Why does Catalonians want independence?

>>78347677
Better question, why doesn't Castille?

>>78347677
Because they don't feel like one and the same people with the rest of Spain. A part of Spain the population of Catalonia has to vote in the same elections as the rest of Spain. If everyone else in Spain voted to do something with Catalonia that the people there voted against, then it would happen and they would be powerless to stop it. What it means to be in a country is that the place where you live in is owned by the country, and not the people who live there. Catalonians want to own their country independently.

>>78347677
ESPANYA EINS ROBA

....or some shit like that

>>78347677
Why have you stolen their flag, btw?

>>78347757

Aren't they more left leaning than the rest of Spain? Why do they want independence to own their own land and save their own culture when they will eventually become a minority anyway?

idk why aragon wants independence. not like it'll happen without yet another civil war

>>78347855
Why would Catalonians become a minority? Swiss people aren't a minority, even though they are wedged between four countries with the same languages and many times their populations?

Catalonia would be 1/3 the size of Austria, and Austria is pretty small. Another meme country in Europe with <10Mio inhabitants

>>78347855
Ireland is and was more left leaning than the rest of Britain. Would you have said the same about their independence movement?

>>78347677

Because they're the richest spanish region, and according to them... Spain (Madrid) steals from their money to pay the infraestructure of other regions.

Plus their have it's own culture, traditions, language, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwmXqu1BrjA

Meme nationalism created by the very bad situation of Spain in the 19th century that recently has become fashionable again thanks to the actual bad situation.

>>78348016
>Because they're the richest spanish region, and according to them... Spain (Madrid) steals from their money to pay the infraestructure of other regions.
they dont want spanish speakers there, do you know that? they hate every south american cunt

File: skratt.jpg (181KB, 1170x1300px) Image search: [Google]

181KB, 1170x1300px

>>78348043
>Meme nationalism
>implying there's any other kind

>>78347914

Because they will have about the same unrestricted immigration policies that Germany does?

>>78347677

Because they are fools.

>>78348016
>Plus their have it's own culture, traditions, language, etc.
Just like every other part of Spain, Spain is an union of different parts that although they are different to each other , there is no a real big difference to be in separate countries

>>78348016

If they are so left leaning then why do they have a problem with sharing their bread with their fellow human beings?

>>78347677
Because many regions filled with lazy people even for spanish standards that they are feeding with their taxes.

>>78348043
>>78348056
I just met a Spaniard in my uni class, only European exchange student in the whole uni. You guys have beautiful pronunciation, and he's white as fuck. Just wanted to say that, since your flags reminded me of that guy.

Because Spain's a complete shithole and catalonia is just a poocavern
As good a reason as any desu

>>78348179
also, he has some trouble understanding our shitty Puertoriccan "spanglish"

>>78348163
Because what is made by the workers should be owned by the workers, not stolen by capitalists or the bourgeoisie.

>>78347977

If I remember correctly, Ireland was a colony, they didn't have equal representation in the government, unlike Catalonia.

File: 1502372190477.jpg (47KB, 680x793px) Image search: [Google]

47KB, 680x793px

>>78348219
STOP MIXING ENGLISH WORDS WITH YOUR REGULAR SPEECH
I WILL SHIT DOWN YOUR THROAT

>>78348056


http://airevision.com.ar/2017/06/19/los-argentinos-pueden-la-llave-la-independencia-cataluna/


To complains, contact to: http://afi.gob.ar

>>78348229

But sharing your profits with workers with a different culture isn't stealing.

>>78347757
>Because they don't feel like one and the same people with the rest of Catalonia. A part of Catalonia the population of Barcelona has to vote in the same elections as the rest of Catalonia. If everyone else in Catalonia voted to do something with Barcelona that the people there voted against, then it would happen and they would be powerless to stop it. What it means to be in a country is that the place where you live in is owned by the country, and not the people who live there. Barcelonians want to own their country independently.
This is actually happening in Catalonia.The only relevant and influencial province is heavily against independence and a bunch of redknecks using gerrymandering want to force them break up with Spain

>>78347855
>>78348117
Christ, is this really how americans think?

>>78348174
Catalonia relies on FLA money to not collapse.They have barely enough money to pay farmaceutics and the pensions due missmanagement.

>>78347914
Soon swiss will be minority desu
>As of 2012, resident foreigners made up 23.3% of the population, one of the largest proportions in the developed world.[151] Most of these (64%) were from European Union or EFTA countries.[152] Italians were the largest single group of foreigners, with 15.6% of total foreign population, followed closely by Germans (15.2%), immigrants from Portugal (12.7%), France (5.6%), Serbia (5.3%), Turkey (3.8%), Spain (3.7%), and Austria (2%). Immigrants from Sri Lanka, most of them former Tamil refugees, were the largest group among people of Asian origin (6.3%).

>>78347677
Why can't a single spic speak English?

>>78348351
>fucking ZP
and Aznar, literally criminals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCApXTDdoEA

File: ppLsM.jpg (60KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 600x600px

>>78348219
>spanglish

>>78348219
Spanglish, kys cuck

>>78348759
>>78348863
I know, we objectively have the worst Spanish. But it's normally only spoken vurgally, you know? When trying to speak formally we don't use "Spanglish".

>>78349179

Citation needed

>>78349290
You can't get away with Spanglish on uni essays, or presentations. Or formally written letters to companies.

Are you from the south or metropolitan area?

Catalan is better than Castilian

>>78349376

I mean the we speak the worst Spanish bullshit.

>>78348296
They would know.

>>78349630
Oh, that's just me self hating that part of our culture. I like how Puertoricans speak spanish, as in, how it sounds. Just hate how common it is to mix English when South American countries don't do that.

>>78348417
Why are you so mean to them? Surely you understand the struggle of learning English as well as they do

>>78350044
English is the easiest language to learn

>>78347677
To split from Spain making both countries more irrelevant than if they just stayed together, just like the Balkan countries.

>>78347677
spane is too inefficient
they want out
but they don''t realize
they are one and same

>>78350413
is this a haiku?
>>78348417
most young people can
the educational system taught french or even german back in the day so dont expect old people to be good at it or even people on their 30's

>>78350101
>tfw the easiest language is your native language
feels bad

>>78350101
>>78350637
I doubt it. I mean surely afrikaans is easier, if nothing else.

>>78347677
Because Spain is pretty weird and Catalonia is even weirder.

Spain is technically not a centralist country but it's not federal either; there's a weird system in place where some autonomous communities (the official name of the territorial divisions) have more powers and privileges than others due to historical reasons, such as their own educational system, police force, etc.

Catalonia has some of these powers but lack any regarding taxes, unlike Navarre and Basque Country. Catalonia is also one of the richest regions in Spain but is comparatively underdeveloped to some much poorer regions and many people believe that the tax system in place is unfair.

There are also pretty significant cultural differences, the most important being language. There are a bunch of different languages in Spain but they were mostly considered regional oddities even though Catalan has a significant amount of speakers (Catalan is spoken is Valencia, Balearic islands and parts of Aragon, not just in Catalonia, which makes it the second most spoken language in Spain). And when you mix that with a central government which insists in a unified culture, there are only 2 possible outcomes: the regional culture is destroyed (look at the state of Provençal in France) or frictions appear (Catalonia).

You mix both things with a few doses of provincialism, add politicians with much to win if the region becomes independent and voilà, strong independence movement.

this guy knows - > >>78351198

>>78351198
>there are only 2 possible outcomes: the regional culture is destroyed (look at the state of Provençal in France) or frictions appear (Catalonia)
When you put it like that, to an outside observer, it seems it would be better if they were independent.

File: Spanien.png (147KB, 966x722px) Image search: [Google]

147KB, 966x722px

>>78351198
>>78352716
this is how it should be

>>78352716
It doesn't really have to be like that; look at Switzerland. Having many indigenous languages in a single country should not be a source of friction.

I believe that the problem lies in how different regions approach cultural identity. Spaniards know very little about their own country; Castilian-speaking regions have very little interest in learning about Catalan literature, for example, and many people are completely unaware of regional cuisine outside of one or two famous dishes.

Besides, there is no excuse for not knowing how to speak a 3rd or 4th language (if you're younger than 35 and do not speak English, you're either fucking retarded or did not care about it which means you're retarded anyway). You shouldn't freak out just because you're in your own country and do not understand some signs (I've been to Basque Country a few times and I can't read Euskara at all).

>>78351198
>Let me tell you about your country
Uhmm honey shut up and stop embarassing yourself

the CATALAN warrior is being opressed by the evil sp*Nish warrior, shoo shoo spicroaches

File: scatman john.png (149KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

149KB, 400x400px

more like scatalonia am i right? :D

>>78352978

I find it funny that a person from the other side of the globe understands the problem much better than many people in Spain.

Unfortunately, I do not think there is much to do. It is just a matter of time that several regions in Spain start becoming independent. People are just getting tired of the same all shit and every attempt to find a good compromise for all the parts has been dismissed. Threats, obviously, are not helping.

I am basque, I would like Spain to be a real federation (and Portugal should be in, too), since together we are stronger. But unfortunately, this is just a dream and will not happen since there is so much shit all over the place to get things work. The antagonism is just too obvious in all the parts so it is not curing anytime. Therefore, the simplest solution is to just bet on independence. It will be hard, but still better than being drag in a nation that, unfortunately, does not really wants to go forward.

>>78353532

Maybe it is you the one embarrasing yourself, because Pancho is perfectly right. Like it or not.

>inb4 catalan, podemita or any other bullshit.

>>78353630
>I would like Spain to be a real federation (and Portugal should be in, too), since together we are stronger.
>Iberian Federation
Like in Kaiserreich.

>>78353630
I'm actually a Catalan living in Mexico, so yeah, I'm aware of the problem

>>78353532
lolwut. Care to contribute to the thread in any significant way?

>>78353822

KEK, then I was too optimistic.

Anyway, as you see, for now a catalan (you) and a basque (me) defending a position, a spaniard from another place (most probably not from the perypheric regions) against.

Sbane in a nutshell.

>>78353737

What's Kaiserreich? Do you have any info/picture on that "Iberian Federation"?

>>78353580

Make a draw of that epic struggle.

>>78353896
Well, it's not unusual to have people with different opinions inside a country, right? I mean, I can't think of a single non-authoritarian country with a single vision of how the country should be run.

For what it's worth, I believe that all the problems that independence is supposed to fix can be solved without having to split the country in two. I also think that true federalism rather than the current system in place would be a sane solution, but I don't include Portugal lol (they're their own country, they can do whatever they want). Claiming that "independence is the only possible solution to the problem" is a defeatist line of thought; changing the way of thinking of a whole country is hard and may take generations but reconciliation should always be the final goal, I believe.

I also think that the European Union should grow a pair of balls and become the United States of Europe, but what do I know.

>>78354703

I guess that a man can dream, but honestly Iberian (or Spanish) Federation is not happening. And neither is the United States of Europe. EU is a bureaucratic shit full of retards that are there to steal money from the european contributor. It is better dead, desu. If only Adenauer or Monnet would come back from death, they will probably kill themselves.

>>78354815
But that's precisely the line of thought that must change. If you say things like "this won't ever happen", then 100% sure it won't happen.

If you fail, you pick yourself up and go at it again. And even if you don't achieve it, you may have set things up so that someone else can achieve it for you.

>>78347677
They don't. The just want more tax benefits like the basques.

>>78354908

That's nice when you have in front of you someone that actually wants to talk about a possible change.

>>78354936

> tax benefits

It is clear that you know shit about how it works, right? If you are genuinely curious I would gladly explain it to you.

>make 1978 constitution giving special powers to every independentist snowflake region with the CCAA system even tho federalism is specifically forbidden in the constitution
>be surprised when these semi-autonomous communities start funding their own independentist propaganda with tax money
spain is like a boat with 10 people, each steering the boat in a different direction
>>78352801
>implying british tourists have the mental strength to realise theres more to spain than the mediterranean coast

>>78352978
>Castilian-speaking regions have very little interest in learning about Catalan literature
I know my experience may be an exception, but I'm from Madrid and studied Catalan (at the EOI) and therefore met many people who were learning it. But you can't expect everybody to be interested in a language that is not used where they live, and that it's only used by people that have another language in common with you.

>>78348260
Omg
go to bed my white friend.

>Argies are the center of the Universe!
>ArgieNews

>>78353630
>I am Basque
>I would like Spain to be a real federation.
>AmIaretard.gif
Euskadi and Catalonia have more control
over their land than any D.Bundesland.

Gtfo of your fugin shithole and learn about the world aaround you. You fugin cunts.

T. Schepp

>>78352978
>Castilian-speaking regions have very little interest in learning about Catalan

We are not even interested in other castillian-speaking regions and you want us to be interested in yours kek. The basquefag is right, this country is fucking dying.

Catalonia best region FUCk spen

>>78354434
Alternate history mod for Hearts of Iron IV. Iberian Federation is what the Kingdom of Spain is renamed to if CNT-FAI come into power, either through being elected or my winning the civil war. They can then spread the syndicalist revolution to Portugal, and if successful then Portugal can ask to join the federation.

>>78356615
I'm not saying that everyone should learn Catalan. I mean, I barely know anything about the Basque Country or Galicia. What I'm saying is that there's no emphasis to learn about any Spanish regionalisms at mandatory school level, neither in literature, language nor anything of the like.

I'm willing to bet that the majority of the Spanish population have never heard of Tirant lo Blanc, even though everyone has heard of Don Quixote.

I think that in social studies subjects, if you were to add learning how to say basic sentences in all Spanish languages ("good morning", "thank you") and learning about local festivities and cuisine of different regions, you'd have a remarkable change in attitude in the population in less than 10 years. Also, national school and university student exchange (such as SÉNECA) should be encouraged and publicised more.

>>78359730

They probably haven't heard of other highly regarded Castillian novels because most people don't care about that stuff.

>>78353822
>I'm actually a Catalan living in Mexico
>living in a third world shithole full of cartels and crime
good luck Jordi

>>78360418
It's not that they won't care, it's just that they won't even be taught about it.

At school you learn about Valle-Inclán and Bécquer even if you don't ever read them and later forget about them.

>>78360556
Thank you, hopefully I'll be leaving in 1-2 years tops.

>>78360723
>Thank you, hopefully I'll be leaving in 1-2 years tops.

dont come here, we re full

>>78360902
Who said I was going back?

>>78360960
good

File: spainCatalonyas.png (41KB, 1525x1056px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 1525x1056px

>ywn force a potato famine on the scatalans like brits did in ireland

>>78347677
I don't want it

>>78352801
Kill yourself nigger soon your country will be a caliphate don't worry

>>78353630
>It is just a matter of time that several regions in Spain start becoming independent

When you are old and you are about to die, remember what I say you here, never on this world a shit region from Spain will become a nation, let's see what happen

>>78348016
>Because they're the richest spanish region
No they're not


>>78348056
My last name is Castell

>>78351198
> there's a weird system in place where some autonomous communities (the official name of the territorial divisions) have more powers and privileges than others due to historical reasons, such as their own educational system, police force, etc.
There's a reason it's called Kingdom of Spain, not Republic of Spain

>>78348233
The northern part was colonised in the 16th century, but it was a nation within the United Kingdom.

Ireland was more of a vassal or subject than a colony. Although I suppose by forcing the English language upon them we "colonised" their minds.

>>78363732
Being federal or centralist has nothing to do with being a kingdom or a republic.

France and the USA are both republics; France is centralist and the USA is federalist.

>>78353597
You're right Finland

>>78347677
They are richer than other provinces.
They are not "different". Galicians or asturians are way more different than the "rest", and galician is much more spoken than catalan in their respective territories.

They don't want to contirbute with poorer regions like Andalucia or Extremadura. They want to keep all their taxes to themselves.

The problem is that Catalonia is rich because their products are bought in Spain. Half of what they sell is sold in Spain.

Without Spain buying their products, they are poor.
And many big companies (including Seat, the automaker) have said that if Catalonia became independent they would move to the rest of Spain.

By the way, Catalonia is a very densely populated area, with a big city, so it makes sense for it to be richer than places like Extremadura that have a very low population and are very rural.

>>78363766
and 90% of Ireland land was owned by English landlords who we not allowed to bread with the native population witch makes it a colony

File: 1500161236450.jpg (26KB, 600x315px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 600x315px

>tfw sometimes there's literally no one where I live making it look as if I live alone in a Ghost Town.

>>78347677
because they're better than us

>>78353737
>Portugal should be in, too
No, we could try to get the terrone instead, they last longer with us

>>78364204
iktf
my town looks like its been abandoned for most of the day