All memes aside, what is your opinion on Angela Merkel?

Blood on her hands

She's very good at what she's doing (I do not agree with her policies).
She's been in power for so long, was she ever part of a scandal of any sort?

>>78377704
not a fan of her politics but compared to other leaders of countries she shines (no scandals every now and then)

I don't hear much about her.
I heard she likes open borders, then I heard she regretted letting so many people in, now she's letting more in. So I'm confused.

I want to hate her but she's at least trying to keep the union together

>>78377704
Not my president

Leader of the free world, until America gets someone competent again

She will be remembered as a political genius.

>>78377704
>tfw merkel is more height than me
>tfw no feelings inside

>>78377893
>She's very good at what she's doing (I do not agree with her policies).
I feel the same to be honest

>>78377704
I'm not allowed to express my honest opinion about our godchancellor

>>78377704
based mutti

I think she is intelligent (yes, she is, unfortunately) , but I don't trust her for one second. She is the head figure of the destructive policies imposed onto Europe atm.

I'd vote for her if I were German.

>>78377704
Evidentially quite an effective political operator although I don't know enough about German politics to go further than that.

I think she's quite good looking, relatively speaking. (My reference-comparisons are Nicola Sturgeon, Theresa May and Hillary Clinton. Despite being about as unattractive as them in "conventional" terms, somehow she's not really.)

>>78377704
1. Shes an idiot.
2. She is a traitor and evil.
Choose visely.

>>78377704
next EU emperor

Mummy!

>>78377704
Since I knew she was childless everyhting made sense to me.

>>78377704
Despite the migrant issue, she represents economic stability and I like that.

Beside her letting in millions of refugees she has done a very good job so far. Our economy is the strongest in Europe and very stable, people earn more money thanks to her, etc.

Unfortunately, because of the refugee crysis I can't vote for her anymore.

>>78377704
Don't like her. Too conservative. I agree with her letting in the refugees but I don't think she did it for humanitarian reasons. She just wanted a cheap source of labor.

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>>78377704
I'd fuck younger merkel desu.

Opportunistic bitch that keeps lying to the people just to stay in power.

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>>78378402
same here until now, thanks senpai

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>>78378484
>refugees
>source of labor

Could go onto a long rant against her but can't be arsed smart but a cunt much like many German leaders

She is doomed

>>78378536
this. Unfortunately she's really smart, or the rest of the country is dumb as shit. I don't even know anymore.
>>78378481
>Our economy is the strongest in Europe and very stable
And that's due to the refugees, because the lobbies are constantly pushing their pro refugee shit on us, because they don't need to pay the minimal wage to these people.
The CEOs don't have to worry, they'll move to some gated community in america after their last million while we normal people have to deal with this shit.

>>78378611
dont you read the news? refugees make shitty labour, german industry doesnt want them anymore

>>78378460
>>78378481
this. she lets migrants in but at least her policies also let ordinary germans make more money, live a better life and increase their wealth.
in russia for example putin invited millions of immigrants but at the same time our economy is unstable as fuck because of oil prices, so is our currency. and ordinary russians are still poor as hell

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-03-14/russia-s-alternative-universe-immigrants-welcome

>>78378637
Yes, but the main reason we have to deal with all these "high skilled doctors" were them and Merkel does everything for the car lobby.

>>78378698
I think this is not true. I do believe that Merkel wanted to help the refugees out of genuine compassion

>>78378741
I think she figured they were getting in unless she literally had them shot at the border.
So she gave up.

>>78378741
I don't. The "refugee" problem isn't old.
We just ignored it because we didn't had to take care of it. We just nagged and criticised the italians who had to take all the people before. She was at a point where she couldn't ignore these people anymore and came to the result >>78378783
and by "integration through work" she could get some rich ass supporters on her side.

>>78378783
I watched an interview where she said that she watched America help Yazidi refugees who fled from ISIS, and she thought that Germany and Europe should do more to help.
It seems to me that she acted out of emotions, rather than from rational thoughts, which is rather untypical for her

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total loser

>>78378829
The Italians have been the most fucked throughout the entire thing.
They're not doing too well economically either.
>>78378849
I don't know if it's stereotypes or something, but she strikes me as the calculating type, a STEM girl, I wouldn't pin it on emotions.
We can't know for sure anyway.

>>78378943
>The Italians have been the most fucked throughout the entire thing.
>They're not doing too well economically either
That's my point. Germans are dumb. They ignored it for so long. I remember complaining about that shit back in school and instantly got accused of being polemic, but I knew because I fucking been there multiple times.

>>78378849
Sounds like something a poltician would said to keep the vote after fucking up.

>>78378943
>I don't know if it's stereotypes or something, but she strikes me as the calculating type, a STEM girl, I wouldn't pin it on emotions.
Merkel is famous for switching her position if it is politically beneficial. That's how she managed to remain chancellor for so long. But when it comes to refugees, she sticked with the unpopular position much longer that needed. This makes me believe that she indeed acted out of emotions, although i agree that we can never be 100% sure

>>78377704
Angela (((Kassner))) is the enemy of Europe, but since she want to genocide the Germans she is the ally of Europe too

I have mixed feeling about her

>>78379044
Merkel is pretty uncharismatic and i don't think she is good at playing the masses. That's why I can imagine her answere was genuine

>>78378829
Will they ever go back will a german leader ever sort it?

#NotMeinKaiser

American education here, are there any common complaints that don't involve the refugees? Aren't most of the German people (not on 4chan) in support of accepting refugees still?
What kind of sorcery is she doing to keep getting re-elected if so many people are unhappy with her?

>>78378829
Well, Merkel basically only does what German people want, that's how she stays in power.
If German people don't care about Italian refugee problem, Merkel will ignore it aswell

>>78379273
Sorry but there is no way Germans saw Italy and said wow maybe we should take a million shitskins

>>78379225
>American education here, are there any common complaints that don't involve the refugees?
That she has no backbone and is willing to give up any position if it benefits her. That's also how she stays in power.

>Aren't most of the German people (not on 4chan) in support of accepting refugees still?
I would say it's currently 60-40 against refugees

>>78379123
No, I don't think so. Our current, realistic choices are Merkel or Schulz who is even worse.
By the time the AfD would become as big as the FN in france it'll already be too late.
http://www.epochtimes.de/politik/deutschland/ist-frankfurt-die-erste-stadt-mit-unter-50-prozent-deutschen-ohne-migrationshintergrund-a2155084.html

>>78379225
Besides that she's opportunistic there's no trick.

>>78377893
>She's been in power for so long, was she ever part of a scandal of any sort?
not really, mostly one of her ministers, like karl-theodor zu guttenberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guttenberg_plagiarism_scandal or annette schavan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annette_Schavan#Plagiarism

>>78379310
You don't know much about German psychology.
We still think we are guilty of beeing nazi and have to redeem ourself. This is coupled with a sort of German arrogance, thinking that we are better than others and that we can easily solve such complex problems.

>>78377704
Always thought it was strange Germany's conservative party accepted her so quickly given her background

i think she is relatively good politician and has good intentions, even with the refugee shit i believe she thought she was doing right thing, compared to our politicians she is way better

>>78377704
She knows how to run a country. While I don't support her policies and I trust her about as far as I can throw her, she is a role model to political stability and she's trying her best to keep the union intact (which is in Germany's interest), even making concessions to France in regards to the Eurozone.

>>78378481
>economy depends on who Kanzler is

she is useless at best, harmful most likely

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>>78377704
>All memes aside, what is your opinion on Angela Merkel?
In power too long, really fucked up with the refugee thing and seems to flip-flop based on what the current opinion in Germany is. Also, she's an unfuckable lard ass.

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She focusses on "Europe" too much
I hope SPD will win but everything points to another cuckservative victory

SPD + Linke would be the best for Germany

>>78379615
SPD has no clear leadership and the Linke is infested with left-wing fundamentalists who are unwilling to compromise

>>78377704
She made one horrible mistake and that is what will be remembered about her.

Can you guess what mistake i am talking about?

Strong leader, though I think she could have had more control over the refugee crisis.

>>78379615
please be a troll

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>>78379699
>Can you guess what mistake i am talking about?
sure, grand coalition with the spd, right?

>>78377704
Would not shake her hand desu.

>>78379734
No the op.
Going against nuclear electricity maybe?

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>>78379590
>implying the "social" democrats will change anything
they've been part of the goverment for 8 of the 12 merkel years.

>>78377719
It's ok, that's what Jesus died for...

>>78377947
>>78377986
this. political science student here, not a fan of her politics. however- it is undeniable that she is a political genius. her way to power was almost machiavellian

>>78382895
How?

>>78384052
in case you are honestly intrested, bored or both just watch this. it sums up some of the reasons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0N9_V7wlUw

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>>78384052
www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/12/01/quiet-german
She stabbed the man who ran the party she leads now in the back after a big scandal.
They'd known each other for years and he'd helped her get into politics.
She was the first of party member to come out and say they have to cut with him and she subsequently became the leader when the rest couldn't chose one among themselves.
Up until that point the party held a fiercely loyal line for the old war horse.

Picrelated is the old boy, he died recently. RIP

>>78377704
Crazy maniac that's literally worse than Hitler, if she gets elected again she will ruin Germany and the possibly most of Europe forever.

>>78377704
She looks like nice woman

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>>78384560
yep. + she likes to publicly state that certain politicians have her "fullest trust". 6 of them stepped down shortly after, one of them was our president... that women is scary

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Always related...

>>78378525
Do you like boys or something?

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What is the current relation with Merkel and Putin?

>>78377704
As a normie, I like her.

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>>78384856
This sort of shit is why I don't get people portraying her as a bleeding heart.
She's absolutely utilitarian and cutthroat. She didn't even blink when Schultz tried to pull the gay card on her, she immediately neutralized it with a vote on conscience while keeping her hands clean to appeal to conservatives.
She didn't give a fuck about the issue or using her power to fight the tide.

>>78384856
oh and i forgot the best part: Benedikt XVI. got her fullest trust aswell. she might be a illuminati leader.
>>78385079
way better than she´d like you to know and is often portrayed in the media. all sanctions against russia aside the diplomatic contacts never stopped working and trade between germany and russia is extremely important for both countries. also putin speaks german and merkel russian- there always had been a special connection between those two eventhough they try to outplay each other- just like in your picture

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>>78385396
Good. I had read something about Germany complain about America's new embargo on Russia. Don't know how it will end.

>>78377704
Filthy kike

MUM!!!

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>>78385342
merkel doesn't fears schulz at all- with good reasons
>>78385504
yes. the planned us-embargo could become a problem but since it would affect the whole EU i guess it will end up way smaller than currently planned

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>>78385755
USA backed off last I checked

>>78385841
that's what i thought.
btw how comes a bulgarian knows so much about german politics? are we important in your media or something?

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>getting rid of the g*rmxn "people"
good person

>>78385755
Besides AfD, there is another party (with chances of win the election) that want to send the refugees back home?
Come on, Syria war is over. Arab spring failed.

>>78385982
>Quaddafi
>Mubarak

>>78385342
>She didn't even blink when Schultz tried to pull the gay card on her, she immediately neutralized it with a vote on conscience while keeping her hands clean to appeal to conservatives.
That was beautiful, to watch a political mastermind at work. You just know that she had already anticipated that the gay-marriage stuff could come up, and knew how to react.

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>>78385931
I read a lot of news and Germany is very important in EU. I pick up stuff over time and it adds up. Merkel in particular has been interesting to me so I follow her stuff when it makes a blip in the anglospeaking media.
I don't get it from local news though, mostly anglo media and translated german news. Bulgarian news are tame and limited.

>>78386051
The main target was Assad.
Also, i miss Quaddafi. He did nothing wrong...

>>78385982
merkels party actually is splitted into her party (cdu) and their bavarian sister (csu). the csu got their own leader and they are way more conservative than the cdu and already threatened merkel over the whole refugee thing. besides that the other right wing partys wont stand a chance in the election.
>>78386137
keep up the good work. way to many uneducated idiots around here.

>>78386271
When will Germany consider ended the "humanitarian crisis" in Syria?

>>78386421
not in the close future. some politicians are still butthurt about sending back afghans to save places in afghanistan because there is war in other parts of the country.
nazi guilt i guess

>>78385396
>trade between germany and russia is extremely important for both countries.
Nope. The trade relationship is one-sided. Germany is Russia's 2nd most important trading partner after China. But Russia is only the No. 15 in the list of Germany's most important trading partners, comparable to Hungary.

>>78387019
>But Russia is only the No. 15 in the list of Germany's most important trading partners, comparable to Hungary.
But Germany is getting its natural gas from Russia, so the trade with Russia is incredibly important for Germany

>>78387019
>The trade relationship is one-sided.
Hans, let me teach you something.
Is better have some kind of people in your hand, than in your back.

>>78386589
Do they realize that your welfare system will collapse soon more people start to retire? How do you plan in pay pensions if your bugged is already compromised with refugees?

>>78387090
Not really. We could actually replace it with other countries' gas. It would cost more, but we would still get along fine. On the other hand if we really stopped buying Russian gas, Russia would be completely fucked. As I said: one-sided.

>>78387224
Do you prefer a Russia that depends on Germany to survive, or you prefer a Russia that hates Germany?

>>78387116
Russia is always on your back, whether you have treaties with them or not. You can't trust them. I like the people, but their political class, the Silowiki et al are absolutely untrustworthy cutthroats.

>>78387116
i do realize it, but im gonna play devil's advocate here:
more and more young germans visit universities- meaning that there will be/ is a lack of people willing to take on hard working jobs- the refugees can fill that gap and btw if they refuse to take a job they lose most of their benefits by law.

>>78387315
IDK, looking from South America perspective. Its just a unjustified fear. Soviet Union ended in 1991.
Since almost all developed countries have (or can build in weeks) nuclear weapons. Peace seems to be secured.
I love how the fear of nuclear war and mutual destruction ended with all world wars.

>>78387282
Russia doesn't hate Germany. The absurd emotionality you see on Russian television is finely tuned PsyOps, a specialty of Russian intelligence services since the Okhrana. This doesn't mean at all that their leadership feels the same way. The leadership is cold blooded, utalitarian and only respects the law of the jungle. They uphold treaties only when it suits them. If not treaties are just scraps of paper to them. The have no morals, no honor, no feelings.
I prefer them being dependent. But this takes nothing away from my assessment that the trade realtionship is one-sided.

She is a traitor to the German people who is responsible for one of the dumbest political decisions in recent European memory.

>>78387224
>It would cost more, but we would still get along fine.
This is a pretty big issue. If we pay more for energy, this influences everything we produce, all our exports will become more expensive and less competative

>>78387462
we give them goods- they give us money
they give us gas- we give a little money back
one sided would be giving goods and get nothing in return

>>78387411
There is a catch.
Sure they will take low paid jobs and be happy for that. But what the second generation of them will do when they realize that they are a majority (age group) and most of the wealth is in hands of the white devil who oppress them with "slavery".
Will they rebel against Germany? Will they ignore and keep working?
I know that democracy don't watch the "long term consequences" because his party only have an eye in the next election.

>>78387454
Looking from Ukranian or Central Asian pespective, it looks completely different. Russia was never a sea power. It's not in their self-conception. They're a land power, perhaps the most land oriented land power of all non-landlocked countries. And it makes sense for them, they have no good access to the seas, which is why they tried to get it for centuries. The whole pan-slav thing in general and the fake support for Serbia in particular is just a ruse for them somehow getting better access to the Med.
With this in mind they don't care much about South America, because they have no reach. They do care, however, very much about their so called "near abroad". And they care very much about the EU. They see it as their main enemy as the very existence of the EU threatens Russia's leadeship. And with Germany being the EU's strongest avatar, they see Germany as one of their main enemies, perhaps their No. 2 enemy behind the US.

>>78387519
Yes, but we are one of the biggest net exporters. Shifting our foreign trade to a more balanced curent account would even be beneficial to us.

>>78387555
I was talking about the importance of the trade for each side, as that was what the original claim was about. German-Russian trade is extremely important for Russia. Not so much for Germany. Hence it's a one-sided relationship.

>>78377704
Absolutely horrible and incompetent.

>>78387652
>And they care very much about the EU. They see it as their main enemy as the very existence of the EU threatens Russia's leadeship.
I disagree. Russia sees NATO as a threat, especially if those countries border them, since it allows usa to invade their core land immedaitelly. That's why they are so butthurt about baltic states and why they value Finnish neutrality so much. That's also the reason why they support separatists in Ukraine, because no country with unresolved territorial conflict can join NATO.

>And with Germany being the EU's strongest avatar, they see Germany as one of their main enemies, perhaps their No. 2 enemy behind the US.
Quiet the contrary, Russia sees Germany as a natural ally. If Russia and Germany were to combine their powers, Russian military and natural resources, together with German industry and technology, a new superpower would be born. That's why USA always tries to keep EU and Russia apart

t. Russian

>>78387691
>Shifting our foreign trade to a more balanced curent account would even be beneficial to us.
If we get more imports in return, yes. If we just pay more for the same gas, no

>>78387603
we have a comparable well working education system and all children are forced to go to school. in my high school class i had one turk, whos parents came to germany not speaking one word of german- 2 of their 3 children are today studying at universities and the oldest one is already done and became a teacher. besides that asyl =/= the right to stay forever.
>>78387730
our industy (still) depends on cheap gas and oil

>>78379377
God this sounds so much like us.

>>78387652
Yes, i am familiarized with the European fear of the Russian sea access (napoleon was one of the first to bring it up).
But i can't see Russia as a economic enemy of, lets say, Germany. You guys are 20 years ahead in technology. If they manage to catch up, their products value would be almost the same, because the living standards would increase as well in Russia.

>>78387923
What? Your only "victims" where fins, ruskies and your Scandinavians brothers (maybe Germany because the 30 years war). I don't see how you can feel white guilty.

>>78387827
>I disagree. Russia sees NATO as a threat, especially if those countries border them, since it allows usa to invade their core land immedaitelly.
That's nonsense. The Russian leadership pushes this propaganda narrative. In truth they know they can't be attacked because they have nukes. Same thing with the missile shield. It's a total propaganda issue. The missile shield is of no concern to Russia's leadership, except that it can be exploited in PsyOps. Russian missiles aren't impeded in any way by the missile shield. Russian missiles aiming at the US go over the north pole, and not over the Baltics. This is also evidenced by the fact that the latest stationary anti-ballistic radars that Russia erected on it's own territories look in the same direction as the US missile shield: to Iran.

>That's also the reason why they support separatists in Ukraine, because no country with unresolved territorial conflict can join NATO
Same propaganda narrative. Putin decided to intervene in Ukraine with military force because Ukraine which slowly manages to adhere to European standards is the biggest threat to Russia. Putin fears a Maidan on the Red Square. Russia is one of the most unequal societies int he world. A prime example of an oligarchy. And the Russian system manages ths inequality through fear and force and oppression. They can't afford a country which is culturally so similar to Russia as Ukraine to serve as an example how to overcome the corruption and the oligarchy.

>>78387827

>Russia sees Germany as a natural ally.
Pure nonsense. Cyber warfare, PsyOps, massive propaganda and fincancial and other support for extremists in Germany speak a different language. They do everything in their power to break up the EU when it is our prime interest to keep the EU together. They're our biggest enemy.

>If Russia and Germany were to combine their powers, Russian military and natural resources, together with German industry and technology, a new superpower would be born.
This would be a wet dream for Russia and the stupidest thing Germany could ever do. You can transfern knowlege, but you can't transfer the mountains and mountains of natural resources. Once Russia has the knowledge they would ditch Germany and be superpower alone. We'd be wise never to give in to this folly.

>>78377704

I don't agree with her policies, particularly her stances on the euro, nuclear power and immigration. But you got to hand it to her that it's impossible to stay in power for so long unless you know how to play the political game, even considering she got all the political benefits from the Hartz reforms while Schröder got ousted.

>>78388146
>In truth they know they can't be attacked because they have nukes
technology marches on. It is not out of the question that in forseeable future, there will be missile shields that can reliably stop nukes, then russia is in real trouble, surrounded by NATO bases. Why else do you think would USA let the baltic states join NATO? Because they care so much for the balts that they would be ready to die for them? Or maybe because they are a strategiy asset, bringing US troops closer to Russia?

And Ukraine is an Oligarchy just like Russia, in fact Ukraine is even worse. It's leaders are corrupt and dont care about Ukraine people, no matter if they are Russian or western puppets

>>78387856
What do you mean more imports in return? For the same money? That would do nothing to our current account imbalance. A net exporter gives away wealth over the long term, because he can never be sure to get back the values he net transferred cross border. Only with a balanced current account is this risk dealt with.
So, yes, the best way would be to come to a balanced current account by importing more, and also, yes, doing this without losing purchasing power is preferable.

>>78388146
>NATO
NATO was created to scare URSS.
>>78388146
>because Ukraine which slowly manages to adhere to European standards is the biggest threat to Russia
Can we consider the civil war in Ukraine (waged by the majority of Russian living there) as the reason to Russia annex Crimea?
Sure the idea of Ukraine join the EU was the reason for the civil war. But was a good reason.
>>78388181
>They're our biggest enemy.
In the deep of your heart, you know that the French are your biggest enemy.
Just kidding. Mutual destruction ended with all the rivalry in Europe. You guys are now a big unhappy family.
>Once Russia has the knowledge they would ditch Germany and be superpower alone.
That is true.

>>78387880
>our industy (still) depends on cheap gas and oil
The chemical industry perhaps. The rest of the industry depends on cheap energy, not necessarily cheap oil and gas. And cheap energy can always be achieved by means of state laws, as we're doing right now when we exempt energy intensive industries from the green tax on electricity.

>>78388181
supporting extremists is just a political asset. "You stop sanctions, we stop support for AFD". It is just geopolitical powerplay, and not a sign of Russian hatred.

>Once Russia has the knowledge they would ditch Germany and be superpower alone.
Why exactly would Russia ditch its most valuable ally? Would France ditch Germany? Remember, its not so long ago that France and Germany were arch enemies

>>78377704
Good leader but also a massive traitor

>>78388289
>there will be missile shields that can reliably stop nukes
Yeah, like the 25% success rate of the Iron dome, that actually kill more Israelis than the Hamas missiles?

>>78388030
>But i can't see Russia as a economic enemy of, lets say, Germany.
No, they're not an economic enemy, but a political enemy.

>>78388413
>political enemy
You mean, a non member of EU?

Russia would be pretty stupid if did not try to ruin EU. They need Germany, way more than Germany need them, and this forces a politic opposition.
Beside the endemic corruption in Russia, i can't complain about their government, sure most of them used to be military man, but it doesn't mean they are plotting a invasion to western Europe.

>>78388411
as i said, technology marches on.
If you were the leader of a great military power, would you really bet the future of your country on nukes staying reliable deterrant forever?

>>78388289
>technology marches on. It is not out of the question that in forseeable future, there will be missile shields that can reliably stop nukes,
It's complete nonsense. Experts are casting great doubt whether the most modern anti-ballistic missile shield of the US can reliably intercept all of North Korea's missiles, the most backwards of all nuclear power. Missles will never be a totally secure way to pretect against nukes. This is a fundamental problem of physics. Ballistic missiles go at Mach 20+. Anti-ballistic missiles go about Mach 10. It's like trying to shoot a rifle bullet with a pistol bullet. You can make your pistol bullet as sophisticated as you want (and never mind that the rifle bullet can be made sophisticated as well) but in the end the simple speed difference means you're always fighting an uphill battle and are on a huge disadvantage.
Any statement of Russia that they feel threatened by the missile shield or that it tips the nuclear balance is a complete lie.

>Why else do you think would USA let the baltic states join NATO?
They joined because they wanted to join, applied and got accepted. They applied because they sought protection from Russia, which had oppressed them for centuries. They feared they would get under Russia's thumb if they didn't exploit the monent of Russia's weakness to seek strong allies. And judging by what happend to Georgia and Ukraine after they were both denied NATO membership in 2008, primarily because of Germany, the Baltics are absolutely right about Russia.

>And Ukraine is an Oligarchy just like Russia
Yes.
>in fact Ukraine is even worse.
No, Russia is even worse.
And the thing is Ukranian civil society is on the march to change Ukraine. Never mind that it will take ages and suffer from setbacks. The simple existence of this movement alone is a threat to Russia's leadership.

>>78378402
we all are her children, hail Mommy!

>>78388799
>They joined because they wanted to join, applied and got accepted.
Ok, so according to you, why exactly would USA let the baltic states in the NATO? Because they are good and ready to risk American lives to protect the Balts in return for nothing?

>And the thing is Ukranian civil society is on the march to change Ukraine.
What evidence do you see for that? Have you heard about the people getting burned in odessa? About facists forces in Ukraine, who are armed and basically independant from government? How they admirer the war criminal Bandera? How people on Ukraine national television talk about removing the citizenship of ethnic Russians living in Ukraine?

>>78388591
Yes.
Nukes, for more scaring they look, are the only thing that prevent WWIII, WWIV, WWV, and so go on.
Mutual destruction assurance is the best peace treaty that exist. No one will gamble when you win rate is absolute zero.

>>78389160
>Mutual destruction assurance is the best peace treaty that exist.
So you have to prepare for the case that ne technology will make this treaty obsolete

>>78388348
>NATO was created to scare URSS.
Not to scare but to preotect against their huge conventional forces after WWII, which they used to put entire Eastern Europe under their thumb.

>Can we consider the civil war in Ukraine (waged by the majority of Russian living there) as the reason to Russia annex Crimea?
No it started way earlier. 2004 was the year Putin turned his back on the West and became increasingly paranoid, due to the Orange revolution. He demanded Kuchma shoot the protesters, but Kuchma denied. Since then Putin has been on a crusade against the West.

His decision to take parts of Ukraine was probably taken sometime in mid-2013 or earlier. It was in mid-2013 when he started to say "na Ukraine", meaning "on the Ukraine" or "on the territory of Ukraine" as opposed to "w'Ukraine", meaning "in Ukraine" or "in the country of Ukraine". So as far back as mid-2013 he denied Ukraine being a country of it's own.

And remember back then even Yanukovich was still strongly FOR the EU association agreement. It was only in November 2013 that Yanu did a complete 180, after a visit to Moscow. Expert have speculated that Putin had blackmailed Yanu back then, most probabl with the annexation of Crimea. In any case, this then made Yanu turn against he EU association agreement in a complete 180. This in turn spawned the Maidan protests, which Yanu had to put down with force as Putin wanted. Because Putin wrongly thought Ukrainians will bow down to force and oppression like Russians. Yet, he miscalculated. The violence of the police only lead to ever greater protests, and after the murders on the Maidan to Yanukovichs flight and the revolution.

The fact that then in February Russian troops were ready to invade Crimea supports the assumption that Putin had wanted it way earlier. The logistics alone of such an operation take months of preparations. The narrative that Russian olny reacted in the heat of the moment is a complete lie. Pure propaganda.

>>78389221
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
>>78389238
>Not to scare but to preotect against their huge conventional forces after WWII, which they used to put entire Eastern Europe under their thumb.
Yes, i know. Just because my country is stupid and illiterate, doest mean i must be too.
>No it started way earlier. 2004
Well, first time that i read about the Ukraine joining the EU, was about the time when i read about separatism in Ukraine. But since i live a ocean away, i probably am wrong.

>>78388383
>supporting extremists is just a political asset. "You stop sanctions, we stop support for AFD". It is just geopolitical powerplay, and not a sign of Russian hatred.
I never spoke of Russian hatred. In fact I emphasized that Russian leadership does these things in cold blood, calculating and utalitarian. And that's also why you can't trust them.

>Why exactly would Russia ditch its most valuable ally?
The same reason they never really wanted to join the EU. Because they see temselves as above other nations. They would never accept to be one amongst equals. As the saying goes: Russia has exactly three allies. It's army, it's navy and it's air force.

>>78388582
>Russia would be pretty stupid if did not try to ruin EU.
Yes, but they're actively pursuing it, throwing tremendous resources at this task. What's good for Russia isn't necessarily good for Russia's current leadership. That's why we'd be stupid to try to judge their behavior with our common standards. For the Russian leadership their strategy makes perfect sense. That can't reform. They tried and failed. Thay don't have it in them to become a modern democracy. And since they can't make themselves better, they're trying to make others worse. It's destructive, it's immoral, it's bad. But it's logical and consequential.

>it doesn't mean they are plotting a invasion to western Europe
No they won't do that. Risk vs Reward doesn't add up here.
But if they see a chance to regain old territories in the Baltics or Ukraine or central Asia, or even the Balkans, they will seriously consider and in some cases take the chance.

>>78389679
>But if they see a chance to regain old territories in the Baltics or Ukraine or central Asia
Why?
Is not like the glorious age of European conquest, where the lack of land forces them to subjugate entire continents and colonize them. Russia also has a shitty birth rate, and they have a continental amount of resources unexplored.
There is no reason to simple invade another country.

>>78389074
>Ok, so according to you, why exactly would USA let the baltic states in the NATO? Because they are good and ready to risk American lives to protect the Balts in return for nothing?
Because American strategic leadership is well educated in history. They know what happened the last time when empires in Europe broke up and the emerging nation states were left alone. This was the inter war period. Accepting the Baltics into NATO was the correct decision, because it helped them on their path to become peaceful modern democracies. For the same reason we took in Spain or Greece into the EU (and the Baltics, too). To prevent them falling back into dicatorships.

>What evidence do you see for that?
Watch the news and I don't mean RT or Rossiya1. You'd have to be blind to overlook the efforts tat they take. And, yes, there are serious resistances due to the old elites clinging to power, which makes everything super difficult and super slow, but it happenes.

>facists forces
>Bandera
>removing the citizenship of ethnic Russians
You've completely fallen to Russian propaganda narratives.
There's essentially no point in discussing with you as you live an an alternative reality.

>>78389401
>Well, first time that i read about the Ukraine joining the EU, was about the time when i read about separatism in Ukraine. But since i live a ocean away, i probably am wrong.
Well, the negotiatians for an EU association agreement aren't as old as the Orange revolution. Ukranians seem to have learned from the fact that the Orange revolution failed. They realized they can't reform on their own, so their trick was to try to put their country on a path towards the EU in the hopes that this would force the leadership to raise standards concerning corruption etc. They had seen that this had worked with Balkan countries and Eastern Europe although these countries most likely joined for different reasons. It's a neat idea and I gotta say smart thinking. This was also why the EU association agreement was such a big thing to Ukranian civil society, that it ultimately lead to a revolution when Yanukovich tried to put an end to the talks after he himself had prepared the agreement to the point that it was ready for signatures.

>>78389815
>Is not like the glorious age of European conquest, where the lack of land forces them to subjugate entire continents and colonize them. Russia also has a shitty birth rate, and they have a continental amount of resources unexplored.
>There is no reason to simple invade another country.
Well, part of it is also trying to manage the huge inequality in Russia. If people have time to pause and think they might request reforms, they may demand a share of Russia's vast wealth. But when you're at war you can justify almost anything. And most importantly it makes the leadership indispensible.

But that's only part of it. Another part is that Russian strategic thinking is completely devoid of values, only acknowledges the law of the jungle, and is very much focused on geography.

Germany gotta get rid of her.