Why are people against EU army? We could be as powerful as USA

>>77455509
Because it's incapable as a deterrent unless you produce nukes

>>77455509
Stfu you fucking shill.
Power equals attention and attention means more problems. Get that into your shitfilled skull

>Why are people against EU army?
Because people from the countries of the EU don't feel connections with the other ones.

Tell to a French if he cares about Croatia, tell him if he even knows where is Croatia...

>We could be as powerful as USA
Do you mean the USA are a contestant? If yes, then again, a French feels more connected to Americans than Eastern Europeans and even Western Europeans.

we have no enemies & wars are not the way to mediate in a conflict

>>77455588
You dont need an Army the size of US for deterrent.
It's for protecting our waterways and for ensuring our interests in European neighbourhood (Africa and Middle East)

>>77455509
Because the EU is terrible and needs to die

>>77455509
>We could be as powerful as USA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>77455701
The US military presence is Europe is very low compared to troops Europe has. Europe could defeat them in 30 minutes. But they act as a deterrent because the US is involved in the war against EU. You can't duplicate NATO unless Germany starts making nukes.

>>77455737
we have same GDP as USA, so no reason we couldn't have same size army.
We could be even more powerful if we ally with Russia

>>77455681
>Tell to
Ask a

>tell him
Ask him

Sorry

>>77455509
>we

>>77455681
>Do you mean the USA are a contestant?
Not necessary. But the recent US election showed that US citizens are not willing to play world police anymore, so we europeans have to look that we take care of our defense ourselves

>>77455509
You're not getting an army you fucking faggots

>>77455509
because we hate USA but we hate Europe even more, fuck europe and you all european niggers, die with pain fuckers

>>77455509
Because Hitler is not the leader of the EU!
Sadly.

>>77455822
We could easily make nukes if the situation demanded for that, we have the technology and the necessary economical power.
And France has nukes already

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>>77455898
we have somebody better than hitler

>>77455833
Ok, are you ready to man it and pay for it?

>>77455737
They could technically be very powerful. But how many Germans would currently want to pay for nukes?

Why are krauts so enamoured with the EU? Why are they so brainwashed when EU propaganda is strictly illegal in schools etc?

>>77455994
>EU propaganda is not allowed in schools

Pffttthahahahahahaha
They praise the EU in our politics classes like it's the best thing ever

>>77455509
Apparently it's because we hate each other.

French hate everyone that isn't French.
Germany hates everyone to the east of themselves and has bitter resentment towards everyone else.
Spain, Italy, Greece etc hate the northern European countries for the humiliation they've been put through.
Etc. etc.

There may be individual europeans that feel connected to other europeans, be it from personal experience or because of their idealism, but it seems the general consensus is that we hate each other and need to fuck each other over at every opportunity.

>>77455509
Because its another step closer to a federal EU I guess

>>77455509
they are dumb and brainwashed. if the EU had its own army you would be less dependent on NATO and America in general. you'd finally stop being sissy castrated America's bitch. but some of the EU cunts (mostly small and irrelevant) oppose that idea, they enjoy having Yank cock deep inside their asses. pathetic losers.
i am personally 100% in favour of creating a strong and independent EU army.
what about you, guys?

>>77455509
>We
fuck off

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>>77455509
>as powerful as the USA

>>77455964
sure, if the military acts in our interest and protects our economic assets and investments.
germany already pays a ton for a military that is completely useless, so why not pay a bit more for an army that actually does something?

>>77455915
Exactly. If Germany can fend for the EU then the EU army would be the thing. It's a greater economy than the US is.

>>77455509
>We could be as powerful as USA
With "powerful" you mean an Israel proxy? Because that's what the US army is.

And guess who is lobbying for the EU army: Jews.

>>77456229
Are you okay with dying for Poland or the Baltics? If not you, then your professional servicemen?

Theoretically they'd be doing this under NATO as well, but...

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>>77455509
>could

Yeah if the likes of Germany pulls its finger out of its arse, much of your military equipment is either in storage or cannot be used. An EU army would just be France+. Regardless the UK will continue to work with its European allies even when we leave the EU, we'll be refuelling yours ships in the years to come.

>>77455833
>We could be even more powerful if we ally with Russia
Ivan please. russia is a corrupted totalitarian shithole. it would be a huge mistake for the EU to get closer with russia. if anything the EU and all the european countries should distance themselves from russia as much as possible and to impose even more sanctions on russia to make it even weaker

>>77456090
>fuck each other over at every opportunity.

Why go that far when we can just not give a shit?

>>77456229
Ok, say goodbye to your wirtschaftswunder 2.0 and budget surplus. A good army is an awfully expensive thing to have.

>>77456388
Sanctions against Russia are fine until Germany needs a pipeline

>>77456343
your post seems to imply a defensive war against russia.
That's not what we would need a big army for.
If Russia was really a big thread, we could just build a lot of nukes. But if we want to project power in Africa and middle east, we need to be able to fight terrorist there and grant military support to governments who are on our side

>>77456388
russia is a corrupted totalitarian shithole that has two things going for itself: natural resources and military
if we ally with russia we secure our access to natural resources and a military alliance increases our power projection and secures our eastern flank. I can only see benefits for europe

>>77456430
meh, i think if each of us contributed 2% gdp to a common european army, we could have easily a military that is more than enough for power projection in our neighbourhood

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EU army? You mean the French army plus all the conscripted connan fodder from eastern Europe under German command. Geez i wonder why anyone would be against that.

>>77456727
why are you so negative?
you are the only powerful military in eu, other than france, and you left us ;_;

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>>77456388
go back to ukraine

>>77455509
There are many reasons, but I'd say the most reasonable one is one that's already been observed: Austria-Hungary's multi-lingual, multi-cultural military had horrible morale, unit cohesion, and overall combat effectiveness
The only thing an EU Army would accomplish would be being a pretty little army with absolutely no use whatsoever, a drain of resources for the Union members and a waste of time for all soldiers involved, mainly because the EU has no enemies except the members of it

Why do you feel the need to compete with the US militarily?

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>>77456609
>if we ally with russia we secure our access to natural resources and a military alliance increases our power projection and secures our eastern flank. I can only see benefits for europe

>>77456652
The US is spending 3,3% of GDP and is in large debt. The EU economies are incredibly indebted already. Italy for one can't afford more spending. France is cutting its military right now. You are free-riding NATO and hating the US for protecting you. Greece is spending on the army and look how it turned out for them.

What European countries need is a reform from the incredibly socialistic economies, not another grand project that's going to cost billions.

because doing peng peng sounds and using broomsticks doesn't entrust people on relying on it

>>77456875
yeah but USA has the ambition to project its power all around the globe.
We don't want such thing, we just want to keep our neighbourhood safe.

And considering that the likes of Trump get elected in USA, we no longer can rely on them for security

>>77455509
because taxpayers think it is too expensive
you are taxed to death anyway
so we have to do your job and keep europe and the world in peace for you

>>77456875
>muh nato is keeping us alive
kys

>>77456950
but your citizens aren't willing to support the imperialistic ambitions of your elites anymore.
That's why people vote for candidates like Trump who says america first

>>77456931
>we no longer can rely on them for security

Just pay your dues and stop pissing him off.

>>77456966
It is

>>77455509
because as long as we are NATO slaves there is no way to antagonize amerimongrels

>>77457036
true. but it is not imperialistic ambitions. you have to do something about the shitskins
and trump is a fucking retard who doesn't give a shit about america. but that's a different story

>>77456609
>we secure our access to natural resources
there is literally no need for that since russia's economy is based in selling natural resources to europe and russia is the one who is the most interested in it.
not to mention most of russia's military is outdated soviet crap that barely works (just look at russia's ONLY aircraft carrier, it looks like it'd fall apart any moment). russia is a paper tiger when it comes to real war but if the EU allies with russia, the latter might try to destabilise the EU to make it less stable and easier to control. the EU should never ever ally sneaky dictatorships like russia

>>77456821

The EU is a political and economic bloc, not a military alliance. We have NATO for that. Your government is just pushing the EU army so hard because of the criticism its getting in NATO, which to be fair is valid though not to the degree Trumps taking it.

>>77456966
he is right though. but the EU can get rid of that cuckoldry by creating its own strong military

>>77457086
come on, you guys are 56% and give us shit about brown people? really?

>and trump is a fucking retard who doesn't give a shit about america. but that's a different story
he is a symptom, but the cause is that many americans feel left behind by globalism and want a more protectionist/isolated country.
And we who so far have dependet on USA for security need do see the signs and react accordingly.

>>77457070
>Just pay your dues and stop pissing him off.
you really wanna be an usa vassal state?

>>77457070
>Dues
We're not extorting countries

The 2% NATO meme is their spending on their OWN military, not on NATO

It's a guideline, not a rule for membership

>>77457196
I don't see any EU tax money coming here bud, but we've got millions of US tax going out to Europe so...

>>77457102
Russia has the second strongest military in the world (with USA beeing the undisputed number 1).
The conflict in Syria has shown that Russia can project its power like no other country, other than USA.
And sure, your aircraft carrier is shit, but only because russia has no access to a warm water habour, so it makes no sense to invest in a strong navy.

> but if the EU allies with russia, the latter might try to destabilise the EU to make it less stable and easier to control
i doubt this would happen, since as you said, Russia relies on economic ties with EU and it would be bad idea to piss EU off

>>77457196
Beats being an EU vassal state. Atleast there is still some stigma to being called a socialist in the US, Western Europe embraces it.

>>77457263
I know

>>77457148
>>77457070
Tito told Stalin to fuck off, the USSR didn't do shit. Go fuck yourself with your Russian boogeyman.

>>77457103
but nato is a defensive alliance.
if we want to project power in modern world, we need another organization. And since we are all membrs of a common economic bloc, and have similar interests, it would make sense to have a common army

I'm kinda conflicted about the idea of an eu army, and I'm not sure it would be even possible for the French army to merge with a foreign army. I guess the same goes for all countries so... yeah

>>77457322
do not reply to nIKIta you silly

>>77457263
I hope you are not implying USA defends Europe out of pure alturism.
Sure, we don't pay you direct tributes, but you get many benefits like using European countries as military bases, or soft power over our countries.

>>77457324
How does it beat that? Within EU, you are a citizen with equeal rights to Germans or French. You are able to live in any country you desire and can get into political office and a position of power.
None of it is true if you are an US vassal

>>77457160
so you don't understand the difference between latinos and muslim terrorist scum?

>>77455509
finally Germany is going to complete the mission for centurie.

>>77457534
you have way more black people than we do, so lets not split hair

>>77457459
>with equeal rights to Germans or French

Lol, tell that to French or German police.

>you are able to live in any country you desire

They are all full of socialism and shitskins. Atleast Americans are still somewhat proud of their country (as can be seen by electing Trump).

>>77457357

I can think of 2 maybe 3 countries in the EU that need to project power beyond their borders and all of them have the capabilities to do so. If the German state want to project power then its up to them to build aircraft carriers and lease bases oversea.

>>77457322
>The conflict in Syria has shown that Russia can project its power like no other country, other than USA.
not really. it's just that russia is the only country that was interested in intervening in that war since syrian government is the last chance for russia to have any influence in the middle east. the war in syria hurts russia's economy quite hard already, and nobody knows how the war will end. russia might lose everything.
>Russia relies on economic ties with EU and it would be bad idea to piss EU off
russia is already trying to destabilise the EU by supporting and funding people and parties like national front, afd and etc. everyone knows that. but since the EU isn't russia's ally russia doesn't have that much access to inner european circles. but if the EU and russia get closer it would change and russia might hurt the EU even more

>>77457459
It would be idiotic to waste money on whiners like you out of "altruism"
>Many benefits
Such as?
Having a military presence in Europe only is useful for campaigns in the Middle East, which has become so incredibly unpopular (Excusing ISIS) that many consider having a foot in Europe to be a net loss, which might be why many in Washington are toying with the notion of dissolving NATO

>>77457337
No expert but I think that might be because Tito didn't try to challenge Stalin, just merely disregarded Stalin's pretension
And so you may bring up Tito, but I play my trump card of Hungary

>>77457652
>If the German state want to project power then its up to them to build aircraft carriers and lease bases oversea.

Germans can't do that, that would be warlike and aggressive!!!

>>77457337
yugaslavia as a whole was stronger than those tiny eastern european countries that we have now. remember what had happened to czechoslovakia in 1968? the same will happen to latvia, lithuania, estonia, bulgaria and probably romania if nato ceases to exist

>>77457652
currently, Europe has a huge problem with refugee crisis and muslim terrorists.
If we had a proper military, we could defeat ISIS and other such radical groups, and we would have enough power projection in africa to convice certain countries to take our refugees
We suffer because despite all our wealth, we have no stick to back up our demands

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>>77457809
>If we had a proper military, we could defeat ISIS and other such radical groups

>>77457678
They didn't really like each other

>>77457786
What does Putin gain from invading Bulgaria?

>>77457670
>not really. it's just that russia is the only country that was interested in intervening in that war since syrian government is the last chance for russia to have any influence in the middle east. the war in syria hurts russia's economy quite hard already, and nobody knows how the war will end. russia might lose everything.
France tried to intrevene in Lybia and failed, they needed to call USA for help. Russias success in Syria is by no means to be taken for granted, and it greatly increased Russias prestiges as a miltary power. Many EU countries are now talking about cooperating with Russia in Syria.

>russia is already trying to destabilise the EU by supporting and funding people and parties like national front, afd and etc. everyone knows that.
Russia is not some evil power, it inteferes in EU elections because if it feels threatened by EU. If Russia and EU were allies, Russia obiviously wouldn't try to damage its allies.

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The main thing is we must protect Estonia.

>>77457678
I dont understand why you are so angry.
If you dont want to spend money on "whiners" like me, you should be happy that I support an EU army, which would make us rely less on you

>>77457584
err, what are we arguing about again?
blacks can chimp out on a local level
but they are not a national security threat.
you kinda changed the topic and turned it into a racial discussion.
your thread is about needing the army to protect national security. and you are baiting me with le 56% meme.

>>77455509
Why do you want to be powerful, Hans?

>>77455509
Because we have nothing in common. Imagine a scenario like having to fight and die for the greek Cypriots vs Turkey and the turkish cypriots.

Not very tempting.

>>77458014
didn't you start this side-discussion with
>you have to do something about the shitskins

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>>77455509
>We

>>77457975
<3

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>>77457416
What's the point of merging when we already have alliances which are currently in affect and we continue to work together and cooperate in militarily exercises.

>>77458028
to defend ourselves, and to make the world a better place

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>>77457975

>>77458090
From whom?

>>77458073
because it would be much more efficient if we spend the same amount of money on one armey, rather on 28.
It would eliminate a whole lot of redundancy

>>77457809

Its not an issue of having a proper army, it simply a complicated sitution. We cant go into Syria with out pissing the Russians off and that where ISIS and friends are hanging out. Iraq is different we could go there but no european nation wants to recommit to that shitshow short of a hand full of SF.

>>77457958
more access to the black sea and a land border with serbia

>>77458002
>Angry
lol
>you should be happy that I support an EU army
I think it's been established that I don't like the idea of a government (Or economic union for that matter) wasting money on pointless endeavors
Unless you have something to use that army for it isn't worth a damn
What's the reason for making one other than """power projection"""
>which would make us rely less on you
You don't rely on us at all

>>77458169
currently, we are facing great challenges of islamic terrorism and refugee crisis.
I think we cant solve those problems without beeing able to project power to africa and middle east
who knows which other threats await us in future?

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>>77457959
France asked us for help in Syria, and we obliged. The RAF have ended up doing more bombings than the French airforce.

>>77458061
but that's what you are wondering about too?
having an army to defend you against shitskin terrorism? how is it a side discussion?

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>>77455509
Austria-Hungary

>>77458202
I don't think Russia would have anything against EU troops in Syria as long as we dont try to topple Assad.
When we have the common goal to fight ISIS, I am sure they would welcome our contributions.

I just find it really ridicilous that such a wealthy union like EU is completely toothless even against such a weak organization as ISIS, and we have to let Russia and USA do our job

>>77458228
>Unless you have something to use that army for it isn't worth a damn
To protect our ships in international water
To protect our investments in african countries
To fight terrorism in middle eastern countries

Those are just a few reasons EU would need an army

>>77458203
aha, so Crimea is not enough, for some reason you need land around the black sea, gotchya

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>UK trains 5000 Ukrainian troops

Don't worry we've got this.

>>77457809
The problem is unwillingnes on the part of the politicians, not lack of military.

>>77458243
You don't have to conquer Africa to stop Africans from coming.
I'm pretty sure it really wouldn't take that many forces to guard the coastlines and not let the N(ig)GO shipments in. The problem is not the lack of armed forces, it's the politicians unwilling to use them.

>>77457959
>If Russia and EU were allies, Russia obiviously wouldn't try to damage its allies.
i honestly doubt it. like any other totalitarian police state russia would do anything to fully dominate all its "allies".

and about syria, let's just wait and see how it will end. my bet is america will finally start bombing syrian government forces and come out as a winner

>>77458256
by "shitskin terrorism", you mean terrorists in EU countries, or ISIS in middle east?

>>77458311

The problem there is for the past 6 years our media has painted Assad as the devil incarnate. Now how would it look for our various nations if suddenly we invaded Syria but let the babykiller Assad stay in power?

>>77458371
>you need land around the black sea
exactly. taking over ukraine would be a russia's goal as well if it wasn't for west's support for ukraine and sanctions

>>77458375
Now why would you do that? It's like teaching apes how to shoot a gun.
Actually nevermind that "like", it literally is teaching apes how to shoot a gun.

>>77458413
both actually since they are related
if EU had an army, it would probably get engaged in the middle east to a certain extent. and that would help curb terrorism in the EU itself.

>>77458395
The problem is that refugee crisis is not a one time thing. With the climate change and the politics in Africa, we can expect much more refugees in the future.
That's why we need a military to safeguard economical development in at least some African countries, which then become pull factors for economic migrants and prevent them from coming to Europe

>>77458528
yes, thats one of the reasons why i want an EU army.
The other reason is that somebody has to create stability in Africa

This german dilusion reminds me of the molotov ribbentrop pact.

Germany wants a bigass army -check
The army would consist of other europeans, but germamy would be in charge - check
Allied with russia - check.

>>77458472
The media painted Assad in a bad light because we are in NATO and thus we are influenced by American interests (who wanted to topple Assad).
If we had our own army, we would have no reason to support American politics in middle east

>>77458599
>germamy would be in charge
yes because looking at other EU cunts, they should be in charge of everything related to your continent, not just the army

>>77458504
> Polish subhuman calling his ukrainian masters apes
Get back in the oven

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>>77458070

>>77458173
>It would eliminate a whole lot of redundancy

>coordinating 28 country militaries
>creating a separate HQ from NATO
>not redundant

You just want NATO without Americans, admit it

>>77458599
There is no political will for a strong army in Germany, so no, Germany wouldn't be in charge.
It is probably more likely that France would be the military leader of EU.
Other than that, what exactly is bad about alliance with Russia? Estonia is one of the countries who would profit most from it, because then Estonians dont need to fear invasion, and they can increase their trade with Russia

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>>77455509
Putas e vinho verde. The south will never forget this.

>>77458667
why do they need so many lions, to scare the enemy? is it like evil anime?

>>77458695
NATO is a defensive alliance.
I want an army that can be used offensively

>>77458737
Then build it and don't force other countries to do it with you

>>77458355
>Protect ships
Against who?
Somali pirates?
They've been on the decline for years now bud
Moreover an army is on land, a navy is on sea, and MSPA already handles piracy in international waters
>Protect "investments"
Against who?
And what investments does Europe still possibly have in Africa?
I'm aware France fights Islamic terrorists in West Africa but that seems to be more of a general peacekeeping operation than protecting corporate interests of a multi-national economic union
>Fight Terrorism
Why are you so eager to jump into the Islamic reformation with men from nations not your own and who have no interest in participating in it?
You're not going to be a hero or save the world by removing some scum from it

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>>77458737
>I want an army that can be used offensively
Yeah, and that's what scares the rest of Europe. A war in Europe would be great for us, though. We'll sell to both sides, and then side with the victor towards the end.

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>>77458646

>If we had our own army, we would have no reason to support American politics in middle east

Hey guys remember that lad who gassed a bunch of people? Yeh? Well now we have an EU army we are gunna let him stay in power and help him get rid of the insurgents in his country.
The masses will definitely go for that, good plan.

get rid of the occupying americans first and starting arming yourself then, start spending your money

>>77455681
>, a French feels more connected to Americans than Eastern Europeans and even Western Europeans.

cuck

>>77458815
>Against who?
pirates or countries that could try to block our trade

>I'm aware France fights Islamic terrorists in West Africa but that seems to be more of a general peacekeeping operation than protecting corporate interests of a multi-national economic union
Its both. French economy massilvy benefits from beeing able to invest in those countries. Imagine the benefits for the whole EU economy if we would be able to ensure security in even more African countries.

>Why are you so eager to jump into the Islamic reformation with men from nations not your own and who have no interest in participating in it?
Because, as you probably know, we have a big muslim population in Europe, and it is in our best interest to fight radical islam in its source, before it spreads to Europe

>>77458924
We've been allies for over two centuries.

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>>77458714
We need more deers

>>77458819
It wouldn't be a German army
It would be an army of the whole EU

>>77458848
France would probably be in charge of that army, since militarism is far more popular there than it is in Germany

>>77459033
>It wouldn't be a German army
The EU is German.

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sorry shlomoshekelstein


Im on to your dirty underhanded kike tricks

>>77458988
>security in even more African countries

How are we going to profit from that? Natural resources? We can already get that from them. Money? They don't have any. Manpower? Fuck you, EE is already manufacturing center, no more shifting.

>>77459137
yes, natural resources and cheap labour

Forget EU army, EU foreign policy needs to come first.
The army reform should focus on standards and integration of forces with each other rather than making a new thing. It should also pay RandD so EU can have relevant technology to produce for it self.

>>77458652
go fuck yourself you dumb afro nigger


go hang out in a mena thread scumbag


or better yet drown trying to illegally get to yurope

>>77459159
So you want to invest taxpayer's money and lives so private companies and foreign governments can come in profit from it and you want to shift production from already cheap eastern europe to africa where there is hardly any infrastructure and niggers with no work morale.

This site is 18+ if you don't know.

>>77458988
>Pirates
Who aren't mobilizing and who are already countered by international coalitions because their presence is a threat to all trade
>Countries who try to block your trade
Name one please

>Imagine the benefits
Listen don't beat around the bush, admit you're interested in colonialism and want to use fellow EU states as a means of starting the second Scramble for Africa against China

>before it spreads to Europe
It's been in Europe for almost as long as it has existed friend, you can't stop a cancer from spreading if it's in every mosque already
In case you haven't realized though, poking at the problem in the middle east tends to get the radicals in your country up in arms, and I'm sure your government is listening judging from all the bollards that are getting installed to prevent jihadi vans

>>77459281
>>>/oven/

>>77459294
people get paid by private companies, if companies prosper, so do people.
And eastern europe wont stay cheap forever, eventually, their wages will become as high as in the west and europeans will need a new source of cheap labour

>>77459367
You fir...oh, you already live there

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>>77459367
(you)

>he actually keeps pics of shit on his computer and looks at it every time he posts it
the degeneracy levels on this board is mind boggling

>>77459403
>take money away from people
>to give it to companies
>so they can pay a part of it to people

>eastern europe won't stay cheap forever

Considering the owners of those factories are German, those wages are never going to be as high as Germany. Unless of course we become a target of white-flight.

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>>77459516
here's one for you too.

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>>77459367
Don't talk to white people like that, boy.

...even if they are Slavs...

>>77459879
Im turk actually.

oh and fuck the greek too

>>77457357
>German starts talking about needing to project power

Do it again Bomber Harris

>>77460076
I am a Greek

>>77457324
>le evil socialist EU
>>77457459
>le evil US military presence

ah the tragic tradeoff of democracy

>>77455509
>German flag
every time

>>77460306
well then fuck you

>>77458551
>we should invade and subjugate ____ for the sake of Evropean people!
I think I've heard it somewhere already
>>77458652
So much wrong in one little post

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>>77460320
>democracy


democracy is a trojan horse kikes like to use to position themselves behind the goyim in order to slit his throat.

ever wonder why israel keeps calling themselves the only democracy in the ME?

because all the ragheads already know whats up

>>77460320
>le evil socialist EU

Go read it again
http://www.pavel-kohout.cz/clanky/kdyby-breznev-byl-o-trochu-chytrejsi

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>>77460456
Sacrafice your foreskin to Yahweh vile creature, or feel the wrath of God

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Would you Europeans feel ok with slashing social benefits in favor for increasing military spending? Would you guys start volunteering more like the U.S and U.K or would you have to resort to conscription?

I honestly don't think a EU army would be very effective.

>>77455509
Why not just apply for US statehood if you're so obsessed with taking stupid short-sided measures that undermine your sovereignty to make you as powerful as the US? Everybody can be as powerful as the US if everybody IS the US.

The fact is that Germany could be one of the world's premier military powers if it wanted to be, but it's not because you don't want to put the money and time into doing so. Erasing a bunch of smaller states and haphazardly gluing them to yourself to make you look stronk and scary isn't going to accomplish anything.

>>77460516
wtf is a yahweh?

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>>77460667
Name of the God of the Jews

>>77460470
>giving clicks to an ideological retard

>>77460705
>god


no such thing


but never the less still a good excuse to make yourself priveleged about everyone else.

>>77455509
>We
Yes, Germany would be powerful enough to completely crush what little resistance the other EU countries can muster to their aggressive economic policy and could start forcing them onto other non-EU states. That's why other EU nations aren't too keen on it

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>>77460782
Debatable but what is there to debate really?

And excuses only get one so far, you must admit that the Jewish people have worked awfully hard to get to their positions
Reward their merit with praise and not ropes and perhaps they will grow content enough to stop putting on negative influences from their positions of strength

>>77460753
Ok, EU shill

>>77460870
as one fanboy to another, I recommend you to use critical thinking from time to time and not just devour praxeology

>>77460866
>you must admit that the Jewish people have worked awfully hard to get to their positions
Oh, this should be good...

>>77460914
>advocates critical thinking while shilling for the most blindly idealistic project Europe has seen so far

Oh the ironing

>>77455509
We don't want an EU army because we know that the eternal Kraut will be the one controlling it, and we all know how that would play out

>>77461249
we are the good guys now, you can trust us

>>77461785
Said the fox to the rabbit

>>77461832
we have been peaceful for over 70 years now
it is clear that we learned our lesson

>>77456860
He is in Ukraine! You took it over remember Ivan!

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>>77461249
We're constantly doing military exercises in Germany with our German allies. Not sure an EU army would be a total good thing though.

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>>77461949
that's literally what you said last time.

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>>77461949
>We've learned our lesson
>Advocating invading the Middle East to purge anti-western governments and rebellions and instating pro-western puppets
>Advocating the domineering of Africa and establishing banana republics across the continent

>We've learned our lesson

>>77455509
Why are people against unified EU state?
We could be as powerful as USA, If not stronger

>>77462100
No competition = stagnation.

The only reason Europe became the powerhouse it is today is because we're proud competitive, and always want to one-up the people near to us. If you fuck that up, you fuck up Europe.

>>77462076
no, last time we said
>muh unfair versailles treaty
>muh stab in the back

>>77462093
look, we tried to let africans develop their own civilization and it clearly didn't work out.
also, i am not suggesting invading sovereign african nations. what i had in mind is helping african countries to fight terrorists and rebels and to provide for security that will make those countries more attractivce for western invesetment.
of course, that will make the countries dependant on EU, but hey, we would spend tons of money on them, so it would be only fair

>>77462208
we also used to kill each other like there is no tomorrow
you really wanna go back to those days?

>>77462208
There's no competition within the current EU either.
And i suppose you havent comsidered the fact that 90% of wars have been due to People trying to one-up another.
Napoleonic wars, both world wars, all happened due to someone thinking they're superior to someone else.

>>77462337
>all happened due to someone thinking they're superior to someone else

They also happened because that someone wanted to unite Europe

>>77462284
We don't need to be a country - we are already a very close-knit group of countries already -
we don't need another flag for that. Why isn't a simple trade deal enough? Why do you want regulation and bureaucracy when the EEC was fine before?

>>77462337
Of which Germany was responsible for starting two world wars. Do not equate competition with world domination.

>>77455509
>supporting an army that serves a government that wishes the destruction of native europeans
no thx

>>77462385
i just think we would be stronger and more influential in the world if we had a common army and foreign policy

>>77455509
>>77462100
The EU's combined economy ($16 trillion) is smaller than that of the US ($18 trillion), and you're also far less willing to spend as much on the military as we are. How many European countries meet the 2% of GDP on the military target? Five?

There's also a general lack of trust between many European countries that makes a unified military unlikely except in cases of extreme emergency (like if Russia decided to invade tomorrow). NATO's command structure is as close as you can get.

>>77462385
Competition was Still the underlying cause.
Hitler didnt just want a unified german state without any additional motives. A large part of it was showing off the ( false ) superiority of the aryan race, and germany in general.

>>77462447
We have NATO for security purposes, and foreign policy doesn't work for everyone under the same blanket. For example, Croatia and Germany would need vastly different foreign/domestic economic/societal policy because they are completely different countries.

You lot made the same mistake with the Euro - a one-size-fits-all economic policy was a disaster for the exact same reason.

>>77462244
>look, we tried to let africans develop their own civilization and it clearly didn't work out
It was working pretty well up until the slave trade collapsed, i.e. most of Africa's Kingdoms' economies just got skullfucked and the Scramble for Africa so on so forth

When Colonialism "died" European nations took a LOT of economic resources with them and effectively pulled the rug out from these African nations again

And you're not giving merit to those African nations that have done well for themselves post-colonialism

Using the excuse of "They're underdeveloped so let's exploit them" is not beneficial to either party and in the end accomplishes much less than simply working to encourage their economic growth to the point where you can compete with the nations you built up

>i am not suggesting invading sovereign african nations
Are there non-sovereign African nations you have in mind?

>Stabilize the region for economic prosperity of Western nations seeking a piece of the pie
Or perhaps just for stability's sake you monster
Olive branches mean nothing to you do they?

>Yeah we'll just spend tons of money "developing" their country so they owe us one :)
Eternal Teuton

>At Frankfurt airport
>Customs is backed up, as usual
>Automated EU citizen line is open
>People just standing around
>Lady says EU citizens can go here
>Italian asks "Italia?"
>Yes Italy is in the EU lady responds
>Still looks confused "Italia?"
>I say Si and then they move
>Croatia?
>Yes any EU citizens!
>Ok Croatia?

This happened for the 15 minutes I waited at the customs line.. how the fuck are you going form an army..

>>77462553
NATO is a defensive alliance, it doesn't help anybody to project power (other than USA)
And since we are all in the same single market, I do believe that our foreign interests are quiet similiar

>>77462502
but what if we ally with Russia?
I bet then we could be even stronger than America, given the political will which, I admit, is currently lacking

>>77462542
His flaunting Germany was more an ideological testament to the National Socialist model
As for actual competition Germany achieved little outside of warfare at the time because "Every business must be used to benefit the state :^)"

>>77462606
>I do believe that our foreign interests are quiet similiar

Really? You think Austria is concerned with Mali the way France is, or Spain is worried about Russia the way Poland and the Baltic states are?

>>77462572
>It was working pretty well up until the slave trade collapsed
wtf? they were either living in stone age, or getting iron from europeans and genociding/enslaving other tribes

>Are there non-sovereign African nations you have in mind?
Countries like Mali, who currently benefit from French military intervention. French troops were officially invited by the Mali government and Mali people welcome French support

>Or perhaps just for stability's sake you monster
>Olive branches mean nothing to you do they?
Let's be realistic, nobody is gonna invest a huge amount of money and the lives of its soldiers without getting anything in return.
Providing security and integrating those countries into European supply chain sounds like a fair deal to me

>>77462747
>You think Austria is concerned with Mali the way France is
If Austrian companies would also benefit from special deals in Mali, certanly.

>Spain is worried about Russia the way Poland and the Baltic states are
Not to that degree, but Spain also wouldn't stand idle if Russia invaded EU

>>77462606
A large part of the problem is language difference. Maybe in a few hundred years when every European language apart from English is extinct maybe the EU could work :^)

>>77462656
An alliance with Russia wouldn't be something that Eastern European countries would tolerate, and it would kind of defeat the purpose of a unified EU in the first place. Europeans won't just surrender all sovereignty because it's fun, there needs to be a threat that makes them be willing to unify. Just like how the US had Britain, France, and later Mexico to worry about in its early days (and even the country barely held together).

>>77462842
Why would the people of Austria be so eager to help their companies access the rich, thriving economies of dirt-poor West African countries that they would surrender their sovereignty and risk their lives? Do you remember what happened the last time Austria was under threat? They folded faster than a woman playing poker.

>We could be as powerful as USA
No, even if it happenned now it would take decades to get on the level of the US army and investing twice as much as them which is ridicoulously high, no one wants to pay for that.

Also, who would decide where to intervene?
>Russia does something
>Poland/Baltic nations : OMG we need to pack the troops at the border
> Italy/Greece/Romania : No, Russia is a bro we do not do anything

> war in some irrelevant african country
> France : let's intervene
> rest of europe : who gives a shit

> migrant crisis in the Med
> Italy/Greec : we must move the navy there to prevent the flow of migrants
>Sweden/Germany : No that's racist

It would be absolutly unmanageable

>>77462852
Just look at us, we are communicating in english no problem.
I am sure that european children growing up today will be able to speak English almost as good as their mother language

>>77462747
>You think Austria is concerned with Mali the way France is

Dunno about Austria but the RAF helped France out by flying their heavy equipment to Mali because they lacked the planes capable of doing it. All under the the same umbrella as fighting terrorism of course.

>>77462854
europe is an single market for mutual economic benefit.
it is not a defense alliance against russia, thats nato

>>77463047
I admire your cooperative tone, but until the southern and eastern European countries catch up to us economically (which may never happen) it wouldn't be worth it.

What you're proposing is akin to a government nationalising every company and controlling it themselves - but where is it controlled from?

>>77463296
that's why i think we need an europe of separate speeds.
the countries that are ready begin with integration, while others are given time to catch up

>What you're proposing is akin to a government nationalising every company and controlling it themselves - but where is it controlled from?
I would argue its more akin to all the small german states uniting to Germany

>>77462754
How uneducated are you?
West and East Africa have had tribal Kingdoms for a long time

Not all were feudal ones but still a system of organization that's been present for quite some time there

>Invited
You said nothing of invitations
Moreover why then would Mali invite the EU to peacekeep?
They can at least speak some French

France will leave when their mission is done, will the EU bother to if it means that their economic investments and interests could potentially come under threat?

>Let's be realistic, nobody is gonna invest a huge amount of money and the lives of its soldiers without getting anything in return
Remember what nation you're talking to buddy?
>Providing security and integrating those countries into European supply chain sounds like a fair deal to me
But when the US did it it was bad, ok gotcha
>We'll guard the goldmines, you get to work them, we reap the profits, everyone benefits!
Lunacy

>>77462579
loled

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Remember.

Every anti-EU post is an Pro-Putin post.

>>77463850
What's every neutral EU pot?

>>77463918
Advocacy for anti-Putin opposition obviously

>>77463752
>Remember what nation you're talking to buddy?
i was unsure if you were trolling until you wrote that

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>>77464025
Why would I possibly take an EU Federalist seriously

And why can you never rebuke any of my silly observations about your pisspoor attempt at justifying the existence of an army without unified cause, allegiance, or language, composed on non-consenting nations?

>>77455509
Do it faggot. Noones stopping you.

>>77464131
I could, but i have the feeling that you are trolling me and my effort would be wasted on your jesting

>>77455509
because its a a thinly veiled German power grab that makes an "economic union" that much closer to a full blown Fourth Reich: Caliphate Bugaloo?

Do Germans actually believe everyone else can't see why they are pushing for it so hard?
Its easy to be in favor for more power of a Union that you ultimately control.
Hence why Russians love the SU, but pretty much every other country that got loped into it, doesn't.

why? because Russia was ultimately in control and it was awesome for them.
Same thing with Germany's EU.

>>77464172
all the other EU countries except France are stopping them desu

lol why would any country allow germanic LOSERS to lead them in some sort of military alliance.

you had your chance to shine, fuckign krauts, all youve shown everyone is that yous are fucking scumbag LOSERS


no one is going to listen to yous


much less trust yous

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>>77464211
If you are incapable of proving jests wrong does that not stand to show that the subject matter is a joke itself?

>>77455509
Why would I ever want foreign soldiers in my country?

If you continentals want to do it, feel free but we're staying firmly out of it.

>>77455873
>But the recent US election showed that US citizens are not willing to play world police anymore
Yeah I'm sure that it had nothing to do with you guys bitching at us since 2003 to stop being the world police.

Then the moment we get a politician who leans toward isolationism, you complain.

Jesus fucking christ, Euros get on my nerves. I completely understand why George Washington said that "entangling alliances" were for queers.

>>77464273
Dave, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye

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>>77455509
>We could be as powerful as USA

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH!!!!!

>>77464378
Oh, I am sorry we didn't participate in your illegal war of agression that helped to create ISIS

>>77455509
I admit. Im a federalizationist and i think it would be a good idea.

But we need to fucking close the borders first.
We can't have a leaking EU with no border control which takes in millions of economic migrants.

Also, ECB needs to go a lot softer on fucked up nations like greece. Just print money and give to them, i don't see what the problem is.

As it is now, they would have been better off with their own currency, because then they would have been able to print money themselves.

>>77460602
>this post got 0 replies
every time

>>77463363
>I would argue its more akin to all the small german states uniting to Germany
It really isn't. You had the German people and you've a common language (barring regional variances). There isn't any "European people" and nor do we share a common language.

>>77464432
>illegal war of aggression
being the world police

Now we're stopping, and you pick up the whining. I'm sick of it.

>>77460602
>conscription
We already have conscription here. They tried to abolish it, but it didn't work.

The way it should probably work is that every country provides a number of soliders to the EU force.

How these are recruited, if it is by free will or by threat of prison (as it is here), is up to the states themselves to decide.

>>77462975
This, I don't think EU Federalists realize how hard it is to get all these different states to agree on anything. Look at how much the US struggled to keep all of its states under control in the first 100 years of its existence. And those were states which were all majority English speaking and majority Protestant Christian, not to mention very similar culturally.

>>77464546
Because it was a terrible post, just terrible. "Europe" isn't a monolith like the US, each country maintains its own economic affairs - the EU only has competence in trade and agriculture/fisheries (and for Eurozone members, monetary policy). Fiscal policy remains the sole remit of the Member States. We also have different economic models. France is high tax protectionist, we're low tax capitalist, Germans and Scandis are high tax "capitalists".

>>77464551
>common people
europeans

>common language
english

>>77464655
I don't give a shit if you're not a monolith, because an integrated military costs communal money. If you have no plan to pay for it, discussing it is pointless.

>>77464676
>europeans
Kek, there's no such thing. Barely 2% of people in Ireland consider themselves "European" instead of Irish.

>english
Good luck trying to convince the French and Italians to learn English kek

>>77464378
>Then the moment we get a politician who leans toward isolationism
Funny how this Trump is pro-isolation thing keeps getting spread around even though he's shown no signs of deviating from interventionism. We're still bombing the shit out of the Middle East, we're still rolling out the supercarriers and sending them to Asia, and we're still the biggest contributors to NATO and the UN.

>I completely understand why George Washington said that "entangling alliances" were for queers.
George Washington lived in a time where it took 3 fucking months to cross the Atlantic.

I'm quite conflicted by an EU army. On one hand, Africa is going to have a population bulge by 2100 and you guys clearly need to slap a navy in the Mediterranean and start sinking invaders as they head north.

On the other hand, an EU army being pushed by Germany would just mean that those soldiers will occupy you Europeans as Africans invade.

>>77464676
>europeans
Not one people. You might as well say Japan and Cambodia should unite because they're both asian.

>english
Don't confuse a common second language with the main language. Nobody has any special attachment to English except the English, if Arabic became more convenient tomorrow you'd all use that instead.

>>77464716
>because an integrated military costs communal money
Which has absolutely nothing to do with welfare payments. The EU's budget does not have anything to do with welfare, it invests in capital projects, research and development, CAP, and bureaucracy.

Each Member State gives a certain amount to the EU budget, which is spent on the aforementioned. It doesn't require slashing welfare or anything of the sort, because the European budget has nothing to do with national budgets - Ireland's contribution to the EU doesn't change whether we're running a surplus or a deficit, it just counts as another expenditure.

Its budget is also made up of countries that aren't in the EU but want market access like Norway.

>>77464721
>german
>Kek, there's no such thing. Barely 2% of people in prussia consider themselves "German" instead of prussian.

>High German
>Good luck trying to convince the Bavarian and Sorbs to learn High German kek

You in 18th century

>>77464809
People with special attachment to languages are quite retarded. Like french people who refuse to speak English.

>>77464842
>dialectal difference is the same as learning a new fucking language
You're autistic. Bavarian German and Prussian German was still mutually understandable, English is a completely different language especially for Finns, Romanians, Bulgarians, Greeks, and so on.

There's no commonality between their languages and English, as there was between the variety of German dialects.

>>77455509
>Why are people against EU army?
Are you ready to get conscripted to defend the Bulgarian and Greek boarders.Are you ready to learn Bulgarian and Greek, so you can be stationed here?

>>77464969
The only reason Finns are bad at English is because they did not start learning it in school until recently because they are forced to learn Swedish, which is quite idiotic to be honest.

Except for the Finns who emigrated here, most of them would have found a lot more use for English than Swedish.

>>77464969
Sorbs were slavic people who had to learn German from the beginning and yet they managed it.
Also, all european countries teach english at school as secondary language.
And dunno if you noticed it, but we have Finns, Romanians, Bulgarians, Greeks, and so on speaking english with each other here

>>77465131
>Also, all european countries teach english at school as secondary language.
That is not exactly true.Here you are given an option to choose 2 secondary languages and English is one of the options.We had French,Russian,German and Spanish at my school.

>>77465131
>And dunno if you noticed it, but we have Finns, Romanians, Bulgarians, Greeks, and so on speaking english with each other here

Imagine my surprise, people using the English language on an English-language website! This totally means the rest of their country is competent in English!

You're a moron, that's selection bias.

>>77465432
In Germany, everybody below the age of 30 is able to hold a fluent conversation in English

>>77465372
thats why we need eu of two speeds

>>77465474
>you are given the option to choose what secondary languages you want to learn
>thats why we need eu of two speeds
You make no sense.

>>77465552
nah dude you don't understand it's TWO speeds

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>>77465622
>nah dude you don't understand it's TWO speeds
Uhh...whaaa?

>>77455509
Because an EU army wouldn't be used on the Islamic horde that currently occupies Europe rather it would be used by central banks to centralize power so that the events of brexit could never happen again forcing all of Europe into one great socially liberal authoritarian state controlled by the bankers. Does that answer your question?

>>77465474
>In Germany, everybody below the age of 30 is able to hold a fluent conversation in English

Really? I was in Berlin last week, and it was harder to get understood there than in the Netherlands for example.

Also, why the fuck don't you guys take credit cards?

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just imagine an EU army that is as decisive as the EU

>>77465901
>Also, why the fuck don't you guys take credit cards?
are you american tourist?

>>77466017
I rarely ever use an ATM normally since you can pay with cards everywhere in sweden.

In fact, you can't even buy tickets for the metro without a card.

In Berlin, the metro ticket machines have card readers but they are disabled "card payments are not allowed on this station". Wtf.

>>77466940
>In fact, you can't even buy tickets for the metro without a card.
Why the fuck is Sweden Big Brother?

>>77455509
As long as it's used ONLY for self-defense of countries inside the EU, I'm for it.

>>77466969
Because this contry is owned by banks.
Literally.

>>77466979
>self defense only

How is someone supposed to bomb brown people???

>>77466969
There is also other reasons.

Trade unions are all against money handling, because of the increased risk of robbery.

The government has recently taken a lot of steps against money laundering. Since the taxes are high here, they really want to get at wanglers, not just criminals but ordinary people or small business owners to.

>>77457809
you cant defeat Islam with an EU army

>>77455509
I agree let's just fucking do this already, I want our Empires back.

>>77455833
>ally with Russia

AAANND you lost me

>>77462244
I completely approve of this

>>77455509

>We could


you mean "you could", having all EU nations sending soldiers to fight in your private causes.

>>77464272
hey look, a russian!

>>77458737
I dont want EU to have a fucking army it can use to project power towards member states if it deems them "dissidents". I don't want non-Finnish troops stationed in Finland and be de-facto occupied. The idea of an EU army scares me, seeing how EU has strived towards complete federalisation and loss of national independence.

>>77455509
We're already more powerful than the US.

Does the US have any bitch country to fight their wars for them?

Just imagine the fucking shitshow of trying to standardize and/or integrate European armies, especially those not in NATO, into one functional organization (command, equipment, doctrine). It would be a political, logistical and bureaucratic hell. It's a retarded pipedream and not worth the effort, even if you don't consider all the possible threats and ramifications it'd pose to member nations if used for malicious intent. At best you could realistically hope for some kind of EU-coordinated cooperation between separate armies.

The battalions would have to be single-nationality through and through, though.

I know for sure that a Portuguese wouldn't be able to take a Spaniard's orders with a straight face, since their language sounds funny to us. I imagine the opposite is true as well.

>>77468632
>alright fellass
>we airdrop into Mali 3 km from the terroristss
>then we march until we make contact with isisisss
>Portuguese troops giggling at the lisping

I can see that happening

>>77468837
It's more like, instead of "charge!!!", they'd yell "¡¡arriba!!" which is what we use to mock them sometime, and everyone would crack up.

>>77459406
Kill
>>77459424
Your
>>77459879
Selves

>>77455509
never, EU is a fucking disaster economically and socially, nobody would accept it outside of Germany

>>77469061
Jesus, they sound like mexicans!

>>77458504
All humans are apes you silly little toilet plunger

>>77464432
>illegal
HA

>>77464272
>yous
I love you, poleanon

>>77464272
This is so underrated kek

>>77458578
Why can't Africans create stability in Africa?
>inb4 "it's all whitey's fault"

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>>77473402
Obligatory

>>77458924
Do you feel more of a connection with germany or honduras?

>>77476351
Personally, I feel a greater connection to Germany than Honduras
help