Really, the english pronunciation...

es muy fácil

>>77044467

Is hard for me ;_; I wan´t talk like a brit BUT I CAN´T!!


WHY LIVE?!!!

>>77044503
i was just joking, english pronunciation makes no sense at all

cough, though, through, rough, dough
bomb, tomb, comb

>>77044577

Hell i need some trips or... God help i wan´t to take an C1 exam.

>this meme

prove that every other language doesn't have difficult pronunciation on account of it being foreign

>>77044605
it's not the difficulty of making the noises (although th is one of the hardest noises to make in any language), but the variation in pronunciation of things spelt in the same way

>>77044605
>prove that every other language doesn't have difficult pronunciation on account of it being foreign

Honestly, what's difficult about the pronunciation of Spanish?I think it is a very simple language, few vowels, phonetic writing, consonants are simple and common digraphs; Removing the words of Basque or Aztec origin, everything is simple.

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>>77044605
The only difficult sound in Finnish is the R. Some diphthongs might be weird as well, like "yö", but otherwise it's a very simple language pronunciation wise. We even have vowel harmony to help with that. Stress is also always on the first syllable. We also have a falling intonation instead of the rollercoaster that it is in English.

The sounds in English aren't necessarily that difficult on their own, but sometimes you have to switch your tongue to a completely different position very quickly and that tends to cause problems. Of course it gets easier with practice, but it is completely arbitrary and you have to learn each word separately to know where to put the stress etc

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>tfw I hate to speak English because my accent is stupid and ugly af

It's one of the only languages that make me sound like a silly teenager

>>77044683
Spanish has /θ/, if English learners struggle with it, they will struggle with Spanish too.

>read (rid)
>read (red)

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>>77045077
>tear
>tear

>eye
>i

>steak
>break
>streak
>bleak

>plague
>plaque
>ague

>billet
>ballet

>blood
>flood
>food

>wind
>mind

>>77045026

+1 All the romance speakers had this problem.

Fucking anglo.

>>77045077
>read ever being pronounced like 'rid'

>>77045026
Guess french english students are too self aware like the spanish ones
>>77044981
We have the same R than finnish. Its probably easier phonologically for a spaniard than for an anglo
>>77044605
Bias because its your native language

>The weather was beginning to affect his affect.
>A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.
>They were too close to the door to close it.
>Don't desert me here in the desert!
>Do you know what a buck does to does?
>When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
>How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?
>The insurance was invalid for the invalid.
>He could lead if he would get the lead out.
>After a number of injections my jaw got number.
>I did not object to the object.
>We must polish the Polish furniture.
>He thought it was time to present the present.
>The farm was used to produce produce. The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
>There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.
>I seconded the motion that the official be seconded to another department.
>A seamstress and a sewer fell down into the sewer.
>To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.
>I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.
>Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.
>The wind was too strong to wind the sail.
>The bandage was wound around the wound.
>I was reading a book in Reading, Berkshire.

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>the "TH" sound

Who was the retard who came up with that idea?

>>77045270
>>77045368
I don't sound naturally manly and 'very masculine', but when I speak other romance languages, slavic languages, germanic languages (English excluded) I sound 'normal'

But when I speak English, no.

It's really frustrating, because I like your language and it's the Lingua Franca...

>>77045593
Put the tip of your tongue under the top row of teeth to make a th sound. Make a fff sound like this and it'll come out as a th sound.

>>77045683

How many languages you know?

>>77045724
I know. Doesn't answer my question tho'

>>77045737
French, English, Spanish.

But when I record myself saying some shit in Russian, German, Swedish, Finnish, Polish...I sound 'normal'

>>77045746
https://www.quora.com/How-did-the-th-sound-in-English-develop-and-why-is-it-so-hard-for-most-non-native-speakers-to-pronounce
>>77045769
Record some English for us

>>77045810
Sorry, I have no mic

>>77044605
You seriously can't lack awareness to this extent. The English language has an absolute arseload of phonemes inherited from dozens of language and not a lick of consistency.
Most other languages are either far more phonetically consistent or at least have a script which is far more representative of the spoken language. Take Polish and Dutch, for example: both sinfully ugly languages but still manage to be written like they sound. Sure, it sounds like someone dry heaving a lot but at least you can read it and know how to pronounce words without necessarily having to hear them spoken first a few times by a native.
With English, you're pretty much fucked because there is almost no reliable way of telling how something is read just by reading the word. We take that shit for granted, really.

>>77045810
noice

stupid forest niggers

you're just struggling because English is the innate language of the human being
I imagine dogs would complain about it too

>>77044605
No. Some languages have more complex and diverse sounds than others. Some have long and short vowels, some don't.
Japanese and chinese are as foreign to the average westerner, but japanese with its simple sound system will be much easier to pronounce than chinese.

>>77045903
Gee, sure could do with the input from a Paki cunt. Oh wait, no one asked for that. Fuck off.

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>>77045810
>This sound goes back all the way to Proto-Germanic

>>77045184
Do it the french way
>stek
>brek
>strek
>blek

>>77045959
>not 'striiiiiik' and 'bliiiiiiik'

YOU ARE NOT FRENCH!

>>77045296
thats because you autists pronounce the letter I as /aj/ instead of /i/ or /i:/ like it should be

>>77045903
If humans naturally speak english, what do brits speak?

>>77045593
and why the fuck are [θ] and [ð] both written as <th>?

>>77045983
>french
>long vowels
'No'

>>77045026
stop this meme people love the french accent on both genders

>>77045515
wtf english is retarded

>>77046097
Blame the Brits and their mongrel ancestors.

>>77045593
What is wrong with it? I quite liked the voiced version of it.

>>77046214
no one can pronounce it

>>77046097
People who didn't have those sounds in their language couldn't hear the difference, and they already had a writing system and didn't feel like making up new characters because muh Roman alphabet.

>>77046214
>i like the voiced dental fricative
it's the ugliest sound in english

>>77044383
english pronunciation... is the best pronunciation

Dental fricative [θ] exists in Spanish too
"Z" and the "ce/ci" use it
Latin americans hate it and use "s" in its place but they instantly sound very spanish if they use it

>>77046269
Me and my countrymen can through, probably because we have aspirated t /tʰ/ that somehow very similar to /θ/ (except you don't put your tongue between your teeth).

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1RjoZL2kBbP

>>77045593
I don't even know how to pronounce this shit

I just pronounce it like a V.

(at least, I don't make this shitty typically french 'Z' sound, kek)

>>77046528
Post the text version and I'll record it.
>inb4 just write it down yourself

>>77046424
I don't think /θ/ sounds very much like like /tʰ/ at all, but then again, Finns have a similar problem; in the absence of /θ/, non-fluent English-speakers tend to just use /t/ for /θ/, /ð/ and /tʰ/. "Tuu tii tu töötituu," as a foreign minister supposedly said when ordering tea to room 32.

>>77046557
Do you pronounce [θ] as f then too?

>>77046584
I used to do that too until I learnt how to pronounce [θ] and [ð]. I still sometimes struggle with them when I need to switch from another sound to one of the dental fricatives or vice versa.

>>77045593
i can't even make the voiceless dental fricative and i'm a native english speaker. voiced is the only version that matters, really.

>>77046528
Reeeeeee

>>77046692
What do you substitute the unvoiced version with?

>>77045959
France is so hard that even Walloons can't even speak it properly

>>77046725
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th-fronting

/ð/ becomes /v/ except for at the start of a word, /θ/ always becomes /f/. i didn't even realise i did it until a few days ago.

English is easy you fucking cunts, if you get something wrong it get's chicks wet where as if you fuck up something in Europe they just think you're rude or an idiot

>>77046692
just blow out air and place your tongue on the bottom of your top teeth.
I don't understand why so many have such a problem with this

>>77046787
i CAN make it, it's just awkward and unnatural to do. like in the word depths, i simply can't pronounce it with a /θ/, it's almost impossible to do.

>>77046571
I thought a thought. But the thought I thought wasn't the thought I thought I thought.

Three thin thieves thought a thousand thoughts. Now if three thin thieves thought a thousand thoughts how many thoughts did each thief think?

The thirty-three thankful thieves thought that they thanked the other thirty-three thankful thieves throughout Thursday.

Father, mother, sister, brother - hand in hand with one another.

They threw three thick things.

Thirty thousand thoughtless boys thought they would make a thundering noise. So the thirty thousand thumbs thumbed on the thirty thousand drums.

Is this the thing? - Yes, this is the thing.

>>77045959
kek

>>77045593
greeks?
Although don't Icelandics use it as well?

It's no doubt the rarest consonant sound in English

>>77046818
>they threw three T H I C C things

>>77046854
Yup, Greeks, Icelandics, Spaniards and some Arabs do. Dunno who else. I like it btw, it's fun to pronounce

>>77046854
iirc θ is pronounced as an aspirated t in greek

>>77046919
In ancient greek yes, modern greek it's pronounced like th in English.

>>77046902
Burmese has it too.

>niggas whomst pronounce /ʍ/ as /w/

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>Dearest creature in creation
Studying English pronunciation,

I will teach you in my verse
Sounds like corpse, corps, horse and worse

I will keep you, Susy, busy,
Make your head with heat grow dizzy.

Tear in eye your dress you'll tear,
So shall I! Oh, hear my prayer,

Pray, console your loving poet,
Make my coat look new, dear, sew it!

Just compare heart, beard and heard,
Dies and diet, lord and word,

Sword and sward, retain and Britain.
(Mind the latter, how it's written).

Made has not the sound of bade,
Say said, pay-paid, laid, but plaid.

Now I surely will not plague you
With such words as vague and ague,

But be careful how you speak,
Say break, steak, but bleak and streak.

Previous, precious, fuchsia, via,
Pipe, snipe, recipe and choir,

Cloven, oven, how and low,
Script, receipt, shoe, poem, toe.

Hear me say, devoid of trickery:
Daughter, laughter and Terpsichore,

Typhoid, measles, topsails, aisles.
Exiles, similes, reviles.

Wholly, holly, signal, signing.
Thames, examining, combining

Scholar, vicar, and cigar,
Solar, mica, war, and far.

From "desire": desirable--admirable from "admire."
Lumber, plumber, bier, but brier.

Chatham, brougham, renown, but known.
Knowledge, done, but gone and tone,

One, anemone. Balmoral.
Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel,

Gertrude, German, wind, and mind.
Scene, Melpomene, mankind,

Tortoise, turquoise, chamois-leather,
Reading, reading, heathen, heather.

This phonetic labyrinth
Gives moss, gross, brook, brooch, ninth, plinth.

Billet does not end like ballet;
Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet;

Blood and flood are not like food,
Nor is mould like should and would.

Banquet is not nearly parquet,
Which is said to rime with "darky."

Viscous, Viscount, load, and broad.
Toward, to forward, to reward.

And your pronunciation's O.K.,
When you say correctly: croquet.

Rounded, wounded, grieve, and sieve,
Friend and fiend, alive, and live,

Liberty, library, heave, and heaven,
Rachel, ache, moustache, eleven,

...

>>77046097
There was a phonetic shift where all words ending in /dVr/ became /ðVr/.
e.g. father, brother, weather, rather etc. So easy to remember this class of words.

Grimm's Law accounts for most others iirc. I'm not familiar with the rules that predict which ones are voiced. Originally, they were the same phoneme. I'm not aware of any situations where you can interchange the two and get two different words.

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>>77047117
We say hallowed, but allowed,
People, leopard, towed, but vowed.

Mark the difference, moreover,
Between mover, plover, Dover,

Leeches, breeches, wise, precise,
Chalice, but police, and lice.

Camel, constable, unstable,
Principle, disciple, label,

Petal, penal, and canal,
Wait, surmise, plait, promise, pal.

Suit, suite, ruin, circuit, conduit,
Rime with "shirk it" and "beyond it."

But it is not hard to tell,
Why it's pall, mall, but Pall Mall.

Muscle, muscular, gaol, iron,
Timber, climber, bullion, lion,

Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, and chair,
Senator, spectator, mayor,

Ivy, privy, famous, clamour
And enamour rime with hammer.

Pussy, hussy, and possess,
Desert, but dessert, address.

Golf, wolf, countenance, lieutenants.
Hoist, in lieu of flags, left pennants.

River, rival, tomb, bomb, comb,
Doll and roll and some and home.

Stranger does not rime with anger.
Neither does devour with clangour.

Soul, but foul and gaunt but aunt.
Font, front, won't, want, grand, and grant.

Shoes, goes, does. Now first say: finger.
And then: singer, ginger, linger,

Real, zeal, mauve, gauze, and gauge,
Marriage, foliage, mirage, age.

Query does not rime with very,
Nor does fury sound like bury.

Dost, lost, post; and doth, cloth, loth;
Job, Job; blossom, bosom, oath.

Though the difference seems little,
We say actual, but victual.

Seat, sweat; chaste, caste.; Leigh, eight, height;
Put, nut; granite, and unite.

Reefer does not rime with deafer,
Feoffer does, and zephyr, heifer.

Dull, bull, Geoffrey, George, ate, late,
Hint, pint, Senate, but sedate.

Scenic, Arabic, Pacific,
Science, conscience, scientific,

Tour, but our and succour, four,
Gas, alas, and Arkansas.

Sea, idea, guinea, area,
Psalm, Maria, but malaria,

Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean,
Doctrine, turpentine, marine.

Compare alien with Italian,
Dandelion with battalion.

Sally with ally, yea, ye,
Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, key, quay.

Say aver, but ever, fever.

...

>>77047068
am i h'white?

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>>77047180
Neither, leisure, skein, receiver.

Never guess--it is not safe:
We say calves, valves, half, but Ralph.

Heron, granary, canary,
Crevice and device, and eyrie,

Face but preface, but efface,
Phlegm, phlegmatic, ass, glass, bass.

Large, but target, gin, give, verging,
Ought, out, joust, and scour, but scourging,

Ear but earn, and wear and bear
Do not rime with here, but ere.

Seven is right, but so is even,
Hyphen, roughen, nephew, Stephen,

Monkey, donkey, clerk, and jerk,
Asp, grasp, wasp, and cork and work.

Pronunciation--think of psyche--!
Is a paling, stout and spikey,

Won't it make you lose your wits,
Writing "groats" and saying "grits"?

It's a dark abyss or tunnel,
Strewn with stones, like rowlock, gunwale,

Islington and Isle of Wight,
Housewife, verdict, and indict!

Don't you think so, reader, rather,
Saying lather, bather, father?

Finally: which rimes with "enough"
Though, through, plough, cough, hough, or tough?

Hiccough has the sound of "cup."
My advice is--give it up!

>>77047195
>finnish
>white
sorry honey

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>>77046818
Terrible language tbqhwu
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0yAYnMDnfJe

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>>77047229
>tfh'w not white

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Fun times in the school of trying to talk (as in, actually flap your tongue, lips and stuff) about sounds in other languages with someone from a different linguistic background. Shit effectively becomes a game of broken telephone the instant anyone opens their mouth instead of shutting up and scribbling down IPA symbols.

>What you think a sound is supposed to be
>What you think the sound is
>What you try to pronounce
>What you actually went and said (silly you)
>What the other person expected you to say
>What the other person's ear heard (reception in auditory phonetics)
>What the other person's brain heard (perception in auditory phonetics)
>What the other person expected to hear
>etc
>mfw

>>77047297
it's funny because i'm the whitest
https://my.mixtape.moe/sggzbd.mp3

>>77047440
You gotta get rid of your mother tongue's categorial perception if you wanna learn another language. Then it is not hard to just imitate the sounds another person makes.
On paper/via internet, you really need IPA though. I've seen some people write overly complicated pronunciations with IPA though, such as US-Americans putting a nasal tilde over every single vowel symbol.

Maybe I'm just a dumb American, but I actually love English spelling. When you read a word, you can infer the layers of history contained in that word. It's a whole additional level of connotative meaning or implied history that can add a lot to both poetry and prose. It's like seeing the rings of a tree. It's the difference between hardwood flooring and ceramic tiles.

The only spelling reforms I would propose are bring back æ, θ, and ð because they convey history.

>>77047636
if you want to bring æ back then you silly americans need to stop spelling encyclopædia as 'encyclopedia'

>>77047661
I would reserve æ for the vowel in cat, fat, sat, etc. as it was in Old English.

>>77047636
>When you read a word, you can infer the layers of history contained in that word.
But that's not something that should be part of an everyday task such as writing stuff. If you're interested in etymology and linguistics, you should study that shit or at least look it up in a dictionary.
I would be all in favor of bringing back the ol' English letters (but thorn instead of theta), but to use them in a orthographically flat alphabet, perfectly depicting current pronunciation.
>>77047661
Not really, since it's pronouned /i/ in that case.

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>tfw everyone else is wrong

>>77044653
>th is one of the hardest noises to make in any language
reallly????

>>77047822
yes lad, not many languages have /ð/ or /θ/, let alone both.

>>77047720
>But that's not something that should be part of an everyday task such as writing stuff.
Sure. I definitely empathize with this argument.

>>77047822
>The voiceless dental non-sibilant fricative is a type of consonantal sound used in some spoken languages. It is familiar to English speakers as the 'th' in thing. Though rather rare as a phoneme in the world's inventory of languages, it is encountered in some of the most widespread and influential[.]
>This sound and its voiced counterpart are rare phonemes. Among the more than 60 languages with over 10 million speakers, only English, Modern Standard Arabic, Standard European Spanish, Burmese, and Greek have the voiceless dental non-sibilant fricative.[citation needed] Speakers of languages and dialects without the sound sometimes have difficulty producing or distinguishing it from similar sounds, especially if they have had no chance to acquire it in childhood, and typically replace it with a voiceless alveolar fricative (/s/) (as in Indonesian), voiceless dental stop (/t/), or a voiceless labiodental fricative (/f/); known respectively as th-alveolarization, th-stopping,[1] and th-fronting.[2]
>The sound is known to have disappeared from a number of languages[.]

>>77045593
t. 250 vowels

>>77045077
>>77045184
>>77045515
wtf i hate english now

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>>77047262
Nice job my guy

>>77047985
Thanks. Did I mispronounce anything besides "another" sounding a bit awkward?

>>77048008
No it's pretty much perfect. All I would say is make the h sound in th a little less breathy

>>77048008
your if sounded a bit odd, not enough emphasis on the f.

>>77048061
Ok, I'll try to remember that.

>>77048067
Gonna record it again.

brb

>>77048008
I've heard native Minnesota accents that sounded weirder than that.

>>77048008
You pronounced boys wrong

>>77048220
well you need to remember that French is also a language in Canada so maybe they just speak that at home

>>77046818
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1ZSxNGgKCju

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>>77046818
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1IM69kyQyET
I made an attempt.

>>77048293
very good

>>77048339
hilariously french

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>>77048339

french/10
people honestly like the french accent don't feel as if losing it is of vital importance

>>77048288
No I'm talking about the general Scandinavian derived accent. Finanon could pass for an isolated Swedish farmer out in the country, although give it 50 years and this accent will be extinct.

>>77048339
That's the Frenchest accent I've ever heard lol.

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>>77048067
>>77048220
>>77048257
Tried this four times and somehow fucked up "thoughtless" but w/e
http://vocaroo.com/i/s05VjLllIKkA

>>77048293
Good.

>>77048339
french/10

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Also something I have noticed when comparing English and Finnish - Finnish is spoken more from the throat and English from the mouth, or something like that, and I struggle to make the exact same sounds as native speakers do even though I have been surrounded by the language daily for the past 20 years.

>>77048468
Your best [θ] are in Thursday at :19, thought at :29, and thing at :38.
It's almost like you tend to pronounce it [θʰ] if that makes sense. You sound Minnesotan which is quite fine.

>>77048407
>>77048432
>>77048429
I actually don't mind my french accent, contrary to many French (which is the reason why they refuse to even attempt at speaking english)
Also gives me an excuse for not speaking correctly
>Well I'm French, what did you expect ?
and it's a good way to entertain people

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>>77048729
Hm, ok. Finnish has nothing like "th" in it so I struggle with differentiating the voiced and unvoiced unless I'm reading IPA. Had similar issues when learning Esperanto - I couldn't most of the time distinguish z, c, g, probably because Finnish only has one variety of any given consonant, if that makes sense. We have K, but we don't have Q or hard C, and G is only used in loanwords and the -ng sound which isn't really a g. In my mind K, Q, hard C, and G are different forms of the same consonant sound, and only one of them exists in Finnish. Same with S and then Z/soft C. Then again differentiating between long and short vowels/consonants is very easy whereas it might be very difficult for a foreigner (for example tuli, tuuli, tulli)

>>77048941
Man, i can understand long vowels, but how do you do long consonants? Do you say it out loud or something?

>>77049113
Most of the time when I read a long consonant, I pronounce as final consonant in a word and first consonant in the other word. For example, if I read the word "tukku" (just a random word), I would read them as "tuk-ku".

>>77048941
Yeah I've noticed Linus Torvalds doesn't distinguish between s/z. At least Hindi isn't the world language.
>>77049113
An easy way to understand geminated consonants is that sometimes a syllable ends with a certain consonant and the next syllable begins with the same consonant. If you say each syllable separately, you'll end up saying the consonant twice. If you connect the syllables normally, it sounds like one long consonant.

>>77049299
Yeah exactly. With plosives, it means delayed release.

>>77049315
Torvalds native tongue is Swedish. But the same holds true there regarding s and z.

>>77049415
Oh wow I didn't realize that.

>>77045956
;^)

>>77047222
nice one. efl teacher here, totally going to work with this.

>>77050104
how the fuck do you get a job teaching e elves

>>77045057
>Spanish has /θ/
partially.

>>77050890
Spanish (traditional) has it
Spanish (simplified) is the one that lacks dental fricative

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>>77049113
>>77049299
Burger got it right. >>77049315
>If you connect the syllables normally, it sounds like one long consonant.

Tukku in Finnish means "wholesale" btw

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>>77052336
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0T4Obl4BGz5

Tuli, tuuli, tulli, tuku, tukku (tuku doesn't mean anything but I said it to give an example of how a single k would sound)

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>abbreviation of William is Billy
>abbreviation of Richard is Dick
>abbreviation of Father is Dad

>>77055109
Just you wait till you hear Russian nicknames

þreadly reminder ðat ƿe should bring ðese letters back

>>77045184
Don't forget

>lead
>lead
>led

>lie
>lie
>lye

so why did brits butcher their vocals so bad anyway? I heard some centuries ago english was pronounced in a more continental way

>>77056067
>threadly reminder dhat we should bring dhese letters back
What the fuck?

>whore
>horror

English isn't a retarded lang-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo

>>77061255
Those two sound nothing alike

>>77045515
I love how it just naturally changes as you say it, the only thing that tripped me up was does to does

>>77064835
i.. have no idea how that can be correct :(

>>77045184
week
weak
wick

>>77064835
It makes sense in speech if you put a common or semicolon halfway through

>>77054622
Americans are literally, genetically incapable of irony. It's mind-boggling what you can bait some of them with

>>77044383
at least it's not an african language m8, the amount of phonemes those fuckers have

>>77045026
literally all English speakers like the French accent
stop being insecure about this

>>77066668
It literally says it in the article. Are you retarded?