F-35 Opinions

so effective that even Obama would have a difficult time fucking up a war that involved them

>>28097006
>Hey /k/, conducting a survey for a school project

No you're not, you be trolling.

>>28097975
Unfortunately not, I'm carrying out an epq if you wanna look up what that is

>>28097006
Watch this documentary to see how terrible the F-35 is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkrtxDdaWuM

I am sexually attracted to this airplane.

Despite being a useless piece of shit, I do think that the F-35 is a sexy plane, though.

>>28097006
Usefull for who? The air force ? The navy ? The marines ? Lockheed ? One of the foreign customers ?

Fucking vague question if you ask me.

Absurdly. The extra data fusion stuff will give pilots a much better idea of what's going on than any potential adversary. The more information you have, the less nasty surprises you are likely to run into.

>>28098539
Yeah that's the point, I'm supposed to write over 5000 words on it

What a dumb question to ask to an uninformed irrelevant audience.

>>28097006
Coming along smoothly, marred by detractors arguing in bad faith

It's going to get its numbers cut severely. Then we'll see what our fourth gen was really capable of. It's going to be glorious. Games about this time period will be like WW2 levels of popular.

>>28102665
>Numbers cut severely
Source: Your ass

>>28102759
bruh everyone is talking about it right now
when the total buy gets cut the price will jump back into xbox hueg numbers, and that's on top of its enormous operational costs, then the big cut will happen

>>28098499
Dude nice. Agree with everything they have to say. The F-1-, err, F-35 is a total lemon that will never serve our military or anyone else's any legitimate purpose. We should have just stuck with the F-4. Nothing wrong with that plane, and it's got all the capabilities we need.

>>28097006

>https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...g-deal-416586/
>http://inserbia.info/today/2015/11/i...ale-deal-soon/
>http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3da930d4-5...#axzz3snEgT5BI
>http://www.baka.com.au/federal-politi...27-gl9ubr.html

JAS-39E (Brazil AF):4.7 billion USDs for 36 fighters --> Around 130.5 million USDs per unit.

Rafale (Indian AF):8.3 billion USDs for 36 fighters --> Around 230.5 million USDs per unit.

Eurofighter (Kuwait AF):8.0 billion Euros for 28 fighters --> Around 285.7 million Euros or 302.8 million USDs per unit.

F-35A (RAAF):24.0 billion USDs for 70 fighters --> Around 342.8 million USDs per unit.


Why the FUCK is it so expensive? No wonder Canada cancelled.

>>28101100
what about it? the politics? the technology? the tactics?

>>28098499

So the Hornet is an updated Cobra?

And the Grippen/Rafale is an updated Viggen?

Cool.

Imma keep watching. Good post anon.

>>28103474
>F-35A (RAAF):24.0 billion USDs for 70 fighters --> Around 342.8 million USDs per unit.
Is that true? Fucking hell maybe getting them may not have been such a good idea after all

>>28103631
>>28103474
All of his links are 404 errors, you fucking tard. You're being had.

Never assume someone's source is legit unless you actually check it.

>>28103474
>>28103631

according to this
http://breakingdefense.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2014/04/F-35-2013-SAR.pdf

japan bought 6 for 1.3 billion (216.67 million each)
and Israel bought 19 for 2.623 billion (138.07 million each)

and this is the initial production. The price will go down further as mass production gets going

>>28103686
That's because of jewts anti-spam system that parses links

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>>28103610
Kind of. The Hornet was effectively the end result of F-5 development (pic related).

Gripen is an entirely new design - it's got nothing to do with the Viggen. Although all the Yurotriangles were generally developed around the same time to similar requirements, they all at least started as independent projects. However, with the advent of FBW controls, the delta-canard layout just happens to be the optimal layout for a fighter (unless you're looking for stealth). If you look around the world at 4th Gen fighter projects from the 80's, the bulk of them use a similar layout
>Rafale
>Gripen
>Typhoon
>Soko Novi Avion
>Sukhoi S-37
>MiG 1.44
>IAI Lavi
>Chengdu J-10
>Messerschmitt TKF-90

>>28103686
>https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/brazil-finalises-468bn-gripen-ng-deal-416586/
>http://inserbia.info/today/2015/11/india-france-to-sign-rafale-deal-soon/
>http://www.reuters.com/article/finmeccanica-eurofighter-kuwait-idUSL5N11H2RP20150911
>http://www.baka.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/push-for-inquiry-into-australias-24-billion-f35-joint-strike-fighter-purchase-20151127-gl9ubr.html

JAS-39E (Brazil AF):4.7 billion USDs for 36 fighters --> Around 130.5 million USDs per unit.

Rafale (Indian AF):8.3 billion USDs for 36 fighters --> Around 230.5 million USDs per unit.

Eurofighter (Kuwait AF):8.0 billion Euros for 28 fighters --> Around 285.7 million Euros or 302.8 million USDs per unit.

F-35A (RAAF):24.0 billion USDs for 70 fighters --> Around 342.8 million USDs per unit.


Fixed. The cost for the entire F-35 package is disastrous. Weed Man was right.

>>28103824
Last link is still broken.

>>28103859
s m h instead of baka

>>28103859
You have to replace Baka with BAKA.

It is the jew parser, it filters Au shitposting.

>>28103938
FUCKING JEWS.

s.m.h. is a banned word on 4chan.

It also stands for Sunday Morning Herald.

>>28103824
The RAAF website says
>The total capital cost of $12.4 billion for this acquisition includes the cost of associated facilities, weapons and training.

>http://www.airforce.gov.au/Technology/Future-Acquisitions/F-35A-Lightning-II/?RAAF-ZRnYQhJUh1u0e44uR32olOT1rt+Ym4K3

>>28103474
all this electronics, new radars, stealth, titanium/composite frames, etc are expensive

>>28103824
for some reason, I'm willing to believe the australian military instead of a blog

http://www.airforce.gov.au/Technology/Future-Acquisitions/F-35A-Lightning-II/?RAAF-ZRnYQhJUh1u0e44uR32olOT1rt+Ym4K3

so the math works out to
12.4 billion for 72 planes = 177 million per plane

>>28103973
Shake my head isn't a blog you dumb faggot. You're also not helping by posting the front page of the RAAF program and nothing else.

>>28103474

That is not how you work out aircraft costs you complete retard.

Total procurement price divided by airframe numbers =/= general cost to acquire.

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>>28104124
that link doesn't go to the front page of the RAAF program anon

remember you have to highlight the ENTIRE link before you copy and paste it into the url bar. You can't just take a shortcut like that

>>28104124
given the track record of the general media on reporting military matters, I'm even less inclined to believe anything they say than if it were a blog.

The official RAAF website is giving a number that's half of what this other source is claiming. The site you're posting sources another one of their own articles for the number.
>http://www.baka.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/running-costs-double-jsf-price-tag-to-24b-20140423-zqyay.html
Ignoring the blatant memespewing of the other article, they say the numbers are actually 12 billion for procurement and another 12 billion in lifetime costs.

>>28097006
Senpai

Why would those retards add in lifetime costs for the fucking total price?

Who decided doing this for only the F-35 was a good idea? Maybe someone trying to sabotage it?

>>28104187
And for those of you who can't be assed to rework the link, here's some highlights

>The bad

>Designs compromised by Chinese hackers in 2012, which could undermine the strategic advantage of the JSF

>Extremely complicated computer software requiring more than 8 million lines of code. Glitches have caused long delays.

>Has had problems with vulnerability to electrical storms, though the Pentagon says this is being fixed

>Pentagon chief has complained that parts fall of the plane mid-flight

>Not particularly manoeuvrable

>Too many maintenance hours needed for each hour of flying

>Soure: US Government

And even better, they're trying to paint the Su-35 as being better:
>muh superior maneuverability
>muh superior jamming
>muh longer range

Seriously this is the type of shit journalism I'd expect from a Gawker site.

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>>28104167
>It actually has to be spelled out that 'front page of the program' was shorthand for 'front page of the F-35 program and specs'
Read a fucking book

>>28104224
People like to complain about the latest high-profile military program because it makes them feel like they're actually caring about the issues without having to actually confront the real problems the military has like
>The VA being so incompetent that it's taken for granted that charities will have to pick up the slack
>interservice dickwaving costing millions of dollars because someone doesn't want to use "the other guy's" stuff

With nothing to really compare against, it's pretty easy to make any military program seem bad by just spewing raw numbers without any context.

>>28104261
Those same people don't bat an eye at the trillions being pissed away on welfare either

>>28104299
Because it's broken out into smaller things. Welfare isn't one big budget item, but rather a bunch of smaller programs that individually aren't as scary. Plus, with states handling most of the distribution level of welfare, it makes it harder to target as a big evil government program (even if most of the money does come from the Feds).

And of course, there's also the media's short-sightedness. Why would we need a "trillion" dollar super fighter plane if the ones we're flying now bomb sand people fine? It's not like we'll ever have to replace them or encounter an opponent in the near future who's not in the stone age, right?

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All I think when I see the F35 is, "I miss the F22"

>>28097060
You underestimate the power of Obongo

>>28103495
Well it's supposed to touch all of the things above, but I'm mainly comparing it to its legacy aircraft as well as Russia and china's competing aircraft + Typhoon

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>>28102964

>>28104370
I unironically think the F-35 is a better plane than the F-22 at a strategic level, which is what matters.

>>28107416
Oh in that case it should be easy.

It outperforms every legacy aircraft it's replacing in just about every aspect. F-35A and C have a better payload and range than the F-16 and F-18, respectively, and the F-35B far outperforms anything the Harriers it replaces are capable of.

It gets shit for poor maneuverability, but that's mostly the result of a single test of an F-35 with limited controls flying off against a clean F-16 - one of the most agile aircraft on the planet. In reality, it's more maneuverable than the F-16 with an actual combat load.

The Yurotriangles and Flankers outperform the F-35 on paper, but they lack the F-35's sensors, and, more critically, stealth. Even if all the aircraft had entirely equal systems, the F-35 would hold the advantage because it's able to see and engage non-stealth aircraft long before the enemy can see them.

>>28107924
>it's more maneuverable than the F-16 with an actual combat load.

No it isn't.

> the F-35 would hold the advantage because it's able to see and engage non-stealth aircraft long before the enemy can see them.

Should being the operative word. BVR against modern manouvering targets with jamming has never been attempted.

>>28107924
>it's more maneuverable than the F-16 with an actual combat load.
Okay? Even if that's true GJ, it's marginally more maneuverable than a jet from the 70s. It still has garbage wing loading and T/W is even more unimpressive. The eurocanards would (literally) fly circles around it.

>>28107985
>Even if that's true GJ, it's marginally more maneuverable than a jet from the 70s.

You're an idiot.

> It still has garbage wing loading

What is lifting body for $500, Alex

>T/W is even more unimpressive.

What do you think the T:W ratio is and why do you think its unimpressive

>>28108010
>What is lifting body for $500, Alex
Not a feature of the F-35?

It has nowhere near high enough body blending factor to be counted as a surface that actively enhances CBP. If you're going to be this fucking delusional then the 757 is a fighter jet because it has a blending factor higher than 15%

>>28107985
>marginally more maneuverable than a jet from the 70s
That "jet from the 70's" is still pretty much the gold standard for maneuverability today. The F-35 may lack the supermaneuverability that we see on meme planes like the Flanker, but that shit's useless outside of airshows.

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>>28108204
>The F-35 may lack the supermaneuverability

But it doesn't though

The F-35s biggest problem is that there won't be enough of them to live up to Lockheed's advertising campaigns. It's biggest purchasers are those that don't have super carriers and those with existing aircraft so old they're probably grounded for fear of falling out of the sky. In 2040 Hornets and Eagles and Flankers will still be pulling most of the weight while the stealth super fighters are all hanger queens due to parts shortages because they never made enough.

It's pretty much only a thing at this point because we sunk too much money into it to just dump it and Harriers are pretty much about to fall out of the sky.

Post teen fighter development has been an enormous, expensive, and unsatisfying clusterfuck.

>>28108373
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/test-pilot-admits-the-f-35-can-t-dogfight-cdb9d11a875#.hwx2koq2v

>>28108506
>It's biggest purchasers are those that don't have super carriers

The USAF and US Navy?

>>28108750
well granted the USAF doesn't operate supercarriers.

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>>28108737
>war is boring

Who gives two shits even if the F-35 can't dogfight, all it has to do is fire missiles. Or let the F-22 or Eurofighter fire missiles. This meme of planes needing to be able to do backflips in order to be a good plane is ridiculous, you're not going to backflip out of the way of a missile and you don't need to do backflips to act as a bomb truck bombing brown people.

>>28108750

I don't think it's ever going to complete half its orders, and even if it did the Navy's order would only be half of the Marines order.

Really, it's getting cut back almost every year by every party involved. It's insanely optimistic to think this program will survive the next couple of decades it would take to complete those orders.

>>28108737
There's a big difference between raw maneuverability (a la F-16) and super"maneuverability" (which isn't technically even maneuverability at all, it's controllability).

One allows you to redirect your aircraft's path of flight with superb agility. The other lets you do pointless acrobatic flips and shit while you get shot to death.

>>28108880
Why wouldn't they complete all the orders?
The only reason they wouldn't buy 2500 F-35's is if the mexicans were legalized and money had to be diverted to buying their votes.

>>28108893
He thinks that if he keeps spouting bullshit about it being cancelled then it'll come true eventually.

>>28108893

Same reason there ended up being only 180 F22s and not 750.

>>28108880
>Really, it's getting cut back almost every year by every party involved.


http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-defence-idUKKBN0TB0AF20151123

well meme'd

>>28108853
>Who gives two shits even if the F-35 can't dogfight, all it has to do is fire missiles.
and once all the missiles are fired and miss the target?
this is more likely scenario than you think.

>>28108938
Then they withdraw, as is standard procedure.

>>28108929
F-22 was an old fucking plane, with no real reason to exist

>>28108929
Are you saying the JSF program won't complete it orders so we can buy more JSFs, anon?

Because that doesn't make sense. Even for a trolling attempt.

>>28108938
You go home and get more.

>>28108953
>>28109009
not if the opponent can outrun you and has more missiles

>>28108968

I think the idea is that the JSF gets cut to hell and everyone just keeps upgrading to 2040 Eagles and Advanced Super Hornets.

>>28109033
>and everyone just keeps upgrading to 2040 Eagles and Advanced Super Hornets.

Which are more expensive for less capability

genius

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>>28109032
>opponent can outrun you and has more missiles
>you are out of missiles

I want you to tell me how dogfighting will improve this situation.

>>28108506
>USAF buying 1734 As
>Not buying enough
Are you retarded?

>>28109068
opponent doesn't know where you are because you are stealthed

>>28109040

I'm pretty sure a 15% addition to the price is still cheaper than an F35.

>>28108956
It's still the best Air Superiority fighter ever built,decades ahead of what the Russians have. It's just too specialized and needs a lot of upgrades to bring it up to the F-35's avionics standards.

>>28108737
Try actually reading the report in question instead of that rags spin on it.

>>28109032
>not if the opponent can outrun you and has more missiles
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/don-t-think-the-f-35-can-fight-it-does-in-this-realistic-war-game-fc10706ba9f4#.hviuu5qa1

You have to be able to find the F-35 first.

>>28109107
Paying 75% of the price for 50% of the capabilities is a losing scenario.

>>28109107
Don't forget to adjust for inflation before adding that 15%.

>>28103824
>including additional purchases into the aircraft unit price

keks were had

>>28109068
problem is that for an airplane that is supposed to be BVR only, it does not carry many missiles

>>28109172

I don't think inflation is a big concern if your system doesn't take 30 years to deliver.

>>28109263
>muh goalposts

>>28109360

Goalposts are still another 15yrs away.

>>28109247
14 with pylons seems like a healthy number. A more reasonable 6 with internal only while maintaining stealth is fine when you consider F-35's won't be flying around solo.

>>28109416
external pylons remove the only advantage of f-35, stealth.

and only four AA missiles can be carried internally, not six.

>>28107967
Sorry, it's as maneuverable as an F-18, which has somewhat different aerodynamic characteristics than the F-16

>>28107985
>muh wing loading

Into the trash it goes

>>28108737
>war is boring

Axe is lying, which you could tell if you weren't an easily deceived and utterly technologically illiterate simpleton

>>28109450
It's still stealthier than a non-stealth aircraft with only external stores.

>>28108880
Yes, this is the slash and whine detractor strategy

>complain about overall program cost, convince policymakers to cut the order
>complain about unit cost, which has directly increased because the reduction in planes
>complain about overall program cost...
>repeat ad nauseam until program is dead

>>28109450
Can they fire missiles and dump the pylons?

>>28109487
no they can't

They are pretty cool.

>>28109489
Well then they should work on that ASAP
Whats the point of making a stealth aircraft if you can't dump the pylons after firing your BVR missiles

>>28109450
>external pylons remove the only advantage of f-35, stealth.

They don't, and stealth is only one advantage.

6 internal missiles is a planned capability.

>>28109505
A: Still lower RCS with pylons than standard aircraft.
B: Air dominance is assumed at the point pylons will be equipped anyways.

>>28109475

>>28109507
Up to 12 missiles with CUDA.

>>28109524
Should say 6 AMRAAMs, rather.

>>28109519
If the US is fighting an actual relevant enemy, like china.
Air dominance is never going to happen.

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>>28109533

>>28109537
m8
It's true
Just like in the nato bombing of serbia

>>28109477
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with the F35, I just don't think the program will end as anything other than a sad husk of what it was supposed to be.

>>28109549
You mean where we basically had free run of the skies with no aircraft opposition, and their ADA had to play peekaboo games and still got burned?

>>28109549
>NATO ruins Yugoslavia
>NATO loses like two planes

smuganimeface

>>28109567
>>28109572
Flying around in circles bombing schools, hospitals, and chinese embassies.
And then fabricating numbers of tanks/planes/IFV's/etc bombed so it's not so embarassing.

Had a negligible effect on the military capacity of Serbia to fight.

>>28109594
Which is why they surrendered, amirite?

>>28109594
>Implying is an actual ground war like, say, Desert Storm/Iraqi Freedom it's the same thing

>>28109594
Well yes, an air campaign can only help you so much when the meat and potatoes of what your enemy is doing is having guys in Yugos roll up into villages, kill the men, burn the mosque, and rape the women.

>>28109594
You seem to forget Serbian ammo factories operating at 20% of pre-campaign capacity

:^)

>>28109615
Hope your family is killed by a muslim terrorist, pal

>>28102964
>I have become idiot destroyer of threads

>>28109630
I'm praying that we have an actual Serb in the thread.

It's not often that Christians are worse than Muslims, or that anyone is worse than Albanians, but Serbia managed it so badly that even France started bombing their shit.

>>28109649
It was literally just fabricated nonsense in the western media, who all completely ignored the muslims that raped & murdered.

Just as they ignore the muslims doing that today, in the west. Or blacks in the USA.

We call it, Progress

>>28109659
buttblasted serb detected

>>28109659
>fight 4 wars within a ten year period
>despite overwhelming superiority in supplies, lose all 4
>shoot at NATO planes and storm UN compounds
>be such an embarrassment for Europe in general that even a pussy like Clinton decides to bomb you
>BAWW WHY WONT ANYONE LIKE US

I love how you fags started out the war thinking you could take Vukovar, and ended it by losing Pristina.

>>28109659
>ignored the muslims that raped & murdered.
Except no Bosnian ever did anything close to Srebenica.

>>28109659
>It was literally just fabricated nonsense in the western media
>fabricated

>>28109669
>>28109681
>bomb christians for the benefit of muslims
>get suicide bombed for your efforts

Enjoy

>>28109689
Funny how the dutch in srebrenica saw nothing. It's almost like its entirely bullshit!

>>28109706
Nice try, but everyone knows that all Balkanshits are garbage, regardless of religion.

>WE WUZ FIGHTING TERRORISM

Cry harder fag.

>>28109749
>serbs are bad because, killings and ethnic cleansings
>Look the other way when the albanians do literally that in kosovo

But keep claiming that moral high ground
Maybe someone will actually believe it someday

>>28109706
>Saw nothing
So what happened to the thousands of people there then? Did the Associated Press go in there and murder them?

>>28109706
>Serbs film themselves killing civilians in Srebrenica
>ITS BULLSHIT!!!!

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=559_1425825864

>>28109630
Nigga, that's not my point, and you should know it

>>28109764
>Kosovo exists

I gather from this that you lost the war, NATO air power worked, public opinion was not in your favor, and I can laugh at you for being mad.

PS Being Orthodox doesn't mean you aren't still a Turk.

>>28109775
Thousands of bosnians died, it was a war you kno?

>>28109790
>civilians

>>28103474

About the Gripen, it's 108 in total. After the 36th unit, the rest will be built here

>>28109032
>>28109068
Hold on guys, wasn't the F-35 that went against the F-16 still with its software limiters? From what I read, they didn't want to put it through it's paces quite yet since the aircraft itself was still incomplete. Question aside, my impression is that it'll be as maneuverable as the F-16 if that software limiter bit is true.

>>28109795
Job well done, islamic state created in Kosovo, everywhere there is poorer, and most of them want to flee into europe.

truly ~mission accomplished~

>>28109827
>military goals were to stop anything embarrassing like another Rwanda or Screbrenica getting on CNN and making Clinton look bad
>nobody cares about the former Yugoslavia any more

All the tildes in the world can't save you from the freedom.

>>28109864
Aiding, training, and arming known muslim terrorists
But I guess thats what the US has been doing the last 50 years, right?

Here's hoping for another 9/11!

>>28109826
It will never be as manouverable as an F-16, and thats fine.

We no longer live in a world where you have to point your nose at someone to lock and/or fire your weapon systems, particularly short range IR missiles.

>>28109826
Yep. Test airframe AF-02, which doesn't have RAM or the advanced avionics or most current software, either.

>>28109901
But that's missing the point though. I'm asking, what is its actual maneuverability? Though I do agree that it's no longer an absolute necessary, being as maneuverable as an F-16 would be a nice bonus. Especially at airshows someday. Right now though, unless someone got to read something better than I did, it doesn't seem like we can really say how maneuverable the F-35 is.

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>>28109888
The irony being that Serbs are still brown enough that you couldn't get on one of our airplanes without a "random" screening.

Anyway, we can conclude safely that NATO air power performed successfully in Operation Allied Force, and that as long as Americans are around, they will continue to fight for truth, justice, and the American war, gaining the ire of fascist evildoers everywhere. If at least some countries didn't hate us with a passion, we wouldn't be living up to our potential.

Oh, and the F-35 looks to be a pretty good plane. The F-16 kicked ass, VLO kicks ass, so a VLO F-16 should be pretty nifty.

>>28109929
It's a high-AoA fighter like the -18. And ultimately the maneuverability doesn't matter, the tactics do.

>>28109937
NATO air power didn't accomplish anything
The serbs WITHDREW, not surrendered, because NATO kept building up troops & they couldn't possibly win in a war.

>>28109949
Well, it ruined Yugoslavia's infrastructure.

It was never going to do much more than that with such a pitiful ground force as the KLA.

>>28109937
>they will continue to fight for truth, justice, and the American war
Is this a joke? Or are you a retard?

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>>28109949
>It didn't accomplish anything!
>That's why we left!

>>28109991
>America leaves vietnam, korea, Iraq, afghanistan
>hur we didn't lose there :))

>>28109942
And that's what I wanted to know - thanks. And I do agree that tactics and training matter more. It's just that given the thread, I am more curious about the plane itself.

>>28109980
Well, if I'm not memeing you, the objective of the war was to avoid having the Serbs embarrass Clinton with more easily preventable war crimes.

That was it. He already had Bosnia and Rwanda as black spots on his record, and he pussied out of Somalia. He wanted to avoid any more embarrassing shit on CNN that would harm him and his party in domestic US politics.

The withdrawal of Serb forces from Kosovo achieved that. They were no longer in a position to fill up some mass graves and make NATO look like muppets.

Anyway, I'm pretty much an unapologetic US imperialist.

>>28110026
Well, If you've ever been in a major US city, you'd know that it is the US which is getting colonized by foreigners.

>>28110093
The demographic-economic paradox is a bitch.

The nice thing is, the US can afford to brain-drain other countries.

Most of our legal immigrants are the best people from other countries. That's more of a bonus than anything else.

I agree that we need to get rid of the Mexicans.

>>28110093
>Starting with western europeans >500 years ago

>>28110114
But there is always a regression to the mean among the children of immigrants

A non-white majority US is not going to stay together

>>28109949
>lol america lost vietnam because they withdrew
>the serbs withdrawing wasn't a defeat
KYS

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>>28110015
>America leaves vietnam

North Vietnam signed a peace treaty to get America to stop bombing Hanoi.

>korea

North Korea was driven out of South Korea.

>Iraq

Saddam has been dead for 10 years, and the new government has firm control of the country.

>afghanistan

The people responsible for 9/11 are either dead or in custody and the Afghan government has control of the country.

>>28110142
>US funds and arms ISIS
>ISIS terrorist who worked for the US government attacks & kills other US government employees

it's like pottery

>>28110153
Iraq is pretty fucked.

>>28110153
>firm control
uhh

>>28110153
>the Afghan government has control of the country.
>the new government has firm control of the country.

>North Vietnam signed a peace treaty to get America to stop bombing Hanoi.
and then conquered south vietnam

>>28110153
>North Vietnam signed a peace treaty to get America to stop bombing Hanoi.
And then they took over the whole country a few years later.

>North Korea was driven out of South Korea.
Yes, and then America was driven out of NK by the Chinese.

>Afghan government has control of the country.
Then why was Hamid Karzai nickname the 'mayor of Kabul' when he was supposed to be president of the whole country?

>>28110153
>North Vietnam signed a peace treaty to get America to stop bombing Hanoi.
And then they conquered South Vietnam, when the entire point of the Vietnam War was to keep the South from going commie

>Saddam has been dead for 10 years, and the new government has firm control of the country.
>has firm control

>The people responsible for 9/11 are either dead or in custody and the Afghan government has control of the country.
>has control

>>28110163
>ISIS down to Mosul
>Iraq breddy fuqed!

>>28110157
>US funds and arms ISIS
Not exactly. The ringleaders were insurgent prisoners the Iraqi's basically just let free after we left. The core of their soldiers were the Sons of Iraq, a militant group we funded as a special forces element who actually gave a damn about the country, but, again, the government of Iraq refused to fund after we left, leaving ISIS to recruit them. Their primary funding was via robbing Iraqi banks, which is running out and the people fleeing their territory means nobody to tax and sustain the new "government." The US equipment they got is primarily through one of two sources: Captures from the cowards in the Iraqi regular army, and some dipshits dropping supplies for the Kurdish Peshmerga repeatedly in the wrong places.

>>28110196
>>28110216
>NO DON'T MAKE ME PAY ATTENTION TO ACTUAL DETAILS, THOSE DON'T FIT MY WORLDVIEW, AMERICA WAS CHASED OUT OF VIETNAM BY RICE FARMERS WITH RUSTY AK'S!!!!

>>28110157
>US funds and arms ISIS

Things that only happen in Russian media, the same media that unironically claims Russia is bombing ISIS.

>>28110205
>>28110216
Technically speaking, the US was militarily victorious in Vietnam. The NVA was losing basically every battle, and the Tet Offensive was nothing but a desperate last-ditch attack with little overall effect. It just killed public support and the resulting popularity downturn caused the withdrawal.

>>28110257
I think we a need a Vietnam War bingo

>>28110257
>Technically speaking, the US was militarily victorious in Vietnam.
No the US LOST in vietnam!
Militarily, strategically, numerical, the US LOST

And then the whole area went communist as soon as the US left

Wasn't this thread about the F-35?

>>28110283
>herp derp I just know pop history

>>28110301
>herp derp lets ignore the casualties of our allies or permanently injured americans so we can claim a superior kill ratio

>>28110271
With "it ain't me" as a free space

Some other squares could include

>Never Lost A Battle
>M14 was a good gun
>Rice Farmers with rusty AKs
>Paris Peace Accords
>If only it weren't for the liberals

>>28103767
... Wait, how is a canard any worse than the tail surfaces for radar return??

>>28110157
This is what grasping at straws looks like.

>>28110315
>Ignores actual combat results for "muh loss"

>>28110283
>Militarily, strategically, numerical, the US LOST
>North Vietnam only signed the Paris Peace Accords because their leadership was bored, not because of how the war was going

>>28110346
>ignores that "muh kill counts" encouraged outright lying about enemy losses and shooting civilians to make quotas

What sort of faggot "degree" are you attempting to get? Or was this project something this is barely even tangentially related to the F-35? Instead you are using this as an opportunity to out yourself as an autistic to the rest of the class who will not give a single fuck about this stupid survey of yours.

>>28110401
>Implying that doesn't fall under the congress/pentagon micromanaging of the war, and you still haven't presented any actual lost battles

>>28110498
http://www.g2mil.com/lost_vietnam.htm

>>28110619
>Implying that changes the fact the NVA were spent, Tet was a desperate last-ditch attack, or that the US gave up on fighting, not lost the war

>>28110689
>fail the numero uno objective, the entire reason why US forces were in Vietnam
>not a loss, guyz, never defeated in battle guyz

>>28110712
>Implying PR loss due to faulty cause to go to war is a military loss

>>28110858
>implying the US accomplished any military objectives
>But we killed a whole lot of em, if you don't count deaths by our allies :)

>>28110712
>citing g2mil for anything

Last time I checked a history book, South Vietnam still existed when North Vietnam surrendered via peace treaty and Murrican's left.

>>28110880
The problem wasn't achieving objectives. They were constantly performed successfully. The problem was badly-conceived strategy micromanaged from Washington that lead to pointless battles, often repeatedly over the same ground, and airstrike planning based on zero military experience.

>>28111076
>implying I cited g2mil
>implying you know better than the people that led, fought, and orchestrated the Vietnam War

>>28111093
>implying I cited g2mil

The reply chain implies you did :^)

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>>28111126

You might have to try a different project, anon, because the answer is "Fuckall."

>>28111201
>Spreyfag spotted