Romance languages thread

1-the best romance language is spanish
>best poets
>best writers
>easier grammar
>easier phonetics
2- I know french and I love it, but pronounciation is an issue
3-I don't know desu, but the most famous are
>don quijote de la mancha
>cien años de soledad
>pedro páramo
>el aleph
>rayuela

>>76926540
Yes I think that Spanish is the easiest one, but idk if is the best
Is it that hard to pronounce French? just seems a bit fast but not that hard anon

>>76926617
it is difficult because things are not pronounce the way are written. For instance "empêcher" is pronounce like "Ampéché" and intentions "AnTansion", besides, the last letter is always demeaned, croissant (croasAn) , ils mangent (il mange- they eat), so it may be a bit hard to tell whether they use the singular or plural, if you only follow phonetics.

>>76926436
>Best
Portuguese. Brazilian Portuguese to be specific.
>Want to learn
Romanian. I like the romance system of conjugation and I want to try a language with cases.

boa noite

>>76926899
B-buenas noches

I really like Italy and would like to learn italian, but i feel like spanish would be more useful.
If spaniard only had better cuisine.

>>76926436
I speak spanish and i would like to learn italian, it just sounds too good and it seems so easy

>>76926540
Italian has way more better poeta than spanish ( Leopardi, Foscolo, Montale, Dante, Petrarca etc..)

>>76927011
But spanish has better writers doesn't it?
Im just guessing cause i know more spanish witers

>>76927132
Ehh yes and no, after all poets are also writers no?

>>76927011
no at all. We have borges, pablo neruda, becquec, lope vega, garcilasso, garcía lorca, juan ramón jímenez, ruben darío
>>76927132
i think so, García marquez, borges, cortazar, juan rulfo, and many spaniards whose name i don't remember right now

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>>76927197
You got me on that

>>76927011
no way dawg, remember that spanish has an entire continent to get poets from

>>76927259
*takes a deep breath*
Saba
Ungaretti
Carducci
Pascoli
Quasimodo
Alfieri
D'Annunzio
Pavese
*exhales*

Mi piacerebbe adesso imparare il francese, ma capire quei francesi quando parlano semplicemente non è realistico.

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>Which is the best Romance language and why?
Spanish has the best preserved grammar, but sounds the silliest;
French has the richest vocabulary, but is a spelling mess;
Romanian is the most beautiful, but is full of slavshit.

>Which Romance language you want to or you are already learning?
Learning French, can understand Spanish as a free bonus of knowing Portuguese.
I might learn Romanian one day.

>Which books are a must read in you language?
O Cortiço. Not much else, I find most stuff really boring. Unless you like short stories, our cronistas are really nice.

Sorry for not mentioning you anywhere, Italia-kun.

Name some modern day, living authors and not just copy-paste some literature students curriculum.

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The 15th of this month I'm finally starting my French classes. Very excited about it desu, lots of qts that share something in common with me so it will be easy to start a conversation. My favorite kind of place.

>>76927311
this

>>76926436
>Which is the best Romance language and why?
Portuguese desu. It (mostly) has the same god tier grammar of Spanish except that it sounds way cooler. I can't forgive Spanish for not even having a "z" sound.

>>76927311
Italian has 800 years of history to take from juan

>>76927451
this is not matter of counting poets-which is pointless and really extense task in spanish literature- it's about quality. I have to recognise that italian poetry influenced our ealier poets, such as garcilasso and lope vega who adopted the style of italian poetry like sonets, songs, lira, hendecasyllable verse and so on. It's difficult to compare petrarca and dante with any other poets of any litterature because they where
literary schools themselves, but I think that ruben darío, borges and lope de vega can be used for this purpose. besides, the generations of writers in spanish literature in the XIXth and XXth century is really difficult to attain. anyways, i'm not belittling italian literature which is one of the best in the world and it's difficult to find a greater influence in arts than italian culture.

>>76926436
>Don't forget to come to Brazil
what do u mean

>>76927741
I'm sad that Spanish lost the /ʒ/ and /ʃ/ sounds desu

>>76927836
yuck

>>76927778
Pff Dante and Petrarca were poets as many other of their time (Cavalcanti, Guinizzelli, Guido delle colonne and a lot more) , they just were the Best

>>76927888
>sho
ayyy

>>76927888
colombians womens are beautiful?
I'm thinking in travel to Colombia in my next vacation.

>>76927964
No, they are all goblins and orcs from Mordor. Ask the Spaniards about it

>>76927977
orc pussy is hot i want to fuck one

>>76926824
>Romanian
Right on, dude. I'm slowly learning Romanian on my own.

>>76927758
Same with spain.

>>76926436
Hey asshole why Romanian ain't there?!

Italy has the most refined culture but Spaniards have more of an asshole edge which allowed them to gain and accumulate power to spread their influence

>Which is the best Romance language and why?
french, because it sounds smooth and polite. besides, france is the greatest cultural nation in the world.

>Which Romance language you want to or you are already learning?
i'm learning french. but i can understand spanish (spoken and written) and a lil bit of italian (written).

>Which books are a must read in you language?
Dom Casmurro

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>>76928267
>french, because it sounds smooth and polite. besides, france is the greatest cultural nation in the world.
> it sounds smooth and polite.
> the greatest cultural nation in the world.

>>76929062
D'accord, quoique j'apprends le français, c'était une langue plutôt aggressive et moche au debut. Maintenant telle impression s'a diminuée, mais selon moi il est encore une langue que n'a pas beaucoup de suavité.
Pourquoi les gens en croyaient s'agiter de la langue de l'amour m'est un mystère. Peut-être à car de le R gargarisé (?) qu'a quasiment disparu ces jours-ci. C'est une de les seules choses que j'aime.

>>76926436
>There is no such thing as Romance language


A French can't understand an Italian nor a Spaniard, nor a Romanian can understand a French.

French/Spanish/Portuguese/Orccitan/Romanian/Italian are language family on their own

>>76929321
Le R guttural c'est l'une des choses que j'aime le moins de cette langue avec les sons nasaux. ces traits sont partagés avec le portugais, Langue que je n'aime pas trop non plus.

>>76929425
http://vocaroo.com/i/s16NacbjQAjt

>>76927451
>>76927259
>>76926540
Luís Vaz de Camões
Gil Vicente
José Saramago
Eça de Queirós
Antero de Quental
Virgílio Ferreira
Bocage
Miguel Torga
Alexandre Herculano
Almeida Garret
Cesário Verde
Padre António Vieira
Machado de Assis

All these are well-known by anyone here. Plus all the Brazilian writers I don't know about besides the latter two and even Angolan/Mozambican writers.

And then we have Fernando Pessoa, which with his pseudonyms using different styles is basically another array of poets/writers by himself:
Fernando Pessoa
Alberto Caeiro
Álvaro de Campos
Ricardo Reis
Bernardo Soares

We also have a bunch of Galician/Portuguese poetry/songwriting from way back in the day in Cantigas de amor, Cantigas de amigo and Cantgas de escárnio e maldizer. We also had poet kings and our national holiday is the day of death of Luís de Camões.

AND we then have all the GOAT singers/songwriters across the ages from fado to bossa nova, which, and I admittedly don't know about comparing them to other romance languages, but they are way more complex than their contemporary English.

Galician/Portuguese have been poetry languages from their inception, almost, and were used as such by the people who spoke it.

Texas here. I am around Spanish everyday and I have a very good grasp of the language. However, I love Italian! It's easy and gorgeous to my ear. I really want to learn Romanian because of the Latin-esque grammar and cool sound.

Opinions on Romansch?

>>76929566
Bonne prononciation. à perfectionner mais parfaitement comprehensible.
Tu parles de ce son là https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_uvular_fricative Le R en Portugais varie beaucoup selon les regions d'après ce que j'ai compris. Ceci dit le son "Portugais" (de PORRA) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_uvular_fricative est parfois utilisé en français aussi. ça depends des personnes et des regions.

>>76929566
Your French is good m8

An interesting thing I have noticed is that the various anglophones I have come across (specially ones that don't have a lot of contact with foreign languages) heavily prefer the sound of Brazilian-Portuguese to the general sound of other romance languages (though French is a strong one to beat for them).
Anglophones are also more prone to mistaking brief samples of Brazilian-Portuguese for Russian. A common elaboration of this conclusion is that it is too nasal for being Italian, the rhythm of it is too odd for being Spanish and the shh sounds end up making them pick a slavic language.

>Which is the best Romance language and why?
They're all great.
>Which Romance language you want to or you are already learning?
I studied Spanish for a few years and I have a small interest in learning Italian.
>Which books are a must read in you language?
I won't recommend books but I will second this >>76929578 and recommend the old cantigas.

https://youtu.be/D_L-9HzoNgM

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>>76929702
Ohhh, apparament il y a du "Voiced uvular fricative" et du "Uvular trill": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uvular_trill
Uvular trill est probablement lequel à que je pensait, Boris Vian était mon inspiration pour choisir cette sorte de R:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjndTXyk3mw

>>76930009
Merci, à toi et au anon antérieur aussi. Ces jours-ci je n'ai pas autant de contact avec la langue que je voudrais, mais j'ai chargé des épisodes de Ladybug & Chat Noir en espérant qu'eux me soient une source de motivation. Bientôt la troisième saison de Wakfu sera aussi lancée, je vais l'essayé regarder en Français avec des sous-titres.

En tout cas, c'est trop tard, bonne nuit à tous.

>>76930570
Brazilian? I have recently seen a Poruguese guy mentioning how their dialect was the Slavest non-slav language around and, by trying to forget it was Portuguese, I managed to really visualize it as some sort of weird Russian.
Hard to tell with Brazilian Portuguese since it's hard to "turn off" my understanding of the language, but the nasal argument makes sense.

>>76926436
All Romance languages are fucking shit. Anyone who speaks French and Italian automatically sounds like a nu-male faggot. Spanish and Portuguese are spoken by third world spics, so there's that. And Romanian...eh.

>>76930668
(você)

>>76930608
>Brazilian?
Yes, and the majority of the time it wasn't even a southern accent. It was a sertanejo accent (my own).
>the Slavest non-slav language around
Yuro-PT confuses the shit out of anglophones kek

Weren't the original French people Germanic, why do they speak a Latin language?

Te pierzi în cristale
de lacrimi amare,
Magia dispare
când suferi în soare

>>76927741
>I can't forgive Spanish for not even having a "z" sound.
Spanish has a z sound ya dingus.

>>76930722
The Franks were germanic
The french are the Gallo-roman population

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>>76927741
>tfw you realize latinos dont even know they have seseo
I thought you hated the "z" sound anyway, its everywhere in your language but you never use it
https://youtu.be/i5v5RGhC67U

Learning French right now. vocabulary is easy but the phenology and Rs are too difficult. Other romance languages are much easier in that regard.

> wanted to learn Italian and adored all things Italian
> came to Bari in Southern Italy
> all the charm instantly disappeared
> would better learn Moldavian

>>76926771
Intentions is pronounced INtenssiON

>>76929425
The guttural ''r'' is a social costruction of the late XVIII century spreaded only from that time up to 1950. Before, all oil languages were pronunced with a normal r.
Old french wouldn't have sounded so much different from some oc dialects as provençau or vivaroaupenc

>>76931321
>Bari
>Civilized world

Lmfao go northward man not in Maghreb

>>76932191
lmfao and there is the meme here that ''muh R guttural because they wiz germoneyk''.
Stupid ignorant americans.

>>76926436
OCCITAN IS THE BEST. Just listen... the perfect romance language. Not harsh as french, not musically strange as iberian languages, not like us and not slavic tied as romanian

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1se2xsAfyk

>>76932262
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziu2zd8gwRI

>>76926617
When did the "spanish is easy" meme started? LOL

>>76927259
Mezclar literatura española y sudaca es un sacrilegio y una herejía. Bebe lejía, amigo.

>>76932551
Spanish is probably the easiest among latin languages.

>>76932573
¿cuál es la diferencia entre las dos?

>>76928099
because we're a small poor and irrelevant shithole in eastern jewrape?
also the language is really small
i'm surprised there is a portugues flag instead of a brazillian one there

>>76932617
If you say so...
Then why the vast majority of people that states that "spanish is easy" talk like retarded apes? (no gender concordance, ser/estar issues, non conjugated verbs, shitty vocabulary, awful pronuntiation...).

>>76932827
Same.

>>76932995
Because the vast majority of americans are retards who butcher any language they try to learn

>>76930783
depressing :(

>>76932551
my guess is the same plural rules as french(british), shared vocab, and so on
also the fact that the united states of burgers neighbour tacostan
portugal and french saves themselves with meme pronounciation
by italy you already have the -i/-e plural masterrace

I hate all romance languages so I'll go with French, because it's the least romance of all

>>76934679
are you a leaf

>>76934679
rude

>>76934699
Nyet

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I want to know more about old Castillian. It kinda sounds a bit like Portuguese.

Romanian is best

>>76934835
I remember reading that old Castillian had 6 fricatives (compared to the 2-3 fricatives in modern spanish) so the letters Ç, Z, J, X, S (s worked like in current romance languages that becomes voiced between vowels, it would be written as SS in order to represent the unvoiced form when placed between vowels) all had different sounds back then, pretty interesting.

>>76935039
Are there any more poems in medieval Castillian? For now, I only know the "Cantar del Mio Cid" being one of them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EdySZJzAJs

>>76930712
>>76930608
I think Euro Pt sounds more Russian than Brazilian Pt does. I think it's mostly the shorter cadence and faster rhythm, but also the short r's and more closed vowels.

Maybe Anglos think Brazilian Pt sounds slavic, but I simply can't hear it, whereas I can hear it with Euro Pt.

>>76935252
Most poems in this side of Iberia in early medieval times were written in Galician/Portuguese (and in East Iberia Occitan), so maybe not as much.
"Castille, where the kings speak language of men, and Portugal, where men speak the language of kings".

I think I read somewhere that the Castilian kings were very humble and close to the people (probably only lasted until the hapsburgs and such), but I can't source it.

>>76935252
I have only been looking on it sparingly, old castillian text is quite hard to come by on the internet

can someone recommend good french textbooks for an intermediate/beginner? Preferably a textbook/ workbook where I can do exercises.

>>76935373
They were humble. The only thing they were thinking of is to end the Reconquista. If Spain never had Habsburgs or Bourbons and had more kings like Alfonso X, Spain would still rule the waves (and Portugal would've been left alone).

>>76935422
assimil should be good

For me, it's romanian

>>76935484
thank you kind sir.

>>76935468
Yeah, the Hapsburgs fucked us over.

We had the Burgundy first (reconquista and up until Aljubarrota) and the Assis next (Aljubarrota and Discoveries until the Hapsburg Iberian Union).

Both GOAT-tier in their own way, but the Hapsburgs really fucked everything up and we both lost the relevance to England/France.

Then Came the Braganças which started out alright, but their job was mainly to keep the Empire from failing, which was an unwinnable battle even if they weren't into spending money like it grew on trees.

Fuck the Austrian, man.

>>76935632
>Assis
fuck me, I mean Aviz

>>76935632
how exactly were they able to get a foothold on the Iberian peninsula?

>>76935668
Inheritance. Both Spain and Portugal were inherited (and defended) as opposed to conquered.

The whole "you can't marry peasants" would always end up in a plinko-style genealogic tree and only one family would end up with most houses in Europe. Hapsburgs were just lucky,

For example, the throne almost fell into the son of a Portuguese King and Spanish Queen, but he died when he was 2, so the Hapsburgs got it instead.

>>76935632
Not to mention, Habsburgs were inbred as fuck and didn't know what "inflation" meant.

>>76936391
>didn't know what "inflation" meant.
well Tbh no one did

>bantering about XIII century poets
Holy autism, Batman

>muh french
>muh italian
>muh spanish

Forget those, the best romance language is [spoiler]occitan[/spoiler]

>>76932751
La sudaca del último par de siglos es millones de veces mejor porque los autores sabían hacer más cosas que masturbarse con el siglo de oro y el ser de España. Quitando a gente como Bécquer, ninguno se interesó por la literatura extranjera. Un Borges hubiera sido imposible en España.

>>76935668
Isabel of castille and fernando of aragon had three daughters
the first one married the king of portugal but her husban died in a hunting accident and she went full grieving, she also married another portuguese king, which resulted in the expulsion of the jews
they had a child but died very young (Miguel da Paz) - he would have inherited all the peninsula (aparently she hated jews)
the second sister married an austrian gentlement with a large inheritance and a even larger chin
they had at least one child, which was to become the first habsburg of many more to come
the thrid also married a portuguese prince/king but is largely irrelevant to the case

a couple generation after portugal was without a throne (since the 20 years old king kamikasi'd in morroco) and habsburgs got the throne since england refused to help at all (spain was at its highest point)

>>76934835
Depends on what century
In 1492 rules were intoduced to change x to j, and z before "e" and "i" became "c". Also loads of words with v changed to b (cavalleria)
Also many words starting in "f" changed to silent h in spanish

Looking at galician or portuguese gives you a decent idea of what spanish used to look like
>non (no)
>dizer/fazer (decir/hacer)
>fermosa (hermosa)
>76931262
French has similar ambiguous vowel pronunciation rules to english
Its very pretty, but in the mouth of young frenchies it sounds awful

>>76938289
Also in 1492 you guys had a push to make the writing non-ambiguous and make it fully phonetic.

I don't know if you guys got the accent from there (which would be hard to do, to force an entire population to pronounce things just like written, given that they would largely be illiterate) or if you already had a fairly simple accent with a rather small phoneme number, which sounds weird, but may have been influenced by basque/arabic.

>>76926540
I don't know a single spanish poet

>>76930893
Do you even know what z is supposed to sound like or are you trolling

>>76938549
The most arabic phoneme is for J and "ge/gi", or as anglos call it, strong "H"
It is only assumed that v and b were different phonemes due to this changes.
The weather also affects the evolution of phonetic accents, just look at souther spain and canary island accent.

>>76938804
>The most arabic phoneme is for J and "ge/gi", or as anglos call it, strong "H"
Yeah, that's what I was referring to.
>The weather also affects the evolution of phonetic accents
Why would it?

>>76938559
>Rosalia de Castro
>Gustavo Adolfo Becker
>Alfonso Rodriguez Castelao

>>76938871
Never heard of them, to be honest.

Spanish Literature has always had more relevant prose than poetry, as opposed to us, where it's the other way around.

>>76938843
In the south of spain the weather clearly affected the accent
>skips "s" at the end of words to save saliva
>tranforms dental fricative (z) into "s"
>more "relaxed" pronunciation in general and shortens words and the expressions

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Spanish is an ugly language, particularly the dialects spoken in mexico / new world
Romanian is very interesting and sounds like a slavic-latin lovechild (including declensions!)
Italian is very beautiful and a natural language of opera with a "sing/song" type of register
Portuguese is the more interesting Iberian language although it has harsh sounds and is subjectively guttural
French is by far both the most useful romance language and the fastest growing romance language, it benefits from a wealth of literature and its former position as the lingua franca of the civilized world. French is objectively the best language to learn and speak for non romance speakers looking to learn a latin language.

Fun fact: Portuguese is the most spoken language in the Southern Hemisphere.

Sure, it's the shit hemisphere, but the northern one has all the Chinks.

>>76938601
Spanish has a separate phoneme for z, it's th. You may call it a lisp or hate it all what you want, but s and z don't sound the same.

>>76939750
>Spanish has a separate phoneme for z, it's th.
You see, that's exactly the reason why the Tuga asked if you knew what Z is supposed to sound like.
Portuguese also has the same phoneme (specially the Eu version) and yet there is a clear difference between that sound and an actual Z in portuguese.
They are similar, I give you that, but they're still different. Maybe you guys just never made this differentiation

>>76940154
What? The Z in Portuguese is the same as in English.

The S as well (read as a 'z' sometimes (prose) and as an s the other (simple).

We don't do that th thing at all unless it's a lisp.

>>76939420
>Chink northern hem
>Poortu Southern Hem

What a time to be alive.

>>76940226
>What? The Z in Portuguese is the same as in English.
The zed yes. I'm talking about the th sound.
>We don't do that th thing at all unless it's a lisp.
Maybe not your particular accent, but everyone is Lisbon had it. Every word that ended with a "s" was pronounced as a sh. That's from where your stereotypical sizzle comes from.

>>76940463
Ah, a "sh", sure.

Not a "th" like the guy was saying.

>>76940154
>"You see, your language got it all wrong this is how this letter is supposed to sound like t. my language"
Man...

>tfw slowly making progress in italian

>>76940554
I wasn't trying to say your language is wrong. But you have to agree it made sense for him to use his language as a parameter. Here they're different phonemes, hence the confusion.
Like a said before maybe they sound different in specific situations it'ss just that you lot never bothered to make the differentiation
If you have the resources, could you please vocaroo the word Zaragoza?

>>76938871
Yeah none of those match Pessoa

>>76926436
Speak latin noobs

>>76939750
Are you fucking stupid or what. That's not what z is supposed to sound like an any language. And it didn't sound like that in old Castilian either. You just kept using the same symbol for a completely different sound no one else does.

>>76940154
Eu. Pt. doesn't have the "th" sound. Most people I know can't even pronounce the English word "three" without sounding like they're either saying "tree", "dree" or "sree".

>>76940554
>t. my language
Are you stupid? Every single language that uses the latin alphabet doesn't use the letter "z" for your dumb sound

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>>76940951

>are you stupid? Every single language that uses the latin alphabet doesn't use the letter "z" for your dumb sound

He isn't stupid but you are fucking stupid, evidently. Case in point - the papal guard AKA the zouaves

>>76941018
Are you fucking stupid? Do you even know how to pronounce that you dumb chicano. It's the clearest "z" sound example there is. Spanish would say "thouaves", everybody else says "zouaves".

>>76940880
So what. The point is about z and s being different and they are. Portuguese has a shitload of weird shit too, and so does French.

>>76940754
http://vocaroo.com/i/s01azHfJ1EGS

>>76941198
No, the point is that Spanish has no "z" sound.

>>76941248
Spanish doesn't have the sound that z makes in Portuguese and English. Spanish has a z sound that is different from s, x and sh. Therefore Spanish has a Z sound.

>>76941325
No, Spanish has a different sound that was never updated in writing, so you kept writing with a "z". Case in point, in Latin America they use the correct "z" sound.

>>76941325
It's not just Portuguese and English btw. It's all Romance languages including Latin, plus a bunch of other languages as well.

Moromeții is a really good book if you care to read it, especially in romanian.

>>76941410
Latin America uses a predorsal s for both s and z, as opposed to Spain using apicoalveolar for s and th for z. The z sound you're talking about used to be written with a cedilla and evolved into th in Spain minus Andalusia. And dissapeared from Andalusia and Latin America completely.

>>76941527
You're right, they say "sebra". You should've kept the ç.

>>76929578
what do you mean? the only portuguese nobel prize of literature is josé saramago, and the final argument which makes our language the best:
- according to Bokkluben world library the best book ever written is don quixote.

moreover, the Nobel prize Academy has been unfair with Spanish literature, we have 11 nobel prizes but borges, garcía Lorca, juan rulfo, valle inclán, rubén darío never won one, and I could name at least 7-ten more writers that truly deserved to be awarded.

>>76944370
Most of those lived before there even were such things as Nobel prizes.

Also, a fair amount of them are basically untranslatable because they use a lot of intimate relations between language and writing, so they'd never really be understood outside the lusophone community.

Finally, since we're talking about Cervantes, he once said of the Portuguese language to be "dulce y agradable", and he was a bit of a Camões fanboy himself, being his contemporary.

But you can't translate the Lusíads, as you'd miss all the rhymes, all the synesthetic words, all the Portuguese history and obscura nods and all that.

I'll agree on Spain's larger contributions to art, but writing (incl. songwriting) is a Portuguese's game.

>>76931874
intention est prononcé /ɛ̃tɑ̃sjɔ̃/, la voyelle ɛ̃ sonne d'une fa¢on similaire à la lettre A, mais nasale. On ouvert la bouche pour créer le son. C'est por ¢a que j'ai écrit AtAnsion, mais tu as raison concernant les syllabes où on doit mettre des accents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV-auFSTrMY

File: I+thought+it+s+a+reference+to+a+joke+about+a+_c92478949649c214468a91c6a809a2cc.jpg (67KB, 604x486px) Image search: [Google]

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>>76926899
E aí, meu mano vlad.

>le french spelling is hard
when will this meme end you fucking brainlet shits

>>76945065
You should probably write thing as you say it.

>>76944713
translating poetry is impossible, rhymes, verses and the ulterior relations among the words would be lost, no matter if the languages involved are similar. Writing is not a portuguese game, since we have great poets, novelist, tales writer,..etc, of all generations. The songwriting is also the cornerstone of spanish literature, since our earliest books are epic poems (the song of my cid and the life of lazarillo de tormes)

>>76945146
Say an exemple where we dont

>>76945197
>The songwriting is also the cornerstone of spanish literature, since our earliest books are epic poems
Castilian Poets literally wrote in Portuguese/Galician.

>>76926436
Romanian flag is missing

>>76945065
it's not impossible, but it is not simple either. You are a french native speaker, why are foreigners wrong about something that they have to struggle on?

>>76945224
That's simply not true, anon.

>>76945322
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galician-language_literature
>In the Middle Ages, Galego-português (Galician-Portuguese) was a language of culture, poetry (troubadours) and religion throughout not only Galicia and Portugal but also Castile.

>>76945366
>no source
Anon pls.

If you want to start a wiki war that's fine, but this hardly means anything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Spanish_language
>The prestige of Castile and its language was propagated partly by the exploits of Castilian heroes in the battles of the Reconquista—among them Fernán González and Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar (El Cid)—and by the narrative poems about them that were recited in Castilian even outside the original territory of that dialect.

>>76945224
>portuguese/galician
>the poems are written in spanish
>castilians writers

>>76945202
S'il vous plait. No S read in vous. No T read in plait.
Qu'est-ce que c'est. The "-ce" isn't read. "Est" is read as "eh" instead of "este" like it originally was.

To me, these would be read like "Seel voos pluh-eet" and "Kehst-se que sest".

>>76945320
There are rules of pronunciation and spelling. You just have to follow them and you'll be fine, I don't see what's so hard that every other person needs to mention how fucked up french spelling is. Every language has it's set of rules. How about english for starters? How about gaelic? How about russian?

>>76945559
Not that anon but some poets did use Galician-Portuguese, others didn't. There's a story for both languages.

>>76945639
French has more rules, you wouldn't know because you probably only speak two languages anyway.

>>76945626
No ones cares how you would read it. It's not pronounced like that.
Also the "-ce" in "Qu'est-ce ...." is read. "Kehs que ceh".

>>76945692
It has more rules and ...?

A tomar por culo, sudacas tiraflechas, panchitos hijos de la grandísima puta. Defeco en todos y cada uno de vosotros, desde el sudaca nacido en Alaska del coño de una sudaca sucia hasta el último puto indio perdido en lo más hondo de la Patagonia.

>>76945626
>"-ce" isn't read
But it is. It's the "s" sound in kəSkəsé. The "st" in the first "est" is what is actually silent.

>instead of "este" like it originally was.
I'm pretty sure it was "est" back in Latin as well. Spanish lost the "t" too, and Portuguese lost the "st" just like in French. The Iberian languages just updated the spelling.

>>76945658
That's a more nuanced statement than the one originally made, and one I'm willing to accept without evidence because it's quite possible.

>>76926436
Poor Romania, always forgotten about

>>76945806 el versiculo mas xenofobico de la biblia jakakaj

>>76945806

Pido disculpas por esto, he dejado el móvil encendido un momento encima de la mesa del cibercafé y al volver me he encontrado con eso, pero no he sido yo.

>>76945911
>shitposting on 4chan as anonymous using someone else's device.
For what purpose.

>>76945626
You pronounce the s if the next word starts with a wovel, it hints at what consonnant to say, for example "vous autres" is said "voozot", "vous là bas" is said "voolaba", notice how the z sound dispears

Same thing for plait: "plait-il" -> "platil", the t is pronounced, because in some context when a consonant follow you don't prononce a letter doesn't mean you have to ditch it completely

>Qu'est-ce que c'est. The "-ce" isn't read. "Est" is read as "eh" instead of "este" like it originally was.

It is read, it is mixed with est whose t is silent bacause the next word starts with a consonant

>>76945776
If it has more rules, it's more stuff to memorize, thus harder for non-native speakers and thus they will say French spelling is hard. I don't understand how this is so hard to follow.

>no one cares it's not pronounced like that
Because of your amount of rules. Most languages write thing exactly like they say it. You only write it like that because you haven't updated your writing compared to the way you say things. Because French used to be said like that.

>>76945820
The dude posted a link to a wikipedia page showing how that's true. It's well known. I don't know how this is so far fetched.

>>76945820
>The Iberian languages just updated the spelling.
So did Italian and other Romance languages. Pretty much all except French did that.

>>76945974
Just know that most languages don't have these rules. They write thing mostly the way they are said.

>>76926617
Numbers in French are pretty lame.
98 is spelt 4 * 20 + 10 + 8
Quatre-vingt-dix-huit.

>>76946123
They say it right in Switzerland tho.

>>76945984
Hey look buddy, if it's too hard for you don't learn it and stop busting our balls with how complicated it is. Simple as that.
Every language has difficult stuff about it and complaining isn't gonna help it.

>>76945639
I know that, but let's compare spanish, french and english.
1- there's only one way to accent words in spanish á, é, í, ó, ú. and the words can only be accented once. While there's a lot more in french é, è. ê î, ï,ü ú and the words can be accented in every syllable (répété) or twice (empêché) and so on. English has no accents.
2- pronouns, genres are a bit confusing in pronunciation. Ils or il, both are pronounce the same way, "il singulier ou ils pluriel?" I read once in a french book. In english this dicothomy is less common.
when pronominal verbs are used, it might be cofunsing too.
ils se sont pendus
elles se sont pendues
now imagine the word ends with é, par example, empêché, empechés, empechée, empêchés. In English and spanish we don't have to handle this situations.
3- And you shouldn't mention russians, since this thread is about romance languages

>>76946176
Stay classy, France.

>>76946161
Switzerland is a strange place man.
But not in a bad way.

Spanish has the best z sound.

>>76946022
The statement in wikipedia didn't have a source, making it next to worthless as proof of anything.

And I'm precisely saying that it's not far-fetched as long as the statement isn't implying that poets in Castile at the time _only_ wrote in Galician-Portuguese (and using that itself as proof that Galician-Portuguese is in essence better for poetry), which is what the other anon was getting to as far as I could see.

>>76946065
>Pretty much all except French did that.
The thing is that French actually does use a lot of the silent endings when in between vowels, so it'd be very hard to reform the spelling to include that little quirk.

>>76946251
Kill yourself.

>>76946238
English isn't a great example on how to write down pronunciation.

Portuguese spelling is also not unambiguous, since we have a bunch of homophones, but most of it has a ton of rules.

I think only Spanish and Italian are.

>>76946290
Thanks for your contribution

>>76946268
Well but that did happen. Whether or not one language is better than the other I don't know but Galician was much more used to poetry than Castillian. There's no real point for competition here since people didn't even give different names to the languages.

>>76946251
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m84rggPrpgc

Andaluz zeta <3

>>76946321
English is still miles better than French. So is German.

>>76946268
Well then go back to saying things right. Or just remove written plural from the language.

>>76946384
>through tough thorough thought though
>hiccough

I dunno. French rules are weird and different from the other romance languages, but English is a case-by-case thing with no unified spelling system at all. At least French is internally consistent.

>>76926436
>no Romania

>>76946321
i know that, but english pronunciation is simpler than french one, that's my remark, so is spelling.
>>76946384
>English is still miles better than French. So is German.
this comment relies on liking, how can you objectively support this statement? there's no way. Me, for instance, I prefer french than English and German, even though I like them all

>>76946348
If your point is that people in the Iberian peninsula could have written in languages from other regions, I won't dispute that despite your lack of evidence because that wouldn't be at all surprising.

If your point is that Castilians used Galician for poetry en masse because that language is in some unspecified way just better for poetry, you need to present proof for that claim, because that's several orders of magnitude more improbable.

>>76946384
>written plural
What would this accomplish? French ha much more "pronunciation anomalies" than the discrepancies between written plural and spoken plural, and sometimes spoken plural does behave in ways that would seem weird but the spelling can predict.

>>76946452
>through
>thorough
>thought
All of these are very similar. The only ones remaining are "tough" which should totally be fixed to "tuff", and "though" which everybody just writes "tho" these days and will 100% change inevitably to that.

>>76946617
>but english pronunciation is simpler than french one
Are you on drugs, m8? Pretty much every word in English is an exception to the non-existent rules.

>>76946321
>Portuguese spelling is also not unambiguous
I cry every time I reach a word with the letter "x" in Portuguese.

>>76946719
>I cry every time I reach a word with the letter "x" in Portuguese.
Why's that? In Spanish you read the x like a "sh" sound as well.

>>76946719
>I cry every time I reach a word with the letter "x" in Portuguese.

Kek. We don't have that many, though, and most weird pronunciations are on well-known constructions. Like if a word starts by "ex" you always know it's "eish", for example. Except "exemplo", kek.

>>76946770
>exemplo
>excepção
>haxixe
We have 4 or 5 ways of pronouncing it.

>>76946770
>êxodo
>xavier
>exceção
>expert (?)

"X" have plenty of sounds in Portuguese I guess.

>>76946803
>>excepção
>>haxixe
Those are read the exact same way, dude. "Exemplo" is the only exception and one that I will agree should change.

>>76946247
Cheers, I will and I won't tell you to reform your language because it's too hard for me to learn thank you very much.

>>76946238
1- I'll give you the accents, some of them barely make sense. But we're pretty conservative about our grammar and spelling, couldn't say if it's a good thing or not.

2- Again, pronunciation rules. I think it's pretty nice to have when it's written. I think the visuals are cool too, if that makes sense. The spelling is visually pleasing, same thing with gaelic for exemple.

3- It was just an exemple of languages with "funky" pronunciation although it is pretty marginal in Russian.

>>76930668
Yea, because English is SO MANLY AND BADASS

>>76930722
Because the eternal frank was a romanboo

(gauls being cucked into speaking gallo-roman didn't help)

>>76946870
We already did that, thanks for trying.

>>76946907
Good for fucking you.

>>76946832
>expert
Não usamos disso aqui, e acho que vocês só usam por estrangeirismo.

>>76946867
Não, to em "excepção" alteras o som do primeiro "e" para "eix", e em haxixe não mudas nada. Isto quando não dizes "shceção"

"Proximidade" também muda para um "c" em vez de um "z", e "paradoxo" usa um "ks"

>>76946931
Why you so mad tho?

>>76946958
Gotta let the steam off after a hard day of pronouncing my shitty language.

>>76946719
for me english pronunciation is simpler, i don't know if other people find it hard.
>>76946870
honestly, i've been looking for grammar rules, but sometimes I get confused. I have learnt that "dé" , "pé", "pré" are always stressed, and è is always in the midst of the word. i know that ï, ü has the same function than they have in spanish.

>>76946950
Eu leio "esh-ceção" e aquele primeiro "e" é fechado. Portanto leio o "x" como "sh".
E também leio de igual modo em haxixe. "Hashishe".
E leio "procsimidade", se bem que tens razão que aí é lido de modo diferente de qualquer dos modos. Dizer "prossimidade" é simplesmente igual ao que eu digo só que o "q" é cortado.

Em espanhol eles também têm a possibilidade de ler a letra "x" com os sons "sh" ou "cs", tal como nós. Nós simplesmente temos o "êxodo/exemplo" que eles não têm.

>>76947135
Mas não dizes "proksimo", suponho.

Sim, às vezes cortamos os "ex" nos início, mas é por atalho, não por regra.

O nosso X é pau para toda a obra, honestamente.

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>>76926436
LINGVA LATINA OPTIMVS EST
BARBARCVLI PARVI LINGVAE ALTERAE LOCVTI SVNT
HANC LINGVAM DICE VT VIRI SUPERIORES SIM

>>76947280
* DICETE ... SITIS

>>76947224
Sim, digo "próssimo", tens razão.

Basicamente a língua portuguesa tem dois "x":
- um que vem do facto de se ler o "x" como "sh" que é exclusivo das línguas ibéricas (também o fazem em espanhol e catalão), e
- outro que vem do facto de o "x" ser "cs" originalmente em latim e que nalguns casos o "q" caiu e outros ainda onde o "s" se converteu num "z".

A regra seria essa. Infelizmente para quem é estrangeiro tem de aprender as exceções e exemplos particulares à regra.

>>76946770
>Why's that? In Spanish you read the x like a "sh" sound as well.
Not at all. We technically have three (though really only two) ways of pronouncing "x":

-"ks" like in Taxi.
-"s" like in Xilófono, but that's just a natural result of the difficulty of pronouncing "ks" at the beginning of a word (doesn't stop people from trying, though, and in the end the sounds are interchangeable in this context).
-"x" (spanish "j") like in México, which is reserved only for proper names of places or people that never really got an spelling update.

>>76947132
>for me english pronunciation is simpler
Because you've had much more exposure to it, so it's become second nature by now.

>>76947394
Não é uma letra particularmente comum para ser um problema, acho eu.

>>76932262
sounds like piedmontese, cool

>>76947415
>"ks" like in Taxi.
Yes we have that too.
>"s" like in Xilófono, but that's just a natural result of the difficulty of pronouncing "ks" at the beginning of a word
We have that too, like with "proximidade/próximo" or "exemplo".
>-"x" (spanish "j") like in México, which is reserved only for proper names of places or people that never really got an spelling update.
I thought this had a much more wider use. We have that as the standard version when people think of the letter.

>>76932262
I love it. The lost cousin between Spanish and French

>>76947394
Sh doesn't exist in Castillian. Well Chileans and some Andalusians pronounce ch like that but it isn't a thing in most dialects. X is just ks.

>>76947630
If only Occitans weren't such...cucks.

>>76947630
Yeah, it's the french counterpart to Catalan.

Which is weird, because both have the mute vowels and "sh" sounds of Portuguese.

How the fuck did Spanish and Italian sound so similar and Portuguese/Catalan/Occitan as well if the countries all alternate with each other?

>>76947652
I thought you said "México" like us. From "Mexica" the tribe.

>>76947737
Mexico is just Mejico and we even write it that way, the x spelling is a latino thing.

>>76932262
do you have the lyrics? I can't find it

>>76947737
Provavelmente varia com o sotaque, mas pelo menos alguns deles usam o J arranhado, quase que soa a "Mérrico"

>>76947786
We just call it "Meshico".

>>76947786
Well we write it like that because "x" is read like that. I was always taught the same thing happened in Spanish and Catalan only.

>>76947585
>like with "proximidade/próximo" or "exemplo".
That's the thing. In Spanish, those two words would always be "proksimidade" and "eksemplo" if they were spelled like that. The "s" sound for 'x' can only exist when "ks" is difficult to pronounce (so, after a pause). That's why I hesitate to count it as a different possible sound.

>We have that as the standard version when people think of the letter.
It's not pronounced the same, though. The Portuguese pronunciation is admittedly closer to the original ("méshico", from "meshíka") while the Spanish version is close to English "h" or the "ch" in "Loch Ness" depending on the region. And it's really only used with old names like "Don Quixote", "Ximena" or toponyms like "Oaxaca".

>>76947885
>The "s" sound for 'x' can only exist when "ks" is difficult to pronounce
Well yeah it's the exact same case with us in those words. Except it's not because it's after a pause but because it's between vowels.
>The Portuguese pronunciation is admittedly closer to the original ("méshico", from "meshíka")
Uh that's cool. So we remained more conservative in that pronunciation. Didn't know. Why did the Spanish pronunciation change?

>>76932262
i found it, it's more like a french-italian thing

>>76947652
>Chileans
I don't think they do. Rioplatense Spanish uses "sh" for "y" and "ll" sounds, but Chileans are another thing entirely and I don't quite remember them using this particular sound.

>Occitan didn't become the official language of France
>Catalan didn't become the official language of Spain
>Piedmontese didn't become the official language of Italy
>Romance countries will never have a 99% of language similarity
Sad...

>>76947885
It was bothering me that the information was spread out across 2 or 3 posts. We have 5 ways of spelling it:
"sh" - Haxixe
"ks" - Paradoxo
"ss" - Próximo
"z" - Exemplo
"eish" - Ex-namorada, Excitado, Expulso (these are often shortened to just the "sh" or "esh", unless it's separated with the hífen". We can say "Excelente" as "aysh-celent" or "shlent"

>>76948027
That last example is just a variation of the "sh" sound depending on some accents.

>>76948057
Mais ou menos. Tu nunca dizeste "Eiscumalha", mas dizes "Eis-Namorada".

Mas sim, é um edge-case.

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>>76948010
>Frankish didn't become the official language of France
>instead, we're stuck with this language lots of people make fun of

>>76948120
>dizeste
dizes*/disseste

Hoje ando a escrever como um conas.

>>76948120
Escreve-se "escumalha", tho.

>>76948168
Are you kidding me? Every body calls it "the most romantic" language while we get ignored every single time.

>>76948214
Sim, mas se se escrevesse "excumalha" lerias "eiscomalha". Estou a tentar mostrar-te que o X modifica a vogal antes e como o S não modifica.

>>76948261
Ah, sim claro. Entendi.

>>76948329
Já agora, repara que tanto o x como o s antes de uma consoante (para fazer o som "sh") ou no final das palavras para fazer os plurais, é mais curto que o "ch" que nós usamos em "achar".

Por isso é que a estrangeirada carrega sempre nos "sh" no plural, porque não ouvem que é ligeiramente diferente, e nós fazêmo-lo sem nos apercebermos.

Tal como o "a" em gato e em "sal" é dito em partes diferentes da boca. Nós temos uma data de peculiaridades que fazemos automaticamente sem nos apercebemos.

this is furlan (friulan language)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob7zMIvYVlM

Se tu vens ca su ta' cretis,
là che lôr mi àn soterât,
al è un splaz plen di stelutis:
dal gno sanc 'l è stât bagnât.

Par segnâl une crosute
je sculpide lì tal cret:
fra chês stelis nas l'arbute,
sot di lôr jo duâr cuièt.

Cjol sù, cjol une stelute:
je a ricuart dal nestri ben,
tu i darâs 'ne bussadute,
e po platile tal sen.

Cuant che a cjase tu sês sole
e di cûr tu preis par me,
il gno spirt atôr ti svole:
jo e la stele o sin cun te.

>>76948421
Porque esse som na verdade é mais próximo de um "j" carregado do que um "sh" como em inglês. É um tipo de "s" muito semelhante ao que os espanhóis usam.

>>76948120
No Brasil todo, com exceção do Rio, pronunciamos "Êz-namorada", excitado (ss) e expulso (s).
Varia bastante mesmo.

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>>76947994
I doubt anyone knows about the why, but the how is quite interesting.

As far as I can see, Spanish has traditionally played quite loosely with consonants. Even the Romans poked fun at this, apparently.

http://en.antiquitatem.com/felices-hispani-quibus-vivere-est-bibere

>>76947509
That's what piedmontese is/was: an heavy lombardized oc dialect

>>76948584
Pois. O X é a wildcard do Português.

>>76947664
Here there is an heavy revival of occitan

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>>76948260
yea, some people also say it sounds 'gay', 'feminine' and 'stupid'

>>76948706
For me it's because you always accent the last syllable. Makes it sound super catty and camp.

>>76948634
>Beati hispani quibus vivere est bibere.
That's hilarious. Lmfao even back in the day Spaniards did this

>>76948706
It's because you have that weird vowel accent. The nasalization is ok but the "ü" and "ï" kill it a bit.

>>76948702
Good to know. Hope you won't fuck up.

>>76948773
Apparently, it has more to do with our 'accent', (we've a very monotonous accent), guttural R and nasal sounds.

>>76930668
english is a latin language as well m8

>>76948834
No, we also have a monotonous accent, guttural R and nasal sounds and sound drunk rather than gay.

It's that in combination with the last syllable thing.

>>76948168
hahaha haha hahaha so you'd rather speak frankish than french?
mais le fran¢ais est une langue coquine. j'ai litteralement enfiler des meufs parce qu'elle ont appris que j'ai parle fran¢ais.

>>76948884
Je m'en contrebranle des filles (et je ne suis pas un pédé)

>>76940869
All indo-european languages were influenced by vulgar latin

French is clearly the superior one though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKdn4tV4kzc

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>>76949108
>tfw you don't 'hon hon hon' when you laugh

>>76949108
>>76949198
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VnjqSZ7mBQ

>>76949198
I wish I knew french though, I love it. I just need a good reason to learn it, more than my love for it. Maybe a job, or money.

>>76947280
You can't stop history.

It's still pretty amazing than the vulgar latin survived the end of the empire.

>>76949381
>It's still pretty amazing than the vulgar latin survived the end of the empire.
What else would people speak?

>>76949407
Germ*nic languages

>>76949407
The local languages. Celtic dialects were the language of the people in many places and so were german dialects.

>>76949407
Well, Arabic is the main language in /mena/.

>>76949461
I thought the majority of people were already speaking Latin by then.

>>76949491
probably because the arabs actually conquered and estabilished a regime over those regions

you know, kinda like romans who made preroman iberian and gaulish language extinct

>>76949198
Are you even French

>>76949513
Few were speaking latin when the empire fall in the region equivalent to modern France.

>>76949355
A bit rude, tb h

>>76949738
How do we know this? I always heard the reason why French began to be written was because the Latin people were speaking was already evolving and to different.

>>76949730
Sometimes, I unironically feel like I'm closer to the eternal anglo or to the celts

>>76949880
I feel closer to the french than the anglo

>>76949971
Scot?

>>76949781
It's just a 2 languages system a bit like what you find now in africa. The elite speak some kinda of latin dialect while the people speak something else.
Eventually one influence the other but it takes some time.

>>76937118
>occitan
now thats something you dont hear about often
did france's "france is speak french" ideals fuck over the language as hard as it did with breton?

>>76950365
Oh I see. Thanks for explaining.

>>76949491
>>76949663
the thing that really accelerates my particle about MeNa is that there were romance languages forming there before the arab invasion
at least punic could have survived but no

so much lost...

>>76940817
Luis de Góngora blows Pessoa out of the water (and almost any contender, really). Quevedo was also a genius but less disciplined. Lope de Vega was also wonderful but I always think of him as a playwright first and foremost, and if you're looking for mystics Luis de León, sor Inés de la Cruz, Teresa de Jesús and Juan de la Cruz are unmatched.

But anyways, surprising you chose Pessoa as he's a nice silver-age poet but far from the best Portuguese lit has to offer.

>>76926617
>le Spanish is easy maymay
Cruzados hacen cruzados,
Escudos pintan escudos,
Y tahúres muy desnudos
Con dados ganan condados;
Ducados dejan ducados,
Y coronas majestad,
¡Verdad!

I really dont know which one to learn. I studied spamish italian and french in school. I must just learn catalan for the memes

>>76950030
Rule the waves anglo

>>76951538
noice

>>76948007
Some people here use that sound, specially in rural zones in the south

I'm not sure how to continue with languages. I've fallen in love with Romance languages but they're all so similar that they get jumbled.

>Portuguese
I have a lot of tuga friends and I've been to Portugal twice. I've also been learning this on and off for about 3 years now and I'm probably at a B1 or B2 level. There's probably the highest potential for me to become fluent in it.

>Spanish
Dabbled with this on my own, I also have a friend from Barcelona who helps me a bit with it. Plus with all the hispanics in the US I could have a lot of opportunities to practice IRL. Honestly though, my MO is "think in Portuguese and tweak it until it becomes Spanish." It mostly works but the tenses are different.

>Catalan
Yes, I know, a bit of a meme langauge but I like how it sounds. Natives are really excited when I speak it but it feels like a wasted effort because it's so regional. At best, it's just a party trick outside of the "països catalans." My friend from Barcelona helps me with it but she's more of a spanish speaker than a catalan.

>French
I just took this to fill in time at my community college but I overall like it. However I don't know a single native speaker.

I'm thinking I'll cut it down to one or two. Definitely keeping Portuguese, at least. Any thoughts?

>>76950748
He's world-wide known. He's also not as bad as you're placing him. He did a bunch of cool under the radar stuff that's very close to us Portuguese.

>>76951737
Spanish.

>>76951863
I know, he's in the same tier as García Lorca. Normies and foreigners like them but they're far from our best.

>>76946452
>hiccough
It isn't spelled like that. It's hiccup.

>>76941410
>>76946290
stop, you're too autistic and may harm yourself
>butthurtgal
>>76951737
what parts in portugal did you visit? i live close to the northern frontier (Minho river)

Are there any times when I actually use gerunds in Portuguese? I've only seen them in song lyrics and poetry and I've only heard any of my friends use them once. I haven't even bothered to learn them for most verbs, so far.

Here's a list of homophones in French that make English orthography seem logical.
These are all pronounced the same but spelled differently.

un ver - worm
un verre - glass
vers (preposition) - toward
un vers - verse
vert - green

voie - first and third person singular subjunctive of voir (to see)
la voie - way, route
voient - third person plural indicative and subjunctive of voir
voies - second person singular subjunctive of voir
vois - first and second person singular indicative of voir
voit - third person singular indicative of voir
la voix - voice

vain - empty, superficial
le vin - wine
vingt - twenty
vins - first and second person passé simple of venir (to come)
vint - third person singular passé simple of venir

>>76952038
In Portugal it's very rare.
In Brasil they use it all the time.

>>76952010
Galician? Why are you in Ireland?

My favorite poem by Góngora is a sonnet dedicated to El Greco.


Esta en forma elegante, ¡oh peregrino!,
de pórfido luciente dura llave,
el pincel niega al mundo más suave
que dio espíritu a leño, vida a lino.

Su nombre, aun de mayor aliento dino
que en los clarines de la Fama cabe,
el campo ilustra de este mármol grave,
venéralo y prosigue tu camino.

Yace el griego, heredó Naturaleza
arte y el Arte estudio, Iris colores,
Febo luces, si no sombras Morfeo.

Tanta urna, a pesar de su dureza,
lágrimas beba, y cuantos suda olores
corteza funeral de árbol sabeo.

>Dat syntax

>>76946950
>Não usamos disso aqui, e acho que vocês só usam por estrangeirismo
A maioria das pessoas não sabe mas a palavra em português é experto

>>76952010
In my first trip, just Lisbon and Caldas da Rainha. On my second one, Porto, Caldas, and Lisbon.

But on day trips I've been to Sintra, Peniche, Óbidos, Matosinhos, Nazaré, São Martinho do Porto, Foz do Arelho, and some other places I might be forgetting. Next time I'd like to explore more of the north and get into the Alentejo.

>>76952053
mon dieu...
>>76952099
visiting for a month, lovely place! and you dont have to go through the hassle of changing currency like in UK.

>>76952099
>In Portugal it's very rare.
>In Brasil they use it all the time.
Right, I'm learning the European dialect. I think the only time I've heard any of my tuga friends use a gerund was when a friend couldn't remember the word "rolling" in English so she said "rebolando."

>Galician? Why are you in Ireland?
Aren't galegos big on WE WUZ CELTIC N SHIT?

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>>76952053
sang
cent
sent
sens
sans
s'en
c'en

mais
mai
mes
met
mets

vie
vit
vis
vient
vît

>>76952179
Where in Ireland? My sister spend a semester in Cork. I also met a woman from Cork on the beach in Foz do Arelho a few weeks ago.

>>76952153
I remember you. You're that guy who probably knows someone from my family.

>>76952236
Has anyone ever tried to calculate how many millions of Euros do you waste in printing characters that are not read aloud?

No seriously, I can actually see the importance of keeping French orthography etymological rather than phonetic. The amount of homophones can definitely make it hard to get the meaning of a word in printed media.

>>76952006
>new worlder telling me how to spell

>>76952148
E lê-se "eksperto" ou "esperto"?

>>76952208
We use gerund in compound constructions:
"I'll be going" -> "Eu vou andando"
But we mostly stick to the infinitive instead.

>>76952053
What's the point of conjugating if they sound the same? Are pronouns mandatory in French?

>>76952366
Yes, just like in English. It's not a pro-drop language.

>>76952309
Your family is from Alcobaça but you live in Lisbon, right?

My friends are mostly from the Óbidos municipality. One lives really close to the castle, just outside the walls. Others live in Casal da Avaerla and Trás do Outeiro. One lived in Gaeiras until several months ago when her parents divorced.

>>76952344
>Old worlder thinks he's fluent in English

>>76952398
Hmm, I assume that it was a pro drop language at some point though, correct?

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>>76952153
the places i know are Tui, Lisboa and Porto
all portuguese cities look so much like Galician cities, really similar style overall all around the western iberian coast. Lisboa and Porto are super comfy too.
>>76952208
>we wuz celt
isnt as big as you might think but theres some celtic recreations and stuff, and a football team literally called "Celta de Vigo" (celt of Vigo)
and ofc theres shitload of bronze age celtic remains and Castros (walled villages)
>>76952252
Dublin, visited phoenix park on bike today, where i saw the embassy of USA (pic)

>>76952344
"eksperto"

>>76952492
Yes. Some linguists claim that, in Old French (~900s), verbal endings were still recognizable so the use of subject pronouns was optional (meaning that it was pro-drop).

>>76952483
Yes! Incredibly how we remember each other.

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>>76952570
>>76952570
>all portuguese cities look so much like Galician cities
All of my experience in Spain has been in Catalonia. Definitely quite different from Portugal. I'd like to go to Galicia some day, though.

>Lisboa and Porto are super comfy too.
I love them both but I prefer Porto. A bit quieter, the climate's better, and the people are friendlier. A good city to get heartbroken in too.

>isnt as big as you might think but theres some celtic recreations and stuff
Obviously all of Iberia has some celtic heritage, but it seems that galicia is the only place which celebrates it.

>>76952678
There are a few other Portuguese people who I remember from this board, like this guy from Coimbra who I chatted with a lot last year.

The Oeste is pretty cozy and is sort of a microcosm for the rest of Portugal. Nazaré felt like a slice of the Algarve.

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all romantic languages are beautiful

En el camino de los perros mi alma encontró
a mi corazón. Destrozado, pero vivo,
sucio, mal vestido y lleno de amor.
En el camino de los perros, allí donde no quiere ir nadie.
Un camino que sólo recorren los poetas
cuando ya no les queda nada por hacer.
¡Pero yo tenía tantas cosas que hacer todavía!
Y sin embargo allí estaba: haciéndome matar
por las hormigas rojas y también
por las hormigas negras, recorriendo las aldeas
vacías: el espanto que se elevaba
hasta tocar las estrellas.
Un chileno educado en México lo puede soportar todo,
pensaba, pero no era verdad.
Por las noches mi corazón lloraba. El río del ser, decían
unos labios afiebrados que luego descubrí eran los míos,
el río del ser, el río del ser, el éxtasis
que se pliega en la ribera de estas aldeas abandonadas.
Sumulistas y teólogos, adivinadores
y salteadores de caminos emergieron
como realidades acuáticas en medio de una realidad metálica.
Sólo la fiebre y la poesía provocan visiones.
Sólo el amor y la memoria.
No estos caminos ni estas llanuras.
No estos laberintos.
Hasta que por fin mi alma encontró a mi corazón.
Estaba enfermo, es cierto, pero estaba vivo.

>>76927741
Spanish actually does have an English /z/ sound, or at least, it depends on the dialect. I know that Castilian does have this. Whenever an s is before a voiced consonant (L, N, M, etc) it sounds like a z. For example, isla ends up sounding like izla and mismo ends up sounding like mizmo. It's a meme pronunciation, yes, but at least it exists

Just hijacking this thread, please rate my Spanish pronunciation. I read >>76952899

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1yasDX39ARu

>>76952872
Nazaré, is was once told by some expert doctor I met, is the most unique region of Portugal.

>>76952872
>Obviously all of Iberia has some celtic heritage
not quite... in the south its Tartessian heritage, and in the eastern part its "Iberian" tribes; they supposedly said "iber" a lot, thats why the greeks gave them that name, and called the whole peninsula "Iberia". Iberian tribes were different from celts, possibly related to basques
>>76953097
can tell you're not native but very decent for an anglo

>>76926436
What about Catalan?

>>76953111
>is was
I was**

>>76953519
I never heard that before! I always thought it was related to the name of the river Ebros.

>>76953540
it is a meme language

>>76953111
Nazaré has the largest waves in the world, for one, thanks to a very unique underwater geological formation.

>>76953097
bastante bueno, pero te hace falta fluidez.
>>76955241
what do you mean? nobody wants to speak catalán

hey, guys. Do you think we should make this thread often?

>>76956045
We do but for some reason stupid people exclude countries that were once colonies. But I'm all up for it