Is it true that South American schools teach people to hate him?

>>78405265
I don't think they do, we are neutral towards Columbus over here.

>>78405265
m8 you wut?
He was a greath figure here teach us that he just was another euro explorer
>Also
His name is Cristóbal Colón

>>78405302
I heard he's a lot worse in Colombia and the other places he actually visited

>>78405353
Most schools in the US teach there lesson on him straight out of Hoawrd Zinn. It's rather strange because I live in an area with a major Italian presence, so there's statues of him everywhere.

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>>78405265
Didn't he do despicable things to Natives that even some Natvies committed suicide because of it?

>>78405402
I assumed that South Americans just threw shit and sacrificed Humans before Columbus arrived; not sure what they have to complain about

>>78405333
that's a funny way of writing Kolombusz Kristóf

>>78405420
That doesn't really give you permission to do it tho

Even his crew were disgusted from his acts

>>78405519
Yeah, he was especially cruel, even for a conquistador. The Taino also didn't do anything to deserve it.

>>78405519
Why not? A means to an end to bring civilisation to the barbarians

>>78405583
It's hard to say that the Aztec, Maya, Inca, etc. didn't have civilization.

Even though they were civilized in a a sense, the Aztec were still the least sympathetic.

>>78405613
>Sympathising with people who made Human sacrifices
If you were to walk into their world, what's a bet they tie you to a table and remove your heart in the name of their God?

>>78405265
Of course not, he wasn't even a conquistador. In my school we were taught that Ferdinand was a cunt for not giving him his welfare when he was old.

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>>78405583
Because of it a lot people died

Their sacrifices weren't in that high scale of casualties compared to European colonization

>>78405265
He is Japanese

>>78405583
>little australia thinks he knows about native american culture
You need to learn about your own country first. Study about the Maori culture, learn their language or something.

>>78405742
>A lot of people died
A lot of people died during many times throughout history. Lot's of people die to keep ISIS out of your country; if civilisation isn't important to you then you should let the goatfuckers in yourself

>>78405265
school
public=yes
private=no

>>78405265
Lmao wtf are you smoking?

>>78405651
I said the ones most notorious for sacrificing were the least sympathetic.

How many examples are there of Europeans being sacrificed?

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>>78405265
No, we are white and we embrace our white heritance. Fuck Cristina Kirchner for what she did to this statue.

>>78405265
>mfw new worlder scum try to bash our national hero

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSlX36QP_po

Conquistadors did literally nothing wrong.

>>78405847
I know that a vast majority of the population of South America was killed. You're more European than not
>>78405948
Europeans being sacrificed by Americans? Not many, because they put an end to it by force

>>78405651
Nah, they were legit civilized regardless of their religion, Moctezuma invited Cortés into his own home even after he'd gone to war with the Tlaxcaltecs and the Totonacs, sure it largely was a political move but he did mean to know his enemy and it appears he did establish a genuine friendship with Cortés.

The Spaniards weren't exactly model guests, they betrayed the Aztecs during one of their religious festivals despite the Aztecs adhering to the ban on human sacrifice they had agreed to with the Spaniards. This unprovoked massacre is what eventually led to the events of La Noche Triste, the Spaniards fleeing Tenochtitlán, those who didn't drown to the lake holding on to the gold they had stolen.

History is not made of ifs, the Aztec behaved as civilized peoples and went out of their way to acomodate Europeans when they first found them.

>>78405651
we can't judge them when we can't don't live in the myth world view

the death-life cycle is exceptionally important to the aztec culture

we see sacrifice as bad because of how the renaissance and greeks established people

in aztec and mayan society people are just the ultimate produce of life, and if life needs sustenance, ie, rain, you spill the proverbial essence, just as you would use very precious water to water your plants

and because they had a natural disaster/eclipse as a part of their foundation myth, it becomes urgent

and no they don't just sacrifice anyone, they were pretty specific, it is not just some throwaway for prisoners, they sacrificed their own first born

>>78405993
So you're telling me when meeting with a force who could crush him empire in an instant he decided to play nice? Surely he was just an honourable and trustworthy man

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>>78405955

>>78406063
Cortez only won because he had the support of all the surrounding tribes.

>>78406104
And?

>>78406063
The Spaniards by themselves were no threat to the Aztecs, they were badly outnumbered. It was Cortés using those same Tlaxcaltec and Totonaca that allowed him a chance to use the advantages Europeans had. That and the smallpox epidemic no one was counting on.

Sure, Moctezuma did not underestimate Cortés and viceversa, the Spaniards did not arrive as a peaceful embassy however and it was them who started hostilities against the natives.

>>78405875
>if civilisation isn't important to you then you should let the goatfuckers in yourself

What makes you think that South Americans didn't have civilization?

Sure they may be barbaric in a way but over time they would have been less barbaric as a lot of civilization did

>>78406138
>It was Cortés using those same Tlaxcaltec and Totonaca that allowed him a chance to use the advantages Europeans had.
So a superior European mind pulling the strings of the natives to his will? Just proving my point of how useless they were
>>78406143
Depends on how you define civilisation. I don't deny they had no state or culture, but civilised is the last word I would use to describe them. They perhaps would have grown over time, but a push in the right direction helped

>>78406211
Latin America really shows the best traits of the West in action, it should be a case study on how everything that West touches become instantly better.

>>78406304
Well it's not like you could have been worse. And maybe had the Europeans been allowed to stay things would have turned out better. You can't complain about a half cooked meal tasting like shit

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>>78406211
Seriously man, it had nothing to do with Cortés being European, he was an exceptional man I'll grant you, and certainly a brave one, but a lot of it came down to others, he would have never succeeded without Malintzin his lover/translator and quite a bit of it was also chance. The man was ruthless, he betrayed his allies and committed enough crimes against the natives he could not be considered an honorable man in Spain at the time. If you want to go down the might makes right route then you should abandon the pretense this is about which persons can be considered civilized.

On that topic
http://www.mexicolore.co.uk/aztecs/home/clean-aztecs-dirty-spaniards

>>78406348
>And maybe had the Europeans been allowed to stay
where did they go?

>>78406304
Oh man, I seriously hope you're not Mexican because that's some next tier brown nosing if you are

>>78406376
Napoleon forced them out in the 19th century.
>>78406366
I'm not referring to race if that's what you think, I'm referring to culture. If the Romans had sailed to South American in their time somehow and incorporated them that long ago it would be just as great as the height of Europe if not more

>>78405955
lol @ this whole post

>>78406460
The Romans would have probably been slaughtered by the natives.

>>78406592
A professional standing army will seasoned military leaders would be slaughtered by irregulars?

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>>78406460
Did you read the article? I think it speaks volumes regarding culture. There weren't abos man, they had a written language and math, a universal education system which was compulsory as well as something similar to higher education, every man had a clean home, they had roads and a post system that allowed them to have fresh fish from Veracruz to be brought into Mexico City every day, etc.

The Spaniards may have destroyed most of Tenochtitlán during their siege, but most of the surrounding towns remained intact and the infrastructure of the Aztec empire was what they used to further their conquests and send vast amounts of wealth to Europe, Mexico has been the world's largest producer for a silver for half a millenia, it remains so today.

Yes, they were bronze age peoples, they didn't have the same headstart as the old world.

>>78406649
And what head start did the old world have?

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>>78406648
The Romans could have never invaded in numbers large enough. And they would not have found irregulars, Mesoamerican civilizations had a very evolved warrior culture. The Aztecs were the height of that, they had a sense of military discipline and rank, they attacked in formations, they knew military strategy.

>>78406649
Disease resistance, animals of labour, the wheel.

Also it was easier for those things to spread because of Europe/Asia's relatively flat geography as opposed to Mesoamerica's mountainous geography

This is why Central America is a bunch of different countries as opposed to just 1 big one. There was no feeling of unification because travel was hindered because of thicc jungle and mountainous terrain

>>78406731
Sure they were trained well, sure they were fierce, but no standing army is the sign of disorganised enemy. The Gauls were fierce warriors too and their entire country was taken down by a man whom Rome didn't even want to help in war. Why go to such lengths to defend the people you've conquered?

>>78406696
Something like 100k years of behaviourally modern humans in the middle east? Summer and Egypt laid the foundations upon which later civilizations like the Phoenicians and the Greeks built from.

In Mesoamerica they had to start from scratch something like 12k years ago and they didn't have the advantages of cultural transmision across Eurasia, just what they could do on their own.

Also there were no draft animals in North America.

>>78406211
Remember this is the same time Europeans were burning witches. They were hardly civilized themselves.

>>78406874
And I never said I condoned everything they did. But one side is always better than the other

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>>78406806
They had a standing army, wtf are you talking about? Orders like Eagle and Jaguar were permanent. That commoners were drafted for wars doesn't mean they did not have profesionals, Aztecs came up with the flower wars so they could be in a near permanent state of warfare.

>>78406805
They had the wheel, they used the spindle whorl and the potter's wheel. they even had toys which demonstrate they knew how to use wheels for transport. Mind you in an environment in which they could use trajineras (flat bottomed canoes) to transport goods and having no draft animals it wasn't necessary for them, they knew how to use large logs as wheels when trans´porting large pieces of stone for their construction projects.

>>78406907
Not better, in the old world it wasn't the most advanced peoples that won wars but those who specialized in warfare, take the Mongols as an example of peoples who conquered civilizations far more advanced than them.

>>78406930
The Eagle and Jaguar were not a standing army of the state. The Aztecs never had a true standing army. A permanent state of war is not something to be desired by any decent country either

>>78406981
The Mongols conquered empty land in central Asia and a dying Muslim sultanate. If they didn't have such backward laws they would have maybe actually pushed into Europe a far amount. Unless of course you consider China of the 12th and 13th century to really be advanced

>>78406930
Im on your side. I meant >>78406805 for >>78406696

Transport animals/animals of burden and wheels for transportation still would have given them a better advantage than canoes

>>78406992
They were professional orders composed of nobility, not all that different from the feudal system in Europe. And don't start with morality regarding war and it's organization, you just keep moving the posts here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_warfare#Organization

>>78407098
I know what the Jaguar and Eagle are and my point still stands that they aren't a standing army, had you had asked me about Feudalism I would have said the same thing so your point is irrelevant

Seriously people believe he is a meh figure? His mentality is america mentality itself: become a major figure through braveness and ignorance and disrespect of european Authority

>>78407098
I'm also not talking about the morality of war. I'm talking about men dying for no reason. It's wasteful

>>78407045
What about the Turks and the Byzantines? Or the Muslims in their initial expansion? Or Romans falling to Germanic tribes? It's easy to talk about civilized empires being decadent in hindsight and early 20th century historians evolved this into a theory (try reading nonfiction by HG Wells) by which peoples became "softer" as they became sedentary, then ripe to be conquered by nomadic peoples which in turn asimilated into the conquered to continue the cycle.

And medieval China was certainly advanced, much the same as Persians and Indians and other peoples who fell to the Khans.

>>78407061
Oh, my bad, yes I absolutely agree.

>>78407193
You think that the Mongols really conquered them? Answer me these questions. What language do they speak in Mexico? And what language do they speak in Turkey? Tell me who the real conqueror is

>>78405265
Well, he was a cunt and the castillian crown judged him for his crimes in america

>>78407169
They were not killed in war, the flower wars to take prisoners

>>78407115
So if Medieval Europe isn't civilized to you we are dealing with an impossible standard, as I have explained the old world had a head start, what did you expect? Flying ships? They were, by bronze age standards, an extraordinary civilization, that's what I'm saying. My nation is what remains of them and I'll grant we are as much European, if not more so, at this point. Still, it doesn't take away from the fact it was a unique civilization, Only a handful of peoples in history have come up with a writing system on their own, Mesoamerica was one of those.

>>78406874
Europeans burned witches. Spanish Inquisition was extremely skeptic about their existence.

>>78405333
*Kristoff Kolumbus

>>78407045
>If they didn't have such backward laws they would have maybe actually pushed into Europe a far amount.
Didn't Genghis die right when they started pushing into Europe?

>>78406874
That was mainly a Germanic thing. The closet Spain got to it was the Basque trials
>>78407308
Sure it was unique, nobody denies that. Unique doesn't mean it was the right way to go along. Tell me, honestly; would your life be better if the Europeans hadn't discovered America, had you been left alone to evolve your own way instead?

>>78407363
Yes, my point. They dropped everything despite being successful and went all the way back to the middle of fucking nothing to name a successor

>>78407233
>>78407193
>You think that the Mongols really conquered them? Answer me these questions. What language do they speak in Mexico? And what language do they speak in Turkey? Tell me who the real conqueror is

The Mongols didn't give a shit about imposing their culture on people of other civilizations. As long as you submit and paid tax to them they accepted your way of life.

Exceptions go to people living in direct Mongol territory. Hui Muslims and Persian immigrants were discriminated against because the Mongols thought they should adhere to their way of live for things like halal butchery and other shit.

>>78407233
Dude I'm a white guy, do you want me to tell you I'm proud of what my ancestors did? I'm not. I'm not ashamed either, we are talking history, but being a Mexican means I'm as much a heir to the Aztecs as to the Spaniards, maybe even more so. So who won? Because at this point of history I see both as equally valuable, except my flag and my identity are based on the Aztec one and my loyalty is to this land and its people.

It isn't as balck and white as you're making it out to be.

He was a retarded fag, if not for the Pinzon brothers they would have never arrived to the Americas.

>>78407443
I've lived in New Zealand my whole life just as my parents and grand parents but I never once claimed to be Maori. You're picking the side of dead men in the ground

>>78407448
and he died convinced that he arrived to asia

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>>78407487
>I've lived in New Zealand my whole life just as my parents and grand parents but I never once claimed to be Maori.
No but they're your countrymen and you should appreciate them and their culture.
You're (probably) Anglo-Saxon in ethnicity and they're Maori but you're both New Zealanders at the end of the day.

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>>78407370
The world I live in would not exist without the conquest, it isn't about what would have been better but leaving out my own personal stake on this it would have been really cool if a truly Aztec nation existed in the world today, much like the Japanese. As it is Mexico has contributed a lot to the world from products such as tomato, chocolate or vanilla to a culture which is distinctively unique. what world would it have been had Aztecs been treated better and allowed to evolve on their own.

I always wondered, how did the conquistadors communicate with the aztecs if they spoke different languages

>>78407448
Which we had already colonized 1000 years prior using magic rocks because it's literally impossible to go west and not run into the Americas.

While polynesians had been sailing in a straight line between 10,000 islands the size of small thimbles using coconut trees for the past 3000 years.

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>>78405265
is even worst with thes two

>>78407430
>Yes, my point. They dropped everything despite being successful and went all the way back to the middle of fucking nothing to name a successor
It was Genghis that kept them united. It was Subutai's tactics that won the majority of their battles but without Temujin holding everything together there was nothing apart from a bunch of bickering backward tribes.

>>78407552
Says the fucking Aussie. Every Aussie I've ever met has fucking hated Abos
>>78407613
I don't really see your point. My point is that their rules stated that they needed to abandon everything despite the fact they were doing so well, and convene together back in Mongolia.

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>>78407592
nigga, vikings just jumped from island to island, don't compare the baby tier viking journey with crossing the entire ocean, or like polyniesians did to arrive to easter island

>>78407045
They destroyed the COMBINED armies of Poland and Hungary on two separate locations in the span of three days.

>>78407669
It was colder though.

>>78407655
Abos have no culture.

>>78407655
Compare Genghis to Alexander and you should see my point.

>>78407684
>It was colder though.

oh, it was colder, even in summer, right? also that's not true, when vikings arrived to greenland the weather was warmer, actually when it changed was when vikings got rekt and had to leave

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>>78407487
I may be wrong but your country isn't all that different from other Anglo countries (USA, Canada, Australia) in which Europeans simply took over and wiped out or drove into reservations the natives. That's not Mexico, we became one people regardless of our different origins.

And we've been succesful enough at it the rest of the world looks at us as if we were all one race and whatever porblems our country has it isn't ethnic tensions driving it apart. We are not perfect but each generation grows prouder of its Amerindian roots and culture.It's how our people decided to build a nation.

>>78405333
i thinking you'll find it was Christian Columbington

>>78407711
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period

for the people that don't know about this event

>The Medieval Warm Period (MWP), Medieval Climate Optimum, or Medieval Climatic Anomaly was a time of warm climate in the North Atlantic region that may also have been related to other climate events around the world during that time, including China[1] and other areas,[2][3] lasting from about 950 to 1250

>>78406930
>had the wheel
Only that they didn't use for what is supposed to you desilusional faggot, Egypt had electricity 3000 years ago but was used for gild cheap methals not for ligth or move things, don't you have cars there now? that's what is supposed to be the use of the wheel you Cosmic Aztec piece of filth

>>78407748
Mesoamerica is mostly hills and jungle, wheels would have been a liability compared to Egypt's flatlands.

>>78407571
They used translator, Malintzin pictured here >>78407612 and here >>78407720 was the most influential of those.

On how they first learned there was a Spanish sailor who got shipwrecked amongst the Maya and learned their language a decade prior, Malintzin could translate from Maya to Nahuatl and eventually learned to speak Spanish.

>>78407684
Yes they did, crushed them. Poland and Hungary never stood a chance. And how much of Poland and Hungary did Mongolia end up annexing?
>>78407720
Tell yourself what you like. You speak the language of your invaders. You took their religion, you took their customers, their men took your women. It's not about race, that doesn't matter. Recite me a poem in Nahuatl and then tear the heart from a man and then you can tell me you're one people

>>78407811
ok just remove the roads and cars from there now you wannabe viking

>>78407811
also the lack of horses and oxes

>>78407748
Chill Venancio, if weaving textiles and making pottery are useless to you then fine, like we've mentioned they had no draft animals and plenty of lakes and canals to use. I don't get it why it doesn't make sense to you.

>>78407842
How much of Mongolia did Poland and Hungary annex?

>>78407842
>their men took your women.
It went both ways for some tribes that lasted longer than the Aztecs. They'd raid and take Spanish supplies like food, guns and women.

>>78407893
None at all. They were smart enough not to conquer a bunch of shit flinging barbarians who hated them and spoke no language or held no customs similar to their own

>>78407886
Because you don't use that anymore, that's why makes no sense, isn't hard to explain

>>78407914
They would never recover and gradually get annexed by Austria/Russia/the Ottomans.

>>78406408
Well, aren't you a little retard? Huh? Do you happen that be a criollo?

>>78407970
And how are the Austrian, Russian and Ottoman empires doing today?

>>78407994
Whatever point you had is long gone when you bring current day affairs into a discussion of the mongol conquests.

>>78407994
All empires collapse eventually you fucking dumb cunt

>>78407842
I'm not claiming I'm an Aztec, I'm claiming I'm a Mexican, it's not the same thing, much the same as Mexicans are not Spaniards. I speak the language of Mexicans, my religion is that of Mexicans, my customs are those of Mexicans and most of the women I've been with are Mexicans. What's so hard to get? Yes, we inherited much of our culture from Europeans but not all of it, I drink pulque, prefer food that all other people in the world would consider too spicy and I everyday use Aztec social customs like ninguneo or the use of diminutives.

It's the same as it was for Angles and Saxons or Romans and Iberians, there's no such thing as pure cultures, we are all a mix of something.

>>78407993
Yes, I just admitted to that earlier in the thread, so what? You could be indigena for all I know and still sell out your people.

>>78408020
My point is that what the Mongols didn't matter. The Polish could tell you the same seeing as their apex came after the Mongols crushed their armies

>>78408105
Aside from the dozens of world-changing events they caused, they literally brought the black death to europe after the siege of kaffa and you tell me that with what I assume is a straight face.

>>78405265
I don't remember being taught to hate Colombo, but don't know how things are nowadays since leftism in classrooms is creeping up and sticking its nose into it.

>>78408160
Black plague didn't start in the siege of Kaffa, unless of course the mongol used rats as siege weapons. It came along through trade ships. That didn't stop Europe from dominating world politics for the next 500 years though

>>78407443
>literally a we wuzzer
Are you the guy that makes the collages and all the other cringy stuff?

>>78408213
>Black plague didn't start in the siege of Kaffa, unless of course the mongol used rats as siege weapons. It came along through trade ships.

>The disease may have travelled along the Silk Road with Mongol armies and traders or it could have come via ship


>That didn't stop Europe from dominating world politics for the next 500 years though
Western golden age wouldn't start until the 17th/18th century

>>78408267
No, and what the fuck's your problem man? Mexico is a fucking indio country, if you can't deal with that or accept it then why the hell are you still here?

>>78408387
Hahaha

>>78408384
* end of 17th and beginning of 18th

>>78405265
I don't think so. My country is literally named after him

>>78405333
*Keremşah Koğlan Paşa

>>78407833
>Tfw no cute translation gf that puts you in communication with unknown cultures

>>78405265
there are some WE WUZ AMERINDIANS movements that go on and on about "genocide" in general, even tho there were no big campaigns against the natives in here for something like 100 years after him
they do mention the genociding, and the Inca empire and "all its wonders" going to shit because muh spaniards, but I think most people know this happened centuries ago, and that natives weren't some peaceful, intelligent, advanced bunch, so nothing of value was lost anyways

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>>78405989
>You're more European than not
I'm a mutt

>>78406304
lmao

>Tenochtitlan was founded on an islet in the western part of the lake in the year 1325. Around it, the Aztecs created a large artificial island using a system similar to the creation of chinampas. To overcome the problems of drinking water, the Aztecs built a system of dams to separate the salty waters of the lake from the rain water of the effluents. It also permitted them to control the level of the lake. The city also had an inner system of channels that helped to control the water.

>During Cortés' siege of Tenochtitlan in 1521, the dams were destroyed, and never rebuilt, so flooding became a big problem for the new Mexico City built over Tenochtitlan.

>Mexico City suffered from periodic floods; in 1604 the lake flooded the city, with an even more severe flood following in 1607. Under the direction of Enrico Martínez, a drain was built to control the level of the lake, but in 1629 another flood kept most of the city covered for five years.

>Eventually the lake was drained by the channels and a tunnel to the Pánuco River, but even that could not stop floods, since by then most of the city was under the water table. The flooding could not be completely controlled until 1967, with the construction of a Deep Drainage System.

>The ecological consequences of the draining were enormous. Parts of the valleys were turned semi-arid, and even today Mexico City suffers for lack of water. Due to overdrafting that is depleting the aquifer beneath the city, Mexico City is estimated to have dropped 10 meters in the last century. Furthermore, because soft lake sediments underlie most of Mexico City, the city has proven vulnerable to soil liquefaction during earthquakes, most notably in the 1985 earthquake when hundreds of buildings collapsed and thousands of lives were lost.

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>>78407370
>Tell me, honestly; would your life be better if the Europeans hadn't discovered America,
fuck yes

>It has also been suggested that the Spanish conquest of Mesoamerica influenced the history of the botanical garden[14] as gardens in Tenochtitlan established by king Nezahualcoyotl,[18] also gardens in Chalco (altépetl) and elsewhere, greatly impressed the Spanish invaders, not only with their appearance, but also because the indigenous Aztecs employed many more medicinal plants than did the classical world of Europe.[19][20] Hernando Cortés reportedly told the Spanish monarch that the Aztec physicians were superior to those in Spain, so superior, in fact, that the king need not bother sending Spanish physicians to the New World. Statement later confirmed in a early letter by the personal physian of the Spanish monarch who spent 7 years studying the Aztec medicine in a research trip that was expected to last 6 months: ‘"I marveled, in this and in innumerable other herbs, which are nameless among us, how in the Indies, where people are so uncultured and barbaric, there are so many herbs, some with known uses and some without, but there is almost none, which is not known to them and given a particular name".
>Mayan estimate of the length of the synodic month being more accurate than Ptolemy's,[2] and their calculation as to the length of the tropical solar year was more accurate than that of the Spanish when the latter first arrived
>The Aztec Triple Alliance, which ruled from 1428 to 1521 in what is now central Mexico, is considered to be the first state to implement a system of universal compulsory education.[4][5]
>According to the Guinness Book of Records, Cholula is in fact the largest pyramid as well as the largest monument ever constructed anywhere in the world, with a total volume estimated at over 4.45 million cubic metres, even larger than that of the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt, which is about 2.5 million cubic metres.

>>78405333
It's Big Chris buddy

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>>78415870
>Spanish conquistador Hernán Cortés arrived in Tenochtitlan on November 8, 1519. With an estimated population between 200,000 and 300,000, many scholars believe Tenochtitlan to have been among the largest cities in the world at that time.[14] Compared to Europe, only Paris, Venice and Constantinople might have rivaled it. It was five times the size of the London of Henry VIII.[6]

>"Our astonishment was indeed raised to the highest pitch, and we could not help remarking to each other, that all these buildings resembled the fairy castles we read of in Amadis de Gaul; so high, majestic, and splendid did the temples, towers, and houses of the town, all built of massive stone and lime, rise up out of the midst of the lake. Indeed, many of our men asked if what they saw was a mere dream. And the reader must not feel surprised at the manner in which I have expressed myself, for it is impossible to speak coolly of things which we had never seen nor heard of, nor even could have dreamt of, beforehand."
Bernal díaz del Castillo, True History of the Conquest of New Spain Chapter LXXXVII

>"Moctezuma He possessed out of the city as well as within, numerous villas, each of which had its peculiar sources of amusement, and all were constructed in the best possible manner for the use of a great prince and lord. Within the city his palaces were so wonderful that it is hardly possible to describe their beauty and extent; I can only say that in Spain there is nothing equal to them."
- Hernan Cortes, Second Letter of Relation to Charles V

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>>78415906
>It has been speculated that the Maya solved this urban transportation problem by constructing a 100-meter long suspension bridge across the wild river in the late 7th century. The bridge which featured three spans extended from a platform on the grand plaza of Yaxchilan crossing the river to the northern shore. The 63 meter center span remained the longest in the world until the construction of the Italian Trezzo sull'Adda Bridge in 1377

>They agreed to work at it viribus et posse, and began at once to divide the task between them, and I must say that they worked so hard, and with such good will, that in less than four days they constructed a fine bridge, over which the whole of the men and horses passed. So solidly built it was, that I have no doubt it will stand for upwards of ten years without breaking —unless it is burnt down — being formed by upwards of one thousand beams, the smallest of which was as thick round as a man's body, and measured nine or ten fathoms (16.8-18m) in length, without counting a great quantity of lighter timber that was used as planks. And I can assure your Majesty that I do not believe there is a man in existence capable of explaining in a satisfactory manner the dexterity which these lords of Tenochtitlan, and the Indians under them, displayed in constructing the said bridge: I can only sav that it is the most wonderful thing that ever was seen.
- Fifth Letter of Relation by Cortes to Charles V

>>78415820
It was just banter.

No, this kind of shit only happen in Europe and North America.
Also, slavery is not a taboo too. Some blacks are actually happy for not being born in fucking Africa.

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>>78405583
this
such a rich culture

>Archaeologists have found the remains of 42 children sacrificed to Tlaloc (and a few to Ehecátl Quetzalcóatl) in the offerings of the Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan.
>While Hernán Cortés was in Tenochtitlan, he heard about other Spaniards arriving on the coast – Pánfilo de Narváez had come from Cuba with orders to arrest him – and Cortés was forced to leave the city to fight them. During his absence, Moctezuma asked deputy governor Pedro de Alvarado for permission to celebrate Toxcatl. But after the festivities had started, Alvarado interrupted the celebration, killing almost everyone present at the festival, men, women, and children alike. Unarmed and trapped within the walls of the Sacred Precinct, an estimated 8,000–10,000 Aztec nobles were killed.

>At this time, when everyone was enjoying the celebration, when everyone was already dancing, when everyone was already singing, they came to close the exits, the steps, the entrances [to the patio]: They attacked the man who was drumming and cut off both his arms. Then they cut off his head [with such a force] that it flew off, falling far away. At that moment, they then attacked all the people, stabbing them, spearing them, wounding them with their swords. They struck some from behind, who fell instantly to the ground with their entrails hanging out [of their bodies]. They cut off the heads of some and smashed the heads of others into little pieces. They struck others in the shoulders and tore their arms from their bodies. They struck some in the thighs and some in the calves. They slashed others in the abdomen and their entrails fell to the earth. There were some who even ran in vain, but their bowels spilled as they ran; they seemed to get their feet entangled with their own entrails.

tldr The Aztecs sacrificed 42 children in 200 years. On the same spot the Spanish killed 8000 nobles with their children in a couple of hours and started the war with the Aztecs

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>>78405265
I visited the cathedral in Sevilla and actually saw the tomb of Christopher Columbus. It was a big tomb. Larger than life, just like his legacy. He was very likely a product of his time.

>>78405265
No

>>78416075
Most of those nobles were killed by other amerindians.

>>78416182
dindu

>While the Mexica gentlemen were dancing in the temple yard of Vitcilopuchtli [Huitzilopochtli], Pedro de Alvarado went there. Whether on [the basis of] his own opinion or in an agreement decided by everyone, I don't know, but some say he had been warned that the Indian nobles of the city had assembled to plot the mutiny and the rebellion, which they later carried out; others, believe that [the Spaniards] went to watch them perform this famous and praised dance, and seeing how rich they were and wanting the gold the Indians were wearing, he [Alvarado] covered each of the entrances with ten or twelve Spaniards and went inside with more than fifty [Spaniards], and without remorse and lacking any Christian piety, they brutally stabbed and killed the Indians, and took what they were wearing

- Francisco López de Gómara, Hispania Victrix; First and Second Parts of the General History of the Indies, with the whole discovery and notable things that have happened since they were acquired until the year 1551, with the conquest of Mexico and New Spain

>>78416271
So you believe that a hundred or two spaniards managed to kill 8000 people in a couple hours?

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>>78416352

>>78416064
lol what a worthless shithole

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Christopher Colombus was kind of a dick

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MJoKhO9G1g

>>78416415
Dale postea más ranas.

>>78416466
literally an unitedstatian SJWhale did that. it's exactly like the "mexican mario """""controversy"""": all invented by those damn yankees
but you wouldn't hate your ancester even if he was a Nazi officer, would you? we can't hate our euro roots, it's like hating our own blood

Well the public universities that gave hags of 30+ years that shill socialism and marx yea
I wanted to punch the bitch

>>78416466
even if a dick he was the first man to cross an ocean and start the european colonial empires
also the video is kinda annoying

>>78416640
>it's like hating our own blood
this
my brother may be a murderous bastard but he is still my bro

>They … brought us parrots and balls of cotton and spears and many other things, which they exchanged for the glass beads and hawks’ bells. They willingly traded everything they owned… . They were well-built, with good bodies and handsome features…. They do not bear arms, and do not know them, for I showed them a sword, they took it by the edge and cut themselves out of ignorance. They have no iron. Their spears are made of cane… . They would make fine servants…. With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want.

>While I was in the boat, I captured a very beautiful Carib woman, whom the said Lord Admiral gave to me. When I had taken her to my cabin she was naked—as was their custom. I was filled with a desire to take my pleasure with her and attempted to satisfy my desire. She was unwilling, and so treated me with her nails that I wished I had never begun. But—to cut a long story short—I then took a piece of rope and whipped her soundly, and she let forth such incredible screams that you would not have believed your ears. Eventually we came to such terms, I assure you, that you would have thought that she had been brought up in a school for whores.

>Endless testimonies . .. prove the mild and pacific temperament of the natives…. But our work was to exasperate, ravage, kill, mangle and destroy…

>>78405265
we hate him

>>78405333
you mean Χριστόφορος Κώστας?

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>Implying we hate based Colon

The man is a hero who made one of the greatest achievements of navigation in history
Only retarded leftists hate him, if he didn't discover us we wouldn't have running water or electricity right now

pic related, this statue recently finished being installed, I'd like to see leftists try to topple it over

>>78405989
>I know that a vast majority of the population of South America was killed.
Ajajajajajajajaj just look at it you fugin dipshit. Ajajajaja

>>78408044
No lo hagas caso al retrasado ese.

>>78405651
>what's a bet they tie you to a table and remove your heart in the name of their God?
i am not a warrior so they won't do anything to me.

>>78415934
I'm completely clueless about the Aztecs. How can I learn more about them? I'm ok with reading/watching things in Spanish.

>>78428744
Try this site http://www.mexicolore.co.uk/aztecs/

>>78407684
>>78407842
There was no unified Polish state during the 13th century, we only had several independent princedoms. Still, Mongol military operations were very impressive, especially the fact that they were able to coordinate two large simultanous operations - one in Polish princedoms and another one in Hungary (during the first Mongol invasion in 1240-1). Then they rekt us again during the second invasion in 1259-1260. Only then Poles and Hungarians combined their forces in one operation and this time we rekt the Mongols during their third invasion in 1287-1288. Even basic Mongol stuff was different for Medieval Europeans, eg. it was "honourable" when monarchs participated in battles (our prince Bolesław died or was captured during the first invasion), while Mongol commanders observed battles standing on some hill.

>>78432583
Could you recommend any Mexican movies about Aztecs?

>>78433693
There's unfortunately very few, the subject is too controversial and sensitive to attract funding from major studios.

You can find this one, the full movie, in youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK7HTHfQo2Q

It's something of an old indie film, it's all spoken in Nahuatl tho, the Aztec language, and I don't think that you can find it with anything but Spanish subs.

>>78406078
kek, never seen this one

>>78433974
Thanks! I can read in Spanish

>>78405265

And they'd rightly do so.

For the indians, he was like captain Cuck for the australian abos, like doctor Livingstone for the afrolads, like Admiral Perry for the Japman, like random oppium-carrying anglo merchantman for the yellowman, like random "peaceful, god-loving" anglos settlers in northamerica.

The bringer of Death, the destroyer of worlds.

>>78433974
why is it controversial? because the Aztexs practiced human sacrifice? Mel Gibson's movie showed it and no one gave a shit but white leftists.

>it's a "mexican has identity issues" thread

what happened to "la raza" lads?

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>>78405265
No

>>78405333
Cristoforo Colombo, you nigger

>>78405265
more like the opposite, at least in my times

>>78435795
>Non Aztec natives feel they're being erased
>Criollos feel it threatens their place
>Hardcore indigenistas will always find flaws
It's a long etcetera, it would be a hard project to pull off under present conditions, at least as a large commercial venture which is really the only way you can pull this off. Apocalypto was in fact controversial here and Mexicans aren't as emotionally invested in Mayans.

Personally I'd love it oif we could just move on and be comfortable mixing our ancient culture with fantasy like the Japanese do, I feel the end result of that is prestige and interest for the original/authentic but there's a lot of vested interests here, especially with indigenous peoples holding rights over some decent amounts of land and resources that they always end up cheated out of exploiting or even just protecting.

>>78435243
No prob man, hope you enjoy it.

>>78408457
ebin

>>78405265
more or less, most high school educated people know he was a dipshit but he's still in our national hymn
>>78405583
>civilisation to the barbarians
>civilisation
South American Indigenous nations were so civilised that many Spaniards expressed envy and admiration, there are texts of them literally admitting that their cities were better than any Spanish or European city they had ever been to, and that a non Christian civilisation didn't deserve such beauty and thus deserved to be punished. So all they brought was rape, genocide and kikeonastickism to completely independently developed civilisations
>>78405519
this
he was even a cunt to his family, the guy was a complete psychopath
>>78416352
you don't? post an actual rebuttal with sources like he did

>>78405333
You mean Kristiaan Kolumburg?

>>78438561

did you learn that bullshit in your chicano studies class? Your indigenous "civilizations" were 1 step above africa tier, at best.

>>78407655
Abos and Maori arent really comparable.
One fiddled around with sticks, the other created fine weaponry out of valuable stones and had a brutal warrior culture.

>>78436693
>Unironical la raza posters
They are either CHIs or bad hombres
Also...
>>78436693
>Portugal
>Not having identity issues
Dumb Moortugal

>>78438749
>chicano studies
check the flag you fucking retard
>Your indigenous "civilizations" were 1 step above africa tier, at best
>The great city of Temixtitan is built on the salt lake, and no matter by what road you travel, there are two leagues from the main body of the city to the mainland. There are four artificial causeways leading to it, and each is as wide as two cavlary lances. The city itself is as big as Seville or Cósa. The main streets are very wide and very straight; some of these are on the land, but the rest and all the smaller ones are half on land, half canals where they paddle their canoes. All the streets have openings in place so that the water may pass from one canal to another. Over all these openings, and some of them are very wide, there are bridges made of long and wide beams joined together very firmly and so well made that on some of them ten horsemen may ride abreast.
The city has many squares where trading is done and markets are held continuously. There is also one square twice as big as that of Salamanca, with arcades all around, where more than 60,000 come each day to buy and sell, and where every kind of merchandise produced in these lands is found; provisions as well as ornaments of gold and silver, lead, brass, copper, tin, stones, shells, bones and feathers.

Yeah I believe Hernan Cortés' own words are have more authotity than your assblasted, baseless claims

Your people never even developed a civilization independently, it was mostly the people you call sandniggers who started it all in Europe. So you were below africa tier

>>78405265
nope