
>In fact, the man about to be shot was a murderer and this is a summary execution for killing a family.

xm607's are so boss. They're so boss I had to build one. Good luck finding the stock though, $500+ if you can even find one. Thats my excuse for leaving mine as a pistol.

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>>28377788
Coolest shit came out of that war.

This is the silent revolver I mentioned in >>28377777

>http://world.guns.ru/handguns/double-action-revolvers/usa/qspr-silent-revolver-e.html

Fucking integrally suppressed shotgun ammunition.

>>28377814
I want one of those revolvers for CC so fucking bad.

>A wild mugger appears.
>You use sub sonic suppressed tungsten balls five times
>It's super effective, nobody is alerted

Why was this not a gun in MGS3?!

>>28377864
Looks like a fucking mask.

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I'm going to stop and work on getting all of the engraved zippo lighters in one pic.

>>28377654
I think the suppressors other purpose was to help increase the backpressure so it cycled reliably. We all know how well the dissipators worked out

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>>28377918
Yeah, it was just a booster. But the ATF calls it a suppressor.

>Internals of the later version.

>>28377884
It is, anon...

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Soldiers looked so fucking badass in Vietnam. They didn't even have to try, it just came naturally.

>>28377974
That's creepy as shit, don't spook me like that.

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>>28377982
It's a combination of everyone being fit as fuck and those sweet sweet OD greens.

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>>28377532

>>28378032
>That rifle has the weirdest boner

I love the late 60's-mid 80's, all that shit being put together in the field because there is no after market.
>Some crazy fucker that could TIG weld was responsible for so much great stuff

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is this ok to post first indochina war?

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>>28378032
>Dat extendo clipazine

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>>28378012
>went to the seal museum and the marine corps museum in parris island a while ago
>mfw all kinds of perfectly functional stoners, m60's, type 56's, china lakes and rpk's

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>>28378032
Fn fal. Found this beauty at my lgs bargain bin. Works like a charm 42 rounds.

>>28378076
>tfw you will never go hunting for Vietcong with a Starlight scope on a suppressed M1A

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we posting extendos?

Vietnam was a horrible mistake, but it was the last big US war not fought with an all-voluntary mercenary army. It was the peoples war back home too and it created the greatest pop-culture icons in warfare ever. There are no immediately recognizable generational songs written about Kuwait, Iraq or Afghanistan. No real touch to the war outside the closed military community. No helmet texts, no shared pain, no common experience. Maybe we failed in Vietnam, but at least we were there together.

>>28378103

And it was the last war with out fat chairforce pogs getting a veteran status out of smelling their own farts inside the wire.

>>28378103
>No real touch to the war outside the closed military community.

this is bullshit.

Thread theme song.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=40JmEj0_aVM

>>28378103
>an all-voluntary mercenary army.

Do you know what a mercenary is you stupid fucker?

>but at least we were there together.

Yeah the country really pulled together in Vietnam.

>>28377982
Just as an FYI, those are how clips of 5.56mm come packaged. Those bandoleers were designed to be double purpose to hold magazines. Military ammo still comes packed like that, but nobody uses those bandoleers these days because we've got better loadbearing gear. Super neat whenever it's actually seen in use in
Vietnam though. Shows how far gear has come.

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You guys should really read Vietnam magazine, some of the articles in there are cool as fuck. I have like 6 issues in .pdf form, I could upload them somewhere if anyone wants them.

>>28378154

Mercenary for me is a non-conscript/-drafted soldier fighting an overseas war involuntarily.

>>28378125

>with out

Learn to spell before you start criticizing branches while not being in the military

>TACP,Pararescue,Convoy Security, OSI is not going outside the wire on a consistent basis.

>>28378168
>Asks for an M16
>There is an M16 under his ass

>>28377654

Why does it have such a stubby grip?

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>>28378168
I'm just posting some snippets of the articles. This one is about the first use of smart bombs in combat to destroy a vital bridge. The things they tried before smart bombs finally took it down are quite remarkable to say the least...

>>28378191
It was a pilot's self defense weapon and had to fit into a cockpit.

>>28378191
For compact operating. It's a holdover from a survival rifle and a vehicle weapon variant of the CAR15. They decided against it but it still looks cool as shit.

>>28378171

>For me

Too bad you can't retool definitions while romanticizing the Vietnam era.

>faggot boomers complaining about going to war unlike the Korea WWII generations before them
>A good part of the enlisted core acting like babies and resorting to drug use and war crimes
>"we keep treating the locals like shit? Why oh way are they supporting the North Vietnam government?'
>Faggots throwing their medals away to impress some weed smoking whores
>Any person in the military trying to make an effort while in-country was spat on when they came home

Fucking wonderful time. The current generation of Soldiers suck so hard.

>>28378171
The proper definition is someone who voluntarily fights for a foreign nation.

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>Nam thread

Fuck yeah! Posting Nam-era operators


Remember kids, these old timers will be the first ones to tell you that today's operators are fitter, smarter, better equipped, and all around more effective. But these men were the innovators, and they had balls and grit that simply could not be equalled.

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>>28378218

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>>28378226

>>28378218
Today's operators are better trained and better equipped because of lessons learned by these guys.

A lot of rifle and maneuver techniques can be directly traced back to these guys. They really did have it harder.

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>>28378233
Any SOG guy would tell you that he had never seen men with more guts than the Yards and the Nungs

>>28378238
Bingo. Today's boys can outmaneuver and outshoot them any day, but only because the old guys laid the foundation. Which is probably why they get so much respect.

>>28377943
Would have the e1 version? That looks like a cutaway e2

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>>28378243
>you will never be this recondo

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>>28378264
Anybody here familiar with Italian Green?

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>>28378271
I know the guys who put this stuff together are just reenactors, but it gives you a good idea of what those SOG guys went through.

Can you imagine humping all this crap through a Cambodian jungle, constantly worrying about running into an NVA battalion?

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>>28378294

>>28377590
Yet there was no issue with ARVN forces using them like tanks.

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>>28378302

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>>28378309

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>>28378321

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>>28378330

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>>28378336

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>>28378258
Only other image I've got

>>28378294
>That cut down M79
Oh got my dick.

>>28378344
>M3 Grease gun

Vietnam was such a glorious cluster fuck of guns, just everything got used there.

>FAL
>M3
>M2
>M16 and variants/predecessors
>Every machine gun imaginable
>1911/BHP/Crazy bullshit silenced shotgun revolvers/all forms of pistol
>Pump action 40mm grenade launchers

What a time to be at war.

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>>28378345
I fucking love that thing.

Christ, your standard SOG recon man carried a ridiculous shitload of firepower

>XM177 w/ 21 magazines

>sidearm, usually an M1911 or Browning Hi-Power

>last resort gun, typically a snubby revolver or Colt pocket pistol

>cut-down M79 w/ 8 rounds of HE and grapeshot

>M67 frags

>M34 WP

>M18 smoke

>CS, concussion, and illum grenades

>Claymore

>M14 toepopper mines

>V40 mini frags

>fixed blade knife

>bolo knife

>two C4 bricks

>M72 LAW

This is a good example of what ONE MAN would be carrying
You know what's cool? That cut-down M79 is actually still in use. DEVGRU guys carry them on occasion as a stand-off weapon, just like SOG did.

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>>28378386
>you will never do recon and sabotage with a Swedish K

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>>28378386
If you like that, get a load of what the SEALs were packing

>>28377779
>not even the dogs were spared the thousand yard stare

>>28377779
He's got a thousand yard stare

>>28378390
I once knew a (Verified) Recon Marine from Nam. Crazy fucker told me two stories I loved.

>Used to carry an old gas mask bag FULL of grenades
>Would lob them in a line at the enemy with a little lag between throws
>The impact would seem like mortar fire being walked in and they would think they were receiving indirect fire, ignoring the possibility of a full recon team in throwing distance

He did say that the mini-frag pissed him off because you get so full of adrenaline in a firefight that you throw them too far.

>Would have his buddy walk point looking for tripwire
>Guy would carry the end of a VERY thin fly fishing pole
>When it bent there was a tripwire in the path (Like a blind man with a walking stick)
>He would then rig the trap to blow if you tried to remove it so when the VC came back to salvage the explosives to use in an area with more troop movement it would kill them

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>>28378405
>you will never HALO drop into Laos with a fucking Uzi

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>>28378439
That first story reminds me of a device that the evil fuckers at SOG and the CIA cooked up. This sucker was called the Nightingale, and there's a funny story attached to it.

In one of John Plaster's books, can't remember which one, he tells the story of a couple of SOG guys who snuck into a large NVA camp in the dead of night, planted one of these things, and set it on a time delay.

Now, the Nightingale is rigged with all sorts of small explosive charges and pyrotechnics. The idea was that it could simulate a firefight and create a diversion. But when this thing went off in the camp, all fucking hell broke loose. SOG was known to the NVA at this point, and feared. They must've thought that a recon team had infiltrated the camp and started shooting up the place.

The men in that camp just shot the shit out each other for about two hours. Observors even saw RPGs going off in there. When it finally died down, the guys who set the device went in to assess the damage. Whole fucking camp was in ruins.

>>28378495
Aaaaand, I just realized that the story I just told is in the pic I posted. Fug.

Oh well. At least I told it semi-correctly.

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>>28378158

Ammo still comes packed like that, now the bandoleers have a cloth string on the bottom that you can pull out and fit 30 round mags into the bandoleers.

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>>28378344

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>>28378523

>>28377779


I didn't sign on for this shit, man.

>>28378530
The fuck is going on with those mags?

>>28377798

I came.

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>>28378530
I've been meaning to get myself one of these Ithacas, but I prefer the LAPD version. Trouble is, I can't seem to fucking find any.

>>28378542
They're 40 round, but they look like they have some sort of sleeve over them

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What are some good books about special forces in Vietnam? Non-fiction ones.

>>28378542

"Homemade" 9001 round mags made by cutting up a standard 20 rounder for the feed lips and then welding up a curved box for the body.

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>>28378544
This almost looks like fun

>>28377814
Absolutely fascinating. Thank you so much

>>28378555
John Plaster has written some good stuff about SOG.

SEAL Warrior is a good one

There are a ton of them honestly.

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>>28378623
About John Plaster. I saw this review on Amazon and kind of got turned off from that SOG book he wrote

>>28378633
You do know that there are a surprising number of guys who go around claiming to have served with SOG right? I'm not saying outright that that guy is full of it, but do you really want to take it on faith that he's not?

>>28378672
http://www.macvsog.cc/sog_hall_of_shame-phonies.htm

For instance, get a load of this. For such an obscure unit, SOG attracts a lot of stolen valor types.


Or, maybe he's right and Plaster is guilty of telling half-truths. But then, there are many veterans who are guilty of the same thing. The dude calling him out might be one of them.

The point I'm trying to get across is that you shouldn't let one guy's uncorroborated story dissuade you like that.

>>28377790
tell me the full story m8

>>28378672
I don't think he's lying. The entire Amazon comments (That have been up for years) nobody has brought up anything that discredits the guy.

>>28378720
Well, that does have some merit, but then again, the amazon comments section probably doesn't receive a plethora of visitors.

Fucked if I know man, I guess I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

>>28378754
I'd rather not spend money and time reading a book where I am always wondering if what I'm reading is really non-fiction

>>28377766
I've heard somewhere that M113 crews were known for hanging swastikas off of their APCs. Wonder if there's a picture of that somewhere.

>>28378709
its probably largely because of cowadookie

>>28378769
Fair point. Having read it though, I can tell you that it's still a pretty good read.

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>>28378495
>>28378509
thats really neato, thanks for sharing, have a hanoi jane

>>28378294

Is... is that a sawn off M79?

>>28378309
Shit I may have to buy an ar7 and suppress it now

>>28378412
Ggggooooddd dddaaammmnn

>>28378308
Then why did they lose the war?

>>28378782

Its bullshit made up for full metal jacket.

M1 crews in Gulf 1 however did often have a framed photo of Rommel for good luck.

>>28378294
>Six rifles and a grenade launcher
That had better be gear for the whole squad, ain't no way I'm humping all that shit thru Cambodia, possibly resupplying the enemy by a power of 6

>>28380101
Why rommel?

>>28380682
Why not rommel?

>>28380682
Because Rommel's tatics are extensively studied by U.S. commanders even today. Patton read Rommel's book and attributed some of his successes to it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanterie_Greift_An

>>28379748
Yes it is indeed.

They were carried as stand-off weapons, clipped to the belt with a D-ring. Ammo was either carried in a bandoleer or a canteen pouch.

Of course, an SOG recon element had a dedicated grenadier with a full size piece and an ammo vest, but hey, no such thing as too much firepower, right?

>>28380101
Platoon is where I saw that actually. Oliver Stone claims that he saw that a few times during the war.

Of course, I don't believe a damn thing he says, so I probably answered my own question before I even asked it, but on the off chance there was anything to it, I figured I'd ask anyway.

>>28380346
One man wouldn't be carrying six rifles of course, but most of the rest of that gear would be carried by one man.

The radio, binoculars, and medical bag would be carried by the RTO, the 1-0, and the medic, respectively.

As for the rest of that stuff? Fill your pockets and load up your ruck, you get the enviable task of humping all of it through the jungle

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>>28379955
What, From Russia with Love wasn't convincing enough?

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>>28381339
>be NVA lieutenant

>pulling security with platoon near Ho Chi Minh trail, searching for American or South Korean commandos

>dead of night, pitch black, coldasfuck.jpg

>tired, not paying attention; step on a twig

>about 20 meters ahead, hear a voice call out

>"CONTACT FRONT!!!"

>followed by hundreds upon hundreds of red tracer rounds and ground illumination grenades

>troops dropping all around

>after 30 seconds, manage to catch "FALL BACK!!!" over all the noise

>thank fuck, at least they're retreating

>cue smoke grenades, baseball grenades, mini grenades, and 40mm rounds, one after the other

>platoon has gone from full to quarter strength inside of one minute

>platoon sergeant manages to regroup survivors and pursue

>platoon sergeant and several others blown to pieces by Claymores and toe popper mines

>mfw


There's hell, and then there's being caught by an SOG immediate action drill

>>28381361
I'm almost positive it was a confederate battle flag in platoon, and it was flown not painted on the side.

I think your memory sucks.

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>>28381830
It looks similar enough to both that it could mistaken for either one of them, but I'm fairly certain that's a Nazi flag

And I never said it was painted on. I said specifically that they hung it off of the APCs.

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>>28381908
That is 100% a nazi flag

>>28381635
>MFW

God damn that would be crazy, you'd be sure you had just pissed off a platoon sized element.

>>28381944
Those crazy bastards would use IA drills to break contact from BATTALION sized elements on occasion.

The idea there was basically to maul its front ranks, then tear ass before they even knew what had hit them.

A former SOG author whose name I can't recall likened it to a bantam weight boxer bloodying a heavyweight's nose with a flurry of rapid punches. It won't put him down, but he sure as shit won't be expecting it, and it'll buy you enough time to get the hell out of there.

>>28382162
Bear in mind also that SOG recon teams sometimes ran heavy.

Basically, what that means is that there are at least 12 men on the team instead of the usual 8, and sometimes as many as 20 or even 40. They were all equipped with much heavier weapons than usual. RPD light machine guns, RPG-7s, even more M79s than usual, LAW rockets, under barrel grenade launchers, even 60mm mortars. All this in addition to the ungodly amount of grenades, mines, and demolitions gear that they usually carried.

Units of this type were referred to as Hatchet Forces, and their whole purpose was pretty much to go out looking for NVA units to destroy.

A regular 8-man recon element can give a battalion sized force a black eye and go into E&E mode before anybody knows what's happening. But a fully loaded Hatchet Force with a plan, good cover, and bit of luck can bring that fucker down to half strength before it comes time to break off and head for the hills.

>>28381635
Lets do some math here. Assuming each man in your typical eight-man recon element was armed with a CAR-15

>8 CAR-15s

>this means 8 20-round mags, each one loaded with 18 rounds to preserve spring tension, and every round in the first mag was a tracer to increase psychological effect

>SOG recon men were trained to fire in three round bursts every second until they had emptied their mags

So, after the contact call goes out, you've got 144 tracer rounds coming your way over a six second period.

Assuming the team doesn't break contact immediately, and assuming their loadouts are uniform across the team, the OPFOR still has to contend with 32 M67 grenades, 80 V40 mini grenades, 8 M34 white phosphorous grenades, 8 M7 CS grenades, 16 Mk. 3 concussion grenades, 8 Claymores, and 24 toe popper mines.

And I'm not even counting the additional 3,000 rounds of 5.56, nor all the various 40mm weapons and LAW rockets.

Any eight man team that was forced to dig in and expend its ordinance would be a pretty fucking tough prospect, even for a fully loaded NVA platoon

>>28380771
Cool

>>28378103
Dumbest post I've read in some time and it annoyed me. Well done if trolling.

>>28381361
Oliver Stone is a batshit crazy communist. Nothing his says can be take seriously.

>>28379748
Yes, SEALS and DEVGRU still use them to this day.

>>28382478
We I'm aroused

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IT AINT ME

>>28377590

all that said, they are sexy as fuck. i would love to have one for tooling around innawoods. slowly. and loudly

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I AINT NO SENATORS SON

>>28379981
because the hippies thought removing their entire logistic train was a smart idea

>>28378555
Death in the jungle

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>MFW this thread
Holy shit they operated in nam.

>>28378495
>No blood, no bodies
>we hit NOTHING

>>28382478
>Loading a quality magazine with 18 rounds

You're retarded.

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>>28382478
>So, after the contact call goes out, you've got 144 tracer rounds coming your way over a six second period.
>Assuming the team doesn't break contact immediately, and assuming their loadouts are uniform across the team, the OPFOR still has to contend with 32 M67 grenades, 80 V40 mini grenades, 8 M34 white phosphorous grenades, 8 M7 CS grenades, 16 Mk. 3 concussion grenades, 8 Claymores, and 24 toe popper mines.
>And I'm not even counting the additional 3,000 rounds of 5.56, nor all the various 40mm weapons and LAW rockets.


Jesus fucking christ. Do we still roll like that, because we should still roll like that.

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>>28384556
Guten abend juden A.

>>28384939

>BMW
>2016

Haven't made a good car for 12 years desu

>>28384943
>desu
You saying that now A? Or am talking to someone completely different?

>>28384868
Not quite like that, but that glorified firestorm is the basis for a lot of the tactics we use to break contact in the modern age.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't wish we still did though. Must've been a hell of a thing to watch. Unless you happened to be wearing a pith helmet of course.

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>>28381635
>>28382162
>>28382316
>>28382478
God damn. We really got all AAAAAAH MOTHERLAND in Nam'

Any links to field manuals on this shit? I want to learn the lead whirlwind.

>>28384723
>quality magazines

>during Vietnam

There's a reason those guys did that you know

>>28384711
Heh. I get it. For reference, that scene gives you a good idea of what I was talking about here >>28381635. A little less intense than the real thing though.


Although in that case, there were plenty of hits, believe me.

>>28385130
I've been looking for the SOG manual forever. Can't seem to find. All this info comes from the mouths of the guys who actually did this crazy shit.

Do some research on their immediate action drills. Shouldn't be too hard to find.

>>28384289
Hey, bound to be one out there somewhere. /k/ found a Tu-95 on ebay for Christ's sake. How hard could tracking down a working APC be?

>>28378321
Hey... This is something I can make!

>>28385185
Will do, if this thread is up in 10 hours when I'm off I'll post links.

I never knew I needed a 37mm launcher and bird bangers until this thread. Thank god for redneck shooting ranges.

>>28385218
The bitch gun? Yeah, go for it. If you do, come back to let us know if the Aussies were right. The reason they cut the barrel down like that was because, according to them, it enhances the report and the muzzle flash.

The idea was that firing those things on full auto (something they accomplished with that old match stick trick) would trick the enemy into believing that they had stumbled upon a firing line of M2 Brownings, not four SAS troopers with SLRs.

Needless to say, any NVA or VC who fell for it probably beat feet in a hurry, which I imagine was the desired outcome.

>>28380771
That magnificent bastard...

>>28385196
http://www.smithconsultinggroup.net/inventory/M113/inventory_M113.php

Here's a start

>>28377798
>>28378543
>One those somehow ended up sitting in a Museum in Vietnam begging for liberation

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfuXblWUGOs

Thread Tunes

>>28385506
I was waiting for this. Last Nam thread I was in had a lot of great music.

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>>28385520
Hey I have a photo of that.

>>28385170
I want a Predator movie set during 1968. Set between Vietnam and Cambodia. Maybe a little bit of Laos.

A SOG group hunting for NVA runs into a group of young Predators.

>>28385408
You know you were a lifer when you know the nomenclature of the plastic cap on the muzzle of that weapon pointed into the ground.

RCL-10

~USA Infantry 88-03

>>28385561
I'd shell out for that movie

Really, any kind of movie about SOG is long overdue

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>>28385464
This thing would be fun as fuck to take innawoods. Imagine crashing through the forest in a god damn APC. I'd be tempted to let my imagination run wild and start hunting for Charlie.

Too cold to camp outside? Make yourself some hot cocoa, then head on in and button up. Bring some warm blankets and a buddy to talk to and you're approaching maximum comfy.

You could even sleep in there. Wouldn't have to worry about bears or skinwalkers. Well, probably not skinwalkers.

>>28377790
some how they did the math and figured out that the bullet is literally inside that dudes head in that picture

>>28385731
Have you seen the video? Little spout of arterial blood streams out as he falls to the ground.

>>28385637
Is it wrong to want a M113 to use as a RV?

I'd fill it with ammo and booze and drive innadesert to hunt coyotes and shit, and if need be can bring along some bros as well

>>28385841
Hell no it isn't. I live in the southwest, so I'd probably buy one for that very purpose if I lived in a more rural area. And if I had the money of course.

>>28385770
i have but i dont really remember it, i just kinda find it cool in a fucked up way that the guy took the picture with the bullet in that dudes head. the timing was amazing i mean the dude is still alive/dead

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Anyone not on a phone have any luck looking up SOG Immediate Action Drills? From what I can tell they were made up in country and up to the unit to design, not a pre done thing in a field manual.

>>28386098
NZSAS apparently?

Pretty vanilla, there's literally nothing on his rifle at all

>>28386649
Fuuuuck, imagine getting into contact with an American platoon with full auto A1's and all you have is a fucking mosin.

>>28386734
Just polevolt to safety

>>28386098
When was this taken? That cant really be Vietnam

>>28386782
But it's a carbine.

I guess she's short enough

>>28386734
NVA was generally pretty well equipped. Bare minimum was SKS, but a shitton of weapons were shipped to the VC from the USSR. Read Matterhorn, American kills were pretty overstated because getting in firefights and not coming back with confirmed KIAs was bad for numbers and could keep you stuck in the shit for months. Most encounters were midnight firefights where both sides would get WIAs then retreat because nobody could aim

>>28386932
>not coming back with confirmed KIAs was bad for numbers and could keep you stuck in the shit for months

>Hey Joe, you see that village?
>Yeah tom, I see it
>Sure looks full of VC don't it?
>All I see are kids and old people tom.
>God damn! A whole village of VC veterans and miniature stealth gophers!
>Tom I don't. .
>You wanna go home some time this year Joe?
>VC gophers, copy that, calling in fire mission

Just seems like a REALLY bad way to run a war.

>>28387024
it was a terrible way to run a war
seriously, when domestic support for the war waned, the johnson and nixon administration cabinets basically turned up the heat and said, "you don't come back with KIAs, you stay there"
One of the biggest problems was that once NCOs and officers gained experience, they were rotated to rear echelon or sent home, which meant that every time you got a good sergeant, lieutenant, or captain, they were rotated to saigon or home, which meant a shitty NCO or officer was now your CO. On official documents, having a low KIA ratio would get a colonel shit on for not commanding his garrison right.
Look up MACVSOG's Phoenix program, and you'll see some of the ridiculously questionable shit these policies spawned.
It was a lot like Chechnya, in that the strategic objective was clear, but there was so much disorganization in tactics and logistics that nothing was ever accomplished beyond murdering civilians and generating WIAs and KIAs during night patrols.

>>28387085
Jesus fucking christ. How did the command elements fuck up THAT bad?

>>28386932
>Most encounters were midnight firefights where both sides would get WIAs then retreat because nobody could aim
Is that part of the reason for the "Biblical flood rain of lead and HE" SOG IA drills?

>>28377590
My dad drove one of those in nam, he said they'd rather ride on top because a mine was certain death

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>>28377532
>documentary

My favorite war documentary, if you haven't watched it, you should.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0m573MxXXw

Battle of Long Tan Documentary, cool one about the Aussies in Nam. Production is excellent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gUSq7pxux4

>>28387121
>My dad drove one of those in nam, he said they'd rather ride on top because a mine was certain death

Is he aware of the "M113 Gavin" guy?

>>28387103
It was a change in the war policy between administrations and constant flip-flopping due to public opinion. Vietnamization was a pretty good success, as the ARVN were very competent fighters, but for about five years after, we went back and forth between redeploying troops and playing the ground game, pulling back and letting the ARVN take over, then cutting funding and aid to the ARVN, then redeploying. Basically while we were fucking around and launching operations to kill NVA logistics, they were basically massing troops while maintaining a buffer zone with guerillas at the parallel. So in the middle of the logistical nightmare we generated, they launched the Hochiminh offensive and fucked saigon with massed troops when we were concerned with a guerilla netwar. The administrations cared more about public opinion than actually comitting and winning the war, which in hindsight was the wrong approach

essentially. Since the NVA mostly conducted raids on forward elements, the best thing we came up with was to launch patrols, and when they encountered a cell, call in artillery and far support to sanitize the area since our marines had such a tactical disadvantage in the jungle at night compared to the NVA sappers and guerillas. On top of that, they had an all-channel logistical setup, so destroying mortar and ammunition caches was pretty ineffective (at a time when the strategic objective was to hit the NVA logistics chain)

>>28387149
>"M113 Gavin" guy

Some dude has made it his life's work to spread awareness that the nickname of the M113 is, in fact, the "Gavin" and that it is superior to all modern personnel carriers LAV/Strykers/Hmmwvs.

The talk page on the M113's Wikipedia article is almost entirely people telling him he's fucking crazy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:M113_armored_personnel_carrier

His crazy ass website: http://www.combatreform.org/armoredhmmwvsstrykersfail.htm

>>28387173
God, the politicians and generals can loose a war faster than your enemies can win it.

So the tactics we developed basically came down to
>We found the enemy
>Salt the fucking earth

Seems like a pretty effective way to fight a jungle war actually. Just gotta gain air superiority and move faster that your enemies fire missions.

Why didn't we just start using LRRP units over infantry bumbfuckery and use that sweet arclight on problem spots like hamburger hill?

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>>28387253
Holy shit, the layout and content are like a bastard child of manifesto and sale pitch.

>>28387254
the main problem was that while, yes, the tactic was effective for fighting a guerilla war, we hadn't launched a large-scale strategic operation since the Tet Offensive which was midway through, and around six years before the end. So for the following six years while we were handing off responsibility between the US marines and the ARVN and dealing with morale, support, and the defunding of the ARVN, we rapidly lost the strategic initiative by stagnating our drive north. It was a guerilla war only because there were no operations put forward to drive north, so while we were technically effective at counterinsurgency near the forward area thanks to MACVSOG and progressively learning how to maintain the border, the actual NVA massed all their troops north in their rear echelons to gain the initiative for the Ho Chi Minh drive south. The NVA were very effective at masking their numbers, so while we were hunting the Viet Cong in their spiderholes, thinking the extent of the war was going to be routing guerillas and severing their logistical lines to gain land, the NVA had been planning to overrun the forward areas and punch straight through to Saigon, knowing our forward troops had been cut down through attrition and our rear areas were in severe disarray due to mismanagement of logistics. Had it been just a guerilla war, Agent Orange, napalm, and MACVSOG would have helped us to eventually push progressively north but the overall strategy had changed between administrations and fucked us royally.

>>28377532
Period documentary on SOG operations in Vietnam, specifically the early green beret training of indigenous peoples.

Sanitized as fuck, but still very interesting.
>It's funny to watch some people looking at cue cards off camera.

youtube.com/watch?v=4UYWBOhjrlo

>>28387324
It was pretty brilliant. Imagine if ISIS's entire public image was shitty guerillas hiding in dirt farmer villages, whose logistical chain could only support 10 man raids on US and native security forces.
But then once we fully devoted ourselves to COIN and routing rebels from villages, with few forces beyond Delta, SEALs, and Rangers split helping native Syrian security forces deployed, they launch a large-scale operation from Iran that was building unnoticed that included T80BVs, BDRMs, stolen MRAPS, and actual trained fighters and sweep the fuck through Syria. There's no way you can stop that, even if your ground game against the guerillas was ace, and your combat K/D overall was enough to support public opinion, the strategic initiative was lost the second you lost focus on the greater war and began fighting a guerilla war where basically force multipliers are nil and then actual enemy contingent has a chance to mass their forces while you're spending all your time routing guerillas.

>>28387324
Sounds like lack of intel and a lack of will to follow through on what intel we did have cost us the war.

Do you think we learned our lesson?

>>28387367
That would be pretty terrifying to be on the ground for.

>Fuck yeah, blowing up hadji with my 40mm and taking villages at night with NVG's and suppressors
>Holy shit a tank!

For all of those looking for a manual for sog training this is probably as close as your gonna get. this is the recondo school training manual. http://www.amazon.com/RECONDO-Recon-Team-Manual-Vietnam/dp/1475223390/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1451642813&sr=8-1&keywords=recondo+manual

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>>28378586
Not really.

>>28387380
I hope so
It's pretty positive that we raped the metaphorical shit out of Noriega when we hunted him just years later, and our netwar doctrine can be specifically adapted to guerillas now. Unfortunately the wars we've gotten involved in now have so many economic and geopolitical facets now that you can never tell when we're actually doing anything meaningful at all. It'd be interesting to see how we measure up in another proxy war situation again, but hopefully it'll never happen. You'd hope that with the ridiculous amount of funding to the NRO, NSA, and CIA that we'd at least be able to have the IMINT SIGINT and HUMINT capacity to forsee an operation like hochiminh and preempt it.
Chechnya was Russia's Vietnam, and all it took was a change of administration before Putin started running riot over the chechens. If you look at Korea before, we were pushed all the way back to Pusan, then nutted up and ran the DPRK all the way back up to the 38th, so it was probably the perfect storm of poor popular opinion, declining funding, and shitty policies.
>>28387388
I can only imagine the pure dread of flying a mundane apache fire mission and having the RWR or IR lock warning light up when all you expected was blowing up some sandpeople having a dirt circlejerk with 20mm HE

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>>28381908
That is without a doubt die Kriegsflagge des Deutschen Reiches.

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>>28387402
Much appreciated.

>>28387357
>In 1954 twenty-five of these villagers turned back a force of 1000 guerillas
>Killing 600

Holy fucking shit, mountain slants operate like the sun won't rise tomorrow.

>>28387417
>I can only imagine the pure dread of flying a mundane apache fire mission and having the RWR or IR lock warning light up
God that would suck, you like to imagine that we're Murrica' and nothing can hurt us, but that aircraft is still on the end of a long lonely rope in that situation.

> you can never tell when we're actually doing anything meaningful at all.

This has got to be the worst part of the current round of police action/war/mop up /whatever you want to call it, no matter how many you kill, no matter how hard you fight, you're just punching jello.

>We killed the iatollah of rock an rollah! Goat fuckers INC. Leader!
>Cool, did it destroy the entire organization?
>Nope, they fractured along geographical and extremism lines and are now three out of control groups terrorizing the fuck out of the region.
>But good news, the means three new commanders to hit.

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>>28377532
Grandpa Kim was in Vietnam.
ROKMC stationed in Danang.

>>28387402
This the same one?

> https://www.google.com/url?q=https://sin.thecthulhu.com/library/military/training/Vietnam/SOG_Combat_Recon_Manual_(1970).pdf&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwiAn93_tYjKAhUB_mMKHafbBJEQFggLMAA&sig2=Dil405QiTh_SL0XOGB1dvA&usg=AFQjCNGImq024OGVndnCkdFTTKVwZyfu5Q

>>28387513
>ROK troops in Nam'
I have NEVER heard a story about ROK troops that didn't go something like
>It was -10* out and they were running through the snow in formation in shorts and helmets
Or
>They murdered every NVA soldier they found, burned the village, salted the forest for daring to contain the village, then preformed recon by fire for three nights just to be sure no chickens escaped

Please tell me you have some cool stories or more pictures

>>28387515
No that's different the recondo school manual focuses more on the techniques used like the IA drill and it goes over some of their extraction rigs and some of their weapons.

>>28387531
Well damn, I'll read them both.

I think I'm going to start doing stuff like MACV SOG IA drills at the range for kicks. Not like I need to train practical because I'm a civilian, and my 20" AR build is just an A2/A1 hybrid anyway. Just need three or four crates of training grenades, a 37mm flare launcher, some OD greens, and a couple buddies.

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>>28387530
"Felt good killin commie scum"
t. Grandpa Kim

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>>28387530

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>>28387531
Feels gud Senpai
VC are scum

>>28387253
>http://www.combatreform.org/armoredhmmwvsstrykersfail.htm
Sounds like one of the guys who say the Tiger was the worst tank of WW2. Typical faggot

>>28387551
>ROK/10

I heard some of the more elite ROK commandos terrified the VC more that MACV SOG

Makes sense, all the training and experience of US special operations in the body of a true believer that didn't consider it was crimes because he doesn't consider the enemy human.

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>>28387590
You will never remove commie like ROKMC in Vietnam.
>So will I being a navy cuck

>>28387542
>US civil war 2 2019 Boogaloo
>Hillary's "Forces for change"(c) make contact with resistance fighters in bum fuck redneck land Murrica
>Contact Front! Is followed up by a storm of 5.56 and tracer, pipe bombs on sticks, cheddite shaped like dragon dildos, and fireworks
>Through the noise the resistance team is heard yelling insults "Get slotted you zipper head assholes!" "Charlie down!" And "Vietnam fucking shits!"
>The few survivors of the rain of bullets and homemade HE wipe blood from their eyes just in time to see figures in OD green and tiger stripe uniforms running awyay leaving bags of flaiming dog poo as anti personnel deterrents.

>>28387620
I don't know man, I'm torn
>Feel lucky to live such an easy boring life
>Feel deprived of a life worth living

I know war is hell, but what else would make my existence have merit? Should I set a world record or something?

>>28381830


I've been watching Tour Of Duty, can confirm, confederate flag was flown on that show

>>28385637

Can confirm, M113s are shit to ride in, but you get a great sleep in them.

Best model would be the Aussie ones which have an extra roadwheel and extended chassis, just a little bit more roomy

>>28386098


This couuuuuuullllldddddd be NZSAS in temburong

>>28387253
... Keeps repeating strykers can "never be made RPG resistant" but then goesbon to use anecdotal evidence about 1.75" of steel and dirt-filled MREs on a m113 tanking RPG hits with "nothing more than a slight gouge in the armor". What?

>>28387131
>That burned out tunnel rat
>The reporters talking shit about modern liberals
>Varying degrees of damn.

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>>28387515
This is DAMN good info, everyone on /k/ needs to read this.

>Read this PDF
>Yes that means you (not ex mil though)

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>>28387515
>Form an upside down pyramid
>Light everything behind you on fire so nobody can follow you
>gas everyone right and left with CS so they don't want to
>clear your direction of travel with frag so nobody is alive to stop you
>move forward like a bulldozer made of bullets and explosives

Jesus christ, these guys weren't fucking around.

>>28387867
That's so stupid it hurts. The stryker is better in nearly every way.

>>28377532
Is that a dissy? When were those first developed?

>>28385637
>Bring some warm blankets and a buttbuddy to fuck and you're approaching maximum comfy

Fixed that for you

>>28377532
I love that furniture, anyone know if any repros are available?

>>28378190
Maybe its caked in mud and jammed.

>>28389979
>>28378190
There's another guy below him in the hole holding that M16, you can see the corner of his LBE.

>>28378081
>perfectly functional.
Hate to break it to you bud.

>>28386098
Time traveling oper8or

>>28389855
That's just plain jane M16A1 furniture. It's very common. The sick paintjob is DIY.

>>28387131
>jewish journalist "didn't believe in the war" and claims that soldiers believed they were just there to "kill gooks"

gee, I wonder why he wouldn't have an issue with Marxism as a self proclaimed "middle class jewish boy"

Interesting doco all the same.

>>28388127
This is just absolutely beautiful. Go maximum fuck with the firepower and roll forward. I love it how the flanks are secured more with explosive death than men.

>>28385841
It'd be fun until some shit started to break. I was on a 113 for a couple of years and the maintenance was a fucking nightmare. The track, the goddamned final-drives, the engine/trans blowing....god I almost forgot how much I hated those things.

>>28377749
I didn't know we still had BARs floating around in Vietnam. Cool

>>28377819
Hold the phone is that bushwacker a girl?

>>28392867
They used fucking EVERYTHING in Nam'

>>28391210
>jewish journalist

He also wrote 'Dispatches', which was used a source material for Apocalypse Now and he co-wrote Full Metal Jacket.

>>28393061
Vietnam started with lots of WW2 legacy gear still as standard issue.

Also, the guys in the picture are South Vietnamese, who got hand-me-downs from the US to boot.

>>28387253
>>28387287
>>28387580
>>28387867

https://youtu.be/C1sN52CBKi4?list=PLEAEU2gs2Nz-aSi3PpjNI9Q4klDGi421D&t=745

>>28391211
Yep

>Surrounded?
>Spread fire and frag on your flanks and punch out with the anger of an A10 strike.

I love that the solution for making a hole in the enemy line is to use fucking claymore mines as line of sight weapons.

>See those gooks Jim?
>Yeah Matt
>Shoot those fuckers with your claymore

>>28377779
Ya hear that?
... Gooks in the wire.

>>28377779
let slip the hounds of war...

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAJDnhpvtJY

>>28377830
wouldnt this massively expose ammo to incoming fire? doesnt really seem like you would want those belts gettin hit

>>28393662
Thats a good point, but there is no way he's shooting through that whole belt on one barrel

>>28377532
This was a great thread, but all I can think of is

>ROK MC are slanty satan with M16s
>MACV SOG solved all contact with platoon lever firepower in three minutes and were like god's claymore

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>>28393469

>>28393889
thats what i got out of this thread, i mean jesus i wanna practice this shit with some friends now

>>28394081
I'm doing it this sunday with a friend using my A1/A2 hybrid. Gonna get some OD greens and nam' web gear too, then build a shit ton of training grenades

I bet I could get some airsoft claymore mines for the whole thing too

Played airsoft with a dude whose Uncle was a LRRP in Vietnam. Would occasionally tell us stories and teach us cool operator shit that made us feel baller as 14 year olds.

Apparently one of the greatest fears of the LRRPs was getting shot by some dumbfuck draftee as they tried to re-enter the wire. They wouldn't enter the wire at night unless an officer came out and walked them in (so he'd make damn sure his guys didn't start shooting) and they stayed outside the wire at night on multiple occasions rather than try to enter in the dark and risk getting blue on blued by some drug addled draftee fuckup.

Had another story about a dude on a patrol who had an M79 cut down and slung along with his rifle. Fucker had the safety off, trigger caught onto some shit and it fired, burying a 40 mm in the dirt a few feet away. (for the uneducated, 40 MM rounds don't arm until they rotate a certain amount in order to prevent this kinda shit from killing people.)

>>28379748
Pretty common among specialized troops.

Go read Gary Linderer's book "six silent men." About LRRP teams. In one particularly interesting story his team got blown the fuck up on hamburger hill while reconning it before the big battle because their radio antennae got hit by lightning and cooked off a bunch of their explosives.

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>>28394169
got a link for the od greens, assuming they look period correct? Heres my clone for your troubles

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>>28394318
It cooked off a cuncussion grenade. I think I read that in an LRRP book.

>>28394386
I'll look around and give you a link. Nice rifle, mine is a fucking abomination bit it's more functional than a straight A1 clone.

>>28394267
>Apparently one of the greatest fears of the LRRPs was getting shot by some dumbfuck draftee as they tried to re-enter the wire.
That would be fucking terrifying. I can't even imagine being a high speed professional in a conscripted army.

Any stories about shit he taught you?

>>28394435
> bit it's more functional than a straight A1 clone.
How?

>>28378555
Six Silent Men.

RECONDO

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>>28394481

>>28394481
Modern muzzle break, heavier barrel, and it's debatable but the brass deflector makes me feel better about shooting left handed.

This site has pattern 1-3 jungle fatigues

> http://www.mooremilitaria.com/apparel/3rd-pattern-jungle-fatigues.html

Looking for others now, trying to decide what pattern I like.

Also, I like how in >>28387515
They talk about using canteen pouches to carry a shit ton of mags in one pouch instead of fucking with a ton of mag pouches

>>28377590

To be fair, it would have been better than say, driving around in unarmored trucks.

>>28378309
>All of these guns

Jesus fuck, I'm trying to imagine the look on a Sgt's face in today's army if a soldier took a hack saw to his rifles barrel and fucked about with the trigger group in his rifle.

>>28384868
Works a bit better in the thick ass jungle where all the bad guys are in throwing range.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuuDWd8SL7A&user=Mark%20Garrison

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>>28394522

>>28377790

>A summary execution is an execution in which a person is accused of a crime and immediately killed without benefit of a full and fair trial

That's generally considered a war crime

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>Weise instructed Major Warren, his S3, to remain in Dai Do and take charge of the perimeter manned by the remnants of E and H Companies. Their other decimated company, B/1/ 3, was to remain in An Lac to secure the medevac and resupply points on the Bo Dieu River. The only elements still capable of mounting the assault were F and G Companies, and Weise planned to use both. Weise planned to accompany Golf Company. There were fifty-four Marines left in Golf, and as Weise saddled up with them he noted that, with the exception of grenadiers and machine gunners, almost all were carrying AK-47s. Weise saw only one M16; it was carried by Captain Vargas. The only other functioning M16 was carried by Weise himself.

How common was this?

>>2839452

Go to ar15sport, they have all the retro parts you need. Keep the upper but that barrel has to go

>>28394763
>Meant for
>>28394527

>>28394786
STOLEN VALOR
T
O
L
E
N

V
A
L
O
R

>>28394467
Mostly basic shit like how to effectively use concealment, camo paint. The most complicated thing we got around to was an aussie peel, which he admits really isn't the same without oodles of explosives, gas, smoke, and other various forms of fuck.

>>28394806
wat?

>>28394711
They dragged him out of the room full of bodies, called him an un-uniformed combatant and shot his gook ass.

>>28394763
Why the hate on the barrel?

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>>28394806
?

>>28394838

I'm not saying it wasn't justified and that the dude wasn't guilty about it but rules are rules.

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>>28394552
Is that seriously the result of one RPG-7 strike?

knew a guy who was a Vietnamese scout for US recon dudes. They'd sometimes get him to suit up like charlie and walk down the trail ahead of the main team, and if he saw anyone he'd pretend to take a shit on the side of the trail to signal to the recon team to set up a quickie ambush or just fucking hide.

After the war he didn't get out. Got sent to a "reeducation" camp where they kicked the fucking shit out of him and forced him to do backbreaking labor, then once he got out the commie gov fucked with him at every turn. He was 90% done building a new house for his family, then the party says his building permit is revoked and he has to tear it all down or go to jail.

In the early 2000s he's on teh interwebz and finds a site where recon vets talk and bullshit. He says who he is and asks if dudes A B and C are still Alive. Bunch of dudes lay into him calling him a faker and shit, till Cal Rollins, one of his old teammates, tells them to shut the fuck up, this dude is legit. Cal and some other dudes from their unit busted ass with the US state department and with the Vietnamese government, and he was able to move to the states with his unmarried children. They are currently trying to get his married kids and their families over here, but his health is kinda fucked because the goddamn reds fucked him up in that camp.

>>28394895
that Gavin got btfo

>>28394831
>>28394853
During the 2004 US presidential campaign, John Kerry's combat service was called into question. He was a Swift boat skipper.

He might be a fag Democrat but it sounds like he pulled his weight in the shit. "Going Upriver" is a short documentary about Kerry's time in the 'Nam.

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>>28394888
The rules of war say non-uniformed combatants are not afforded the same treatment as uniformed soldiers. Spies and saboteurs are executed in times of war.

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>>28394888
>but rules are rules
You are just fucking adorable.

This is a war where special forces used nerve gas grenades and napalm was standard ordinance. What fucking rules?

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>>28394895
Yep

>>28378345
Weren't these referred to as moderators? I am working on a 607 clone, without the fun stuff. I came across a flash suppressor that looks somewhat like this.

>>28394954
>nerve gas grenades
wat

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>>28394923
Ahh thanks for clearing that up

>>28394923
Didn't he get shot three times and save a dude or some shit?