Any Muslims here been to Mecca? If so how was it?

>>77179345
my grandmother and father did. both said it was shit.

it is certainly interesting how a literal tiny rock has become the most important veneration place of the world

ah, religions

>>77179439
The rock is completly irrelevant and has no meaning.
They come for the "cube" wich is a house and supposed to be the house of Abraham.

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>>77179533
>The rock is completly irrelevant and has no meaning.
The rock came from space.

>>77179345
I went for umrah not hajj. It was hot and I was young. I enjoyed the all meat diet the Arabs had, and the dates were nice. Median was nice too. I think I'll appreciate it more when I go for hajj as an adult IA.

>>77179630
and they do worldwide and in this exact moment, so what

>>77179345
Mashallah brother it was a blessing mashallah thank Allah
>>77179364
Haram brother I'll pray for your soul inshallah

>>77179345
lul praying at a rock from space that ppl there prayed before their prophet came and preached the "real" faith,time to pray at a zeus statue and call myself christian

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>>77179658

>>77179658
>>77179630
Mohamed destroyed every Idol/piece of Pagan worship around the Kaaba but only let this rocks because they came from the sky. But he clearly said that they had no religious meaning, had no power or anything else.
He just didn't want to destroy a meteroit rock, and he liked it before he became/invent Islam.

>>77179751
we celebrate christmas and do a lot of pagan things as well, monotheism implementation was far from perfect

>>77179805
>But he clearly said that they had no religious meaning, had no power or anything else.
>and he liked it before he became/invent Islam.
Sounds contradictory.

The rock came first.

>>77179630
>>77179439
>>77179751
How do you guys all know about the Black Stone? Seems like a really obscure thing to know about considering I only knew about the one story with resetting the stone with cloth until I did more reaserch on it later. The mountains, the cube, the masjid, and the well are far more important.

>>77179813
>Christmas is pagan
Thought Spen was immune to baptist/fedora bullshit

>>77179855
It's pretty clear:
>No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither harm anyone nor benefit anyone.

It's just a stone, period. You can like a stone but giving him some power or anything goes against islamic tradition.

>>77179862
Meca is basic common knowledge and knowing about the rock and its story is just being a bit curious and searching in the web
>>77179868
>fedora bullshit
have you ever read the bible
there is no fucking way jesus was born even close to december

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>>77179862
>>77179901
>How do you guys all know about the Black Stone? Seems like a really obscure thing to know about
>The mountains, the cube, the masjid, and the well are far more important.
you are reading the story backwards. thats how most holy books are, the 30 or 40 years from Christ's birth to his crucifiction and resurrection

>>77179940
>the 30 or 40 years from Christ's birth to his crucifiction and resurrection
are missing.

>>77179908
Mecca isn't even relevant, it's just some place to pray, as a matter of fact, Muslims used to pray to Jerusalem for years before jews made Mohamed angry so he decided to change.
Mecca is literally just some back up place after jews betrayed their alliance with him and back stabbed him.

>>77179862
in school ,we did learn 10+years about orthodox faith and last year in school we did learn about all major faiths and how much better our faith is than the rest

>>77180021
as it should be

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>>77180019
>Mecca isn't even relevant
Haram, may Allah correct you

>>77180021
>Muh 1054
>Muh filioque

Literally creation a new sect because of minor autism

>>77180019
I don't know

We're told that Mecca is important, prayings have to be made facing it and you have to go there at least 1 time in your lifetime

not too much

>>77180021
Oh I see, that's interesting.
>>77179908
Yeah that makes sense, most people know about Mecca and the cube but that's it.
>>77179940
Age does not imply importance.

>>77179751
>tfw muhamad didn't bother to come up with a new arbitrary place of worship because all arabs already did a pilgrimage to Mecca
>"of course Abraham came here before, this cube used to be a room to communicate with angels!"
what a cheeky cunt

>>77179439
>>77179630
>>77179751
The rock is not important at all, I litterally learned about its existence from the internet. The Kaaba is just an empty room, only westerners are so obsessed with shiny symbols, they don't get how all muslims are praying to an empty room 5 times a day, the prayer in itself is more important than what we pray to.

>Literally throwing rocks against a wall

>>77180178
>only westerners are so obsessed with shiny symbols, they don't get how all muslims are praying to an empty room 5 times a day, the prayer in itself is more important than what we pray to.
then why go there

>>77180132
Yeah but the original place to face during prating was the temple mount of Jérusalem because Mohamed tought jews were his allies and would help him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibla

>Others surmise that the use of Jerusalem as the direction of prayer was to either induce the Jews of Medina to convert to Islam or to "win over their hearts."[6] When relations with the Jews soured, Muhammad changed the Qiblah towards Mecca.[7] Another reason given why the Qiblah was changed is that Jews viewed the use of Jerusalem as signalling the Muslims' intention of joining their religion. It was changed to discredit this assumption.[6]

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>>77180167
>Age does not imply importance.
Chronological events are very much important.

>>77180178
>praying to an empty room 5 times a day
>The rock is not important at all
The rock is a conduit for a loved one due to its significance. Any bimbo theologian or spiritualist knows that.

>>77180178

Westerners are obssesed with shiny symbols, they're like this bird that collect shiny stuffs kek, they can't into pur spirituality, no wonder they get all their religions from the East.

>>77180232
because the cube is called the house of god

>>77180247
i get tired of how all this religions end up in jews and fucking jews and jewish things

the eternal nose always wins

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>>77180296
>they can't into pur spirituality
>has to pray to this object 5 times a day
>must visit this object 1 time if your life
>'isn't even relevant'

>>77180310
As the Quran, Bible and Torahs days, they're God's chosen Bible. Almost all prophets are israelites, Jesus clearly say he's the King of Jews, half of the Quran is about the struggle of banu Israël.

They're the main characters of the 3 books, no doubt.

>>77180424
>As the Quran, Bible and Torahs days, they're God's chosen Bible. Almost all prophets are israelites, Jesus clearly say he's the King of Jews, half of the Quran is about the struggle of banu Israël.
I know, I'm just expressing my concern of how our lifes and thoughts and beliefs are being driven by the jews
what have religions given us? nothing, is a trick
it's not because white people is superior
we were poor and irrelevant and hungry too
it's just that we stopped giving religion importance and in that exact time things started to go better
i don't know if there is a god
or a force
but i know that these books are lies

>>77180232
Every country / culture has its rituals and pilgrimages, it has a great historical significance above all else

>>77180273
fuck off with your new age hippie mumbo jumbo

>>77180232
Because it's obligatory for Muslims to visit Mecca at least once in order to go to heaven.

Muslims on int

What is your opinion about yihad.

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>>77180499
>but i know that these books are lies
>not believing in Christ
Enjoy being hungry and irrelevant.

It was terrible. Wonder when this meme mythology end

>>77180499
It's true that Europe stopped being shitty in the enlightment period, and some backward religious institutions blocked scientific progress for many many centuries, shit like "ecclesia abhorret a sanguine" stopped medical progress.

But in some way you can be open minded/smart and religious, you just need the proper interpretation.

>>77180424
Purée, t'as de la patience. Ma jatekch fel bal twelli ostad ?

>>77180555
>new age hippie mumbo jumbo
>literally doing exactly what your religion demands
No wonder Muslims are so fucked. Most of them don't even know what their doing.

>>77180621
*Te met 2 heures de colles*

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>>77179533
>supposed to be the house of Abraham

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muslims are foot fetishists

>>77179345
Its propably full of ugly smelly loud sandniggers

>>77180701
It's not like anyone on this thread could verify this claim, we need a Time Machine or something.

>>77180733
You would feel at home then, mehmetoupolos

>>77180585
christ is a philosophical character
it appears in other mythologies, hindus have a similar almost exact one
jesus it's a symbol, its importance is spiritual, it teachs you innerly
i doubt he really existed as a physical person
and if he did, i really doubt those texts who were writter way after his death have anything of the things he said
just try to make up a good story
tell it to your neighbour
10 years later ask your neighbourhood about that
probably if you told that you loved your ill daughter they'll tell you that once a time a guy raped his daughter to death
people desperately want interesting things to fill out their sense of boringness in life
the most impressive a thing is the more it lasts
and if something is based on truth it will be deformed into being false just because of the above
you can't trust spoken stories
not even if the real son of god came
they will say the real story

>>77180564
If they are physically and financially able.

>>77180668
Non mais sah
ana nqarri drari en privé, ou bennesba liya je m'en sors bien. Mais là tu viens d'atteindre un niveau que je connaissais pas
wella rag bark mleggi hayer wash tdir ?

I wonder what the world would be like if islamic countries were christian instead

>>77180832
we would have 17 portugals

>>77180394
What the object is like or what it does isn't important, the fact that this object exists and that a muslim from Algeria, one from Idonesia, one from Pakistan and another from Turkey will unite around this object to perform a ritual, that's the important part

It may not seem like a big deal today but in the 7th century, people didn't travel as much.

>>77180232
read above

>>77180499
honestly i think these books have undeniable virtues but they infiltrate society so deeply, it's hard to make their influence go away

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>>77180758
>just try to make up a good story
Yea Christ should have raped more children. That would be waaaaaay cooler.

>>77180865
>isn't important
>unite around this object to perform a ritual, that's the important part
I wonder what would happen if the object was forcefully removed?

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>>77180756
Lmao did I trigger you sandnigger?

>>77180865
>these books have undeniable virtues
they're attempts to explain reality, you can't fail at everything

>it's hard to make their influence go away
yes, because it is naturaly human to be affraid of the unknown and we desperately want something to fill that fear

no matter how intelligent and culturized you are. we're made of natural selection. we fear death and the unknown because it can represent danger. religion makes us feel more confident about it. it tells us that everything has a why and we know what it is. it's the comfy choice.

>>77180917
Why the self hate?

>>77180908
have you mental difficulties?

check this 5

>>77180807
Vu que je compte faire de la recherche dans le publique je serais obligé d'être enseignant-chercheur il me semble, là je termine mon master infectiologie, microbiologie, virologie , immunologie on verra après, inchallah comme on dit :D

Sinon j'ai du mal à te comprendre, la derja écrite en lettres latines ça m'a toujours bloqué.

>>77180917
Did baba turki bullied you again greekun? No need to put your frustration back on us cuz kebab-man was mean :D

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>>77180956

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>>77180995
>>77180758
>probably if you told that you loved your ill daughter they'll tell you that once a time a guy raped his daughter to death
>have you mental difficulties?
This isn't a middle eastern court room. We don't need a few people to collaborate a story for it to be true.

In the real world you see the fruits of Christs seeds and they are great.

Imagine if we just bombed that shit.

>>77181154
*sigh*
if you're not in the mood to have a real discussion then i'll go to bed

>>77180638
Most muslims aren't aware there is a rock, or they reject it as a form of idolatry, only the peasants that are verging on paganism and can't even read will fall for the rock maymay. Like how in this country they fall for the sufi saints and perform semi-pagan rituals in their honor.

Btw I'm not muslim and I like those rituals because they're part of our culture, yet I won't lie to myself this shit was designed for stupid, naive people, like how many catholic churches claimed to have found relics from Jesus' time and whatnot, it's no wonder no one goes there today.

>>77181173
please, have some respect
I deeply appreciate Norway, don't gib me a little reason to dislike it
thanks

>>77181189
>Some random palestinian probably built his house or has a agricultural terrain on Jesus's grave

Absurd world lol

>>77181184
>then i'll go to bed
Maybe you should, since you're clearly void of any life or spirituality cause of your vice against God.

Just accept Christ and your life will make an utter change for the better.

>>77181189
>only the peasants that are verging on paganism and can't even read will fall for the rock maymay.
Right, only the educated Muslims blow themselves up and run you over with cars.

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Are Saudis retarded?
They destroyed the fortresss
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajyad_Fortress
to put a Big Ben Tower
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraj_Al_Bait
next to that holy site.

>>77181309
They need the space for sheltering visitors. May allah bless them.

Is there anything fun to do there besides praying?

Say you are forced to go there with your normie muslim family on summer holiday. Is there any redeeming feature besides praying?

>>77181309
Saudi literally exist in the first place in the 18th to fight off the ottoman domination and had wars with them, destroying an ottoman Fortress is like porn to them.

>>77179345
Daily reminder that muslim have no place in western world, stay in your midle east and leave west alone.

>>77181389
pipe down underdeveloped former ussr shit hole

>>77181361
Nigga every summer young "Muslims" guys go to the beachs with their bros to swim, drink like crazy, smoke weed, eat, fuck prostitute etc.

Your Idea of some puritan islamic world is really funny when you compare it to the reality of our lives here.

>>77181389
no, I will go to Latvia in September

>>77181309
Maginot line didn't work, nobody does static defence anymore. At least the clock tower can serve as observation post, sniper nest or maybe put UAV launching equipments.

>>77181400
HAHAHAHA
The guy who moved from he's shithole country to UK dares to claim that other countries are shit despite the fact that he didn't built UK.

>>77181418
For what purpouse?Belgium is way better country.

>>77181412
>young "Muslims" guys go to the beachs
>some puritan islamic world is really funny

>>77181412
but I mean what if you're one of those jack muslilms who go there. What the hell do you do there.

>>77181455
you cunt is irrelevant, seriously

you country didn't contribute ANYTHING to western civilization and you can't speak on behalf of West

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>>77181495
>pic related

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>>77181455
Was gonna tell you to kill yourself but considering your suicide rate you may actually do it

>>77181495
Almost every Muslim here is "Muslim" at least 80% of them. I really don't know much guys here who doesn't watch porn etc.

But deep down they're really religious and belivers, they just think they can make mistake and they'll stop in the futur to sin etc.

>>77181553
>>77181552
>I really don't know much guys here who doesn't watch porn etc.
Nice bro XDDDD

Muslims are my niggas now,,

>>77181545
Actualy we did, Latvian invented jeans and citric acid also was invented by Latvian, we had colonies and we have one of most beuthefull architecture in Eastern europe.

>>77181553
>Was gonna tell you to kill yourself but considering your suicide rate you may actually do it
I think you have no idea what you are talking about, muhhamad.Lithuania has big suicide rates not us.

>>77179345
Went there with a brother back in 2012 for Umrah. Makkah as a city is kind of a shithole desu but Medina was very nice.

>>77181578
Dunno why you're sperging out, there is conservative and more "liberal" hypcorits in islamic world and specially the maghreb, does it trigger you that not everyone is a fundamentalist?

>>77181618
Nothing really suggest that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeans

>>77181010
Ouais j'vois ce que tu veux dire. Bah ouais comme on dit, allah i sehhel. C'est bien de voir des enfants du pays entreprendre des trucs énormes comme ça. J'espère que tu comptes pas te barrer dès que t'as ton diplome au moins lel

>>77181671
Your link LITERALY sugests the fact that the guy was Latvian.

>>77181618
>have one of most beuthefull architecture
Built by Germans, you just luckily inherited it


>colonies

well, again, colonization attempt was done by Germans, while your ancestors were living in rural parts of Kurland

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>>77181671
>does it trigger you that not everyone is a fundamentalist?
>"Muslims" guys go to the beachs with their bros to swim, drink like crazy, smoke weed, eat, fuck prostitute etc.

Does it trigger you that mostly everyone is?

Does it trigger you that inequities of Islamic world have been highlighted by your own ignorance?

>>77181715
>Built by Germans, you just luckily inherited it
nah after purge of germans in 1905 a lot of architecture in Riga wasbuilt by Latvians which i am not denying was learned from germans.

>>77180908
>I wonder what would happen if the object was forcefully removed?
It was destroyed a couple of times and rebuilt, because it doesn't actually matter if Abraham built it or if it was anyone else, muslims are pretty self aware and won't autistically cry at the ruins of an arbitrary temple like jews, the place in itself isn't as important as the ritual

>>77180938
>they're attempts to explain reality
Not really, they're more of a tool to manipulate the masses

Religion doesn't answer to how things ended up like they did, it answers the why, no one can prove if there is or if there isn't an omnipotent force that put the universe into motion and willed living organisms into existence.

I think we agree on this.

>>77181697
l'Algérie n'a ni les structures, ni le matériel ou l'environnement pour la recherche malheureusement, ça serait une perte de temps d'essayer de travailler ici dans l'immédiat, dans un premier temps ça sera à l'étranger je pense. Suisse ou quebec ça serait bien vu que francophone.

>>77181715
Oh and about colonies sure germans where in total charge but there where a lot of Latvians who where in charge as well and most of colonists where Latvians.

>>77179345
god lives there

>>77181765
Not at all, I really couldn't care less about what people think or do, specially when it come to a personal matter like religion.
I don't get why you seem to be so upset about me sharing my experience in on online korean board.

>>77181805
So Thor lives inside of that box?

>>77181777
>the place in itself isn't as important as the ritual
The place is the importance of the ritual. Moses didnt descend from the Himalayas, Christ wasn't born in Seattle, Muhammed wasn't born in Nazareth, Muslims didnt rebuild their cube in Germany.

Etc, time and places and objects matter. Chronological events create the ritual, not the ritual creating the events.

>>77181836
>I don't get why you seem to be so upset about me sharing my experience in on online korean board.
I dont get why you're upset about me sharing my experience on a Cantonese image board.

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>>77181789
>>77181766

Oh look he's so cute trying to be relevant this hard :3
Yes my little latvia you wuz the most relevant ! agougogu. :)

LET ME CUDDLE LATVIA CHAN FIRST PLZZZ

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>>77181697

>drapeau francaise
>cette langue

quoi le baise

>>77181886
>Said a guy whos country was part of france just few years ago
ihb4 USSR
You sucked french cock for far longer then we sucked commie cock.And before french you have literaly nothing exept sucking roman cock.

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Mom can we please keep cute Latvia?? We've enough space for that!

>>77181766
>During this time of a developing Latvian national identity, a relatively small number of the architects were ethnic Latvians (with Latvian as their first language), but they designed nearly 40% of all new buildings in Riga in the early 20th century

And that's from Latvian nationalistic source
Your "proud" history was invented about 25 years ago, your population is literally fleeing to western countries yet you dare to speak on behalf of the West.

>>77180758
Tacitus mentions Jesus and how he was executed.

However later Monks added a bunch of bullshit about him doing miracles n' shiet. In the original Tacitus text it just says he was a teacher and rabble-rouser.

>>77179868
>baptist/fedora bullshit
It's also what they taught in my Catholic school.

>>77181916
This is how nations lose their IQ, goodbye france.

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>>77181929
Latvian history book can be classified as BDSM porn.

*Small baltic twink get gang raped by German, Russian, slavic, swedish, polish bull for 1000 years, anal, 720p*

>>77181785
Ah ? J'aurais dit la France. La Suisse serait tellement le bon plan purée, t'as tous mes vœux de réussite gros. Mais fais gaffe la Suisse n'est pas entièrement francophone hein, puis malheureusement j'crois qu'ils te fileront pas le passeport européen parce que ce pays est particulier. À vérifier, mais en tout cas si tu viens en France normalement t'auras le passeport euro direct nchallah.

>>77181916
>Amerishart confused to see a French speaking French
American education strikes yet again

>>77181964
>Your "proud" history was invented about 25 years ago
What are you talking about?
>your population is literally fleeing to western countries yet you dare to speak on behalf of the West.
If you don't like ethnic Latvians who live in belgium genocide the fuckers i don't care belgium for belgians, also muslims aren't fleeing to west?

>>77181993

I was saying wtf because this maghrebi guy is speaking half french and half derja - its incomprehensible and Moliere would be triggered if he were alive today

>>77181951
Your country isn't an ethno state mate, it was literaly drawn by some french on map.

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>>77182019
More confused by the rag on that girls head.

And I don't mean French flag.

>>77182008
And your country isn't?

>>77182019
Merci c'est touchant. Plein de réussite à toi aussi dans ce que tu fais ou feras.
Ah mais j'ai les papiers depuis la naissance de part mon grand père (il a travaillé là bas dans les années 70) et père donc, c'est pas un problème ça.
Et entre nous, niveau $$$ la Suisse c'est autre chose que leurs voisins français. :)

>>77182019

kek tu penses que t'es "francais"?

Je suis francophone et je connais bien que "Ma jatekch fel bal twelli ostad" n'est pas francais. T'es con comme la plupart des maghrebins ici

>>77182025
>If you don't like ethnic Latvians who live in belgium genocide the fuckers i don't care belgium for belgians

Why would I genocide whole ethnic group, based on my personal perception of one/two people
I'd rather genocide any native belgian than any hard-working, law-obedient foreigner, regardless of their ethnic/religious background

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>>77182067
>>77182041
>Being this clueless

Cute!

>>77182086
Qubecocus? Ou expat?

>>77180865
>the fact that this object exists and that a muslim from Algeria, one from Idonesia, one from Pakistan and another from Turkey will unite around this object to perform a ritual, that's the important part
That's kinda like the Eucharistic sacrament in Christianity. All of the statues and stuff aren't the objects being worshipped; they're just a symbol to remind the faithful of their religious obligations.

>>77179345
>a place where pagans worship their multiple gods
Not anymore! It's the house of god on earth with rocks from heaven and shiet :^)
t.prophet muhammad

>>77182110
>I'd rather genocide any native belgian than any hard-working, law-obedient foreigner, regardless of their ethnic/religious background
Your not an ethnic belgan.

>>77181876
>Chronological events create the ritual, not the ritual creating the events
It was first set to Jerusalem before Mecca, the pagan ritual of the time made place for a new muslim ritual, in this case, the ritual created the event. But now that it's set in stone, it will be hard to tell all muslims to pray to a new location.

By the way, in the middle ages, muslims from all over the Maghreb and al Andalus used to do a pilgrimage to Qayrawan because it was cheaper and closer, rulers and oulamas of the time let it slide, another example of the ritual creating the event.

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>>77182113
Sure thing muhhmed

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>>77182008
>Small baltic twink get gang raped by German, Russian, slavic, swedish, polish bull for 1000 years, anal, 720p
So, is this an actual film or...? Just asking for a friend.

>>77182148
That's because no such thing exists. There's Flemish and Walloons and some Germans in the east.

>>77179862
4chan
autists know very few random facts about the world but they get obsessed with them and meme about the same shit all the time

>>77182113

Je suis americain monsieur mouloud. Prends un <toi> pour la supposition

>>77182164
Also funny to note that in the medieval era, all the boats that were used to do the pilgrim to mecca were owned and controlled by Christians, italians states most of the time.

There is a good historian podcast on that.

>>77180019
>flag
>jews are evil
deal with us

>>77182115
I'm still disappointed in muslims following the eternal jew, Islam doesn't forbid Iconography, yet they wanted to stick to the ten commandments and stay cucked by our jewish overlords.

>>77182180
Well i allways thought that flemish and walloons where like Kurlandians and Latgalians here, same people with few cultural and dialect diferances.

>>77182148
>there is no such a thing as "ethnic" belgian to start with

>>77182164
>>77182219
Your literally giving example of how the times and places are more important than the prayer or ritual.

If you aren't in right time or play you may as well not pray because your message is more than likely not received.

Its has nothing to do with jews and everything to do with Muslims not being willing to admit their a pagan religion.

>>77182059
>France has muslim immigrants from its ex-colony in NA
>shart confused
American education is strong with this one.

>>77182075
Surtout pour ça que j'te la conseille ! T'économises un peu et t'as ton palace; puis hé, niveau paysage la Suisse se fout pas de ta gueule non plus. Le pays est plus petit, plus propre et plus joli que la France.
C'est bien que t'aies déjà les papiers, ça te fera un souci en moins. Là je m'inscris dans le supérieur et laisse tomber le mal de tête que me file toute cette paperasse à la con. je crie toujours au false flag mais si quelqu'un me dit qu'il a fait un attentat à cause de l'administration française je le crois sur parole.

>>77182086
>kek tu penses que t'es "francais"?
Je ne pense pas, c'est le gouvernement qui le dit lel. Ils me donnent même des papiers pour le prouver. Tu rages ou bien ?
>not being monolingual is unnatural for the Sh*rt
You guys are doing this on purpouse, aren't you ?

Where'd you learn French any way ? You seem to write it better than most people here, I'm seriously impressed.

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>>77182176
>Some cute innocent smart piggo got brutually murdered and his dead corpse eaten by some savage

That's cruality man, we're in 2017 veganism exists.

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>>77182237

Rappel quotidien que la Belgique n'est pas un pays :-)

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>>77182264
Nah thanks but no thanks i love meat so much.You should try as well.

>>77182164
>It was first set to Jerusalem before Mecca
It was Mecca first, then Jerusalem, then back to Mecca.
Read Quran. Read History. Everyone knows this.

>>77182265
Looks tasty desu, is this pork ?

>>77182219
Never said that, why you extrapolate my words friend.

Mohamed fuck jews, I mean literally fuck some of them, he had jewish spouse like Safiyya bint Huyayy, if he hated them he wouldn't marry them tho.

>>77182263
>France has muslim immigrants from its ex-colony in NA
There were no Muslims in NA during colonial times, Muslims should stop injecting themselves into Enlightenment principles.

French presence in colonies was pathetically small compared to Spanish and English, so don't try to play both sides.

So muslims, give me a simple answer, which is better, Christianity or Islam?

>>77182298
Yes

>>77182303
>literally fuck some of them
kek, nothing wrong with that. that means he loved them right.

>>77182306
None, fuck abrahamic relligions, GO PAGANISM!

>>77182226
Literally two different peoples, speaking different languages.

>>77182223
>muh joos
K...

>>77182263

>You guys are doing this on purpouse, aren't you ?

Nan, j'ai dit ca a cause de tes conneries. T'as dit que j'etais un "Amerishart confused to see a French speaking French" mais tu connais bien que ton mélange des langues n'est pas français à la base. J'ai appris le français en France pas loin de chez toi - j'imagine que tu viens du sud non? Marseille?

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>>77182303
>why you extrapolate my words friend.
Jews have a masochistic fetish. They never miss an occasion to bring on their victim complex, it literally gives them a hardon. Niggers should seek help baka.

>>77182306
According to what criteria ? What do you even mean by better ?

>>77182316
Kinda sad that people go to hell over this. I don't even like red meat

>>77181272
That's how He would've wanted it

>>77182367
Why would anyone go to hell for eating rondom animal that was literaly bred out for domestic usage?

>>77182246
>Muslims not being willing to admit their a pagan religion

>the whole religion's point is to believe in one god
>pagan religion
Let me guess, you're a christian ? Well, Judaism comes from the pagan religion of the hebrew peoples, Christianity is a mix of Judaism and Zoroastrianism, and Islam is a mix of Arab folklore and Christianity. No monotheistic religion is pure, let's not even bring up the pagan concepts and rituals that infiltrated those religions after mass conversions.

Even the egyptians tried to turn their religion into monotheism at some point (with no success).

>>77181272
Feel as though i should clarify though considering your flag. There is no grave. Jesus ascended to heaven

>>77182263
Les paysages c'est pas ma priorité je sors pas souvent.
La burocratie est une invention du diable ouais. Entre les photos, certificat, bac, relevés de notes, lettre motivation, photo c'est un casse tête pire que les études.

>>77182388
Of course he could, he built the slave mentality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master–slave_morality#Slave_morality

>>77182350
without them, we wouldn't have Christianity, Islam or Judaism, the world would have been a much better place.

Do you guys think Muhammad was mentally ill?

>>77182423
Don't much care for an argument on the Internet lad. I'm off to bed, God bless x

>>77182413
I like how the Abrahamic God was originally in all likelihood just part of a pantheon, but his particular cult put the others out of competition.

>>77182413
>Let me guess, you're a christian ?
Don't point the finger at me, Muslims are the confused ones. Thats why they are blowing themselves up and their religions is fracturing.

A pagan religion doesn't have to be polytheistic, its like Muslims aren't even taught basics about religious systems.

>>77182330
paganism is not a religion, it's rather subculture which usually attracts ethnic collectivists as yourself

If pagan gods were real, why would they allow their total destruction and humiliation by Christians?

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>>77182223
>Islam doesn't forbid Iconography
I'm deeply interested to hear you elaborate on this.

>>77182360
Je vis à Paris en ce moment, mais originellement je suis Maghrébin. Tu as vécu ici, quelle(s) ville(s) ? Qu'est-ce que t'en as pensé ?

>>77181189
>Most muslims aren't aware there is a rock, or they reject it as a form of idolatry
Literally 1% of muslim, mainly known as Wahhabis.
>only the peasants that are verging on paganism and can't even read will fall for the rock maymay
So 90% of muslims.

>>77182404
Because God said so ? Duh.

>>77182421
>2017

>He didn't invent his own made mysticim to understand that the random guy that islam talk about as the one who was killed by mistake in place of the Jesus is actually the real Jesus as he was the truly innocent one killed for no reason

Get on my level of crazyness kiddo

>>77182453
>Thats why they are blowing themselves up

If it's was a main concept of Islam, Dearborn would have terrorist attacks on daily basis

Terroristic acts are committed by very, literally VERY small minority of Muslims

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>>77182423
J'adore les lettres de motiv et les entretiens, ce sont des moments de ma vie où je suis en position d'extrème domination grâce à Dieu. Pourtant je suis asocial voire même autiste en général, mais pour écrire et passer des entretiens faut croire que j'ai le bon coup de patte. Mais ouais, chercher les putains de certificats et toutes ces conneries est juste l'enfer.

>>77182447
Are you Christian ?

>>77182451
>>77182413

The historical origin of the proto-monotheism is very unclear, the lack of documents and the fact that's a sensitive subject make it even harder.

Monolatrism and henotheism seem to be the craddle of all this.

>>77182471

>Paris

ah bon? moi j'ai fait mes etudes a aix-en-provence (une "ville" provencal des bobos). Heureusement je vais revenir en France bientôt pour faire mes études au niveau master - c'est beacoup moins cher chez toi.

>Qu'est-ce que t'en as pensé ?

Franchement j'aime bien la France. La nourriture, les filles, la langue - c'est un pays genial quoi. Tu est né en France ou à Algérie?

>>77182499
>Dearborn would have terrorist attacks on daily basis
>Terroristic acts are committed by very, literally VERY small minority of Muslims
The beliefs are held by hundreds of millions of people, which gives rise to the many many terrorist attacks.

Including many in Dearborn.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2017/04/06/khalil-abu-rayyan-isis/100090964/

>>77182465
>If pagan gods were real, why would they allow their total destruction and humiliation by Christians?
If allah is real why did he alow western nations to invade north africa/midle east and indonesia and make muslims slaves and humiliate them?
Same thing.

>>77182471
>Because God said so ? Duh.
That dosen't make any sence.

>>77182465
ALso
>paganism is not a religion, it's rather subculture which usually attracts ethnic collectivists as yourself
Implaying loving your own people based on ethnic and cultural lines is a bad thing

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>>77182584
Hmm, we were never slave sweetie, in m'y City we did enslave (and put as tributarian) people from the 200 countries that exists, quoting each if them would take me an hour lmao.

>>77182651
Dosen't matter about your country in specific, it still happened.

>>77182562
these people are tricked, because they are as many of view have black/white view on this world

They lack of critical thinking

>>77182584
fact is that there are more 1 and half billion Muslims in the world and about several thousands LARPing pagans

>>77182675
Nope, no Muslim country or Muslim ever get enslaved really, european protectorate stopped slavery actually lol.

Islamic history is 10 centuries of domination, Glory over Africa, eastern and southern Europe, and most of asia. Deal with it, cucks.
It had a bad century (1850-1950) that's all

>>77182714
>fact is that there are more 1 and half billion Muslims in the world and about several thousands LARPing pagans
Implaying that all relligions isn't just LARPing

>>77182633
well, I didn't say that protecting your national culture is a bad thing, escpecially such a small as Latvian's one but it's very clear for me that modern day paganism is folklor/subculture thing not a real faith

>>77182738

>It had a bad century (1850-1950)

Would you not consider the current century to be bad for Islam? The arab spring illustrated just how unstable your region of the world is

>>77182738
PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
You ALLWAYS sucked, despite few empires that include otomon and that one which counqered iberia (Can't remember what it was called) you have nothing.
ihb4 other midle eastern civilisations
They where not muslim at the time.

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>>77179345
The actual mosque is actually pretty pretty comfy when it's not a busy day. You could just sit there for hours and relax, other than that, Mecca is shit, It's between the mountains and at the same time tightly packed with buildings and hotels, literally just a dick measuring fest. Hardly see any saudis or arabs at all there, Fucking pakis took over, some of them literally live in the mosque for free air conditioning and free water

>>77182760
Islamic world since several decades has a huge boom (hm) in every of his aspects, economical growth, scientific papier production, education, quality of life etc. it's catching up very quickly on every matter.

But it's really islam related or anything, it's the case for all the 3rd world, the west stagnate, probably because it reached some plateau or something.

>>77182549
Carrément, les pauvres doivent souffrir chez toi pour étudier. J'aime bien la Provence, mais je supporte pas les bobos. M'enfin, au moins ils sont pas aussi chiants et méprisants que les Parisiens.
J'suis né en Afrique du Nord et j'y ai grandi; j'ai été emmené ici contre ma volonté quand j'étais gosse. Mon but à moyen/long terme est de retourner m'installer chez moi, dans mon vrai pays, avec mon peuple. J'en ai marre de la France ;_;
C'est effectivevement un pays magnifique, objectivement - même si je ne supporte pas d'y vivre, mais mon avis ne change rien à la réalité. Tu comptes t'y installer définitivement ? Je serais intéressé de savoir comment tu vis le fait d'être coupé de ta famille et tes racines. Tu ne te sens pas trop dépaysé ici ? Beaucoup de choses en France sont différentes des US. J'ai une fois accueillie une amie qui venait d'Amérique ici, elle n'arrêtait pas de manger du fromage et boire du vin parce que c'est tellement moins cher ici lol. On était justement passé en Provence, elle a découvert les coups de soleil.
Évite seuement de commettre la même erreur que moi; j'ai longtemps associé à toute la France l'idée que je m'étais faite de Paris. C'est un pays très grand et très ancien, immensément riche en cultures et traditions diverses. Tu peux avoir l'impression de changer de continent en parcourant à peine 100km en France tellement les mœurs sont variées. Je ne sais pas si c'est ton délire, mais n'hésite pas à faire de l'auto-stop quand tu es en France, même pour un Français de souche ça permet de découvrir des facettes nouvelles et discrètes du pays.
also
>cuisine provencale
muh dik

>>77182605
>facts don't make any sense
Guess I can't help you past this point lad.

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>>77181361
>Oh hey it's summer let's go to mecca for the billionth time
Story of my life until i moved out

>>77182836
Only becouse some book says that some diaty in sky says you can't eat some rondom animal and fosen't give a proper explanation is not enough of a fact for me.

>>77182787
Only the ottoman and ummayad are relevant to you?

What about the mighty Abbassid that crushed China and Rome? The mamelouk that crushed Mongols and crusaders? The almoravid and almohad that Christian feared? The fatimid that vassalized byzantinian, southern italy, and made mediteranean sea their own play girls? Hafid/Zianid that stopped crusaders? Mughal, timur, sultanat of dheli that ruled indian sub continent? Etc.

Europe was a dwarf in front of the islamic Giant. Stuffs change.

>>77182453
>Pagans and paganism was a pejorative for the same polytheistic group, implying "inferiority". Paganism has broadly connoted "religion of the peasantry", and for much of its history was a derogatory term

If you're not using "paganism" as a synonym for polytheism, then you're just insulting that religion, what do you want me to do? Insult it with you? I'm trying to be objective, not trying to be an autistic manchild.

>>77182471
Idolatry is forbidden in the quran, multiple times, however Iconography wasn't mentionned, Sunnis follow Umar, that said the commandments offered a clear answer, Shias don't listen to him so Iconography is okay for them as long as it doesn't offend Sunnis (that's another rule stating all muslims belong to the ummah and should find mutual understanding instead of being mean to each other).

>So 90% of muslims.
Given they're told about its existence.

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GDP 1000 years ago.

Islamic India and caliphate as first World economy and third with 29% and 19% of world's GDP.
Africa as 12% and western Europe at 8%
Poland and russia at 2% lol.

>>77182891
>What about the mighty Abbassid that crushed China and Rome?
Rome was failing in the hands of gyals and northern germans, they where not abble to defend their non european theritories.
>he mamelouk that crushed Mongols and crusaders?
Wheren't mongols muslims themselves?Also crusaders invaded judea with no problem so yeah not sure why allah all mighty was not able to prevent that.
>The almoravid and almohad that Christian feared?
Never heard of those have to do more reaserch
>The fatimid that vassalized byzantinian, southern italy
No one vassalised byzantium fagg it fell to Otomons after Crusaders fucked up the city beyon repair
>Europe was a dwarf in front of the islamic Giant. Stuffs change.
nah Greeks beated your ass TRICE, Romans kicked you out, French and and english did as well.And now USA and israel is kicking you again.

>>77183015
Oh and also Siege of Vienna didn't go so well either, not sure why allah didn't make you win that one.

>>77183009
Europe had dark ages back then, and full with plague.

>>77182836

> j'ai été emmené ici contre ma volonté quand j'étais gosse

C'est merdique, ca. J'espere tu peux trouver le bonheur a l'afrique du nord en tout cas.

>Tu ne te sens pas trop dépaysé ici ?

Pas du tout. La france est un pays occidentale comme le mienne et je suis blanc comme la plupart des francais. Je sens parfois que la france et l'europe sont "mes peuples" aussi et j'en ai marre de vivre dans un pays sans culture et sans histoire culturelle. A la base j'ai le meme sentiment que toi pêh

>Tu comptes t'y installer définitivement ?

Si je peux trouver une PA francaise pourquoi pas? Moi j'aime bien le mode de vie francaise vu qu ' ils ont des vacances de 2 mois kek. C'est un choix entre l'argent (usa) et les temps libre (france) en tout cas

>>77183009
Also muslims where minority in ''''''''īslamic india'''''' most of people who brought the actual welth where hindu poos in the loos and that is becouse of their gigantic numbers

>>77183015
Mongols didn't converted during ait jallut or homs Battlestar, it happend after during the illkhanate.


Crusaders literally lost 9 crusaders on 10, don't make me post a list of all their battles. They had some tiny band of land while Iberia (and southern italy) was Muslims, so much for their priorities.

>No one vassalised byzantium fagg it fell to Otomons

Byzantium literally had to pay a lot each year to the arabic empire to keep peace

>>77183079
Arabic World alone had 3 times the economy of Europe. It's not even islam related, mena région was already richer since always and even the richest roman province were egypt, Anatolian, levant, tunsia etc.
Post 5th century and pre-15th renaissance Europe was shit

>>77183031
Islam make it clear that God make anyone win and lose, and Roman will win and lose.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ar-Rum
>The Romans were vanquished in the closer region, and they, after being vanquished, will prevail within a certain number of years.

The degenerate ottoman of this time didn't deserve it.

>>77183230
This part
>He helps whom He wills.

God give Victory to the people he wants, Muslims doesn't have a priority on that

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>>77182866
You just answered >>77182404 you question.

>>77183061
>J'espere tu peux trouver le bonheur a l'afrique du nord en tout cas.
Oh c'est déjà trouvé, le Coran m'apprend que le bonheur se trouve dans le cœur et pas en dehors. M'enfin je sais que ma mentalité est plus compatible avec mon pays d'origine, alors autant y aller au lieu de transformer mon environnement comme la plupart des abrutis de mon espèce font. En tout cas c'est gentil, j'espère aussi que t'y plairas ici. Comme j'ai dit c'est un beau pays, pour peu qu'on soit sensible à ses nombreux charmes.
>Si je peux trouver une PA francaise
Ça ne te tente pas de t'engager un peu plus, comme un mariage ou fonder une famille ? Le truc quand tu t'installes dans un pays pour une fille; si jamais ça finit mal - ce que je n'espère pas -, généralement les gens quittent le pays pour échapper à la lassitude et aux regrets. Ce serait vraiment dommage que ça arrive. OU, si tu te cases avec une Américaine, essaye de l'emmener ici ?
Tu penses pouvoir travailler en Amérique si tu étudies en France ? Je sais que certains de nos diplomes sont reconnus à l'étranger mais pas tous. Nous aussi, on a pas mal de diplomes "meme"

>>77182994
>If you're not using "paganism" as a synonym for polytheism, then you're just insulting that religion,
>he thinks pagans were 1 religion
Holy shit Muslims really are brainwashed.

>>77183304
>Coran m'apprend que le bonheur se trouve dans le cœur et pas en dehors.

Ça fait un peu phrase clichée d'un spot publicitaire d'un groupe évangéliste ultra chrétien.

Je vois pas dans quelle partie du Coran on parle de bonheur ou de bonheur dans le coeur, le Coran n'est pas un texte eudemonique écrit par un hippie, le Coran et la vie de Mahomet c'est une lutte constante contre soi meme, ses désirs et contre tout le monde, la douleur, la guerre, la faim, l'exaltation de la souffrance existentielle comme apex de la vraie foi.

C'est pareil dans le Christianisme si on le lit bien d'ailleurs

>>77182438
Sort yourself out, bucko.

>>77182264
Just dropping in to say that pigs are traitorous swines and must not be pitied.

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>>77183079
What do you think ? God even let Muhammad lose battles and then said "lol u should hav seen ur faces faggots I'm the boss here I decide who wins and who is a frail useless bitch" in Quran. Being muslim doesn't automatically involve being victorious thanks to God, because if it was the case what would happen when muslims fight each other ?
The reason why muslims used to be so strong and dominate was because Islam is such a healthy and moral lifestyle it just pushes people to be the best they can. Nothing to do with divine intervention.

>>77183393
>Ça fait un peu phrase clichée d'un spot publicitaire d'un groupe évangéliste ultra chrétien.
Tu peux pas savoir à quel point ça me frustre de ne pas trouver un meilleur moyen d'exprimer ça que ce genre de phrases très cliché; pourtant je suis d'habitude relativement habile dans le domaine. Mais bon, j'ai poussé la recherche autant que j'ai pu et les résultats de mes expériences se traduisent difficilement dans le langage commun, d'où le recours aux expressions simples et toutes faites.
>lutte constante contre soi meme, ses désirs et contre tout le monde, la douleur, la guerre, la faim, l'exaltation de la souffrance existentielle
Ces "activités" sont les équivalents spirituels de ce que sont le sexe, le sport et le combat pour le corps; de même pour les sensations de jouissance, de paix et de force qui en résultent. D'ailleurs, pour ce qui est de la paix du cœur, flemme de rassembler tous les versets qui la mentionnent parce que quand tu les assembles de façon logique t'obtiens une image assez claire, mais je vais me contenter d'en citer un qui les représente de façon assez fidèle.
Je passe souvent pas la gare du Nord à Paris, je ne sais pas si tu l'as déjà empruntée mais sur les quais des RER B et D sont affichées des équations et des formules scientifiques sans légende, sans signification desl ettres, sans unité... bah moi j'y comprends rien.

>>77183393
Pareil quand tu expliques E=mc2 à quelqu'un. "quoi, de l'énergie égale de la matière multipliée par de la lumière ? wtf cé tro psychosophique pour moi rentre chez toi"
Quelqu'un qui n'a pas été éduqué dans l'art de représenter les lois physiques dans le language mathématique se retrouvera perplexe lorsque confronté à une expression de la vérité, tout simplement parce qu'il ne maîtrise pas ces outils mentaux. Tu me montres un script écrit dans une langage que je ne connais pas, pourtant je suis confiant dans mon habileté à comprendre plus ou moins ce qu'il fait; ça vient simplement de mon expérience à lire et écrire du code informatique. De la même façon, quelqu'un qui n'a pas trop passé de temps à méditer les versets aura du mal à saisir des fignifications telles que celle que j'ai évoquée. Pourtant j'en ai fait l'expérience, et je l'ai confirmée de sorte à atteindre le plus haut degré de certitude (et non pas de croyance) vis à vis de cet enseignement.
Honnêtement je comprends très bien que de telles phrases ne soient pas comprises ou soient vues comme cliché, mais souvent quand je parle avec quelqu'un qui a passé beaucoup de temps avec le Coran on se comprend très vite.

>C'est pareil dans le Christianisme si on le lit bien d'ailleurs
Malheureusement j'en sais pas autant sur ce culte que je ne le voudrais. Pourtant je vais à la messe des fois avec un pote Catho, mais bon... les priorités, quoi.

>>77183794
Apologize https://youtu.be/6zbsUtQL4nY

>>77183801
Oui je comprends ce que tu veux dire, je pense que le lien personnel qui unit un homme à Dieu est difficilement exprimable, ça se ressent plus que ça ne se formule en une expression définie.

whats in the black box?

>>77183285
Seems like a good excuse.

>>77183992
>ça se ressent plus que ça ne se formule en une expression définie
Exactement, du coup je ne sais pas trop comment l'exprimer. Mais en gros comme il me disait de trouver le bonheur au bled; moi je serais toujours dans le même état peu importe où je suis dans le monde parce que mon bonheur dépend de mes pratiques spirituelles qui ont une grande influence dessus. Où je suis, ce que je bouffe, combien de fric j'ai... tout ça a arrêté de jouer un rôle dans mes inquiétudes et mes enchantements.

>>77184002
Some guy recorded it on YouTube, it changed from period to period. Now I think it's some names inscribed in gold or some shit, and a sun symbol if my memory is correct
Doesn't really matter what's inside tho, what matters is the temple itself.

>>77183354
>reading comprehension
meaning the religion you're calling "pagan", in this case, Islam

Here :

>If you're not using "paganism" as a synonym for polytheism, then you're just insulting Islam, what do you want me to do? Insult it with you? I'm trying to be objective, not trying to be an autistic manchild.

>>77184283
Pagan is a pejorative term. The only people that don't use it as an insult are weird larpers.

>>77179345
Dude I know went there and was nearly trampled to death on a bridge along with his mother and brother. Great were my keks when he spoke of all three of them leaping over the side to escape the rampaging Bosnians or whatever. Lucky for them it wasn't very high.