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Rhythm Games Thread

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Thread replies: 388
Thread images: 31

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previous thread
>>15315945
>>
YO
>>
random isn't cheating
>>
Uncontrollable IIDX rage edition?
>>
Why do the chinks have a celebration that stops shipping every fucking week?
>>
>>15369734

Fuck Mass MAD Izm and fuck scratch heavy charts.

Delete this thread right now!
>>
Alright, so years ago I saw some South Korean fuck saying that your gaming "reaction" time gets too slow at age 29.

My question is "Is IIDX a young man's game?"

By this I mean, is there an at which one is no longer capable of playing? Simply too old and too slow to play?

I'm thinking that maybe you're never too old to play , but only because you got good at the game young.

Basically, If you aren't doing 12s in your 20s, you'll never do 12s ever.
>>
>>15370076
nah, the only thing that might stop you from playing as you get older is if your hands get RSI or whatever

i mean Mad Matt is like 32 and he's probably still the fastest ITG player
>>
shakunetsu a shit
naughty girl a best
>>
>>15370076
You definitely gets slower with each but if you've been honing your skills and your reaction speed for years you'll still be faster than the young people who never trained.

Like a old kung fu master destroying a /fit/ fag.
>>
>>15370434
>Like a old kung fu master destroying a /fit/ fag.
unfortunately this never happens
>>
>>15370335
Mad Matt is the perfect example
>>
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Why aren't you 皆伝 yet /jp/?
>>
>>15371180
because i dont anger simulator 2016
>>
>>15371180
Will I look like those losers on my way there?

I'm still trying to become a normalfag, you know.
>>
>>15370076
>increase GN
>???

I've seen older people playing IIDX and wrecking 12's.
>>
>>15371262
You'll never make it if you don't give up completely and dedicate your life to mashing buttons.
>>
IIDX vs. Gitadora
Which is harder?
Not based on charts, based on potential difficulty
>>
>>15371792
IIDX DP
>>
Why is there no option for sanwa here? Does the real edition DP come with sanwa preinstalled?
http://www.gamo2.com/en/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=248
>>
>>15371820
nvm, i'm retarded
>>
>tfw want to make a cheap taiko controller using a attiny85 but can't into v-usb

>>15369734
I love this song but hate to play it. Why it's so hard even though doesn't look like?
>>
>>15373203
Everything's harder with constant scratches.

Also it's a bit less intuitive to time scratches well.
>>
Anyone want to explain to me how Hard and EX Hard can make a song easier?

Some ratings on Statistik go down on Hard. How does it make a song anything but harder?
>>
>>15373845
if a song has an ending that's way more bullshit than the rest of it
see: second heaven, gigadelic
>>
>>15373845
Bullshit ending might drop you to 78% on Normal.

On Hard it'll maybe drop you down to 40%, but as long as it doesn't go to 0% then you've passed the song.
>>
A thought occurred to me. Can us gaijins get on the eAmuse website and look at all the scoreboards and shit?

See how many 100% Dolce. has gotten?
>>
when is random supposed to make me better, it's just making these 12s even more of an illegible clusterfuck than they already were
>>
>>15371227
Only Anger Simulator if you're a super autist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4PTf7LgsIE
>>
>>15374288
imo its better to use random on stuff you can clear somewhat easily, since you're trying to read weird patterns more easily, and not necessarily training for density.

I'm still on 10s/11s though so this might be invalid advice at your level.
>>
>>15374272
Yes, but only if you've paid for the e-amuse subscription.

Yep, that's right, on top of being jewed out for Paseli, you also have to pay to access rivals and the online website to look at scores/other people.

Luckily, you can pay once, set it up, and the rivals will remain even after your subscription expires (if you have friends and access to legit e-amuse, neither of which I have).
>>
>>15374288
Random isn't meant to help you pass a song, it's meant to present you with awkward or potentially bullshit patterns so that you get used to them, which makes passing harder songs with bullshit patterns easier.

Practice with a song you can already pass.
>>
>>15374288
Random only really makes songs with scale patterns easier (kakumei is a good example).

Everything else is a crapshoot. You're encouraged to play on random to improve your ability to recognize uncommon patterns, and strengthen your weaker fingers.
>>
Right now my biggest challenge is scratching while hitting another key. Is there any good way to train myself to do TT-1 with the same hand or will I just have to force myself to learn it somehow?
>>
>>15374596
You're scratching with your pinky, right?
For me, my scratch hand normally covers the three closest keys, but only covers keys 6/7 (1/2 for 1P) when scratching. I move my other hand's thumb onto key 5 (key 3) for 5+7+scratch chords.

And if it's an Izm chart, I one-hand keys 1-6, and only use my scratch hand to hit key 7.
>>
Why do people hate mayumi so much?
>>
>>15374627
They do?
>>
>>15374627
I like Mayumi.
>>
Why do people cum on mayumi so much?
>>
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>>15374726
Because she's so nailable.
>>
>>15374596
Assuming pinky scratching, hit 1 or 3 with the thumb while scratching with the pinky. Just get the muscle memory in.

2 is typically hit with the index in this case. If you need to hit S+1+3, then bring over the right hand.
>>
>>15374914
I do S+1+3 by pressing 1 and 3 with my thumb.
>>
Has anyone AAA'd MENDES Black Another on a not KOC?

I looked but couldn't find a video of it.
>>
>>15374914
>>15374618
What's this about pinky scratching?
I'm playing 4s right now. I'm very new, been playing on a controller for three days. I scratch with my wrist. I haven't seen anybody play, it just seems like the best way to do it because I can still hit all 3 keys and it just naturally fell into place.

Is this a scrub trap? Should I learn how to scratch with my pinky?
>>
>>15376324
>Should I learn how to scratch with my pinky?
http://the-safari.com/1871
>>
>>15376324
>>15376555

basically its saying there is a skill ceiling to wrist scratching but you'll progress much faster than pinky scratching players.

ive seen people clearing 12s with wrist scratching though. imo its more fun to learn various playstyles and move your fingers around tbqh
>>
>>15376584
>>15376555
I see. Thank you.
>>
Just started playing DjMax Trilogy. Am I dreaming or even when you fail to press the correct key, the combo doesn't break?
>>
>>15376324
There's nothing particularly wrong with scratching with your wrist and using 1048 - plenty of top players use this style and it works fine.

wrist scratching is still cheating though
>>
>>15369734
There is no chart better than this song
>>
>>15377276
There's an assist option that forgives hitting the wrong key with the correct timing. Disable it.
>>
>>15373855
>Could never pass Second Heaven on normal
>To practice for the hard part, you have to go through the entire song that's mostly easy

Hate stuff like that. Sweet song though, felt good when I finally managed to clear it.
>>
after a week or two of playing, I finally cleared 7th Dan

where do I go from here?
>>
>>15378306
8th Dan.
>>
>>15378306

Keep playing and stop lying on the internet
>>
>>15378548
I cleared ubertreffen with like 75% in the hard gauge. I guess it sort of helped that I was in the future phase too

I'm primarily a pomu player and hit a wall at 46 so I thought I should pick up iidx
>>
>>15378306
>>15378542
This, I literally sightread 8th dan right after clearing 7th. Build up your gauge for gigadelic and it'll be easy
>>
>>15378722
Gigadelic is only bullshit at the end.

I think I recovered more than half my gauge during the song and nearly lost it all at the end. Became 8th Dan with only 2% left.
>>
Did Tricoro really need three different songs with "Star" on its title on the soundtrack?
>>
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just realized the USKOC has this mysterious port on the side
what is it for
>>
>>15379363
is it for an unreleased BMIII pedal?
vaguely remember hearing of one
>>
What does "Denim" mean on Statistik?

I'm guessing it refers to a specific type of pattern.
>>
>>15379431
http://textage.cc/score/0/denim.html?1AA00~23-23
>>
>>15379470
mmmmmmm
>>
Hey. I have a USKOC for iidx and have been meaning to upgrade for a while. Is the FP7 the go to next step or is there a better choice?
>>
>>15379691
It's the next step. Anything better than that is you spending thousands of dollars.

Be sure to order it with some better microswitches.
>>
>>15379721

It seems like on the gamo2 website there's 4 different weights on microswitches besides the default. Any recommendations? I'm considering the 50g
>>
>>15379691
>>15379721

>Be sure to order it with some better microswitches.

Buy them separately from some other store, and buy the US storehouse FP7 (unless you're one of those weird people who don't live in the US).

Dao marks up his switches by like 100%, so unless you REALLY care about some specific, goofy LED configuration, US Storehouse and buying your own Omrons is the way to go.
>>
>>15379748
You can buy your own LEDs that'll fit as well.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kVlRvmi-78
greatest moment in the history of iidx
>>
>>15379748
>>15379753

Thanks I'll look up the prices of switches right now.
>>
Is Dolce the Mozart of the modern world?
>>
>>15379808

And for your other question, 50g switches with 100g springs are the arcade standard I believe.

I think Sanwas come with 100g springs if you ever decide to upgrade further.

And the switch model you want is D2MV-01-1C3.
>>
>>15379058
>>15378722

Gigadelic is the least of my concerns. I can't get passed Kamikaze with its non-stop waves of meme ass fuck chords.
Then I have to tangle with 5ympho X right after. Fuck 8th Dan.

>>15379777

>tfw no assault imouto
>>
>>15379923
I got 100% health up until 5ymphoX, which left me at 36%... then ass blasted at gigadelic.

Kamikaze just takes memorization, to be honest. Gigadelic is plain 'ol mean.
>>
>>15379363
stick your dick in it
>>
>>15377878
Thanks.
>>
how has dolce not gotten bored of playing iidx
does he actually fun playing the same charts that he's been able to AAA for like the last 5 years?
>>
>>15382640
he lives in japan so at least he gets new 12s to AAA then never come back to unless its for score raises

unlike any of us
>>
Does anybody else play with their DAO on their lap?
:3
>>
>>15382640
There's a guy who clear every song in one of the older mixes without looking at the screen.
>>
Seriously, though. How do I advance in Pop'n?

Have only a handful of clears on 41s, and 42s just jump up dramatically to the point where it's a different game. It seems all I can do is bang my head against these 41s until they start to give way. But with only 1 safe song a play, it's an enormous pain in my ass.

It's gotten to the point where I feel safer on EX than Hyper since 38s, 39s, and 40s on EX are more than likely just a "chordy" affair, which I'm pretty comfortable with. But damn near every song on EX is a 43+.

Scales still absolutely fuck my shit entirely and it seems Random, and S-Random are quite literally useless features for improving unlike for IIDX.
>>
>>15383552
I hit a wall in pomu at around 42. it's a real grind, but after you get over it it's smooth sailing till about 45-46, which is where I am nkwy
>>
>>15383957

I figured that after 42 it levels out. So basically if you can do a 42, you have at least a shot at 44s/45s?

Must be nice.
>>
I only know about the Touhou songs in Pendual and not all the stuff on SDVX, so is Alice's theme in there? And is the remix any good?
>>
>>15384167
Nope.
>>
>>15384315
Lame.
>>
>>15384167
>>15384315
yes, there is Alice's theme, JEHANNEDARC
>>
>>15383169
No, that's the most uncomfortable way to do it and it hurts my wrists.
>>
>>15380573
I managed to pass Gigadelic first try with like 20%
>>
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Who /canmusic/ here?
>>
>>15384951
I thought we were talking strictly about BEMANI×TOHO songs
>>
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>>15385462
>>
>>15382640
I wonder if he's ever considered giving Insane BMS a shot. It would give him more of a challenge.
>>
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https://vine.co/v/OdjwDBElBzJ
https://vine.co/v/i6traqqPeUJ
https://vine.co/v/OKwpp0DFY6Q
https://vine.co/v/e6KZLjXKXe7
https://vine.co/v/eY1QHee9AP0
https://vine.co/v/iPn9zap7vju
https://vine.co/v/ihgTlZK6vrb
https://vine.co/v/iMtIFdZjqUe
https://vine.co/v/O37BdajipQM
https://vine.co/v/ivW3V6J7XM0

bemani vines are the best
>>
>>15385909
yes they are.
I have a bunch of good ones too. but I'm too lazy to post 'em
>>
>>15385934

Please do i need more
>>
>>15385951
muhh, ok.... not doing anything anyway.

https://vine.co/v/ePZzz163vvi
https://vine.co/v/iqEDavQ5Jm7
https://vine.co/v/iAhzbpTPFIg
https://vine.co/v/iMhW7wTxr23
https://vine.co/v/eALLphEUraq
https://vine.co/v/OLWnA9dhZBA
https://vine.co/v/elb7iwFzLpP
https://vine.co/v/OLEtlhVME56
https://vine.co/v/iW0deunnKhb
https://vine.co/v/eUztQvweVFU
https://vine.co/v/eiATegT0qrx
https://vine.co/v/ee2WgLtrme5
https://vine.co/v/erKK11JpUEK
https://vine.co/v/eeH2T2z6eKm
https://vine.co/v/ejmeTe9j0lA
https://vine.co/v/O3U0ve7lAV0
https://vine.co/v/iZxJmdgJLtn
https://vine.co/v/evbWXr3zuuV
https://vine.co/v/OYmX3bdBFQZ
https://vine.co/v/eAagaQuTJHP

I'll stop here....
>>
>>15385992

I've seen the majority of those, darn
But the ones I hadn't were funny, that dirty of loudness lmao. Thanks for sharing anon
>>
>>15386009
Aww, sorry. I should have gone through them more thoroughly.

You're welcome.
>>
>>15385992
ily
>>
>>15385909

>https://vine.co/v/iMtIFdZjqUe

I can't even tell what's funny or special about this. Is it how he does that double scale type pattern at the end?
>>
>>15385658
FUTURE METALLIC CAN
>>
>>15387312
Hi derpta
>>
>>15387353
PREMIUM SKIN
who's derpta
>>
>>15387377
You did this in MGH like a week ago when the mexifag posted about this
>>
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>>15387403
What? No
This is the second time I'm confused with someone else

the first time was tuxdude
I'm not even on MGH
>>
>>15387417
I remember when that happened lmao

So who are you really zzzz
>>
What's the best way to play IIDX on pc?
LR2 is shit familam
>>
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>>15387445
>>
>>15387443
I'd rather stay anonymous.

So, /rgg/, are you participating on BOFU2016?
>>
>>15387445
Play IIDX.
>>
>>15387445
infinitas =^)
>>
>>15387445
lr2 < infinitas < iidx

And use a controller.
>>
>>15387657
LR2 is to IIDX a supplement, not a replacement.
Stop trying to use LR2 as a replacement to IIDX.
>>
>>15387675
>IIDX supplement

Stop memeing its the other way around
>>
>>15387675
Which is why I put it at the bottom of the list when he asked "how does play iidx on pc?????"
>>
>>15387688
As in IIDX is an LR2 supplement?
I could stand behind that.
>>15387694
That makes sense.
>>
>>15387697
Precisely. 99% of kaiden users usually go to Insane BMS on BM input. And many Normal BMS players train for dans with iidx.
>>
>>15387657
Using an FP7
Is Infinitas a pain to set up? Is IIDX a pain to set up? Would you just run it through MAME?
>>15387675
I don't really have any alternative right now, friend.
>>
Is the percentage after Dan your EX percentage or the average of your clear rates?

Cause if it's the former, I fucking struggled my ass off only to get a C on 8th Dan.
>>
>>15387777
>Would you just run it through MAME?
no, AC Data are actually windows programs.
>>
>>15387777
IIDX is as hard as running a .bat

Just get the data for it.
>>
>>15387959
>>15387964
Oh sweet. So those 30 gb files on leggendaira will just work.
Isn't there some sort of always online thing Konami has been doing with their cabinets lately?
I'll get that downloading anyway, thank you for the help.
>>
yoshi.....taka.......please..........
>>
>>15385992
>that erasermotorphantom vine

Holy shit, I wasn't prepared.
>>
>>15387777
Infinitas is a pain to get and pay for.

Get AC Data. It's not too difficult to setup as long as your monitor/timing is okay and you make sure to exit literally everything on your computer except IIDX.
>>
>>15388066
My monitor has 4ms lag. Is that what you're talking about?

I already do that for LR2 so it doesn't crash as often anyway
>>
>>15388075
AC Data has plenty of latency naturally - however it's extremely reliant on a very, very constant refresh rate on your monitor for timing, so as long as you pass the monitor check with at least 3 constant decimal points you'll be fine.
>>
>>15388089
And that monitor test is in the data, I would assume.

If it doesn't work, I can simply buy another monitor, right?
>>
>>15388111
Yep, it's in the data.

Relevant tech support/recommended monitors are all on sows.
>>
>>15388117

Does it just not boot if it's too fucked? I have a perfect CRT so I wouldn't know anything about subpar refresh rates.
>>
>>15388252
It'll boot, unlike SDVX, which just silently crashes if it can't find a 720x1280 res.

Doesn't matter what your refresh rate is, as long as it doesn't move.
>>
>>15387851
It's clear rate average. If it was EX score, literally nobody would be able to get 100% on 10th dan.
>>
I don't have my controller and I decided to try and pass 6th dan on keyboard just for fun.

I barely made it with 10% gauge remaining, and now I feel like I cheated because I didn't have a controller.
>>
>>15385732
Don't worry senpai, it still took me like 100 tries to pass The Safari.
>>
You guys ready for the IIDX western release announcement at E3?
>>
>>15388666
Like that’s going to happen.
>>
>>15388666
Chapter 3 has a better chance of happening than that.
>>
>>15388666
SDVX4 when
>>
>>15388577
exact opposite for me haha. I managed to do safari in a couple of tries but the end of gigadelic fucks me over
>>
Is Random really supposed to make things easier or do I just have terrible luck? Can almost never clear anything on Random. And I can't say I'm relying too much on chart memorization because I play a wide range of songs.

Even with scales I get fucked up.
>>
Why pop'n music is the secret master race bemani game:
-you flail your arms all over the place and slam buttons with your palms instead of just tickling keys with your fingers like a sissy
-the inputs are standard: no turntables or knobs or any extra bullshit, just you and nine manly buttons
-unlike iidx konami doesn't butcher the song list with every iteration so it still has all its good music
-the rating scale is the widest of any bemani game so you don't get dumb shit like iidx's 12s and sdvx's 15s
-it's not the mainstream face of bemani like iidx and sdvx are, everyone knows less-known = higher quality in pretty much anything
-girls love pop'n, you will be pop'n pussies as a pop'n music player
>>
>>15389401
>Is Random really supposed to make things easier
No, it's supposed to make you better by exposing you to more patterns.
>>
>>15386379
He hits 8th chords as 16ths and 16ths as 8th chords.

>>15388075
>My monitor has 4ms lag.
No it doesn't. Pixel response time is not the same thing as total display latency.
>>
>>15389425
You forgot
-a lot of songs aren't keysounded
-some of the keysounded songs sound like absolute garbage
-extremely inconsistent difficulty rating
-furfags everywhere
-filled with anime music
-literally made for children
>>
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So extra exclusive and saviour songs are out today

1/3
>>
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>>15390004
2/3
>>
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>>15390027
3/3
You can now unlock past event songs too
>>
>>15389401
No, it's supposed to make things harder by giving you awkward or potentially bullshit patterns that you should practice.
>>
>>15389990
>extremely inconsistent difficulty
to be honest IIDX 12s and IIDX DP is like this, and SDVX 15 is also like this
>filled with anime music
just like SDVX, but at least it's not Jubeat

>>15389425
Look if I cared about girls I'd be playing Maimai or Taiko
>>
>>15390061
>>15389628
That makes more sense.
>>
>>15390071
When you have just 12 or 16 levels of difficulty its harder to consistently rate your difficulties, but when you have over 40 there is no excuse for it to be inconsistent.
>>
museca buttons feel so nice
>>
>>15390311
they just make me feel like playing neon fm instead desu
>>
>>15390520
Neon FM buttons have shit height and take a retarded amount of force to register though.
Museca buttons are at least sensitive.
>>
>>15390577
those are good points but still

hitting hard plastic with your whole hand just isn't fun

pop'n buttons are slightly better but obviously museca has to have buttons that can spin
>>
When do I get to stop doing Light Start in SDVX? I'm using E-Amuse if that wasn't obvious.
>>
>>15390592
You can just graze it. In fact hitting with your whole hand makes it harder to spin the button
>>
>>15390311
controllers and data

W H E N
H
E
N
>>
>>15385992
>tfw you'll never touch your bro's nipples under the guise of a joke
>>
>>15389425

>the rating scale is the widest of any bemani game

Not true. Drum mania has the widest difficulty scale of any bemani game, and by far.

Ratings theoretically go from 0.01 to 9.99 making for one thousand difficulties. They might not all be occupied, but the game does use 0.01 increments. And even if it were only 0.05 increments it would still be 200 difficulties.

Also, Pop'n's difficulties mean literally fuck all. I can pass a few 42s, but there's a 38 I will NEVER be able to pass. It might as well be a 50 for me.

>>15389990

>literally made for children

This is the thing about Pop'n I love the most. I looks like some cutesy, cartoony, kiddie attraction at some daycare where you leave your brat kids for a day so you can go have fun. But even looking like that, it's still an unforgiving, oppressive nightmare of a game. Only slightly behind IIDX on its skill ceiling.

>>15390620

Do the skill analyzer. The game always thinks you're a scrub when you start, but it'll let you play what it thinks you can pass after you do it.
>>
>>15390839
>Do the skill analyzer
oh ok thanks anon
>>
>>15390785
just start doing surprise nipple twists, they'll take it as a joke
source: i did that in high school and it became a normal thing throughout the three years i was there
>>
>>15390842
reminder

skill analyser courses let you play up to the difficulty of the songs it has, if it has a level 11 song, it will let you play up to 11, if it has a 16, it will let you do 16s.
>>
>>15390933
so like right now i'm allowed to play a 7 for my first song, an 8 for my second, and up to a 14 (i think? haven't bothered scrolling that far since i'm having trouble with most 12s) for the third song.

if i played a skill analyzer course with 10s in it, would i then be allowed to play 10s on the first and second songs of a game?
>>
>>15390939
>>15390933

actually i just did some googling and i found this

http://bemaniwiki.com/index.php?SOUND%20VOLTEX%20III%20GRAVITY%20WARS%2FSKILL%20ANALYZER#r40110b7

it looks like i'm considered "skill level 1" here and that's the reason for the requirements

so if i passed one of the level 3 charts i'd be allowed to play, say, a 10 and two 12s on a single credit

i'm a total newfag to sdvx and e-amuse and music games with unlocks in general
>>
R1 SSM Sunday Night Report.

The skiing game was moved away from the opposite side to IIDX, so now there's no more reflection issue. Good.

I still can't unlock Something Wonderful or that other song with the BPM bullshit. I take it there's some trick to getting them to show up but I haven't looked it up anywhere.

While I'm here I just want to say that I prefer playing LR2/BMS content at home. There's so much stuff out there so at least something out of it should appeal to everyone, both in terms of song quality and challenge. LR2 lets you use All Notes mode as well, which means you have more songs to fail on and improve with, or otherwise potentially make boring songs more interesting to play.
>>
Just bought an fp7 from djdao here in the states, when can I expect to get it? (Based free shipping promotion, none of that stupid 75 dollar shipping from Japan.
>>
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>>15391100

He's got a fancy little chart for ya. A week at max, I guess?
>>
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Can anyone tell me why my LR2 has suddenly started giving me this message everytime I switch tabs in the setup?
>>
>>15391448
RUN THIS GAME IN JAPANESE LOCALE
>>
>>15391448
>>15391453
>Can I use AppLocale?
NO
>>
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How many of you dudes are excited for Camellia's first major album coming out in about a month or so from now? I'm hype as shit.

Also god damn I want him to do more collab songs with Sota Fujimori. AZISAI was the shit.
>>
>>15391534
Cautiously excited, worried that EXIT TUNES's meddling will lower the quality. They've revealed the track list and I'm already unhappy with the choices for tracks they've borrowed from other albums. Glitch Nerds is okay but Camellia's done better "lol i'm a gamur xD" songs like Hello to the your first video game and First Town of This Journey. EDM jumpers is just a shit pick, if they wanted a Nanahira song, they could've picked something from Versus/LSR/Replay which all have their fair share of good tunes, even beissudoroppu would've been a better pick but hey, gotta sell those comps. Still, I have hope that it'll be a good album, Camellia is one of the few doujin artists I hold in very high regard and his solo instrumental albums are fantastic (except for PLANET//SHAPER, that one was a pretty big disappointment). Hell, even his denpa albums are pretty good.

As for collabs camel vs shandy when
>>
>>15391612
I've been a fan of him ever since Paroxysm. His music just presses all my buttons. That recent breakcore song he did Break The Silence was amazing.

I'm happy that he's finally made his big break into mainstream electronic music, but I agree that I hope the label doesn't mess with it too much. Still, it's a new Camellia album so I want it. Hope someone uploads it to one of the usual places like Doujinstyle.

>camel vs shandy
Oh my god yes.
>>
>>15391624
>his music just presses all my buttons
heh
>>
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>>15391630
Totally intentional.
>>
I only like camellia when he's with nanahira
>>
>>15391612

I need more Camellia ft. Reol in my life
>>
>>15391716
>tfw two Camellia feat. Reol songs were copyright striked off of Youtube
>>
>>15391100
>none of that 75 dollar shipping from japan
You mean 93 dollar shipping from china.
>>
After how long of playing did you get your first AAA? IIDX, of course
>>
>>15392009
Still haven't gotten one. I've gotten AAs though.

About 1.5 years.
>>
>>15392009
On what difficulty
>>
>>15392096

Doesn't matter. A AAA is a AAA. I doubt I could get one right now even on a 4.
>>
>>15392009
I got my first AAA doing Tangerine Stream on Another. Might not be a terribly hard Another, but I was pretty happy with it.
>>
>>15392145
I can barely even pass 4s
>>
>>15392158
same desu
>>
Is there anyone worse to buy stuff from than Matvei?
>>
>>15392325
erokitsune
>>
>>15392559

Sounds furry as fuck.
>>
>>15392616
furries are hot
>>
>>15392009
I think it was a few years.

First one on PS2 was Junglist King N14.

I'm the type of person who more cares about clears than AAAs, and I can't stand grinding songs. It's rare for me to play a song more than once in an arcade visit and I try to keep things weeks apart at home.

Curiously enough, I'm able to get AAAs "easier" on Copula than on the sim program at home. Between Copula and Pendual I think I have hit AAA about ten times or so; meanwhile in 20000+ songs played at home in the last four years I haven't hit AAA one single time. I avoid playing easy songs at home, but still.
>>
>Life's a bitch
>Drop the shit!

Damn Superbeat is one edgy game.
>>
There's literally no way to get used to the left pedal in Gitadora. There's like 5 songs that use it lightly and the rest that use it at all spam the shit out of it.
I hate my life.
>>
>>15393121
>superbeat
???
>>
>>15385909
>https://vine.co/v/OdjwDBElBzJ
>https://vine.co/v/OKwpp0DFY6Q

what songs are these
>>
>>15394142
USAO - Miracle 5ympho X
m1dy - m1dy Festival

You could've literally googled the second one, the title's in the vine.
>>
>>15394106
Superbeat Xonic. That Vita rhythm game.
>>
>>15392009
I've been playing DDR since 2010 and still haven't gotten a AAA. The best that I can do is get below 10 greats on level 7 and 8 songs using the old scale. I think my record is 2 greats but I can't remember what song.
>>
help i literally cannot get this stupid-ass mystery line prim mermaid song out of my head
>>
>>15393121
The devs (of DJMax by extension) aren't exactly strangers to having swear words in the songs, but "Drop The Shit!" is pretty in-your-face. Shame, because I rather like that song but it's such a stupid fucking name.
>>
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>>15394429
Join the club
>>
I called every arcade in Victoria. Not one had IIDX or SDVX, and one or two had DDR. I already know two DDR locations, but they've both got busted pads.

Why is life in Australia suffering?
>>
>>15394974
Alaska is a similar situation, one DDR machine.
>>
>>15394974
The arcade in Box Hill used to have a IIDX machine on PW but I haven't been there since it died so I don't know if they still have it. They had a jubeat machine too but it never had online and was in bad shape.
>>
>>15395016
Do you have a phone number I could call to check?
>>
>>15395201
Weird ass area code but I found it.

8002774653
>>
>>15395246
Optus advises that the number you have dialed has been disconnected
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beyI_cQ3HnI
>>
>>15394974

Hey, it's where Darqs got gud, so there's something somewhere.

But it's no better in the US. I seriously would not be surprised if you told me there were less than 100 public IIDX machines in all of America.

Meanwhile there are probably 100 in Akiba alone, if not more.
>>
>>15395464
I'd be surprised if there were even 100 people who play IIDX in Australia
>>
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Which flavor of moimoi do you prefer?

Short blonde hair or long brunette?
>>
>>15394974
Australia is retarded for rhythm games, BEMANI will sell the cabs to them and setup E-Amuse, but australian arcades are as afraid of money as Konami is.
>>
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>>15394819
no please
>>
osu!mania scoreV2 got implemented in cutting edge today aaaaand

>Score is made up of 20% combo and 80% accuracy.

what the fuck were those retards thinking
>>
>>15396709
why are they so insistent on keeping it combo based at ALL
>>
>>15396718

It's pretty nice actually.

It allows you to know it's hopeless the second you miss a note. Miss a note and just exit the song immediately and retry.

Better than having to trudge through a whole song with false hopes you can makeup for your mistakes by "nailing that hard section coming up".
>>
>>15396724
If this was in IIDX, my FC As would be considered "better" than other players' non-FC AAAs.

That is pure bullshit.
>>
>>15396718
Because they're fucking retarded?
>>
It's taken me a week and a half and I've finally broken into a few 5s I can consistently clear.

Jesus it feels great.
>>
>>15397115
A week and a half? You should've started with rhythm tengaku or some shit, you have no sense of rhythm.
>>
>>15397183

Fucking brutal, man. What the fuck. We all gotta start somewhere. I played the fuck outta BMUS for months and only ever cleared a few 6s and a 7 or two.

Tone done the dickery.
>>
>>15397183
I've AAed Max 300.
.-.
>>
>>15397205
I just haven't met anyone who just didn't immediately jump to 6s and 7s after the initial "I know where the buttons are" phase.
it was genuine advice, even if it's harsh.
>>
>>15397213
>implying 2dicks has anything to do with a sense of rhythm and not just the skill of applying charts to the arcane button layout
>>
>>15397183
These are LR2 5s, if it makes a difference. I heard somewhere that the normal scale is pretty interchangeable with the IIDX scale.
>>
>>15397207

I believe in you. Keep at it friend.
>>
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When will they add ひなビタ to IIDX?
>>
what kind of arguments do you guys have against combo based scoring in a vsrg?
>>
>>15398342
it bad, famalam
>>
>>15398342
It's dumb.

I get a shit grade on DJ Max Trilogy just because I missed a few notes so my combo wasn't big enough even though my precision was spot on.
>>
>>15397558
maybe after the official paraparaparadise revival they'll do it
>>
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>>15398350
>>15398370
but why is it bad?
>>
>>15398388
Because rhythm games are based on rhythm.

Having inferior rhythm but barely managing to hit every single note should not give you a far superior score to someone who's exactly on beat the entire song but misses a single note.
>>
>>15395276
>Not choosing this song in the spoiler
Ya blew it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2SKW9ttNwc
>>
>>15397231
>blaming the layout now

sasuga
>>
>>15398388
Because barely hitting 800 notes in a row should not be more valuable than accurately hitting ~780 cumulatively.

Overall accuracy and rhythm should be the priority of scoring.
>>
>>15397029
Peppy is fucking retarded, can confirm. He's so stubborn about making "his" game that he won't change anything he doesn't want to, regardless of what the community thinks. It doesn't help that he built his staff like an echo chamber that suck his dick all day and 90% of the player base are underages that never played a real rhythm game. Tom seems okay, though.
>>
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hi ano. Is there any download fan-made songs for Project Diva extended (PPSSPP)?
>>
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>>15399397
>>
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Nㅌw rhythm gamㅌ

Cat buttholㅌ rhythm music
>>
>>15395464

According to zenius there are 39 iidx cabs in all of america, and only one of those is in all of south america
and 9 of them are here just in socal, lol
>>
>>15399504
charliefromcali get out or get cat rApㅌd
>>
>>15399510

I would say literally who but the very few times i've been on the degenerate cesspool that is the sows forums to solve some technical issues i've seen his name mentioned.
>>
>>15398342
It often makes no sense, as accuracy is completely irrelevant in such a system, so you could have a top score that's a C rank with a full combo, but right behind it an S that had a single miss.
>>
ez2dj 14k looks fucking hard
>>
>>15399722
It's made for fucking korean aliens, seriously though it's fucking stupid in a way, having you play with 4 buttons that weren't even placed in a playable location anyway.
>>
So I've been watching some beatmania III videos and I've never seen anything to do with that pedal.

Are there not notes for it on screen?
>>
>>15399933
IIRC only a few charts used it. It was an extra mode.
>>
>>15399980

So Bemani made a whole different cab just to showcase a goofy pedal that's only ever very rarely used?

No wonder beatmania III went extinct.
>>
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Friendly reminder that this meme pattern is impossible to hit.

If you know somebody who disagrees, remember to call the police. You might be talking to a raging fucking paedophile.
>>
>>15400295
What songs is this pattern even in?
>>
>>15400311
Playing LR2 will get you very familiar with this pattern
Also, random
>>
>>15388666
Fuck you satan. ;_;
>>
>>15397012
I don't understand, Taiko (Bandai) is combo based and I've never seen anybody complaining.
>>
is this the hardest rhythm game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-4GXhHbrQs
>>
>>15400734
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn7focy7N1g

same song better angle
>>
>>15400738
this looks harder than iidx dude
>>
>>15400734
>>15400738

Looks goofy but IIDX will always be the great grand father of rhythm games.

There is no game goofy or even life threatening enough to astound others.
>>
>>15400762
the nonsensical button placement limits the game from being able to reach iidx-level densities, and will thus always be less impressive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaRc43nYfAY
>>
>>15400738
Scales: The Game
>>
>>15400683
Because taiko is already about getting a perfect run, being a drum game.
>>
>>15400683
because Taiko is casual babby shit
>>
>>15400683
Taiko has had an optional scoring mode that ignores combos for a while now and is used in competitions, but like above anon said combos are much more intertwined with the drum gameplay than other types of games.
>>
my arms get tired after playing taiko for a couple seconds
>>
>>15400734
>>15400738
Honestly that doesn't look too hard aside from the scales and could be fun once you get good at moving your hands to the red keys.

Still not nearly as hard as the hardest IIDX DP charts
>>
>>15400738
>round notes
it's shit
>>
>>15401067
This looks autistic as fuck. Why not simply make a keyboard game then?
>>
Question for taller people who play SDVX on arcade:
How do you stand when you play? Right now I have to hunch over to press anything.
>>
>>15401844

power stance nigga
>>
>>15399933
>>15399980
>>15400115

While there were indeed only a few songs which had the pedal as a charted note, the main purpose for having it otherwise was to activate the Sound Effector filter, as if hitting Start on a IIDX machine.

Having this on a pedal was meant to encourage using the trimming more often, for which BM3 had tremendous range in the effects (selection to affect keysounds only or both keysounds and BGM, many more filters, more liberty and range on the application of the filters). I recall there being a page on Konami's first BM3 website which featured a few songs and certain measures for which they had recommended settings for players to try.

Had they been a bit more forward thinking, it would have been neat for the pedal to be analog and allow variable pressure to act in the same way as if tweaking the knob.

Beatmania III is a beautiful series.
>>
>>15401844
saw an autist playing in a really wide power stance one time

you could try that

>>15401866
iii the final is my favorite beatmania game
>>
what's the current size of a copula HDD without videos?

I want to get discouraged from even attempting to download it
>>
>>15402812
There isn't a copula HDD released yet in the first place, but i estimate around 50 GB
>>
>>15402831
without videos it would be about 25gb, i doubt the tracklist of copula would add 30gb to the game
>>
>>15402856
didn't read the without videos part, but Pendual is around 40-ish gigs already WITH videos.
>>
>>15402866
And Pendual Omnimix is 50+ gb
>>
>>15402831
>>15402856
>>15402866
>>15402884

do the sows releases usually include the songs released in events?

because copula is great, but if you're able to play the base song list only, it's pretty bad, only Dynamite interests me from there
>>
So when's the wait on Copula gonna be done?

I mean I have literally nothing to add to the project but still. When's the whole DJHACKERS shit gonna come full circle.

Not being an ungrateful piece of shit liberal but still.

Just want me some data.
>>
>>15401844
6'1", I just stand straight, the buttons are a comfortable height.

IIDX is downright painful as I have to powerstance + hunch and the angle leads to cramps on the back of my hands.
>>
>>15402907
Includes the entire data, you generally have to hex edit to get all songs, then add omnimix for all removed songs as well.

>>15402937
When 24 is released.
>>
Since we're crying about Copula, how's Hell Charge Notes?

Do they add anything interesting? They sound boring, like if you're already good about regular charge notes t hey don't seem that different.
>>
>>15402959
free gauge on hard mode
>>
consistency is a meme made up by osufags to try to justify combo based scoring
>>
how the fuck are you supposed to keep up with lasers overlapping like crazy
>>
>>15403301
Memorization.
>>
>>15402937
DJHACKERS is dead, stop expecting anything from them. We'll be lucky to see a Copula release from them, desu.
>>
I'm so tired of the 12 wall.
>>
>EXIT JEW-NES releasing 4 different retailer exclusive remixes for MEGANTO METEOR

jesus, i thought this shit was already bad enough in video games, this is just awful
>>
>>15403301
practice
>>
>>15403621
I'm so tired of the 9 wall.
>>
>>15403621
I'm tired of the upper 11s wall.
>>
>>15403621
I'm getting tired of the 3 wall.
>>
>>15402907
They include all the songs on that version of the HDD, except for Omnimix, they include every song, period.
>>
>>15402937
All data after pendual was uploaded by people not even in DJHACKERS, so don't expect much from them other than help with the crack for said game, plus IIDX 24 Casino hasn't been announced yet, so you can stop holding your breath for a copula months.
>>
>>15403301
jiggle your knob
>>
>>15404134
>>15402937
Yeah, Tau is done and out and so is the rest of the crew. Your best bet if you want new data is to buy your own cab and start sucking dick, I don't think we're going to see new versions released in any sort of timely manner.

And if they are, expect some heavily stripped down and modified stuff, like SDVX3S1 and the missing card generator files.
>>
>>15404274
Three words.

Tau
Semen
Me
>>
>>15379747
I've got the normal gamo buttons with 100g switches because this supposedly gets pretty close to an AC setup (actuation force wise I mean) but I think 50g would have been a better choice. I'm used to my low actuation force from my keyboard so that my be why 100g feels slightly too much. It's fine and I still love my FP7 but if I had the chance to undo my decision I would def try out the 50g.
>>
>>15403621

>tfw you know you'll never be good

Oppressive feels, they are.
>>
>>15403293
I'm an osu fag and I hate combo based scoring. I can have sick acc with decent combo or 1x miss or some retarded shit but in the end it won't matter cause that one autistic fuck with an average acc of 93% still surpasses me in pp cause he got an fc based on reaction timing instead of rhythm sense.
>>
>>15403426

What do you mean DJHACKERS is dead? Did Konami find and waterboard them or did they just give up?

Has the security gotten too hard to crack or something? First I've heard of the whole thing being done.
>>
>>15379747
Get the 50g microswitches
Arcade uses 100g springs and 50g microswitches
DAO uses ~80-100g springs, and you need to fill in the 50g microswitches yourself
>>
>>15404940
>>15379747
Sorry I just got home from work and was rereading the thread to catch up on what I miss, I scrolled up a bunch accidentally
>>
>>15404758
After the c&d and pw shutdown, everyone got paranoid and bailed on working for the community. The whole bemani community is broken to pieces because everyone is still scared of mama Konmai and no one wants to stick their head out in case they suddenly decide to strike back.

It really is a situation where you either need to get your own kit and/or make real good friends with the right people.
>>
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Hi I am Hata-tan o/
I play osu,IIDX (badly) and Cytus

(´;ω;`)
>>
>>15405658
nice blog
>>
>>15405658
one of these things is not like the other
>>
>>15405701
Right. Cytus and IIDX are fun. And osu! is a tiltfest.
>>
>>15405658

>Having an intact FP7

Jealous
>>
I really enjoy playing 7k osu!mania!
>>
>>15404940
If you don't upgrade to sanwa keys, the default dao keys actually come with 40g springs.
>>
>>15405967
You could just order 100g microswitches and remove the springs.
>>
>>15405770
I'LL KILL YOU YOU FUCKING KEK
>>
Keyboard IIDX player here. Ask me ANYTHING.
>>
>>15406296

What do you plan on doing about being a piece of fucking shit?
>>
>>15405658
Stop namefagging, nobody cares
>>
>>15405770
go play canmusic
>>
>>15406315
Come on, don't be like that. I'm a real human bean just like you, too.
>>
>>15406398

I play with a controller, motherfucker.

You and I have nothing in common!
>>
not having money sucks
where can i download an fp7
>>
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>>15406667
right click, save as
>>
>>15406667
I have the money but my conscience holds me back.

The new Super Robot Wars and ZTD are priority at the moment, my FP7 can come later.
>>
>>15406296
How does it feel to waste your time?
>>
>>15406705
I'm pretty sure I can get on the same level (mid 11s) I am with a keyboard on a controller in 2 weeks tops.

In fact, I'll prove it to you guys once I finally get one. The only daunting thing seems to be the turntable.
>>
>>15406726
that's the whole point you monkey

iidx is hard because of the control layout and the turntable

keyboard might as well be a different game
>>
>>15406726
Unless you are extremely good that'll not happen, I was doing 12s on keyboard and went back to 3s on my ASC, took me a month to do 10s
>>
>>15406726
just wrist scratch it dude
>>
>>15406726
>The only daunting thing seems to be the turntable

The entire point of IIDX is having that turntable and the unorthodox key layout fuck you over.

You probably play sdf space jkl or something too.
>>
>>15406746
You guys talk mad shit, but I doubt it's that bad.

IIDX is hard because the charts are difficult and the gauges are unforgiving. The layout of the buttons being awkward will just be a problem on the first few hours. I'm no pussy. If I really fail fucking hard I'll concede and admit you're right, otherwise I'll be rubbing on your face.

>>15406747
>>15406771
What was the hardest part to adapt and learn?
>>
>>15406790
I'm sued to having to move my fingers around and having my hand in awkward positions to press keys, I have some experience with the piano. IIDX can't actually be harder than that.

I'll admit keyboard is much easier to play overall, but I'm sure patterns like >>15400295 are easier on the proper controller.
>>
>>15406794
Turntable, the button layout fucked only up to 6s, but turntable haunted me all the way to 11s
>>
>>15406819
>I have some experience with the piano. IIDX can't actually be harder than that.
>IIDX can't actually be harder than something completely fucking different.
Tell that to the dude playing piano since he was 9 years old and still taking a month to get even close to a 7.
>>
>>15406920
Well I'm actually shit at the piano, so that means I'll be godly at IIDX to compensate.
>>
>>15406920
desu I think learning piano as a kid actually does help you at IIDX

it improved my typing/shitposting speed and helped me get into IIDX a little bit when I started using a controller
>>
They should just change this to "IIDX thread" because honestly that's all you niggers talk about and its pretty annoying to anyone who hates 2dicks like I do.

>inb4 get a controller
I have two of them.
>>
>>15407328
Well what amazing game do you play?
>>
>>15407328
g i t
i
t

g u d
u
d
>>
>>15407328
People here hate anything not made by Konami except LR2, what do you expect?
>>
>>15407373
O2jam, ez2ac, BMS, and many others. Just not fucking iidx
>>
>>15407382
If I play, Im already decent. I can HC 7s and NC 8s and a few 9s
>>
>>15407411
>ez2ac
poor man's iidx
>>
>>15407459
ez2's legit pretty cool though
>>
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>>15407420
>Im already decent.
>I can HC 7s
>>
>>15407404
I hate LR2 though.

It feels like you're supposed to FC everything, since one mistake takes half your gauge and you reach the end of the song without even coming close to having enough to pass.
>>
>>15407328

What game would you like to talk about anon?

Feel free to make a post about it
>>
>>15407538
LR2 is far more lenient on timing though, isn't it?

Only problem is the lack of early/late indicators
>>
>>15407411
For someone who doesn't like iidx, you play rather similar games. I was expecting you to play rhythm tengoku, osu or something at least a bit more different.
>>
>>15407684
I play a ton of o!m honestly when im not o2jamming.

>>15407568
I wonder if anyone else plays canmusic honestly...
I play on chohon and all my friends are koreans on there, never see english speakers.

>>15407513
Im sorry I don't devote all day every day to jap arcade shit
>>
>>15408093
Ahh, so you're a noodle lover.
>>
>>15408100
Mhmm <3

BMS LN is pretty fun once in awhile too~
>>
>>15407404
I like Chunithm but i hate the fucking clap sound it makes when you hit anything.
>>
>>15407404
there are good non-konami games worth playing

all of those games just happen to be stuck overseas
>>
Hard Clear is cheating.
>>
>>15409416
Literally what
>>
>>15409416
is 69 easier with hard on?
>>
>>15400295
OK this pattern sucks in 2dicks but in pop'n it's fun as hell
>>
>>15409432

I'm saying for the vast majority of songs, it is far easier to maintain at least 2% on HC than 80% on NC. Only on the densest shit at the highest levels of 12s does HC become disadvantageous.

I can clear a few dozen 11s. Turn on HC and I'm sure that number would rise dramatically, even allowing the clearing of 12s.

It's an instantaneous, artificial boost in skill. And therefore is cheating.
>>
>>15409730
It feels kinda that way in L2R since the gauges drain/fill at different rates but there's absolutely no way it's true for IIDX
>>
>>15409730
Bullshit. Hard gauge recovers very slowly and drops fast. It's much harder to HC most songs than to NC them. Are you playing LR2?
>>
>>15407411
hi drace
>>
>>15409812

Nope, IIDX. And the gauge being depleted faster and refilled slower is a mighty fine price to pay for no longer needing 80% to clear.

Hell, in my eyes, that's at least 40-50% of what makes the game so oppressively hard.
>>
So the generally held opinion is that Random is -usually- harder than normal, and makes you a better player.
What about S-Random? Sure if random makes you a better player, s-random makes you a better better player?
>>
>>15410209
No, because S-Random basically throws any given chart design right out the window and replaces it with stream practice.

No trills, no denims, just scales and streams.
>>
>>15410209
>>15410594
It's good for getting acquainted to the more obscure multiple notes.
>>
>>15410683
This. It is often paired with high density on 150 BPM or lower songs once you reach 12s.
>>
Anime expo is coming up. Do they still have an arcade room? ...With IIDX?
>>
>>15410996
no lol
>>
>>15409893
Ahahaha

Unfortunately im not drace
>>
>>15385992
https://vine.co/v/i7OFXuUgg5w late but oh well
>>
>>15411329

Why are they so obsessed with that video? It's not even unique to Daisuke.
>>
>>15410996
>>15411275
Heh. Last time I went was when they had a iidx gold machine there, that was probably almost 10 years ago. What about controllers? I need one for sdvx and dao's us storehouse is out.
>>
>>15410209
in Pop'n most good players start obsessing over S-Random after they beat all of the 50s or there abouts
>>
>>15411915
I have literally no experience with cons and I can tell you they probably don't sell controllers.

Wait for DAO's storehouse to restock or hold out and hope Turbochargers become easy to order again.
>>
>>15412933
>hope Turbochargers become easy to order again.
They are, though.
>>
>>15413053
I'm out of date, sorry.
>>
>>15411329
Don't worry. Senpai noticed you.

Daisuke vines/vids are classic.
>>
>>15410594
>>15410683
>>15410717
Are you guys confusing S-RAN with H-RAN or something.

S-RAN causes the chart to get fucked and makes a bunch of jacks.
>>
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Am I a certified weeb now?
Shouldn't have cut on switches, they are so tight, almost impossible to play with fingers.
>>
>>15419066
Assuming you were like me and got the shit tier QMSRON switches that weigh like 3000 grams, just crack them apart along the seam, remove the spring, clamp it on both ends with pliers, and stretch to 20mm, then reinsert. It's best to stretch to 19mm first then individually test your switches, restretching as necessary.

This gives you about 100g force per microswitch, then throw the springs they give you in the trash because they weigh like 500g each.
>>
>>15419122
Thanks m8 thats exactly what I have. Shame I'll have to resolder everything, already burned one switch while soldering, but I have spares (wanted to build combined iidx/sdvx at first).
>>
>>15419066
That looks good, nice work anon.

Just so you know you using those regular buttons for the white keys might make the higher-tier songs harder for you, since having the big square buttons really helps for one-handing stuff and fast alternating hand jacks
>>
>>15419066
how much did this cost?
>>
>>15419353
Most expensive stuff were encoders (~25$) and buttons (around the same). Arduino Leonardo clone is about 7$. Other miscelannious stuff probably around 15$.
>>
Why the fuck did I play IIDX? I used to play 30-60min daily and couldn't get past the 10-11 wall. I stopped playing and now am back to playing an hour every 2 weeks and I'm not even worse than I was
>>
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>spend time getting gud at stepmania
>now wish that i spent that time getting gud at bms
>>
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>>15421506
>play stepmania for 6 years
>never break 16s
Thread posts: 388
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