Why is the Double Dealing Character cast the most underrated

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>>14541090
The game itself is underrated.
>Great OST
>Fun gimmick
>Flamethrower Marisa
>Great cast with a little western feel
>No Sanae
>Real antagonist and best character

>>14541133
>Great Ost

You can say that again. Tell me, ZUN, tell me why the smallest Touhou get the most metal theme song?

Seija was pretty cool, the rest of the cast was forgettable.

Seiya and Sukuna are the two most underrated characters in Touhou.

Sukuna is the cutest thing to happen since the Scarlet sisters and everyone forgets she exists.
One would think at least Seija would be relevant considering she has two games and is canonically the best danmaku player.

>>14541212
>canonically the best danmaku player.
When will this meme end.
She's cheating in the games.

>>14541090
Forgot they even existed.

>>14541090
> Under-rated cast
> Seija

Although the Tukumogami are just rip-offs of the Primsrivers; who were in themselves not even that popular. Raiko is alright but Benben and Yatu? No.

>>14541090
It's because the music was bad. Kobito of the Shining Needle is the worst Stage 6 boss theme he's ever made.

>>14541363
That might just be you. Didn't a recent japanese poll put it in the top 10 best songs of the franchise?

>>14541370
Not of teh franchise, of 2015

Kagerou is the best character though.

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>You'll never have this kind of shit taste
>>14541363
Feels good

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I think it's partly because they still feel too new. Thinking about them individually, they're all pretty good, except the WHOkumo sisters and WHYko. They just have this feeling of not quite being "real" established characters yet.

Clearly, we must correct this by posting more Bankikki.

>>14541468
Then why are LoLK characters more popular despite being from a newer and bad game?

>>14541363
TD was worse imo.
LoLK wasnt great either, which was a shame, especially due to it being the first time Reisen is playable.

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>>14541508
Good point. I suppose Doremy, Clownpiece, and Hecatia are flashy enough to get extra attention regardless, and Sagume is actually quite good.

There's also the fact that, like every game since SA with the exception of DDC, LoLK is tied to older stuff. Eirin, Reisen, and the Lunarians showing up again helped make it feel like a proper part of the story. On the other hand, the Miracle Mallet incident was totally out of nowhere, and didn't tie into anything else that came before, which made the game feel a bit more like a fan project or something.

I'm also just pulling this all out of my ass, if you couldn't tell, so maybe I'm way off the mark.

>>14541222
I thought to get the true ending, you had to win without any cheats

>>14541090
Propably because most of it's cast badly needs to return in future games or materials. Seija and Shinmyoumaru were somewhat fleshed out and Raiko has enough personality to stand on her own, but the rest got screwed out of showing their real personality by the entire berserk schtick.

Wakasagihime got it the worst as she literally has no personality as of now and not-Prismrivers couldn't be more generic if they tried. I hope they return as soon as possible - the LoLK cast is downright solid and colorful compared to them, so it can wait. Even SAs don't need it as badly, with their well-defined personalities in their debut game.

>>14541607
How's the LoLK cast more defined personality wise?

>>14541090
I liked the game but I didn't like the final boss.
(she's still better than many characters from Th15, though.)

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Not only that but the best EX as well. I have no idea why there aren't more covers of Raiko's theme, that theme is just so sexy with a good pair of headphones, especially at the end with the all the drums in unison, that blows my mind every time

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I love all DDC bosses though, even notbenben.

>>14541623
Not that anon, but like he said, the "berserk schtick" meant that each character only had a short bit of dialogue that didn't even represent what they were really like. In LoLK, depending on who you were playing, you got to see the first four bosses respond to various different situations, and some of the conversations were quite long. Clownpiece is just a piece of shit any way you slice it, and then Junko's whole thing was not having a personality, but even that got showed off pretty well.

Basically, we don't know shit about the early-game bosses in DDC, as they were only in there as examples of "look at all these weak, peaceful youkai who suddenly want to fight". With any luck, they'll appear in the manga, and maybe in a few years we'll get a third Akyuu book with profiles on them, or another newspaper compilation with interviews or something. Until then, there's just not much depth to them.

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I hate Seija Kijin!

>>14541623
Ringo is based, Doremy's smug, Sagume has original gimmick, authority and is behind ULiL incident, Clownpiece takes refuge in audacity and is adorable, Junko has a very strong and controversial personality and interesting backstory and Hecatia is a giant weirdo valley girl who is also extremely strong hell administrator.

At least some of those are bound to make an impact on future canon, whereas DDC could be cut out outright along with ISC and propably no one would bat an eyelid aside from those who main Shinmyoumaru in ULiL.

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>>14541090
ZUN knew well enough that bringing back PMSmaid woud placate the fandom enough to not give a damn about the game proper, so he half-assed it to have more time with his son.

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>>14541090
Ten Desires is the most underrated game

>>14541684
>those who main Shinmyoumaru in ULiL

First off, thank you for remembering her name is not Sukuna.

Its sad that ULiL has not gotten the same amount of attention that Soku did, but maybe if someone actually makes a caster we can finally have some of the good ol' days with some fighter threads.

>>14541714
>half-assed
That's LoLK anon

>>14541133
I don't disagree, but Flamethrower Marisa was probably the biggest disappointment in the game.
I also kind of wish that the "Eastern Youkai with Wester equivalents" thing carried through past stage 3.
Despite those two things, DDC is really a fantastic game. Top 5 among the main shmups, I think, and it was a breath of fresh air after the mostly mediocre religion games.

>>14541714
>half-assed

nice me.me

>>14541549
That just gives you an achievement, you don't get a special ending.

And assuming that she went through and actually beat every card without cheating is like assuming that Reimu resolved every Touhou game with a NMNB Pacifist Lunatic 1cc.

>>14541684
>At least some of those are bound to make an impact on future canon
Yeah, no. Maybe Doremy, if the Dream World is ever relevant again. But think about the kind of impact that the subterranean youkai had on later events; Okuu is kind of recurring, and Koishi was shoehorned into HM, but the rest of them haven't mattered since, only getting brief snippets in SoPM. Now remember that they're right next door to Gensoukyou and don't even harbor any ill will towards the surface dwellers, really, but are just doing their thing underground. The Lunarians and friends make a point of not having anything to do with the lowly, impure Earth, and the residents of Gensoukyou have no desire or reason to go back to the moon. The events of LoLK were a bizarre incident, and not something that's likely to be repeated. The Moon Rabbit grunts, Sagume, and Rage MILF went back to the moon, Clownpiece and Hecatia are in Hell where they belong, and there's no good reason why any of them should show up again.

>>14541738
What maes you think LoLK is half assed and not just a blunder?
Maybe Zun is burned out or out of ideas.

>>14541767
I actually think is the worst windows game but I didn't want to trigger ppl.

>>14541767
>>14541738
I don't know why you would complain about LoLK and DDC when they were miles better than TD, UFO, and MoF.

>>14541773
MoF and UFO had better music.
DDC > TD > LoLK

Seija got a game.

The musical touhous got boring after the Prismriver Sister

>>14541773
no one is complaining about DDC

>>14541746
>Flamethrower Marisa was probably the biggest disappointment in the game.
What? Marisa, with Eight Flaming Trigrams and Dark Spark was disappointing? Are you sure you're not just salty because you couldn't clear it with her?

>>14541767
>Maybe Zun is burned out or out of ideas.
Or maybe he just tried something new and it ended up being a flop, like the UFO system. For fuck's sake, people are so quick to say Touhou is dead.

>>14541780
MoF had some great music, but UFO's music was pretty mediocre. I would say that, overall, even TD had a better ost.
DDC's ost was mostly good, but it was a little weak in a few areas. LoLK, however, had a fantastic ost, one of the best in the series.

>>14541796
I've got my Extra clear with her already, that's all I need for each shottype. I'm just disappointed by its low range and low damage unless you were right up in someone's face. It's a shotgun shottype without the things that make those useful.

>>14541764
Their chance of impact on future canon is low unless we get another Lunarian-related material - which is bound to happen sooner or later. I don't complain about it BECAUSE the DDCs need their return far more.

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>>14541785
Prismrivers > Raiko > Mystia > Benben and Notben > Kyouko

Am I missing anyone?

>>14541764
That would be a good argument if Marisa's good ending hadn't set up major things for the future, and if the manga wasn't currently hinting at more Lunar things.

>>14541738
LoLK made Touhou interesting again and I could easily feel the love and effort he made into the music, characters and story. I'm willing to forgive him for some rushed shit like Junko, considering he had little time to finish it and he took a gamble with it to begin with. Compare DDC, which felt bland and almost soulless to me, like ZUN needed to come up with *something* for a full game in 2013. Bringing Sakuya back made it easier for people to accept it.

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>>14541852
>LoLK made Touhou interesting again
>I selectively forgive this game
>DDC was soulless

>>14541835
So they have the power stone. What, you think Sagume is going to come back to get it? Nah, it's just this generation's version of the underground sun; it'll trigger some future events, but there's no reason those have to be Lunarian-related. Also, manga translations are pretty far behind, so are you sure you're not just seeing the setup/teasers for LoLK?

But is it really?

I'd say stage 2-3 bosses are quite popular for being 2-3 stage bosses.

The 4th stage boss I can agree with is underrated, probably one of the most forgotten bosses.

5th stage boss is not underrated at all, even got a whole game for herself.

6th stage boss is maybe not the most popular boss, but at the same time not forgotten either.

The extra boss is underrated, I think she was quite cool and refreshing but still so underrated.

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>>14541883
OP is just being retarded as usual. If anything, UFO and TD nets the underrated title.

>>14541870
This translation was for a manga that was explicitly post-LoLK.

>>14541546
>>14541090
I see the problem being it has no real theme.

Every Touhou had a clear distinct overarching theme just to point out the more recent games for example.

Like SA had a clear theme, bosses were mostly the most dangerous, forgotten, feared and despised youkai, strong characterizations due to the banter between the different teams. The music was spot on, it all led onto each other for the most part and matched that of a seemingly forgotten world and Utsuho was a concept.

UFO had a clear theme again, bosses were mostly traditional 'classic' youkai coming from some of the oldest myths making up a family of sorts. The story is clear, you're on a new refreshing adventure off on a voyage to a distant (demon) world and the music is airy and clean then morphs eventually to more melancholic. Everything feels linked since bosses show and are mentioned multiple times and are basically one group.

Ten Desires also had a clear setting with a heavy Taoism/Necromancy setting and actually has a really cool musical leitmotif going on that matches the more mystical setting. Bosses end up leading onto each other and again are one big alliance whilst being distinctive in their personalities.

Now DDC? It's plain random. Half the game you are wandering around aimlessly, thematically the bosses make no sense. Half of them have a clear Western youkai influence then suddenly Tsukomogami/Amanojaku. You can't even get a reading on most of the characters either because the dialogue is shorter and snappier than normal and most of them never show up again in game or in the endings. Seija and Shinmyoumaru are the only characters even relevant to the story the Tsukomogami being merely byproducts it makes them feel like fillers.

>>14541757
Everything that's possible in-game is canon, including B 1cc pacifist lunatic runs.

>>14541891
If you're talking about Scrollery ch34, you should know better than to think anything serious will come of it. It's going to end up being some misunderstanding or Nue messing around again, I guarantee it.

>>14541133
>Sakuya

>>14542032
I agree with you for the most part. It really doesn't help that DDC doesn't look like it'll be part of any sort of arc.

>>14541684
>Junko
>personality

>>14542225
I think it could be said DDC was its own arc with ISC.

What DDC was lacking in, I feel like ISC tried to rectify it by giving more insight into Seija, as well as at least giving a follow-up appearance with dialogue to Yatsuhashi, Kagerou and Raiko and tying the two different sides of DDC together. Anyway, I'd think ISC was always planned to be a companion/sequel/epilogue to DDC.

Also, while it doesn't tie in lore or story-wise like LoLK, I feel like its goal was to invoke the feel of older games with the return to the fore of youkai-based bosses and incidents. Post-religious war games are an intended callback to the Touhou of old.

Is DDC-ISC something like filler, sure. But in a comic or anime context or something, it would be something of a desperately needed breather between the religious arc and whatever ULIL-LOLK and future games might be.

It would probably help its reputation if everyone but Shinmyoumaru weren't forgotten in the comics. I actually thought Raiko and the Tsukumos might hook up with Mamizou, but nothing doing.

That said, like others have said, DDC is unfocused to the point of seeming like two different games. Arguably, though, 1-4 is just like the early investigative stages of other games like PCB or IN with similar low level bosses who basically don't have anything to do with the incident.

Wolfu is cute as HELL
Seija is great
tinyhou is ok

Rest are trash

>>14542564
What even happened after Seija won in ISC? Wouldn't she be the new ruler of Gensokyo? Isn't her winning cannon?

>>14547493
Shes still probably on the run.

>>14547493
The premise of ISC was that a reward was being offered for Seija's capture. By winning against every card, she escapes, and nobody catches her. Afterward, she runs away and has no friends. That's all we know (because Gold Rush isn't canon).

>>14547563
Well, we know at least one more thing. With Seija canonically escaping everyone, she was not forced to give back the cheat items.

>>14543880
Waggysaggy is the cutest I'll fight you

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>>14548459
agreed

>>14547563
Why would she even need to escape at that point? Where would she go? Wasn't her plan to take over fucking Gensokyo?

ZUN was passing thought a mental block during the development of DDC, ISC and GR, that's why he no longer acknowledges them, the fans don't care, and the whole arc will probably at some point get retconned out of the official canon.

>>14548752
Her plan in DDC was more like, 'invert society and incite a revolution of weak youkai', right? But she had Shinmyoumaru (and the Miracle Mallet) on her side, and was able to influence all those low-tier youkai as a result. After that incident got wrapped up, everyone turned against her. There's no way that plan was coming to fruition anymore, so she settled with just running away.

As for why being the best at dodging spell cards doesn't make her 'the ruler of Gensoukyou', well, just look at Reimu. She canonically plays every match until she wins, and can clear every spell card without even firing a shot anyway, so why does anyone but her hold any power in Gensoukyou? It's more complicated than that.

>>14547563
She also had to exhaust all those mystical 'cheat items' in order to survive that ordeal. Chances are she has nothing left so if it happens again she'd be on her own. She may have won but she's effectively running on fumes now.

>>14549247
>so why does anyone but her hold any power in Gensoukyou
Wasn't the Hakurei shrine basically the marker for the Gensokyo border though? That kind of gives Reimu a free pass.

I honestly think a big part of it is Benben and whoever her sister is. They're so completely forgettable, which is really bad for a stage 4 slot.

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>>14548808
That is one of the most stupid things I've ever read.

>>14549247
It was made a point that she was only manipulating Shinmyomaru and the rest of low-tier Youkai into becoming her allies, it's not like she really cared about them, in fact when they ultimately confront her in ISC she doesn't give a fuck, one would think that if her goal was to make those same Youkai the new rulers of Gensokyo she would have given up at that point, knowing nobody follows her ideals anymore.
Her whole plan from the beginning was to take over, or make everyone in Gensokyo feel uncomfortable and miserable, or whatever.
But now she's running away from everyone for no real reason?

>>14549247
You could argue Reimu can take over Gensokyo and declare herself the empress after beating the shit out of everyone at danmaku if she wanted, but she obviously doesn't want that. The point being that she CAN do it, but decides not to.

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>>14549320
She's running away from everyone because they all want a piece of dat amanojaku. I guess ZUN will wrap things up in other media or just forget about it.

>>14549333
The spellcard system was meant to make everything fair for humans and youkais because without it, I guess the youkais will overpower most of humanity in Gensokyo in no time at all. I don't think anyone can become a ruler under the system since everyone who participates in it is given a chance to win at some point.

Seija's incident in ISC is just a weird case for the spellcard system though.

>>14549281
Also you don't actually get pointed on your way till the end of Stage 4, even in PCB that has already happened by Stage 3.

>>14549320
Seija is a dirty left wing liberal.

>>14550763
Seija is more the the third wheel conspiring the fall of the hierarchy.

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I want seija to be my gf, so I'll tell her I hate her to make her love me!

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>>14551588
I'm pretty sure Seija is incompatible with any kind of person.

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>>14551608
She is pretty compatible with Shinmyoumaru, so there is a chance, you know

>>14552239
What makes you say that? Its already known Seija was just using Shinmyoumaru for her miracle mallet and nothing else. She's probably compatible with Sagume though, considering they're both amanojakus.

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>>14552279
Geez... In this case... I guess I'll have to trick her into staying with me somehow...

>>14552279
Sagume is way more of an amanojaku, and she isn't a little cunt. In a way you could say she's the actual opposite of Seija.

>>14552827
>she isn't a little cunt.
She is a major cunning and deceiving bitch plotting in the shadows, not to mention she is a Lunarian which makes her an automatic level-10 bitch.

>>14551588
There aren't nearly enough worst character hate threads, even fucking Sekibanki gets more attention.

>>14552809
sauce please, google doesn't help

>>14551588
>>14551608

This. If someone loved her it would just make her suffer and want to destroy it or at least distort and twist it to suit her character. I don't think there's much room for vanilla and tsundere with her. If someone said they "hate" her she'll just see through it. She's incapable of giving or receiving love. The only way she might ever "love" someone is if it made them miserable instead and only until they accepted or started enjoying it at which point their usefulness to her would end.

>>14556630
>>14551608

s-stop! i just want her to be my friend, at least! w-why cant she just be my friend?? ;_;

>>14552809
I don't think seija does the opposite of what people tell her to do. I think she does the opposite of what is actually there.
So lying wouldn't work.
Sagume would need to say that the person love seija, and then it would be false, so then seija would be happy with the person.
Unfortunately, this would be miserable for the recipient of sagume's lie.

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>>14556704
Seija is unfriendable in any way. Her route does not exist. I repeat, her route does not exist.

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ITT: edgy teenagers putting Seija's ability in the absolute

>>14556862
Absolute in terms of? If we're talking about powers hers is pretty weak and just annoying, like the three fairies' abilities. If we're talking about dating and befriending Seija then AUTISM.

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Tiny 2hu is very cute.

The Shining Needle Castle Sinking in the Air is one of best Touhou themes ever
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8xtmqN6jpc

>>14556873
>pretty weak and just annoying, like the three fairies' abilities
You call flipping the entire universe around weak?

>>14562106
You're being retarded. Her power is limited to a degree. If her power to flip thing transcends up to the point of flipping the universe, she wouldn't even need the miracle mallet to begin with.