Daily Japanese Thread DJT #1834

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I finished Tae Kim and have done around 500 Kanji at this point but still can't get past the first page of the Yotsuba manga from the guide. I still can't put everything together to read it. Anyone else have this issue this early on?

I don't want to learn Japanese?!

>>17482333
You do. You just don't know it yet.

>>17482328
>Anyone else have this issue this early on?
'Everybody' would not be a risky bet to say. Use the reading pack. Refer back to TK, often.

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>>17482333
Yeah I'm gonna need you to read the guide, install anki and start right away, that'd be great

>>17482328
You're not supposed to wait until finishing TaeKim to start reading. That and the fact that you've said "done 500 Kanji" makes me hope that this is bait.

If you are not baiting, then use the reading pack and refer to one of the popular grammar references if you can't figure out what a certain part of speech is doing. Good luck!

Alternatively, try some of the alternative reading materials from the CoR, like graded readers and hiragana only fairy tales. They seem to have worked for many people as an introduction to reading.

>>17482376
I thought the guide said, "when you finish your grammar guide begin reading" or something like that

>>17482381
Yes, but I'm one of those people who disagree with that and I like to mention that in every thread.

>>17482381
"The Guide" might say that, but both Sakubi and Tae Kim tell you to start reading well before they're over.

>>17482376
>You're not supposed to wait until finishing TaeKim to start reading
To be honest I think it would be a good idea to finish the guide first. All of tae kim is really essential, if you try to read anything without having at least a basic understanding, you're gonna have a bad time. Grammar isn't really like vocab where you can easily look it up.

>>17482376
>That and the fact that you've said "done 500 Kanji" makes me hope that this is bait.
Why? I made myself a deck with all jouyou kanji before I started reading and studied them for a month. After that and finishing Tae Kim, reading was easy as shit (without any "reading packs" or whatever).
>inb4 don't learn kanji, just learn words
Shit like this results in people posting three completely different kanji and going "how on Earth do I tell them apart?"

>>17482403
>>inb4 don't learn kanji, just learn words
>Shit like this results in people posting three completely different kanji and going "how on Earth do I tell them apart?"

Not really, that just means that they haven't studied words containing all of those three kanji yet.

>>17482391
I don't completely disagree with you, but I still feel like reading easy material is the best way to really "cement the essentials". I don't think you need to wait until finishing to read some of the "baby level" materials I mentioned.
Of course, it's all a question of pace. If you can finish your guide in one week, you might as well just do that if you think that's the right way, but if the guide is taking you a month, you should just start reading after completing the essentials.
It just seems like some people regard "starting to read" as some really tough goal that you have to prepare very seriously for, when in fact it's just the first step, and is itself the best way to learn the things you would be "preparing" for it.
>>17482403
If there are any similar Kanji causing you trouble, you can just compare them side by side when you encounter them.

Can you say すみません with an upward inflection in the same way English speakers say 'Excuse me?' to ask people to repeat something? I'm afraid that saying 分かるません will just cut the conversation dead because they assume I'm a dumb foreigner - I want to give it another attempt.

>>17482468
Meant 分かりません, my bad.

おはようおにいちゃん

おにいちゃんがげんきだと

うれしい

>>17482468
I think you'd have to combine すみません with a phrase like もう一度お願いします

>>17482481
That sounds perfect, thanks for the help.

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>>17481909
余計なことは
言わない方がいい
>You'd better mind your tongue.

i dont get 余計なことは

>>17482577
lit: don't say unnecessary things

Did the clipboard inserter addon stop working for anyone else? It got updated recently.

>>17482608
We should just rename this to daily clipboard inserter thread

>>17482608
Yeah, check out the previous thread.

>>17482478
まんじゅうを食べながら超嬉しいよ

>>17482836
>ながら超嬉しい
I don't believe it's natural to use い-adjectives with ながら like that

>>17482852
yeah when i read it again it looks super weird to not do a secondary action

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I started reading through the HJGP. This shit is amazing, everything is so clear.

>>17482903
Handbook of Japanese Grammar Patterns?

Is there a version of DOJG with the romaji edited out?

>>17483000
https://core6000.neocities.org/hjgp/

>>17483032
サンキュー

>>17482600
even more lit: unnecessary things not being said-way is good haha japanese is dumb

I'm currently studying with genki I , are there any guides that I should read along side or is this sufficient? I'm making decent process so far

>>17483144
Genki I+II is good enough to get you started on grammar. If you like the textbook/workbook approach, you should continue with Tobira next.

>>17483144
Genki I and II cover surprisingly little grammar. You should read a guide designed for self-learners alongside it.

>>17483144
Read Sakubi if you want some concise grammar goodness.

>>17482836
おまんじゅうたべよー

>>17483171
>>17483177
>>17483186
Thank you for the advice anons! Grenki is nice but has a lot of emphasis on group work ,sucks for a self learner

What if I told you, that you don't need to study grammar to learn Japanese. And that Japanese babies don't study grammar.

>>17483677
Yeah, I know what you mean. I started learning with Genki, but immediately stopped when I realized that the DJT endorsed grammar guides will help me more in reading.

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>>17483677

Can somebody tell me the best Anki packs?

>>17483811
What do you mean by packs? It all depends on what you wanna learn.

>>17483777
I'd tell you you're an idiot.

>>17483842
for hiragana/katakana

>>17483811
Your own

>>17483848
I guess all of the fluent Japanese people that didn't study grammar are idiots that don't know their language

>>17483887
Are you baiting or are you actually retarded?

>>17483777
Of course they don't, because they're babies. They study it in school. That's why they have 国語 classes, just as you had english classes

>>17483901
>implying he got this far

>>17483887
Can you show me a single person who became fluent in Japanese in adulthood without studying grammar?

>>17482403
>I made myself a deck with all jouyou kanji before I started reading and studied them for a month.
All 2200 or whatever of them in a month? What exactly about them did you study?
>reading was easy as shit
lol

>>17483928
Just mnemonics. I used KLC.

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is this せん at the very last sentence the contracted form of しない as the English translation implies... or is it the せむ->せん->するだろう bitch from 古語?

I know you guys don't like it when people from here go full Dunning Kruger riding over professional translators, but the "not use for the individual" sounds weird and I have had problems with 古語 stuff and cases like this always ring a bell.

>>17483974
おもしろくなさそう

>>17483974
It looks like せむ and not せぬ to me. We shall combine our respective powers into one. (That's what guilds do I think.)

>>17483911
Khatzumoto

>>17483901
I guess the kids that didn't pay attention in those classes aren't fluent in Japanese

>>17483901
Also those classes are just putting useless labels onto things they already know intrinsically. Grammar does not actually exist.

http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/there-is-no-grammar/

>>17484245
Humans crave order and consistency, it is natural

>>17484245
Holy shit, another one. Yeah, everything is a spook and a social construct. Now go away.

>>17484245
>http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/there-is-no-grammar/
>:D
>this is SPARTAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!
You're using this shit as an argument?

Do we report people like him or something?

>>17484258
The reality of language is that there is no consistency. To learn one as if there is restrains your ability learn something outside of the patterns you were told of. Hence why >>17482328 has trouble going through one page. If they spent that time just listening to Japanese instead of reading grammar guides they could have just read the page, inferences a couple of things tentatively based on context, maybe mined a couple of words and then moved on.

>>17484289
The grammar changes, but it doesn't mean it is inconsistent. The proof for its consistency is my post, right here. You can understand it, right? It's probably because I'm using a protocol we both agreed to - English. With it's vocabulary and grammar rules. Take any of them away and suddenly you can't understand me. And they are not "useless", it's cool to think of something as of "verb" instead of "oh, shit like 'to go', 'to walk', etc.", it helps a lot when thinking about a language. Especially a foreign one.

https://youtu.be/ecHZO_zHBCA?t=44s
Listen to this girl say「かしこまりました。」
What are your impressions?

>>17484336
The same way I say it, what about it?

>>17484310
No one agreed to any "protocol"

>>17484339
>The same way I say it
You're adorable if that's the case, and consequently I want to touch your butt, man.

>>17483854
Just use the one in the CoR and write them

>>17484310
You think it helps but it's really only good for meaningless short term evidence of your own improvement. It doesn't do anything but hold you back in the long term, after listening to the language for thousands of hours and reading hundreds of books/whatever it you read.

>>17484387
What if I do the thousands of hours of listening and reading plus three months of speaking and total immersion but I still study grammar as a largely consistent system and learn ALL the grammar terms, what does that make me?
Stupid for wasting my time and not studying exactly the same way you do?
It must be hard living in a world where everyone but yourself is stupid.

I just read the following line " なにのってきてんのよ！"

Is that the same as " 何入ってきてんのよ！"

It kinda sounds like the english expression "What's gotten into you?" is that an accurate translation?

>>17484421
who called you stupid man kiotsuke

>>17484356
>No one agreed to any "protocol"
Yeah, I forgot you're speaking your snowflake語 that just happens to be compatible with English.

>>17484488
No I'm speaking the language that has been drilled into my brain through exposure without thinking about the grammar rules at all. The goal is to eventually be able to speak Japanese naturally in the same way right? Without having to think about the rules? So why not skip the rules entirely?

>>17484531
Adults can use their more developed mental faculties to learn to use and manipulate a grammar system and learn a language in ways languageless children cannot. It doesn't make it impossible to learn to speak and understand at a native level if they do it this way, and it's not as daunting as starting to learn through immersion from scratch.

>>17484436
調子に乗る

>>17484531
>The goal is to eventually be able to speak Japanese naturally in the same way right?
What? I don't want to speak this thing, I just want to date heroines in visual novels. Go back to /int/ and spread your screwed up wisdom there.

I just went through the hiragana in about 2 weeks, how long can I expect the katakana to take?

>>17484615
1 week

>>17484436
のる into what? I think there are several candidates there. Like car, rhythm, flow of conversation.

>>17484612
Obviously you're not thinking about the future where we'll have augmented reality VNs that require speech.

>>17484634
Will I live long enough?

>>17484647
Will you die within the next decade?

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私の日本人友達はしばしば「あなたの日本語の文法が悪いだ」と言う。どうしお？日本語の文を読んでも、文法が惨い。最近、私が本当にうんざりしている。

私は日本人で生まれたいだ。

>>17484704
明らかに読書が足りない

>>17484704
>文法が悪いだ
なんか失敗がバカすぎて訂正する気はない

>>17484723
あなたは自身にどのぐらい読書するの？

>>17484704
But we just agreed that grammar doesn't exist? Your friends are wrong.

>>17484531
this, i speak my native language and english language fluently i don't even know what conjugation is, i wouldn't know what pronouns are if not for SJWs, i learned english in elementary school AEATT style just reading the internet and watching tv and movies and listening to music. it's just much more prevalent than japanese so it's easy. i don't know how people who only know their own non-english language don't get bored of the internet

>>17484728
友達はよく訂正するよ。けど、私は友達を依存して過ぎた。

>>17484704
>悪いだ
>どうしお
>生まれたいだ

>>17484737
なに。。。

>>17484746
see >>17484245

>>17484744
説明ください。

>>17484751
この返事は意味をなさない。私の日本人友達は文法の単語をよく使うよ。

こんばんわみなさん

>>17484659
Will it really happen so soon?

>>17484752
Things that conjugate as i-adjectives don't take だ in the 終止形, it should just be 悪い, 生まれたい.

>>17484740
I learned the language the same way, but I don't claim grammar doesn't exist.
>i don't know how people who only know their own non-english language don't get bored of the internet
This a shitload of times. In my company people are laughing at memes from ~2008 because they were recently translated.

>>17484752
悪いんだ
どうしよう
生れたいんだ

>>17484764
どうも。。。

>>17484742
過ぎる attaches to the 連用形 of verbs, it should be しすぎた.

>>17484786
してすぎた is すぎた attached to してる

>>17484767
>>17484786
>>17484793
日本語が嫌いです！　どうもう

>>17484800
inb4 someone tries correcting this

>>17484800
>>17484803
>どうもう
どう思う*

>>17484803
嫌いは i の連用形じゃないよ

>>17484793
I don't think that's natural sounding. I don't think すぎる attaches to perfective conjugations like している. And when you combine している with すぎた you've got a double perfective thing going on.

>>17484821
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22%E3%81%A6%E3%81%84%E3%81%99%E3%81%8E%E3%82%8B%22&nfpr=1

>>17484828
Okay but I still don't think he used してる on purpose and that しすぎた would be better.

>>17482328
That's normal. There's a big difference between knowing ABOUT a language (reading grammar guides and textbooks) and KNOWING a language.

Also, get rid of this idea that you have to comprehend everything you read. If you don't understand a sentence, don't waste more than a minute or two thinking about it. The goal is massive exposure, so you want to read as much as possible, even if you don't really understand it very well.

This is why I think reading VNs with a texthooker + Rikaisama/Yomichan or reading a HTML-formatted LN with Rikaisama/Yomichan is a much better idea for a beginner than reading Yotsuba, even though Yotsuba may be easier. You waste so much less time looking up words with the former methods which allows you to read a lot more for the same time investment. It's also much easier to get immersed in something (and thus have fun reading it) when you don't have to keep breaking away from it to go and manually look up all the words you don't know (which is a lot in the beginning) in a dictionary.

>>17484766
On the other hand, there are probably whole worlds of maymays we don't know because we only know English.

As my Chinese improves I'm discovering a whole new internet and maymays

>>17484828
>less than 5,000 results

I rarely, if ever, hear that construction.

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>>17485082
i for one enjoy memes in my native language, i pity those who have not experienced ylilauta the way it's meant to be experienced

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I have a small doubt that has always plagued me.
When 中 is used after a word, like ゲーム中 for example, do you read it as なか or チュウ? Kun and On readings have always been a problem of mine. Hope you anons can help.

>>17485113
ちゅう

>>17485113
ちゅう or じゅう

>>17485113
Usually チュウ, that's what various furigana taught me.

もしもＸするなら、Ｘする

Does this mean the obvious "If we're gonna do it, let's do it already." Or does anyone know if this is an idiom?

>>17484767
産んであげる

>>17485174
やさしいね

キサマに教えてやるぜぃ
わたしはゲイ

>>17485189
そんなことないわ

ばかね

おみそしるのむ？

うんこを食べる時どの調理方で食べるが好きですか

Big shoutouts to whoever is putting the Touch subtitles up on kitsunekko, if it is indeed a DJT guy doing it. I'm thinking it might be the same guy who did the LoGH subs. Anyway thank you.

>>17484704
と言っていた**

>>17482577
lit: you'd better not say unnecessary things

Anyone ever take tutoring/do language exchanges on a website like italki? What the fuck do you even talk about with the people? I've been kind of wanting to give it a try to actually work on my speaking, but I'm such a boring person that I feel like I'd have nothing to talk about with the person.

Anyone every had a Japanese girl ask to language exchange on Skype, but you're a creepy basement dweller so you panic and ignore her?

>>17485521
I've never had a girl ask anything to me. You have to go back, normal.

>>17485521
dont worry she only wants your eigo and shell disappear forever when she grows tired of you

PSA: if you're in a slump with anki don't be afraid of stopping flood of new cards for a few days to get more comfortable with the old ones, i feel a lot better now

>>17484758
>文法の単語
someone explain, is this a japanese thing?

>>17484740
Your English is far from grammatically perfect and you would do horribly on any test that focuses on proper English grammar. There's a large difference between being able to speak a language and being able to speak it well.

>>17485750
theres also a difference between speaking a language and writing in it as well as writing in an academic setting as opposed to in a shitty thread on 4chan lmao

>>17485750
This. I'm honestly shit at my native language due to being exposed to 3 languages at the same time when i was young.
I can speak the language but i still have these weird hiccups or archaic ways of speaking so some people think i'm an outsider, which honestly brings me great shame. On paper my language is actually pretty good since i studied grammar hardcore in high school because i was actually worried about my fluency, but when i open my mouth absolute shit comes out.

/blog

I've been reading and i came up across には quite a few times.
Is it a compound particle?

>>17485785
it's a chicken

>>17485750
>fluently=grammatically perfect
thanks guess i learn something new every day mr muhh capital letters and punctuation on a russian matryoshka doll forum

>>17485785
Yeah it's a case particle and a bound particle put together
Sometimes people say it にゃ

>>17485822
You're really, really underestimating what the word "fluent" means, anon.

>>17485765
Learning grammar and overthinking things in general is why you suck at talking

>>17485867
こんにちにゃ

fluent actually literally doesn't mean anything at all

あの学生のような嬉しいです。
That student appears to be happy.

Right/Wrong?

>>17485944
wrong bro

>>17485944
Very wrong

>>17485944
あの学生は寂しそう(´・ω・`)

Is there a way to move down the definition list in rikai?

>>17485974
sorry to poo poo on your "funnay" post but this is also wrong

>>17486006
if you say so

>>17485974
>>17485954
>>17485953
Please help me understand ~ような. TK says that it's used when "something has the appearance of something else". So let's see...

あの学生のような先生です。
Sensei appears to be that student
Sensei looks like that student
Sensei is like that student

Any of those?

>>17486040
that-determiner student-genitive way-genitive teacher-copula

>>17486040
If you want to understand ような or anything else you should analyze real Japanese sentences instead of your own invented version of the language.

>>17486040
your problem is that you are parsing the sentence like this
[ [ あの学生 ] のような] 先生 です
when you should be parsing the sentence like this
あの [ [ 学生のような] 先生 ] です

>>17486006
Why?

Thank you anons. I'll just mentally bookmark this and resolve it later when I first encounter ような in the wild.

別に背負えなくはないものだね

Too many negatives. "It's not really something you couldn't be burdened with." Or did I flip it?

>>17486130
It just hedges a description into "seems like" in exactly the same way that ようだ hedges a statement. Pretty straightforward really.

>>17486148
Ｉ　ｃａｎ　ｄｏ　ｉｔ。

>>17486199
Sorry, your snarky comment is lost on me.

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>>17486040
None of those. You can't learn Japanese.

>>17486148
It's hard to say, your English sentence reads really poorly. Something like "it's not as if you can't..." would probably fit better.

>>17486148
The "couldn't" in your translation doesn't work with the passive in "be burdened with". You need to phrase it actively like "carry" (or whatever meaning of 背負う fits the context).

>>17486040
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%9B%B4%E5%96%A9

ぐちゃぐちゃだね
いったいどうしたんだ

>>17486197
彼は会ったような人です.

He seems like a person I've met.

>>17486450
会ったことあるようなないような••

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>>17486450
ゆめのなかで

あったことがある

ような

>>17483887
The beautiful Japanese language of the Nara period was turned into what we have now wholly by real genuine Japanese people that had not studied grammar. I pray that the Japanese language does not degenerate further.

>>17486252
Thanks for the suggestion.

>>17486273
It sounds like you're making up your own grammar rules. Awkward translation or not, I was asking for confirmation on my understanding of Japanese, not my native language.

>>17486555
i mean youre literally making up your own mangled nihongo shit like what the fuck 背負えなくはないもの lmao just fuckin get outta town man

>>17486579
This is a sentence taken from a comic book anon.

>>17486148
not really something burdenless

>>17486600
I think you flipped it. That's why I asked.

>>17486600
>>17486609
or
something that doesn't not burden
it's a logical double negative you can move it wherever it makes sense and means the same thing

>>17486623
All right, I see thanks. Somehow I had had the same thought that the two negatives cancel and 別に isn't a real negative, but I mixed it up anyway. That's why I confused just now.

Does anyone actually do the excersise in Tae Kim's Guide or am I right in thinking they're just a huge waste of time?

>>17486555
>It sounds like you're making up your own grammar rules

No I'm not. The meaning of your translation is wrong and doesn't correspond to the Japanese.

>>17486765
I see that now. I thought your post was just being pedantic about English grammar. Thanks for the intent to help anyway.

>だから、謝ったじゃない。誤解させるようなこと許して、悪かったって
>Didn't you apologize for that? Asking for forgiveness, saying "my bad".
Is this right?

>>17486927
>Didn't you apologize for that? Asking for forgiveness for the misunderstanding, saying "my bad".
Forgot the most important word there.
Forgot a

>>17486600
>>17486765

Xが負える means X is bearable or tolerable. Or more literally X can be carried. Not X is a burden.

>>17486927
Ask for advice in this thread at your own risk.

>What kind of apology was that? Saying something like, "I'm sorry for allowing something to happen that might cause a misunderstanding"...

More literally the first sentence is like
>I'm telling you, "I apologized" is not true.

>>17486997
Reading it again in context. Both interpretations seem to be wrong.

「…なに、してんのよ？」
... What are you doing?

「悪い、魔が差した」
Sorry, got carried away

「友達はそういうことしないの」
Friends don't do that.

「別に…それ以上になったって…俺はいいんだけど」
I wouldn't mind... if it went beyond that though.

「………」

いかん…
No good.

俺、思ったより酔ってる。
I'm more hammered than I thought.

求めちゃいけないものを、求めてる。
I'm admitting things I shouldn't be admitting.

「半年前までは…しても良かったじゃん。こんくらいは」
You were fine with this just half a year ago...

なに、蒸し返してるんだ、みっともない。
What? I'm bringing it up again. How shameless of me.

「だから、謝ったじゃない。誤解させるようなこと許して、悪かったって」
I apologized for that, didn't I? I'm sorry for allowing something that might cause a misunderstanding.

そっちを謝って欲しいわけじゃない。
That doesn't mean I want you to apologize for that.

>>17487055
>「だから、謝ったじゃない。誤解させるようなこと許して、悪かったって」
And I apologized for that, didn't I? Asking you to forgive the thing that might cause a misunderstanding, saying that I was wrong.
Or maybe "Allowing something that might cause..."
I don't understand 許して without hearing intonation

そっちを謝って欲しいわけじゃない。
It's not that I want you to apologize for that part of it.

>>17487055
It looks good except that that って means she's quoting her old apology not giving a new one.

>>17486997
>>17487103
>>17487143
Thanks guys.

でもともだちは買えないよ

ともだちになるよ。価格次第

へんなの

あなたアメリカじん？

How long did you all spend studying Tae Kim? I'm done after a week and a half of studying about an hour and a half a day but don't feel I really learned anything at all. I assume I just didn't give it enough time...

>>17487268
えー、どうやってわかるの？

>>17487271

You're not supposed to 'study' tae kim. Just read through it a couple of times and then refer back to it while you are reading real japanese.

>>17487271
What do you mean, you don't feel like you learned anything?

so I'm reading a VN and a character doesn't like the main character but decides to go along with her because she isn't letting go of him
he says
一蓮托生というが、正直僕にとっては合意もない上での心中と同じだ。
what does he mean? i'm tripped up by the 上での

>>17487348
たまねぎ３こと

にんじん１ぽん

じゃがいも２こ

カレーだよ

>>17487324
Like I can't parse sentences at all. I know lots of Kanji thanks to Anki but knowing the words doesn't matter when I cannot understand them in the context of a sentence which, due to having difficulties learning grammar, I am unable to properly understand sentence structure, particles, and the various mechanics of it.

>>17487383
Just start reading. Everything will start to click. Once you get through your first manga, LN or VN, you'll feel like you got the hang of it.

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>>17487404
I saw this was recommended in the guide. I've attempted Yotsuba but haven't even been able to move on from page one so could this have any value to teach me some more fundamentals?

>>17487348
合意もない上での心中 means something like a murder suicide.

>>17487411

Really, what is keeping you from moving on from page one? There is no rule that you have to understand everything before you move on. When you really have no idea what is going on try and search online. What I did was have a physical copy of yotsubato in my hand, try and read a page and guess what was being said, then compare to a scanlated version online. If what I had didn't match I'd search online or ask /djt/. In the beginning it was hard because I wasn't entirely sure where certain grammar constructs began or ended so I sort of had to go through all the permutations but after slogging through the chapter I had gotten to the point where I could tell.

Don't try and smash your head into a brick wall though. I skipped most of the stuff when fuuka and yostuba's dad meet because it made my head hurt at the time. Even a lot the sentences I didn't skip I didn't end up fully understand the first or second pass through.

https://japanese.stackexchange.com/ is a good resource because there are several questions about yostubato.

>>17487464
I guess I'm just worried that moving on without actually understanding it will lead me to have a false sense of knowledge and, when my goal is to eventually read content that's never been translated, I won't have a online "cheat sheet" to refer to.

>>17487486
You're afraid of failing before you've even started to fail.
But thats still failing. Guess how you learn?

>>17487411

Just read that textbook if you want to. If I remember it wasn't very dense and you'll get through it quickly. It's just a diluted version of better grammar books with pictures to keep people interested. But if you are interested there's no harm in just reading it rather than debating it.

>>17487411
From what I've seen of it it seems like a hand holding version of how I learned with a dictionary and grammar resource and manga by myself.
It just puts the applicable grammar rules into the manga for you.
Might help impatient people who want to start reading. Going into it already knowing basics should help.

Watching anime a lot also really helps with learning through manga because it's exactly the same kind of dialogue and you can learn to hear how sentences should flow and be intoned.

>>17487497
The fuck are you talking about? It may have fewer topics but jtmw is not diluted in any way; moreover there are no "pictures to keep you interested", those are pages from real manga which the book analyses line by line. It even covers a few topics which aren't in Tae Kim but which will be invaluable when reading native content.

>>17487518
Where was the interesting part? I read it several years ago when I just started and I don't remember anything particularly insightful at the time. But I still have a pdf copy.

>>17487527
Perhaps nothing mind blowing, but there was some very useful stuff about how dictionary form can be used for commands, and how to identify rhetorical questions. Those areas can easily confuse people when they start reading.

今から三日後は初めて日本に行きます。
飛行機でなにを読みますか？

I don't know how good the Japanese on Duolingo is as a whole, but my basic comprehension is improving at a much more rapid pace than before.

Are flash cards for language acquisition a meme?

>>17487654
read the guide and find out

>>17487646
世界の終りとハードボイルド・ワンダーランド

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おはぎ！

>>17487646
くうき

Started working my way through Genki, I like it better than Tae Kim so far, feels more structured. Reminds me of the textbooks for English we used back in school.

Should I do all the exercises and listen to all the content on the CD, or should I just quickly work through it with an emphasis on grasping grammar?

Does anyone here input Hiragana and Katakana with anything other than Windows IME? It won't work on my PC, but looking into any alternatives gives me reviews like 'STOP THIS HAS A VIRUS'. The guide doesn't say anything about it either.

>>17487835
No, I use IME for everything. Get fucked, Linuxfag.

>>17487835
Doesn't the guide recommend Google IME? That's what I use, anyway.

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What does this say?
It's japanese not chinese but really messy.
比想像的誰分小者?

>>17487854
にほんごではないよ

たぶんたいわんー

きょうのＡＮＫＩ

>ガムテ
>packaging tape

>>17487835
Google IME
https://www.google.co.jp/intl/ja/ime/

In case you use Linux, mozc is virtually the same.

>>17487938
This is great, thank you.

>>17487814
You can use it however you want to. If you like what you're doing, you might as well do as much as you can, but if the exercises are boring, just skip them.

>>17487986
Thanks. Yeah, that's the approach I was taking. Some exercises are just tedious, so I just do the first 2 sentences/phrases or so to make sure I got the concept.

By the way, I wanted to use the second edition of Genki (because newer is better RIGHT GUYS?), but quickly realized how annoying and distracting the romaji are. I understand why someanon edited them out of the first edition, so I decided to do the same for the second. Only halfway through did I realize that it would have been only a couple more pages that had them, but oh well, maybe some other anons may benefit from this. Feel free to add it to the guide resources, if you will:

Genki I [Second Edition] [no romaji edit]
file-dropper-.-com-/genkiisecondeditionnoromajiedit
Remove the 4 "-" to get the link to work, 4chan is doing its thing.
(Mind you that this host is not permanent, so grab it while you can and host it on your FTP if you have one).

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>>17482577
「余計なこと」とは「いらん(ぬ)こと」です
Mind your own business/It's none of your business.
>>17482836
>>17483630
怖いわ

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>>17483974
それは「為む」=「サ変動詞「す」の未然形＋推量・意志の助動詞「む」
この音便の「せん」で、現代語の「しよう」に該当する文語

「しない」は本来「せず」で打消の助動詞「ず」の連体形が「ぬ」、これが現代語の否定の助動詞「ん」の語源
偶然、同じ撥音に音便変化しただけで別の語です
「ない」は本来形容詞で、これが補助形容詞・助動詞として存在詞的に用いられるのは室町以降です

>>17484336
それは
yes, sir
同様の語法

>>17484436
なにのってきてんのよ！
Why do you ride on me?
何入ってきてんのよ！
Why do you insert your Dick?

lewd

I'm >>17483974

>>17488291
Thank you very much for the explanation.

Since I returned to lurking Djt (I started three years ago when djt was on /a/) just a few days ago, I got really curious about these linguistically detailed replies. Are you a post-grad teacher or something? A really grammar infatuated otaku? Are you Japanese? Would you mind telling me from which resources have you learned so much about Japanese grammar mechanisms?

>>17484704
お前、意図的に間違えて書いているだろ。
一応、添削しといてやるぜ。
『私の日本人友達は、しばしば「あなたの日本語の文法は悪い」と言う。
どうしよう？
日本語の文章を読んでも、文法が難しい。最近、私は、本当にうんざりしている。

私は日本人に生まれたかった。』

ご愁傷様です。

>>17484793
どうしても進行形を使いたいのなら、
「し過ぎている」となる。

この「過ぎる」は動詞化語尾、つまり完全な接尾辞で「連用形＋過ぎる」の形で複合動詞を作るため、そこに助詞が入ることはできない。つまり「し過ぎる」で一つの動詞。この「過ぎる」はaffixでありverbではない。

これは、他の動詞化語尾「上げる」「込む」でも同じで、しかも漢字では「仕上げる」「仕込む」と書き、完全に「する」・「上げる」・「込む」とは異なる一語の動詞となる。

「掻き過ぎる」「書き上げる」「書き下ろす」「書き込む」という感じ。

>>17488183
please ignore my mistake with ながら
it didnt happen and you saw nothing

あのんにしつもんがあります

night and dayと

day and nightは

いみがちがうのですか

Does anyone here use HelloTalk? I'd like to read Japanese statuses and help people with their English, but I don't think my Japanese is good enough to have private conversations. Google isn't telling me whether you can disable DMs/conversations though. Does anyone know if this is possible?

>>17488432
特にない
前者はもっと自然だけど
お風呂に入りなさい

>>17488511
きょうは三回はいったよ

ご飯は二回だったから

お風呂の回数のほうがおおいよ

Remember fellas, don't force output! Train a native ear and reading ability first, then talk/type/whatever only when it feels natural. Our boy Steve Kaufmann learns for 8 months before speaking a single word in the language he's studying. And he's someone who is trying to learn a shitload of languages and not just trying to seek perfection in one like you might be doing.

>>17488579
I feel like this is true, I never really remembered the verb conjugations from a grammar guide, but if I type one out and it sounds wrong you can't really let it go like that, without knowing why in detail

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Why is the answer in the 6k deck not centered?
This is hurting my autism.

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How is it said

すみませんと言うよりもサーセンがいいわね

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>>17488807

>>17488796
ご、ろっぴきだ

>>17488918
Go, ro tsu pi ki da

Different anon here, into day number 4 and have learnt all the hiragana from DJT Kana. It's weird learning without a teacher, self taught feels so aimless, I kind of took the autistic approach of 'I know nothing wtf do I learn', and instead of baic phrases and such just grinded the hiragana. Do i just grind the Katakanna from DJT Kanna next or is there something else I should be doing too? Also some of those other fonts in DJT Kanna are fucking nutty, do you need to know all of them?

>>17488937
Do you need to know all sounds lazy, a better question which i meant is it really useful to know all?

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Japanese "humor"

>>17488991
there's a reason puns are called 駄洒落 with the same kanji as in 駄目

>>17488937
At the beginning you can just study kana alone. You won't get very far without them in other methods like vocab or grammar guides anyway.
And it shouldn't take that long to learn them.

By the way, the つ in his post is actually っ, it's smaller and it means a small pause like a glottal stop or double consonant, not tsu.

>>17489013
Thank you for the correction! I haven't seen that smaller tsu symbol yet in my learning so good to know!

I guess I'll learn the Katakanna next in that case! I'm not a regular on this general, if I come back after I have the Katakanna down and ask people what i should learn next how would that go down? It's kind of hard to know if you're learning 'right' if that makes sense

>>17489124
You would sooner or later get told to "read the guide". (You could do that right know.)

>>17489124
My personal tip for you would be to start reading as soon as you can. It might be really confusing at first, but you can always find material that's easy enough.

Whatever you do, don't turn into another pleb that whines "waah waah ;((( reading is too hard!! I don wan 2 do it".
Good luck!

>>17489145
Aye the guide says katakanna is next then start anki deck which im guessing is a flash card program, so if the guide knows all I'll just follow it i guess!

>>17489167
Thanks anon!

>>17488918
> ご、ろっぴきだ
> Go, ro tsu pi ki da

You need to actually learn your hiragana, anon.

>>17488733
My random guess would be that there are some spaces before the 'one (thing)' field. I'm only guessing though.

How dumb would it be to marathon Tae Kim, write my own notes in Word and just keep them open while I'm reading? I learn through constant repetition (I do 'Review forgotten words' twice per day on top of my regular lesson) and putting things into context. Not a lot of grammar is sticking with me right now and I think I might learn it better through constant exposure and putting things into context.

>>17487422
I guess that helps

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Is there any way to tell kanji homonyms apart, without the rest of the sentence giving context?
I've started my 2k deck, and have had trouble differentiating "yen" and "circle." I looked up the kanji for both before realizing why.
Is it as big of a deal as I'm making it out to be?

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これから jcatへ挑みます
wish me luck

>>17489424
This question can probably be ignored after finding http://www.guidetojapanese.org/grammar_guide.pdf. This is handy to search through while reading.

>>17489453
Sorry, I think you just have to roll with the context. I tried to think of an English equivalent and the first thing that came to mind was 'hot'. You need the rest of the sentence to know whether you're talking about something being a hot temperature or attractive. Yeah it's a shit example, but context does seem important unless someone can correct me.

Thanks, I figured that might be the answer, and that's okay. Just something I have to keep in mind.

>>17489466
I predict you will score 217.

What do you guys think about this method called VOMAD? I think it could be pretty nice for reading gainz if you can keep up with it.

I've been thinking about doing an adapted version of it, reading a volume of manga per week (coupled with VNs and other assorted readings).

>>17489497
So basically "reading"

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>>17489453
If it's the same kanji and no further context, there really isn't a way to tell them apart.
>Is it as big of a deal as I'm making it out to be?
Nah, not really. It isn't all that common and with Anki if it bothers you, you can add another field and put a hint in. I'll find an example of this approach from my own vocab deck.
Found it, like pic related. It's really not a big deal, though.

>>17489466
がんばッ！

>>17489497
A little earlier I was aiming for a volume of manga a day but, yeah, spending a few hours reading daily is a sure fire 'method' to success with any language.

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Is this せさは? It doesn't seem to be translating into anything.

>>17489540
せいし
精子 if it's porn

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>>17489547
Thanks friendo.
I'm translating something for my friend's goldfish, I swear.

>>17489547
せーし, elongated vowel

dont mislead the poor eop

>>17489592
So せいし you gaylord
I'm sure anon can infer the rest by himself

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>>17489466
聽力部分完了だわ
次ぎ ボキャブラへ

how do you pronounce あっand えっ?

>>17489659
Etsu and atsu, the small tsu is just so they can specify the the tsu sound is shorter

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>>17489659
A! and E!

>>17489667 sound like you're making ship up
I'm gonna go with >>17489670

>>17489678
No, he's the one making shit up. Why would they use あっ to write A! when they could just use あ!

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>>17489687
hmmm
you've got a point
now I'm truly confused

>>17489687
The っ just means the sound stops abruptly. Both equating it to an exclamation mark, and saying it's pronounced tsu but shorter, is incorrect

>>17489659
boku no guguru~ "glottal stop"

>>17489700
Wow, do you really expect me to believe that? Get out, N2-kun.

>>17489707
n2 level would be better than 95% of the people in this thread t b h desu

>>17489707
Do you even know what "glottal stop" means?

>>17489725
I think it's pretty obvious from the name

>>17489440
I can't type Japanese but here's how it goes:

goino uede shinjusuru = to commit shinju upon goi

goino uedeno shinjuda: you must insert "no".

>>17489334
actually, I think it's the "repeat audio" button

>>17489760
Where did you see shinju? I only see shinjuu here.

It is I
The clipboard inserter works again
Given my retardation I'll assume it was thanks to the dev and not me, so thanks anon

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Done
How is 273?

What the fuck is up with こと it's like 3 times in a single sentence and way too abstract for me to understand.

日本に行ったことがある I do understand, it's something like the experience of going to Japan. But I constantly see it with 思う or other stuff.
Or even 思い出す has a こと before it, right? What's the deal with all of this?

>>17489516
that's one sexy-looking flashcard

>>17481909
next netlify update when

>>17489815
Totally epic!

>>17489801
Double vowels are for fags.

>>17489831
Misuse of romanisation is for fags and EOPs.

>>17489815
Congrats, you seem pretty good at taking tests. Unfortunately it doesn't say much about how good you are at real Japanese

>>17489835
Actually, the Japanese misuse romanization the most, primarily by not indicating long vowels in any way along with unexpected spacing and non-Hepburn spelling.

>>17489659
っ = glottal stop

You say it just like a regular あ or え sound, but you end it abruptly (via a glottal stop). Usually indicates surprise like "あっ！落ちた！" ("Ah! It fell!"). Watch some anime and you'll hear a character do it before long.

>>17489815
You're close to having crossed intermediate hell, well done

>>17489836
Jcat is pretty good at what it does

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>>17489815
What the fuck.

>>17489849
>not indicating long vowels
So you hate double vowels so much that you've started to ignore them completely.
>unexpected spacing
No, you're the one who doesn't know how to space, seeing the abomination you posted. You're not even gonna need to make phrases using romaji unless you're a phoneposter EOP faggot (you).
>non-Hepburn
Ironic because in the first place hepburn is a romanisation system made for non-japanese speakers. Secondly, you didn't even use it correctly. So overall, you don't know how romanising works but feel the need to give your worthless opinion on it. What a big boy.

>>17489877
so 270s is the new middle income trap now?

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>>17489815
>>17489877
I win

>>17489687
>>17489697
At least learn kana before learning Japanese. Ever heard of a glottal stop?

>>17489925
How do I get good at grammar?

>>17489816
Can you show a few examples?

>>17489883
Faggots like you are fucking insufferable.

>>17489966
Nice argument, retard. Go back to /v/.

>>17489883
(You)

http://tiku.hujiang.com/n1/
here is a popular language learning site from chink side of internet

tens of JLPT simulation tests from numerous chink uni are up for challenge

>>17489943
DoJG, chuuni vns

>>17490012
Don't click this link guys, turns out the site has adware and trojan viruses.

>>17488348
わたしは・・ゲイ

>>17489801
>>17489831
>>17489835
>>17489849
>>17489883
>romanizing
自殺しろ
Also, the only non-harmful way to romanize is to combine the same vowel for every column and the same consonant for every row, thus し is "si", ぢ is "di", ふ is "hu" etc. Double vowels are the must. This way no information is lost and you can reconstruct the original kana spelling.

>>17490172
>and you can reconstruct the original kana spelling
Except you can't because things like てぃ exist, you fucking idiot, and no, romanizing てぃ as "thi" or "teli" is never valid ever.

>>17490172
thats not the point of romanization bro

>>17490234
てぃ is only used with loanwords, you absolute mongoloid.

>>17490244
Loanwords are Japanese, you fake otaku.

>>17490249
Loanwords are romanised the way they are spelt in their original language, you pseudointellectual.

>>17490264
Except they're not because they're Japanese, not their "original language", you shitstain.

just fuck already you fat faggots

>>17490264
This might surprise you but not all loanwords come from languages written in the latin alphabet.

>>17490277
Name 1 (one) loanword which doesn't come from a language written with the latin alphabet that contains てぃ in it.

>>17490244
ハイティーン is not a loanword, your argument is invalid.

>>17490303
I'm sure this sounded much funnier in your imagination.

I've started reading 2 days ago (dedicating about 1-2 hours for each read) and i'm on page 10 (more like page 6 in terms of text) and it's been an awkward experience at best.
I try translating the phrases in my head and in the end i end up taking like 30 minutes just to verify what i read was correct (sometimes even checking the EOP translations, which i dropped after i realized what i was doing was basically the subbed anime meme) and it just mind boggles me.
When i read and think of a translation in my head, i sort of understand the meaning that the characters are trying to convey but i can't make the phrase "whole".
When does it start to snowball and you can actually read stuff without getting confused by grammar/expressions?
Any tips/good habits?

>>17490336
what are you reading?

>>17490336
Honestly translating is harder than just understanding. Think about it in Japanese and don't try to phrase it in English.

>>17490353
you cant think in japanese on day 2 of reading therein lies the problem brainiac

>>17490336
Just keep on reading. Having to translate the words in your head when you're a beginner is normal. Don't spend too much time on it though, just move on when you have a general idea of what the character is saying. Eventually you'll reach a point where you'll be able to recognise a word's meaning without even translating it to English.

>>17490356
You can understand grammar in English without explicitly explaining it in English in your head, can't you? Do the same in Japanese. FEEL the Japanese. TOUCH the Japanese. BE the Japanese.

>>17490352
Qualia the Purple

>>17490371
im literally making wanking motions at my computer while i type this one handed
>>17490376
same

おはようおにいちゃん

なんかはちがつ

ずっとあめー

おてんとうさまかえして

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Haha is ヒナちゃん able to tell the kanji he used? Also is this one of those times when the furigana is different from the word? Because 義兄 seems to be ぎけい normally.
Or maybe the ruby is wrong?

does 釣り、釣る have a double meaning?
watching some akb members talk about fan's impressions of them and one member mentions how fans always think she is 釣っている, even though she thinks she's not
does that just mean flirting?

>>17490437
The feeling when you're reading the same manga as another anon but he appers to have better understanding of it...

>>17490437
>>17490474

zettai reiiki is Good and if you finish the whole thing you're a dekiru

>>17490437
Because if he calls her brother おにいさん it's obvious that he's implying that he's going to marry her, not that he's going to get adopted by her (probably also dead?) parents.

>>17489815
Trim your nails, dude.

is there a blog or twitter account that compiles bad translations by comparing it to the source material?

how do you come up with mnemonics when the sign has no logic behind it like 火 looks like a campfire but some have nothing to do with what they mean

>>17490739
i dont think anyone is so autistic as to make a bunch of trytweets about badly translated japanese shit
however ill give you a good place to start one: the tlwiki version of syarin no kuni

>>17490766
I don't use mnemonics.

>>17490237
That's why I told you people to kill yourselves for romanizing.
>>17490234
texi, just like in an IME.

>ITHVNR + Clipboard + Rikaisama

Is this still the best setup? I hate having to constantly scroll down once the page is full

>>17490437
>Or maybe the ruby is wrong?
Yeah, totally.
>Also is this one of those times when the furigana is different from the word?
Is this the first time you encountered it? Read more.

File: Capture.png (306KB, 617x415px) Image search: [Google]

306KB, 617x415px

>>17481909
Can somebody help me understand the way this ossan talks?
What's with that うっと　and what about those よる after verbs? Is it the way old men usually say ておる or something?
Or is this some kind of dialect?

>>17490449
someone pls answer

man i cant stand otaku posers
yall niggas talk about weighing over 150 kilos and livin in your moms basement jerking off on figures all day but i live it every day in these neet streets

>>17490766
mnemonics don't have to be logical, they just have to make sense to you.

人 keeps his 貝 and his 刀 at his 側, so I'll picture a guy with a sword and a bag of money hanging from each side of his belt.

>>17489453
It'll usually be clear. I don't think anyone's gonna ask to borrow 1000 circles.

whats the difference between 状況 and 状態?

>>17490893
one of them means situation (of things), the other means condition (around a particular thing), I do not remember which is which because I don't know Japanese.

i know its in japanese so most of you wont understand it but heres some real neet nigga shit straight from the hood https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiTJOCYCDsM

>>17490893
one of them is also like 事情 but the other is not

>>17490791
pls respond

>>17490901
shiqing

>tfw studying Chinese now

>>17490900
>>17490901
what's a sentence you would use one, and not the other? and vice versa

What's with all the redditors lately?

>>17490910
你还好吗nigga