Do you like President Macron? I do

>>76691440
I, too, like president Macron

[spoiler]even though he's wrong in this instance[/spoiler]

>>76691487
>even though he's wrong in this instance
why do you think that, friend?
if a country doesn't honour its agreement, some measures must be taken

>>76691487
I thought you were more based than that Czechia...

>>76691614
hitler would be proud

>>76691614
It is true that when someone breaks the law, corrective action must be taken.
In that respect - and in the case of refusing to accept refugees from the one-time agreement in, what was it, 2015? - EU is perfectly justified in following the appropriate procedure, be it against Poland, Czechia or Hungary.

It is however wrong to capitalize politically on resentment against a member nation, or purposefully feed it.
When you - or Macron - do this, they are literally stooping down to level of populist polish (or czech, in this respect) government that make retarded statements for local public and to detriment of common benefit.

Does Germany not realise that France has opposite aims inside the EU?

>>76691937
Ok, what do you suggest?
If certain countries within Union, who benefit greatly from the single market and the developmend funds, refuse to help and to respect the agreements, what is the rest of the countries supposed to do?

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>>76691440
No, although this the right move. Fug Poland desu.

>>76691440
he needs to leave greatest ally alone

>>76692014
They should follow the procedures whilst abstaining from cheap slogans and insulting generalisations that will alienate the people of europe and justify nationalists and populists.

Mind that this goes for everyone. Germany should not be allowed to get away with violating antimonopoly regulations either.

>>76692062
I bet you're that bong living here, kys

>>76692156
and state subsidisation of industry*

Alright that's it. I am hereby dissolving our alliance with France and creating a new free trade agreement with Poland.

>>76692156
The problem is, that in my opinion, EU was constructed with an idealistic world view, working on the assumption that everybody will be fair and play along. It doesn't have the tools do deal with some countries beeing egoistic, so there must be a public debate about this problem

>Mind that this goes for everyone. Germany should not be allowed to get away with violating antimonopoly regulations either.
I agree

>>76692328
you can't make bilateral trade deals with EU member states, mister Trump

>>76692368
>It doesn't have the tools do deal with some countries beeing egoistic,
Depends on what you mean. The tools it has are quite powerful, but aimed at entire countries. EU cannot directly interfere in domestic political process, which is a good thing. What tools do you think should be appropriate, other than open discussion?

> so there must be a public debate about this problem
I agree. However tone and arguments should be picked carefully, because there is a real possibility that the outcome of this debate will be "fuck doing this together, we hate each other anyway."

>>76692167
Poland sucks, sorry.

>>76692328
>from an industrial giant to a mediocre nation for trade
right-wingers and their identity politics

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fuck that free masonic cucksucker


ay this piece of shit is just for you macron faggot


you wont save france


you'll just ruin it further like every other free masonic secularist cocksucker that sat at it's throne before you.


I hope Lybians fuck you up for what you did to Ghadaffi

rot in shit worthless piece of garbage

>>76692734
Are you on a CIA laptop?

>>76692328
That isn't how the EU works.

>>76692852
Yes

>>76692659
The matter of the fact is that EU is not really a sovereign entity. EU is the leaders of member states meeting in brussels, and the treaties they sign.
Sine there is no higher instance that can sanction countries which act against established rules, its up to the member states to sanction wrongdoers.

>However tone and arguments should be picked carefully, because there is a real possibility that the outcome of this debate will be "fuck doing this together, we hate each other anyway."
The problem is that in many western countries, anti-EU sentiments become stronger and stronger, since people in those countries feel beeing exploit.
So while it might alienate eastern europeans, a harsh public rethoric against poland & co. might reduce the anti-EU sentiments in the west, since people see that wrongdoers are getting punished.

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>EUROPEAN union
>anybody who doesn't want Ar*bs into it is wrong

Why don't Slavs just up and seize control of this pathetic circus?

>>76692716
well regardless of your personal opinion of them Poland is still one of the US's closest allies in Europe and is and has always been an ideological inspiration and ally much like France. When it comes to bullying other countries into committing demographic suicide for political points I'm inclined to support the recipent of the bullying, not the bully.

And fuck this hurr EU leech shit. The Visegrad Group is a cash cow for Western European investment and corporations where there is very little in the way of domestic competition for them, and EU funds are quite a small part of their GDPs. They wouldn't have been let into the EU if it was a one-sided affair.

>>76692993
The only answer to the German poster.

>>76692993
In theory, there's nothing stopping them. Why do you think they haven't?

>polish American and skin-colour babbies shilling here

>>76693046
>In theory, there's nothing stopping them
NATO and Arab Gulf State shekels is stopping them.

>>76692996
>Poland is still one of the US's closest allies in Europe
What gives you that impression? Until 1990, Poland was allied with American arch nemesis.
What makes Poland a closer ally to America than France, Britain or Germany?

>>76691440
What exactly is he going to do?

>>76693066
>an alien with shit opinions
wow, what a shock

>>76693093
My point is that the ability to propose, vote on and pass fresh legislation and development policy as a bloc is freely available to those states. So if they're apparently betraying their true interests then you have to ask to what purpose.

>>76693093
>this degree of delusion
They're racially inferior to Western Europeans, cry harder

>>76691440
No, fuck neoliberals

>>76693118
High approval rate of the US, important geopolitical location, long republican tradition, many figures which aided us in our revolution and many figures who inspired our Founding Fathers. There is a reason Trump is making a state visit there in a few days, probably one of his first in Europe. Hopefully he'll use that as an opportunity to decry the orchestrated attempt on the EU's part to endanger Polish national security with refugees who don't even want to go there.

No, but at least he's alienating the consensus france previously had here in Italy, so maybe I'm wrong

>>76693294
You have high approval rates there because they need your military protection, not because they like you.
And it is true that many Western Europeans critizise the US government, but that doesn't mean that we dislike American people.
Throwing away our friendship that lasted for over half a century, just because of hurt feelings, would be a silly thing indeed

>>76693032
He's not German, you can smell the browniness from his sorry-ass ""rhetoric"".

>>76692945
>So while it might alienate eastern europeans, a harsh public rethoric against poland & co. might reduce the anti-EU sentiments in the west, since people see that wrongdoers are getting punished.
If this is what the EU elites subscribe to, or how the people of EU truly feel, then the EU is already dead, it just doesn't know it yet.

>>76693429
I'm not in favor of doing anything, Western Europe is just not in the right in this particular situation. It's not like the US government's opinion in this dispute even particularly matters but we're going to be siding with v4 on this one.

>>76693294
I appreciate your support for Poland, but for the love of God you could first learn what this shit is about.

The subject here is relocation of a couple of thousands (I think it was about six for Poland? Two and something for Czechia) of refugees that are already in camps in Italy, Greece etc. It's a one shot measure that EU countries agreed on. Poland was in favour back then, under its previous government.

Threat to polish national security was literally none compared to what they're already exposed to on account of being in schengen area.

>>76693499
EU encompasses many countries of different level of development.
That's why I think the "EU of different speeds" is such a good concept.
Countries that are ready can start a deeper integration, meanwhile, other countries can stay back and keep their sovereignty, while enjoying the benefits of the single market

>>76693463
Sorry buddo but muslims are gud boyz who dindu nuffin racist right-winger kill thousands of people daily while muslimz be escaping oppression an hard workas while racist Polish people destroyed Africa and Asia with colonial oppressionz. poalnd deserve to be BLACKED Poland must be majority brown Muslim by 2030 just accept it

>>76693631
we are allied nations, and allies dont meddle with the internal businesses of their allies.
Taking sides in an EU internal problem would be seen as US trying to weaken or even dismantle the EU

>>76693429
>You have high approval rates there because they need your military protection, not because they like you.
we actually are genuinely pretty big Ameriboos generally speaking. But people have the same issues with the American government as everywhere else.

>>76693764
>we

speak for yourself idiot


love it so much why dont you move the fuck out to there?

I sold my US passport to an Irani and burned my citizenship papers the moment that shiity corrupt zionist mobster of a government of theirs declared war on Iraq.

>>76691440
WTF i am threatened now

>>76693669
*other countries can fuck off while we enjoy their cheap workforce and their vast markets

>>76693764
I would argue that Poland doesn't have the history of generation-long friendship with America, unlike the Western Europe.
So if the situation changes, and an alliance with USA wouldn't be seen as beneficial in Poland anymore, it would be much easier for them to cut ties with America

>>76693759
>we are allied nations, and allies don't meddle with the internal businesses of their allies
good, I'm glad we agree that you should leave them alone

>>76693662
any amount is dangerous, and this is not a debacle that anybody east of Germany had in creating. Ghaddafi warned us what would happen. And yes, I'm aware that the US has a huge role in creating this mess.

>>76693867
>I would argue that Poland doesn't have the history of generation-long friendship with America, unlike the Western Europe.
Then pick up a history textbook.

>>76693858
other countries are welcome to participate in a futher EU integration, if they so desire. But they are not forced to do so.
Seems to me like the best possible solution

>>76693883
my history book tells me that poland was allied with Americas enemy til 1989

>>76693669
I'm inclined to agree, even if it means that for the time being we'd drift further away from rest of the EU. Maybe Slovakia will inspire us eventually if they don't fuck up.

And that's naturally assuming EU will manage to not fuck itself up. Posters itt let loose their autism over a couple of thousands of people, but that's literally nothing compared to the challenges ahead.

>>76693840
I am certain that happened

>>76693936
>The only time period is 1945-1989
Shitskin education everyone.

>>76693955
like I give a fuck if you believe me or not

fuck you DUMB POLAK


these idiots here are worthy to be america's ""Älllies"""" and butt buddies cuz most of them are just as fucking stupid as your average """"american""""

>>76693877
what would you do, genius? gas these people?

>>76694012
>reestablishing alliances with recent enemies is great everyone! look at how Russia is riding our exposed anus!

>>76694131
He's a retarded American conservative, he'll announce some ridiculous measure then come back and complain tomorrow when he realises its unfeasible

>>76694131
Germany invited them, Germany can keep them.

>>76694136
>our exposed anus
what country do you belong to?

>>76693867
It doesn't, it's mostly historical and modern. You're overblowing what I said though, I said that Poland is a valuable modern ally and was an important influence early on inbour existence, not that we've been buttbuddies since the 18th century or anything. A sizable portion of Americans don't even know about their role in our history let alone their history but those that do tend to be fond of them. And in the modern geopolitical theater our government recognizes that they're an important partner in Europe. That's it.

>>76693936
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadeusz_Kościuszko

>>76694183
I can't tell if you're dishonest or just ignorant. Migrant waves were already coming well before the often abused "invitation" meme statement.

>>76694210
For America, the only value Poland has is to threaten Russia and keep them in check.
If, in a thought experiment, Russia and USA would become friends overnight, there would be no need for an US-Polish alliance anymore.

meanwhile, our countries share over half a century of common history and common values. Stuff like that binds countries together, even if relations are slightly damaged due to the current US administration

>>76694336
These Alien waves weren't coming into Poland nor was Poland letting them in. Poland might have up to a million Ukrainian refugees, isn't that enough? Do they need shitskin "refugees" for some reason? Are Ukrainians not oppressed enough?

>>76691614
What agreement? You asked, Poland said no and now you're trying to force them to do it.

That's not an agreement, you autistic nigger.

This thread is autism

note the dates

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2015/02/asylum-seekers-flood-into-hungary/385398/
>11 february 2015

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37163217
>27 august 2015

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-opens-its-gates-berlin-says-all-syrian-asylum-seekers-are-welcome-to-remain-as-britain-is-10470062.html
>24 august 2015

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34329825
>22 september 2015

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>>76694419
All EU countries voted on migrant quota, and the majority of countries voted in favour of it

>>76692945
>So while it might alienate eastern europeans, a harsh public rethoric against poland & co. might reduce the anti-EU sentiments in the west
Hahahaha

Yeah because that's totally what you want to do. You want to show that when you disagree with the EU, the EU is going to punish you.

When the Nation is threatened, Nationalists don't bow their heads and go "sorry pls leave us alone". A Nationalist is a person willing to lay down their life for their Nation, you really think they're going to be scared?

When the British burned villages and towns in Ireland, do you think the Nationalists gave up? When the British executed Nationalist leaders did it deter the Nationalists? No, it drove more people into being the Nationalists.

The Nationalist isn't going to be cowed by threats or by sanctions, they're willing to die for their country.

Poland will not take part in your demographic suicide pact, Germany. That's their decision, not ours.

>>76694546
>3 of the Visegrad vote against it
>Poland uses security measures as grounds for not taking them (which is perfectly legal and justified both under UN and EU treaties)
>"you agreed to take them!!"

fuck off you commie bastard

poles got raped and ruled by commies for 50 years
ameritard here claims long lasting republician traditions lol

>>76694131
not repeat the mistake of giving these people the message that they're welcome. That was what made the refugee crisis so bad, it wasn't some random act of god. The people smugglers tell these people that when they get to Germany they'll be able to stay forever and will be given an Xbox and a blonde wife. Western Europe has done nothing to dispel these notions, and if it had done so early on then people would not be getting on the boats.

The narrative is that Eastern Europe needs to fulfill some sort of shared responsibility with the rest of the EU, as if this was just some random misfortune that has befallen the entire union and not an isolated fuckup on the part of a select few governments.

If Poland or any v4 country had made such a fuckup, they would be told to fix it themselves. It's only when Germany or France fucks up that their fuckups magically become EU-wide issues. That's not how the EU should operate, in my opinion, but I am but a fat burgershart so that doesn't matter.

look at all those p*lish immigrant niggers
they think of poland first
no wonder hitler gassed them along with jews
they have the same mentality
if you claim you are the master race then live among your own kind you useless bastards

>>76691937
>When you - or Macron - do this, they are literally stooping down to level of populist polish (or czech, in this respect) government that make retarded statements for local public and to detriment of common benefit.

And when he doesn't do this, he's feeding populists in France who ask why Polish, hungarians or whoever are allowed to not act according to the rules and traties while France is, and has to subsidize them massively to go with this

>>76691487
>wants butter and the worth of the butter

>>76694640
by voting, you agree to accept the will of majority, even if the result happens to be not in your favour.
You can just wote and back down because you dislike the result

>>76694546
No wonder PiS got elected, what a pathetic display by the previous Polish government.

>Baltic countries
For shame. I guess they feel that they're too vulnerable to side against Mommy Merkel, which is understandable, but it's still disappointing to say the least.

>>76694694
>France
>crying about people following the rules

You've been breaking the Maastricht Treaty deficit limits for like a fucking decade now, and Juncker cut you slack because "it's France".

>>76694699
And if Finland was to reject taking in refugees, would you say it's their right since they abstained or would you do the classic cognitive dissonance and say "they chose not to vote so it's their fault they didn't vote"?

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>>76691440
>>76691614
>>76692014

Krauts destroying Europe for the third time in less than 100 years.

>>76694694
The difference is that migrants WANT to go to France, and actively avoid going to countries like Poland. By following these treaties you're letting people in, if Poland does than they're basically holding people who don't want to be there (and will probably head west at the first opportunity they get) prisoner. These are economic migrants, not refugees. They want money and material posessions, not safety.

>>76694699
The Schengen area should only apply to citizens, if it wasn't made that way it was made poorly. rapefugees are not citizens therefore not entitled to go anywhere in Europe. EU isn't US, members are still sovereign entities in the legal sense and shouldn't be forced to accept aliens from other states.

>>76691440
Yup, he's based as fuck :3

>>76694666
>If Poland or any v4 country had made such a fuckup, they would be told to fix it themselves.
No, we would help them, because we are a community and show solidarity. Western European taxpayers give a lot of money to Eastern Europe each year, to help them reach western development level.

>>76694734
What are you talking about?
Do you not know how the EU works?
Those countries rely on Western European funds especially Latvia and Lithuania.

This whole idea of us spreading the refugees around won't help a single damned thing in the end.

Because there weill be MORE refugees in the coming 50 years, a LOT more. Numbers that we really can't begin to wrap our heads around as Africa becomes less able to feed its sharply rising population.

In the end, Europe is going to have to completely shut its borders or collapse - there are no other opitions when half a billion souls from Africa and the Middle East sets forth towards out countries in the next 50 years.

>>76694758
Just because Finland abstained doesn't means it questioned the legitimacy of the vote
Abstaining from voting is a legal action in a democratic system

>>76694825
I wonder why Poland isn't forcing you to take some of the thousands of Ukrainians they recieve then. Unfortunately when you're not Germany or France you don't get the luxury of deciding what's an EU issue or isn't.

>>76694849
Hence my
>I guess they feel that they're too vulnerable to side against Mommy Merkel
statement.

But despite economic pressure, I would still hope that they would actually take a political stand, rather than just leave Hungary, Czechia and Slovakia hanging.

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>>76694825
>No, we would help them

Why are Germans always trying to genocide poles? It's very strange; it seems like this happens every thirty years or so

>>76694803
what does it have to do with accepting the result of a vote you lost?

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>>76693118
>allied
more like """"allied""""

>>76694883
because Ukrainians are not refugees. They are economic migrants and Poland is under no legal obilgation to take them

>>76694902
Germans and Swedes (generally speaking) are trying to destroy any sense of nationalism or national cohesion in Europe.

The thing is, Europe could survive having a little country in the north being retarded, but having the central economic powerhouse be this convinced in the ideas of ''multiculturalism'' is going to tear this continent in half.

>>76694414
>Poland was not letting them in
Hungary was not letting them in either, yet tens of thousands migrants that were to be relocated were actually from hungarian detention camps.

>Ukrainians
for the most part workers, not actual refugees. If Poland decided to lock them up in camps and petition EU to help them deal with them, they would probably show up in those statistics. In either case there's less problems with Ukrainians because they don't come from entirely incompatible culture and can generally speak the language and are literate.

>>76694419
There was actually an agreement and Poland even went along with it. Of course they had change in management since then. Still, even if they were voting against, the decision belonged to majority vote in the council according to treaty Poland was signatory of.

>>76691440
I don't

>>76694902
you know how when some people are nervous they'll do something like tug on their beard, tap their foot, or play with their thumbs? When Germany is nervous it destroys Poland.

>>76691440

Good Job Macron. Poland wants to be inside EU but they are acting "tough" with refugee problem? Not fucking fair, if you're in, eat the shit until the end.

>>76694877
You said that BECAUSE the Visegrad voted, they have to accept the result of the vote. Which implies if they abstained, they wouldn't have to accept it.

Now you're saying whether they vote against it or abstain from it, they have to accept the outcome?

You're just looking for any excuse to impose your will upon another country, and hopefully it backfires on you tremendously.

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>>76691440

he's alright

>>76694952
No one coming to Germany or Sweden are refugees either, because there are no wars in any of the countries that borders us.

The second a refugee steps fot in a country where there isn't a war, he/she is no longer a refugee - because there is no war to run from in that country.

Germany, Italy, Serbia, Greece, Turkey are all at peace - and you can't claim to run from a war that doesn't exist.

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>>76693662
>It's a one shot measure
Oh really? According to whom?
I wonder how many more of such """"one shot"""" measures would follow after the first one.

>>76694952
Are you aware of the irony in this post or are you trying to ruse me?

Why should they?
If they play their cards right they'll get out of this with a shit ton of development and minimal non-whites.

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>>76694959
"good


fuck this continent of scumbags to hell

let it burn all over again


and over and over till this jew infected cancer of the world is no more.


and to this I wish muslims speed

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>>76694952
Brazil has a death toll higher than allegedly-in-war Syria. Are we eligible to be refugees? Because I can tell you Brazilians are scum and would only milk your country if they were given the opportunity.
If you think rapefugees are any different, you should castrate yourself already and start satisfying sandnigger cock with your useless self.

>>76695040
I want to be milked by a Brazilian if you know what I mean

>>76694973
I'd recommend reading about the UN Protocols on refugees, there's a line there that a country can deny asylum on grounds of security.

That is what Poland used to justify its closing of its borders to them (which was the same thing used by countries like Austria, Germany and France to impose border controls to stem the flow).

You don't get to use the caveat for yourself and then cry when someone else uses the same law because it goes against what you wish.

PiS were elected to represent the people of Poland, forcing them to go along with something they were mandated not to agree to is anti-democratic.

>>76694666
>Western Europe has done nothing to dispel these notions, and if it had done so early on then people would not be getting on the boats.
Actually I think the Denmark for instance was paying for commercial campaign in the origin countries saying "don't come, you still have to work for a living here" or something like that.

The problem is, what to do with the more than a million of people that are already within EU?

>>76694952
OH the irony.

>>76694999
>Which implies if they abstained, they wouldn't have to accept it.
it doesn't imply it at all. When you are a member of a community, you cant just dodge unpleasant obligations by abstaining from democratic decision-making process

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>>76694952
you stupid saurkraut nigger, 70% of these people are economic migrants, jesus christ kill yourself and please do europe a favor
>>76695040
this, the entire world is full of death and destruction, that doesnt mean that the last bastions of normalcy and civilization need to become shit too

>>76695085
>what to do with the more than a million of people that are already within EU?
Deport them.

I'm more in favour of us spending money on their infrastructure or creating safe zones in Libya/Lebanon/Syria.

I don't believe in riding roughshod over a country's rights simply because it disagrees with you.

>>76695111
It's exactly what your words implied.

>>76695113
100% of them are economic migrants, or they would have stayed in the first country that's currently at peace they arrived in.

>>76691440
Does Germans prefer him over hollande and Sarkozy ?

>>76695014
>No one coming to Germany or Sweden are refugees either, because there are no wars in any of the countries that borders us.
they are applying for asylum and by international treaties, Germany and Sweden are obliged to look into the asylum application.
Ukraines dont apply for asylum and thus Poland is under no obligation to keep them temporary shelter

>>76695085
there's nothing that can be done besides preventing more. Deportations are a lot more expensive and difficult than people on this board seem to think they are. Combine that with figuring out where most of these people (a lot of whom have no documents) are from and you have an unsolvable mire of shit.

>>76694973
>for the most part workers, not actual refugees.
That's true for the shitskins as well. Most aren't even Syrians.

>>76695040
>Brazil has a death toll higher than allegedly-in-war Syria
I serioulsy doubt that

>>76695235
just Rio de Janeiro has a higher death rate than the region of Palestine which is considered a war zone by the UN

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>>76695193
but thats the thing klaus

ukranians ( msot of them anyways) arent really interested in sticking around in this shithole too long

they got their sights set further west.

guess they saw the piece of the pie we got and said "da, I want what theyre having".


and they're takign advantage of the situation before this shithole gets........... deschengenified?


HAHAHAHA

>>76695282
but we are talking about Syria, not Palestine

>>76695193
They are also obliged to seek asylum in the first EU country they arrive in.

They're also not allowed to seek asylum in more than one EU country.

I guess these things didn't matter to you, so why should that matter to us?

You only pick the rules that favour your positions and ignore the rest, which makes you aboslute scum.

>>76695326
Thats cool, I don't mind having Ukraines or Poles here in Germany.
Those people tend to integrate rather well

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>>76695330
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/brazil-deaths-violent-crime-syria-police-brutality-report-brazilian-forum-for-public-security-a7386296.html

>>76695193
>Germany and Sweden are obliged to look into the asylum application.
Wrong.

It's the same reason Trump's travel ban was reinstated. Under UN Protocols you are allowed to suspend the asylum procedures if there is a security threat.

I'd call the near constant attacks in Europe grounds sufficient grounds for suspension.

>>76695352
And the problem is that the first EU countries (Italy and Greece) simply can't handle the refugee influx.
So in solidarity, Germany and Sweden and other EU countries take refugees to help out Italy and Greece

>>76695399
is it possible that Brazil has a higher population than Syria?

>>76695402
>And the problem is that the first EU countries (Italy and Greece) simply can't handle the refugee influx.
That's why they should shoot the boats down. Problemo solvo

>>76695431
ok but the first guy said higher death toll, jesus germans really are autistic as fuck

>>76695401
You want us to do politics like Trump?

>>76695150
>I'm more in favour of us spending money on their infrastructure or creating safe zones in Libya/Lebanon/Syria.
I agree with you, but >>76695196 deportation is not that easy.

Institutions need to be adapted to make border control and repatriation a thing, and the migrants that come in the meantime can pose an inordinate burden that only portion of the countries shoulder despite all benefiting from the schengen.

Poland would have much more migrants in its detention facilities had schengen not existed.

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>>76695402

lol like I give a shit about shitaly or gayreek?

I say feed them both to Turks

those refugees are their problem

and I couldnt give a rats ass if they set those two shitholes,alogn with yours, on fire.

lmfao

>>76694678
>they think of poland first
I don't see the problem
What else would they think of first? France and Germany?

>>76691440
He was in Hollande's administration in charge of economy stuff which failed miserably in that administration.

I don't know why Macron to be any different now. At best, he will just keep status quo (i.e. the EU has less and less French influence and more German influence) or will let Le Pen or Melenchon to be elected as the next president by disgruntled voters just like Greeks elected Tsipras

>>76695402
Ireland saved your banking system and our economy imploded because of it, where was your solidarity then?

Fuck you and your solidarity bullshit.

>>76695478
>You want us to follow international law?
Yes, I do.

I don't believe in ignoring international law when it suits you and crying about it when you want someone to do something.

Either you follow international law, or you do not. You don't get to choose when to apply it and when to ignore it.

>>76695402
They're breaking the rules, and I can't blame them. The rules are stupid - designed for a different time and for different people.

You're still scum, because you're being a hypocrite. If the rules are so demanding that countries SIMPLY CAN'T LIVE UP TO THEM, then the RULES AND LAWS are garbage.

> Germany and Sweden are obliged
And I like how you changed your tone,
>So in solidarity
first it was our lawful duty to do it, now we do it because of solidarity - you're not consistent at all.

>>76695497
yeah bro just feed poland to russia or wathever, who gives a shit about poland lol

>>76695553
>yeah bro just feed poland to russia

we already have been, stupid luigi, now is your turn

>>76695530
Ireland got into the banking crisis due to its own shortcomings, and it did recieve help from the EU

>>76695578
Greece was under Turkish rule for 500 years fool. SHOOT THE BOATS DOWN.

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>>76695235
>I serioulsy doubt that
Of course you do, that's not what Mama Merkel wants you to believe. You can't share those goodies with the happy, receptive Brazilian folk, they have to be independent!
No, our efforts must be all focused in helping those POOR, HELPLESS war refugees, haven't you SEEN the bloody boy on the back of an ambulance? #PrayForAleppo

You are a fucking disgrace.

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>>76694952
>German self-awareness

>>76695482
>deportation is not that easy
I never said it was easy. But it is necessary.

Would you rather deport them now and deal with the issue over the 3-4 years it takes? Or do we -not- deport them, and encourage many more to come (which will make deporting even harder)?

I don't believe in taking in refugees in the first place, I don't think they have any place in Ireland, so even if it costs 5 times to deport them as it does to keep them, I'm willing to deport them.

>>76695611
>due to its own shortcomings
Wrong. We got into the crisis because German, French and British banks were fucking pummelling money into the economy at the same time you told us to let the Eastern countries into the movement of people. Germany alone had investments here of €100bn.

>help from the EU

Hahahaha fuck off no we didn't. The EU fucking borrowed money on the market AND CHARGED US A HIGHER PRICE.

The EU made a fucking profit off our problems.

Fuck you and your false solidarity you jumped up little Kraut cunt.

>>76695578
I don't think either of you should be sacrificed to anyone. Honestly, there ought to be some oversight and changed to current EU policies in regards to the freedom of movement and such.

But our enemies aren't other Europeans (except for the leftists), our enemies are the foreign hordes at our gates.

And instead of bickering about which gate we should leave open for them, we should be forming opinion in Europe towards repairing and maintaining the wall to the outside world.

>>76695040
>allegedly-in-war Syria

Genuinely one of the dumbest things I've ever read, kill yourself.

>>76695531
to help Italy and Greece, Germany and other Western country put the first safe country rule temporarily on hold and thus we are obliged to test their asylum claims.

>If the rules are so demanding that countries SIMPLY CAN'T LIVE UP TO THEM, then the RULES AND LAWS are garbage.
Rules can be changed, but it takes time. However, Italy and Greece have problems right now, and they depend on our solidarity.
I find it really dissapointing that some Eastern European countries, who greatly benefit from EU development funds refuse to show any solidarity with member states

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>>76695631


shoot down the boats

gather those crossing the border and machine gun them down into mass graves

I couldnt give a fuck

you wont catch me writing letter of protest to the UN.

>>76695635
I should point out that the actual death toll should include only Civilians, since soldiers/combatants are expected to know death is a consequence.

If we do that, we have 95,891 dead people, or 13,698 a year.
How is that a war, you suicidal multikulti worshiper?

>>76695702
Read my post and >>76695635
Kill yourself.

>>76695688
>our enemies are the foreign hordes at our gates.
But you are the foreign horde at our gate. We have almost a million foreigners here, with only 3.8 million Irish.

>>76695635
you do realize that Brazil has much more people than Syria, right?

i would like to remember you my fellows europeans that the europeans NGOs that use swedish and north/western europeans ships to drag the rapefugees from lybians coast to italy are not italians so that we can't apply strict laws on them.
North western europeans organizations are making illegal money by this way and there's nothing we can legally do to stop them beside change our laws (and we are gonna do it)

>>76695709
The rules as they are set up would have made Greece and Itally collapse due to the amount of refugees they are swarming towards Europe.

They literally had no choice in breaking the rules and letting the refugees through - this means the rules are garbage - and they're not being followed.

You accept this, but can't accept it when other people refuse to follow rules that you agree with.

This makes you a hypocrite and and intellectually dishonest.

No one in the EU agreed to take on MILLIONS of refugees from non-EU countries, just because Germans and Swedes hates their own countries doesn't mean everyone else has to.

>>76695684
so its Germanys fault when Irish banks run out of money?

>>76695635
as if the problem of brazil were immigrants lol

>>76695755
I hope you are not blaming the actions of NGOs on our governments

>>76691440
I do

>>76695769
No, just like it's not Poland's fault that there's refugees in Greece.

Where was your solidarity when we saved your banking system?

"Solidarity" is a buzzword for "give me what I want".

Shove your solidarity up your ass, faggot.

>>76694899
No one here seems to realise that their ultra-right views are confined to a small corner of the Internet.
The East Euro states are not going to shoot themselves in the foot because of refugees

>>76695762
>They literally had no choice in breaking the rules and letting the refugees through
And your solution is keeping the borders closed and letting Italy and Greece drown in refugees?

>>76695748
Oh my fucking god. As I said, in the post you replied to, the freedom of movement need to be changed.

I agree, Poland shouldn't be able to send millions of its peoples to other countries like theey did to the UK, every European country is unique and should be able to perserve its own culture.

But exchange students? People moving for business and small-scale immigration of other white people? I'm all for that. And the day that Swedish immigration to Ireland becomes a problem I'll be the first person to stand for your right to send us home.

>>76695852
No. You close the borders to Europe, you use tug ships to drag the boats back to Africa and when the refugees knows it's impossible to get into Europe by boat, they won't try it any more.

>>76695802
i'm blaming the european complacent laws, i'm not a "right-wind populist", i support our moderate left wing government and european union but the NGOs are a real fucking problem for us

>>76695824
>Where was your solidarity when we saved your banking system?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Adjustment_Programme_for_Ireland

the real solution of this problem should be an "african marshall plan" but as we know african countries are a fucking black hole for money due to corruption and criminality

>>76695896
you can't just drop off people into another sovereign country without any agreement

I would like to point out that the UK was the only country in the EU that truly respected freedom of movement in 2004 and didn't ask for special privileges. Quite interesting seeing some of the rhetoric we get on here from states that will talk about free movement and consistency a lot but bottle up when push comes to shove.
Germany and France had some of the strictest opt-outs by far btw.

>>76695923
>The EU/IMF could make €9bn over the lifetime of the €67.5bn in bailout loans being lent to this country to keep it afloat.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/eu-and-imf-could-make-9bn-profit-from-irish-bailout-26748975.html

How selfless of you to -only- make 9bn in profit from us! Thanks, Germany! You truly are selfless!

Fuck off. Take your cunting solidarity and fucking gas yourself.

>>76695971
but you can't let them drown in the sea, after all they are humans

>>76696010
>could
the article is from 6 years ago. do you have any new information if EU actually made any profit out of it?

>>76695971
Actually you can, if those people arrived from that country we have the right to send them back there. Stopping someone from entering Sweden over the Finnish border isn't sending someone back to Finland, it's simply making sure they never got into Sweden in the first place.

And we can grease whatever local warlords controls the shore with some cash and they won't care either or.

>>76691440
No. He's a french, gay, pro-EU globalist.

>>76696056
the polish guy to whome i replied was suggesting that we take the refugees already in europe and drop them off on african coast.
that would be against international law and damage the EU reputation a lot

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>>76695684
>>76695824
Based lad tells it how it is

>>76695896
the problem is that, right now, there's very little legal framework to do that. As the Italian is pointing out, there's no legal way to stop Swedish NGOs from helping people smugglers and having them land on Lampedusa. And once they've docked, legally speaking it's impossible to just easily evict anybody, there needs to be due process, which is impossible when you have hundreds of thousands per day.

There's simply no legal way to solve the solution, the only reasonable solution at this point would be an illegal one, one which the EU will never tolerate.

The best case scenario at this point would be a coup d'état at the EU and for an authoritarian government to take over. Look at Singapore: during the Vietnamese refugee crisis, they literally had their army turn their guns on Vietnamese refugee ships (and, unlike """""Syrians""""", Viets were real refugees). Such a thing was only possible because of Singapore being an authoritarian state. If it were like the EU, half of Singapore's population would now be Vietnamese.

>>76695971
If Blacks travel North through Libya they can travel South through Libya.

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I unironically think Macron is based

>>76696121
Lmao first of I'm Swedish, second I did not suggest that. If you have a ship trying to enter your waters, a country has the right to make sure that ship doesn't cross into territorial waters of the country in question.

Actually tugging them back to shore is simply us being nice.

>>76696074
>If
The loan is over a period lasting decades, not just years you fucking muppet. The EU has already been making profit of us since we're servicing the debt and paying them their interest without touching the actual debt pile (under Troika terms).

Now, again, fuck off.

>>76696121
our reputation is already being ruined, not in the world but in europe itself and this is more serious in my opinion, europe union can survive with its international reputation ruined but can't if it has no support from the people

>>76696142
>Look at Singapore: during the Vietnamese refugee crisis, they literally had their army turn their guns on Vietnamese refugee ships (and, unlike """""Syrians""""", Viets were real refugees).
you really believe this would be the best case scenario?

>>76695971
>you can't just drop off people into another sovereign country without any agreement
Unless that country happens to be Poland?

>>76696142
>There's simply no legal way to solve the solution
Fine every NGO for its operations in the Mediterranean, charge them with being complicit in human trafficking by Libyan gangs (which they are).

Seize their boats and imprison a few of them if you must. The rest of them will very soon get the memo.

>>76696142
There will be no choice in the future my Canadian friend. Because the huge masses of people who will start moving towards Europe from Africa due to overpopulation and climate-change effected starvation will mean the collapse of every single European state even if we all wanted to take them in.

And furthermore, no it's not illegal to stop boats from entering your territorial waters. The boats could be stopped easily enough.

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>>76696157
Wrong pic.

>>76696236
Oh man.
10/10.
Germans only care about the rules when it favours them after all.

>>76696185
>The EU has already been making profit of us since we're servicing the debt and paying them their interest without touching the actual debt pile (under Troika terms).
hmm... so borrowing money to a bankrupt state is a lucarative business? I wonder why the international moneylenders weren't in any rush to borrow money to Ireland

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the fact of the matter is


goymoney has allowed in a FUCKING MIDDLE EASTERN TORJAN HORSE into their castle and now theyre shitting scared of going to sleep.

HAHAH it's all over for you krauts, theyre going to revolt and kill every socialist lefty in goymoney and not even russia will step in to help you.


scumbags finishing a deserving fate is all thats abuot to go down.


serves them right for destroying my country.

>>76696142
I'm not sure in what universe some of us here are living in but human trafficking remains a serious crime under international law and it would be well within the power of national governments to, at the very least, investigate the nature of NGO activity and prosecute any wrongdoing.

>>76691440
Based
Want eurogibs? Pay the fucking price white niggers

>>76696180
>If you have a ship trying to enter your waters, a country has the right to make sure that ship doesn't cross into territorial waters of the country in question.
I dont believe this applies to European NGO ships

>>76696280
Extremism is reddit

>>76696121
>damage the EU reputation a lot

What? With whom? Americans? They've invaded countries before and Trump is slamming EU for doing nothing. Russia? China? They would view that as a sign of strenght. African shitholes? Who cares?

>against international law

Like anybody respects that anymore.

>>76696215
It all depends on your point of view.

If you're a humanist with short-term sight, then obviously that would not be the best case scenario. However, with long-term thinking in mind, what other solution is there? Especially one which is beneficial for European people. It seems like all other alternatives are incredibly short-sighted, or simply delaying the problem until a later date.

What's your long-term solution? Not just for the current 120,000 who need to be relocated right now, but also for the hundreds of millions who are still to come in the near future? It seems that all the EU is doing these days is coming up with short-term reactive solutions (except on climate change, for which I applaud the EU for its efforts).

>>76696317
Yep.
When every night becomes Cologne at New Years even the krauts might regret what they've done.

>>76696349
>Right or Left is extremism
No one said anything about Far Left or Far Right.

Its really cute how my countrymen blame europe for our own politicians and peoples incompetence/greed. :3

>>76696348
If they are transporting foreign nationals?
You better fucking believe the coastguard or the military has that right.

Just because you pack a Russian submarine full of refugees doesn't mean the Swedish navy doesn't have the right to chase it away from our waters.

>>76696400
Trust me, I know your pain.

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>>76695749
What's the matter? Are you trying to blur the metrics to keep inside of your Islamic bubble?

If you want to talk about proportion, we can do that, no problem!
El Salvador, the top-ranked country for murder rates, has a death toll of 0,19% of its population every year.
Meanwhile, Syria has it at 0,22% if you take in the soldiers, but only 0,06% if you count just civilians.

Has Germany ran a campaign to save #ElSalvadorenos?

How about other death factors? It's unfair to count only "murder rates" when there are lots of other troubles afflicting Latin America.

Lets factor in hunger, why not? Up until 2012 (the Syrian ""war"" was already going on) 20% of the Brazilian population was starving.
We've now reduced this number to less than 5% without Europe getting all uppity about it.

EVEN SO, we still have 12,908 annual deaths to hunger, a rate of 4,61 per 100.000 people, whereas Syrians have it easy with it at 2,09.

So even we take your warped little mind's account, Brazil is at war with hardships, crime and lack of resources more than Syrians. Why aren't you taking us in? I thought you were solidary to the world's problems, you fucking Nazi.

>>76696243
you are aware that 3 different government branches exist, right?
and if you charge somebody, you need a trial, which will take quiet some time, and there is no guarantee that you win?

>>76696236
kek

>>76696196
I don't think the refugee crisis is so dire yet that we need to basically invade other countries and dump our refugees there

>>76696243
and that's what we should be doing and hopefully we are going to do soon

>>76696359
I would prefere an Australian type of solution.
Basically, having agreements with third-party nations, who take our refugees in exchange for money

>>76696478
it is, and it's going to be worse soon

>>76696404
a NGO ship under european flag is not a russian submarine

>>76696478
>I don't think the refugee crisis is so dire yet
see my post here: >>76696359

This is a long-term problem, it's downright dangerous to use such short-term thinking as "not so dire yet". Obviously, nobody can predict the future. However, according to every single clue and educated projection we can come up with, it WILL be "so dire" in the future, whether you like it or not. And when that happens, the current "solution" will not enough.

>>76696196
part of the strength of europe was its projection of unity. Over the last decade a lot has been done to destroy that image.

>>76696157
>generic fuck Drumpf and fuck white people neo-liberal candidate #1982349
>hurr he's a centrist
I'm sick of this stupid /brit/ meme

>>76696437
Brazilians are of course always welcome to apply for asylum in Germany
However, there is no guarantee that the asylum request gets granted

>>76696478
>basically invade other countries and dump our refugees there

Why not? That's exactly what those refugees in Libya are doing.

>>76696565
I think you serioulsy underestimate the negatives of right-wing populist with no prior governance experiance seizing power.
If you want to see a real life example, look no futher than over your southern border

>>76696615
And why the fuck is that? Because we don't have boats to impose on you accepting us?

>>76696568
this is a real problem, european Administrative bodies are not protecting the interest of the majority of the countries in european union, in this case we are talking about Italy that is one of the most powerful and important european countries and one of its foundators

>>76696400
>my
Don't pretend like you're from here, Gall.

>>76696452
>which will take quiet some time
So fucking what? You can have the courts issue an injunction to stop their action in the meantime. If they break the injunction they'll be held in contempt of court and confined to a jail cell.

Even if you -lose- the case, you've still kept them out of the sea for months.

Stop being a whiny faggot complaining about not being able to do anything, you black cunt.

>>76696627
different rules apply for people and states

>>76696683
i am not an expert on the right of asylum, you are welcome to come here and try your luck

>>76696747
how is it supposed to come there you retard? it's not that easy to move from a country to another country if the two have not signed any accord of free circulation of the people

>>76696710
>You can have the courts issue an injunction to stop their action in the meantime.
I don't think you can. If it was that easy, we would have done that already long time ago

>>76696520
The problem is that the effectiveness of that solution is very limited. The detainment center in Nauru has very limited capacity. It works for Australia because they have little human trafficking compared to Europe, but with the volumes which Europe is presently receiving, where exactly would you send them? And more importantly, isn't it simply hypocritical to send them to literal prisons in failed nations such as Nauru under the premisse of human rights? How is that more of a humanitarian solution than sending them back to their own shores? Furthermore, how is it all more applicable? You still have the same problem of NGOs smuggling people in, and once they're on European soil, how do you realistically get them out? And which exact country would you turn to? Nauru works because it's a completely failed state which has essentially no other alternative, which desperately needs help (especially with climate change) and which has a tiny population, and is therefore easy to buy off. But buying off a normal country to do such a thing? Not even the wealthy gulf states could be convinced to take any refugees, and attempts to get Turkey to do so have obviously failed, seeing as Turkey is a very problematic state to deal with and is a state which (rightfully) will never do such a thing for a cheap price.

>>76696747
>i am not an expert
Aye, we can fucking tell, yet you seem intent on making sure to reply to every post with a solution about why it won't work.

>>76696789
>I don't think you can
I don't give a bollocks what you think. You can do and the reason it isn't done is because of limp wristed fags like you who keep crying whenever a Government does try to do it.

>>76696784
with a boat. brazilians look not that different from arabs/africans anyway

>>76696236
savage

>>76696710
>Gall
Pure Irish, just not white trash.

>>76696814
Sorry, but you have no idea how government works.
You are like Trump who promises to solve health care in a week, and laters says "nobody knew health care bill could be so difficult"

>>76696236
Still waiting for the German to reply to this one.

>>76696679
I never brought up right-wing populists. I'm only talking about authoritarianism, with at least a little bit of a right-wing leaning. Lee Kuan Yew wasn't a "right-wing populist", he was simply an authoritarian leader, one of the classic examples of a "benevolent dictator".

we should militarly occupy lybian coast and Libyan/ciad border

>>76696809
Yes, it is hypocritical but still better than machine-gunning refugees.
The idea is that after a while, they realize that they can't get into Europe this way, and the refugee influx would stop.

If such a deal is in place, and a NGO ship with refugees arrives, they are immediatelly put on another ship and then moved to that third-country

>>76696966
No, just enforce a neval blockade on any north Africa nation that refuses to control its borders.

Like the Israelies did with Gaza.

>>76696889
>Sorry, but you have no idea how government works.
You don't even know what a fucking injunction is you moron, off away with yourself Kraut scum.

>>76696856
Straight from d4 I'm sure.

>>76696932
such sort of benevolent dicator doesn't exist in Europe.
Only people who would be willing to gun down refugees are right wing polulist, and those people have zero experience with leading a country. It would be a disaster if they came to power, a disaster far worse than the refugee crisis

>>76697010
with a naval block there is the risk of letting a lot of people drown

>>76696966
I don't know about Italy, but German constitution forbids a war of agression

>>76697050
i'm pretty sure that as soon as European boats stop picking up people 50m off the coast of Libya to ship them to Italy, that migration route would greatly diminish in scale

>>76697078
Well it's a good fucking thing German law doesn't apply to anyone else isn't it?

>>76697078
yeah for italy it's the same, but we could force Sarraj to ask for our intervention

>>76696980
>but still better than machine-gunning refugees.
To my knowledge they didn't actual gun any of them down. They simply pointed their guns at them and made it very clear than Singapore would not accept any of them, which prompted them to seek refuge elsewhere.

>If such a deal is in place, and a NGO ship with refugees arrives, they are immediatelly put on another ship and then moved to that third-country
But which country? Again, even Europe's best bet (Turkey) ended up not working. So with Turkey out of the question, which country are you going to turn to? And how exactly?

And again, how is any better than simply having an effective coast guard which actually prevents illegal ships from entering territorial waters, and which deports people who have entered illegally?

>>76696966
I'm not sure that would do much. After all, Spain has Ceuta and Melilla, but those do little to stop illegal immigration. In fact, it only seems to worsen the problem.

>>76697115
the NGOs are a plague to europe and italian police is trying to find their implication in trafficking humans

>>76697194
i read in media that Italy is planning to close the ports and confiscate the boats of NGOs that try to operate there, if that's the case that would be pretty dope

>>76697026
d18 I'll have you know.

Also the NGOs are covered in their actions by numerous international treaties to which all of europe are party. UNDHR, PRSR, CRSR, SOLAS and UNCLOS all apply and they can't be legally stopped from rendering assistance to those they happen to encounter.

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>>76691440
>French centrist Emmanuel Macron said on Thursday France would push for European Union sanctions against Poland if he is elected president, signalling he wanted to take the lead in defending the bloc's democratic values.
>He wanted to take the lead in defending the bloc's democratic values
>defending the blocks democratic values

We defend democracy by forcing other countries to do things they don't want to do. Sounds about right.

>>76697278
The refugee lovers never could see further than their own nose.

>>76697169
>But which country?
It could be any African country that is dependant on us in some way and would be ready to make that deal.

>And again, how is any better than simply having an effective coast guard which actually prevents illegal ships from entering territorial waters, and which deports people who have entered illegally?
You can't deport people without having an agreement with other countries who would actually take the refugees back

>>76691440
Fuck with gerontofile.
My fellow Polanders, Russian and Polish peoples are Slavic brothers with common and ancient history. Our endless strife shaped entire Eastern and even some parts of Central and Southern Europe. We are the greatest peoples among all Slavs with the richest literatures and best languages possible. Let us unity against our common Western European foul which tries to annihilate our traditional values and our very countries by converting us into pro-LGBT, pro-Islamist neo-Western cucks.

>>76697252
i heard it too, it would be a nice evolution in the question

>>76696715
>rules

Created by states

>>76697050
countries can still perform search and rescue operations in international waters

>>76697278
it's quite simple
majority of people votes for our cause = democracy
majority of people votes against us = undemocratic dictatorship regime

>>76697346
>foul
*foe.

>>76697278
we had a democratic vote on that issue, but Poland doesn't respect the will of majority. >>76694546

>>76697346
t. sasza

>>76697262
They're assisting human trafficking, they most certainly can be punished for their actions. And those treaties apply to -international- waters, not national ones.

There's also the 1967 UN Protocols which stipulate a country can suspend asylum procedures if there's a security threat.

The regular attacks in Europe are most certainly sufficient grounds for suspension of them.

Also
>D18
That explains it.

>>76697431
And while there are EU countries not following the rules set up for immigration to Europe, why should Poland follow any rules in regards to immigration at all?

Is Poland worse than Greece for not wanting to follow the rules?

You only like the rules that you agree with, and if other countries break rules you dont agree with, you don't mind.

Fuck you.

>>76697334
So forcing millions of refugees to go in some failed stated shithole like Libya is somehow more of a human solution that just forcing the boats to turn back?

>You can't deport people without having an agreement with other countries who would actually take the refugees back
For those who have managed to enter illegally despite a blockade and proper coast guard, perhaps then your solution of striking a deal with some third country would be a solution. This way, only a small number (i.e. those who have made it past coast guard and have landed on European soil) would have to be relocated. The other ones are simply turned back before they enter territorial waters.

>>76697050
>letting criminals drown during their crime
Oh nooooooooooo.

>>76697604
criminals?

>>76691440
Yes

>>76697647
Illegally smuggling yourself into another country is illegal.

Regards
Everyone with a brain.

>>76697604
It might be illegal, but I still think it's too much to just watch people drown. And remember, if the state can start just watching people drown, then there's no protection in a hypothetical situation where you or any other legal citizen is drowning.

The value of citizenship must still be upheld. What needs to change is the way that we treat non-citizens as if they have the same rights as citizens.

>>76696317
>scumbags finishing a deserving fate is all thats abuot to go down.
That's some C2 English skills you got there, Seba

>>76697431
>refuse to do things that weren't in your contract
>dare to determine your country's own immigration policy
>"reeeeee, sanction them!"
Stand firm, Polska.

>>76697687
>then there's no protection in a hypothetical situation where you or any other legal citizen is drowning.

why? Citizens have rights given to them as citizens that non-citizens do not.

big nosed jewish rat faced punk

>>76697687
Of course you help people you see, but the risk of having some drown/not be caught in time can't dictate if you blockade or not.

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>>76691440
ITT: BUTTHURT OF EUROPE
we dont give a shit about your problems. you ruined your own home now take the responsibility of your actions

>>76697772
They joined a union and are bound by its rules. They knew what they were getting into when they voluntarily joined.

The members voted on a refugee relaxation plan and it was decided on a majority basis.


If Poland doesn't like the way it was democratically decided they can leave the union, but they won't because they gain far too much with either funding to let that go.

Either Poland mans the fuck up and leaves the eu or they follow the rules.

>>76698035
Fuuuuu that should be relocation not relaxation. -_-

>>76698035
>third option
continue doing nothing and nothing happens

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>>76697346
Fuck off, sneaky kacap. I'd unironically delegalize panslavism if I could.
Vivat Visegrad

>>76698035
But every single country in the EU broke the rules when they allowed refugees to move through them without registering them.

By your logic, Germany should leave the EU, becuase it allowed refugees to move through it to Denmark and Sweden.

But I guess CERTAIN laws doesn't count.

>>76698066
>relaxation
No, it suits more.

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>manlet grannyfucking jew acolyte trying to start his big boy political career on the back of Poland

The official statement of the ruling party is that Macron is a fucking degenerate and I have to go with them on that.

>>76698121
FANTASTIC post

>>76698035
Or they call the EU's bluff and simply accept sanctions for it since they won't kick them out either.

>>76698035
Has it occurred to you the guys denying asylum didn't vote for it? Sure, a majority in Poland might have, but that doesn't mean there wouldn't be people against it afterwards.

They are going against democracy, yes, but the argument that "they are going back on their word" is silly.

>>76697778
because if the coast guard sees a boatfull of people drowning in international waters, it can't automatically tell "they're non-citizens, we don't have to save them". There could very well be citizens among those drowning, and so in my view the coast guard should never take a chance to let a citizen drown. However, once the non-citizens are saved, then they should be returned to where they came from as soon as medically possible.

>>76697944
Agreed

>>76698035
EITHER GERMANY, AUSTRIA, GREECE, ITALY, MANS UP AND REFUSE REFUGEES TO PASS THROUGH IT TO DENMARK AND SWEDEN OR IT FUCKING LEAVES THE EU

Said no leftist piece of shit Canadian ever

Because you're disgusting hypocrites.

>>76698121
>he unironically gave us Ukraine, Belarus and Baltics on that pic
Ok, bro, whatever you wish

>>76698035
France has been breaking a fucking *Treaty* for years (the Maastricht Treaty/Growth and Stability Pact) and they've been let do what they want because (in the words of Juncker) "it's France".

Yet, Poland not wanting the EU to have competence in refugee settlement means they have to leave?

Fuck off, Trudeau.

>>76698069

Okay then you get sanctions and funding gets cut. That is fair.

>>76698127
>>76698127
Not being able to enforce the full extent of the law is not the same as disregarding it. The number of refugees passing through Germany was probably too much to handle. If Denmark feels Germany purposely directed refugees to Denmark then they should take the appropriate actions within the European unions courts to seek compensation, there is a process. That is not the same as a country that refuses certain plans voted by the majority of the eu. In that case Sanctions against said countries are justified and should be severe enough to dissuade openly flaunting the rules voted in by the majority.

Refugees spread diseases. Therefore no entry for refugees in Poland

>>76698155
It doesn't mater, the framework of the eu was a majority vote, by virtue of joining the eu they submitted themselves to this contractual obligation.

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>>76698121
my nygga

>>76698346
The Polish are using international law, specifically the 1967 Protocols on refugees which allows a country to suspend asylum/refugee procedures during a period of security threats.

>ree follow our international law we're a union!!
>wtf do you mean you're following international law what are you a fucking fascist?

Go back to plebbit.

What's even funnier about this is that you're pretending Poland is the only country to do this, but France under De Gaulle did something much more extreme. They essentially left their chair empty and ground the entire European Community to a halt.

I suppose France should be told to get the fuck out for flaunting the rules?

>>76698346
>Not being able to enforce the full extent of the law is not the same as disregarding it

Is that the Canadian way of saying ''completely disregard the hundreds of thousands of refugees traveling through your countries further into Europe, in completel dissregard to the agreements you signed in the past''

According to the LAW, you know the LAW and the democratically made RULES we all signed on for, there should be NO REFUGEES passing from GERMANY into DENMARK, yet hundreds of thousands did, and most of them ended up in Sweden.

You only want to enforce the laws you agree with, and then you come up with excuses when you don't want to punish countries for breaking laws you don't agree with.

Get fucked you disgusting hypocrite. Germany should be sanctioned 200 000 times for every single refugee they let into Denmark against the laws they signed themselves.

>>76698346
>Okay then you get sanctions
lel
Literally all of the local hypermarkets belong to them. So I can't wait to see French and German politicians sanctioning French and German entrepreneurs in Poland.

>>76698408
I think your new second language (newspeak) has made you a bit rusty in English, this has nothing to do with what I said.

>>76698448
No one is saying eu can force Poland to take refugees, international law is not at stake. But it entirely with the European unions statutory powers to punish Poland financially if they disregard the rules within the framework. This has nothing to do with 'international law'. The union has the right to sanction member states and Poland as a member is bound by the rules set forth by the majority.

>>76698504

Take it to the courts if that's the case, there is procedure and rules to follow for these disputes.

>>76692996
>Poland is still one of the US's closest allies in Europe
you treat them like shit tho

>>76698703
>take it to the courts
So we should punish some countries immedietly, like Poland, while other people can break the law - signed with the same authority as any other European law, should just go through years in court?

If Poland ought to be sanctioned for not agreeing to follow the rules in regards to refugees, then everyone else who refused to follow the laws in regards to refugees should also be sanctioned.

And that's 99% of all of Europe.

>>76698703
>take it to the courts
hahahahahahahahahaha fuck off

The European Court is a politically motivated "court", they've constantly said that they will interpret the law so as to give meaning to the "ever closer union" thing.

They even ruled against the European Council to reduce their own wages. The Council had every right to reduce their wages following the financial crash but they ruled it wasn't sufficient to warrant their wages being cut.

Fuck off, the CJEU/ECJ is a kangaroo court accountable only to their own pockets.

>>76691440
I am Greek.

>>76698774


Poland has not broken any laws, there is no court to take them to. They are disobeying a directive decided by the majority of the union. It's more like a plan, all the member states voted on a plan to relocate refugees, it's not a de facto law.

>>76698905
>not broken laws
>disobeying a directive
>more like a plan
You don't even know what a directive is...

>>76694782
it's all they know

>>76698833
If you feel that the bureaucracy of the European is so much a hassle hat it outweighs the financial benefits, then leave. You cannot join the union, knowing the full extent of its authority, and pick/choose which rules to follow. Such actions have consequences and if it means sanctions so be it. Poland does t have to take refugees, that's fine, just don't complain about the sanctions if you get them. Can't cherry pick the best parts of the union.

>>76698568
they wont sanction French and German entrepreneurs, they will simply cut EU development funds from Poland

>>76699033
What a great non-sequitur. That post was discussing the bias of the CJEU.

>>76699087
I'm focusing the conversation because you are going off on tangents. I don't want the topic to drift.

>>76691440
He's a subhuman.

>>76699147
>a tangent
It certainly isn't a tangent. You've argued that we should "take them to the courts", however the courts have already proved themselves to be biased and flawed. You're just regurgitating the same nonsense because you're clueless about how it functions, like saying a directive wasn't a law.

>>76691440
I really have high hopes when it come to Macron.
While Merkel is a very talented politician, she lacks the charisma to unite people of Europe

>>76699351
Ah yes because the man to unite Europe is a French manlet with a fetish for old women.

>Germans

>>76699564
french manlets have a good record in uniting europe

>>76699208
In my opinion it is a tangent because you are arguing something that cannot be objectively proven or disproven. It is your opinion that the judicial system is flawed not an objective fact. I'm not arguing opinions.

The fact of the matter is Poland joined a union and is bound by the rules set forth by the union. If it is within the unions power to sanction member states over refusals to follow plans voted in by the majority, so be it. Poland can either follow the plans laid out by the majority of the union or they can accept the sanctions, both options are available within the unions framework. The 3rd option is to leave the union.

>>76699208
http://www.enhesa.com/blog/eu-directive-vs-eu-regulation-whats-difference?language=en

This is the difference.

>>76699928
>>76700057
do you have a background in law?

>>76698568

So this is the power of polish education.

The sanctions will be cuts to your development fund, which means less money for your farms, hospitals, science and infrastructure projects. The money will then be diverted to Italy or Greece who are taking the brunt of the crisis.