The American Dream

>>76181024
Because the american dream was about everyone being able to be successful through hard work and that the us was if not the only then at the very least the best nation to provide that chance. It is part of the american exceptionalism.

>>76182223
But that is bullshit and demonstrably so. Many people in the US work multiple minimum wage jobs and are still shit poor.

>>76181024
>Did the American Dream ever really exist

Yes. A lot of people from Europe who went to America ended up succesful and happy because they weren't hindered by the baggage of their own countries.

>>76182454
I suspect that's because America has infinite space plus waves of immigration to take up the shitty jobs then move up the socio-economic ladder.

>>76182437
they're not working hard enough lol

>>76181024
Most American's are lazy as fuck. If you are a smart, first generation immigrant then you are more likely to be successful than the average native born child.
The American Dream isn't that everyone gets a nice house an a car. The American Dream is that if you are extremely intelligent, good looking, and work your ass off then you will succeed.

>>76181024
American dream died in 1960 when the American cultural revolution happened. Blame hippies.

>>76182964
I blame the commies.

>>76182964
>>76183072
it never existed, it was a lie made up by corporations to get people to buy more shit

>>76182828
>succede through hard work and intelligence
Shouldn't that be everyone's ideal?

It existed of course.
But always, those who went up did everything they can to keep those at bottom there forever.
So it become like any other country.

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>>76181024
Most white guys back then made more money (adjusted for inflation) then anyone today, so many more of then could afford living in a comfy white picket fence neighborhood with a wifey and kids.

It was unique for America because a lot of americans believed it was something akin to a promised land, God's country. After all, we were the biggest democratic contributor to the cold war and helped liberate europe from the oppression of krauts. Because of our role in what was comminly viewed as evil and godlessness, we were like God's agents on earth.

This mentality is behind the logic of Reagan and neo-cons who want America to be a glorious haven for Christians and the world to be liberated in the name of the USA

>>76183133
Proof?

>>76183172
Notice how most pictures of the "American Dream" are usually from Ads.

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>>76182454
>>76182575
The WASPS (white anglo saxon protestants) weren't too fond of europeans or asians coming along taking american jobs, especially if they weren't protestant
>>76182644
Typical german answer
>>76182828
The american dream isn't really alive, except in the eyes of the boomers
>>76183133
It existed, and it was also state-sponsored as well as corporate-sponsored. They went hand-in-hand.
>>76183238
Or propaganda posters. The one on right doesn't mention it specifically but the idea is there

>>76182437

that's today's condition
it used to be different

>>76183377
trump will make america great again! xD
just keep voting for tax cuts for billionaires

>>76182437
>poor people are shit with money management

>>76183133
Dubs.

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>>76183072
>>76182964
Blame the Vietnam War and the journalism in it.

Thanks to the extensive journalism of it, americans got a close view of how bloody and cruel the vietnam war was. Countless american soldiers were slain, and not to mention the atrocities like my lai.

For that reason, a lot of the youth and others, fueled also by the black rights movement, came to look at the american dream with serious doubt and rejected the ideals that they were seemingly force fed.

This poster gives you a good idea of how they felt. Nixon's whole Watergate scandal was the last nail on the coffin for the ideal. People became very cynical and skeptical of everything the american government and corporations pushed on them

>>76183170
Any average person* today I meant

>>76183667
>People became very cynical and skeptical of everything the american government and corporations pushed on them

they still approved of the iraq war and other interventionist policies around the globe

I'm living the American dream. My life is bitchin'

>>76183478
All that accumulated wealth will trickle down any day now

>>76182437
They could be rich but poor people are notoriously bad at spending away all of their savings on stupid shit

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>>76183725
The iraq war began in 2003. I'm talking about the 70s here. Generational views are based on what events happen in their time. Thanks to 9/11, support for the iraq war was kinda popular at the time (although now it isn't because we know bush lied about WMDs)

>>76183911
60 million Americans need food stamps, e. g. they have less than they need and nothing to save

The american dream was for those who had nothing to inherit back in Europe. For those who had to start from 0 fro one reason or another. The dream was that america gave them the best chance for that.
What changed is that Americans are now the same as the Europeans they escaped. Rich inheritors.

>>76183982
Thats because they decided to have kids before establishing a career

>>76183667
Nice American communist poster.

>>76183976
okay, get it. here, americans are perceived as being highly irrational and jingoist. not only in matters of war, but the reality that americans are ready to pay horrifying sums for health care and education, is attributed to their optimist irrationality here.

>>76184083
it's about (hidden) un- and underemployment.

>>76184183
>lemme tell you about my country
Seriously it's because people are really shit with finances and taking opportunities to make more money. A lot of people think they can have kids without landing a middle class job and then they are surprised when they can't afford essentials for their kid. Then I have to pick up the slack for them through taxes because of their shitty decision to not get a decent income. It's not like germany where people are told where they go by testing (dummschule, gymnasium). Literally ANYBODY can go to community college and make a decent living.

>>76184318
>Literally ANYBODY can go to community college and make a decent living.
afaik, even community colleges cost money?

>>76184136
I think that's a pretty common view for people outside america. A lot of people here feel similarly and that is behind a lot of liberalism in america

>>76184362
Yes but the state grants everybody the right to take out student loans. Its not that expensive compared to Universities. Community college costs somewhere around 6-10k for two years

>>76184362
Some States here have free community college programs and a whole lot of community colleges have local free-tuition programs for young people right out of high school

>>76181024
Gonna say the 1940-1975 period was the peak of social mobility and widespread economic/technological advancement.

Shame the semites had to fuck it up for everyone with their wars and oil embargos.

t. American

>>76184432
>>76184479
m'kay. i always imagined the USA to be sort of a perfect market economy, where, if you can't afford things, you can't afford them and that's your problem.

we have somewhat lower purchasing power than you, but we are guaranteed basic civilization.

>>76183158
Most people aren't intelligent and don't work hard because they are addicted to shit by the consumerist culture. American culture is toxic and the products pushed on the American consumer erode the characteristics and virtues that make the American dream possible.
The reason immigrants are so successful is because they have some cultural heritage that protects them from the worst. Unfortunately this is broken through in a few generations.

>>76184533
Its not that hard to make a living here at all. But it's not handed to you. You have to put in some effort and thats the way it should be. It's not fair to put the hard working people in a position where they have to support the lazy

>>76184622
right. but the fact that wages in the USA were stagnant for decades is kinda depressing and contradicts the american dream (work harder -> get more).

>>76184494
>JEWS are behind literally every bad thing that ever happens
haha

>>76183170
Mushishi Zoku saved many dreams and lives.

>>76183170
>Most white guys back then made more money (adjusted for inflation) then anyone today,

and what happened afterwards?

>>76184666
wages aren't an issue unless you are working for minimum wage. Middle class make much more money than they need to pay for the essentials.
Minimum wage was never made to live on. It's something that young people work at while they high school and college. Older people working at minimum wage chose to be in that situation

>>76184775
What do you mean?

The people that made the money settled down and had kids even earlier than people today usually do

>>76184868
no, i mean, why did real wages fall?

>>76184786

I've heard that the application process for US companies is extremely tedious. There's a constant surplus of workers in the US and they're not really interested in hiring anyone.

>>76184904
A lot of reasons that you'd need to ask an economics professor to know

>>76183170
That's bullshit and you know it. We have just as much purchasing power today than we did in the 60's. The difference being that we buy a lot more cheap items today than we did back then. Back then people bought few items that lasted a long time so their consumer expenses were much much smaller. Today we buy new tech every few years, we buy much more food, today we waste much much more on sources of entertainment. The jobs back then that made a man support a household of four still exist, just in different places. They went from manufacturing jobs to specialized jobs that require a further education

>>76184952
there are countless explanations, such as neoliberal economic reforms, decline of unions, automatization, globalization and whatnot ... no clue what's the actual cause.

>>76184786
>chose to be in that situation
What if they have retardation or schizophrenia?

>>76184949
They don't hire people with the proper prerequisites. People think they can apply for the programming job that requires past experience fresh out of college instead of taking the entry level programmer job that pays less.

>>76184136
We are, on average, unironically stupid and driven by temporary emotion. Intelligent political actors can manipulate enough of us to support even the most obviously evil policies. NSA, Patriot Act, wiretapping, "enhanced" interrogation, wars over supposed WMDs, and a massive police state. The amount of civil liberty in the USA today is probably the lowest since WW2.

I had an apt conversation though with two german girls in Porto earlier this year.
We were discussing Trump since I could tell that topic was on their minds the entire time. I explained that populist or anti-democracy policies are very popular in the USA when emotions and talented oration go together.
The girls offhandedly responded that "hahaha we just don't understand why. That would never happen in Germany."

Let me just say that I had about a minute of suppressed inner laughter after they said that.

People forget easily.

>>76185039
there supposedly aren't many entry level positions. and those that exist are filled by indians.

i'm probably reciting stereotypes, but that's what i've heard. many millenials struggle to enter the job market.

>>76184961
>With a median household income of $40,581, millennials earn 20 percent less than boomers did at the same stage of life, despite being better educated, according to a new analysis of Federal Reserve data by the advocacy group Young Invincibles.

>>76185037
The state supports those kind of people. But the US doesn't have 60 million mentally ill people. A lot of those people are just lazy and are taking in the welfare instead of working. Then they complain that welfare is barely enough to survive off of. It's not made to be comfortable, it's the bare minimum

>>76184672
Semites = Jews and Arabs

And yes, that is an objective fact. The middle east went to hell in the 70's and oil embargos ruined Western economies for two decades until we began deepthroating Saudi cock.

>>76185101
They exist. They just won't be handed to you. You have to search for them.

>>76185066
you're right in that we (the germans) are no better by nature. but in the state we are in now, we would never fall for someone like trump. the political culture here is far more intellectual, utilitarian, rational. they're right in this regard.

>>76185164
>and oil embargos ruined Western economies for two decades
how so, if
a.) many european countries weren't targeted by the sanctions in the first place
and b.) we get our oil from russia nowadays (no clue how it was back then)

>>76185192
youth unemployment in the USA is still far higher than in germany.

>>76183982
You'd be amazed how many of those people on food stamps either
a) just don't want to work and are content with riding the welfare system
or
b) make money under the table either through undocumented employment or drug distribution/similar criminal enterprise (both of which are obviously untaxed and also can't be proven on paper)

So this is something I noticed a ton of when I worked at a house down the street from one of my city's housing projects last week. The housing is complete shit, obviously, but there are an amazing amount of people living in it driving late model luxury vehicles. Cadillac, BMW coupes, Benz coupes, etc. I saw a LOT of guys walk out of the projects wearing high dollar name brand clothes, fresh Jordans, gold chains etc. and getting into lets say a late model CL65 or a newer BMW 5 series.

What they're probably doing is actually making great money illegally, then applying for welfare benefits (food stamps, housing, shit they'll even pay for your cell phone and heat) because on paper they don't make any money. They're clearly not broke, they're pretending to be broke because the state of our current welfare system allows them to get away with it indefinitely as long as the government can't find a documented and taxed income record on them. Its bullshit but it works for them.

>>76183911
>>76184083

This. Outside of a handful of people who genuinely were victims of circumstance, all of the poor people I know are poor simply because they're fucking stupid.

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>>76185128
Sorry you corrected me I forgot about the increasing wealth inequality in america. This is true the middle class is indeed getting poorer. But for now it's still quite livable. It will keep getting worse though if we don't do something about the super rich and their share of the wealth.

>>76185134
Yeah you're wrong.

We finally got back to full employment over a decade later. April 2007-May 2017
Some people have searched that entire time and not found a job because we were not at full employment.

>Hurdur just work harder or for less
There were NO jobs for some people. None. Did you forget 2008-2014? 8% unemployment average.

>>76185362
>if we don't do something about the super rich and their share of the wealth.

Like voting shady real estate speculators into the office?

>>76185306
3.9% vs 4.7%.
You are doing very well but it's not because of our system that we have a higher unemployment rate.
We could be like France with a 9.6% unemployment rate.
Our unemployment rate is healthy, it's just that yours is extremely healthy

>>76185195
I agree

Their grandparents would've laughed like me though
Arrogance is a well-known Germanic trait.

>>76185258
Eurozone real per capita income in 1993 was the same as in 1973.

>>76185362
>if we don't do something about the super rich and their share of the wealth.
I have a feeling that will never happen.

>>76185453
i don't think that an economically healthy society would bear candidates like trump and sanders. there's a lot of discontent going around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnkEFBrhfFE´


It did. It was great for the Irish and the Italians for example.

>>76185515
There wasn't even a Eurozone at that time ... ?

At least in Germany, incomes increased greatly during that period, you could literally feel your income increase each year.

>>76185441
That's big money talking not the voters. In order to win elections in the US you must have more money than your opponent. This needs to be reformed

>>76185629

Sanders wasn't big money talking. Should have elected him.

>>76185515
well, now you have your own literally hitler.

>>76185553
You don't need to have a bad economy to give way to populist candidates.
As long as the media beats the drum of the supposed discontents long enough you can make public opinion go sour in any economy.

Even in Britain where the economy is doing actually really well despite the looming Brexit the left-wingers won't stop talking about how the supposed austerity (i.e. not going full deficit-spending Keynesian) of the conservatives ruins everything

>>76185732
well no, many brits suffered a lot under the post-2008 austerity and constantly increasing housing prices -- especially the provinces. a lot of this scarcity was blamed onto immigration.

also: the uk is actually the single economy that had declining wages despite economic growth i've heard of for several years.

>>76185195
so how are those rapefugees working out for you

>>76185553
That is a problem that is very complicated.
There a quite a few reasons not just economical
Sadly a lot of it has to do with socio traditionalism vs modernism. Homogeneous vs multicultural and progressive vs conserverative

Economically though we do have some friction because of wealth inequality. As the middle class get poorer they feel more resent towards paying taxes for welfare. Trump is very much against taxing for welfare. On the other hand the poor are thrown into poverty from the super rich and they want to tax the super rich to balance the inequality (socialism) Bernie Sander's main policy was to have a grassroots movement (The poor majority) and tax the super rich heavily to artificially raise the poor out of poverty. Both sides hate each other and the middle class can't see that the super rich are the issue rather than the poor "free loaders" that want more support from state welfare

>>76185937
i wouldn't call what they're doing "working", but it's an interesting experience to be the only white man in a bus. you should be familiar with this feeling already.

>>76185685
Sanders was an absolute fucktard who had no conception of a budget and represented our fledgling revolutionaries who are heavily involved with inciting violence over merely perceived injustice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V1g-lDc6_E


I wish I was around when America was mostly white

>>76185627
Can you not comprehend that economists have gone back a few decades to chart the eurozone members progress?

It was called different names in the past, but a de-facto currency union existed before 1999. There were pegs and the Bretton woods system maintained them alongside each central bank.

>>76185515
>WW1 ends
>Wilson begs allies to be nice to poor Germany, American investment rushes in to rebuild Germany in the interwar years
>WW2 ends
>Truman spends millions rebuilding Germany, sends American troops to defend their former enemies
>Soviets block western ground and water access to West Berlin, America risks war with USSR to supply West Berlin entirely by air with four planes landing every minute loaded with food and supplies
>Cold War ends
>Thatcher, Mitterrand, and Gorby all are against German reunification, but Bush convinces them to accept it
>Today
>Germany has the lowest support of the USA out of all EU nations and all NATO countries save Turkey
>American soldiers are on German soil pledged to give up their LIVES for a country that hates them while Germany's leader calls America an unreliable ally
>meanwhile America nuked Japan and dropped more explosives on Vietnam than were used in all of WW2 but they still like America more than Germans do


Why are so many Germans such smug, ungrateful, and arrogant people?

>>76185732
see>>76185964

>>76185988
i don't take the bus because i don't live in a cramped shithole like you, also i rarely interact with brown people.

bullshit your politics are "rational" at least you admit to being arrogant.

>>76185546
Yes until we have a French Aristocracy type revolution

>>76185964
>Sadly a lot of it has to do with socio traditionalism vs modernism. Homogeneous vs multicultural and progressive vs conserverative
identity politics are cancer. as if social culture could be shaped artificially, by electing a politician that signals approval to certain voter groups ...
>rather than the poor "free loaders" that want more support from state welfare
i find that kinda ridiculous, since there isn't even an actual welfare state in the US, in the sense we have it in europe (the state guarantees ALL your basic expenses). here, it's kinda accepted and isn't much of a topic, but in the US, the people keep barking at the tiny so-called welfare state they have.

>>76185629
Trump spent a third of hillary

>>76186018
i would love to see the chart/study that claims this. because many people i know clearly remember that their living standards improved drastically.

now, could you explain how the saudis could single-handedly undermine both the US and europe to this extent? and how we "solved" this problem?

>>76186068
you don't take the bus because there's nothing deserving the name "public transportation" in 80% of the US.

>i rarely interact with brown people
didn't you watch your presidents speeches?

>>76186131
Its sad I know but it's the way things are happening right now. The identity politics has separated too far and belong to two separate american cultures. There is no fixing two different cultures.

>>76186222
He also appealed to the richest portion of the country and the middle class. Hillary appealed to the poor and the minorities. Hillary is also very unlikable as a candidate. Anybody else could have beaten trump

>>76186308
what's amusing is that most prerequisites for these postmodern first world problem debates ("gender", "race", "body politics" ...) originated in france.

so what you call "two different american cultures" is the infestation of the US with postmodern philosophy, albeit on a very superficial level.

>>76186363
afaik, many of trumps (empty) promises to limit imports from china and mexico where clearly targetting the rust belt.

the middle class doesn't care that fruit picker jobs are disappearing.

>>76186400
That clears up quite a bit for me. The divide here can easily be seen as urban vs rural. I think this has to do with cities being more accepting to the postmodern first world debates that you said originated in France. Over time maybe they will be more accepted throughout the entire country

>>76186454
precisely

>>76186224
http://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/nui/show.do?dataset=ilc_di04&lang=en

Use either EU 6 or EU 9

Germany is an exception. The Latin countries and the UK all struggled in this time period. It is the reason the Latin countries first diverged so significantly from the Germanic members. In 1965, all the members were pretty close together.

>>76186643
okay, this is highly interesting. but, again, how did we eventually make energy prices go down again? and why was EVERYONE effected by a single oil embargo?

afaik, latin american countries are heavily disadvantaged by their tropical climate and never had the same potential as north america or europe.

>>76186602
if you're truly interested in postmodernism (you should be, if you live in a world of BLM and tumblr hypersensitivity towards gender/race issues), give these a try

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcSb6VCRoMc

we have that divide in germany as well, but it isn't as gaping.

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>>76186740
The US didn't have an oil reserve before that happened. The world's largest oil market froze when the embargo happened and oil prices reflected that around the world.

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The following message is transmitted at the request of President Jimmy Carter: It's happening. I could have saved you. I tried to warn you but you looked away. You asked for this. You've made your bed, now lie on it. Why didn't you listen? You cannot stop it. It hasn't even begun. It's too late. I told you so. Why did you believe them? Don't call it a grave, it's the future you chose. We are trapped in the belly of this horrible machine and the machine is bleeding to death. It didn't have to end like this. You could have prevented this. You only had to listen. It's happening. It's over.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8npcT1dPEdo&t=1s

>>76184318
So unless you are middle class you dont get to breed? Cool desu

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>>76185195
>intellectual
>The woman heading Germany wants to do trade with a nation that's a national security threat supposedly
>She complains that her country can't rely on the US to punish that threat then she complains when the US proposes new sanctions on such a threat
https://archive.fo/vaoXj
Nah. If anything Germany is the worst culprit of idiots in power seeing that the main three people that have essentially caused the most widespread problems as a whole for Europe were German or from German-speaking lands. Stop having this high and mighty attitude when literally all of Europe's problems can be traced back to you.

>>76187506
You can have kids below middle class but your life will be hard

>>76187786
Not gonna lie, that sounds like a pretty damn shit system and a bunch of "yeah they deserve it for not doing this laundry list of things that aren't as easilt obtainable as people would want to think".

>>76187884
Well in exchange you get to own guns and have personal opinions. There are tradeoffs

>>76187157
Based Jimmy Carter.