Touhou PC-98 games

SoEW was a bit rough around the edges and hasn't aged very well compared to the others, in my opinion. But LLS and MS are excellent, fun, solid danmaku games, and both have moments and characters that I feel are "iconic" to the Touhou franchise. In general, I think the PC-98 games are definitely underappreciated and deserve more love, both from ZUN and the fanbase.

>>16479067
>can't understand why ZUN is somewhat reticent about them
they're VERY amateur projects he bumbled through without very much thought, then he rethought everything and tried again with more concrete ideas in mind

Also almost every creator looks back on their first works with a more critical eye than anyone else. Personally, I think the games are interesting from a historical perspective but not actually particularly good on their own. The only things I like about them objectively are the music, Yuuka, and Mima.

I thought LLS and MS were fun ,but not that much, i still think i prefer the Windows games more.

In terms of characters,i like Yumemi, Chiyuri and Yuuka, that's pretty much it.

>>16479067
Zun wants to move on and create new works but fans keep trying to drag him back to past games and characters.

>>16479413
Why did he keep Yuuka and Alice, then? Reimu and Marisa I can understand.

>>16479766
He said in a recent Touhou magazine skit where he talks about the boss battles in the series that throwing Alice in was an intentional misdirection to make players think PCB was going to involve PC-98 characters in some way (Specially since the demo stops at stage 3). So, basically he was trolling people who had played the PC-98 fans.

I recommend checking that skit out, it also includes commentary from the heroines on each of the bosses as well (With even a ten point-scale rating and everything) which makes for some pretty funny commentary.

whats the best emulator to use? I've been using anex86 because its the easiest to use. Also does anybody know where I can find this sound file for anex86. It's called aneopen44.e86 and I can't find it anywhere.

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I'm sad that there will never be another playable character with dialogue as great as Yuuka.

>>16481801
Anex is fucking shit. Use T98-Next

Though I like both of them, I find myself playing PoDD more often than PoFV. I guess it's because of the music, PoDD's soundtrack is really good.

>>16479067
Pretty much what >>16479101 said. These games are fucking good and deserve more love.

>>16481801
Use Neko Project

>>16483546
enjoy your invisible bullets

>>16481948
>dialogue as great as Yuuka
"muh powers to kill every1 lulz xd"
That was her dialogue

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>>16479067
I really loved the designs, especially the ones from Mystic Square.

>>16481801
Stop using Anex86 as soon as possible, there's a lot of imput delay in it and the audio quality is just awful.

Like >>16481983 switch to T98-Next, though you might need to edit a few settings here and there for the best experience.

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Did anyone else like Phantasmorgia of a Dim Dream? No one ever talks about it

>>16485126
It's the most forgotten game for a reason. I think the gameplay is pretty good but bombs were annoying as fuck. The cast is amazing though.

I can't believe no one has thought about making a fangame or a spiritual successor to HRtP. With some polish it could be very fun to play. The only one I know is some danmakufu script with the EoSD cast but I couldn't get it to work

>>16479766
I would guess because he just liked those characters and wanted to have fun with them again. Nobody's saying he hates everything about PC-98, the title screen theme has remained consistent forever and he's even referenced Shinki/Makai among many other callback references. But as much as fans love Mima, he probably doesn't feel much interest in the character, and especially doesn't feel any desire to dredge her or her story back up just to appease fans or expand on an overarching Touhou narrative.

>>16492968
There is actually a sorta similar game on Steam if you're interested. It does some things different like how you need a power-up to shoot projectiles and bricks are solid rather than passthrough, but it still is that sorta breakout/shmup hybrid with sliding and pang ball physics.

It's called Aliens Go Home Run. http://store.steampowered.com/app/514340/

>>16492968
oh yeah also two people previously made highly responsive to prayers fangames actually set in the touhou universe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW0JuhbhKl8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlgU3MhrML0

>>16493437
Mima would be quite easy to bring back though. Just say she has taught everything she knows to Marisa and call it a day. Plus, we would see Reimu being annoyed at Mima but forced to tolerate her because Marisa loves her.

>>16493580
holy shit this is actually awesome. you got yourself a new customer.

>>16493593
First one wasn't actually released, and second one is the danmakufu script I mentioned that I couldn't get to work.

>>16494638
what about that steam game, though?

>>16494656
I'll check it out, but one of the reasons I like HRtP apart from its gameplay is its art and music.

>>16494667
We got good grafix. We got the guy who did Highly Responsive to FM to do the music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npbN8VI2D1E

>>16493437
>the title screen theme has remained consistent forever
The title screen doesn't use Theme of Eastern Story until EoSD, although it's technically at least present in the PC-98 series.

>>16479413
I can die happy just with few cameos in the mangas at this point

>>16485126
quick and more agressive PoVF, I love it

>>16479067
HRtP and PoDD are messes.
SoEW is obviously rough and flawed, but fun
LLS and MS are solid shmups that are easily worth playing.

>>16493655
Why do so many people love Mima? She's a boring character.

What about other game

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>>16502023
WAH-HA! HA! HA! HA!

>>16493593
Oh yeah, JynX's remasters. They're rather entertaining to watch honestly, it's just too bad he'll never release them though.

>>16502800
anyone know how to run this game?? mine's keep getting weird screen.

>>16500668
Yes, it is absolutely crazy. The first 5 stages aren't boring like PoFV either.

>>16502933
D3D Windower

>>16479336
A lot of people do this, they evolve and feel like their previous works are garbage so they either forget about it or take them and make them something new, Araki Hirohiko did this with JoJo making part 7 to be a remake of part 1, basically Phantom Blood 2.0, ZUN used several characters from PC-98 and used them as base to make new characters.

>>16503004
took several characters from PC-98*
My bad

>>16485126
>Eeh, Ruukoto...
>what the fuck
>Where are your arms?
>``HA!''
>``Who needs arms''
>``When legs like these exist?!''

>>16503072
I just noticed it's an undertale refrence.

>>16503004
>ZUN used several characters from PC-98 and used them as base to make new characters.
Examples?

>>16503278
Most obvious one is Yumeko and Sakura

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>>16503282
>Sakura

>>16503411
not him but i guess Yumeko & Sakuya (obvious), both meido, one use badass swords one use knifes both very subservient to their respective masters.

>>16503278
To name a few.
In concepts. You have Yumeko/Sakuya, and Rika/Nitori.

Design-wise, you have:
Kotohime/Kaguya
Yuki/Marisa
Mai/Cirno/Remilia
Chiyuri/Flandre
Yumemi/Renko
Orange/Meiling
Meira/Yorihime

And this might be a stretch but Mima/Sanae (They share colors in both hair, clothing, share a pseudo-goddess motiff and have attacks and patterns related to stars).

>>16509688
>Yuki/Marisa

I'd say Ellen is more similar to Marisa

In fact, there's a lot of inspiration even within the PC-98 games themselves. Konngara -> Meira, Elis -> Kurumi, Sariel -> Matenshi FemShingyoku -> Orange.

I think the games and characters are nothing special, I mean they aren't bad but I'm not dying to see Kana or Kurumi showing up in new games.

The music being overlooked is what bothers me the most. Some of ZUN's best songs are in these games and barely anyone knows them.

>>16509688
>Chiyuri/Flandre
excuse me

>>16509775
Pretty sure he means the haircut.

>>16501858
she went to literally who to muh kill al humans to question about her existence to lying is fun, maybe isn't the best written 2hu but boring isn't

>>16509957
Eh secondarys just butt hurt because there's stuff they don't get.
>>16509756
Heratic

>>16509985
I still think it's a better idea to develop the characters we have now, instead of adding Mima.

I'd like em more if it weren't for the shitty sound lag and slightly-less-shitty-but-still-noticable-enough-to-be-annoying-in-later-stages input lag.
I don't know if my emulation is poorly set up or whatever, but these issues alone make it impossible for me to enjoy the older games.

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>>16509688
>>16509710
>>16509775
>>16509795
There are only so many haircuts in the world, and only so many color combinations.
The fact is, there is nothing in the PC98 games that could reasonably be said to inspire ZUN's later truly unique and original design. Think Satori/Koishi, Flan's wings, Mokou, Suwako, etc... not to mention the newhus and the circus show which is LoLK.

>>16511193
I think the earlier 2hus had a more monstrous feel to them.

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>>16511212
That's because Zun took a lot of inspiration in MegaTen.

>>16515118
From MegaTen*

>>16515118
>>16515120
Do you have anymore PC-98 fun facts?

I really wonder how ZUN got into this stuff in the first place

>>16481983
I've always used anex and i didnt had any problem.

>>16516700
anex is the znes of the PC-98 emulation

How does T98-Next work with the Touhou Launcher?
I have been (trying) to use Neko because it works well with it, but most of the games get horrible slowdowns once I start seeing more bullets on screen.

>>16516776
I've always used znes and i didnt had any problem.

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>>16515694
Here' another one. You can find the rest of the images in the omake of the PC-98 translation patch.
It also contains intructions on how to correctly setup emulators like T-98 and Neko Project.

I could post the rest myself or upload the omake in a .rar but I am too lazy.

did zun actually make any money of touhou?

>>16519716
He sells physical copies of his games in Japan and currently has a deal with Sony.

What do you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZM62RkuywM

>>16519566
Whoa. Touhou feels so original. It's a surprise to see just how derivative it is.

>>16519716
>>16519734
also books, which are more directly profitable

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>>16515694
Thank you, now I know where to look!

>>16519734
not really then. ive purchased his games and books but i cant see how he would make much off them

>>16519754
not really, basically everything in touhou is just a conglomerate of stolen ideas

>>16519866
>ive purchased his games and books but i cant see how he would make much off them
Selling even 5000 copies of a game at an event for 1000円 each is already 5000000円. He'll generally attend at least one Reitaisai and Comiket per year and completely sell out at each one. That's just sales at events alone.

>>16519754
not for nothing is a doujin "franchise" anon, keep in mind why also ZUN make their copyright very light

>>16519992
manufacturing cost and time as well as transport fees, comiket fees etc.

by money i mean yes he makes money but it wouldn't be more than an average salary or so.

>>16520129
*his, and its because he cant copyright some of the stuff anyway

>>16520204
Dude the question was "did zun actually make any money of touhou", not "does he have a personal yacht". By all indications he makes well above and beyond an average programmer salary even after various production costs (material/printing costs likely being the only significant factor there at that scale). The 5000 number was already an underestimate considering he sold 10000 copies of Double Spoiler on release day years ago. Besides event sales, there's constantly sales from doujin shops, plus he writes several manga, and has ties to various other deals.

Even then, if he wanted to just make a shitton of money off the series by pumping out a bunch of new works he feasibly could, but he's content with this lifestyle. So what were you even asking?

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>>16516787

>>16519566
I always thought Ellen's theme sounded like a magical girl's anime OP.

>>16519566
Thanks - I've heard about the references, but nobody ever remembers the names.

>>16520129
I think it turned out for the best that he could only loosely copyright the series. It gives the community more collective ownership to pursue fan games, art and music.

>>16520129
>>16523585
ZUN has full license over Touhou as it stands. Even all the PC98 stuff where he went full doujin with references is still his making, it's just similar to when anime does stuff like mentioning Pkmon or whatever. Touhou is still an original work; it isn't "intrinsically" doujin by means of being derivative material, it's just how the series was built and ZUN has kept it like that because of his desire to keep the doujin identity of the series and foster creation of derivative works.

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Just downloaded T98-Next after using Anex for years. Holy shit the difference is like night and day.

On topic, I've always had a soft spot for PoDD. Its soundtrack is probably my favorite of the PC-98 era

>>16523667
Doujin just means indie, which Touhou has...MOSTLY been (I believe ULiL marks the first legit published Touhou work, not counting licensed fangames)

>>16529482
>Doujin just means indie,
Not true. Doujin is basically doing stuff in your free time. Indie means, or meant, that you're independent from publishers. It's similar but not same.

>>16529899
>Not true
It IS true, though. It always refers to self-published things. Do you know what "self-published" means?

>>16529899
I think the main difference is that doujin are mostly derivative works, while most indie projects are original creations.

>>16532547
That happens to be the case, but only because coming up with derivative work is much easier than producing original work. That's a trait, not a part of the definition.

I actually don't know the difference. I primarily associate doujin with doujin distribution channels and the fact that it is by nature "hobby" rather than "professional" but I don't know which of these make it into the definition.

>>16520785
why'd you use touhou launcher

>>16532651
Because it's nice.
I like having all the touhou games in one launcher and it looks good too