Was she stronger than Kaguya?

Kaguya is immortal and has some kind of time manipulation powers while Kaguya is immortal and erm... smart.

She has a bow, people who use bows are pretty strong, can the kuso princess wield a bow? I don't think so.

Yukari is stronger than both of them.

>>16000302
what the fuck does "strong" even mean? how much she can bench-press?

>>16000384
ten thousand pounds, and that's just the consultation fee.

>>16000302
Read official profile.

>>16000302
It was explicitely stated to be so, yes.
She sealed the entire earth for god's sake.

Her profile says that she's much, much stronger than Kaguya. Kaguya just has eternity power. Reimu and Marisa also note that she seemed stronger than Kaguya in those character profile things that were released a while back.

I'm not sure why Kaguya tries to "save" her and donates her power to her in 6A though.

>>16000302
I don't think that power levels can be applied to Touhou in the same way as DBZ but if anything Eirin had more power (or at least full control of her potential unlike Kaguya).

She has bigger boobs, so yes.
>>16000355
Go back to bed, Yukari.

>>16001970
>>16000344
You guys seriously shouldn't use a character's ability to determine their powerlevel, Hecatia would be a prime example here.

>I'm not sure why Kaguya tries to "save" her and donates her power to her in 6A though.
As Eirin was stated to be more powerful, she also doesn't show it out of respect for Kaguya, you could infer Eirin was acting like a pushover so she could keep that facade up.

>>16001970
>Reimu and Marisa also note that she seemed stronger than Kaguya in those character profile things that were released a while back.
Wasn't that just a joke about how gameplaywise Eirin is harder than Kaguya?

>>16001970
>>16002101
>>16002272
Note that you fail to stop Eirin's plans in IN. She's already succeeded by the time you set out, and the night being stopped just makes it so it's a big stalemate until Kaguya breaks the spell. Eirin and Kaguya just play around with you until dawn.

eirin is the most underrated high powerlevel 2hu bc she's modest

>>16001979
>I don't think that power levels can be applied to Touhou
Wrong. In Silent Sinner in Blue Reimu, Sakuya, Remilia, and Yukari got bested by the Watatsuki sisters who are both students of Eirin. The aforementioned sisters are like a fraction of Eirin's age and it is implied that they only have a fraction of Eirin's knowledge and abilities. Eirin used her knowledge to make Kaguya immortal and it is subtly implied that she is also immortal. I'm a Yukari fanboy but I doubt there's anyone in the Touhouverse who is stronger than Eirin.

Yukari said that she was no match for Eiki Shiki. In theory, Yukari's ability to manipulate boundaries makes her one of the strongest characters in fiction, but in practice, she's not nearly as strong as her fans wished she was. If you really did have the power to manipulate any boundary then you could in theory manipulate the boundaries between victory & defeat and never lose. ZUN probably doesn't realize the implications of being able to manipulate boundaries. He doesn't realize how powerful such an ability is. Or maybe he forgot.
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Yukari_Yakumo

With all of that said, the Watatsuki sisters are mary sues. SSiB had really bad writing. It was like seeing a shitty filler season of a shonen jump fight anime -- where a new character is introduced and easily manages to beat the main characters. She beat Reimu with only using 1% of her god hax. Didn't she have the ability to channel the power of over a 1000 gods or some corny shit like that.

>>16002358
Unfortunately their entire plan was pointless in the first place since Gensokyo is protected by the Barrier

Reminder that Eirin had the opportunity to kill Patchouli and didn't do it. F*ck.

>>16002358
>She's already succeeded by the time you set out.
That's only true in the neutral ending, where it's explicitly shown that the moon is still fucked. The incident is resolved in final B.

>>16002414
You're not entirely wrong, but I would like to point out that the hourai elixir required both Eirin and Kaguya to make.
And there's no reason to assume that Eirin is still stronger than the Watatsuki sisters.

>>16002414
>Yukari said that she was no match for Eiki Shiki
Can someone explain to me how that one line turned into a powerlevel argument if she didn't say anything about power or strength? I thought it meant that arguing with her is pointless?
After reading Eiki's profile in PMiSS, I got the impression that youkai avoid her because they don't want to deal with her preachy attitude, not because they're afraid of her power or something.

>>16002489
A line in an official short story where Yukari said that even herself, Reimu, and Yuyuko together wouldn't be able to handle Eiki.

>>16002485
>there's no reason to assume that Eirin is still stronger than the Watatsuki sisters.
Eirin is there teacher and is several millenniums older than them. Why wouldn't they be weaker than her? Eirin is an important founder of the Lunarian society.

>>16002414
>If you really did have the power to manipulate any boundary then you could in theory manipulate the boundaries between victory & defeat and never lose. ZUN probably doesn't realize the implications of being able to manipulate boundaries.
This only applies if you assume all 2hus are some kind of level 6 espers. This is not how it works.

>>16002530
Tewi is arguably the oldest youkai in the series, but you would be a fool to compare her to, say, Flandre.
And she was their teacher, she isn't currently their teacher.

>>16002497
I read A Beautiful Flower Blooming Violet Every Sixty Years, but why do people assume she was referring to power or fighting? It just sounds terribly out of context to me.

>>16002542
It's ambigious, likely intentionally so.
That said, I love the idea that Eiki could curbstomp Yukari, so I'm fine with it.

>>16002539
I wasn't aware that Tewi and Flan were the same kind of youkai.

>>16002549
I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree.

>>16002556
Yeah, Tewi and Flandre have different innate powers and abilities.
Just like how Eirin has a different skill set and powers than the Watatsukis.

File: 8e49c2a52e535fe6f1f9139a61a5f80d.jpg (964KB, 3200x2000px) Image search: [Google]

964KB, 3200x2000px

What about Kanako and Suwako?
Didn't they run to Gensokyo because they were so weakened they were about to disappear? Kanako as last boss of Mountain of Faith was dying, they weren't not even a shadow of what they used to be.

>>16002598
Yes and no.
Yes, they were running out of faith in the outside world.
No, there's no reason to assume that they weren't revitalized when they were in Gensokyo.

>>16002452
Eirin's plan wasn't to fuck the moon forever, she just wanted travel from the Moon to the Earth sealed until dawn. She says so in Kaguya's profile, every A route, and notes in Scarlet route that once day breaks the emissaries can't come anymore, so it never made sense to keep the Earth sealed any further. Additionally, in the Normal endings it says the full moon has returned, but doesn't change. I'm fairly confident the main difference between A and B endings is that since you're lured into the fake path in A, Eirin returns the fake full moon. In the B route, you find the true full moon.

>>16002424
In modern canon that isn't quite true, and it's more that it was a fabricated rabbit rumor and nobody was actually coming for them in the first place. If any lunar emissaries came from outside the Barrier they likely wouldn't be able to get in, but as we see in everything later, people can travel both ways just fine. Gensokyo is well-tied to the Capital by virtue of both being fantastical.

ZUN kind of had to make that Barrier reasoning meaningless in order for the later moon stories to make any sense.

>>16002875
>but as we see in everything later, people can travel both ways just fine
*Travel between Gensokyo and the Far side, that is

>>16002538
Yeah, I mean.

I have the ability to punch. Doesn't mean I can break walls down with my fist.

>>16001979
I think so as well.

By nature of the inhabitants of Gensokyo being so widely varied, non-spell card related combat would end up being asymmetrical, and you'd have to judge every fight on a case to case basis. Yuyuko can will death on things but what happens if her target isn't capable of dying? What if Reimu invokes Fantasy Nature?

On the wiki there are 183 character pages, apparently. I guess if you went through the 183 factorial combinations of 1 on 1 fights, whoever would win the most battles would be the strongest, but that number is so high I don't think my calculator would even work on it.

It's all really kinda ugly and not a discussion relevant for a land that solves most issues with the spell card system.

Speaking of which, I had a though the other day. What if most of the gameplay differences between games could be explained as the spell-card rules constantly being revised?

>>16010576
I wish characters weren't broken so spellcards rules won't exist, I hate when characters have to be constantly holding themselves back.

>>16011712
Uh then drop Touhou from your life because that shit's the whooooooole point. All of it.

>>16002497
Isn't yuyuko the pure one though, how can eiki's power work on her?

>>16002497
They can't "beat" Eiki because none of them are eternal, and Eiki IS, sooner or later, going to judge them. It's only a matter of time, and they can't escape it.

>>16013147
While that's arguably part of what the "can't oppose" line means, you don't even need to go that far. It doesn't make sense for them to fight in the first place. Yukari just doesn't want to deal with being around her because she's annoying and always right. The use of terms like retreat/退却 without actually fighting evokes that talking to Eiki in itself is like a battle and too troublesome to bother with.

>>16011712
I think it's actually really interesting because it creates an environment where subterfuge and manipulation become the main way to get things done rather than profound amounts of raw force.

It's a lot like a spell card battle in that elegance and wit are emphasized rather than outright strength.

This is more expressed in the bits of media that aren't part of the games, I think. Obviously Mamzou and Kasen are up to something in Forbidden Scrollery and Wild and Horned Hermit, and then there's the whole matter of Bougetsushou where Yukari plays everyone like a fiddle. Specifically in that there's this second-order of mental wrestling going on between her and a lot of people. At the very least, her strategy basically came down to "I know that you know that I have a contingency, but I don't think you'll pay attention to my second actually likely to succeed contingency since the first one is me."

As for the games at least, a fair number of them are about someone trying to do something dangerous that would impact the rest of Gensokyo, and every time, they are beat down by an impoverished shrine maiden or one of her friends.

You could just say "Well why don't they not use spell cards" but the spell card system is mostly in effect for the benefit of the youkai because with a few exceptions, attacking the shrine maiden with intent to kill is in one way or another absolutely suicidal. Either the shrine maiden bests you, as she is likely to do, or maybe you do kill her, and then something awful happens to the barrier that is responsible for letting you exist, and you and your buddies go *poof*.

>>16011712
I wish that the poor fortune teller could fight the heroine in a spellcard battle instead of getting slaughtered for Reimus own amusement.

>>16013613
>At the very least, her strategy basically came down to "I know that you know that I have a contingency, but I don't think you'll pay attention to my second actually likely to succeed contingency since the first one is me."
She had a third!

>>16016710
i thought it went
1) remilia & friends
2) her + ran
3) yuyuko and youmu

its been a while

>>16016779
Yes, I just misunderstood what you meant.

>>16002414
Eiki is stronger purely because she is a yama. Yukari, being alive, would eventually die and be judged by Eiki, like all living things. Only immortals are safe.
However, Yukari's powers could fuck over immortals, so power levels are retarded, just look at everything as a large game of rock paper scissors. E.g Marisa beats Yukari. Cirno beats Marisa. This doesnt make CIrno stronger than Yukari just because she can beat Marisa who beat Yukari.

>>16017432
Wasn't Marisa canonically going easy on Cirno, anyway?

>>16017442
She was drunk and using a literal flashlight. Nahhh.

>>16017442
at the end of the extra it's als ocirno that is beat up

It's mentioned that she's stronger, but she's still quite respectful to the princess.

Eirin did tutor the princess after all.

However, Eirin does require Kaguya to make the hourai elixir, so there's that.

>>16020357
>It's mentioned that she's stronger
Where?

>>16020362
From her profile in Imperishable Night:

>In truth, she has power well beyond that of Kaguya's. She saves her power and maintains it at a lower level out of respect for Kaguya.

>>16020375
Eirin confirmed for bigger NEET than Kaguya.

>>16001970
Nah it's because Kaguya is better at danmaku games

Eirin is strong but she's Yukari's bitch.

Why am I still seeing spoopy skeletons here?

Kaguya is the strongest, fuck you guys

File: 1384897019349.png (108KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

108KB, 500x500px

>>16000302
Yes but Yama dabbie doo is the strongest and her power is maximum.

File: 5b3f50bde7c907d4fa63d0f4f49817df.jpg (178KB, 768x1024px) Image search: [Google]

178KB, 768x1024px

Seija is canonically the strongest 2hu.

File: 1322945354672.jpg (202KB, 1000x1000px) Image search: [Google]

202KB, 1000x1000px

She makes the rules around Eientei

File: 1371883712275.png (149KB, 242x360px) Image search: [Google]

149KB, 242x360px

>>16055770

File: 33.jpg (200KB, 850x1163px) Image search: [Google]

200KB, 850x1163px

>>16002041
Meiling has the biggest boobs!

File: I am The Law.gif (144KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

144KB, 500x500px

>>16055770
PLZ!

>>16000344

I think you mean eirin.

File: mooninites.jpg (65KB, 400x300px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 400x300px

Who would win in a fight? Kaguya and Eirin or picrelated?

>>16061606
There is no escaping.

Focused movement is useless.

File: 1234567890.jpg (87KB, 700x700px) Image search: [Google]

87KB, 700x700px

>>16061379
>>16055770
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvJiYrRcfQo