2hu Plot Hole

Read the written works to answer your question.

>>16164201
As >>16164216 said, the answer is incredibly obvious if you pay any sort of attention to printed works or canon in general.

Here's an actual plot hole.
Why was Byakuren following spell card rules, where did she get her spell cards, and how did she even know what spell cards were? Her imprisonment pre-dates the spell card rules by centuries, and the only way I could think of to explain her use of them is if she had some sort of contact with someone outside of her confinement. What makes this worse is that fact that your character is the one that frees her, so it's not like she was able to interact with anyone before you show up.
Shinki is the only one that comes to mind in that case, being the god that created Makai, and that would explain why Byakuren uses a spell card that reflects one of Shinki's own attacks. However, this explaination only works if you make several assumptions, such as Shinki knowing about spell card rules in the first place, caring enough to get in contact with some magician that was sealed in her world, and that PC98 is even canon to Windows in the first place.

Miko and Futo present similar issues, though they actually have a small time frame after reviving where they could have reasonably learned about spell card rules, so they aren't as bad in that regard.

>>16166616
If she copied Shinki's attack, Byakuren does indeed know her.
Shinki probably told her "I'm using a modified version of my attack that follows these 'spellcard rules' some human created just after she beat me." or something and Byakuren thought "Seems like an effective method, might as well craft some of these spellcard things while I'm trapped here". Most plausible scenario I can think of.
Byakuren couldn't have copied them through an inspection of Gensokyo itself, since she didn't know humans were still exterminating youkai until Sanae arrived.

>>16166616
The only explanation to why suddenly Byakuren, Miko, Sumireko or etc have spellcards when they're awakening/unsealed/appearing hot on the plate in Gensokyo is when I think back to SSiB.
Reimu and Marisa explain Spellcard rules to Yorihime before they duel.

The best you can get is that Reimu and the others just do some off screen Spell card explanations to newcomers shortly before the battle starts so as not to interrupt the gameplay.

>>16167144
>Sumireko
Considering how much time she had to set up her incident, it wouldn't shock me to discover that she knew of the spell card rules, at the very least.
However, she doesn't seem to fully understand them, as she still fears for her life during ULiL.

>>16167144
This. The games leave out a lot of stuff, like how the characters get from one stage to the next (or why they decided to go there in the first place). Or how the written works often describe multiple characters teaming up to resolve incidents.

>>16167232
It's possible that Sumireko didn't know anything about the spell card rules until after the incident.

Remember that in most of Sumireko's fights either she or her opponent is an astral projection, which seems to make it difficult or impossible to kill them. When Sumireko finally has to fight people in the flesh, she freaks out and thinks she's going to die.

Because spellcard rules don't apply outside of spellcard duels. As evidenced by flandre blowing up the meteor, Keine re-writing the human village out of existance, Kaguya wrapping Gensokyo into an eternal loop, and other plot-breaking superpowers that could nuke the realm to hell and back. Jesus Christ you should be able to solve this /jp/.

>>16167350
Let's not forget that spellcard rules did not exist at the time of Mystic Square, which results in an angry Shinki obliterating a huge chunk of Makai while trying to smash a certain shrine maiden.

>>16167402
>a certain shrine maiden
Well, who was it? Don't keep us waiting, anon.

>>16167410
Clearly it was Sanae.

>>16167350
>Kaguya wrapping Gensokyo into an eternal loop
She only did that with her household before IN happened, unless I'm forgetting something.
Also, I don't think you understood OP's question. Or maybe I didn't. OP didn't word his question very well, and I'm positive that he's using the word "ontologically" incorrectly.

>>16167270
>The games leave out a lot of stuff, like how the characters get from one stage to the next
That doesn't really need explaining, though, and it's safe to always assume that it's "on the way" to where they're going, with a few exceptions that are explained away in game or elsewhere, such as Ten Desires and Double Dealing Character.

>Or how the written works often describe multiple characters teaming up to resolve incidents.
You'll have to point that out, because I don't believe it's ever explicitly stated that they team up.

>Remember that in most of Sumireko's fights either she or her opponent is an astral projection, which seems to make it difficult or impossible to kill them.
That would really have nothing to do with both parties using spell cards, though, and if I'm not mistaken Sumireko is shown using spell cards at the very least.

>>16164201

Reimu can just go into Fantasy Heaven mode and pull off Okuu's limbs like a particularly wicked child does to an insect. This is all a game to her.

>>16167437
I'm not sure that's real, Anon

>>16167425

>She only did that with her household

The entire premise of Imperishable Night is investigating the imperishable night Kaguya created over Gensokyo

I understood OP's post perfectly.

Yes, OP misused ontologically. A better word he could have used is "ubiquitously".

>>16167467
>The entire premise of Imperishable Night is investigating the imperishable night Kaguya created over Gensokyo

I think you misunderstood Imperishable Night's plot.

Someone has corrupted the moon over Gensokyo, and this is causing adverse affects in youkai. As a result, Yukari/Alice/Remilia/Yuyuko all team up with their various human partners (which they mostly do because it's a human's job to resolve incidents) to figure out why this is happening. In order to give themselves more time to resolve this incident, each team use their powers to extend the night (for Team Border and Team Scarlet this is explained as being Yukari's and Sakuya's work respectively, while Team Magic and Team Ghost never get an explanation) That's why the whole time mechanic exists, and why the game uses time to determine continues. That's even why you get attacked by Reimu/Marisa in Stage 4, because you started an incident by freezing the night. Hell, the conclusion of your fight with Kaguya is her undoing the damage that you did by freezing the night, which is why the number of attacks she performs depends on how much time you have remaining.

And aside from that, Kaguya wasn't even responsible for the moon's state, that was Eirin's doing. Kaguya's power, if I'm not mistaken however, was responsible for Eientei remaining hidden until the events of IN.

>>16167437
Actually, Reimu's Fantasy Heaven is the reason the spell card system actually exists. After the near-complete destruction of Makai, the slaughter of at least one deity and dozens of youkai and an interdimensional samurai, I think pretty much everybody could agree that there's no real point in slugging it out with Reimu. Getting into a magical battle with her is like getting into a hand grenade fight in a broom closet.

>>16167490

You're right, I did misunderstand IN's plot

>>16167496
>Actually, Reimu's Fantasy Heaven is the reason the spell card system actually exists. After the near-complete destruction of Makai, the slaughter of at least one deity and dozens of youkai and an interdimensional samurai, I think pretty much everybody could agree that there's no real point in slugging it out with Reimu. Getting into a magical battle with her is like getting into a hand grenade fight in a broom closet.
That's mostly wrong, though. The spell card system was prompted by the fallout of the unseen "Vampire Incident". Actually, part of the reason these rules came into being was because various youkai felt that they couldn't go all out against Reimu, as her death would result in Gensokyo's destruction. Spell Card rules gave them a way of besting Reimu without jeopardizing their home.

That said, yes Fantasy Heaven could trump pretty much anything in Gensokyo, presumably.

>>16167496
>Reimu's Fantasy Heaven is the reason the spell card system actually exists.
Could you provide a source for that? Because PMiSS and Strange Creators of Outer World say the spell card rules were implemented in order to ensure the safety of Hakurei shrine maidens and to stop Remilia's power trip. Never understood why people wank Fantasy Heaven so much.

>>16167575
>people wank Fantasy Heaven so much.
I think it's a /jp/ circlejerk thing, nowhere does it state that Fantasy Heaven is that strong people here make it appear.

This thread is gay, but goddamn if that isn't a magnificent loli ass.

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>>16167575
>>16167610

>>16167614
>loli
Check the chest again, anon.

>>16167615
Just like many other touhou powers that can end fights before they even begin.

>>16167648
Honestly, that list is rather small.

-Reimu
-Flandre
-Yuyuko (with a few exceptions)
-Sakuya and Yukari if you ignore how her power is shown as working and really fan wank it
-Eiki
-The Dragon God I guess

>>16167490
I thought I heard someone say previously that Sakuya couldn't control anyone else's time, only her own, and in limited fashions? If so, slowing down the time of the night would be impossible for her.

What would be possible, however, is for Remilia to piggyback on her while she slows down her own time, using it as a way to greatly decrease the travel time between destinations. I'd imagine this could have complications, though, such as causing Remi to lose consciousness or something through the sudden absurd increase in acceleration, causing most of the blood in her body to rush to a certain point, etc. In fact the sudden acceleration could cause so much pressure that it could actually be dangerous. Maybe even though she's a youkai.

>>16167624
What kind of malefic individual puts boobs on Remilia?

>>16167610
Wait, I don't know because I don't know the lore regarding Makai but >>16167496 seems to imply that Fantasy Heaven was what killed all those people. If that's true, then canonically Fantasy Heaven would be pretty terrifying power at the least.

>>16167683
I think it was just explained that Sakuya can't pull other people into stopped time, not that she distort the passage of time for everyone.

It was kind of ambiguous, how she worded it.

>>16167706
Nah, that anon was just talking about what Reimu accomplished in PC98 in general. Reimu couldn't even use Fantasy Heaven in PC98, as that power relies on an ability that she didn't gain until EoSD. Regardless, Fantasy Heaven on its own has no destructive capabilities, it just makes Reimu untouchable while allowing her to continue attacking.

That said, Reimu didn't actually destroy Makai, and in fact during PC98 the only casualty was maybe Orange if you take Reimu's dialogue absolutely seriously, which would be stupid as doing that also means that Sakuya died during EoSD. And even aside from that, one of Marisa's endings in LLS makes it official that Reimu has a way of sealing youkai without killing them, meaning that actually killing Orange simply wouldn't make sense.

>>16164201
And? It worked, didn't it? Okuu's superpowers weren't plot breaking, because otherwise the plot would be broken. Thanks, spell card rules!

>>16167667
You could probably add Remi to that list, if her ability does what it says it does.
>-Eiki
Usually I don't pay attention to powerlevel arguments, but what can she do besides sorting souls between Hell, Heaven and Netherworld, and lecturing the living about good and bad?
>-Sakuya and Yukari if you ignore how her power is shown as working and really fan wank it
Uh, explain this?

>>16167733
Oh okay. That's kind of bizarre given that 12.3's Fantasy Heaven, when activated, basically makes Reimu go into fuck you mode and spew out a giant clusterfuck of bullets.

>>16167795
I've heard people claim that Eiki can inflict any sort of punishment, though I must confess I'm not positive that this is canon.
Yukarifags will claim that her power can do anything, thanks to the no limits fallacy, and I've heard similar things about Sakuya being able to kill anyone in stopped time.

>>16167802
Well, Fantasy Heaven is basically a "I win" button in canon, so I suppose the way it works in 12.3 is meant to reflect that mechanically.
Or Tasofro got lazy.

>>16167683
>I thought I heard someone say previously that Sakuya couldn't control anyone else's time, only her own, and in limited fashions? If so, slowing down the time of the night would be impossible for her.

Taking past displays into account, it looks like Sakuya can only speed things up, not slow them down. She can use this power on herself so that everyone else seems frozen, or on flowers to make them bloom instantly.

She may or may not have space-warping abilities, but if she does then they don't seem to have any combat applications other than possibly flight.

>>16167144
>The best you can get is that Reimu and the others just do some off screen Spell card explanations to newcomers shortly before the battle starts so as not to interrupt the gameplay.
I always assumed this was what was going on. The rules are explained and everyone accepts because reasons, duel start.

>>16167496
>>16167610
>All these people calling it "Fantasy Heaven"
It's Fantasy Nature. As in, it's Reimu's true nature, not a learned skill.
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/The_Grimoire_of_Marisa/Reimu_Hakurei%27s_Spell_Cards

>>16167706
Makai and "all those people" are from the PC-98 games. The PC-98 games did not have lore. ZUN said back then that Touhou was not a series and did not have a continuity between games; he was just reusing Reimu and Marisa because they'd become mascots of his work.

Fantasy Nature, spell card rules, and even Gensokyo did not exist until the Windows games, when ZUN decided to make a fresh start and begin doing actual worldbuilding and ongoing plots. Very little from the PC-98 era has been referenced since. Even Reimu's appearance and the spelling of her name were changed.

>>16167851
>I've heard people claim that Eiki can inflict any sort of punishment, though I must confess I'm not positive that this is canon.
Yeah, the only punishment I can recall is beating the judged souls with the Rod of Remorse.
>Yukarifags will claim that her power can do anything, thanks to the no limits fallacy
Don't know about that, but ZUN did say it can 'affect anything' in her article in SCOoW, aside from in-universe sources.
>and I've heard similar things about Sakuya being able to kill anyone in stopped time.
Outside of the rules, Sakuya probably could easily shank a human motherfucker to death. Not sure about youkai, though, as they can apparently regenerate even after being cut to pieces if the attack isn't spirit-based.

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>>16168064
I... I... I still have to believe.... Someday...

;_;

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>>16168091
>SCOoW
I meant SCoOW.

>>16167913
I see you fell for the "misunderstanding Sakuya's words" meme.
Anyway, here's a list of things that she is stated as having, according to narration and creator comments.

Time Slowing
Stopping Knives midair with Time Manipulation
"Time Acceleration"
Teleportation
Access to Parallel Universes via "Folding Time"
Stopping Time
Localized time suspension
Creating pocket space via Time Manipulation (this is why the SDM is larger on the inside than it is on the outside)

Her comment in WaHH is just a way to explain to Reimu why she can't "pull" other people into stopped time, and is a possible explanation as to why she couldn't, say, stop time and shank people to death. Though, she does have some degree of control over the environment during stopped time, as evidenced by the fact that she can pick up knives and clean the SDM in stopped time.

>>16168091
Yukari can potentially affect anything, yes, but she has shown limits before, such as being unable to reach the true moon outside of specific circumstances.
And as for Sakuya, see the above response.

>>16168064
Even in PC-98, Touhou had some continuity. Though, I will confess, 1-3 are kind of oddballs in that regard. 5, however, takes some elements from 4, and both 4 and 5 are referenced in the windows games proper.

>>16168150
SoEW does reference HrtP: Reimu recognizes Mima. And in PoDD, Marisa is still shown as a sort of apprentice of Mima, just as she was her henchwoman in SoEW.

>>16168150
>Time Slowing
>Stopping Knives midair with Time Manipulation
>"Time Acceleration"
>Teleportation
>Access to Parallel Universes via "Folding Time"
Stopping Time
>Localized time suspension
>Creating pocket space via Time Manipulation (this is why the SDM is larger on the inside than it is on the outside)
Sprites and gameplay from the fighting games are non-canon unless confirmed by another source. Tasofro decides on what abilities the characters should have, and then ZUN writes the fluff for them. He does veto things sometimes (like refusing to give Aya an attack that summons Momiji), but there's a lot of compromise and back-and-forth (ZUN says that Tasofro's Patchouli sprites are inaccurate, that he was against the ULiL port, and that Meiling wasn't going to be in IaMP until he found out that they'd already made the assets while he wasn't looking).

Sakuya's teleportation is explicitly just her moving while time is stopped. SSiB makes this very clear.

"Time Slowing", "Time Acceleration", "Stopping Time" and "Stopping Knives midair" are just different applications of speeding things up. She slows/stops time by accelerating herself, and her knives appear to slow/stop because they're leaving her field of acceleration.

>>16170307
>Patchouli sprites are inaccurate
A claim like that needs a source, anon.

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>>16171312
Her dress isn't supposed to have pink and purple stripes, it just looked like that in EoSD because of the lighting. Her SWR portrait and HM sprite corrected this, but other official artists have kept drawing her with stripes anyway, and ZUN hasn't bothered correcting them.

It's been mentioned in an interview or two, but the only place I can find right now is
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Immaterial_and_Missing_Power_OST/Alphes%27_Comments
>"Patchouli doesn't have any stripes dude"
>"The only one that thinks Patchouli doesn't have any stripes is ZUN"

>>16171414
Are you implying that Patchouli is incapable of changing robes?
Anyway, stripes on a robe is one thing, descriptions written for attacks are another thing entirely.
Also, you never bothered to explain her ability to access other timelines or her ability to warp space via time manipulation, both abilities explicitly in the mainline games.

>>16167683
The actual answer to this is simply that ZUN didn't think it out. Even by BAiJR he established that Sakuya would not have been able to stop the night, and he's remained consistent in the applications of her ability since.

>>16170307
>Tasofro's Patchouli sprites are inaccurate
Design differences in official works doesn't really mean "non-canon" because they often don't mean anything anyways. Unless you can take some artistic thing to imply something important like Marisa having a telescope. ZUN saying Patchouli doesn't have stripes is just the same as Murasa having a skirt instead of pants; how ZUN drew it and how it was perceived. Doesn't mean it's wrong.

>against the ULiL port
Against just a straight port because that's boring and a waste of effort, not the aspect of a port itself.

>>16167575
>>16167610
Fantasy Nature (or Fantasy Heaven) is broken is why,

You know when kids are playing around and they say "INVINCIBLE SHIELD, YOU CAN'T BEAT ME"? That's what the move is. It's an explanation as to why, ultimately Reimu could beat anyone as long as she kept at it.

Ability to destroy anything? Fantasy Nature. Ability to kill anything? Fantasy Nature. It's busted

>>16168064
>Makai and "all those people" are from the PC-98 games. The PC-98 games did not have lore. ZUN said back then that Touhou was not a series and did not have a continuity between games; he was just reusing Reimu and Marisa because they'd become mascots of his work.
this, though there's a little bit of "continuity" in the last few

There's a weird attempt by some folks to try to connect PC-98 to Windows. In a few ways it works, in a lot of ways it doesn't, which is probably why the creator himself, ZUN, has long downplayed if not outright dismissed the earlier entries in canon..

>>16171414
That drunk crazyass also said Murasa doesn't wear shorts; she wears a skirt.

He's out of his gourd!

>>16173346
>Ability to destroy anything? Fantasy Nature. Ability to kill anything? Fantasy Nature. It's busted
Why do you think that's how it functions? All that can be ascertained from >>16167615 is that it would make her unbeatable in danmaku battles if it didn't have a time limit, because bullets and other stuff simply wouldn't be able to hit her, hence 'invincible'. Nowhere does it say it also makes her immune to metaphysical bullshit powers, unless you have a source I'm not aware of?

>>16173346
>It's busted
People like you spamming this assertion everywhere even outside dumb powerlevel threads is the only reason people care. There is absolutely nothing out of the ordinary about the thing in the series itself. Reimu's whole existence is having broken natural talents and that technique is an extreme showoff case, that's it. Has Reimu ever used this ability to solve problems? No. Is there any indication that she ever would? No. People obsessing over the "possible" is the whole reason these sorts of discussions are so garbage.

>>16173453
I think there may be a bit of a difference between what might happen canonically with what Reimu might do, and what the player, playing the game, does and can do.

Obviously ZUN wouldn't put Fantasy Heaven in any of the games because that would be a dumb "I win" button. So, of course, the player can't use it. It doesn't mean Reimu herself, in the world canonically, might not use it.

I'm not saying that she necessarily -has- used it, just that she probably would if she really needed it. If she canonically hasn't, then it's simply a testament to her skill that she hasn't needed to. If she were in any real danger of losing, then I doubt she would hesitate to use it. Her job is too important for her to lose any conflicts.

Didn't Reimu lose like four times? Why are people still posting Fanatsy Nature like an absolute argument?

>>16174412
Spell Card rules.

>>16174460
Ah, yeah. But still, FN is only defence mechanism. Let's hypothetically say that, Heca or Watatsuki sisters decide to nuke Gensokyo for whatever reason. How is Reimu going stop to them?

>>16174354
You mistake what I mean by "would". It's fundamentally not part of Touhou as a series for such an option to ever be considered; its existence is entirely just to show off potential and further expanding on the scope of Reimu's natural talents. Having the Spell Card Rules exist as a thing is just a device the series uses to help support the fact that serious conflict involving maximal use of power does not occur. It isn't actually "they could occur but the rules prevent them from occurring and if they were circumvented shit would go down", despite the narrative poking at it with things like the Vampire Incident pre-rules.

>>16164201
That's not a plot hole, THIS is a plot hole.

>it's revealed that the whole "yo let's invade gensokyo" thing was a giant ploy by the Lunarians to get Eirin-senpai to notice them and send help
>there's no way she would have noticed the Occult Balls and indeed she didn't, meaning they were THIS close to actually relocating the capital to Gensokyo had Reimu not caught up to Sumireko in time
>nobody points this out to them

>>16173436
She literally floats away from reality during it, since that's her "innate ability" (to float). I thought it was easy to assume "technically not existing" would make you immune to things in existence.

>>16173453
I'm not obsessing over it, it's just an aspect about her. I don't know why this upsets you.

>>16178046
Occult Balls were Sagumin's plan C. Plan B was what happened in LoLK's prologue (and it was that which meant to grab Eirin's attention, not the Occult Balls). Her plan A was to wait things out (which stretched to 3 months of siege).

As for why she sowed the Occult Balls beforehand - contingency. Had plan B failed as well, there would be no way for Sagumin to pull off the final contingency. Nobody was supposed to find them in the first place.

>>16182945
Not necessarily. Gensokyo is covered by a barrier that separates fantasy and reality. It technically doesn't exist, yet it's not immune to the "real" world's influence.

>>16182945
>I'm not obsessing over it, it's just an aspect about her. I don't know why this upsets you.
It's one aspect that is ultimately not that important in the series, but because it's "broken", it receives a disproportionate amount of attention, to the point where people think it's a big deal. Like earlier anon said, people wank it for no good reason. It isn't just about specifically you mentioning it, but if you're the same one claiming the spell card rules were invented "because of it" then it's shit like this that's problematic. Obsession over what's "possible" in the universe leads to people making stuff up and not focusing on what actually makes sense.

It's also entirely your assumption that Reimu would be absolutely unbeatable anyways. Your extrapolations aren't warranted, as >>16173436 points out. Her powers may be bullshit but you're granting it more bullshit than has been shown to be true.

>>16184686
>It's also entirely your assumption that Reimu would be absolutely unbeatable anyways
Not him but it is not >>16167615

>>16170307
>Sakuya's teleportation is explicitly just her moving while time is stopped. SSiB makes this very clear.
Pretty sure Sakuya is able to teleport even while using her Time Stop spellcard in the fighting game, meaning that she can effectively teleport without using time abilities.

>>16164201
>thumbnail looks like it's one of those "sperm fertilizing an egg cell" image insets

fertilization danmaku game when

>>16171414
We see Touhou Girls wearing different outfits all the time in the Mangas. I mean just look at Marisa and Reimu's outfits in just Forbidden Scrollery wearing different outfits in pretty much every other issue.

Unless Patchouli's has a closet full of identical outfits she'd have to have some variants.

>>16184771
Again, see >>16173436 I guess. Why can't you hit her? Because she's become intangible and nothing can get to her, so she's effectively invincible. Why would you not be able to win against her? Because nothing can hit her. Some things left unsaid could be easily argued for, but you can't reasonably take it to imply that it is absolutely unbeatable in any way (i.e. "also no special powers work on her"), because that hasn't been shown. In GoM the phrasing is also more of "you stand no chance", which is a much more reasonable thing to say.

If the argument really depends on the words "from reality", know that the original text says ありとあらゆるもの / "from everything" (whatever it's supposed to mean) rather than explicitly "reality" or whatever. It's a lot more ambiguous and poorly defined than people are making it sound. "Intangibility" is the known extent.

>>16184829
separation of gameplay is a thing, basically

>>16184686
>>16185626
In CoLA there's a scene where Marisa gets annoyed at Reimu for dodging her bullets. Reimu is confused - she says she didn't do anything, just stood still as Marisa's bullets curved around her.

In Sangetsusei there's a scene where the fairies use illusions to trick Reimu into walking into a river. Reimu doesn't notice, because fish rise up to form a bridge under her feet.

In Phantasmagoria of Flower View, Reimu's motto is "Go With the Flow".

Multiple characters have compared Reimu to a Taoist hermit, because she's so naturally at one with her surroundings. Others have noted that she's an extremely honest person, who's pure of heart but wears her emotions on her sleeve. This is something called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_wei - the principle behind martial arts like Tai Chi, where a tiny amount of force can be overwhelmingly powerful if it's applied in the right way.
>"The green reed which bends in the wind is stronger than the mighty oak which breaks in the storm" -Confucius

Fantasy Nature isn't anything special for Reimu, it's just her closing her eyes and listening to her instincts more. A lot of her most powerful spell cards are similarly instinct-based.

>>16167615
So, just like any other survival card?

>>16185723
R E I M U S U E
E
I
M
U

S
U
E

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>>16185723
>>16193003
Except that the other side of Reimu's "unique perspective" is that she's basically autistic - she can't understand how other people think, nor is she good at explaining her own thoughts to others, and she starts screwing up whenever she's distracted because it means she's not listening to her instincts.

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>>16193478
That is, Naruto Uzumaki could probably defeat Fantasy Nature mode Reimu if he used jutsu related.

>>16193478
Oh. OH!
So that's why, to beat her, you have to make her go on tilt! If she gets mad enough, she can't depend on her instincts, because she'll be too preoccupied with her anger.

Like the games, you have to make her rage quit.

>>16193478
Cyuuuuuute, golly Reimu's too mœ

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>>16193533
Basically, yeah.

Just don't try to make her mad by killing humans or something like that. If she thinks you're truly irredeemable and the only way to stop you is killing you, then it will actually take a weight off her shoulders and make her mind clearer than before.

>>16164201
I want Remi's hole on my face.