Why has Portugal been so evil for much of history

>>78928364
How so

Objectively untrue

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>>78929333
>started the atlantic slave trade
>created brazil/pardos
>allied with the eternal anglo
>pain in the ass for based napoleon to conquer
>slaughtering innocent moors because of muh reconquista
>literally the only country to have three official days of mouring after hitler killed himself

>>78929454
Only a diaposta could know about the Hitler thing, and honestly we truly are the stuff made of nightmares

>>78929454
>>literally the only country to have three official days of mouring after hitler killed himself
Ireland sent a letter of condolences to Germany on the loss of their leader and multiple politicians met with the German ambassadors to express their grief at his death.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_neutrality_during_World_War_II#Condolences_on_Hitler.27s_death

>>78929553
Close, but we diferent of national mourn, and we were "fascist".

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>>78929701
>[Salazar] didn't look like a regular dictator. Rather, he appeared a modest, quiet, and highly intelligent gentleman and scholar...literally dragged from a professorial chair of political economy in the venerable University of Coimbra a dozen years previously in order to straighten out Portugal's finances, and that his almost miraculous success in this respect had led to the thrusting upon him of other major functions, including those of foreign minister and constitution-maker.
>Salazar
>not GOAT

>>78929553

Its diplomatic protocol

>>78929936
Yet only Ireland and the fascists Spain & Portugal did it. Not even the neutral Swedes and Swiss did.

>>78930023

...so?

>>78930078
The American acted like only Portugal treated Hitler's death as a tragedy when De Valera seemed more than happy to appropriately mourn Hitler.

>>78929891
Salaza is one of my hero's, right there next to Nuno Álvares Pereira and Afonso Albuquerque.


Hes ONLY faults were being to modest and the lost of indian colonys is on him! My grandfather was in a military jail for 9 years on Goa

>>78930210
>the lost of indian colonys is on him!
He ordered the General there to fight to the last man and never surrender under any circumstances. When General Vassalo e Silva surrendered to the poos he exiled him.

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U wot m8

>>78930210
>having a fascist as hero

>>78930653
>The Portuguese literary historian António José Saraiva, a communist and a fierce lifelong political opponent of Salazar, claimed that one who reads Salazar's Speeches and Notes is overwhelmed by the clarity and conciseness of style, the most perfect and captivating doctrinal prose that exists in Portuguese, underscored by a powerful emotional rhythm. According to Saraiva, Salazar's prose deserves a prominent place in the history of Portuguese literature, and only political barriers have deprived it of the place. Saraiva says it is written with the clarity of the great prose of the 17th century, cleansed of all the distractions and sloppiness that often obscures the prose of the Portuguese scholars.

>even leftist historians recognize "that industrial growth throughout the 1950s and 1960s was generally quite positive and, given Portugal's basic problems, could probably have only been improved slightly by a more creatively liberal regime

>In 1960, Portugal's per capita GDP was only 38 per cent of the European Community (EC-12) average; by the end of Salazar's rule in 1968, it had risen to 48 per cent; and in 1973, under the leadership of Marcelo Caetano, Portugal's per capita GDP had reached 56.4 per cent of the EC-12 average.

>Under the First Republic, literacy levels in children aged 7 to 14 registered a modest increase from 26 per cent in 1911 to 33 per cent in 1930. Under the Estado Novo, literacy levels in children aged 7 to 14 increased to 56 per cent in 1940, 77 per cent in 1950 and 97 per cent in 1960.

Salazar did nothing wrong

>>78929498
I did.
But that's cause I was reading about fascist Poortugal the other day

>>78930653
To be fair Salizar directly saved ~4,000-5,000 people from being sent to concentration camps by hiding them in the Embassy in Hungary, or giving them false documents to leave the countries.

He was a good guy.

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nice to see not everybody believes the communist lies about this great man

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>>78930883
If you read about him in an objective way he's not that bad at all. It's just the "fascist" label that makes everyone assume he was just about gassing people in concentration camps.

>>78930883
Is he actually loved in Portugal or is just liked amongst the older generation

Portugal NO!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMvpZ3UCw8c

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Portugal wasn't evil! Thanks Portugal for kick the dirty Dutchmen ass from here.

The only mistake made by Portugal was to give independence to these monkeys.

>>78930946
he had to be demonised or else risk a coup against the democratic regime, the 3rd republic (current) had a terrible start, with very debatable measures being taken with little support (people in high positions weren't used to question authority).

The most notorious example is our entrance in EU, where the prime minister sent the letter to brussels, and then invited economists to hear their judgement on the case (most argued against, since economy was destroyed by the chaos). At the end of the hearing, he informed them, and later, the whole country we were to get into EEC

>>78931467
people avoid talking about him, it's still an issue we haven't dealt with (mostly because it could kill the 3rd republic in its early days)

still, you see all kinds of extremes about the man: on one hand, commies have a stroke everytime you summon his memory, on the other you have people in his hometown worshiping him out in the open

>>78932021
What bad did he do?
I don't see anything wrong with him, besides the fact that he was a dictator? He seems like a fairly benevolent dictator though?

I'd assume the majority of the Communist anti-Salazar propaganda was because he was in NATO, not because he was a fascie?

>>78932134
he did nothing wrong, almost literaly, but he did some bad stuff.
>drained the interior even more, and by accident triggered a huge wave of imigrants to france
>absolutely neglected the cities other than lisboa
>injected millions in luanda and lourenço marques just to make the above point even worse
>made changes to historical monuments, for the sole purpose of looking more "open", like other places in europe (which did the same mistake long before)
>gave way too much power to cosmopolitan elites (guess who overthrown his successor and sent us down our socialist today)
and the worst of all, the one behind many of his wrongs
>he unironically believed a dictatorship could outlive its strongman
even Franco knew this, and he wasn't half as educated as Salazar was.

still, he's the best polititian we had in our republic

>there are tugas who still like Salazar

kek
No wonder your country is so fucked, considering Western Europe standards.

>>78931467
you can have a discussion about him with people for and against him without anyone getting mad

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What do Portugese think about this guy?
He seems to me like a nice fellow who BTFO the corrupt church and spread the ideas of enlightenment in Portugal

>>78933651
liked the chosen people too much but he did lots of good things for the country

>>78931527
"Não sou racista.... mas deportar todas as pretos e brancos para brancos"

>>78933651
let's see
>persecuted inocent people to further his lord's power (and his own by proxy).
>Blew the tresury in an overpriced project that nowhere else in the world would even be on the table
>forced relocations to acomplish the previous, stunting the gowth around the country without really having much in return
>did not invest in the economy, his gains were mostly from land expropriated
>ignored the first steps of industrialization

he did expell the jewsuits and generaly promoted the good use of the portuguese language. But the rest were mostly centralist reforms, taking power from local elites and handing it to the incapable king (which was the same as giving it to himself), in a slow and steady process (after the initial shockwave he did by kicking the jesuits and framing the tavoras)

>>78929454
>moors
>being innocent

>>78933266
why do you leave out the part about all the censorship that happened under his regime? People were put in jails for writing books and opposing him.

>>78935039
communist propaganda

>>78935039
that is bound to happen in any autocracy, not his fault directly. Even if he wanted them to be free, bureaucratic pressure would force him to stamp out freedom of expression.
Let's not forget that many of the famous student protestors never got in trouble, not because of state leniency, but because their (powerful) parents would intervene in their behalf. After all, not everyone could pursue higher education (probably the most corrupt sector of the regime, I'd say).

On the other hand, all those I mentioned are his to blame, he choose to do all of that and he was aware (to a degree, of course) of the consequences.

>>78938482
no, he did create a state of terror. PIDE was incompetent as fuck (as stated by various reports of the time, namely from CIA), so they had to scare people during the 60's. PCP was acting freely, despite so many efforts to cull them - the truth is they had infiltered PIDE and were passing info to their comrades.

>>78934257
>taking power from local elites and handing it to the incapable king (which was the same as giving it to himself),

Is this the reason why Portugal became a republic?

>>78938667
no, but it did help that both "noble" and afluent families became impotent politicaly.

we became a republic because of how pathetic the monarchy became, even the peasants had lost the loyalty to them.
We had a civil war, pretty nasty one too. Not only because it was bloody but because former friends and familly members fought against eachother, even the leaders were brothers

>>78939154
Korea's original monarchy collapsed because kings became too incompetent generation after generation.

>>78930230
>When General Vassalo e Silva surrendered
What else was he meant to do lmao

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>>78930653
He saved us from WWII - while the worst Portuguese president was born in Rio de Janeiro and sacrificed Portuguese people to be gassed by Germans in Flanders. LEftists and communists recognised that. Sorry for being indoctrinated to think that and to think every ruler at right of bernie Sanders is a fascist. New State was authoritarian right-wing regime not truly a fascist regime. He even hated Portuguese fascists

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Rol%C3%A3o_Preto
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Syndicalists_(Portugal)

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>>78928364
I like portugese posters. they are witty and knowledgeable. same with spain.

>>78939457
to die in there.
diplomacy is a strage world

Why are 4chan subhumans so willing to overlook fascists for being shit but go the complete opposite end for communists?
>muh communism is shit
So is fascism.

>>78939579
Ayy lmao they shouldn't have been there from the beginning.

>>78939629
the spanish empire was at its peak using facism. Every communist country has been a desolate shithole

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>>78939706
Given by how shit they were to the natives it's only due to their low numbers that there weren't constant revolts.

>>78933266
His sucessor was overthrown by disgruntled soldiers due to unfair recruitment and promotion practices (people closest to the regime were put in safer, better paid positions within the military) and the human toll of the colonial war (it would've been our 'Nam if we cared about our vets).

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>>78939534 | >>78933457 ! >>78930653
Brazilians BTFO

>>78939832
>muh harsh treatment of natives

it was just banter

>>78939979
Just because you're ruling over somebody doesn't mean you should be unnecessarily cruel.
Spain along with Belgium are the only two countries I honestly believe deserve to be bred out by their ex-colonial subjects.

>>78940080
>WAAH WAAH they were mean to us 500 years ago :^(((((((

its not the spanish fault the natives couldn't take the banter

>>78928364
being the dog of an evil nation (Britain) makes you evil even if you dont notice it

>>78940242
:^)

>>78940080
Can you tell how you can compare the morals of 16h century with 21st century?

How do I as descendant of serfs/farmers in 16th century in mainland Europe have to do with king and nobles decisions in 16th century? Portugal ain't the same country and who makes the decision are the elites? Do you think Portuguese were forced conscripted in 60/70's because they wanted to do and to die in some jungle and pantano in Portuguese Africa. Portuguese were slaves

>"The blacks, those magnificent examples of the African race who have maintained their racial purity thanks to their lack of an affinity with bathing, have seen their territory invaded by a new kind of SLAVE: the Portuguese.

What crimes ANZAC did to the proto - Turks in WWI? Why were you killing native people in Gallipoli? Because you wanted?

>>78939881
the soldiers were pawns, Antonio Spinola, one of the "leaders" of the coup (and famous for giving a copy of his book to Marcelo Caetano, signaling him he was done for) came forward saying they were played all along.
The real minds of the revolution were the ones killing PREC during verão quente crisis, the ones that avoided persecussion during the rein of terror (1974-1975) and became rich thanks to it.

>>78940080
Goa was the highest GDP province in india at the time of conquest. Goans had the same rights portuguese people had (which weren't that many) and they even had their own high class (which promply moved to portugal after conquest). After the conquest, many goans started migrating to portugal since Goa since they still were recognised as portuguese citizens, our current prime-minister is Goan for instance.

The worst we did to Goa, was before we owned the place.
It was during the war against the turk-mamluk-venice coalition in the indian ocean and Goa allied itself with the turks. After a turkish comander did a very disrespectful act on a portuguese comandant, Goa offered safe port and protection - the portuguese viceroy took the main fleet and razed the place to nothing, massacred the turks for their insolence and built a fort over the remains.
since then Goa was under our control.

There was a series of hindu massacre in Goa (by converts) under portuguese rule, and there is no excuse for that.

>>78929454
>innocent
>moors

>>78940410
>The worst we did to Goa,
And Portuguese Inquisition in Goa.

But controlled de facto it was the priests and inquisitors that were more fervous than the other corners in Portuguese Empire. Who wanted Inquisition was the Pope and King had to comply or else he would lose the trade monopoly in India. and some Hindu temples and Muslim.

>>78940490
oh shit, I didn't knew those were "state sponsored".
my bad

>>78940313
>>78940410
chill out lad I was kidding

>>78939629
True fascism has never been tried

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>>78929454
>slaughtering innocent moors because of muh reconquista
>implying Portuguese people aren't the rightful heirs of the Rashidun and Umayyad Caliphate

>>78929454
Norte looks like Benicio del Torro.

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Napoleon once wrote

"Those northern Portuguese, those damn Suebi-Celts, we should have slaughtered them all"

Frederick the Great

"I only allied myself with Portugal and Britain because of the Northern Portuguese (..) they are vicious, they drown their enemies in vinho verde and pig entrails"

Erik the Red

"Our ships keep vanishing in the coast of Portugal and Galiza and we have can't save them. The warriors from those areas are just to savage"

J. Robert Oppenheimer

"I only hope the US uses the Atom Bomb and refrains from using the super weapon the CIA wants (..) to unleashed the Northern Portuguese in Japan would cause unparalleled slaughter"

Adolf Hitler

"Most of our master race immigrated in the middle ages to Northern Portugal. If only we could recover the best of our folk for our racial stock"

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>>78944147
sounds historically accurate

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>>78944147
>>78945029

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>>78944147

>>78944147
>>78945029
>>78945553
Is any of this real or nah? I've never heard about the Northern portugese

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>>78945804

All true.

They are Celto-Germanic-Med, a dangerous combination of savages.

>>78940080
>>78939832
>falling for the Anglo lies

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Legend

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>>78945029 | >>78944147
Conimbricense here, thanks for rebelling against the Kebab Fist of Lisbon Moorish and centralist oppression and protecting the rest of the county,

>>78944147
Nappy was right desu

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>>78944147

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>>78946021
You're welcome.

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>>78945951
>this isn't reality

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>>78946862
>Anything below Coimbra

Nope.

>>78947020
a true meme country

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Braga is rightful galician clay.

>>78947806

It's to late to save us.

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>>78947893
the independance of the condado portucalense seems like a good example of hispanic incompetence. united we would've been stronger. north portugal is closer to galicia than to the rest of PT probably

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>>78946443
abaixo do douro é tudo mouro

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>>78944147