/hell/ - /gr/: Genetic origins of the Minoans and Mycenaeans

>>77888360
How will Varg ever recover?

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No, it's not a meme map

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nordcucks on suicide watch

>>77888360
I long for a paper on ancient Macedonians. Stuff like this gives me a reason to live.

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>>77888666
>888666
noice

>>77888666
checked

>>77888360
Cutest grill i ever met was Greek. But she was nothing like the average Greek, oh no. She was a Ligur.

>>77888360
>southern italians as distant genetically as yemenis

i am vindicated

>>77888987
Greek girls are not for subhuman moors

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ancient Greeks were Finns

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>>77889094
ancient Greeks were blonde

>>77889025
Do you even know what a Ligur is, Mehmet?

In my life I have only seen two, and they were both women. Absolutely beautiful, it saddens me every time I think about how rare they are.
Recessive genes ftw I guess, at least that way they'll never go completely extinct.

>>77889043
Says the Slav. Fuck off Krcksznic

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>>77889201
here's a real ancient greek
ancient Greeks were Vikings

>>77889201
Well congratulations, now you know one moor. See what I did there?

Now are you gonna answer my fucking question or should I ask you again when we meet eachother later this month in Mecca?

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>>77889288
Rurik was an ancient Greek and you can't prove me wrong

>>77889288
saved for the next >muh vikings thread

>>77889326
why do you care about viKANGS your ancestors where mongols anyways

>>77889393
Rurik was a Finn which makes him Greek

>>77889567
im a greek
-rurik

>>77889134
im not slav you dog my mother and father are Greeks

>>77888360
lel thats like the recent study that found that modern Lebanese can attribute 93% of their DNA to the Phoenicians. The only people who claim that modern people are different to their ancient counterpart are n*rdcucks looking to we wuz.

>>77889857
True, people exagerrate the extent a people changes in 2000 years, sure there are some exceptions, but for the most part looks remain quite stable (of course taking into account dietary influences). Even the Turks, subhuman roaches as they may be, that 10-15% Central-Asian DNA doesn't have a predominant effect on their looks. Sure you can cherry-pick the roach with slanty eyes and a mongol face, but the majority looks pretty much the same as they did 2 millenia ago in Asia Minor.

Δεν ξέρω τι Εβραιkές ασυναρτησίες είναι αυτές αλλά η Ελλάδα είναι αποτέλεσμα των Ελ.

>>77890505
Φριkηπαιδιστης;

>>77890317
It's very rare for population to change. It would need large resettlements from a coloniser plus for the indigenous people to have their population largely reduced. For example the Americas where 90% of the natives where killed by smallpox.
>>77890407
Laz are not greek :)

migrate edo

>>77890539

>>77890568
I may be Laz but I am Greek

>>77890599
Same here, I may be Belgian but I am Greek.

>>77890587
Excusez-moi??!! I'll have you know I'm subhuman Phoenician*** filth.
>>77890599
I'm Greek too :)))))

>>77890691
I assume you still offer infants to Ba'al?

>>77890811
>>77858401
I worship and venerate EL and his children as it's the only way for your npš to enter the land of Mot. Without the light of EL you are condemn to walk alone in eternal darkness.

>>77888360
A good day for us greeks :D

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>>77891017
Oven you say?

but Iki, you aren't Greek

you're a disgusting inbred laz monkey

Mister2 is back <33333

Hail to you, bro

>>77890554
Λιαkοπουλιστής.

>>77890599
>>77890651

I may be Greek but I am Greek.

Will Varg EVER recover?

>>77888360
WE

>>77888360

Modern Greeks should be between Myceneans, instead they are somehow supposed to be closer to steppe peoples than Myceneans. Fake and gay.

>>77893167
wut?

>>77888360
>Oh my god, modern Greeks are genetically similar to the ancient Greeks. How shocking, just like how modern Lebanese are similar to ancient Lebanese
It's pathetic how people on /int/ and /pol/ get suprised by facts like these. It's almost as if no one here knows anything about genetics and history. Instead idiots just spam the shitty
>'rapebaby' meme

>>77888360

This made me cry. I always envisioned Ancient Greeks with golden blond hair and piercing blue eyes. Well, I'll be getting drunk tonight.

keep in mind that there is a difference between what are european "dark hair and eyes" and what are arab/negro ones.

vargite autism about blonde hair and blue eyes has to end.

>>77893376
Because their model for immigration is the current one where millions of people move, whereas in the past it was small groups of conquerors subjugating much larger populations and eventually being assimilated, or small groups of settlers living in seclusion from the rest of the population

>>77889857
depends on the period and the location though. for example Bronze Age (southern) Greece saw an Anatolian and a northern shift that didn't exactly radically alter the Neolithic population but in the same period Great Britain experienced a much bigger shift that made its inhabitants go from Sardinian-Basque-like to almost modern British-like

and we still need more samples, including to see when Greek shift to their modern position. my guess is early medieval times with the Slavic migrations but lots of potential from Dark Ages to Hellenistic times. modern mainland Greeks seem more steppe-like and less farmer-like compared to those samples which tells me something from Northeast Europe impacted them

>>77893457
What are you doing in Poland Mehmed? Come back to your motherland

I'm greek btw

>>77889857
it's possible/likely that there was more replacement than that but that it came from similar Levantine tribes. what's interesting is that the detectable remaining % is mostly northern and something that had steppe in it which also ties in with modern Lebanese actually being 'whiter' than their ancient counterparts, pigmentation-wise...

>>77893398
there are Iron Age Finnish samples coming soon too

also one of the most common Y-DNA lines in Crete already appears in Minoan times, that J2a subclade, pretty cool

>>77894031
i'm not an arthropod, sorry.

>>77894350
>>77894031
YOU JUST GOT KURWA'D

>>77893224

Modern Greeks are a mix between Indo-European and pre-Indo-European populations. Thus they should fall between those.

It seems that those few Mycenaean individuals whose DNA was analyzed are simply pre-Indo-European folks that were assimilated into Mycenaean society, but aren't representative of Mycenaeans as a whole.

>>77894907
>Ancient proto-Greeks were not ancient proto-Greeks

ok

>>77894907
the tested Myceneans were a mix between pre-Indo-Europeans and Indo-Europeans, they have some 15% of steppe ancestry that the Minoans lack. and one of the samples was from the aristocracy

more samples are welcome but it based on current samples, Mycenean Greece was more farmer and less steppe while modern Greeks are somewhat more steppe and less farmer. which is nothing surprising if you realize that the most important influence in post-Classical Greeks came from the Ukraine

>>77895256
ignore the austrian autism, he already chimped out about "germanic lands that poland should give germanics back" in another ongoing thread about reperations.

i love how with new released papers all the /int/ we-wuzers got BTFO. that polack we-wuzing about ancient polacks and that polacks were germanic and muh r1a-m458 is ancient.
that auslard that thought germanic were supreme beings.
and now nordicist get their dick chopped off.

>>77895951
I think the Pole's argument wasn't that Poles were Germanic, rather that the Slavic population preserved the pre-Slavic genetics to an extent which seems true since Poles seem to have a decent amount of I1 that's been now found in pre-Slavic contexts in Poland

>>77896112
maybe, there are few haploautist from poland on this board.

>>77895862
>most important influence in post-Classical Greeks came from the Ukraine

What do you mean? Was there substantial immigration from Ukraine to Greece?

>>77898745
I meant the early Slavs

>>77889857
"X are actually not X but Y" meme is dying out surprisingly. First Lebanese then Greeks. I like those retards getting rekt :DDD

>>77898869

I thought the input of Albanians (who have far less steppe ancestry than most other european peoples) was more significant. Albanian speaking enclaves survived pretty long in Greece IIRC. Either way, it seems questionable to make predictions about the genetic makeup of Mycenaean Greeks based on just four samples.

>>77899148
yes, what we see is overall continuity with some obvious change. that's why I'm sticking to Turks being likely Byzantine Anatolians + 20-25% Turkic rather than a complete replacement like some people think until I'm proven wrong

>>77899382
>input of Albanians
it's usually the output we're concerned

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>>77899414
Turks are a mix of Byzantine Anatolians and Seljuks mostly according to the Gedmatch results of Turks, mongoloid dna varies from 5% to 25% though, never goes above 25%.

Lol, why did the other guy create another thread
Does he really crave attention that much

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>>77899470
>Byzantine Anatolians
pretty hard to believe this is what Anatolians looked like

>>77899519
you probably missed Ikibey shitposting for a straight 4 hour spamming the thread

>>77899382
Albanians have similar steppe ancestry to Greeks and (obviously) more steppe ancestry than those ancient samples do. and no, Albanian input is much smaller and more geographically constrained and was already similar to Greeks, it survived to modern times because it was more recent

>it seems questionable to make predictions about the genetic makeup of Mycenaean Greeks based on just four samples

it's preliminary but it's better than making predictions based on early 20th century racialist theories and confirmation bias for sure though

either way, we have Minoan samples too and those odd internet theories of them being close to "Western Europeans" have been conclusively demolished so we can wait for more on the Mycenaean/later Greek front

>>77899554
the women could easily be seen in most of Greece and most of those people could easily pass in some islands and Anatolia would have been less European/darker/less white/whatever you prefer than the Balkans. no need to let any potential anti-Turkish sentiment bias you

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>>77899554
Byzantine Anatolians as in "Greeks who lived in modern day Turkey".
Also here's a better pic.

>>77899554
Protip: mountain people are ugly everywhere in the world

>>77899554
>you probably missed Ikibey shitposting for a straight 4 hour spamming the thread
So? I didn't see anyone else jumping ship.

I had to make a decision, and a decision I made.
while ikibey was busy 'arguing' and spamming in here with other non-Greeks we were having a chill thread. It worked, don't question me again.

>>77899766
as a leader I made that decision, vedi vidi vici

>>77899766
You are a coward.

>>77899414
that's also a form of "X are actually not X but Y"

What do western turks think about Yunanistan;

>>77900399
why are Greeks so obsessed with Western Turkey?
If you're looking for your "brothers" then i'm afraid they're not in there, you should look at Trabzon and Rize.

>>77900449
It's were my family lived before the population exchange
Just curious, no need to be upset.

>>77900314
Anatolian Turks by definition are a particular population with certain ethnolinguistic ties that came together at a certain period in time. so it can't be "really Y rather than X"

I mean yeah you'll see all sorts of weird arguments based on genetics and the like but what can you do about that. for reasonable people, they just elucidate certain historical processes

also fuck those double threads

>>77900791
ok
>>77900587
you're seen as culture thieves here.
some cucks like you though.

>>77900952
i wonder how old people would react if you show them wikipedia and tell them that turkey is culture thief

>>77901761
>wikipedia
any kind of genetic trash can edit/write articles there. why bother?

>>77900952
>you're seen as culture thieves here.
Wow, you actually have the audacity?

>>77900952
Hope your entire family dies of cancer desu

>>77902104
Come on dude, no need to go full on shqiptar

>>77902041
"Greek" is an insult here actually. Just like how "Armenian" is an insult in Eastern Turkey.
Melih Gökçek, mayor of Ankara, sued an Armenian guy who called him "Armenian"

>>77902003
only asians form groups to systematically change the truth

>>77902283
Yeah, but you actually call us Yunan, don't you?
Turk is an insult here too, τβη.Seems to be a common thing.

>>77902320
Rum/Yunan

>>77902283
A superiority complex is a psychological defense mechanism that compensates for an inferiority complex.

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The Latins (Latin: Latini), sometimes known as the Latians, were an Italic tribe which included the early inhabitants of the city of Rome. From about 1000 BC, the Latins inhabited the small region known to the Romans as Old Latium (Latium Vetus), that is, the area between the river Tiber and the promontory of Mount Circeo 100 kilometres (62 mi) SE of Rome.

The Latins were an Indo-European people who probably migrated into the Italian peninsula during the late Bronze Age (1200–900 BC). Their language, Latin, belonged to the Italic branch of Indo-European.

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i dont need this anymore

>>77894051

They'll be Saamis and we have to pay reparations.

>>77899575
It still seems very odd that Mycaeneans, who ultimately descend from the steppes if the dominant theory about IE-origin is correct, have just a bit more steppe ancestry than Minoans and a lot less than modern Greeks, who don't have much s. ancestry to begin with. It's plausible that Mycaeneans were pretty diverse when it came to ancestry, with some individuals descending predominantly from natives and others from the immigrating IEs, perhaps depending on the region.

>>77902347
>Rum
Aren't Rum just Muslim Greeks though?

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What do greeks think about this man?

>>77888360
i am a terrone therefore greek

>>77904564
Seems like a nice doge

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blocks your path

>>77904564
It's not like he came out of the blue. animosity between Greeks and Latins had been stewing for many centuries before Enrico put the final nail in the coffin.

>>77904564
Used to hate him, until I found out ow he died. Dude was insane

this shithole is too hot
too hot