Europe's sleeping arsenals

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"Here in Gramsh, a remote mountain town that was once the site of the Albanian military's only AK-47 factory, which was cleaned out in the looting spree, people speak openly of the trade in illicit arms.

Local residents involved in the trade say many of the weapons are sold to Albanians in neighboring Macedonia or in the Kosovo area of Serbia, which has an Albanian majority. But even these townspeople have difficulty saying exactly where the weapons ultimately end up.

''We don't know if Macedonia is the last place they go to, or if they go beyond that,'' said one local resident who claimed to have bought thousands of rifles.

Six weeks ago, the factory here had crates of assault rifles stacked in its warehouses, but after the looters struck only broken wooden cases and empty ammunition containers were left scattered in the factory buildings and yard.

The looters' booty from this town alone amounted to 110,000 assault rifles, the plant's manager, Marenglen Senja, said.

Some of the rifles, residents say, have been stashed away by local people in the hope of selling them to other civilians in Albania. But many, they say, are being sold in large quantities to Albanian brokers who get them to Macedonia over trading routes that predate any of the current national borders in this region. "

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/04/24/world/albanian-village-finds-boom-in-gun-running.html

The AK's are almost all Type-56's (which makes sense for Albania) but I'm curious about the significant number of East German MPi's in the Picture.

>>28044188
Yup.

I kind of wish they got more sophisticated weapons though.

Like modern western arms and smuggled or 'grey zone' firearms. Hell we know from the past that criminals and military collectors have amassed explosives and artillery in the past (see german with a non demilitarized panther and the Swedish biker wars with a stolen AT4 used to attack a clubhouse).

Also if a happenings took place, I'd like to see what kind of toys the right wing radicals and militias break out. Like the no gun brits pulled off with the Ulster Defense boys.

Imagine an EDL captured and painted Challanger 2 for instance rolling through a muslim ghetto for instance.

>>28047069
>Challanger 2 for instance rolling through a muslim ghetto
kek!

>>28044188
same thing in the former Yugoslavian nations too. Evey once in a while the EU will sponsor a buy back and ppl take their odd rusted rifles and get money for them, while keeping their better condition weapons under ground.

>>28047001
they were probably given to other countries that kept the AK pattern rifles as it was pointless to keep east german arms when they were using western counterparts.

>>28047156
Yup.

And painted with the England cross, flying its colors of white and red.

Muh dick.

>>28044188
And let's all remember why there was "civil unrest" in Albania. Everyone put all their money in huge pyramid schemes, and when it collapsed their economy, everyone was so mad, like it wasn't their own retarded fault. Fucking geniuses.....

I've read that Polish warehouses have tons of MP-40's, but they don't give them to the market because of many countries simply don't allow automatic machine guns and because of supply and demand.

I know a guy in Sweden who bought a fully working MP-40 for 700 Euro's. In the US alone you'd pay something like 15k.

>>28047069
Lots of ww2 stuff would pop pretty much everywhere.
Also as a europoor i would love to take one of these albanian type 56s home.

>>28044188
I hope they surplus it out to Americans before it gets used in Europe.

Euro fags can go fuck themselves, I want Balkan surplus.

>>28044188
We have a ton of stuff in Bosnia too. There is an arms trade but a lot of people are stockpiling for the next war.

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>>28050284

>stockpiling for the next war
wait what

>>28050312
Last war many Bosnians didn't have many guns as the process was kind of hard in Jugoslavija and when things kicked off the Serbs inherited most of JNA stockpiles and we had no coast so we really couldn't import anything for sometime, while being surrounded by two countries at war with you. It left a sour taste in people's mouth and they don't want to be caught with their pants down again so a lot of people are buying guns and explosives. It's cheaper for me to buy a pack of 6 grenades than it is to fill a tank of gas.
http://www.undp.org/content/undp/en/home/ourwork/ourstories/bosnia---herzegovina--arms-meltdown-movement-forces-firepower-fr.html

>>28050324
That's pretty cool. Do Montenegrins own a lot of guns? I was there once on vacation, it was ok.

>>28050330
I'm not sure but probably, you have to consider that when the war ended a lot of people just went home with their guns, that means they took ATGMs, recoilless rifles, RPGs, all types of guns you can imagine and they often pop up for sale if you know the right people, also when USA was rebuilding iraqs military they bought a lot of guns from dealers in Bosnia but not all of them were sent to Iraq

>>28050330
what places did you go
I wonder if it is more difficult to travel there given the current situation
I would like to visit Belgrade and krusevac
perhaps even Ajdovscina

I think its fucking hilarious. EU is trying to fuck over legal gun owners, doesn´t do shit about the illegal guns that are in the hands of criminals.

>>28051077

That's gun control in a nutshell in every country it's ever been tried.

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>>28044218
>I can sell you an AK for 40$
>A man in the crowd shouted "I could sell you them for 20 a piece!"

Jesus, I'm moving to Albania!

>>28048397
If Hughes ever got repealed. Poland could flood the usa with them.

>>28051148
Nope.
You forgot about import laws. They'd have to be demolished and then new receivers and barrels would have to be manufactured stateside.

So, is this where the guns in the Paris attacks came from?

>>28051537
Obama.

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So how easy is it to get these weapons in Northern and Western Europe?

Could someone in France or Germany take a "road trip" to Bosnia or Albania and pick up a few and bring them home?

I'm trying to understand the dynamics of the coming unrest in Europe.

>>28051781
For a comparison, in the United States people will often put thousands of $ of marijuana in their personal car and drive from the "production region" on the west coast to NY where the price is high because weed is hard to grow there. It's not common to get caught because you can just say you're on a road trip and if you follow traffic laws you'll probably never even see a cop

>>28051781
yes, go to the shitty ghettos in western europe, like brussels, and eastern europeans will sell you guns/give you a seat in a smuggler run

>>28051781
>I'm trying to understand the dynamics of the coming unrest in Europe.
I'm wondering this too. What's it like, and what predominantly caused it?

>>28050324
Do you need to know the right people, or can you just go to a bar and ask the bartender if he knows a guy that sells guns?

>>28051894
It's all about connections.

>>28051781
Probably not easy right now.

However, Brussells are trying to get the rest of the Balkans into the EU and Shengen area.

Also Turkey with that recent deal worth billions.

The Schengen Agreement means completely free movement within the countries, no checks or balances.

Given Turkey's population being 77 million, the "Only 1%" claim means there could be maybe 770,000 jihadists, and possibly more with the Syrian Civil War bluring the eastern border, over there.

And Turkey's only European borders are with the Balkans.

That basically means that up to 770,000 Jihadists could have free movement to Western Europe, and their only bordering is through a hotbed of lost military weapons, if the EU beuraucrats get their way.

>>28044188
The IRA stole weapons and a million rounds of ammunition from the Army during the Troubles, but most of it was recovered.

Still, there's supposedly around 250,000 illegal/unregistered weapons and 150,000 registered here (amounting to 1:10 people have a gun) in Ireland, and we still have a bunch of IRA explosives lying around the place.

>>28051873
sovjet fall, balkan wars, corrupt as fuck governments and people on the borders of EU
and the schengen to facilitate it all.

>>28051921
no. its as easy as getting drugs.

also bretty good prices. max 700 euro for yugo ak. shitty serbs and chink ones are 200+

pistols go for 50-150 buckaroos

>>28044188
Norway has 80 000 G3A3s unnacounted for.

>>28044218
>many of the weapons are sold to Albanians in neighboring Macedonia or in the Kosovo area of Serbia, which has an Albanian majority.
one day faggots, one day...

>>28051974
>>28051921
>>28051825
These answers seem like Amerifat answers.

I suspect the average European would have no idea who to ask to buy an illegal gun
>hurr just go to the ghetto it's 50 bucks

>>28051974
700 euro's for a yugo is a scam, I knew people that were selling Bulgarian made 74's for 400 levs or so, then again that was for bulk orders, never really dealt with a small time dealer. It's also been some time, haven't been back to Eastern Europe in quite a while.

>>28052007
a finnish friend of mine bought a 9mm 1911 in hamburg the first time he was there. was like a little over 100 euros.

of course someone who has never had any contact with any criminal enviroments wont know how to.
but the thing is you dont have to have contacts, as long as you know how the system works

>>28052036
700 is shipped to brussels appearently
and the prices ranges from 400 to 700

>>28051974
Well, what I meant was what will come of the unrest, like the other guy said. Like, full on SHTF? Upset people and rioters? Here, from a scale of Ferguson to Balkan, what would the current unrest lead to?

>>28051972
You neglect to mention that the vast majority of UVF/UDA guns were 'stolen' from (donated by) the UDR/British army and the RUC

>>28052051
Shipped isn't bad then, still wouldn't pay 400 for a yugo when I could get a type 56 for half the price.

>>28052007
>I suspect the average European would have no idea who to ask to buy an illegal gun
Hence the

>it's all about connections
Try keeping up with your own news. A German arms dealer got nailed for selling weapons to the Paris attackers.

>>28044188
>anyone else get warm and fuzzy
You're a fool if you think these weapons got out to 'the people' and were somehow used in their righteous defense, and not to commit some atrocity.

>>28051781
In Shengen frontiers are very porous. Everything is made to facilitate exchanges, and customs sure as hell don't check everything.

So basically yes, criminals go to the balkans, buy AKs to contacts they have over there and simply drive back. As mentioned by others, you still need connections.

I guess they could also use smaller roads if they wanted, crossing mountains and stuff. No permanent customs up here.

Drugs also come from North Africa by boat all the time, so guns can too.

There are also stories from the fall of the Union. Back them some people drove over to germany and scored some fine loot, even regular gun entusiasts.

So criminal get AKs ans shit very easily. Here in France, there are also quite a lot of illegal weapons floating around in the hands of regular civilians. 3 main reasons :

-two world wars. It is not that uncommon to have old Mausers, Chamelot Delvigne revolvers, Lugers or STENs stashed away by your grandpa.

-civilian ownership used to be a lot more relaxed until quite recently. In the 80s you could buy a semi auto 22 or a pump shotgun at the mall. Now both are a hoop jumping nightmare, but everyone didn't bother with having them grandfathered and simply kept them. Also a crapton of vintage CC handguns : 6.35s, velodogs, .32 Brownings and shit.

-hunting in France has been a common man activity for a long time, as opposed to countries such as Britain or Germany where it's more of a rich/noble thing. So there is a metric (duh) fuckton of old shotguns laying around, sitting in the attic or above the chimney in various states of disrepair. 12 gauge side by sides, 20 gauges, 16 gauges, 36 gauges, 9mm flobert, pinfires, military bolt guns converted to smoothbore shotguns... Very few of them are registered.

Some turned over their guns when they were outlawed, some registered them, and some said nothing and kept them for SHTF. Heck, I'm sure a lot of old hunters never even knew about the changes of laws.

>>28052053
I'm mainly curious about a few issues I see rising in Europe:
1) growing Muslim immigration and consequent crime, terrorism and ethnic tension, and the native anger/backlash against that,

2) breakdown of the EU due to financial issues and reimposition of border controls & demands for renewed sovereignty because of migration

Let's imagine: in 2017 after a few more terrorist attacks and continued mass immigration, the Front National wins an election in France and Muslims start rioting. In this situation war becomes very possible.

They access people have to weapons is an important factor in predicting how they'll act in time of crisis. This is why I want to get an idea of how much access Europeans have to weapons especially military-grade weapons

>>28047069
Militias revolting against government would be Vietnam 2.0. The plan would be to cause Civil Unrest by taking out power grid. The weapons I mainly see in use are AR-15s and AK-47 variants. Russia would probably send discreet aid.

>>28047069
people would hit national guard armories and loot the fuck out of them. there is one right by the ghetto section of my town that the black guys found out has M4's and all kinds of goodies in the cages, they got caught breaking in a few times since they are fucking mongos and thought they could break the locks with a claw hammer.

>>28052176
I short, criminals have easy access to comblock weaponry while civilians are stuck with very regulated legal guns (that would probably get confiscated at the first sign of uprising) and outdated, rusty shit that will land them in jail if they get caught.

>>28052172
Very good info. Thank you.

If I was in a right wing group in Europe right now, I would be taking a "bros road trip" to Bosnia.

"Yes officer we had a great time hiking and seeing the beautiful old castles!"

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>>28044188

>all those beautiful MPis
>probably now destroyed

All that glorious east german technology, gone to waste.

>>28052216
this is strange to me because also near where I live there is a national guard armory, right next to the ghetto, do they really think it is a good idea to put armories near ghettos?

>>28050284
that lines up with what a guy i knew when i was in my early 20's from over there told me. he was half serb, half bosnian, and hated everyone. he said people learned from the last time and everyone with two brain cells to rub together has a bunch of shit hidden in the walls or cached somewhere close by and easily at hand.

its what a lot of folks been doing here in the states, when it pops off over here, its going to be civil war 2: balkan bugaloo 9-11 times 2356..

>>28052308
Lol my homie in Montana has thousands of rounds and some unknown number of rifles buried in field on his property in case the Feds come for it

>>28052302
personally no, i think its a fucking retarded idea. in miami during the hurricane season of 04 when everything went to hell, they looted the generators from the armories in the area, because they could, and they were worth gold at the time.

the joke from king of the hill about the tanks are easily stolen, but the bulldozers were locked up tight is true.

i bet the brothers would be boosting the hummvees and putting rims on them and stereos in them. during the happening.

>>28052219
It's worse than that- the average Euro civilian will have nothing- most don't even have friends who own legal guns. The criminals will have all sorts of guns and give them to their friends for the "uprisings" in the local slums.

It's hard to defend yourself with sticks when the other guy has AKs, even if there are fewer of the other guys than of yours.

>>28052007
You could just ask any shady militaria dealer, these guys get ignorant people try to sell them live weapons all the time.

Hell, one guy had someone try to bring in a whole crate of hand grenades.

>>28052541
Yeah most people would just die or be enslaved. Or try to emigrate to the middle east, kek.

>>28052003
link?

>>28051934
Turkey is one of, if not the most, secular and moderate predominately Muslim nation(s)
there are not 770k Jihadists in Turkey
there are fewer than 50k in ISIS total

>>28050324
Well if the Migrant crisis does go south you'll definitely have enough fire power to make both sides fuck off.

>>28053230
>there are fewer than 50k in ISIS total

>>28053629
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/11/world/meast/isis-syria-iraq/

ISIS claims between 100k and 200k

>>28053739
but the CIA estimates under 32k

>>28053745
They would know, they created the damn thing after all

>>2805120
>braze folding stock closed
>da is pistol, it was always pistol
>import it legally around the bullshit import regs
>pay 200 dollarydoo machine gun nfa fee like any other nfa weapon if the Hughes amendment goes bye bye
>break solder
>gg machine gun classification supersedes sbr status

Rev up dem trusts boys if we win that suit, mp40's for all

>>28053230
Turkey was founded on the basis of being secular but the Islamists are rising in power. The current Turkish president Erdogan has publicly said "I don't like this term moderate muslim. You are either a muslim or not, there is no moderate"

Sure, the turks living in the capital cities are educated and secular but the majority of their population are muslim goatfuckers just like the rest of the middle east. Who hate infidels just as much as ISIS. I wish you leftist kucks would stop hiding behind this "moderate muslim" meme. Even if a muslim isn't taking up arms against you, they support an ideology based on the ideal of destroying the west and creating the califate.

>>28053910
that's absolutely absurd
are all Indonesians out to get America too?

>>28053951
No.

Them and the muslim central asians are against the chinks (but need them for moneys) So they need to be nice to america or else russia and china will spitroast half of the Muslim population.

Its why we need to contain these shits by uniting the world against them.

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>reading through this thread and wondering how people talk like getting a gun in Europe even illegally seem easy.

>>28053861
>If we win
This is what I would want
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-CRk45RBB0

>>28052172
I flew from Glasgow to Paris this summer, the guy at the customs desk didn't say word, stamped my (Canadian) passport and I was on my way.
Didn't even scan it or anything, was kind of shocked to be honest.

>surely this open border thing isn't a bad idea right?

>>28052007
Brussels here, pretty sure I could have found a weapon in a single day.
I'm nit so sure it would still be as easy during the current terror alert, but still, violent crime and kalasjnikovs are rather common here. It's not rare to hear about a violent crime with heavy weapons.

>>28054111
I know right. Chances of you being able to by an AK illegally in say the UK is fairly slim. Its not a case of just popping down to your local illegal weapons merchant.

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>>28052302
When they were built 30-70 years ago they weren't in the ghetto, the ghetto sprang up around them.

>>28047814

PJ O'Rourke's article on that is one of the funniest things I've ever read.

>>28054111
Connections connections. Getting the right ones might be hard, but once you're here getting an illegal gun IS easy.

Of course most people don't even think about it, unless they're from the Balkans.

>>28053861
>>28054352
Is there still an ongoing Hughes lawsuit?

>>28044188
>There's mass corruption in Eastern Europe

And more news at 11!

>>28044188
Lawdy at all dem SKSes

I figured there would be more AKs than SKS

>>28051873
Christianity/Islam

>>28050324
That mg42 about to be destroyed in the article photo...

>Those DDR Mpis
Fuck.

>>28047069
fuck off back to /pol/, your kind are not welcome here.

>>28055947
*Islam
ftfy

This came to mind when I read that NY times article

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZQdaEFa_60

any euro bros interested in a road trip to Bosnia?

>>28056105
Why?

All I want to see is a nice looking English flag painted modern Challenger 2 driven by private paramilitaries on public streets.

Hell the EDL guys could culturally enrich them by letting all the muslim kids ride the tank and let them try pork rinds without saying they are pork.