Forbidden Scrollery chapter 49

IT'S HAPPENING

I think Kosuzu is about to make some poor life decisions.

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>>16763748

>>16763748
It's happening next chapter, more like.

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What's Yukari's endgame? Is she just trying to test Reimu here or something?

Either way I think it'd be very weird for this to go somewhere without Kosuzu and Reimu getting to have a legitimate conversation about the state of things.

I'm a bit stunned. Not sure what's gonna happen.

Make your bets

Kosuzu gets eaten/killed as a human
Kosuzu becomes a yokai and Reimu kills her
Kosuzu becomes a yokai and Reimu does not kill her because insert asspull here

>>16763848
Yukari's always been on the side of youkai, and I figured she just decided that Kosuzu was too. Yukari is in fact pretty much the only person who thinks there's a "team youkai" to root for.

Kosuzu is about to get fortunetellered?

>>16763858
Kosuzu becomes a book seller of youkai books to youkai exclusively and is collectively protected by youkai and considered to be like Marisa by humans.

>>16763867
Yukari is on the side of the youkai as far as preserving Gensokyo's existence for them, but she's mostly on the side of balance and preserving Gensokyo's status. She had no problem culling the youkai with her moon invasion when they got too populous.

Recently though she seems to be causing ripples for unknown reasons, like with the Doomsday crisis.

Did Akyuu not have another plan in place here? She (apparently) got played like a fool by Mamizou and just willingly gave Kosuzu only half-truths knowing she's curious and impulsive. She pretty much set her up as perfect bait for Yukari to whisper things into her ear.

I can't believe that she didn't have any kind of ulterior motive for doing what she did, but maybe she is ultimately powerless and accepts it.

>>16763912
Akyuu's no schemer, just a concerned friend. "Immortal". but still just a human.

>>16763858
Kosuzu remains human, but moves out of the village. That way she isn't obligated to side with it, and can't be used as a pawn against it.

>>16763858
She goes and talks to Reimu, and tensions run high, but ultimately her concerns are assuaged and she is let go, maybe to live outside the village. People who think she's going to get killed are silly in my opinion. It wouldn't be fitting for Touhou.

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In any case this might be the last we see of her innocent expression. Goodbye innocent young bookstore-keeping Kosuzu!

A little girl should not have to face such troubles. Stupid hags

>>16763920
Akyuu did try to fool Mamizou and secure a stronger position for the humans, though, and its clear she tries to reveal information and influence opinion through her written works (which no one reads because they think she and Keine are boring).

It just doesn't seem right that she basically has left Kosuzu to fend for herself.

mamizou, sick of akyuu and yukari moving in on her suzu cunny, makes her move

Mamizou really overplayed her hand. All that intimidation did was push Kosuzu towards Aya and Yukari.

>>16764026
I wonder how Kuzoos remained calm after such serious intimidation by a powerful youkai. I would literally be unable to stop shaking if that happened to me.

>>16764026
Aya threatened her too, just more subtly.

Everything pretty much played right into Yukari's hands. Akyuu and Marisa, the humans, were deliberately obtuse and couldn't help Kosuzu's concerns. Mamizou and Aya threatened her but Aya gave her an out by saying youkai treat humans differently and as individuals, not necessarily enemies.

So naturally the first person to reach out a friendly and supportive hand was going to be the one to listen to her. Turns out it was Yukari, right after she scared Kosuzu by saying Reimu would kill her.

This nonsense is how you end up with Rinnosukes. First youre ok with youkai, then you're ok with fucking one, then you're ok with having a child with one. It's very unnatural.

What would Yukari gain from trying to make her scared of Reimu?

>>16764145
Yukari wants an agent against Reimu in the human village, and feels like it would be best to half-lie to her. The only times Reimu kills people is A: if they would actually endanger Gensokyo in a way more than just simply and there are literally no other options, and B: if a person in the human village has become a Youkai without moving out of the village and staying out for a while first.

>>16764168
>Yukari wants an agent against Reimu in the human village
What for?

>>16764171
Nth dimensional demon chess.

>>16763858
FS seems like a story that's mostly been about red herrings and playing with your expectations, especially lately. Like how they set it up so that everyone thought Akyuu was playing Mamizou but in reality she was trying to use Akyuu to get to Kosuzu.

I think it would be way more of a shock if something bad actually happened to Kosuzu. It will probably look bad for a while but then be ok.

>>16764168
Why would she want that? Reimu is on "her side" and she does a lot to ensure Reimu moves and acts in a way that she wants. Yukari should be more concerned with Kasen trying to influence Reimu but it seems like everything's going the way she wants on that front anyway, and is confident Kasen will return to "her side".

>>16764183
Just in case probably. Reimu would be a liability if she attacks Yukari because she's heard reports of Yukari messing up the balance.

I think this is just Yukari being opportunistic rather than running some kind of complicated scheme. She noticed that Kosuzu was about to fall under some youkai's influence, and decided that youkai might as well be her.

>>16763738
So it's treachery?
Burn the witch!

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This is the face of a heretic. Fetch me Inquisitor Reimu.

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>>16763848
Everything Yukari does, is for the sake of Gensokyo and the preservation of its Youkai.
As long as you understand this, her motives will all be clear.



...Probably.

>>16764344
that picture: stage four just got longer!

This chapter: wow, the cats are amongst the pigeons now and many foxes have descended upon the vicinity of the hen house.

I would be pretty surprised if Kosuzu actually became a youkai and Reimu had to emotionally deal with it.

It seems more likely that Marisa + Reimu are going find out what's going on and talk Kosuzu out of it at the last second

How could Kosuzu go about becoming a youkai? Eat a youma scroll?

Looks like Mamizou is officially out of the Suzubowl

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>>16763941
Why didn't you protect her smile?

Ayaya, the one time you met Little Suzy outside the village, you treated her injuries and brought her home. Don't act like a creep, you're nice and you know it.

What happened to the previous chapters? Does Batoto not like this manga anymore?

>>16764582
Batoto has a rather odd practice in which chapters added after a certain amount of time require a login to view. It's dumb.

>>16763738
Someone better kick this tankuki hag ass because she as hell deserves it.

So is Kosuzu going to get a free pass if she helps/becomes a yokai just because she's a cute little girl?
I would honestly love to see the crimson slasher slay her.

>>16764642
Please don't bully my waifu.

>>16764731
Your waifu is shit and the reason why Kosuzu is never going to smile again

>>16764726
I doubt it will go that badly that the titular girl dies

Is this manga supposed to be erotic? Because those scenes with Kosuzu being powerlessly pitted against a bunch of domineering, aggressive older women made my peepee feel funny

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Yukari's telling what's what.

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>>16764758
You are not the only one.

rip kosuzu

>>16763893
At a guess, maybe Yukari thinks that with the way things are, gensokyo might not be able to cope with changes in the future or something? So she's trying to make it more resilient to anythings like that

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>>16764642
>>16764738
This.
I hate Mamizou even more now.

>Yukari "protects" Kosuzu by giving her a secluded place where she can read and learn more about youkais
>Even with more super rare books from the gap's collection.
> Kosuzu were infected with so much energy she transformed into youkai.
>Suddenly, Yukari says she needs to be somewhere
>Brings out the fresh and inexperienced Kosuzuyokai back to the edge of the village
>Order her to stay put.
>Of course, according to keikaku, she rebelled.
>Confused, naive, and overtaken by her new instinct, Kosuzu cause a minor rampage in the Human Village.
>Akyuu came to her side, tying to put some sense in her friend
>Biten and taken down as Kosuzu looks very imminent to eat her.
>Reimu cames and managed to brings back Kosuzu sanity after battle.
>Kosuzu then sees the chaos and fright she, a youkai, had cause to the humans in such a short time.
>Hangs her head in shame and defeat as Reimu exterminate her
>In the background, Yukari, Mamizou, and some other youkai be looking smug.

>Forbidden Scrollery are revealed to be the name of the cautionary tale Akyuu pen down in her latest chronicle, teaching about the danger of youkai manipulation.
>Humans, seeing a display of littlle, innocent-looking Kosuzu turned into a monster becames more scared
>Suzunaan is burned, not before Mamizou grab away all the good stuffs
>Life returns to normal, but with the villager even more preudiced and more easily controlled.

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>>16764914

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>>16763738
Goddammit Yukari, got back to your hybernation and stop messing with a poor kid.

Also Moe should seriously start practicing drawing hands.

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>>16764914
This will never happen but it would be pretty cool if it did

>>16764930
>She kills youkai
Except cute girls you mean, which are all around her shrine.

>>16764977
Damn it, fortune-teller. Are you still hung up about that? Face it, you choosing to do evil talk to Reimu cost you.

>>16764977
She only kills Youkai that break the rules (like actually eating or killing humans from the human village) or humans from the village who become Youkai and have a chance of upsetting the balance, though. Like, the main reason she killed the fortune teller was because even though he said he was going to be perfectly fine with being left alone, there was always a possibility that he wouldn't and that he would return to the human village, as such making every human in the human village realise that humans can become Youkai.

Besides, dying in Touhou is not that bad, since unless you're unrepetantly evil (which the fortune teller emphatically was not), your soul will just move on and be reincarnated anyway, regardless of what your body does (even if you go to Hell, actually), since in Touhou the soul is the consciousness and the bodies are literal meat puppets controlled by souls.

Honestly, this part of the Touhou universe isn't looked into very often, and for good reason; it'd become fairly confusing. But I believe all creatures in Touhou have souls, including Youkai, so unless your soul was completely obliterated in some manner, which only characters like Yukari could do if she's powerful enough to manipulate the boundaries between existence and non-existence, and the Fortune-Teller's death just means that he's going to be reincarnated in some manner.

>>16765127
>>16765172
Okuu was breaking the rules enough by trying to cover Gensokyou in flames.
Anyway, people who think that Kosuzu might die shouldn't have their hopes up because girl characters don't die in 2hu.

>>16765216
Okuu never actually killed anyone though.

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What are the odds of Kosuzu going mad from all the abuse and decides to become a youkai exterminator herself? She can even start dissecting the youkai she exterminates and write informative encyclopedias on youkai anatomy.

>>16765253
Can Kosuzu kill servants?

>>16765226
Neither did the Fortune teller.

>>16763765
>trusting the gap jew
kosuzu no!

>>16765353
Killing yourself still counts as a kill.

>>16764145
Trying to?

If Kosuzu WASN'T scared and kept going down the path she's going, she'd just get killed without any warning.

Well, "without any warning"; she's been warned the entire series.

>>16764168
Yukari and Reimu are allies.

>>16765216
Okuu isnt a human. Humans isnt dispensable, but they need live according how'd it was intended, as a lifeline of the youkais

>>16764344
She's also big on being mysterious and confounding, so if you didn't expect her to do what she did in this chapter (or in Marisa's LoLK ending) I wouldn't blame you.

>>16765253
Is Sekibanki going to go Tokyo Ghoul on loli komachi's ass?

>>16764554
it sounds like simply being in the presence of these things all the time and even reading them would eventually change her

It kinda already was, since if I remember write she can write some youkai script.

>>16764582
Aya is pretty nice, but she has to ultimately play by Tengu rules and regulations. See: MoF, where she probably could have easily stopped Reimu and Marisa, but let them go through anyway.

>>16765172
Considering how Shiki Eiki judged youkai the same as humans in PoFV, it sounds like they do indeed have something like a soul.

>>16765253
Kosuzu the haruspex!

I want to hug Suzy and tell her everything will be ok

>>16765533
Kosuzu deserves every bit of trouble she's gotten into.

Friggin brat. Well, I guess she's not a kid anymore, but she's not yet an adult either.

>>16765553
Akyuu please

>>16763858
three, but will be a big loss of other thing (aside kosuzu's humanity)

>>16764191
Reimu has attacked Yukari because she thought she was acting fishy before though, she did it in a recent chapter of WaHH. Yukari for her part took the blame and let Reimu beat her in order to make sure Reimu continued doing her job.

>>16763738
this chapter comfirm that reimu is pretty much an inquisitor, a relaxed one

>>16764914
too simple but I can see happening a similar (and more subtle) ending

>>16764977
that shrine is empty the mayority of the time

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>>16765172
>there was always a possibility that he wouldn't and that he would return to the human village, as such making every human in the human village realise that humans can become Youkai.
another more subtle and dangerous posibility is anyone who knew fortuneteller in "life" could recognice as the same but in youkai form and considering that was an academic/it's "alive" again the mere action of being recogniced for any familiar or colleague will raise some eyebrows and ultimately the ones who want a better life/resurrecting the dead will come to suzunaan

>>16763858
I don't think any of those happen, or at least I really hope not. Killing off a titular character of a written work doesn't seem fitting for Touhou at all, no matter how dark the setting is. Even Zounoose never kills the named characters in Touhou, he makes his Grimsokyo points through unnamed youkai and humans. I feel like if Reimu kills her then everyone will just ask "when will she kill Marisa" until the end of time.

A couple of potential outcomes here

-Kosuzu flees and starts turning, but talks to Reimu and Marisa in the final moments. Reimu looks like she's going to execute her, the chapter ends on a cliffhanger, and the next one starts by her just bonking her on the head or something. They'll talk her off the ledge. Reimu not being able to talk to Kosuzu about this at all doesn't seem right.

-The youkai (perhaps Yukari) offer Kosuzu sanctuary outside of the town through some kind of collective protection (like what they do for the village as a whole), and she becomes kind of like a Rinnosuke, except she sells Youma books to youkai and shit like that. She then kind of becomes like Marisa and is treated as an entity outside of the village. Though I don't know how Mamizou and Aya would treat her if she wasn't a critical liason for the village bookstore.

-Kosuzu gives all of her Youma books to Yukari in an effort to save herself from their influence and "curse". Yukari, by sweet-talking Kosuzu and offering a way to "save" her from Reimu and the other youkai, gains access to some pretty good material that the other youkai (particularly Mamizou, another schemer) want.

>>16765216
Okuu was a youkai and simply a retard who thought the Yatagarasu's power made conquest her "destiny", a lot of the blame for that incident was rightly given to Kanako.

> People thinking something is going to happen in a Touhou manga

LUL

There were a number of significant problems with the Fortune Teller beyond just turning into a youkai, which is taboo and already a complete non-starter as far as Gensokyo's rules go.

The first is that he killed himself and put a curse on his book, using dark magic to ensure that negative emotions and feelings would resurrect him as a youkai.

The second was making a big show of resurrecting in the village in front of everyone before fleeing.

The third was thinking Reimu was a youkai and, instead of just running away and living a quiet life like he said he wanted to, he turned around and gave her some retarded supervillain monologue about what he did, how he did it, and expected her to agree that it was acceptable.

Fortune Teller pretty much went about shit as wrong as you could possibly do it.

>>16765820
This, seriously.

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What if kozusu had a gun

>>16765927
If conventional weapons worked on youkai they wouldn't need Reimu

>>16763738
>haha tricked u I was only pretending
Mamizou is really unlikable.

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>>16765990
Maybe if they used guns with a strong legend behind them.

>>16765996
>>16765820
Who are you quoting lads?

>>16763858
I just want an explanation of where the hell did this girl that Reimu apparently was extremely concerned about all this time came from.

>>16763858
The whole manga has been building up to Reimu showing her overprotectiveness of Kosuzu and Kosuzu turning to the youkai side, which as a chapter showed, Reimu responds to with death as per the law.

So I'm going with option C.

>>16764168
>>16764191
Don't try to make sense of Yukari's actions, there's no explanation yet, she'll probably say it in the end, though it wouldn't surprise me if ZUN just straight up forgets.

>>16764914

Solid besides the fact that Reimu would exterminate every single youkai that came in contact with Kosuzu.

>>16764554
Mamizou says she's already cursed just by being surrounded by youma books for so long.

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Do you like me now? I'm such a mastermind, always a step ahead!

>>16765483
>where she probably could have easily stopped Reimu and Marisa
No, she just says she went easy on them because she supported their cause, and even then afterwards she says ''I know I was going easy on you but still GODDAMN, girl, you scary''.

>>16764871
I hope Kosuzu gets to btfo Mamizou's smug ass somehow.

>>16766005
me

>>16766005
This post.

haha tricked u I was only pretending

People thinking something is going to happen in a Touhou manga

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This should end in a fucking game somehow. Don't forget that Touhou is an STG first.

>>16764914
Yukari's on Mamizou's side?

>>16766108
Kosuzu becomes a wanted youkai but she's still powerless.
ISC without items

>>16765172
>or humans from the village who become Youkai and have a chance of upsetting the balance, though
Like Byakuren?

Don't try to explain this, dude, ZUN writes whatever the fuck he pleases. Remember when he wrote that Reimu treats everyone the same? HAHAHAHAHA.

>>16766135
Except Byakuren was not from the village

>>16765833
It's unclear, youhave to ask ZUN.

>>16766148
She was known beforehand to be part of a human village, more importantly, she's a human that turned into a youkai and SURE AS HELL is upsetting the balance, more than anything else in the series.

>>16766165
>of a human village
Key word being "a", not "the"
>she's a human that turned into a youkai
Just like most other magicians
>and SURE AS HELL is upsetting the balance, more than anything else in the series.
It seems that is not a problem as long as she was not part of THE human village

>>16766165
Yeah. Like 1000 years ago.

>>16766178
>Key word being "a", not "the"
The hell does that matter?
>Just like most other magicians
That's another point to add to my cause, except they didn't change the balance like Byakuren does.
>It seems that is not a problem as long as she was not part of THE human village
That doesn't make any sense, where is it stated that that matters, and why would it?

It's just ZUN being inconsistent and enigmatic like always.

>>16766184
She's still known to be a human turned into a youkai that is upsetting the balance more than anyone else ever has.

Also remember back in OSP in the fairy-organized hakurei festival chapter when ZUN suggested the idea that youkai could donate and be followers of the shrine just like humans which would completely solve all of Reimu's issues but then instantly forgot about it and never brought it up again?

>>16766150
No, Fortune Teller doing all the wrong shit and being deserving of his fate is completely clear and obvious, only /jp/sies with no reading comprehension think he did nothing wrong.

>>16763738
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuc2D1zaVRY

Kosuu is bringing all of her Youma books to Reimu for her to cleanse.

>>16766243
I like how you alawys adress Byakuren but completely ignore the other characters.
>that is upsetting the balance more than anyone else ever has
Oh yeah. Fear those buddhist leaflet campaigns. What a horror.

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>>16766233
>>16766135
you're an idiot, please stop talking

>>167662334
>The hell does that matter?
Because so far, the only village whose inhabitants shouldn't be going around turning into Youkai is shown to be the human village currently stationed in Gensokyo
>That doesn't make any sense, where is it stated that that matters, and why would it?
It's stated when Reimu exterminated the fortune teller when she never actually killed any other human turned youkai so far

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>>16766243
>youkai
>followers
I want you to read what you just wrote and think about it real hard.

>>16763858
you're missing the point. Suzy ,being the middle person between human and youkai would establish some sort of middle ground decision and dies in the end :^)

>>16766086
That doesn't really refute what I said

>>16766243

>She's still known to be a human turned into a youkai that is upsetting the balance more than anyone else ever has.

The balance of what? Gensokyo?

How is that relevant back when she was a villager? Gensokyo didn't even exist then.

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Soon~

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>>16766243
>She's still known to be a human turned into a youkai
She's entirely a youkai now, and entirely devoted to youkai. She doesn't need nor care for humans. And, I remind you, Gensokyo is primarily a safe haven for youkai. Not for humans. Those are merely cattle meant to provide the youkai and gods with continued faith, and aren't allowed to rise above or fall down from that function.

Miko, however, who on the other hand is fully human-aligned, did pose a danger, and was very firmly put down by others during the Symposium. Exactly because she expressed an interest in elevating the humans of Gensokyo's village.

>>16766629
Kosuzu getting raped by youkai in the wild!

>>16766359
>I like how you alawys adress Byakuren but completely ignore the other characters.
The hell am I ignoring? I just said the other magicians only add to my point.
>Oh yeah. Fear those buddhist leaflet campaigns. What a horror.
Have you forgotten what we're arguing about? It's humans and youkai coexisting and Byakuren being an example of a human turned into a youkai, which is supposedly the reason the fortune teller was killed.
>>16766413
The ones the buddhist temple has? And why are you ridiculing it when ZUN himself put the idea into the story and then forgot to address it completely?
>>16766621
>The balance of what? Gensokyo?
Yes, the human-youkai balance see above.
>How is that relevant back when she was a villager?
Obviously I'm talking about the present, anon.
>>16766642
>She's entirely a youkai now, and entirely devoted to youkai. She doesn't need nor care for humans.
wrong, she has followers both human and youkai. Also the point here is that she's a human turned into a youkai, which is supposedly why the fortune teller was killed, because his existence could affect the balance and make other humans want to turn into youkai.
>>16766371
Damn I got told.

>>16766292
Do explain then.

>>16766404
>Because so far, the only village whose inhabitants shouldn't be going around turning into Youkai is shown to be the human village currently stationed in Gensokyo
But it doesn't matter where they come from, since what they're trying to prevent is more humans from turning into youkai, Byakuren, who's a public figure with followers, is doing what Reimu feared the fortune teller would do at a MUCH larger scale.
>It's stated when Reimu exterminated the fortune teller when she never actually killed any other human turned youkai so far
Okay?

>>16766656

>Obviously I'm talking about the present, anon.

No shit. So are you saying that Reimu should recursively punish anyone that did things that could have affected the balance of something that didn't even exist when they did those things?

That logic is retarded. Laws don't work like that.

Now that the human belief's power over Gensokyo is as strong as possible, Yukari's goal is probably to use it to break the youkai's dependence on it by publicizing Kosuzu turning of her own free will, even if she isn't actually doing that. Belief creates reality, after all~
Of course, Kasen still wants to scrap Gensokyo as a failed experiment. And the Perfect Possession incident is coming up fast, thanks to Sumireko being a dumbfuck.
AoCF is going to be very interesting, that's for sure!

>>16766589
It does, you claimed she could easily stop Reimu and Marisa.

>>16766656
>wrong, she has followers both human and youkai
Never said she didn't have human followers. But Byakuren doesn't care for those outside of the same purpose humans serve toward all other youkai of Gensokyo, as evidenced by her wilful dismissal of perils involving her human followers in SoPM.

In other words, while Byakuren allows humans to (try to) become her followers, her sole and only goal is the salvation of youkai.

>>16766671
>No shit
Then why are you talking about the past?
>So are you saying that Reimu should recursively punish anyone that did things that could have affected the balance of something that didn't even exist when they did those things?
But ''those things'' are just being a human turned into a youkai, which she's still is. She's causing far more ''damage'' than the fortune teller ever could.
>>16766679
Of course she cares, she's trying to make humans and youkai be friends again. If she didn't then she wouldn't try to get human followers at all. Plus what matters here is the fact that she's a human turned into a youkai, the very thing the fortune teller was murdered for.

>>16766656
>which is supposedly the reason the fortune teller was killed
Count broke the rules and pissed Reimu. Byakuren did neither of those things. Simple

>>16766674
She probably could. Her complaining that they were scary doesn't mean much. Marisa complained CIRNO was scary in GFO. Aya is supposed to be a "much more dangerous than she initially appears" character, and my point in the first place was that "although she's dangerous she's actually rather kind".

If she really didn't want those humans on the mountain I don't see why it wouldn't be a simple matter to stop them.

>>16766701
>GFO
GFW*

>>16766699
>Count broke the rules and pissed Reimu
So just like Byakuren? She broke the rules of being a human turned into a youkai, which is what the count was murdered for, and pissed off Reimu too by being a direct competitor and taking in followers.

>>16766701
>She probably could
How? There's absolutely no evidence of that, meanwhile her dialogue suggests that even if she wasn't going easy on them she'd still lose.

Also, she's been beaten outside of MoF anyways, like in swr.

>>16766707
What rules? There were no rules back then.

>>16766707
The rule is that humans from the human village in Gensokyo can't turn into youkai, not that no human can ever turn into a youkai ever

>>16766707

The rule is not "nobody can become youkai", it is "do not reveal that villagers can of their own will become youkai." Because that makes the sheep think they can become the wolves.

>>16766715
>>16766716
>>16766717
But there's absolutely no reason why simply not being from the current human village is going to somehow make a human-turned-youkai not make the humans of the village get ideas about turning into a youkai themselves.

Also again, where did you get the ''it has to be from the village'' part from?

>>16766692
>she's trying to make humans and youkai be friends again
1) No, she isn't. You clearly didn't bother learning her backstory.

2) Few in the Human Village realise she is a youkai at all - even in Akyuu's book, she is only said to have "surpassed humanity" through training, hand-waving her categorisation as a magician (a category otherwise reserved for those born with magical powers or turned inhuman through magic rituals).

3) Byakuren's temple is open to humans because this is her public cover. You have to remember that keeping the Human Village in the dark is an ongoing concern for all youkai in Gensokyo, including Byakuren. A Buddhist temple openly turning humans away would be mightily suspicious. On the other hand, youkai gonna youkai, so it's likely Byakuren's (earnest but ignorant) human followers are the only ones unwittingly maintaining her cover. Ironic, and probably not a little vexing for the race traitor herself.

4) Most trivially, just like Miko, Byakuren never was and never will be associated directly with the Human Village. She isn't actively interfering with its intended power position (like changing human faith batteries into youkai), she only offers her (false) teachings in isolation from the village itself, and doesn't poke her nose into the village politics.

Hell, the Symposium ends with Reimu saying Byakuren just BEING THERE with other non-human leaders was making the humans nervous.

>>16766722
>Also again, where did you get the ''it has to be from the village'' part from?
Kanako explains this to Miko (who was interested in becoming the humans' leader) in SoPM.

>>16766722
>Also again, where did you get the ''it has to be from the village'' part from?
From the fact that the only human-turned-youkai that was ever exterminated was from the village, whereas Byakuren and Alice are left alone

>>16766722

Reimu literally says that when she exterminates the Fortune Teller.

>>16766707
>She broke the rules of being a human turned into a youkai
Except that is neither the rule, nor the problem. The problem is when a villager inside Gensokyo willingly turns themselves into youkai.

Not a human from some other place outside of Gensokyo, not a human from anywhere from before Gensokyo before it even existed. A human from inside Gensokyo.

Byakuren didn't reduce the human population of Gensokyo when she became a youkai, the fortune teller did.

You are too fixated on the ways they are the same, when that is the most irrelevant part. What matters, and the reason one gets the axe when the other doesn't, lies in the ways they are NOT the same.

Why is that so difficult to understand?

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>>16765990
>Gun Sign "3D Printer Gun"

>>16766736
More like Dork Sign

>>16766707
Byakuren was a human in ancient Japan. The fortune teller was a human villager in Gensokyo. These are very different things.

It is not a secret that humans can become youkai. The methods are obscure, but there are so many legends of humans becoming youkai that any attempt to conceal it would be futile. The reason that villagers do not choose to become youkai is because it's considered a bad thing. It's taboo. If enough people commit a taboo then it stops being taboo. This is the situation Reimu seeks to prevent at any cost, and preventing it is the reason she killed the fortune teller.

Killing Byakuren would be pointless because her existence does not encourage villagers to become youkai.

>>16766711
Because she literally never does anything seriously. I thought this was obvious. She's always just messing around. You're citing SWR? In SWR her walk cycle is her casually taking notes in the middle of battle.

Hell she's the only one to give Yuuka clothing damage in PoFV and I think that counts for a lot.

>>16766736
>conventional weapons

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>>16766740

>>16766724
>1) No, she isn't. You clearly didn't bother learning her backstory.
You serious? She keeps trying to get human followers too and says so in the UFO Reimu B ending iirc to the annoyance of Reimu. Also not sure why you're bringing up her backstory when she had very different ideas at the moment she was unsealed compared to the ones she had after the battle.
>hand-waving her categorisation as a magician (a category otherwise reserved for those born with magical powers or turned inhuman through magic rituals).
Actually the magician categorization is considered youkai.
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Magician
The other ones there are Alice and Patchouli.
>3) Byakuren's temple is open to humans because this is her public cover.
Regardless of what it is, it's open to humans, they know she's a human-turned youkai because even Akyuu wrote about it.
>4) Most trivially, just like Miko, Byakuren never was and never will be associated directly with the Human Village
But the fortune teller was killed before he could even do anything even remotely close to what Byakuren has done in regards to her being open to the humans and those being able to see what she is, and get ideas about it.
>just BEING THERE with other non-human leaders was making the humans nervous.
well yeah, there's always gonna be youkaiphobes despite her human followers.

>>16766769
>Actually the magician categorization is considered youkai.
Yes, and Akyuu makes it a point to say Byakuren is only in that category because she achieved a similar result with pure training (but her magic is still evil, guys, don't try to imitate her).

Yes, really. I'm not making this up. Go read SoPM.

>>16766744
>Because she literally never does anything seriously.
Oh don't do this shit, even ZUN has mocked that idea when talking about Alice who also does the same ''I wasn't at full power'' shit.
>In SWR her walk cycle is her casually taking notes in the middle of battle.
Seriously? That's your argument?

Again, there's no evidence she could beat Marisa let alone Reimu, and more importantly, again, her comments after she's beaten suggests that she'd still lose anyhow.

>>16766742

A lot of these legends end up with the human becoming a youkai through evil deeds or actions, not by deliberately setting out to become a youkai.
The only ones that we actually know of that deliberately chose to become youkai are the magicians and the Fortune Teller, and of them only one was a villager.

>>16766780
Listen man, I just call it as I see it and frankly I don't even care. I don't like Aya much.

Get upset on your own.

>>16766777
>Yes, and Akyuu makes it a point to say Byakuren is only in that category because she achieved a similar result with pure training
All she says is this.
> Although she was originally a human, she has already surpassed humanity due to many years of training. Therefore, she is categorized as a magician.
You can see her saying that a) she isn't human and b) she's part of the magician category, who are youkai according to Akyuu.

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>>16766291

>>16766789
But mine is a canon panel

>>16766769
>youkaiphobes
Are you for fucking real? The majority of youkai is MEANT to be feared and despised. They fucking disappear otherwise. "Youkaiphobia" is absolutely necessary for Gensokyo's survival. Which is also why some mock Byakuren's self-proclaimed methods, as they're essentially spiritual suicide for youkai. Of course, that's supposing Byakuren is honest in her intentions, and isn't just giving youkai a place to engage in their shenanigans near the Human Village without inviting a retaliation.

>>16766728
>>16766732
>>16766733
That's the point here, why? The fortune teller was killed because he could give regular humans ideas, Byakuren's been doing that since she returned, though ZUN somehow skipped that.
>>16766734
>Byakuren didn't reduce the human population of Gensokyo when she became a youkai, the fortune teller did.
Are you serious? Now you're changing the reason he was killed?

Dude, he was killed because he could influence the villagers and give them ideas about turning into a youkai. Byakuren is a known youkai-turned human yet for some reason she's fine.
>>16766742
>Killing Byakuren would be pointless because her existence does not encourage villagers to become youkai.
How do you know that? The fortune teller was killed even though there's nothing to suggest that he would either tell someone about himself or that someone would learn his transformation, he was killed as a PREVENTIVE MEASURE.

So why did Byakuren get a pass even though any human could get ideas by her existence?

>>16766788
>You can see her saying that a) she isn't human and b) she's part of the magician category, who are youkai according to Akyuu.
Read what you yourself linked. Akyu's category of magician includes those born of magicians as well as those who surpassed her humanity by way of magical rituals. Byakuren is only in the same category because, again, she achieved similar results but with "many years of training." This is supposed to communicate that Byakuren is distinct from the other magicians, despite being put in the same category for the sake of the book.

Of course the brutal truth is Byakuren DID turn herself immortal with black magic, but this is something Akyuu doesn't want (or isn't allowed) to tell the humans in the village.

>>16766800
I have no idea why do you think that's a counterargument to anything I said, do you think I said youkai shouldn't be feared or something? I'm just mentioning the regular humans who are youkaiphobes, in contrast to Byakuren's human followers who aren't.

>>16766785
But all you said was a hunch you had based on nothing, especially when the evidence points otherwise, there's absolutely no reason a simple mountain tengu could beat Reimu either.

>>16766822
Based on nothing? Fuck off. I based it on things you just dismissed because for whatever reason it irritates you for me to brings stuff up.

This is why I hate powerlevel fags. You point out shit and they're just all NO NO. I don't actually have any concern about these things, I just take them as facts of the setting and that's that.

>>16766809
>Akyu's category of magician includes those born of magicians as well as those who surpassed her humanity by way of magical rituals.
Both of which are youkai, not sure what you're getting at.
>This is supposed to communicate that Byakuren is distinct from the other magicians
Uh, no? She became a youkai and thus is put in a category reserved only for youkai. There's absolutely nothing that implies she isn't a youkai.
> despite being put in the same category for the sake of the book.
Again, a ''magician'' to Akyuu is considered a youkai. There's buts or ifs mentioned at all.

Also more importantly, why did you miss the part that says that she surpassed humanity, i.e: not longer human?

>>16766822
Calling Aya "a simple mountain tengu" is pretty much wrong though.

>>16766806
>That's the point here, why?
Because humans of Gensokyo aren't supposed to think they can help or improve themselves by themselves. Yes, they can go train with Byakuren, but that's disassociating themselves from the village, and entirely a "merit" of Byakuren offering it. Similarly they can go train with Miko, but not only is this removing themselves even farther from the village, Miko also has very tall standards for apprentices.

The point of all this is the humans of Gensokyo need to remain convinced that they're dependent on the whims of youkai, gods and otherwise classified powerful personage. Once they begin striving for independence (either by rising as humanity, or turning themselves into something else), Gensokyo is doomed.

What Byakuren, Miko and select others offer is an exclusive deal, and entirely dependent on the goodwill of those benevolent persons. What the Fortune Teller did could have been done by anyone, without outside help, and that's what made him so scary.

>>16766831
>Based on nothing? Fuck off
Of course you did, you have no evidence that even her at her full power is stronger than the heroines. And again, you ignored the part where SHE suggests that even if she wasn't going easy she'd still lose. You also somehow discarded her losing in Swr by saying ''oh tasofro made her walking animation be related to her job so bam, there!''.
>>16766844
It's true though? She's one of many.

>>16766831
I don't even see the point of debating strength when fights in Gensokyo are completely unrelated to it and winning isn't always in one's best interest.

>>16766849
The entire point of Aya's character is that she's a "polite" and "humble" "friendly" sort who is, for some reason, dabbling in news business even though it's pointless. She's also ancient and powerful but never shows her power because this doesn't concern her. That's Aya's "deal". Things like her taking notes in a game that has ZUN's blessing and direct involvement, actually taking it easy on people, and just saying an enemy is scary fits her character of humble, but casual and powerful. That's all.

You dismiss this all you want. Again, whatever.

>>16766848
>Yes, they can go train with Byakuren, but that's disassociating themselves from the village,
Uh, not really? what exactly is stopping a villager from looking at Byakuren and going ''hmm so you can turn yourself into a youkai and escape dying of old age just like she did? sign me up!''.

This isn't even about being a follower of Byakuren, this is simply about villagers knowing about her. Even someone who doesn't like her teachings could still get ideas.

>>16766868
pretty much why I avoid them, in the fuckin' first place I was only talking about how her laying down arms is a general indication of her actual kindness, or at the very least aloofness

>>16766835
>Uh, no? She became a youkai and thus is put in a category reserved only for youkai.
She surpassed humanity with many years of training. Nowhere does Akyuu say she became a youkai. Only put her in a similar category for the sake of the book because the end effects were very similar.

That, or Akyuu accidentally put a bit of truth in her article for Byakuren, since her being more-or-less a magician youkai is the actual truth. Still doesn't call her a youkai. Just something that more or less fits into the category of magician.
> why did you miss the part that says that she surpassed humanity, i.e: not longer human?
There are states above humanity that aren't youkaidom. And this is what Akyuu is implying in her article: that Byakuren has surpassed humanity through training, not unlike a Hermit. Of course, given Byakuren's actions, nobody would believe she's a Hermit.

>>16766870
>looking at Byakuren and going ''hmm so you can turn yourself into a youkai and escape dying of old age
That's not what Byakuren claims to teach. Actually exactly the god damn opposite.

Sasuga Byakushit sympathisers.

>>16766724
nice fanfic

>>16766869
>The entire point of Aya's character is that she's a "polite" and "humble" "friendly" sort who is, for some reason, dabbling in news business even though it's pointless.
Really? That didn't seem to be the case when she got angry at Yukari in BAiJR, losing her cool.
>. She's also ancient and powerful but never shows her power because this doesn't concern her
Source that she's powerful?
>Things like her taking notes in a game that has ZUN's blessing and direct involvement
Baloney, you have no idea of knowing that he checked every single thing, especially when HM includes things that ZUN has avoided all this time on his own like the fake Mamizou with the large breasts, the kinda shit you'd see in every other anime game.

You want the biggest proof that ZUN doesn't ''approve'' of everything the people he hires do? Momiji's animal ears and tail.

>>16766892
okay, mate

>>16766849
She's one of the most oldest being in Gensokyo, Self proclamed "fastest" so at least one of the fastest and like said >>16766744 she's implied to be on par with Yuuka. That's pretty far from calling her "simple.

>>16766892
>You want the biggest proof that ZUN doesn't ''approve'' of everything the people he hires do? Momiji's animal ears and tail.
Wasn't it made official that ZUN's stance on animal features is pretty much "don't know, don't care" though?

>>16766903
yes

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>>16766889
I've written better.

>>16766877
>. Nowhere does Akyuu say she became a youkai.
Yes she does, she put her in the category of magician, which Akyuu explicitly says are youkai.

If she wasn't a youkai then why would she put her in a youkai subcategory?
>Only put her in a similar category for the sake of the book because the end effects were very similar.
There's absolutely NOTHING that suggests this. Hell, ''training'' isn't that much different from becoming a magician through a ritual.
>Still doesn't call her a youkai.
Yes she does, how many times do I have to tell you that Akyuu says that those in the magician category are youkai?
>>16766886
>That's not what Byakuren claims to teach
Uh, okay? I never said anything about her teachings, I even mention how you don't even have to like her to get ideas about turning into a youkai simply by learning about her existence.

>>16766848

This is also what makes Yukari's offer in this chapter even more foreboding. Yukari is the one youkai who is most involved with keeping the balance of Gensokyo. So when she's trying to break it overtly like this, it means that she's got a way out of ending Gensokyo. And my thought is, the human belief itself is that way out.
Thanks a lot Sumireko, you might have ended mankind in Gensokyo.

>>16766898
Do the other tengu not share these aspects? I mean, she's just a lackey and responds to a higher authority.

>>16766903
Naturally, considering he lets said artists do whatever they want in the first place.

>>16766935
I recall Aya being noted as particularly strong, and considering how much free reign she's given I could see that being the case. She's also a named character so I guess she's more notable than most.

Tengu are supposed to be very powerful on the whole, though, notable in that they basically rule Youkai Mountain and the only creatures they bowed to in the past were the strongest: the oni.

>>16766917
>If she wasn't a youkai then why would she put her in a youkai subcategory?
Because the end effects were similar, and she does use magic. However, Akyuu makes it a point to say that she achieved her potentially immortal body through training, not magic - then shoots herself in the foot by mentioning that in spite of all that she still uses evil magic and you totally shouldn't go in her footsteps.
>Hell, ''training'' isn't that much different from becoming a magician through a ritual.
It is, at least in Touhou. Compare what we know about Touhou hermits and what we know about Touhou magicians. On a very basic level, training is focused on bettering the self through actions and metal states, while magiciandom can be achieved by acquiring forbidden knowledge and forcibly modifying the self afterwards.

One of these takes long years of training and carries a serious risk (shinigami), the other can be done by anyone and carries relatively few risks. Guess which one is best kept out of the reach of Gensokyo's humans, and which will seem a bit unappealing to those same humans?

>>16766947
Oh that's right, the mountain youkai would shit their pants if the underground oni came back up to the surface.

>>16766935
There is nothing that indicates or disproves this, but when Aya is described as being over 1000 years old, there's nothing that says this is normal for Tengu.

Though come to think of it, I don't recall ever seeing anything regarding the conventional genesis of youkai. Like, I've never seen one poof into existence. Do those Urban Legends count?

>>16766969
Ah whoops. There's the Tsukumogami from DDC and FS.

>>16766917
>I never said anything about her teachings
You didn't have to. Byakuren being a youkai isn't common knowledge in Gensokyo, and her entire public image is based on her teachings, which promote the abandonment of selfish desires, including immortality.

You'd have to be an Outsider with meta knowledge of the setting to look at Byakuren and think, "I'm gonna youkaify myself like that big-titted bitch." No human in Gensokyo would.

>>16766969
urban legends are different, but I think that's just because of Sagume's sorcery

I'm pretty sure that the way urban legends manifest is how youkai manifest, though, or how they're supposed to generally: fears, the dark, explanations of phenomena IE echoes

but then once they're "believed in" they're left to their own devices, which is weird -- they can even change what they're known for, like the kappa

They can die out like urban legends, though, like the yamabiko. Overall, I think it's shaky how youkai work.

>>16766974
Isn't Kogasa also this case?

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>>16766992
Yeah. It's actually surprising how many of them there are in the series, now that I think about it.

>>16766940
How does him being lenient toward visual depictions disprove all the strict creative control he had over, say, WaHH? To the point of the artist complaining about it in an omake?

>>16766992
I'm pretty sure by all means Kogasa should be dead, but indeed she's an item given life. She was supposed to gain sustenance from surprising and fear but she's Kogasa, so...

From the way Raiko was talking in DDC, it sounds as if tsukumogami can find new purpose or self-sustenance or something. In Kogasa's case, she did many things until she settled on being a blacksmith.

>>16766958
>Because the end effects were similar,
That doesn't mean that you should put a non-youkai in a YOUKAI category. You thinking this is nothing but an assumption. There's a huge deal between someone being a youkai and someone not being one.

Again, there's nothing there that says Byakuren isn't a youkai, especially since this is for the perspective of the villagers. They aren't gonna take your assumption, dude, the most logical thing is to take the fact that magicians are youkai and thus Byakuren is one because Akyuu says she is one.
>Compare what we know about Touhou hermits and what we know about Touhou magicians. On a very basic level, training is focused on bettering the self through actions and metal states, while magiciandom can be achieved by acquiring forbidden knowledge and forcibly modifying the self afterwards.
Good thing Akyuu says she's a magician anyway, so she's a youkai, because if she wasn't then she'd put her in a non-youkai caegory like ''ascended human'' or whatever.
>>16766986
>Byakuren being a youkai isn't common knowledge in Gensokyo,
It is though, Akyu wrote about it.

Also again, the count was killed as a preventive measure even though there's nothing that suggests that a villager would learn his origins, how the hell does Byakuren get the chance? So even if Akyuu didn't say she's a magician and thus a youkai, Byakuren would at least cause the same fear on Reimu about villagers learning about her and becoming a youkai.

>>16767008
It SHOULD be noted that WaHH came later, after ZUN got more strict about things. Like, we know he was so lenient with SSiB despite it being a serious work that he didn't even give the moonbitch sisters' weapons proper descriptions.

>>16767008
He sure as hell didn't have that control for the fairies manga.

>>16767009
She's apparently finding it easier to surprise people in Myouren Temple's cemetary. Thanks Byakuren.

>>16767011
>It is though, Akyu wrote about it.
Akyuu wrote that Byakuren achieved her power through training, which is TOTALLY SEPARATE FROM THE EVI MAGIC SHE USES, GUYS, SERIOUSLY THEY ARE COMPLETELY UNRELATED!

The reason she's in the magician category is because she effectively is, both in reality and by way of what her purported training achieved. You know, even though it goes against Akyuu's own definition of magician. All training, though. That magic? Not related. Please don't imitate.

>>16766328
I think so, too, but in the middle of their conversation or as she gets there some youkai will be there to "drop in" or she'll overhear something like about how much Reimu will tolerate from youkai or how she really gets along with them which will break her idealized view of Reimu as a great hero and humanity's ally, leaving her nowhere to turn.

>>16767031
>Akyuu wrote that Byakuren achieved her power through training
So? Hell Akyuu mentions that she uses magic an that because of it she's never gonna enter Nirvana.

Point being, Akyuu says she's part of the magician category, which Akyuu says are youkai.

>>16767040
But she already knows Reimu is buddy buddy with youkai as shown in the Kappa chapter where Reimu defends them (and even Reimu herself is perplexed by that).

Also Reimu's shrine being a youkai haven is common knowledge.

>>16767044
Yes, but keep in mind, you human guys reading this, she achieved that through training, so it's totally different and separate from her using magic, which can also turn a person into a youkai, but it wasn't the case with Byakuren, so please don't follow in her footsteps, even if her magic is something completely not related to what she is. Please. It's really hard and tiring and risky to achieve immortality through training like Byakuren totally did, and you wouldn't like it anyway, so really, don't try to be like her.

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>>All the posts decrying Aya holding back and not fighting seriously
From her MoF profile:
>Aya went easy on the intruder, put on a show of vigorously defending herself, and purposefully lost. After all, if she let the intruder enter the mountain without putting up a fight, she would likely be suspected of being an accomplice to the humans.
QED.


>>16766935
That don't mean too much. Tengu society is ruled by castes and bureaucracy and that sort of thing, not plain strength. Tenma could be stronger, sure, but not necessarily.

>>16766961
I think everyone would shit their pants if the oni returned to the surface en masse. Though yes, especially the mountain folk.

>>16766990
I figured if there was something that said "Tengu come about in a specific way" and that way was limited to some period of time, then it would be safe to argue that all the Tengu were old as dirt.

That doesn't seem to be the case though so I'm going to look for some credible source regarding Tengu-related beliefs and assume for now that some Tengu are much older than others.

>>16767057
This isn't even about following her method, this is just about the idea itself of humans turning into a youkai, which they could learn from elsewhere like a shady book or a shady youkai.

>>16766892
>Source that she's powerful?
She catches Roukanken barehanded in this very canon touhou anime episode, yes she is really that powerful.
https://youtu.be/QiwkN-TdF9s?t=4m33s

>>16767044
Point is, Akyuu puts Byakuren into the magician category because that's what Byakuren is (in reality), but goes out of her way to mention that she is different from other magicians and achieved her immortality through years of training, rather than a magical ritual which anyone could potentially go through and stop being human.

Heck, she even goes as far as pretending to be perplexed as to why youkai flock to Byakuren.

>>16767061
>>Aya went easy on the intruder, put on a show of vigorously defending herself, and purposefully lost. After all, if she let the intruder enter the mountain without putting up a fight, she would likely be suspected of being an accomplice to the humans.
>QED.
I take it you missed the part in the game about Aya suggesting herself that even if she hadn't gone easy on em she could've still lost? As well as more importantly her defeats in the other games?

Have you forgotten the reason Aya let them through in the first place? Because she supports their cause, but not putting up at least a bit of a fight would get her funny looks from the higher ups.

>>16767078
Not him but can you show me where it says that in MoF stage 4?

>>16767076
>but goes out of her way to mention that she is different from other magicians and achieved her immortality through years of training, rather than a magical ritual which anyone could potentially go through and stop being human.
Uhm, I think the bigger point here is the simple fact that Akyuu says she was once a human but now is a magician and thus a youkai.

I mean, it's not like people have to follow her method, all they need is the idea of ''human -> youkai'', which is the reason Nosferatu was killed, and he hadn't even done anything yet!

>>16767069
And Akyuu's (and Yukari's, and everyone else's whose life depends on Gensokyo's faith farm) idea is to make the difficult and undesirable methods of attaining immortality visible over the easy and widely available ones, so as to avoid giving the human population wrong ideas. Hence pointing out how Byakuren supposedly achieved immortality through long and arduous training, rather than the evil magic she openly uses, even in front of the villagers.

I doubt Byakuren would be a danger anyway, since she has no interest in turning humans into youkai (since she needs humans' faith to maintain her own eternal youth by proxy), and her public persona is that of a Buddhist preacher, who advise against pursuing immortality anyway.

>>16767071
Ah, Aya is really strong!

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2cute.

>see the thread
>Byakuren is at fault as well!, Byakuren must be exterminated! Byakuren is gonna convert people into yokai!
Pls kill yourself fanficwriter-kun for overthinking things, or atleast hit the shower and get a clue.
Even if humans from the human village are tempted to became magicians from the many example provided, Reimu ust gotta exterminate them all.
Even the stupidest of humans understands the choice between living idly in their comfy medieval homes with their beloved family, OR turns into something hated by everyone you know and is immediately on deathrow for breaking the tabboo.

>>16767094
>Akyuu says she was once a human but now is a magician and thus a youkai.
She is literally a magician as in she openly uses magic (something someone should really knock Byakuren upside the head), but Akyuu's point is to make Byakuren's "surpassing humanity" appear an effect of hard training (something that would seem unappealing to the average villager), rather than the easier, hocusey-pocusey way which Byakuren used in reality, and which the Fortune Teller got bifurcated for using in the end.

As has already been said in the thread, it's to avoid giving the human populace ideas of, oh I don't know, ceasing being an unwitting faith battery for Gensokyo's youkai and gods. Immortality is years and years of hard work, guys, and certainly not as easy as casting a few spells that turn you into a youkai, so just forget about it and go back to bullying fairies.

>>16767098
>) idea is to make the difficult and undesirable methods of attaining immortality visible over the easy and widely available ones, so as to avoid giving the human population wrong ideas.
I think you're reaching too far. It'd be much better to hide the fact that she's a youkai at all. Especially since, again, humans could just look into other ways of turning into a youkai. I mean, magicians aren't the only kind of youkai that were known to be humans before and training isn't the only way to become one, and this is known because:

>rather than the evil magic she openly uses, even in front of the villagers.
Have you forgotten that Akyuu mentioned way back in PMiSS that humans could turn into magician youkai, i.e: no scary training theory like you claim?

>>16767090
I should've said this too, but the correlation between potential destructive power and danmaku is somewhat nebulous too. It seems more related to magical potency than overall destructive potential.

>>16766663
The post being responded to is a complete explanation of why Fortune Teller was a fucking idiot and went about turning into a jinyou, which is against the law of the land in Gensokyo. It's not unclear at all.

>>16767120
see
>>16767124

I don't know why you keep spouting that idea that Akyuu wants to spook humans away by mentioning hard training when she's already casually mentioned that humans can turn into magicians through other means.

And as said, it'd be much better to not mention that at all, if what they wanted was to prevent humans from turning into youkai, because even if the spooky training could scare them, they could still just find other methods.

I'm pretty certain ZUN wasn't even thinking about this back during PMiSS, or UFO either.

>>16767118
At least read the original post and realize that the whole argument is about how stupid this whole thing is just like you said and is proof of ZUN's inconsistency. Because the fortune teller was killed for something that should have meant Byakuren's death forever ago.

>>16767124
The difference is, magicians live in separation from the Human Village, while Byakuren's temple is as close as to allow humans to visit it more or less unmolested (at least until they get there, heh). Once more, all of this subterfuge is to avoid having the random villager go, "Hmm, I'm gonna cast a spell and turn myself into a youkai and potentially give my neighbours the same idea" and diminishing Gensokyo's faith farm's output.
>hurr durr then why is Byakuren's presence close to the village tolerated at all???
Because for one, Byakuren has come up with the Buddhist persona, which would make it politically unfavourable for anyone to move her forcibly, and could be seen as an outright act of restriction in the villagers' eyes. That, and getting the Palanquin flying again would cause a stir of its own.
>hurr durr then why was muh husbando Fortune Teller miko'd brutally at the peak of his life when he didndu nuffin?
Because he was stupid enough to transform in the middle of the day, in the middle of the village, with Reimu nearby, after endangering Reimu's friend, and then tried insulted Reimu to her face instead of flying for the hills where he could have lost pursuit.

Villagers don't publicly know these things though. Though the information is available, there's not much interest in it, by design. Even Kosuzu didn't know how things worked until Akyuu literally handed her Gensokyo Chronicle. And the one group that did were quashed by Keine for being rebellious shitters.

>>16767136
But those don't change the fact that the main reason he's killed is because they don't want other humans to get ideas about turning into youkai. The count acting boastful about it should be the least of his worries.

>>16767156
Why do you keep ignoring the simple fact that Byakuren isn't from the Human Village in Gensokyo? This is a massive point that you can't just sweep away under the rug. Alice is the same way, she is a human-turned-magician who does not live in the Village and is not subject to their rules. In fact she is welcomed into the Village where she performs puppet shows for the children.

>>16767165
>The difference is, magicians live in separation from the Human Village,
Uh, how does that matter at all? The point here is that Akyuu casually says in the book that anyone in the village can read, that you can turn into a youkai just by doing a ritual.

Isn't that what you said Akyuu was trying to avoid?

>>16767174
No shit that's the main reason why he was killed. Every single step of his process was wrong and misguided. How do people feel sorry for this character?

>>16767144
>And as said, it'd be much better to not mention that at all, if what they wanted was to prevent humans from turning into youkai, because even if the spooky training could scare them, they could still just find other methods.
And those methods are available to them: hermitage is always an option, training is always an option, Miko is taking apprentices, etc. But the point is those methods are very difficult, lead to isolation, and you really shouldn't try them if you want to continue living your idyllic life in the Human Village.

Gensokyo's powers-that-be aren't forbidding the difficult ways. Any outright prohibition would naturally spark a feedback movement, and they don't want that. But they are gently dissuading the humans of Gensokyo from trying those ways, and actively punish taking the easy ones. Because wide-spread abandonment of humanity would only lead to bad things for everyone.

>>16767177
>Why do you keep ignoring
I did not, in fact I pointed it out within the first few replies, way to prove even more that you're not reading at all.

The point I said was that it makes no sense whatsoever if what they're trying to avoid is people becoming youkai. This wasn't an issue back when Akyuu casually mentioned it in PMiSS so why is it an issue now?

>>16767174
Alright. Simple as possible. Reasons for Reimu to exterminate your ass
1. You're from village.
2. You become a youkai.
Byakuren isn't from village. Therefore why would Reimu give a damn about her?

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>>16767183
>Uh
Will you stop that? State your argument and opinions clearly and without resorting to verbal theatrics.

>>16767184
I don't feel sorry for him at all.
>>16767196
And why would it matter that the culprit is from the village or not if the actual reason for this rule is the fact that it could make villagers get ideas about turning into youkai?

>>16767207
Byakuren isn't giving people the idea of turning themselves into youkai.
1) She teaches Buddhism, which advises abandoning one's desires. She doesn't teach magic or youkaidom.
2) Most humans in Gensokyo only know she's a Buddhist who achieved a powerful form through years of training. Most don't realise she's a youkai, and are surprised or even dismayed about her associating with youkai at all.

>>16767207
>And why would it matter
Clearly, it matters if it's rule. Answer the question.

>>16767192
>But the point is those methods are very difficult
How exactly is Akyuu making of point of how difficult it is? I don't see it at all, especially in PMiSS where she casually mentions how a human can turn into a youkai.

Again, you're reaching way too much into this. Especially since the bigger point I said is still there: the fact that Akyuu's blatantly saying that humans can turn into youkai, and no, there's nothing about ''don't do it it's very hard and scary!'' like you make it out to be.

>>16767224
Does it say that here? https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Magician

The part with the child magicians, specifically.

>>16767224
All right. Here's what Akyuu advocates, in simple terms:
1. Magicians are a thing, and a human can become a magician, but it's not as fun as it's cracked up to be, and you're likely to turn into a hikki or a weirdo like Alice.
2. There are other methods of achieving immortality, which are entirely acceptable but take hard work and carry some risks.
3. Either way, you lot should carry on with your lives and only let the weirdos and really dedicated folks try to pursue immortality. Alternatively me, but I'm kind of special myself.
4. At any rate, you should still fear youkai and revere the gods, because that's how things are meant to be. Here's a few countermeasures if you run into a youkai outside the village though.

[1] Footnote. Byakuren is a lying shit, and I like tasty foods.

>>16767156
I did not need to read all the post to realize its all the same fail rhetoric of yours, nignog.

I'll entertain you again
>>16767207
>And why would it matter that the culprit is from the village or not if the actual reason for this rule is the fact that it could make villagers get ideas about turning into youkai?
See, you still dont get it. The rule doesnt care about the implications. The rule is simple. The rule is that humans from the Human Village are prohibited from becoming more than human. Thats it. It doesnt concern anything else. If your retarded ass somehow, SOMEHOW, still be tempted to turn yourself into yokai even with knowing the stake, then dont question about it when Reimu, Marisa, or maybe some other authoritative youkai exterminate you.

>>16767221
>1) She teaches Buddhism
I already addressed this, this has absolutely nothing to do with her teachings, this is just about people learning about her existence at all, even people that hate her could know about this.
>2) Most humans in Gensokyo only know she's a Buddhist who achieved a powerful form through years of training. Most don't realise she's a youkai, and are surprised or even dismayed about her associating with youkai at all.
Akyuu says that she's part of the magician category, which she explicitly says are youkai.

Again, this is nothing about people having to be followers of her. This is just about someone reading Akyuu's book and going ''oh she turned into a youkai to avoid dying of age like a pussy? sign me up!''. Hell like I said, this isn't even exclusive to Byakuren but Akyuu herself casually mentioned humans turning into youkai back in PMiSS.

>>16767223
Are you being dense on purpose and ignoring what I said? I'm asking how does being from the village matter if the reason for the rule is to prevent villagers from getting ideas about turning into youkai?

If a /jp/sie crosses the barrier and tells everyone about turning into a youkai, they aren't gonna do anything about him because hey, he's not from the village so he's a-ok according to this stupid rule.
>>16767256
See above.

Hell if you had read the original post you'd know I wasn't ever against Byakuren or anything, rather, I'm pointing out ZUN's inconsistent, enigmatic, senseless writing.

>>16767256
>The rule is that humans from the Human Village are prohibited from becoming more than human.
Addendum: it is, however, perfectly acceptable if you remove yourself from the village like Marisa, join an outside group like Miko's entourage, or cut a piece of home for yourself from Gensokyo's dangerous territories.

>>16767261
>Are you being dense on purpose and ignoring what I said?
Answer the question please.

>>16767207

It's the difference between some old textbook noting "Abraham Lincoln got shot by John Wilkes Booth" and then one of your buddies getting shot by robbers. People might not read the book or even know who Abraham Lincoln was, but certainly if their friend was shot, they'd know about it.

>>16767255
Boy that sure is gonna scare people away from IMMORTALITY. Especially this line:
>However, in Gensokyo, magical research is more advanced and learning magic is simple.

You really think ZUN was thinking about this ''become youkai and you gonna die'' rule back when he was writing PMiSS?

Kill a man simply because he had the POSSIBILITY of telling someone about turning into a youkai but nothing wrong when Akyuu straight up tells you about it in a book.

I knew Fortune Teller fans were retarded and have no reading comprehension but this really takes the cake. It's not even a difficult concept to grasp.

>>16767261
>''oh she turned into a youkai to avoid dying of age like a pussy? sign me up!''
Why the fuck would anyone think this when looking at Byakuren, when not only is it written that Byakuren surpassed mortality through years of hard work, but also isn't even teaching others how to do that? What the fuck kind of sense does that make? Akyuu says achieving immortality is a long and difficult process either way, through magic or training, and the average villager would get long discouraged before achieving anything. It's the methods like what the Fortune Teller used, which are simple and effortless in comparison, that need to be kept under wraps. And, through Reimu's work (on top of the Fortune Teller being a dumbshit) they are.

It isn't inconsistent.

The human villagers are pretty retarded and particularly susceptible to rumors and fads, as has been shown time and again.

Part of the reason the Fortune Teller was killed is because he or anyone from the village who might do it has community ties and influence over their friends and neighbors that Byakuren doesn't.

There's a reason why it's very specific about a transgressor being *from the village*.

Someone from outside the village like Alice or who was youkai'd before Gensokyo even existed like Byakuren doesn't have this issue.

Additionally, someone like Byakuren is mysterious, an on high religious leader who showed up one day, set down a ship and founded a temple. Her status and figure is unattainable for many, figuring they could never go through whatever training she had to be able to do that.

But Joe the fishmonger from down the street does it? And so easily at that? And word starts getting around about it, to the point imitators start to try it? Then you have a problem.

>>16767261
Im pretty sure we all ignore what you've said because its ust your rehashed personal headcanon and superiority complex that you've been spouting nonstop.
You are not the only deepfag around, and you're not different than any other theory sprouting fanboy trying to make their 5 minutes. This franchise is 20 years old and you are not some special snowflake that had unleashed a massive conspiracy against the canon and that your word is the new law which we and even ZUN must now obey.

You didnt mean shit. Never were. Continue playing those games that you didnt spend a dime on and those books you've read for free.

>>16767282
>You really think ZUN was thinking about this ''become youkai and you gonna die'' rule back when he was writing PMiSS?
You think he wasn't? Then why are you even bringing up something that you yourself consider a retcon?
>Kill a man simply because he had the POSSIBILITY of telling someone about turning into a youkai but nothing wrong when Akyuu straight up tells you about it in a book.
Akyuu didn't turn herself into a youkai by using negative emotions, didn't endanger a valuable villager, didn't endanger a personal friend of Reimu's, didn't cause a commotion in the middle of the village, and certainly didn't stop and turn around while Reimu was in pursuit just to insult her in the face.

>>16767293
I'm pretty sure the guy is just pretending and seek attention.

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Hello ladies

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>>16767314

>>16767314
wtf I hate him now

>>16767319
That's not her battle face

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>>16767328
Here you go.

>>16767269
Good to know you're childishly covering your ears and not being serious.
>>16767270
Are you really saying ''well maybe this one tiny human village won't read one of the books written by one of their most renowned writers''?

Even then, Akyuu wrote about it, why potentially give people ideas? why risk it at all?
>>16767297
>>16767297
>Why the fuck would anyone think this when looking at Byakuren, when not only is it written that Byakuren surpassed mortality through years of hard work, but also isn't even teaching others how to do that?
Because Akyuu told them she's a youkai and gained immortality?
>Akyuu says achieving immortality is a long and difficult process either way, through magic or training, and the average villager would get long discouraged before achieving anything
You are really keen on the whole ''she totally says that training is hard!'' thing even though she doesn't say that at all.

And more importantly, like I said, she didn't even bring up training as a method to turn into a magician back in PMiSS, she didn't make it sound hard at all there either. Plus the bigger point here as said millions of times is why put the idea of turning into a youkai into people's heads at all? why risk it?
>Akyuu didn't turn herself into a youkai by using negative emotions, didn't endanger a valuable villager, didn't endanger a personal friend of Reimu's, didn't cause a commotion in the middle of the village, and certainly didn't stop and turn around while Reimu was in pursuit just to insult her in the face.
But as said before, the reason he's killed is because he's a human-turned-youkai and could give villagers ideas to also turn into youkai. Him being boastful about it was the least of his problems. Hell Utsuho was threatening to scorch the entire surface and gleefully mentioned how she wants to burn every youkai up there and she got scot free.
>>16767293
I already said I don't feel sorry for him at all, I'm using him as an example of ZUN's inconsistent writing.
>>16767311
How the fuck am I wrong? You people keep using assumptions like ''oh akyuu is trying to discourage them, trust me!'', not ONCE have you people used actual evidence to disprove the fact that Akyuu wrote about people turning into youkai casually and thus could give people ideas, i.e: he very same reason the count was killed.

>>16767348
>you're childishly covering your ears and not being serious.
Oh that's rich coming from someone who still didn't answer my question.

>>16767302
>The human villagers are pretty retarded and particularly susceptible to rumors and fads, as has been shown time and again.
So why write about how you can turn immortal by turning into a magician in PMiSS?
>Part of the reason the Fortune Teller was killed is because he or anyone from the village who might do it has community ties and influence over their friends and neighbors that Byakuren doesn't.
That's reaching, are you saying that an non villager couldn't make people get ideas about turning into youkai? Doesn't matter cause ZUN doesn't explain this at all.
>But Joe the fishmonger from down the street does it? And so easily at that? And word starts getting around about it, to the point imitators start to try it? Then you have a problem.
Except Akyuu already made it seem anyone could do it back in PMiSS.

The point here is that a man got killed just for POTENTIALLY suggesting people that they could turn into a youkai whereas Akyuu STRAIGHT UP tells people they can, and easily too. Hell even if she said it was hard, why give people ideas in the first place?

>>16767348
>You are really keen on the whole ''she totally says that training is hard!'' thing even though she doesn't say that at all.
She does. There are articles linked in this very thread. Or, if you really can't be arsed, take a glance at Byakuren's article in question and notice the phrase "many years of training."

16767348
Why you didnt reply to all those people? How else would they know that you are super serious about thiss??

>>16767306
But I never said any headcanon, in fact you people are the ones making assumptions and using them to defend ZUN, like the ''oh akyuu's trying to scare people from turning into youkai!'' or ''she didn't say Byakuren's a youkai because I say so!''. I'm only using what he's written as evidence.
> This franchise is 20 years old and you are not some special snowflake that had unleashed a massive conspiracy against the canon and that your word is the new law which we and even ZUN must now obey.
Seriously? Me pointing out that ZUN's writing inconsistent is that big of a deal to you?

Hell you people never even addressed the other point I made in the first post: ZUN said that Reimu treats everyone the same. Try to defend that one if you can, I'm sure you'll make shit up like you did with Byakuren though.

>>16767348
>he very same reason the count was killed.
You can't be serious. There are at least four actual reasons he was gohei'd, and you get hung up on the one you made up to be butthurt about?

16767369
Whoa, you didnt even help yourself at all, do you?

>>16767348
forgot to reply to >>16767308

>>16767353
Are you ever gonna make an argument or not?
>>16767364
Not only have I brought up the PMiSS magician article over and over showing that Akyuu casually mentions you being able to turn into a youkai without hard training, but even then, the Byakuren article doesn't try to make her training seem like something you can't do.
>>16767381
Are you SERIOUSLY saying the reason he died is because he pissed off Reimu like EVERY OTHER TOUHOU CHARACTER has done, including far larger threats like Utsuho's case which I mentioned?

The reason he died is because he broke the rule, simple as that.

>>16767391
Are you ever gonna answer my question or not?

>>16767282
Yes, it is, because if you haven't noticed the humans in the village are complete lazy shits who don't pay attention to anything Akyuu or Keine say, even though they are providing rudimentary education on their world. Akyuu's only books that sell are her mystery novels, and Keine's school is incredibly unpopular. Akyuu's most recent book given to Kosuzu could also have started a panic but nobody other than Kosuzu read it.

Fortune Teller fucking killed himself, used dark magic to become a youkai, transformed in the middle of the village (where word spreads quickly and everyone gets caught up in trends), put Kosuzu in danger, and told Reimu step by step how he became a jinyou. That's a lot different from "you can learn magic in Gensokyo but it takes decades of dedication and you're going to become a weirdo, also they're not to be trusted" in Akyuu's documentary on species. It's not "here's how to become a youkai", it's "here's what a magician is, they're born a youkai or become one as a human after decades of hard study and work and then abandoning the things that make them human through the highest level spells" in her documentary book. The fact that her book is full of things like threat levels should indicate to you that the entire thing is how to avoid youkai because they are dangerous. It's Akyuu's job to Chronicle Gensokyo, she'd be a shit Child of Miare if she didn't document these things.

It's not inconsistent.

Byakuren and Alice are not from the village. They are considered magical beings who put in decades of hard work to ascend. Same with hermits.

Fortune Teller is some trick-ass bitch from the village who killed himself because he wanted to become a youkai in 3 easy steps and his plan hinged ENTIRELY on the village humans finding his book, talking about him, spreading his knowledge, and getting jealous. This is the crux of the matter that you're just not getting.

Humans aren't going to round themselves up en masse to become magicians, and even if they did they'd quit because its difficult. They could

>If a /jp/sie crosses the barrier and tells everyone about turning into a youkai, they aren't gonna do anything about him because hey, he's not from the village so he's a-ok according to this stupid rule.
A /jp/sie would be killed instantly by the roaming youkai like Rumia or carved up by Sakuya to feed Remi because he is free meat who is not protected by the rules of the village, even implicitly

>>16767348
Yes, in fact, that is exactly what I'm saying. This isn't a modern village with high standards of education. It's a farming town that is in the middle of thousands of dangerous youkai. Not much time to sit down and read books unless you're rich, a noble, or Kosuzu.
In fact, being too educated can get you in trouble with the teacher, who is just as invested in Gensokyo's balance as any of the other big names.

>>16767391
I am SERIOUSLY saying he was chopped in half because:
1) He killed a human villager (himself) and potentially harmed another (Kosuzu).
2) Turned himself into a youkai using forbidden magic fuelled by negative emotion, as opposed to legitimate training.
3) Caused a commotion in the village while Reimu was nearby, forcing her hand.
4) Instead of allowing her to lose track of him in the pursuit, like he himself was convinced she would what with being a "youkai shrine maiden," he stopped and opted to insult her in her face instead.

There's also the issue of the villager he potentially harmed being Reimu's personal friend, but >>16767369 says Reimu treats everyone the same according to ZUN, so we can put that argument aside.

>>16767407
They could easily retrace his steps if they wanted to. Akyuu doesn't detail how to become a magician at all. Just that humans can become magicians but you put in pretty much your entire life of work into it.

Magicians and hermits are different than jinyou. Why you can't see this is beyond me. Especially when Aya just went out of her way to illustrate different species of youkai can be completely different from each other, and that they consider humans from different places to be completely different.

>>16767407
>A /jp/sie would be killed instantly by the roaming youkai like Rumia or carved up by Sakuya to feed Remi
Or get shanked by any old random youkai persuaded to shank them by someone who cares about preserving Gensokyo's balance. Hell, if he ain't from the village then even Reimu or Marisa could do it. He's free game.

>>16767407
>Yes, it is, because if you haven't noticed the humans in the village are complete lazy shits who don't pay attention to anything Akyuu or Keine say
Are you serious? Now you're using the excuse that Akyuu's writing doesn't matter now?

Jesus what are you gonna do next?
>Fortune Teller fucking killed himself, used dark magic to become a youkai, transformed in the middle of the village (where word spreads quickly and everyone gets caught up in trends), put Kosuzu in danger, and told Reimu step by step how he became a jinyou.
Baby mode compared to everything the game antagonists have done which include KILLING EVERYONE. In other words the one thing that doomed him is the fact that he broke the rule of being a jinyou.
> It's not "here's how to become a youkai
I didn't say that, I said that Akyuu writes that you can become a youkai, again, again, AGAIN, why write that if people get killed over it? what if people care more about immortality than being called a hikki? Gee that doesn't sound likely at all, nope. Akyuu sure is going to convince people.

If the fortune teller did it, what's stopping others from learning and trying?
>Byakuren and Alice are not from the village. They are considered magical beings who put in decades of hard work to ascend
Akyuu does nothing to imply that Alice made decades of effort to get to where she is.

Also again, doesn't matter, she's telling people that they can turn into youkai and become immortal, NO amount of discouragement other than straight up telling them Reimu's gonna kill their asses can be considered useful enough to warrant including the aforementioned.
>A /jp/sie would be killed instantly by the roaming youkai like Rumia or carved up by Sakuya to feed Remi because he is free meat who is not protected by the rules of the village, even implicitly
Not necessarily, Akyuu says there are survivors from the outside world, especially if they find Reimu's shrine where she'll lead them to the village. Said survivors are said to become celebrities due to their outside world knowledge.

>>16767434
>Baby mode compared to everything the game antagonists have done which include KILLING EVERYONE.
Were those antagonists humans from the village? No? Then they aren't subject to the same rules.

>>16767434
You seem to think you're responding to one person when there are multiple people who know you're fucking retarded.

Akyuu's entire existence as the Child of MIare is to chronicle Gensokyo's history and species. Of course she's going to detail what a magician is.

>Baby mode compared to everything the game antagonists have done which include KILLING EVERYONE
Those are youkai. He was a villager. You're a fucking moron.

>what if people care more about immortality than being called a hikki?
They don't. Why can't you grasp this?

>>16767446
>You're a fucking moron.
Can't see an article on those anywhere in Akyuu's books.

>>16767408
>This isn't a modern village with high standards of education. It's a farming town that is in the middle of thousands of dangerous youkai. Not much time to sit down and read books unless you're rich, a noble, or Kosuzu.
Oh sure, you're telling me that Akyuu wrote that without any fear that anyone could get ideas about becoming a youkai like the fortune teller did. That makes sense.
>>16767415
Honey, none of those things are even remotely CLOSE to being as harmful as say, everyone dying by horrible, face-melting scorching suns coming out of Utsuho's giant throbbing rod.

Again, in other words, it means the one that thing that got him a punishment far worse than any other antagonist is the fact that he broke THE rule, the one that leads to your death.
>>16767440
I'm saying the actions done by the fortune teller are nothing compared to ones done by others that got scot free.
>>16767446
>You seem to think you're responding to one person
I'm not.
>>16767446
>Akyuu's entire existence as the Child of MIare is to chronicle Gensokyo's history and species. Of course she's going to detail what a magician is.
Haven't you people used the fact that she lied about Byakuren as an argument? So why say that she has to tell the truth now?
>Those are youkai. He was a villager.
So what? Are you saying there's no logic to the rules? That the reason the rule exists isn't because of the danger that a jinyou could cause to the village?
>They don't. Why can't you grasp this?
You can speak for everyone in the village?

Also, even if they didn't, how does that make sense? How is it convincing to a reader that NOBODY could be interesting in something as huge as immortality simply because Akyuu says they might become loners?

Didn't the fortune teller become a youkai? Didn't Alice become a youkai? Didn't Byakuren become a youkai? In other words, they are humans that cared more about immortality than anything else.

>>16767474
>interesting
*interested

I love how EVERY SINGLE touhou manga thread is a flamewar.
The funniest part is that you awalys argue about the same arguments.

>>16767481
I don't recall this argument in the previous thread.

>>16767426
>>16767407
Im still halfway hoping for that anon from a thread years ago that he says he wants to ride the hype and is working on a Slender type game where you are a human from the outside that is whisked into Gensokyo as part of Yukari's feeding time.
The goal is to reach Hakurei Shrine from Road of Reconsideration and hopes that Reimu is in the mood after "reading your soul" that you deserved to be saved.
The thing is, you arent alone when transported, and how'd you react with fellow humans would dictate howd Reimu treat you in the end. There is definitely some points where you can inure or cripple your fellow survivor to bait the yokai in the area and give you some time to run freely undetected, which naturally gives you a huge penalty in the end.

Does anybody remember this or maybe im remembering the other imageboard?

>>16767486
I don't remember arguing about this either. More like about what Yukari potentially had in store.

>>16767474
>others that got scot free.
Those were mostly non-human - the kind that Gensokyo exists to protect. Of course their wrongs would be righted with as little damage as possible. Yes, Yukari's grand plan is hypocritical like that.
>but Okuu
First of all, youkai. Second of all, Okuu isn't subject to Gensokyo's laws. Third of all, destroying Okuu could have started a war with the Underworld, which is also not subject to Gensokyo's laws. Nobody wanted, needed or desired that. Okuu herself was drunk with power. Also stupid.

>>16767492
Arguing about current events in Forbidden Scrollery would be much more interesting than reading this shit and seeing people cry about the Fortune Teller for the 900th time

>>16767503
This.

I know it isnt her style to boast, but I kinda wish Aya casually turns Kosuzu's gramophone's speaker into an abstrat art form when she doubted her strenght.. mite be more punctual

What happened to /jp/?

>>16767474
I can't say that she thought it was without risks. There will always be the chance of people being dumb fuckers like the Fortune Teller. But her duty is to write the Chronicle to the best of her knowledge. No more, no less. It is the task of others to enforce the laws.

>>16767503
I don't like it either because it's been discussed to death and I recognize the details that would put it to rest are not currently available but I'll recognize that that issue is relevant right now.

>>16767497
>Those were mostly non-human - the kind that Gensokyo exists to protect
That's like saying that you shouldn't jail criminals because we're supposed to care after each other as a species.
>First of all, youkai
So what? There's nothing that says you shouldn't kill youkai, ESPECIALLY for Reimu.
> Second of all, Okuu isn't subject to Gensokyo's laws
I didn't mention any laws, but it sure as hell doesn't make sense that this threat (the jinyou) is dealt with death and this other threat (this youkai potentially killing all the other youkai in the surface) is dealt with a gohei up the butthole and nothing else.

Have you forgotten about the OTHER guy Reimu killed during Forbidden Scrollery that had a spirit (i.e: youkai) inside of him? In other words, Reimu killed a youkai plain and simple.
>Third of all, destroying Okuu could have started a war with the Underworld,
Seriously? The hell did you get that from?

what about Junko? She's not a youkai is she? Nah we're just gonna have a tea party over at Eirin's.

>>16764574
no, Mamizou's position is as strong as ever

Physically intimidate your target, then calm them down, soothe them, tell them you're friends and you're there to listen to their concerns

Classic femdom tactic.

>>16767516
>But her duty is to write the Chronicle to the best of her knowledge
Clearly not considering she lied about Byakuren.

>>16767537
>That's like saying that you shouldn't jail criminals because we're supposed to care after each other as a species.
The fuck?
>So what? There's nothing that says you shouldn't kill youkai, ESPECIALLY for Reimu.
Reimu is Gensokyo's shrine maiden. Among her duty is the preservation of Gensokyo. Reimu invented the Spell Card rules explicitly to avoid having to delete youkai who misbehave. You're an idiot.
>Have you forgotten about the OTHER guy Reimu killed during Forbidden Scrollery that had a spirit (i.e: youkai) inside of him? In other words, Reimu killed a youkai plain and simple.
Have you forgotten that Gensokyo's youkai are forbidden from causing harm to the Human Village? Horsey-kun not only killed the Salt Merchant, it also possessed the Merchant's dead body. That's two transgressions done. Reimu even feels bad about not being there to prevent it, because then she could have saved both the Merchant and the youkai.
>Seriously? The hell did you get that from?
Oh, you know, only the Underworld being referred to as a lawless district, combined with Okuu being generally liked in the Underworld, with a sprinkling of play fucking SA and see how Yukari and others feel about interfering with the Underworld's folk for yourself.

>>16767540
Akyuu doesn't know everything. She thought Eirin and Kaguya were humans. She categorizes Byakuren as a magician due to her training, but says she is an ally of youkai and uses evil magic. What part of this isn't true

>>16767559
>The fuck?
Yes?
>Reimu is Gensokyo's shrine maiden. Among her duty is the preservation of Gensokyo. Reimu invented the Spell Card rules explicitly to avoid having to delete youkai who misbehave
Yeah that didn't apply for the youkai fortuneteller, did it?
>Have you forgotten that Gensokyo's youkai are forbidden from causing harm to the Human Village?
You mean like what nearly every game antagonist was trying to do?
>Oh, you know, only the Underworld being referred to as a lawless district, combined with Okuu being generally liked in the Underworld, with a sprinkling of play fucking SA and see how Yukari and others feel about interfering with the Underworld's folk for yourself.
I don't see any proof here, killing someone who was wlling to kill everyone in the surface seems pretty logical. Especially since nobody in the underground is bothered by surface dwellers interfering, it seems more like it's the surface dwellers themselves who have a hatred for the underground than vice versa.

Especially in the Reimu A scenario where it's made clear that Yukari is the one making Reimu fight innocent bysanders, particularly in the first stage against Yamame and the fourth stage against Satori. Hell Reimu herself tells Yukari that she sees no reason to fight them, but Yukari tells her to do it anyway cause ''they're the enemy''.

>>16767568
>Akyuu doesn't know everything
Okay so the whole thing about her trying to trick people into thinking that turning into a youkai is bad has been thrown out the window? Good to know.
>She thought Eirin and Kaguya were humans
Even that one is understandable since they're aliens that just so happen to look like humans.

>>16767589
That's an astounding leap of logic.

>>16767568
How does not knowing exactly how Byakuren became a youkai invalidate the entire rest of Gensokyo Chronicle? It doesn't? Well then.
Also, I checked, and it didn't come up at all during the Symposium, only the supplementals for UFO. So the only person in universe that knows the deal with the devil Byakuren made is Byakuren herself.

>>16767578
>Yeah that didn't apply for the youkai fortuneteller, did it?
No, since he was subject to a different set of laws. Reimu possibly could have made an exception, if the Fortune Teller hadn't been an idiot. She probably didn't because he harmed her friend (or so she believed) and made himself out to be a villain while insulting her to her face.
>You mean like what nearly every game antagonist was trying to do?
Didn't play many Touhou games, did you?
>Yukari tells her to do it anyway cause ''they're the enemy''.
And that's exactly why nothing permanent was done to Okuu. Harmlessly demonstrating your power like Reimu did at Yukari's behest is one thing. Another entirely is to execute a member of an "enemy" faction in a time of upheaval. In fact, Reimu demonstrated Gensokyo to be morally superior by letting Okuu go - especially since Okuu had essentially been manipulated into what she was about to do.

Oh, and of course, Okuu didn't actually harm anyone at all, let alone anyone from the village. Unlike one knife-eared moron I could name.

Nobody reads Akyuu's books anyway

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>>16767685
I do

Akyuu's profession that humans can become magician youkai through training (which is a matter of fact) and her profession that youkai including magicians are deceitful and can be downright dangerous are not mutually exclusive things.

Akyuu simply reports on the fact that humans can become magicians while simultaneously saying both in the magician article (magicians are liars, thieves, and can steal children away) and in the rest of the book that youkai are dangerous beings, the enemies of humanity. She isn't inconsistent.

>>16767696
Please do not abuse spoiler function.

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>>16764758
>>16764795
It's too bad Mamizou might have ruined her chances to finger bang the Suzucunny.

>>16767696
Gee Tanuki how come Yukari lets you prey on TWO bookworm humans

>>16767677
>No, since he was subject to a different set of laws. Reimu possibly could have made an exception, if the Fortune Teller hadn't been an idiot
You can't know that, other characters, besides threatening Gensokyo (and thus Reimu's friends too), have also insulted her.
>Didn't play many Touhou games, did you?
Hey hey hey, you don't get to dodge this point like this, this is like the one that completely breaks your argument, Utsuho in particular was threatening the safety of the surface including the human village AND all the youkai.
>In fact, Reimu demonstrated Gensokyo to be morally superior by letting Okuu go
Clearly not in the case of the fortune teller or the horse spirit fella.
> especially since Okuu had essentially been manipulated into what she was about to do.
Kanako herself says she only tried to fool Okuu into working for her but Okuu went nuts on her own and Kanako then just waited in the surface, saying that, if Okuu did manage to get out of the underground, she'd just selfishly leave Gensokyo to burn and escape to the outside world with her 2 goons, the slug and the frog. Also Reimu did scold Kanako for irresponsibly giving Utsuho nuclear powers in SA, but that's it.
>Oh, and of course, Okuu didn't actually harm anyone at all, let alone anyone from the village.
So, trying to commit mass genocide and failing means you're a-ok? That makes sense.

>>16767700
But what's being pointed out is that despite the fact that humans turning into youkai is dealt with execution, Akyuu is casually giving people ideas about it back in PMiSS and later on SoPM. She doesn't even mention that villagers turned youkai are to be killed by the shrine maiden.

>>16767700
The one being called inconsistent is ZUN, not Akyuu.

>>16767740
Here it is in caveman terms:
Me stupid youkai, me kill village human = ded by Reimu.
Me stupid youkai, Reimu stop me from kill human = me live.
Me stupid youkai, me kill village human, but me smart enough to argue my case with Reimu away from prying ears, in a manner that speaks to her personal principles rather than insulting them = me potentially let to live, though technically a condemned youkai, and Reimu may be forced to eliminate me at a later date if her hand is forced or if I cause further trouble like youkai are wont to do.

>>16767748
No, she's reporting on a matter of fact in her history book while discouraging people entirely from associating with youkai.

>>16767759
>Me stupid youkai, Reimu stop me from kill human = me live.
That's exactly what I'm pointing out is dumb, though. Especially when the threat is far bigger than the one the fortune teller could have caused even though there's no reason he would have caused an incident in the first place, rather, it was just a preventive measure. Meanwhile Okuu over here was straight up bragging about how she's gonna torch all the youkai in the surface.

Also Reimu calmed down after realizing Kosuzu was fine and then killed him while being as coolheaded as possible and even smiling.

>>16767783
>No, she's reporting on a matter of fact in her history book
Is Byakuren ''training to surpass'' humanity a fact?
> while discouraging people entirely from associating with youkai
Telling people that they're gonna get fucking immortality but maybe get called a big stupid doodoo head if they do turn into a youkai isn't a very good discouragement I'd say. Point being that she shouldn't even risk mentioning the possibility of being able to turn into a youkai and becoming immortal.

Also again, if she wanted to discourage them, why not mention the fact that jinyous are dealt with execution? Isn't informing people her job?

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I thought the 300+ posts in this thread were because shit went down, and while shit did go down it's pretty disappointing to see what the thread was really about.

Here, photographic proof that the big problem with Nosferatu's plan was that he was a human villager from the human village located in Gensokyo, which isn't even two centuries old, by the way.

>>16767783
Oh shit I forgot.

Yukari manipulates everything that Akyuu writes remember? In other words everything there is written for the sake of the youkai side and can't exactly be trusted 100%.

>>16767815
I don't think you read the argument this whole time if you think anyone was doubting that. In fact the argument pretty much starts by mentioning that.

>>16767800
You are a fucking moron and at this point it's obvious you're just ignoring what people are telling you. Your logic is entirely circular and doesn't even have a direction or point to make.

Akyuu's entire existence is to Chronicle Gensokyo. She does it to the best of her ability. She doesn't know how exactly Byakuren became a magician, and assumes it is part of her training, like she assumed Kaguya and Eirin are humans. She isn't making up some tricky lie to fool people, the only person that knows what Byakuren did is Byakuren.

Akyuu is not going to just not document what a magician is. She documents the village, Gensokyo's history, and her experiences, to leave out how magicians work would not only not make sense from a character standpoint, but stepping back from the entire fictional universe, would mean ZUN would have to release the information in some other way besides using the book he made to document this shit from a human standpoint.

>Telling people that they're gonna get fucking immortality but maybe get called a big stupid doodoo head if they do turn into a youkai isn't a very good discouragement I'd say.
Youkai are dangerous, kill people, are the enemies of humanity. She says this CONSTANTLY in the fucking book and repeats the mantra endlessly in her second one as well. Magicians in particular are liars, thieves, kidnappers, and faudsters. Akyuu's entire written work revolves around seeing youkai as the enemy, youkai are not to be looked up to and admired. This is why she also explicitly calls Byakuren evil, because she allies with them. The entirety of her work and the entire structure of Gensokyo is made to be so John the Farmer doesn't want to become a youkai. Akyuu isn't framing her work as "it's cool to be a magician everyone should do it" like the jinyou did, she reports on what a magician is while repeating that youkai are awful.

Beyond all this you are vastly overestimating the drive of the human village. They don't give a single shit about anything other than their idyllic life. They don't read Akyuu's books, they don't go to Keine's school. They care about big events and are easily swayed by fads and what's popular. The idea that large numbers of villagers would train for years to become magicians to the point where they would become youkai is laughable. But a big giant show in the middle of the village from a vengeful spirit that used to be one of them? Much easier to get them on board.

If someone from the village takes the shortcut and becomes a vengeful spirit and jinyou they get put down. That's the law. That's cool that you think it's retarded I guess, but your feelings on it don't affect the story or universe whatsoever, it's a very simple fact of how the village operates.

>>16767902
>You are a fucking moron and at this point it's obvious you're just ignoring what people are telling you
I have not ignored a single thing people have said, I reply to every point. Meanwhile you people casually ignored my point in the very first post, the one about ZUN saying that Reimu treats everyone equally. My guess is that people didn't try to argue against it because they absolutely could not make anything up to defend ZUN there. There's also other points of mine that were ignored like game antagonists being let scot free for threats much larger than the fortune teller's.
>She isn't making up some tricky lie to fool people,
But that's what people have been using as an argument against me this whole time, I'm only responding to that logic and discarding means that the big plothole of Akyuu giving people ideas about becoming youkai is there despite it being dealt with execution and her not mentioning that last part at all.
>Akyuu is not going to just not document what a magician is. She documents the village, Gensokyo's history, and her experiences, to leave out how magicians work would not only not make sense from a character standpoint, but stepping back from the entire fictional universe,
Oh really? Such a shame that she leaves out the most important part then, the one that says ''YOU ARE TO BE EXECUTED ON SIGHT IF YOU DO THIS''.
>would mean ZUN would have to release the information in some other way besides using the book he made to document this shit from a human standpoint.
Good thing ZUN himself has said that Akyuu's word isn't to be trusted. Also Yukari manipulates everything she writes anyhow.
>She says this CONSTANTLY in the fucking book and repeats the mantra endlessly in her second one as well. Magicians in particular are liars, thieves, kidnappers, and faudsters. Akyuu's entire written work revolves around seeing youkai as the enemy, youkai are not to be looked up to and admire
She says that the ones right now are known for being crooks, this side of the argument was about how hard was it to become a youkai, not about how mean magicians are.
>Akyuu isn't framing her work as "it's cool to be a magician everyone should do it" like the jinyou did, she reports on what a magician is while repeating that youkai are awful.
Obviously not, but the discouragement is mild compared to the benefits that she mentions, including immortality, otherwise people wouldn't become youkai in the first place, like the fortune teller.

>The entirety of her work and the entire structure of Gensokyo is made to be so John the Farmer doesn't want to become a youkai.
And my point is that not only is her discouragement mild and obviously not working, but why risk mentioning the possibility of turning into a youkai in the first place AND NOT MENTION THE FACT THAT YOU'LL BE EXECUTED FOR IT?
>They don't read Akyuu's books
Seriously? This argument again? Even if that were the case that's not even the point here, the point is why would Akyuu tell people about achieving immortality by turning into youkai and not tell them the big death-related repercussion that comes with it, not just ''youkai are mean poopiepants''? Also people do read books as proven by FS itself where Akyuu's books written under the penname Agatha are said to be extremely popular.
>The idea that large numbers of villagers would train for years
This isn't about a large number of villagers, this is about ANYONE potentially wanting to do it because they're attracted by the aspect of immortality. Also there's methods other than training to become a youkai.

The fortune teller did it.
Alice did it.
Byakuren did it.

So what's stopping more people from doing it? Certainly not refraining from telling them that they'll be killed if they try to become a youkai.
> but your feelings on it don't affect the story or universe whatsoever, it's a very simple fact of how the village operates.
Obviously, all I said was how dumb it was and how it didn't make sense and everyone started making shit up to defend it like ''Akyuu was lying about Byakuren to discourage humans''.

And now we've gone back to ''no no she wasn't making shit up'' by you who I'm guessing aren't the one who came up with the Byakuren thing I just mentioned.

>>16768023
>Good thing ZUN himself has said that Akyuu's word isn't to be trusted.
This is later proven by FS where Kosuzu learns that youkai are necessary and that Akyuu was bullshitting essentially for the sake of the village.

>>16767902
>Beyond all this you are vastly overestimating the drive of the human village. They don't give a single shit about anything other than their idyllic life. They don't read Akyuu's books, they don't go to Keine's school. They care about big events and are easily swayed by fads and what's popular
That's broad generalization.

One that didn't stop certain people from becoming youkai anyways.

>>16767407
The more civilized youkai like the SDM wouldn't actively kill humans from the Outside; they only kill humans provided to them by Yukari.

>>16768023
>So what's stopping more people from doing it?
It being hard work. Fortune Teller slacked off, used forbidden methods, and wagered everything on his misguided opinion of Reimu. He paid the price. End of story.

>>16766656
>other magicians only add to my point
no fucker, none of the other magicians fome from the human village and before you mentioning alice she came from makai even if she was a human (the whole point of wonderland in MS) back then and became magician in gensokyo, second hijiri and myouren never was stated that both come from human village and makai is another dimention as well

>>16766672
but how yukari will maintain a reliable source of belief in the long run if she allow that?

>>16766806
as I said above in >>16765721 exist the risk of beind recogniced even if he doesn't want to, that imply in "someone who I know well became a youkai so I can become in one too if I ask him" situation, even if was an inprobable turn of events the mere fact that could happen in X amount of time is too risky to even let occur

>>16766844
to be fair we doesn't know enough about the power that the tengu as a whole have

>>16766736
You're implying that somehow a spell card attack means you're actually damaging a youkai, which is wrong.
Even then, Sumireko is likely imbuing the power of the gun that with her power in the form of something like a psionic blast.

>>16769555
That would explain its infinite ammo and perfect accuracy.

>>16767481
It maybe a rehash argument, but at least it isn't bitching about Clownpiece being in a manga about fairies.

>>16769253

The entire point is that the youkai wouldn't need it anymore.
If such a blatant destruction of the balance were to take place, the humans would believe there to be no drawbacks to becoming youkai. And so it would be, since the power of the Occult Balls enhances the power humans have to affect the reality of Gensokyo.
And thus, the human belief negates its own necessity, then negates itself entirely.

With everyone's cards on the table now, and an Incident coming, Kosuzu's decision is crucial not only for her life, but all Gensokyo.
In my opinion she'll try to choose humanity, but she's well past the Mary threshold now, and Mary herself ain't gonna help that at all.

>>16768548
>It being hard work.
Seriously? This argument again? Haven't we settled that Akyuu did not use that argument like people were claiming and in fact the process for becoming a magician that she mentioned in PMiSS seemed rather simple?
>Fortune Teller slacked off, used forbidden methods
That's not the reason he died, he died simply because he was a jinyou, and in fact that's proof that anyone could do it because they're interested in the prospect of immortality without being discouraged by ''it takes effort''.