>his country is part of NATO

I don't get why we're still in NATO

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>>76367620
>actualy being an American vassal state

>he is in NATO
>he never reaches his spending obligations
>he will continue to put more funds into refugee care
>he will never have a half-capable military

>>76367620
Because you guys were unironically butthurt at having lost against Germany so bad and unwillingly ended up on our side of the iron curtain.
You couldn't fight the war and when everyone liberated your half of the continent you wanted some measure of self-determination so y'all threw a hissy fit and threatened to leave.
Sad.

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>he joined nato and abolished conscription

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>tfw we can bomb Sweden

>>76367838
>>76367668
t. Vassals in denial

http://www.newsweek.com/russian-bombers-baltic-tailed-nato-finnish-and-swedish-jets-626569

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>>76367844
>bomb sweden
>refugees head for norway

checkmate

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>>76367927
Nope

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>>76367990
wow norway more like
noway
fuggin' kikes wow

>>76367908
how does this prove anything lol?

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>>76367570
>living every moment of your life pissing your pants over whether Russia invades you
Don't know this feel.

>>76367767
yeah ok cool but there's no reason why we're still in NATO today

well we left but because we are america's slaves we rejoined

>>76368107
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBhOzRvkERc

>>76368136
>Russia is literally bankrolling LePen and interfering in your elections
"lol there's no reason why NATO serves as a deterrent against Russia"

Come the fuck on. I'm not even the most Russophobe of Americans, as I think we unnecessarily screwed them over during the Yeltsin era with the IMF and other organizations, but you'd have to be blind not to realize that Putin's Russia is just as dangerous as the USSR.

>>76368107
russia will fly right past non nato countries and bomb the shit out of nato countries.

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>>76367908
>Look at me i'm your typical american, i spew incoherent bullshit that doesn't have anything to do with the stuff i link.

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>>76368200
Yeah that's exactly how Germany treated the neutral Belgium.

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>>76368200
>he believes this

>>76368192
Sweden has perfected the art of deterrence. USA can't even possibly compare

>>76368194
>Putin's Russia is just as dangerous as the USSR
>our military-industrial complex needs money, buy our overprised shit
Nice business

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>>76368345
ivan comin in hot with the truth bombs
>FReedum aINt FreE fugGin hell!1!

>>76368256
>>76368299
That's how it works you shit for brains.

That's how it has worked since 50s

And please don't post some retarded "let me tell you about your country" bullshit which reeks of your typical american idiotism.

>>76368345
The EU's economy far dwarfs yours. If they got their shit together, and Germany stopped being a cuck for your natural gas, they wouldn't even need the USA.

>>76368429
too bad Europeans hate eachother and refuse to cooperate

>>76368422
Even if that's true, you'll be surrounded by countries that got nuked to all hell. The fallout will kill you.

>>76368194
>Russia is literally bankrolling LePen
>a private czecho-russian bank represent the whole country

>interfering in your elections
proof?

also i it was true, we're still in NATO, so what does NATO changes?

do you also believe that we'll get invaded by Russia or something? Do you believe in the big ebil russian meme?

>>76368422
>t. a non-NATO country that has been invaded by the USSR in the last century
nice

you wanna speak on behalf of Ukraine too dipshit?

>>76368299
>he doesnt
when the time comes we'll be ready againts both western and eastern invaders. Nato soldiers get the bullet too.

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>>76368473
>proof?
Bankrolling a French political party.

>also i it was true, we're still in NATO, so what does NATO changes?
Deterrence, which is the most important factor in a military alliance

>do you also believe that we'll get invaded by Russia or something?
No, so long as you pay into the system as much as we do. Hint: you don't

>>76368476
Ussr doesnt even exist anymore you utter fucking brainlet.

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War in the Eastern/Northern Europe?

Definitely not the wettest dream of the US

>>76368552
>in the last century
KYS

>>76368429
>The EU's economy far dwarfs yours
Huh? EU's combined GDP is way larger than Russias. It's the largest in the world, in fact.

>>76368604
Nevermind, I'm retarded

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>>76368562
I dream of nuclear fire

>>76368604
Even after the UK left?

>>76368574
ussr still doesnt exist. fuck off fatposter

We should join NATO for peace(through superior firepower)

>>76368476
As expected the shit for brains goes for "let me tell you about your country"

What do i win?

Well let's get into this so you can fuck off and i can go to sleep ok?

First of all, We're the only European country keeping friendly open diplomatic tabs to Russia atm and we have 50 years of beneficial relations and trade behind us.

There's nothing of strategical value in here, just a big reserve of people ready to defend themselves.

I guess that about does it. Anything more..umm yeah, Fuck Usa and fuck nato and hope all americans suffer a painful slow death, ciao!

>>76368604
Yes, which means that, if the EU were to integrate a military command, Russia would not be an issue. The primary opposition to EU military was the UK, but now they're out due to Article 50.

By all means, if the EU were to form a military, fucking go for it. That means the USA can spend less of its GDP on subsidizing European defense, which means we can finally get goddamn single payer healthcare and such. The Marshall Plan was only for when Europe was bombed and desolate and communism posed a risk, not in modern times.

>>76368539
>>proof?
>Bankrolling a French political party.
did you read what I wrote? The bank was a private bank.

>>do you also believe that we'll get invaded by Russia or something?
>No, so long as you pay into the system as much as we do. Hint: you don't

you think Russia would like to get on a nuclear war?
and even if we get attacked ,all the EU comes

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>>76368659
>>76368604
where the fuck are you guys getting your information

U.S. GDP is nearly 20 trillion, while EU is about 17 trillion

>>76368690
>First of all, We're the only European country keeping friendly open diplomatic tabs to Russia atm and we have 50 years of beneficial relations and trade behind us.
cuck

>>76368707
Why the fuck was a French politician getting funded by a Russian private bank tho? I'm not someone that really care who funds politicians but that even raised a red flag for me. It's shady as hell, even if it wasn't from the Kremlin.

>>76368604
Italy's GDP alone is larger than Russia's. Russia is a paper tiger, the only thing they have is nukes.

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>>76368750
>C..c..cuck

Fuck... You americans really are the cream of the crop when it comes to intellectual incapability and shortcomings in political conversations.

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>>76368703
>That means the USA can spend less of its GDP on subsidizing European defense, which means we can finally get goddamn single payer healthcare and such.

>thinking that's why you guys have shite healthcare

Your population are brainwashed kikeslaves that doesn't know whats good for them to a larger extent than even Swedes. You'd probably just spend more money on foreign """""""""""""""aid"""""""""""""""". You'd have people rioting in the streets against healthcare

>>76368750
>cuck
as opposed to letting foreign soldiers build foreign military bases in your country? lol nato is the true thinking man's coalition here if any.

>>76368778
No one wanted to give her money in France.

You have to know the background of her family and her party to understand. She's seen as "literally Hitler" even if her party changed a lot from what it was before she kicked her father out of it.
No one wanted to be "the bank that funds Hitler"

>>76368750
top tier argument hahaha

>>76368707
>The bank was a private bank.
And? If one private American citizen were bankrolling an entire politican faction in another country, that's cause for concern. And believe me, we did that to South America already.

>and even if we get attacked ,all the EU comes
Didn't happen to Ukraine. And Ukraine wasn't part of NATO. See the pattern? Russia preys on the weak, just like all great powers do (including us)

>>76368842
You're literally Russia's Canada. I don't even need to pay attention to you because you're so insignificiant.

>nokia nokia mammi
Yeah yeah, go spout your drunken rabble elsewhere.

>>76368846
No, that's literally why we don't have more services. 4% of 18 trillion is 720 billion. Half of that is our NATO obligation. Slice that in half and $360 billion USD is enough to buffet our health system.

But you eurocucks can't even defend yourselves against your historic threat. Pathetic.

>>76368778
Why American non-profit organizations fund politicians from all over the world?

>>76368987
>You're literally Russia's Canada. I don't even need to pay attention to you because you're so insignificiant.


Canada has extensive defensive doctrines against US and military experience against it?

I mean everything you say just backfires your points back 10 steps. Just stop talking please, i wanna keep some faith in americans.

>>76368846
Yeah he's retarded. Our healthcare system is a giant corrupt mess beyond repair. We spend way more on healthcare than anyone else because all the big corporations involved shuffle papers around jacking each other off to point where we have shit like $15 for a single tablet of Tylenol.

>>76369063
>Canada has extensive defensive doctrines against US and military experience against it?
They do you fucking retard. In the war of 1812 the USA invaded Canada while Britain was distracted with the Napoleonic Wars. We intended to annex Ontario at the least, and failed.

So yes, Canada does have defensive doctrines against the USA. Learn some history before making dumb posts you fairy.

>>76368987
>But you eurocucks can't even defend yourselves against your historic threat
Are you really retarded enough to think Russia is a legitimate threat to the EU?

>>76368929
That doesn't mean it's okay to get funds from a foreign country. And if she absolutely had to, there is hell of a lot of better organizations than a fucking Russian bank. I personally don't know anything about the bank that funded her. But she should've known that getting funding from anything related to Russia even remotely would be political suicide.

>>76369020
Because capitalism.

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>>76368987
You already spend this much on healthcare ($1 trillion) to the aforementioned shite results. Even if you spent the entire NATO budget($360 Billion) on healthcare(you won't) you wouldn't achieve single-payer, you'd have to revamp the whole system.

this murican is like shifting through time and space somewhere between 1964 and 1900s

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>>76369177
Where is your nuclear arsenal on this graph? I can't see it.

>>76369237
Medicare is not single payer.

>>76369277
Yes?

>>76369248
Who the actual fuck made this map? Italy is not only in a nuclear alliance, but the U.S. also stores nukes in that country

>>76369244
>Crimea is annexed by Russia
"lol whoops it couldn't possibly be acting on the geopolitical impulses of Russia dating back to the Russian Empire"

This is why you're irrelevant on the global stage.

>>76369248
>implying Putin, or anyone else for that matter, is dumb enough to use nukes

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>>76369248
>Israel
>80
Kek it's in the 400s maybe even 1000s by now

>>76369334
>implying Crimea is not Russia

learn some history

>>76369353
They don't have the resources for that many nukes lad.

>>76369334
More like they felt threatened by the encroaching NATO and seized one of their only remaining warm water ports before Ukraine shifted allegiances like the rest . Russia's actions are all rational moves by a defensively minded state.

>>76369408
>we need a warm water port
>oh that spot looks good
>it's ours
Not how history works. Ukraine is not Russia, not since 1990.

>>76367990
Jesus christ, finally

>>76369334
crimea was inhabited by russian speakers and it was annexed on those grounds. finland is in no way comparable to crimea.

>>76369408
>>76369430
+1 ruble has been added to your account

>>76367570
>flag

>>76369430
>before Ukraine shifted allegiances like the rest .
I wonder why you Russian shill.


>>76369465
>finland is in no way comparable to crimea.
and yet they invaded you all the same in the Winter War, go figure

>>76369237
>the entire Apollo program was 140 billion dollars (2015) over a period of 11 years
>the defense budget just for 2015 was almost 640 billion, total buget almost 4 trillion

>>76369505
>and yet they invaded you all the same in the Winter War, go figure
no they didn't

>>76369430
>More like they felt threatened by the encroaching NATO
NATO is a defensive alliance, so by its nature it is not "encroaching." If you view it as "encroaching," you are planning to attack it.

Nothing I love more than working to protect lazy Eurotrash

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>>76369505
>>76369472
>american argumentation technique
>"lol jus call him a shill bro"

I'm done dasvidaniya, retard

>>76369584
>Ukraine belongs to Russia
You're either a shill or you're a time traveler from 1989.

>>76369472
I hate Putin, but keep telling me I'm some kind of Russian shill, I find that mildly amusing.

My opinion of the current Russian government doesn't change history.

>>76369578
You should have given us representation in parliament

Associating with continental europe was a terrible mistake on our part

>>76369546
Oh really?

>>76369556
To be fair Russia has been doing that since the days of WARSAW

>>76369584
You're defending an illegal action by a foreign government, what the fuck am I supposed to call it?

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>>76369420
>have internationals Jewish colonies like America as well as previously south africa
>they don't have the resources

>The CIA believed that the number of Israeli nuclear weapons stayed from 10 to 20 from 1974 until the early 1980s.[28] Vanunu's information in October 1986 said that based on a reactor operating at 150 megawatts and a production of 40 kg of plutonium per year, Israel had 100 to 200 nuclear devices. Vanunu revealed that between 1980 and 1986 Israel attained the ability to build thermonuclear weapons.[80] By the mid 2000s estimates of Israel's arsenal ranged from 75 to 400 nuclear warheads.[28][81]
>2014– "300 or more" nuclear weapons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israel#Stockpile


Their nuclear capabilities are stolen from America and their nuclear facilities are 1:1 copies of American nuclear facilities.

>>76369668
>To be fair Russia has been doing that since the days of WARSAW
I don't fault the Warsaw Pact. What Russia should have done in 1990, however, was join NATO.

>>76369668
yeah russian federation didnt exist yet in 1939
>>76369505
Usa was quite literally in an alliance with ussr, an aggressor in winter war, at the end of ww2 so by your very own logic we are doing the right thing not entrusting our defenses on either nato or russia

>>76369668
Your country has the world record in "illegal acts", you hypocrite.
Also, I wonder how you would react if there was a foreign-sponsored coup in Canada to install a government that's openly hostile to you.

>>76369655
Our conduct in the war was a ham-handed mistake, but ultimately you wanted to leave far more than we wanted you to.

>>76369760
>Usa was quite literally in an alliance with ussr, an aggressor in winter war, at the end of ww2 so by your very own logic we are doing the right thing not entrusting our defenses on either nato or russia

USA entered WW2 in 1941.
Winter War occurred between November 1939 and March 1940.

So no.

>>76369607
>>76369668
>actually inferring strawmen, arguments I never made

I argued that Russia is acting rationally not aggressively to defend its interests in the protection of its own nation. I agree what they are doing is illegal but rational, like the apartheid Israel imposes on Palestinians it's a defensive measure to protect their existence. I don't view it as hostile in a greater sense though, image china controlled the pacific and south America nearing ever closer and you seized back Panama. (not sure if this is a good analogy, hope you understand anyway)

>>76369684
75-400 that's a huge differential

Not to mention that Israel has to hide their nukes because they know it's a breach of international law for them to have them.

Also your a complete retard if you think the U.S. would actually fund Israels nuclear program. That is in no way whatsoever in this nations interests, and also why the hell would they still be hiding their nukes if they were backed by the strongest superpower in history?

>>76369726
America told Russia to fuck off when Gorbachev asked to join in the 1990's tbqh

>>76369770
>your country has the world record in "illegal acts"
this has to be bait

Also if that happened it would result in the same situation that resulted with Cuba.

>>76369818
I did misunderstand actually. Sorry m8

>>76369818
>I argued that Russia is acting rationally not aggressively to defend its interests in the protection of its own nation
Invading a sovereign country for selfish reasons (a warm water port) is not a rational action, not in the international context. That is why I'm giving you shit

Yes Crimea has been part of Russian history since what, the 1850s? And when Ukraine was given a chance to separate from Russia, it did with lightning speed. That should tell you something.

>>76369795
you allied with our an aggressor end of story

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I'm good, thank you.

>>76369884
>Invading a sovereign country for selfish reasons (a warm water port) is not a rational action, not in the international context. That is why I'm giving you shit

If we were viewing countries doing this as the second coming of Hitlers Germany (prepare for an invasion of Poland!!1), USA would be first on the chopping block.

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>>76369908
So did you

>>76369872
You do not give a damn about international law unless it suits you interests. Or are you trying to tell me that, for example, the invasion of Iraq was in any way legitimate under international law?

>>76369908
>ally with USSR
>aggressor of Finland

>ally with Nazi Germany
>aggressor of Finland

hmm

>>76369991
I'm not trying to defend that. Or say the U.S. has never broken international law, practically every country has at some point.

But we don't hold the record.

>>76369974
>If we were viewing countries doing this as the second coming of Hitlers Germany (prepare for an invasion of Poland!!1), USA would be first on the chopping block.
We have 2 oceans, why the fuck would we need warm water ports?

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>international law

the biggest meme on this board tbqh
we operate under thinly veiled "might makes right"-doctrine

>>76369970
>Sealand part of Sweden
hmm...

>>76369974
it can't be a world war if the person who starts it isn't Austrian dummy.

>>76370086
>might makes right
>abstain from NATO, the biggest military faction
Good laff

>>76368476
Thing with Ukraine is really, really controversial. Yes, we sponsored separatists and made Crymea vote. Crymea voted for entering Russia, so we secured it.
The problem with Ukraine was coup. Coup BTFO'ed corrupt scum, that's awesome, but with coup there was a rise of nationalism in Ukraine. They began forcing shit like
>>all tv without russian
>>Pravii Sektor is not fucked when they do shit
>>you can't teach russian in schools (ukr kids was learning it before, I myself understand ukrainian because of heritage, but most russians understand it 50\50)
I, myself, think that we just needed Lavrov go to Ukrainian government and bribe Crymea out with moves like forgiving a gas debts if they have any or making OIL SALE.
Because Crymea has tons of russians and tatars who could get fucked up, they voted.
Anyway, american speaking about invasions is fucking comedy gold. Also, most of us don't really think of european countries as enemies, if NATO wouldn't march around our borders, this shit would be chill as fuck.

>>76370051
Breaking international law you knob, do you have the reading comprehension of larvae?

>>76370028
>But we don't hold the record.

Maybe not, but you're one of the worst offenders for sure. So you're in no position to talk shit about others.

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>>76369872
>>76369872
>it's the stereotypical american from the last 2 threads
Obama had released a classified document on how certain administrations helped Israel's nuclear program
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.715741
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/193175
https://www.archives.gov/files/declassification/iscap/pdf/2009-076-doc1.pdf

Not to mention that making their nukes public would mean they would have to sign the NPA on nuclear weapons and Iran would get a legitimate legally backed reason to build nukes

Why are Americans defending NATO? Seems to me it's just a money sink that they get nothing out of. They could've used all that money on the space program or universal healthcare, you know actualy important stuff.

Also the American president doesn't seem to like NATO

>>76370138
If you truly cared about international law you would be raising a fuss about Crimea, which you aren't.

>>76370137
I certainly don't think Ukraine is innocent in its dealings with Russia, especially as it relates to the energy pipeline, but military action is too much. It reminds me of United Fruit Company and how the USA invaded South American countries for fruits and vegetables. Hard to believe, I know, but it happened.

>>76370215
>it's just a money sink that they get nothing out of.

you're not wrong

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>>76369991
he's a retarded literal american bear sterotype

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>>76370115
>not selling goods to both sides while they spend their blood and shekels

heh, we came out great in ww2 why fix it if it aint broke

>>76370215
>Why are Americans defending NATO?
Because the EU isn't prepared to protect itself against Russia. I have no qualms with diverting our military budget to social welfare, but it's predicated on EU+NATO countries diverting their social welfare budget to military

I don't have high hopes.

>>76370271
>he doesn't realize that was our strategy too, until Japan kamikaze'd Hawaii

>>76370215
Minute NATO is gone, enjoy your Chinese/Russian world

>>76370349
>Russia
a country with the gdp of Italy, good joke
>China
a country so afraid of its own people it brings out tanks, good joke

global power dynamics will be more balanced, and it might be a good thing

>>76370349
50% of the world is not on NATO or Chinese satellite states and we've had no problems yet. If anything the chinks have decided to bank roll a few nuclear plants, hydroelectric dams and a space control/observatory here

>>76370452
GDP is not a 1:1 ratio for military potency. Russia has over 7000 ICBMs, Italy has nothing. Russia has a military with recent conflict experience, Italy has experience in being unemployed and living in their momma's house at age 31.

That is why, despite North Korea being a depressing shithole, it has a Sparta-tier level of military threat that far outpunches its weight class.

>>76370452
Yeah, I would definitely prefer a world where a free, developed Western society has less power and a soulless gook bloc has a say in our affairs instead. Fuck off

>>76370573
Right but MAD would still be in place America global hegemony or no, don't see Russia rising it all.
>>76370590
>racism
>soulless yellow peril eme
Eyyy go back to /pol/ with your race biology arguments

>>76370349
Lol, why would Russia invade countries, when we can sit there and sell our gas\oil\wood\bread\other shit? We don't need war with developed countries, because they will react. What is much more possible
>nato gone
>we need southern ports
>we go Turkey because of Dardanell\Bosphor
Maybe some allegiance with eastern europe to get Moscow safer.

>>76370692
Not worth dignifying
>>76370824
>we need southern ports
>Maybe some allegiance with eastern europe to get Moscow safer
Mm yes it's almost like that's exactly what's been happening lately, isn't it...

>>76370824
>Lol, why would Russia invade countries
you tell me, why do you need Crimea other than a warm water port?

Turkey is part of NATO.

>>76370824
>why would Russia invade countries

This. Like the USA, they avoid starting shit with anyone remotely capable of fighting back. And that's perfectly rational, because the costs would far outweigh the benefits

>>76371018
Well, main difference is that if we start fight with someone who's capable and not beat the crap out of them, we'll lose all the shit because we're not separated by ocean from anyone.
>>76370909
Read the greentext and read the post which I was answering, please. Also, read >>76370137
This was also major point. We even gave quotas in a lot of universities for Crymeans, invested a shitton money and etc.
>>76370907
Allegiance isn't really a case, and that's one of many fuckups of our international politics.