Are Russians going to finally start questioning their own elections/government

>>75758642
this image is pretty stupid
in the colum "What we don't know" they put "1.There's no indication that the cyberattacks had any effect on the outcome of the election".

What does that even mean.
They don't know that there's no indication that the cyberattacks had any effect on the outcome of the election ?
They don't know if the NSA isn't sure that if any officials at local level were infected with the russian malware ?

You should "start questionning" your own newspapers for publishing this shit.

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>NSA report did not describe the methodology they used to arrive at their conclusions
Sad!

>>75759035
They mean that Russia didn't change the actual vote tallies.

>>75759103
It's almost like it was an internal report about an ongoing investigation. The intended audience knows the methods.

>>75758642
Do any of you really believe in Russian hackers?

>>75759819
Putin himself said it could have been patriotic Russians...

>>75759819
t. Hackerman

>>75758642
>start
NIgga do you really think Russians are just oblivious to this shit the whole time?
> now that we know, mostly, what Russia did in our election
kek. Proofs?
>questioning their own elections
What's the premise here?
Why would they start questioning because "you got hacked"

>>75760099
>Putin himself said it could have been patriotic Russians...
Putin said it could be anyone. Also provide source please

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>>75758642
>We know
American media is meme tier at this point.

>>75760822
Just like those soldiers in Ukraine could have gotten their Russian military equipment from anywhere?

And yes, look at Putin's approval rating. Russians are very brainwashed.

Wait, if they had conclusive evidence of this, don't you think it would have made more sense to come out with it before Election Day? Derp.

>>75761220
>Just like those soldiers in Ukraine could have gotten their Russian military equipment from anywhere?
The difference is there is literally no proof the DNC hack was done by Russia. And again I doubt he ever said what you claim.
>And yes, look at Putin's approval rating.
What the fuck does that have to do with Putin?
Whether it's Putin or someone else there will still be the same corruption if not more. The difference is that Putin is pretty much the best leader Russia has had in more than half a century.

>>75761337
Uh, they did warn us. The investigation was not over yet. This report is from early May. You can't release the details of an ongoing investigation before it's over.

>>75761366
We're not talking about the DNC right now. It's not relevant at all. This leak is completely separate from the DNC.

I hate to break it to you but the rest of the world actually thinks the idea of Russia hacking Yankee elections is funny

Impeachment and resignation aside are there any other ways to get rid of drumphy

>>75761474
25th amendment.

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>>75761366
>Putin is pretty much the best leader Russia has had in more than a century

>>75761366
>The difference is that Putin is pretty much the best leader Russia has had in more than half a century
That makes no sense. The Russian people are in a far worse position now than they were just a couple of years ago, and that's a direct result of Putin's foreign policy.

>>75758642
>"WHAT WE KNOW"
>"One of our shaddy agencies believes that..."

>>75761398
>We're not talking about the DNC right now
Then you're talking shit. Clearly Russia didnt hack your election.
By the way US intelligence is trying its damnest right now to make Navalny president which would significantly weaken Russia through means that are a thousand times more aggressive than anything you accuse Russia of doing.
>>75761506
>implying
>>75761606
>The Russian people are in a far worse position now than they were just a couple of years ago
A couple of years ago he was still in power. And a couple of years before that too. Russia has improved significantly overall during his presidency either way you put it.

>>75761703
He destroyed basically everything that Eltsin created and only made everything worse. I would recommend you to live here for a month and feel how good he really is. He is ignores all internal problem and only want to banter americans. He is the worst thing that happened to this country since first chechen war

>>75761782
>He destroyed basically everything that Eltsin created
Yeltsin created literally nothing and was drunken sellout. Russian military economy infrastructure and global influence has increase significantly since that inept fuck.
And I have lived there

>>75761703
Well someone tried to put malware on the computers that maintain our voter rolls. If not Russia, who?

>>75761850
>If not Russia, who?
Literally anybody.
Israel. American intelligence. Special interest groups. Soros. You name it.
Why are you so fixated on >muhhh Russia?

>>75761825
Are you retarded? Google how much he reformed the country and the only good thing putin did is tax reform. If not high oil prices he would destroyed the country because of his incompetence. He literally destroyed all production in my city. Maybe you lived in the middle of Moscow and think the whole russia is like that. The country is literally dying because of him. If you are not a government worker/policeman/military worker you salary will be about €400

>>75761978
Because all of our intelligence agencies agree it was Russia, Russia has a clear motive in trying to prevent Hillary from taking office, Trump is oddly pro Russia (criticizing NATO), and there's no signs it was anyone else. So until you have evidence it was someone else, I'm going to lean towards agreeing with the IC.

>>75761703
>A couple of years ago he was still in power. And a couple of years before that too. Russia has improved significantly overall during his presidency either way you put it.
Russia has improved significantly less than of what was expected because of Putin's actions. The entire world has overall improved during the last 70 years but Russia's rate of recovery has during the last years gone to a grinding halt. It won't be long until people in countries like Pakistan and India will enjoy higher living standard than many Russian.

>>75761825
>Russian military economy infrastructure
Not a good thing. It's the Russian people who are paying for it and they're not getting anything in return.
>Global influence has increase significantly
No it hasn't. Russia has not gained any more influence. Russia has lost influence. Do you think you can just fuck with UN, US, and EU and just get away with it? Consider the sanctions and the animosity the actions of the Russian government have caused.

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Mission accomplished

t. Vladimir Putin

>>75762113
>trusting intelligence spooks who lie for a living
K
>>75762181
>Russia has improved significantly less than of what was expected
Kek. And what were you expecting? clearly you dont understand shit about Russia.
>improving military economy and infrastructure is not a good thing
>flag
Hmmm
>Russia has not gained any more influence
Objectively wrong.
> fuck with UN, US, and EU
How has Russia fucked with ANY of those. It's NATO and US that keeps fucking with Russia and even its domestic politics, not the other way around..

>>75762181
The Georgia and Ukraine debacles also guaranteed that nobody is going to be dismantling NATO any time in the next 40 years.

Putin has made Russia completely dependent on oil and gas to live, they don't have any industry anymore.

>>75759819
It's pretty obvious that something happened, lady doth protest too much

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>falling for the russian hackers narrative

>>75762489
>anymore

Are these guys just the Democrat equivalent of birthers?

>>75762549
The two aren't mutually exclusive

>>75762412
>How has Russia fucked with ANY of those. It's NATO and US that keeps fucking with Russia and even its domestic politics, not the other way around.
Somehow I'm not surprised that you're this misinformed, or should I say, disinformed?

If you really believe this stuff then you're completely out of touch with reality.

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>>75762412
When the fuck has NATO been the aggressor against Russia? It's literally a self defense pact. The only time article 5 was triggered was for 9/11.

>>75762590
Not an argument m8.
It seems you're the disinformed one believing the narrative that's being pushed in the media and when I ask you for specifics you cant even put your finger on it.
US has been puishing for a revolution in Russia with Navalny.
How has Russia fucked with the EU or the US?
>inb4 Russian hackers

>>75762568
Ya they kinda are buddy, one is more likely, it's a political tactic, nothing more.

>>75762566
Obama didn't have his transition team meet with the head of sanctioned Kenyan banks etc etc. Nice false equivalence.

>>75759200
I also have yet to see any actual proof that it was a government job from Russia.
Could have been some Polish teens with access to the same damn software for all I know.

>>75762549
>Breitbart

>>75762651
NATO was designed as a military alliance against the USSR and was promised to be disbanded after its dissolution.
It keeps pushing closer and closer to Russian borders and threatens Russias potential for counterattack.
>defensive
Those missile systems could be equipped with nuclear warheads at anytime and nobody would know the diffrence. It is a potential threat to Russia

>>75762745

>>75762443
They asked for it.

>>75762704
No shit. You don't release classified information about an ongoing investigation. It could compromise your sources and methods. Everything we do know, from Congressional hearings, leaks, the White House's own admissions, etc, points to Russia though.

It's kind of funny that you try to shift the blame to a US ally that hates Russia though. What fucking motive does Poland have for trying to help a presidential candidate who hates NATO?

>>75762692
Yeah, they kinda aren't. Clinton exculpating herself for her campaign doesn't in of itself prove anything.

>>75762779
Chill the fuck out my dude.
I wasn't shifting blame. I just threw out the first country that came to mind. What I meant to say is that to my knowledge the software used is open source, and anybody can get their hands on it. The true security threat is that our voting systems are weak to existing open source software.

And I understand they wont release any information on it, stop acting like I'm a moron. I take this shit with a grain of salt because I don't trust intelligence agencies who have a history of being used as political tools.

>>75759819
most malicious traffic comes from russia, ukraine or china
who knows where it came from before those countries though, which is why I think this whole thing is stupid

The real question is, how would Russia benefit from Trump being president? Having a Democrat in the WH would be far more to their advantage since around the world, the phrase "Democrat president" is linked with Neville Chamberlain-style appeasement.

>>75762779
Also there is no evidence to suggest that they changed the result, meaning that they didn't help EITHER candidate to the knowledge of our intelligence agencies.

So sit the fuck down, and take a deep breath.

>>75762850
Trump loathes NATO while Clinton was a tit's hair away from sounding like she wanted to turn Russia into the world's largest nuclear testing grounds.

>>75762850
>how would Russia benefit from Trump being president
You don't follow the news, do you?

>>75762892
>Trump loathes NATO
As far as I know, he merely wants NATO members to pay their mandatory 2% GDP defense spending. The funny part is that the dirt-ass poor Butthurt Belt cunts have no problem meeting quotas while the rich, advanced Western European cunts think it's all a big joke.

>>75762868
There's no evidence they were successful, but there is a lot of evidence that they tried. If Iran had tried to hack into the companies that maintain the voter rolls so that they could micro target political ads in order to try and help a Democratic candidate because they were afraid a Republican would go back on the nuclear deal, but there was no evidence they changed the vote tallies, would you just dismiss it as nothing and forgive Iran for it?

>>75762771
>fund hostile revolutions in both of those countries in Russias sphere of influence
>new regime act aggressively towards Russia and begins ethnic cleansing of pro-Russian regions
>Russia forced to step in
>hurr durr they asked for it
>>75762896
>You don't follow the news, do you?
Btw so far Trump has done NOTHING that benefits Russia and on the contrary has kept to pretty much the same policy as the previous administration. He promised to keep and even increase sanctions, bombed Assads forces once again today, etc.
So this Russia narrative is retarded

>>75762934
That quota is for several years in the future, and NATO allies have been expanding their military budgets to reach that goal by the deadline. Trump made it seem like NATO was leeching off of us on the campaign trail, when that's not true. These countries don't pay us a dime in the first place, and we don't pay them anything either. These quotas are for spending on THEIR OWN militaries.

>>75762966
>Btw so far Trump has done NOTHING that benefits Russia

Promising a major increase in US defense spending and modernization of the nuclear arsenal certainly doesn't seem to be very good news to Russia.

>>75762957
You mean if I was in the position of total leadership, and not just a citizen with a healthy distrust of his government no matter which clown won?
I probably wouldn't take it too lightly. I would first take steps to strengthen security on that front while calling the country out on the international stage AFTER an investigation was finished.
My issue is that they are publicizing this shit with flaky partial information. The whole thing stinks of a political move.

>>75762966
A weaker NATO doesn't benefit Russia?

>>75762786
It tells you something. This is all just politics as usual. There's no definite proof here of anything, and if le evil russians magically hacked the elections, they sure did a poor job of it seeing as how she got, what 3-4 mill more votes?
The democrats are just doing what the republicans were doing in the 90s to bill, they wanted to push to get a special prosector, so that they can dig up some bullshit to hold em to, in Bills case it was the bj.

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>>75762651
Cold war, Georgia, Ukraine

>>75763003

>Trump made it seem like NATO was leeching off of us on the campaign trail

No he didn't. He simply stated one thing as plainly as possible: that those nations were not pulling their own weight.

According to NATO each nation is required to have X number of troops ready for NATO service and spend X amount of money on those troops. Most countries were not.

>>75763032
>The democrats are just doing what the republicans were doing in the 90s to bill, they wanted to push to get a special prosector, so that they can dig up some bullshit to hold em to, in Bills case it was the bj.
Bill Clinton had a lot of real dirt they could have gone after, the sex stuff was meaningless.

>>75763063
>Most countries were not

And the ones who did meet their 2% figure were Poland, Estonia, etc all poor cunts with far less money for defense than Germany et al.

>>75763022
The problem is Trump is too friendly with Russia in the mean time. Part of our leadership does not take this seriously for political reasons.

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Are they seriously unable to protect vital American infrastructure from a bunch of Ivans who get paid in some vodka, fire wood and a bucket of potatos?

Also e-voting is asking for trouble. Use paper.

>>75763063
Lies. That quota is for the 2020s. Those countries are pulling the weight that they are required to carry for now.

>>75763024
A better funded NATO certainly fucking doesnt.

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>>75763033
Yeah, the cold war was America's fault..

>>75763161
It wasn't the Russians' either.

>>75763067
just like the pussy grabbing was meaningless, but shit like that makes a a huge splash in the media, and they know it

>>75763190
Yeah, certainly wasn't their fault for holding half of Germany and a belt of neutral countries that had no umbrage with Russia under a hellish dictatorship for the better part of fifty years. Blow off.

>>75762934
>As far as I know, he merely wants NATO members to pay their mandatory 2% GDP defense spending

And refuses to affirm Article 5, the only reason for NATO to exist.

>>75763190
I guess trying to spread communism around the globe was an accident. Who doesn't try that from time to time? One time I got drunk and attempted a communist takeover of Togo.

>>75763097
The problem (as I see it) is that people are getting in a frenzy over the whole thing without much information, or background in cyber-security.

There exists two situations that are debated about.

1. It is true, and they attempted to help Trump win, but failed. This presents some tough issues because if they failed, but still got their desired result, should they, or would they receive any punishment? An if they were truly trying to help Trump then why would Trump not come down hard on ending the investigation? I suppose it could be that he is confident that they will find nothing more, or maybe that he wants to play it safe on that ground.

2. It was someone else, and it is a political move by opponents of either Russia, Trump, or both. In which case Trump could come down hard on it, and be justified, but still likely wouldn't for fear of political backlash.

Like with most truths, the answer is probably somewhere in the middle. At least that's my thoughts on the matter. I'm done debating this regardless. For all we know it could be underground mole men framing Russia so that they can invade, and take back Siberia. That's entirely possible in the field of cyber-security, but fortunately not in reality.

>>75763063
>that those nations were not pulling their own weight.

All those nations pulled their weight just fine dying when your bitch ass country cried Article 5 over a bunch of goat fuckers slapping your buildings.

>>75763236
>what was Yalta

>>75763293
If someone hands you a gun and tells you to shoot an innocent person, does that give you the moral right?

>>75763282
So what is your background in cyber security?

>>75763269
And? the west is spreading neoliberal capitalism and globalism as we speak and they were less aggressive about it.
Besides that map you posted doesn't show the rift between the USSR, China and Yugoslavia. With the last two you had good diplomatic relations.

>>75763282
>should they, or would they receive any punishment?
Obama expelled 30+ Russian diplomats and closed down two Russian compounds back in December.

Putin's response was kind of telling.

>>75763314
It was a mutual agreement though.

>>75763402
And then Trump gave them back their diplomatic compounds...

Given that the only people buying into this are people who are/were already diehard Democrats...

>>75763462
He wants the Russia story to go away but just keeps on feeding it.
>inb4 4d chess

>>75763538
Didn't surveys show that only 13% of Russians have a favorable view of the US now?

>>75763538
So John McCain is a die hard democrat?

>>75763677
John McCain is a bitter old loser who can't get over 2008.

>>75761474
2nd Amendment.

>>75762868
Changing the result was never the goal, it was a propaganda action designed to reduce peoples faith in mainstream reporting and force them to rely on more insular sources of information (like reddit and Facebook) in which opinions can be far more easily controlled. Us intelligence suspects that an additional goal of the attack was to use this propaganda to swag voters toward Donald Trump, who the attackers suspected would have a destabilising influence on the US and it's ability to influence global affairs.

>>75763784
>>75761474
Do you guys _really_ want Mike "Let's Burn All Gays At The Stake" Pence to become president?

>>75763707
McCain is bitter about losing to Obama, so now he's siding with Obama?

>>75764019
Second Amendment takes care of him, too. It really is a useful, catch-all solution for bad pollies.

>>75764019
Yes, absolutely. I don't care how bad Pence is, I don't want to set the precedent that Presidents could get away with this. And you should be worried about it too, it means Democrats could get away with whatever Trump does in the future.

There is no evidence that Russia did anything. It's clearly rogue """hackers""" meaning people skilled enough to send malware to idiotic Americans that click any link in their email inbox while on an NSA computer. Your "intelligence" agencies are a fucking joke.

>>75763109
>Also e-voting is asking for trouble. Use paper.

Ironically the US is pushing others to do it, likely so they can use it to easily backdoor other nations elections.

The NSA just went out and suggested to the Canadian government than online voting is good since we're currently looking at it but it is unlikely to happen.

Not sketchy at all.

>>75760099
i swear if you live in california i am killing myself

>>75765719
Arizona. Why?