"Magician" as a species

>>16492915
>Could it be a translation problem?
No

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>>16492915
Touhou Gaaaytheory thread?
Shinki took care of her and then Marisa gave her good head, years later at a legal age, now she wanted to give Marisa some.
Totally canon plot point.

Alice is just a human who learned to stop her aging, like Byakuren. Magicians as a race are essentially humans who can use magic, with the natural ones just being like wizards in Zero no Tsukaima or Harry Potter - humans who can use magic naturally.

What "magic" is as opposed to natural powers like Sakuya's time stopping or youkai powers is pretty ill defined though.

>>16492963
I swear there was some kind of distinction between a magician who learned magic, as in Marisa, and a magician who WAS magic, like Alice.

>>16492915
Magicians are basically how witches are classically viewed, if that makes you feel any better.

>>16493018
Yes. Magician is the name of both an occupation (à la Marisa), and a species (à la Alice).
Taking it one step farther, there are also different ways a youkai magician can come to be. You can either be born one (Patchouli), or you can turn yourself into one (Byakuren).

>>16493018
>magician who WAS magic, like Alice.
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Alice_Margatroid

Alice was a human who learned magic. Patchouli was a magician from birth.

>>16493018
Read this too
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Magician
>There are two types of magicians: those who were born as magicians and humans who became magicians.
>Those who were born as magicians, from the start, are only able to use magic, and just like humans, they grow, age, and have a limited lifespan.
>There's no way to tell them apart from humans by their appearance.
>Their bodies are nearly the same as humans', so they are frail in comparison to other youkai.

The only distinction is that they are able to use magic from the beginning without having to start from scratch.

>>16493018
>a magician who learned magic
>magician who WAS magic, like Alice.
But who was phone?

>>16493123
so the one who was born (Patchoulli) isnt long-lived compared to the ones like byakuren & alice?

>>16493191
Probably a werewolf from getting bitten by Remilia and Flan too many times in a row.
Check these out!

>>16493191
No, Patchouli was born in the state that Alice and Byakuren had to work to achieve.

Presumably if a human turns themselves into a youkai magician and then has kids, those kids will be born as youkai magicians.

>>16493191
At first, but they have their oen ritual to make themselves not age. After that, they are the same as magicians like Alice, for all intents and purposes.

>>16493191
Who said Alice was long lived?

>>16493290
We don't know if Alice has developed a spell to stop her aging yet, particularly since she's supposed to have become a youkai fairly recently.

Alice is also one of four characters in the series who has actually been shown to age over time [Marisa, Reimu, Akyuu]

>>16493313
Humans who become Magicians stop aging when they become Magicians.
And it's worth keeping in mind that everything written in PMiSS and SoPM comes from a non-omniscient, biased PoV. Alice may be an old Youkai, we don't know for sure.

>>16493323
She hasn't "aged" since Windows started. Make of that as you will.

>>16493331
>Alice may be an old Youkai, we don't know for sure.
We can always invoke the PC98 canon where she was a human during the game and turned to a youkai some time before the extra.

>>16493331
>Humans who become Magicians stop aging when they become Magicians.
No, they stop needing food. The aging thing is separate.

>In the case of those who were originally human, in continuing their study of magic, it is when they learn "abandon food" magic (*3) that they become magicians. After that, it's the same as for normal magicians.

>>16493388
That's not PC-98 canon. Alice is a demon in PC-98 canon.

>>16492915
Someone needs to sit Zun and get him to explain how a job title is a species.

Are there 'Crane Operator' youkai as well?

I want to get a job in engineering then become a youkai to have a kid who is born naturally as an engineer

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>>16493496
I'm pretty sure that's how it works in tf2

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>Ellen is a witch who never grows old. To make up for living for a very long time, she does not have a very good memory. She forgets drops of memories, one after the other. Because of that, she is always a child.

If she was brought back, this would be kind of a sad result of her invoking the magician transformation.

>>16493496
Why would you want to have a kid who is born gay?

The Wizards of Middle Earth were a distinct race.

>>16493623
Weren't they gods or something?

>>16493662
More like angels.

>>16493623
Space Wizards?

>>16493408
Also reminder that while Alice has performed the "no need for food" ritual, she keeps eating out of habit.

How cute is that?

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>>16493448
There are 'Nyuudou Handler' youkai.

>>16493448
It's like how we sometimes consider witches to be magic using women, and other times consider them magical beings or evil spirits.

>>16494401
Yet you don't see Marisa acting like a real witch. Kidnapping, eating children and placing demonic type curses on people.

>>16494446
Has anyone ever written a doujin where the Scarlet's make her a vampire or Kagerou Imaizumi's bite turning her?

>>16493448
>Someone needs to sit Zun and get him to explain how a job title is a species.
Someone needs to read the books and acknowledge that a youkai's existence is determined by what it does. If you understand this, then the fact that "humans who utilize magic", "humans that became magician youkai by use of magic", and "magicians that were already youkai by birth" are three distinct things is almost obvious.

>>16494446
Because she's a human.
That's something a youkai would do.

>>16494446
>Yet you don't see Marisa acting like a real witch
She gained powers from an evil spirit(Mima), makes weird potions, and she shoots magic at people all the time. Marisa also steals everything else, she'd definitely kidnap someone if she had a reason.

>>16494446
#notallwitches

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>>16495586
I disagree! Marisa may take things, but she would never kidnap someone! Marisa is too heroic for that!

>>16495145
Gimme heebie-jeebies european witch Marisa.

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Why doesn't reimu exterminate all these humans turned magicians? Marisa is still obviously human, but alice, byakuren, and patchi disrupt the balance.

>>16496332
She only exterminates human villagers who go out of line.

>>16496332
Beating them in duels counts as extermination

It's not a translation problem.

Patchouli was never human. She was born as a Magician youkai.

Alice was once human but has ascended and become a Magician youkai through use of extremely advanced magic

Marisa is an ordinary human magician

>>16494446
>Yet you don't see Marisa acting like a real witch.
>>16495586
>She gained powers from an evil spirit(Mima)
PC-98 Marisa acts much more like a "real witch" though - she even cackles.

Windows Marisa has no mention of Mima, and was inspired to study magic after watching a meteor shower with Reimu when they were kids (PC-98 Reimu and Marisa did not know each other as kids).

>>16494446
Maybe she just does that kind of stuff when nobody's looking.

>>16494446
>>16496320
Marisa in my eyes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duhkr3jmF94
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av72toPXX4Y

>>16497357
>PC-98 Reimu and Marisa did not know each other as kids
They were kids.

>>16496332
Alice and Byakuren were never part of the Human Village and thus aren't subject to its laws. Furthermore, they both became youkai before coming to Gensokyo, which is essentially a reserve for youkai. They're perfectly welcome within its confine.

Marisa is technically not affiliated with the Human Village anymore, on merit (?) of living in the toxic hellscape she calls the Forest of Magic. She does business IN the village, but isn't technically a townswoman anymore. And, lest we forget, not a youkai, and not planning on youkaihood.

Magician is treated as both an occupation and a race in Touhou.
You have humans like Marisa who study and practice Magic.
Then you have humans like Alice or Byakuren sho utilized the proper magic to disregard their humanity (No longer aging or needing to eat).
Then there's beings like Patchouli who are born naturally proficient at magic due to having nonhuman sorcerer parents. They CAN live as normal humans but will probably likely end up disregarding the little humanity they were born with as well.

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>>16493058
>a youkai magician can come to be
that's forgetting our local favorite flowergirl

They've mastered their own mortality, hence they are no longer mortal.

Does Alice poop? She still eats despite not needing to. Where does the food go?

>>16498798
I mean they weren't friends before Marisa learned magic. The first time PC-98 Reimu met PC-98 Marisa was as Mima's henchman. Also there was no Gensokyo in the PC-98 games, and no Kourindou for them to see the meteor shower at.