/lang/ - Language Learning

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>What language are you learning?
>Share language learning experiences!
>Help people who want to learn a new language!
>Find people to train your language with!

>Language learning resources:
http://4chanint.wikia.com/wiki/The_Official_/int/_How_to_Learn_A_Foreign_Language_Guide_Wiki

http://www.duolingo.com/
>Duolingo is a free language-learning platform that includes a language-learning website and app, as well as a digital language proficiency assessment exam. Duolingo offers all its language courses free of charge.

>>>/t/746368
>Torrents with more resources than you'll ever need for 30+ languages.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B9QDHej9UGAdcDhWVEllMzJBSEk#
>Google Drive folder with books for all kinds of languages.

https://fsi-languages.yojik.eu/languages/oldfsi/index.html
>Drill based courses with text and audio.The Foreign Service Institute (FSI) is the United States federal government's primary training institution for employees of the U.S. foreign affairs community.These courses are all in public domain and free to download.Site may go down sometimes but you can search for fsi on google and easily find a mirror.

https://www.memrise.com/
>Free resource to learn vocabulary, nice flash cards.

https://lingvist.com/
>It's kinda like Clozemaster in the sense that you get a sentence and have to fill in the missing word, also has nice statistics about your progress, grammar tips and more information about a word (noun gender, verb aspects for Russian, etc.)

ankisrs.net/
>A flash card program

https://www.clozemaster.com/languages
>Clozemaster is language learning gamification through mass exposure to vocabulary in context.Can be a great supplementary tool, not recommended for absolute beginners.

https://tatoeba.org/eng/
>Tatoeba is a collection of sentences and translations with over 300 hundred languages to chose from.

radio.garden/
>Listen to radio all around the world through an interactive globe

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http://www.effectivelanguagelearning.com/language-guide/language-difficulty
>Check out information about languages and their difficulties

http://lexicity.com/
>An invaluable resource for comparative language study as well as those interested in ancient languages

http://cosmogyros.tumblr.com/post/108962232110/huge-new-language-learning-collection
>A very extensive language learning collection for 90+ languages.

http://www.dliflc.edu/resources/products/
>Similar to FSI, drill-based courses with text and audio issued by the US government.These courses were made for millitary personel in mind unlike FSI.

http://en.childrenslibrary.org
>Lots of childrens books in various languages, categories 3-5yo, 6-9yo, 10-13yo.

https://www.hellotalk.com/#en
>The app is basically whatsapp, but only connects you with people who are native in the language you are trying to learn. It also has a facebook type section where you can share pics and stuff too.

https://www.italki.com/
https://www.mylanguageexchange.com/
https://www.interpals.net/
http://www.gospeaky.net/
https://www.speaky.com/
https://polyglotclub.com/
http://lang-8.com/
>Few more language exchange communities like Hellotalk:

http://www.goethe-verlag.com/
>A mostly free site which offers audio and drill like exercises for 40+ languages.

http://www.languagetransfer.org/
>A free resource with recordings to learn a language.

https://babadum.com
>Flash card game with a focus on vocabulary.

http://context.reverso.net/translation/
>A website like Tatoeba (also has a Firefox extension!)

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So, /lang/, how's the learning going?

What tools are you using?

Anything new and interesting you've learned?

Do you guys tell others you're learning a language and do you get stupid questions like 'why' or other dumb reactions!

>>77362372
I have told people I'm learning it. For two reasons. The first is it holds me a bit accountable. The second is that a lot of those people speak the language I want to learn and so that helps me practice. I got to learn really quick the ones who wanted to speak to a novice and help train.

But yeah, the English only speaking people kind of say "why?" or give some "you should tell no one you are learning the language so you can spy on them!" and other dumb shit.

>>77362372
For some reason the only thing I got from my dad in this regard was discouragement and comments like "you know it's okay if you quit"
I only tell it to other people if the topic comes up

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>>77361966
Mari learner here

I've successfully managed in finding a handful of Mari songs which I enjoy (though I'm a bit ashamed of admitting it, seeing as objectively they're not all that good). Now I have a very well-defined language-learning objective: translate those songs to English.

It's a bit weird because I can recall plenty of other languages (way more relevant than Mari) for which I was never able to find ANY music I enjoyed (I was doing this to try to determine if I was interested in learning those languages), and yet for Mari I've succeeded a little bit.

>>77362372
There's no way in hell I'd ever be able to confess to such autism IRL, though if it were a normal language like Spanish or German then sure, if asked I wouldn't mind telling people.

>>77361966
i can progressively understand more and more of the Chinese postage info on all the components i buy on ebay.

>>77362751
close friends know.
we watched some Chinese movies the other week.
not even my initiative.

only about 3 whole sentences i understood without reading the text though.

Anyone here learnt Latin? Can it be done to fluency in two years?

>>77361966
I have decided to ask people to spell new words/expressions and write them on a note so I don't forget them, but so far I only have one kek
I don't come across new words very often
>>77363039
Can you recommend any? Under the hawthorn tree is one of my favourite movies, but it's the only Chinese movie I've seen

Today I bought the present for a """"language"""" partner in Geneva where I will spend a few days at her place later this summer.

I'm already hyped up and I hope I will get to speak a lot of French when I'm there.

>>77363332
Lube?

>>77363149
battle of red cliffs was not terrible.
only saw the last of the two movies though.

>>77363440
Thanks, but I have a foreskin.

No, seriously it's just a stereotypical souvenir, the equivalent of the legendary all-American red party cup.

>>77363546
a cup with a lid on it?

>>77363653
Kind of yeah, one of these big beer mugs with a tin lid that have these rustic and stereotypical printings .

>>77363546
Ah okay, nice. When my German qt came she brought a book from her region in Bavaria.

>>77363772
Well, I personally would never gift a book to someone if I didn't know that this person really, really wants to read this specific book.

>>77364021
It was just a picture book with a bit of text. But, yeah, a beer mug is better.

Malay or Indonesian? They are kinda similar and I can't decide.

>>77364377
Is there one you think you would be more likely to use? Or are they more just for fun? I think that might dictate which.

>>77365869
Just for fun. I don't think there's a high chance of visiting the countries in which those languages are spoken.

>>77366015
Malaysia is maybe worth a trip if you are in that part of the world. Singapore is pretty interesting. I've been there and Jahor which is right over the river.

Certainly be other places I'd rather go though.

Ancient Greek or Latin?

>>77364377
They're not similar. At all. Like Dutch and German.
If you want making profits out of youtube, Bahasa Indonesia is what you should pick because they have much larger demographics.
If you want to become a famous celebrity that they would worship with plenty of perks like be picked up to visit there for free, learn Bahasa Melayu.

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Is it ok to read books that are translated into your target language for practice? Obviously native books are better but I use Harry Potter as a benchmark since the book series gets a bit more involved and mature as it goes on so I can gauge my progress fairly well. My only concern is that sentence constructions or speech patterns are unnatural for the target language, giving me awkward syntax when I go to write/speak. I'm learning German if that makes a huge difference (I know some people get butthurt about German to English translations, dunno about the reverse).

>>77362372
I never tell people I'm doing anything until I'm at a comfortable level of proficiency. That way I can show them something tangible if they ask how it's going.
>>77363546
>red solo cups are world-famous
Interesting.

>>77366206
They have rich history, of course they are worth visiting.
>>77366209
Are you interested in ancient texts?
>>77366394
Well, I don't plan on living there, I just find those languages interesting (they also use the latin alphabet, that's a plus) and I can't decide which one to study.

>>77366622
>Are you interested in ancient texts?
Yep, that's why I'd be learning them.

Would love to learn them both so I could , but don't know which to learn. Which would be harder for an English speaker? Hope to get decently fluent in one within two years.

>>77366686
Ancient Greek would be more difficult for an English speaker to learn, I think it has more complex syntax than Latin.
Latin also shares a lot of common words with English, so I bet that the vocabulary would be easier for you to learn.

>>77366622
ok

Any ideas on how can I express myself fluently while speaking if I don't have anyone to talk with??
I just read OP's picture and I'm almost C1 at reading, listening and writing(or at least I think so), but I struggle to make spontaneous anwers when talking.

Should I learn French if I want to talk about weeb shit with people in a different language?

>>77369638
Do you know French weebs?

>>77368141
I have the same situation. I've been reading out loud in order to get my mouth used to saying the words so that they're easier to form. Make up dialogues in your head and just blabber on by yourself. Best I can think of besides finding a language partner online or something.

>>77369716
>Do you know French weebs?
/int/ makes it sound like there's a lot of French weebs.
Reason I want to learn another language, so I can talk to foreign people online, but Im pretty boring, so it'd be cool if we could talk about weeb shit.

>>77369741
Common interest is good to have when finding people to practice with. I don't know French but it shouldn't be terribly difficult to learn, especially since it'll have a ton of resources.

give it a whirl, see if you like it.

>>77366506
>My only concern is that sentence constructions or speech patterns are unnatural for the target language, giving me awkward syntax when I go to write/speak.
most books are going to be translated by native speakers, who're probably going to avoid translating stuff too literally (i.e. awkwardly) and instead opt for more natural sounding phrasing / syntax / whatever when possible, so i'd say it's probably okay to read stuff translated into that language. Harry Potter will probably have pretty good translations given that it's a pretty well known book, so you should be safe, although definitely try diving into native material in between reading it or something.

>tfw learning an middle eastern language and they only have derka derka jihad music to listen to

>>77373979
Which language?

>>77374020
T*rkish

>>77374060
I bet you can find more than jihad music in Turkish. Like western style pop or rock or even something else.

>>77373979
Are you fucking retarded mate?We have tons of popshit and different genres.If you want some just ask no need to pretend.

>>77363060
>fluency
Who are you supposed to talk to, the Pope? "Fluency" in a dead language is bereft of any meaning since it lacks authentic speaking and listening, two crucial aspects of speaking any language.

>>77366394
>Like Dutch and German
Dutch and German are pretty similar though

>>77374822
Even in Roman times written latin was the formal language and already different from vulgar latin.
If one would wanted to learn spoken latin, he should pick any romance language.

>>77362687
Why are you learning mari?

>>77362372
If I tell people, it's something like "I'm learning farsi cause I'm going to Iran next year". Responses vary from enthusiastic (dad loves middle-east), to a joking "I knew it, you're going to a hezbollah training camp". Brother and sister are probably the most "negative" reactions with "why bother, don't they speak english" (no, many don't)

Hey guys, Slavist here. I'm in the search for a new and interesting language to learn and I'm not sure what language to pick. I've got some ideas thought, here they are
Bulgarian
Italian
Romanian
Something exotic, could be a meme/dead language, Sindarin, Asian, African, preferably clean/beautiful orthography.
Maybe a Finno-Ugric language.
A language you'd learn if you had the time to waste on a language that you know is not "worth" learning

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>>77378403
>clean/beautiful ortography
Ayyrabic or Persian
Mongolian language with its classic script instead of that cyrillic nonsense

> if you had the time to waste on a language that you know is not "worth" learning
Amharic, Xhosa (clickety clack), Basque, any sign language (bonus points for not being the sign language of your country), Nahuatl, Georgian, nahavo and other native american languages, a Ryukyuan language, Ainu, Puroik Language/Sulung.

>>77378917
Thanks, I'll check them out. Checked out Mongolian, sounds really weird

Tengo una pregunta español, por favor.

"No, I can't today" I thought would be "No, no puedo hoy" but it seems to be "No, hoy no puedo"

Is there a grammar rule on why that is? It seems backwards.

>>77379539
In Russian you tend to put adverbs of time first. Feel free to correct me

>>77379850
Ah okay, yeah, maybe it's specific to time. I'll wait for a Spanish speaker but that's a good lead, thank you.

Jesus christ its so hard to learn Spanish especially when it seems like everyone who speaks it seems to race through the sentences. I can barely understand unless it's slowed down. So frustrating.

>>77381606
I'm having the same struggle as you, however I am picking up more things recently. Just stick with it. I think all languages sound fast when you first start, so Spanish is going to be very fast, but the more you listen the more you start to grab it. I think it's one of those things that is more about hours than it is about active study. Listen to a lot, get used to the sounds, etc.

>>77381847
Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately where I am, there are very little spanish speakers so I have to make do with what I find online I guess.

how long to become fluent in french?

>>77381955
Yeah, it'll have to be online. There are lots of listening resources though. You can listen to Spanish radio, you can listen to Spanish on Periscope, YouTube. There are international chat apps, movies, tv. So many people speak Spanish you should be able to find something fairly easy.

Someone recommended Periscope a few threads ago and while the content is absolute shit, it is so elementary (dumb broads answering very simple questions) that it is perfect for a beginner. "How are you" and all that type of stuff is asked very frequently. "Where are you from" "How old are you" very basic stuff gets reinforced which was super helpful for a beginner like me.

do you guys have a list of languages you intend on learning? not talking about languages you wish to learn, but ones you actually have a plan on learning down the line.

for me:
>finnish
>estonian
>icelandic
>faroese

>>77382232
Ok, periscope actually might not be such a bad idea. Probably better than listening to spanish nursery songs. Thanks again.

>>77382233
>French
>Russian
>Some balkan language
And maybe Chinese too if I could get good at these in few decades.

>>77381994
From what I gathered for Spanish, which is similar in difficulty to English > French, it is about 600 hours to B1/B2 on average.

>>77382233
I don't really plan to learn languages, I just start one day without much thought. It's worked for me so far. At the moment I'm juggling French Spanish and Japanese, so I'd like to get them all to a reasonably fluent level before starting anything new.

On my wish list currently are:
>Russian
>Italian
>Dutch (muh heritage)
>Portuguese

>>77382233
It's going to take me like three years to learn Spanish so I can't really think of anything else. I'd like to learn some French after.

>>77382417
Spanish is a lot easier to speak and listen to than French I think.

>>77382617
I'd say French is easier to understand because than Spanish, they speak slower and sound more distinctive

I guess it's due to exposure though, in the UK we hear French more often than Spanish and vice versa in the USA

>>77382617
It took me ages to get the rolled r in Spanish, also there's lots of subtleties in the spoken language, like the swallowed s sounds and all the slurred words.

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>>77382687
>rolled r
Yeah that's going to take me a while.

>>77382716
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1XpbMOmw7kd

>>77382716
hola señor :^)
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0IBM9jNFmOa

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>>77382776
>>77382856

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>>77382908
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0d1ZUjg6Tua

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>>77382932

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helo guize

i am learning hard

>>77383322
пpeкpacный

>>77383430
Cпacибo

>>77383472
пoжaлyйcтa. этa книгa хopoшaя?

>>77383679
Дa oчeнь хopoшo

>>77379539
It is all about emphasis. Both of those sentences are correct but "no, hoy no puedo" focuses on the time (hoy) whereas "no puedo hoy" focuses more on the action (poder). Think of it like someone saying "No, I can't do it TODAY" vs "No, I CAN'T do it today." I'd say in Spanish we usually emphasize those kinds of adverbs in the beginning of the sentence more often. Maybe there's a grammatical reason, but I'm not sure. Try looking up Spanish adverb placement if you're still confused.

>>77385734
Thank you, that was very helpful.

Thinking about putting a language list into one of those list randomisers and choosing a a language that way.

>>77379366
>sounds really weird
You know you like that "auditory aesthetic"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rmo3fKeveo

>>77383430
Пpeкpacный what? I don't even get what you're referring to.
>>77383751
>Дa, oчeнь хopoшaя
Why Russian? Do you study with a tuitor or on your own?

How early is too early to being practising a language with natives? I'm learning Russian, I know the very basics of grammar and vocabulary, but I can hardly understand anything, so is it even worth bothering someone with my Russian skills as they are?

>>77385315
What languages are you learning?

>>77388162
I just started learning Spanish a month ago and already practice with native speakers. It's cringe worthy and painful because I'm so bad, but, fuck it.

>studying japanese for 2.75 years
>have solid grasp on basic-to-intermediate japanese
>can play child's games (such as Pokemon Mystery Dungeon) and understand a good 70% of the dialogue
>stuff like cultural references and the nuance of every specific word evade me (I think this is what differentiates "native speakers" from "this is my second language", I don't think I'll ever learn these)
>the problem is my functional vocabulary is non-existent
>glued to a dictionary the entire time so progress is incredibly slow in the games
>can't even begin to read more mature games or literature due to only really knowing ~300 kanji (familiar with ~1500 though)
>forget about actually conversing with anyone
>I can't even understand the spoken language
is this the curse of a meme language

>>77388356
it's hard

>>77388470
my main frustration is the "glued to a dictionary" phenomenon
I can understand the grammar but I still can't read shit at all. But I've been studying more kanji and it's getting much better recently

>>77388356
My cousin studied Japanese in college, was fluent, then after school went into translation and then a British company found her and hired her for a bunch of money doing something unrelated. Now she's really bad at it because she didn't practice. Japanese is a tough one. You have to basically be immersed in it to be any good, then it is still hard, and if you stop you lose it really fast.

Learning German really slowly because I'm a lazy fuck. Probably at B1 although I'm lacking quite a bit with my vocabulary. Best methods to learning it? Memrise etc. I find extremely slow.

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>>77378403
You could try learning mine.

>>77375628
I've wanted to learn an Uralic language for a long time. The grammar and syntax just please me in a very fundemantal way.

For some reason though, the main ones (Finnish, Estonian and Hungarian) turn me off somewhat for various small reasons. For example, the Estonian õ, or the way that it seems like practically every single verb in Finnish and Estonian is irregular, or the excessive consonant elongation, and so on. Mind you, I still want to learn at least one of those languages in the future (especially Finnish or Estonian), but Mari just has fewer annoying features. I'm not very advanced yet, but the grammar so far seems quite a bit easier. Another factor is simply my autism which pushed me for no particular reason to learn a tiny irrelevant language.

As to why I chose Mari rather than some other Uralic language, it's simply because Mari is the most accessible of them all, and it actually has learning ressources. As a small added bonus, it has quite a few loanwords from nearby Turkic languages, and I've long been interested in Turkic languages and culture as well.

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ENOUGH!!!!!!!!

MAKE A CHART FOR THE LANGUAGE YOU ARE LEARNING RIGHT THIS MOMENT YOU ANONS, I'M SICK AND TIRED OF ALL THESE BOARDS MAKING SHIT HAPPEN(pic related) WHILE WE HERE DO NOTHING FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Doesn't have to be perfect, but just enough to get the ball rolling for a beginner, that's all we need.

>inb4 but I haven't reached fluency level yet that would be hypocrisy!
Well you are kinda right there.But still, I'm not talking about fluency level here, b1-b2 should be enough to set someone on their path.At least for the more popular languages like German, Spanish, Chinese.. we should have a chart is all I'm saying desu.

>>77373979
I'll link some music for you if you want.

>>77390586
Make an announcement in the OP next thread

>>77388356
After 3 years of studying, how do you only know 300 kanji? You must have fucked up something while studying. If you're an EOP that's fine, though. Good luck next time you learn a language, at least you'll have some experience then.

>>77382233
>mandarin
>korean
>russian
maybe a shitty european language in between

>>77389243
I've already decided for Finnish, even applied for it in my uni

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>>77390586
I can't help for the entire part involved in reaching A2, but this is roughly how I got myself to a B2 level in Spanish.

>>77390586
Cool.
I found some from the Radio Garden link in the op with some dance music but those stations also play English and Romanian songs too bad.

>>77392181
Speaking of Radio Garden, does anybody know why sometimes stations are unreachable? I know that in the past there were instances of stations which I was able to reach on my computer, but for whatever reason other posters claimed that they were unable to.

There's a station I wish I could connect to but it's always unreachable for me.

>>77392318
Have you tried connecting to that station through its website? Just google radio "station name"

Can someone explain to me how to properly "pronounce" ь and ъ or drop a link? (Russian, dunno if it changes in other slavic languages)
Right now I just skip it completely from words and pretend it's the same.

>>77377788
It's so uncommon to see Farsi learners. Glad to see another one of my kinds

>>77392953
I started with ye olde paper flash cards, but I realized that if I keep it up I will have a humongous amount of them. Would you happen to have/know of some anki flash cards downloads?

>still can't pronounce three after all those years
It's either tree or twee but never three

>>77392871
yeah, it works on its website, but it's nice to be able to use radio garden so I can surf around nearby stations (or distant ones if I feel like it) when there's nothing interesting on the main station I'm interested in

>>77392899
http://www.russianforeveryone.com/Rufe/Lessons/Course1/Introduction/IntrUnit7/IntrUnit7.htm
You should learn what are soft or palatalized consonants in Russian, not how to "pronounce" ь or ъ. If you understand that, the rest is easy.

>>77392899
pretty much the entire Russian cyrillic alphabet is built around the concept of palatalization, of which the letters ь and ъ play a major role, you most certainly shouldn't skip them

Palatalization basically just means jamming your tongue up to the top of your mouth with the force of a thousand suns. In practice, what happens is that it basically produces a "y" sound. Notice how each vowel has a pair of letters rather than a single letter:

a - я [a - ya]
э - e [e - ye]
ы - и [y* - i]
o - ё [o - yo]
y - ю [u - yu]

This is palatalization in action (the only exception is the ы-и pair, seeing as ы actually makes a different vowel sound, one which can be difficult to master for learners). So, if you take пять (pyat' - "five"), then the "ya" sound is in reality a palatalization of the preceding consonant, in this case п. This is all fine and dandy when you have a consonant followed by a vowel, but in that word you also notice the ь at the end. This is because the т is also palatalized, but has no following vowel. Therefore, the ь symbol is used. So you just jam your tongue up there, as if you were going to make a "y" sound, but you stop before making any sort of vowel. Probably the easiest consonant with which to do this is н, since the end result is roughly like the Spanish ñ.

As for the ъ letter, it's much less common, but it basically does the opposite of ь. One example would be the verb "cъecть" (to eat). The ъ here instructs you to pronounce the e as if it were a э. So you may ask, "why not simply write cэcть?". In this specific case, the etymology of that word is derived from ecть (to be), with a c- added at the beginning (a common prefix for verbs). That's why it's written the way it is.

>>77393958
>One example would be the verb "cъecть" (to eat). The ъ here instructs you to pronounce the e as if it were a э.
Wrong. Russian e, like other iotized vowels (ё, ю, я) softens the preceding consonant, in transcription it looks like /'э/. It's pronounced as
/йэ/ elsewhere, i.e. in the beginning of the word, after vowels, ъ and ь.

There are exceptions, though - in many foreign words, e after consonants is always pronounced as /э/: cf. тecт /тэcт/ "test" and тecть /т'эcт'/ "wife's father".

Back to your example.
In cъecть "to eat (perfective)" you need ъ to separate the hard (non-palatalized) consonant from e. It's pronounced then as /cйэcт'/. If you remove ъ, you will get the verb cecть "to sit down (perfective)". It's pronounced as /c'ecт'/.

Usually you put ъ between different morphemes - the prefix and the stem, while you use ь inside the root (as in the example above: c + ecть = cъecть).
This is rule is generally applied to loanwords too even if it's contradictory to the actual pronunciation.
E.g.:
кoмпьютep "computer" is written with ь because it's inside the root even though the word can be pronounced either as /кaмпйyтэp/ or /кaмп'йyтэp/;
aдъютaнт "adjutant" is written with ъ because it's between the prefix aд- and the stem ютaнт (even though these morphemes are not productive) but the word is pronounced as /aд'йyтaнт/.

>>77393958
>the etymology of that word is derived from ecть (to be)
This totally wrong.
Here ecть is the infinitive form of the verb "to eat (imperfective)". By addding the prefix c- you get cъecть "to eat (perfective)". It CAN also mean the 3rd person singular form of the verb быть "to be" which is almost never used in the present tense.

If you want, here's an example:
Ecть здopoвyю пищy - (ecть) зaлoг здopoвья.
To eat healthy food is the guarantee of health.
In Russian most of the time you omit (ecть) and just say "X - Y" without copula.

>>77395683
>>77395405
oh, my bad

I see I still have a lot to learn

>>77393958
Ы isn't a vowel, it's a consonant;
Ъ isn't a sign of PALATALISATION, ъ in Russian = apostrophe (The english " ' ", like in IT'S, THERE'S etc.), thus the ъ sign doesn't palatalize the following consonant, and the vocals that come after at are simply pronounced entirely, i.e. they're pronounced by themselves

Im learning written danish. Its so hard, such a backwards and primitive language. Not similar at all to any other scandi language

>>77396096
It's okay, няшa.
>>77396154
You're retarded.

>>77396200
Чтo нe тaк ёпты? Ы этo coглacнaя, a нe глacнaя, зaгyгли ecли нe вepишь

english is such a brainlet language compared to Russian wtf kek

>>77396361

+1 i hate english .

>>77396197
wut, what kind of written danish are you reading? i cant even tell danish apart from norwegian when reading

>>77390586
I'm keeping track of my learning and what I do so I can make something as I reach a decent level. Probably will be a long time though.

Any frog that can answer me why does french needs to add so many exceptions to the rules like in the pronoms or in the verbs n shiet?

>>77396842
Es un castigo que Dios te envía por escoger un memeidioma que todo mundo y su madre aprende.

>>77397257
Fue por el trabajo pero ya habia estudiado un poco el alemán y el chingchong pero el ultimo en la secundaria (no aprendí nada jaja), esos te complacen o aprendo sumeiro o una lengua WEWUZ que no sea un "memeidioma", huh anon?

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>>77396200
>It's okay, няшa.

NYASH MYASH, KRIM NASH!

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>si tu dois prendre une décision et que tu laissez quelqu'un d'autre la prendre à ta place, tu le regretteras de toute façon, quoi qu'il arrive

I only understood up to "si tu dois prendre une décision". I'm not gonna make it lads

Anyone use Quizlet?

>>77402074
what are you having trouble with in particular about that sentence?

>>77402234
What's the point of que, la, à and de? The rest is okay. I guess I just need to memorize "quelqu'un d'autre" is "someone else" and "toute façon" is "anyway".

But how is "quoi qu'il arrive" "whatever happens"???

>>77402315
"tu laissez" should be "tu laisses" in that sentence

>What's the point of que, la, à and de?
"que" here is used instead of "si" to avoid repeating "si" a second time. Interpret it as the same thing as "si tu dois... et si tu laisses". It's a stylistic thing of very formal French.
"la" here means "it" (= la décision).
"à ta place" = in your place, in your stead ("if you let another person take it [the decision] for you")

>"toute façon" is "anyway".
"Anyway" is "de toute façon", include the "de".

>But how is "quoi qu'il arrive" "whatever happens"???
"Quoi que [...]" means "no matter what [...]". "Arriver" is often used to mean "to happen".

Quoi qu'il me dise = No matter what he tells me
Quoi qu'il fasse = No matter what he does
Quoi qu'il arrive = No matter what arrives/happens

>>77402315

it is hard to explain, I think you need to memorize the last one also :(

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>>77402923
>>77402947
It was tu laisses I copied it wrong.

Thanks that helped. In case youre wondering...

>>77402923
I forgot to mention that the "il" in "quoi qu'il arrive" does not mean "he", since "il arrive" here is impersonal.

Soudainement il arrive quelque chose. = Suddenly something happens.
Il n'arrive pas souvent que les athées de 4chan sortent de leur grotte. = It doesn't often happen that 4chan's atheists come out of their cave.

>>77403070
>playing videogames in your target language
Always a great way to practise the language you're learning.

Too bad I can't stand playing videogames anymore. ;_;

>>77403154
>>77403192
How is "je me suis fait dire" "I was told"?

>>77403286
Never mind I think I got it. "Je me suis fait" must be "I made myself" so... "Je me suis fait dire mon avenir" is "I had myself told my future"

>>77403618
For me it is right , just that we put me,te,se before specific verbe , Like in german with the sich

I still can't decide which language to learn. Just blow my fucking head off.

>>77405764
what ones are you interested in?

>>77405985
Italian, Spanish, Dutch, French. Spanish seems like the obvious choice but I don't have much motivation. As for the other languages: I have Italian heritage and studied it in school; I have Dutch friends; and I like the idea of being able to read French literature. I know learning all four is pretty unrealistic so I want to focus on just one.

Anybody know why exactly, historically/etymologically speaking, Russian and other East Slav languages prefer to use the "У мeня ecть" formulation (basically "at me there is") rather than a normal version of the verb "to have"? Other Slav languages all seem to simply use a normal version with a verb meaning "to have". Was this something present in Proto-Slavic, and if not where did East Slavs pick this up from?

I tried finding the answer myself, but with no luck.

>>77390740
Yes we should do that.

>>77391328
Thanks fampai looks good.

>>77396820
That's great.

>>77402096
What is that?

>>77406884
I would go with Dutch since you have friends it'll be easier to learn that.

Why are the French such snobs about their language? When in was learning spanish, Spanish speakers would be more than happy to talk to me in Spanish. Whenever I talk to French people in french, they refuse to conversate with me in their language. Feelsbadman.

>>77396096
Cъecть = Cйэcть
Cecть = Cьэcть
sʲest ≠ sjest

>>77396154
Ы is a vowel. The Ъ part is correct.

>>77396341
>He мoжeт oтличить глacный звyк бeз гyглa
Бeдняшa.

>>77407533
No idea.

>>77407533
probably comes from proto indo european, where dative/genitive case plus "to be" was used to mark possession. russian/east slavic just happened to keep it instead of innovating a separate verb or something.

>>77405764
Uzbek
t. /r/languagelearning

>>77409726
don't use interpals for language practice it's shit

>>77409612
>What is that?
It's a flashcard app/website. Studying tool.

>>77415153
very useful

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>>77409726
My experience has been the same. Basically all Spanish speakers will be extremely enthusiastic about you learning their language, smile, help you, make you feel comfortable. The exceptions are incredibly rare. French seem to have a complete opposite attitude. I don't miss having to go to France. Paris literally smells like a urinal.

How do you learn how to speak French and pronounce everything properly if you have nobody to speak with
Its hard for me to find French movies and other spoken media and googling usually gives me really crappy podcasts made by English speakers, most of that stuff is really expensive
My textbook also lacks a cd

>>77416464
Get a French gf.

>>77416615
But they're ugly

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>>77379539
>>77379850
>>77385734
So there does seem to be something in Spanish about putting no after a time rather than in front of it. Both Michel Thomas and Pimsleur do it.

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>>77416846
>he's never seen the movie Raw/Grave
by the end I really wanted her to eat me

>>77416464
Use Excalier. Libraries have them books. You can get the audio online too.

>>77416464
http://radio.garden/live/paris/allzic-radio-enfant-0-4-ans/
Apparently paris has a few "children's radio stations" in categories 0-4, 4-7 and 7-12
Just for you

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>qué
what has an accent on the e
>que tenga
have doesn't on the e in que

>>77409726
Explain yourselves right now France

>>77417086
Thank you Aquafresh
I hope you don't die when the Netherlands sinks due to global warming

>download Pinyin Trainer
>get at least 1/3 of them wrong, increases to 2/3 when only practicing double tones
>the speaker doesn't talk in beijing dialect (I think)
why do I even bother

>>77409726
If you're trying to learn, then avoid people from cities like Paris, Geneva and Montreal.

Find people from outside the major cities. Especially in Quebec, seeing as knowledge of English outside of Montreal is abysmal (even worse than France in my personal experience) and people are very fond of other people learning our language.

>>77409726
>>77421271
also, if you learn to decipher our accent/dialect, then I guarantee you'll never have any trouble understanding any spoken French

Québec French is pretty much the final boss of the French language.

Trying to learn German. Coming up to my first month and I'm pretty much relying on Ankiapp (£25 for the official app?) for vocab, and a grammar book. I have a parallel text of a novel I enjoy that I'll probably start working through when I get decent at verb conjugation.

Tried Duolingo in the past and always thought it to be shit, are there any other resources I should be using?

>>77421465
>Ankiapp (£25 for the official app?)
you can get it for free on desktop.

>>77421465
I used memrise when I was at your stage. I thoguht it was way better than Duo. They have an official course for both A1 and A2 levels with about 2k words each and increasingly complex sentences (still simple comparatively).

Other than I just read books and posted on /deutsch/ sometimes. The parallel books are nice as well so you can directly see the word you're confused with in context.

Easy German on youtube was helpful as well for listening practice.

>>77423700
I know, but learning vocab on the go is pretty handy.
My only gripe with this knockoff is that my progress is reset every time I update my deck, unless I use their own deck editor, which is shit.

>>77423899
I'll give Memrise a go, heard a bit about it but never really read into it.
/deutsch/ seems alright for learning. I'm noticing myself recognising more and more of the words they use which is a nice sign.
For listening practice I'm trying to watch at least one German film a week with English subtitles, and am trying to listen to a German language music (where the fuck is it all hiding).

>>77424092
>am trying to listen to a German language music (where the fuck is it all hiding).
You like vocaloid? There are a handful of German weeb girls that make German covers of vocaloid songs. Here's my personal favorite of them: https://www.youtube.com/user/TamashiineKasuka

>/deutsch/ seems alright for learning
They're a bunch of shitposters (who isn't in a general?) but I find it helpful for learning ways to write/speak that aren't fake textbook sentences.

>>77424237
>You like vocaloid?
Not much of a weeb in general, but the music has never really bothered me. And taking a quick glance - the lyrics seems to be pretty clear (the subtitles are nice too), so I might use that a bit, thanks.

>They're a bunch of shitposters
But of course, but it's also a window into casual German conversation that I appreciate having. I'm able to keep an eye out for things I've recently been working on (for example, I was trying to memorise declension tables, it helps to see them used in context for a more robust understanding).

How do i know if im A1 or A2 in portuguese?
Also if anyone has doubts about spanish ask away!
>>77416850
>pic
Both are correct

>>77388220
Russian is different because it's not at all intuitive for English speakers. It'd take an Anglophone a few months at least to get to a basic conversational level.

>>77425652
To use a meme word, language proficiency is more of a spectrum than something with discrete levels. If you feel like you could be either, you're probably inbetween. Probably has a lot to do with learning method too and what vocab is focused early on.

FUCK WHY THE ITALIANS ARE SO ASOCIAL IN INTERNET?!

Really i need TALK WITH ANYONE IN THIS FUCKING LANGUAGE

>>77421352
>Québec French is pretty much the final boss of the French language.
I don't think it's that bad... A lot of the things you guys do in the spoken language also happen in a similar way in the spoken language of France.
You guys pronounce "elle ne me dit pas" as "a m'dit pâ", and the French say "è m'dit pa". You guys pronounce "sur la table" as "saa tab" and people from France say "sur la tab". Not much of a difference there...

I also agree learning French for Canadian francophones is great. At least, me and a couple Chinese friends of mine had a blast of a time in Quebec City when we left Vancouver and went there for a few months, and we're not even white. But of course we speak French.

>>77427124
loads of them on interpals who are chatty

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>>77427124
i lik spen

It's that Spanish speaking countries are the friendliest so it's all downhill from you.

>>77424092
Memrise is basically an alternative for Anki, mostly vocab drilling. Duolingo is better for grammar

>>77409726
>>77415780
A lot of it is cultural, the French take a lot of pride in their language and hate mistakes. You need to be at a higher level to practice with natives compared to Spanish

>>77409726
in my experience with french people, the guys from /fr/ were so kind to me, they always helped me out with my doubts and I used to post some texts from which they remaked my mistakes. But when I tried to do the same in facebook groups, they were effete arseholes... nowdays, I can speak french with certain degree of accuracy, I think i'm almost getting B2 but I don't use it, so....

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Thanks for rubbing it in Duo

>>77429886
>tfw you surpass your autistic level

>>77429886
Yeah some of these really hit me in the feels.

language learning really is all dedication and motivation isn't it
so many fucking rules to learn, you just have to put in the hours

I picked up the Routledge Hebrew textbook from the library today. I think I like this book.

>>77430595
Whoa, I didn't know Routledge did textbooks too. Apparently there's also Routledge textbooks for Biblical Hebrew, Persian and Moroccan Arabic. Huh.

>>77430516
A habit and discipline. Once the motivational phase and the newness of learning has gone you better be disciplined.

>>77427237
Yeah, obviously at the end of the day it's the same language, but the differences go beyond mere pronounciation. I mean, I've seen Frenchfags claim to need subtitles to watch something in Quebec French (though that might just be them being arrogant/snobbish).

Anyway, it's strange to see a Salvadorean Vancouverite know so much about Quebec French. Did you really learn all that just from your trip to Quebec City, or did you learn somewhere else?

>>77429886

(you are correct)

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>the Mari radio station I was listening to has only been playing Russian-language songs for the past two hours

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>>77391328
Anyone got a similar thing for German? I really struggle learning vocab, and also a ton of similar looking meme words that have very slight differences in their meanings to very different ones.

eggsmaple: hinzufügen, zufügen, beifügen, anfügen etc etc

How to tackle the vocab?

have cat

>>77433567
fight linguistic imperialism

>>77431534
>Anyway, it's strange to see a Salvadorean Vancouverite know so much about Quebec French. Did you really learn all that just from your trip to Quebec City, or did you learn somewhere else?
A variety of sources. Little handbooks and articles describing Quebec French written by linguists, plays (as in Michel Tremblay's stuff, even if the language is now a little outdated), YouTube, adding people I met in Quebec on Facebook and paying attention to how they write.

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The dative, Genitive and accusative bullshit is Frustrating me. I'm doing well in learning this fuck shit language But can't seem to fully grasp this bullshit. My current strategy involves just looking at it all and hooping it clicks. Day five and it still hasn't.

Tips lads?

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>>77435742
>Michel Tremblay's stuff
>mfw
how on earth do you manage to stomach such tripe

every single one of his plays is literally just "btw I'm gay xD"

I can see why it was relevant back in the 1970's, but today it just feels completely and utterly outdated, it really hasn't aged well at all imo.

>>77435841
I kinda wanna learn at least one language.
Was thinking:
Russian
German
Polish
Persian
Arabic

I know a little bit of russian (can sort of read the script OK but don't remember that many words), but I'm starting to have doubts because I feel like I've hit a bit of a wall.
Should I just start with German since it's probably the easiest, or keep going?

>>77435841
It's like he vs. him vs. his in English, but expanded to articles and adjectives (and nouns, kinda).

Don't you have something similar in Arabic anyway?
Nominative is like al-marfuu3, accusative is kind of like al-manSuub, genitive is kind of like al-majruur. Dative is what you use for indirect objects ("I gave a gift TO YOUR SISTER") and nouns after some prepositions. The cases are not the same between German and Arabic but there's a similar idea.

>>77435943
When you're a linguist with a mission you can stomach anything.

>>77436283
Haven't had much of a formal education, so i wouldn't know.

>>77436243
Yeah start with german, It's frustrating but beautiful

>>77436243
Sucks to be an English-native speaker. You only ever get to know a single language.

What is the point of en in this sentence? "Nous en sommes pour ainsi dire certaines."

>>77437382
What the fuck. What's the point of "de la" in this sentence? "À la fête, il y avait de la nourriture en abondance."

>>77437382
"en" (= "of it") here represents the complement of "certaines". "We are, so to speak, certain of it." (or "certain about it", "certain regarding that thing").

>>77437476
"de la" here is a partitive article, because nourriture is an uncountable noun. It's untranslatable into English. "At the party there was food in abundance."

Je veux du fromage. = I want cheese.
Il y avait de l'eau. = There was water.
Tu as de la fièvre. = You have fever.

>>77437476
French isn't like English, generally you always need to have a determiner.

Any situation where you could use the word "some" in English, in French is either "du" (which is in fact "de le", but for whatever reason it's wrong to say "de le" in French, you HAVE to use "du") or "de la", depending on gender.

>There was food in abundance.
this sentence is essentially the same as
>There was some food in abundance.
Therefore, it's "de la". If instead of being an indefinite sentence it were definite (e.g. "There was the food in abundance.", which is a bit of a weird sentence but gramatically possible), then you would simply use "la" instead of "de la".

>>77437382
It's one of the common uses of "en", as an antecedant, or in other words a way of saying something along the lines of "about it" or "of it".

For the sake of this mini-lesson, let's just ignore the "pour ainsi dire" part and focus on the essential part of the sentence:
>Nous sommes certaines.
We are certain.
>Nous en sommes certaines.
We are certain about it (or "of it").

>>77437714
>>77437746
Ah, so du is like de la. This makes a lot of sense thanks.

I dont like nous en sommes certaines though. I'll have to memorize this I guess

>>77438020
"en" is a tricky word, and often a subtle one, but it's a very useful one. Just think of it having a role as replacing a previous element for which you can't use a normal pronoun. In that example, it would therefore be "about it". Here's another typical example:
>I like fish. I want some.
J'aime le poisson. J'en veux.

Also, regarding the whole du/de la thing, just in case you still have some parts you don't understand, here's a quick summary:
>I want the cake.
Je veux le gâteau.
>I want a cake.
Je veux un gâteau.
>I want the cakes.
Je veux les gâteaux.
>I want (some) cakes.
Je veux des gâteaux.
>I want (some) cake.
Je veux du gâteau.

>>77438231
oh, and just like how "du" is actually "de le", "des" is actually "de les", so the last two lines should make a lot of sense to you now

>>77366506
It's not a bad idea per se. It can be a good learning experience since you are already familiar with the plot and content in your native language, so it's easier to infer the meaning of words by context.

Everything is allowed as long as it makes you achieve your goals and progress.

Though, most people also learn languages in order to be able to consume cultural works orginating from the culture associated with the resepective language.

>I use Harry Potter as a benchmark since the book series gets a bit more involved and mature as it goes on so I can gauge my progress fairly well. My only concern is that sentence constructions or speech patterns are unnatural for the target language, giving me awkward syntax when I go to write/speak.

Why would there be unnatural German in a book translated for a native German audience?

Welsh is such a nice language. Remind me of the time when i first learnt English, all different words but with a sense of similarity.

Also, mutations, while complex, seems to be mild to me, it's triggered by grammar and genders, but kind of logical.

>>77438983
funny, there's also a Greek who posted in /lang/ not so long ago who was learning Welsh

Have you dealt a lot with pronounciation yet? If so, how are you finding it?

>>77439121
I can get all the vowels and most of the consonants: i can do /ɬ/ even before i started to learn Welsh, i can do all the voiceless nasals, they're quite easy but it's harder when listening. The only sound i have trouble is /r̥/, i don't know how i could do trilled r without any vibrating?

>>77439339
[r̥] has "vibration". You trill the tongue against the alveolar ridge behind the teeth rapidly.
What it doesn't have is "voice" at your vocal cords.
Try pronouncing [r] while whispering and you'll sort of have an idea of what [r̥] sounds like.

What's your favorite non indo-european language family?

>>77440658
Thanks
>>77440878
Na-Dené, they're lit as fuck. They have long and short vowels, a large number of consonants (includes ejectives and other weird sounds), tones, and extremely complex word structures.

>нылыньнaлaн
>näläńnalan
man, the Latin alphabet is just so much easier to read for that sort of word

I wonder if I'll ever be able to read cyrillic as quickly as Latin

>>77440878
>tfw indo-european pleb

>Unsatisfied with the 3 or so books I looked into for learning language
>Decide to write a shitty "textbook" myself
Mastery means the ability to explain, r-right?

>>77440878
Semitic.

>>77445346
*Afro-Asiatic

>>77441959
Are latin and hangul the best alphabets ever?

Duolingo users, how fast do you go? Do you gild every skill? Do you try to remember everything or just rush through

>>77446412
I try to move pretty slow. I ought to make flashcards for each lesson, but don't have time. Duolingo seems like it would be pretty easy to just blaze through and learn very little, which would be a mistake.

I'm doing a lot of programs at once now: Pimsleur, Michel Thomas, Duolingo and Lingvist. I'm moving slow because of this, but I like that something I learn in one thing I can see in another. I'm progressing to an advanced level slower, but hoping that my foundations will be strong.

How hard would it be to go from relatively advanced in a language to fluent?
I speak good Dutch, and lived there, but not anymore so not sure how to make that next step up. Dutch TV is crap, music is crap, books are crap etc.

>>77447522
>but don't have time.
I should clarify this. I do have the time, it would just slow me down more and so I made a judgement call. I may go back later and do flashcards.

After I complete all these I want to try Clozemaster next. It's similar to Lingvist I hear.

>>77447599
Most Dutch tv and music is crap indeed, but there are many good books. I'll hook you up with some if you want. Or some magazines.

>>77447599
Hard. It's exponentially harder to get better because it's about learning increasingly esoteric vocab, nuance, and so on.

Lingvist in Spanish you can read ~60% of a text with 700 words. To read ~80%, you need ~1800. 90% you need ~4,000. 92% you need 5,000. So to near 100% probably have to know 25,000 words or something.

>>77447663
klinkt geweldig

>>77447721
yeah what I'm thinking. I've changed my phone/computer to Dutch just to get used to words I might otherwise not know but I got used to that pretty quick.

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>>77446089
Nope, Arabic is.
The phrase بسم الله الرحمن الحريم (bismi-llahi-rrahmani-rrahim) in different writing styles:
1. kufic (traditional, most ancient script)
2. naskh (standard script of today, used in printing - the Arabic phrase above is written in naskh)
3. ruq'ah (the handwriting style of modern Arabic)
4. diwani (a style developed by Ottoman scribes)
5. nasta'liq (invented by Persians, mostly used for writing Persian, Urdu and some other South Asian languages)
6. sini (a Chinese-influenced style)
7. thuluth (one of the primary Quranic styles)

>>77447891
>Different writing styles makes an alphabet great
Also, isn't nasta'liq less of a thing for "just" writing and more caligraphy/poetic stuff?

>>77447756
I'm hoping I can get from A0 to B2 for Spanish by 2019 (1.5 years or so), then C1 by 2020, C2 by 2022. 3.5 years seems like a very long time, but, I think that's just realistic for me based on my retardation.

I've only been studying for a month though, so maybe it will start clicking more after 6 and I'll be more optimistic.

>>77448225
2021*

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>>77447962
What else then? Besides, the Arabic script is very well tailored to suit the Arabic language. Just like the Latin script is sufficient to write Latin but requires tons of adjustments and additions to be useful for almost every other language.
>Also, isn't nasta'liq less of a thing for "just" writing and more caligraphy/poetic stuff?
Well, my Persian book teaches how to write tahriri (simplified nasta'liq) but Iranians mostly use naskh except for some headlines or banners. But in Pakistan nasta'liq is widely used for all purposes.

>>77447756
I hope you like comics.
Books I don't have so much, only what I just found on usenet.


https://mega.nz/#!yYlwTDoR!YyDW_6MyErnYoKk-O8WPOqdlEQfJ4oqkeLUapCYkwgw

>>77449063
I think you've posted a pic of your book before, it's in Russian, right?

>>77450204
Yep.

>>77446412
I think it works best if you go at 1 lesson (not skill) a day, and spend the rest of you time strengthening the skills.

>>77361854
Anyone here ever learned a minor Slavic language?

>>77362751
Is the Canadian culture so anti-intellectual that language learning is seen as a shameful thing?

Anglos, anglos....

>>77450470
In school I was trying to learn Serbian but gave up. I mostly liked how the anthems of Serbia and Montenegro sounded like (yours is very cool btw).

>>77450526
I think he's the Mari guy. It might be hard to try to convince people there's nothing wrong with learning a language spoken by a whopping 510k people.

>>77366394
Lol. Then why does every source say they are almost the same language?

>>77450554
There are some anthropologists who speak languages spoken by 100 people in the Amazon, 510k is actually a quite big number considering most languages are spoken by tribes.

>>77450679
The key here being anthropologists, not a random dude.

>>77450679
Well, they are scientists with a profession interest in it. It's basically like studying physiology or anatomy for doctors.
>>77450733
This. I've already started writing my own reply, kek.

>>77450534
You should try it outside school. I don't think it would be hard for you or me.

>>77374822
Well, to the level where I'd be able to read and translate ancient texts then.

>>77450816
I meant "when I was in school", it was like 6 years ago before the graduation.

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i don't want to be fluent
all i want to be able to do is read german literature

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bump

>>77454740
Are you of Turkish descendance? Or learning Turkish?

>>77456528
*descent

>>77456528
the latter