Daily Japanese Thread - DJT # 1892

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「建物は緑の柱が鮮やかな三階建ての建物だった。大きな戸口を入った一回は広い食堂になっている。華やかな店構えを見回す陽子(ようこ)をよそに、達姐(たっき)は対応に出た従業員らしき男をつかまえた。」(Name pronunciations in parenthesis. I'd state the context, but it seems self-explanatory.)

What does 一回は mean here? Thanks.

How self-conscious of anime cliches are most japanese people?

>>78389490
well the jap-german dict I use says it can also mean something you could translate with passage or way through I guess

>>78390095
Fuck off.

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>>78390095
Enough. Self-awareness isn't difficult, even Americans can do it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCQBUzFcUUo

Thing is knowing your tropes and making the referencing of them a trope in itself turns thing very headachy. It's almost like post-irony, you start not to know whether a show is being retarded on purpose or not, and the fanbase is half retarded, half pedantic. Really troublesome.

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>>78379765
I have a Jap friend who likes anime and games and we play guitar together and listen to K-On tracks in the car on the way to local arcades and restaurants :^)

>>78391180
Plus he offered to show me around Japan when I visit next year. Feels good man.
Just gotta put yourself out there and introduce yourself, you'll certainly find someone who shares your interests eventually.

>>78389490
Maybe it's a typo for 一階?

Does 「影のない時間」 mean night time or noon? Or is it ambiguous?

Is furigana a crutch? Should I avoid manga with it? I'm attempting to read Made in Abyss but the lack of furigana makes it extremely difficult for me.

>>78396653
Are your difficulties from not knowing the words, or not remembering the pronunciations?

>>78397023
Both, really. All of the manga I'm interested in are way above my current level.

>>78391180
>>78391266
All nips I've met with similar interests were too retarded to have social contact, or too introverted to carry out group activities.
Where did you find your weeb buttbuddy?

>>78397238
Just keep reading and don't worry about whether or not there is furigana. Use kanjitomo or capture2text to quickly look up words. And make a mining deck if you haven't already.

>>78392194
this

杮
柿
How are these different?

Has anyone made a good Heisig deck?

>>78399245
What's wrong with the one on the archive? It's the only deck I honestly enjoy using now.

>>78398906
杮 isn't actually used but Wiktionary has the answer.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%B7%BF#Japanese
>Note: 巿 is often confused with the similar-looking 市 (U+5E02) meaning "market" or "city". Note that this character has only four strokes and is written 一 across the top of 巾.

>>78399267
I'm sorry, I just committed a cardinal sin. I didn't realize there was an RTK deck on the website, I should've looked harder. Thanks.

>>78399340
Thank fuck. The deepest existencial fear of
>tfw learning japanese incorrectly/inefficiently
set in for a moment

>>78399296
wtf
I saw the reading was こけら, are there a lot of kanji like this that are unused?

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the fuck is this kanji

>>78399957
looks like 救う (すく)う

>>78399996
>救
goddamn i'm retarded

thanks

>>78400049
>thanks

No problem. I think the first time I saw this kanji was in a buddhist calendar. I liked it ever since.

>>78398906
Well shit, I was writing かき wrong.

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>>78400370

>>78400466
are there two strokes in the third box?

>>78398906
>>78399296
>>78400370
>>78400466
Fuck this gay Earth, holy shit.

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>>78400556
Yes. There are 9 strokes in total.

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>>78400619
You have no idea, tomod8.

I blame fonts.

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>>78400669
>mfw

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>>78400644
>>78400669
I'm off, I can't learn Japanese.

Nice being with you guys, say hi to the devil for me.

>>78400644
I didn't even see the stroke on the left, I meant the stroke that crosses stroke 1, is that just one stroke? Maybe I haven't encountered that grapheme yet

>>78400922
The vertical one? It's just one stroke.

>>78401008
god damnit I meant stroke three, the stroke that crosses stroke 2

Jisho claims 不知火 - shiranu(h)i - is phonetic ateji, but that doesn't look like phonetic at all, and the MEANING makes complete sense (unknown light/fire). Am I getting it backwards?

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>>78401083
It's the same as 木.

>>78401136
Ok. For some reason, the picture in >>78400466 made it look like that stroke three was one stroke starting on the right and crossing stroke two, sort of like a へ in reverse. As opposed to writing it with the same stroke order as 木 which is what I've always done.

>>78401090
Looks like 熟字訓. It's 訓読み but written as though it were a Chinese 熟語 compound, like 明日 or 大人.

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>>78401270
I figured, but what's with this weird nomenclature, then?

>>78401190
>not knowing the 1 stroke かき方.

>>78401332
I don't think edict marks じゅくじくん words. It correctly says 茶化す is 当て字, but doesn't say 明日 is anything and says 従兄弟 is just an unusual spelling.

Start using a J-J dictionary.

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Maybe I'm being retarded and completely over looking things, but why is 決める in 2k "to decide/agree upon", while 決まる is "to be decided". How is 決まる any different from a past tense 決める? Pretty confused here

>>78401945
決まる is like 決められる.
It's intransitive/passive to 決める's transitive/active

>>78401945
決める is transitive. 決まる is intransitive. It has nothing to do with past or present.

>>78402092
>>78402079
Thanks friends

So I've taken up the habit of talking to my brothers 11 month old son in Japanese, just for practice. It has helped ne learn a few words like (寝る)

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>>78402268

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how does you guys' anki cards look like? how much information you guys like to put in it?

this is how mine look like, I'm still don't know what's the best font size for the kanji

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>>78402331
*I still don't know what's the best font size for kanji

also, I wonder if it would too easy if I could put the gramatical class on the card's front side. I found so many words with similar meanings but different classes.

>>78402316
Err is it weird?

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>>78402417
Yes what do you need a shitting potato to practice Japanese, is he a genius baby or something?

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>>78402364
I just use core2k/6k. This is what it looks like. May or may not be worth it to download, and copy the template if you like it.

>>78402446
I have no one else to talk to. I one want converstion is better than embarrassing myself infront of my family

>>78402492
*a one way conversation

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>>78402465
I really like core2k/6k expect that I really wish it had the verb's transitivity on the back side, it would be so much better in my opinion compared to having to figure it out from the english meanings or pausing to check a dictionary

For those who did RTK, did you bother trying to memorize the onyomi and kunyomi? Or did you try to get a feel for pronunciations just by building vocab and exposure?
>>78402586
You could just add the transitivity to the card as it pops up in the deck, if you don't mind the English too much.

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えぐる
>剜る
>抉る
>剔る
>刔る
>刳る
>刲る
>none of them is jouyou, not even jinmeiyou
which learn

>>78402873
I've only seen 抉る in the wild

>>78402802
I'm doing KKLC and I just learn the readings through vocab. It sticks much more easily that way.

>>78402887
It's the default one in Jisho too, I'll take that.

>>78402586
>>78402802
I started adding transitivity and 段 indicators on my verb cards whenever I happened upon an untagged one, but it was really boring and not worth it. I can infer transitivity most of the time, and the -ru thing is better off just being memorized from seeing verbs conjugated and getting used to their sounds.

From http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/easy/k10011101051000/k10011101051000.html

In the article both 大勢の人 and 大勢の人達 are used. I'm uncertain about the difference between the two. I think the first means "lots of people" and the second would be "many groups of people". Is that accurate or do they mean something else?

>>78397567
I met him in a music course at college.

>>78402873
"えぐる"は普通ひらがな、カタカナで書かれるぞ

日本人の俺でも"えぐる"の漢字は知らない

>>78403094
>大勢の人
Large crowd of people
>大勢の人達
Large crowd of many people
Basically the same thing

>>78403294
I see. Is it just for emphasis?

>>78403294
>大勢の人達
Or maybe "the people in the crowd" if it's the subject

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>>78400644
>>78400669
子孑

>>78403354
Ah yes, mosquito wrigglers, of course I should have guessed.

仕事はやっと終わったぁ~

>>78403354
There's also 孓 in Chinese which apparently means ''missing one's right arm''

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I don't think there's anything in what she said that would indicate a superlative or "most important," is there? Why should I think what she said was a superlative? Seems to me like I'd just be (literal translation) "What are important things/what's an important thing for the purpose of going chestnut gathering?"

>>78403834

By the way, the far right translation in my image is just flat out wrong on several levels.

>>78403628
No,it only is used in 孑孓,which means mosque.

>>78403834
It's just the translation. You have to take small liberties to make it sound natural and flow properly sometimes. Translators hate people like you.

>>78403834
Now become an actor for a minute and try to say out loud both the sentences in the translations and your version.

Which one sounds natural?

>>78402465
How did you change the colors of your deck?

>>78404242
I think that's just warm-light mode on his phone.

>>78404083

Why construct a sentence using zero grammar that indicates superlatives if you mean to indicate a superlative?

If what you're trying to say is "Look at it from the translator's perspective, they just don't want to put in awkward phrases that don't necessarily translate well/sound awkward translated literally" but if you're arguing that しまう actually meant a superlative there, I don't see how your comment is helpful.

>>78404285

*translated literally" then I get it,

>>78404053
>>78404083
>defending shitty translators
They could easily drop the word "most" and make the translation more accurate

What is something important to have when you go picking chestnuts

>>78404053

That may be true, but that's not what I was going for. The purpose of asking here was to figure out whether it was just the translation or not. I fully understand the role of translators and the fact that they can't translate literally all the time, and that it's bad for business to do so.

>>78404302

Thanks

How much time do you spend reading futaba channel?

>>78404285
You are crazy, there is no shimau anywhere.

>>78404302
>something important
Nobody will say that, too convoluted. You are confused by the unspecificity of the Japanese text, which doesn't transfer as easily to English. If you want to call a translation shitty, at least have enough tact to rephrase it.

Although I think what they did was clear and functional enough, here are a few attempts:
- What should we always have when picking chestnuts?
- What is (are) a chestnut picker's best friend(s)?
- When picking chestnuts, we can't forget our...
- What's important when picking chestnuts?

>>78404421

It's the character's name.

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>>78404443
God, I hate Japanese.

>>78404480

Well, it's just her nickname, not her actual name

When she first introduced herself at school she accidentally said よろしくおねがいしまうー and the rest is history

よろしゅうお頼み致しまし

シクヨロっす

>なので、友達に会う時間がない
Translation from tk:
>That's why there's no time to meet friend
If I did:
>なので、友達に会う時間のがない
have I changed the meaning at all?

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>tfw you have literal brain damage

>>78405349
わんばんこ!

Im planning to motorcycle in japan from november to march, what is the temperature in Honsu and Hokkaido at this time and is it safe to camp outside?

thanks, a travller

>>78407386
>japan
>safe
Do you even have to ask?

>>78407409
You idiotic Brazilian, I am asking a weather related question

>>78407532
Well it really depends what parts of Honsu you're planning to visit, i'll assume it's Tohoku since you mentioned Hokkaido, as far as muh google researsh goes it seems temperatures do not reach more than 20C during that time frame, so yeah at night outside shoud be 大変ですね

>>78405795
The の is unnecessary and doesn't make any sense.

>>78407386

Plenty of sleeping bags are rated for sub-freezing temps but I don't know if it would be all that fun

>>78407386
Avg January temps in Hokkaido are from -4 to -12℃. It can get much colder than that. You'll freeze. RIP, anon.

>>78407386
Also you might get eaten by a bear. Double RIP.

>首謀者であるところのガタイのいい乾君は、大声を張り上げた後、扉を開けて出て行ってしまった。
What's the meaning of であるところ here?

What's the difference between 週末 and 週休?

>>78408343
Oh wait nevermind, turns out anki has both and weekend but rikaisama already gave me another meaning, sorry for being retarded.

>>78402465
You might want to change the font or add lang="ja" to the span in the card because this kanji has one more stroke.

>>78404285
>>78404302
you aren't the target group... if you would tranlate it literally and less adjusted to english, all readers for whom the translation was made for would complain that it's "obviously a shitty translation"
you have to take liberties and the superlative makes it more natural here

>>78414054
ありがとう

>>78414054
(^0*)/ '>

>>78403834
The far right is a mistranslation.
https://core6000.neocities.org/hjgp/entries/766.htm
https://sakubi.neocities.org/#linking

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>>78415865
>sakubi

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>>78415891
The only thing better than Sakubi for learning Japanese is amphetamines.

>>78415865
Fuck off with that nonsense.

>>78415994
Fuck off with scanning books about Japanese for you guys? Are you sure you want me to fuck off with that?

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>>78415865
>>78415964
>>78416019
>https://sakubi.neocities.org/#linking
okay so I tried to be fair and I've actually read this part and jesus christ it's fucking horrible... I feel like I'm actually unlearning stuff

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"I also want you to know that, for that reason, a crying man is behind your back."

Is there a better translation, because I feel I'm missing something. Monkey Punch always makes my brain hurt.

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>>78388702
>>78382016
>>78383641
正確に言えば、「得る(うる/える)」は、本動詞verbとしてgetの意味の外に、複合動詞を生成する動詞化語尾affixとして用いられ、英語のcanのようなauxiliary verbに近い働きをします。このような特殊な動詞化語尾には「上げる」、「込む」や「過ぎる」などがあります。
で、「得る(うる)」は、古語や文語では下二段活用ですが、口語では「得る(える)」であり下一段活用となり、可能の複合動詞「書き得る(かきえる)」は下一段活用となります。つまり「書き得る(かきえる)」は「書ける」と意味も活用も同じになります。更に、連母音eiがe音になる音韻法則により「かきえる」は「かける」という発音に移行するわけです。ですから、一部の可能動詞の語源は動詞化語尾「得る」による複合動詞であるという説が成り立つのです。実際には、助動詞「れる」による可能形「書かれる」は受身・自発・尊敬の意味で用いるのが主で、書き言葉として可能の意味では「書き得る」が、話し言葉としては「書ける」が用いられる傾向があります。また、「(一人でに)書ける」というように、「書ける」は自発動詞としての意味がありますが、「書き得る」には可能の意味しかありません。
ただ、「書き得る」が可能動詞「書ける」の語源であると文献的に実証されているわけではなく、あくまでも「説」に過ぎません。また、動詞の分類において「可能動詞」は意味的な分類であり、「書き得る」を可能動詞とするのは誤りではないのですが、教科書的な解説からは、離れていたのかなとは思います。
なお、例えば日本語のaspectやmoodの表現には多様な複合動詞を用いる表現があり、「書く」の完了形は「書き上げた」や「書き終えた」であり、意に反して「(思わず)書いてしまった」というように「書いてしまった/書いちゃった」は特別な意味を持ちます。

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>>78416019
Pwease, guys, if you don't wead my guide I wion't scan books!
Yes, everyone is sure they want you to fuck off, it's not even about taking the hint anymore, you've been explicitly told to fuck off plenty of times. So what are you waiting for?

You can't teach Japanese.

>>78407697
I think I'm just going to have to read more to get the hang of when I can use の to turn things into a noun.

>>78408060
who is

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I can't even SEE this, how am I supposed to learn Japanese?

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%90%88%E7%95%A5%E4%BB%AE%E5%90%8D#.E7.89.87.E4.BB.AE.E5.90.8D

>>78395019
Does anybody know?

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>he doesn't practice his speaking
Here is future you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCQ7IBH0KDk

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Please...what the fuck is this kanji. I don't have a higher res picture, sorry.

>>78426747
looks like 爆

>>78426806
looks like that's it! thanks a lot!

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Day 2 of Core 2k/6k. What am I doing wrong? ;_;

When new words come up, I guess the pronunciation if I can, say the definition, repeat the actual pronunciation of the word when the recording plays, and just drill 'again' until I get it right. This is absolutely miserable. There has to be a better way.

>>78429304
Try learning radicals.

>>78423513
You only use の to turn verbs and adjectives into nouns, like 大きの, something big, or 使ったの, something made. の is unnecessary in your sentence because 時間 is already a noun

>>78426058
>implying i haven't extensively researched and practiced japanese phonetics

Bumperino.

You'd better mine that shit:
高等学校卒業程度認定試験

>>78434799
could read it but wasn't sure what it meant

>>78417691
>a crying man is behind your back
It's more like, "You should know that there's someone out there crying because of it (or substitute 'it' with whatever's appropriate to context)."

>>78425724
I've never heard the phrase before, but it looks like it means the time just after sunset.

From Yahoo answers:
>夕日が沈んだ直後の影のない時間、マジックアワーにはそういう意味があるらしい。

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>>78435470
Thank you very much. I'm trying to make sense of the lyrics of this album, they're really strangely worded.

チンチン

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>>78437814
ドコ

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>hit around 4k
>何、年、日、月、手 start popping up all over the place in different combinations
>何より
>何となく
>何だか
>何で
>何て
>何しろ
>何千
>顔

How long until I'm actually able to read something lads? I'm only at about 80 vocabulary. Wtf Japan, why did you have to adopt Chinese characters?

>>78438270
Yeah, these simple words are such shit, 何卒 何らか 何故, I recently failed 何とも. They are very similar but bear very different meanings, and you're never really sure of their pronunciation.
Failing the 半年 card when it was scheduled for 2,4 years if I pressed Good was pretty shitty.

>>78438857
I feel like I put a lot of effort into the more complex ones but it's hard to find a solid ground for each of the simple things. Anki should do a little more to explain the nuances.
Words for year, tomorrow, today, tonight, this morning seem to come up all the time with different kanji/readings.

I feel like the 何 ones would be great for conversation if I could just sort them out in my head and remember to use them.

Anyway my other recent struggle is
>坂
>板
>飯
>仮
Gotta going a bit slower with this. I'm trying to be more honest with myself and hitting again if I really fucked up but man, it's killing me now.

>>78438830
literally immediately, just mine words you don't know and look up grammar points you don't understand in the HJGP or DOJG

>>78438984
>Anki should do a little more to explain the nuances.
Anki only shows what you put into it so if their is a lack of explanation, it's because you didn't include it.

>>78440649
You mean like adding notes?

>>78438984
Whenever I find a cluster of kanji I'm mixing up, I'll make a list and compare them, looking for logical hints and, when they fail, looking for ways to create my own mnemonics.

坂 - slope - 土 earth
板 - plank - 木 wood
飯 - meal - 食 eat
All of these are pretty self-explanatory and logical.
仮 - provisory - 人 person
This one makes little sense to me, but think of the person as a substitute teacher and it might give you something to go with.

>>78438270
>>78438857
>watch anime
>know all of these automatically
You should try watching anime too

>>78442180
Do you make flash cards out of these animes?
Or you mean just watch anime all day?

>>78442180
I do. 878 hours and 24 minutes of it.

>>78442180
how many hours did you spend watching anime to know that automatically?

>>78442989
A few

>>78443011
how about a ballpark figure?

>>78443024
Around 43000000 seconds

>>78443163
>12k hours worth of anime
>hurr durr I know those words
one hell of a sunken cost

Anyone know any good Japanese apps? Not like dictionaries or flash cards, actual games for fun, ideally for beginner/intermediate but anything is good.

>>78443309
>spend time watching anime because it's fun
>end up learning Japanese

Fellow Brazilian anons, have any of you ever imported books or manga from Japan?