Is Russia a western country?

>>75405958
More so than Panama
Your entire contribution to the world is slitting your country in half.

Russia has always been a traditional European power.

>>75405958
AHAHAHAHAHAHA no, not really

>>75405980
>More so than Panama
chicano resentido

>>75405980
Are you okey?

Lyl even Russians themselves can't decide; they've been arguing over their identity since Peter the Great.

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>>75406008
Yeah definitely not a shitskin Mexican, but nice try

>>75406008
>no, not really
Don't want to hear it from Latin American shithole. Europeans have their right to reject us, but you are much further from the West than we ever were.

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>>75406122
>Don't want to hear it from Latin American shithole.
Argumentum Ad Hominem!

>>75406116
Pls, don't post you face here. Thanks.

>>75405980
retard detected

>>75406199
>Illegal alien detected

>>75406122
Sounds about the same to me.
What makes you Western? You are more Asian than Western, right? Half of Russia is in Asia.

>>75405958
Russia is kind of unique type of culture

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>>75406338
>unique type of culture
sounds about right

>>75406122
>>75406229
the Iron Curtain is a real thing
is not that Russia is not european, it's just not the West. Ortodox Christian, using their own alphabet, different way of thinking... slavic... what more

as for the REAL memes,
>Latin America
use my name, because i am on my own league

>>75406116
Yes you are mexican stop the selfhate

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>>75405958

Russia is a civilization onto itself.

It fended off the Vikings, Mongols, European Crusades, Napoleonic Europe, Nazi Europe.

Russia is quite literally the savior of all other civilizations.

>>75406467
>on my own league
doesn't really look like it desu.

>>75406648
>russia fended off the mongols
Got your slavs mixed up their buddy

The West narrowly defined is Catholic and Protestant (that is, the historical "Latin") Europe.

The first (and uncontroversial) expansion of this definition includes European settler-colonies like the U.S.A. and Australia.

The second (and somewhat controversial) expansion of this definition includes "Greek" (whatever version of Orthodoxy) Europe.

The third (and very controversial) expansion includes highly racially mixed colonies like those in South and Central America.

Anything beyond that (e.g., colonies based on control of existing societies, like those in Asia and most of Africa, or foreign societies highly influenced in terms of modern-day political structure by the West like Japan) is unambiguously not Western.

In my view the third expansion is a step too far, and the second expansion should always be specified rather than assumed.

So the answer is, "only if you say so very clearly".

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>>75406994
the most mixed race country in the planet, for lack of better proofs
watch this pic. none a single one of them is white, mestizo, black or asian. we're all paraguayans
we wear the uniform, we speak our own language (which is also mixed as fuck), we know our ancestors but we don't identify with them. we won't quit even when last place and we won't ever lay down and die
but yeah this thread isn't about my country, just answering since you asked

>>75407177
agreed

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>>75407177
>highly racially mixed
Reminder

>>75405958
They are northern european

the west is from germany and afterwards

>>75405958
No. We are not either part of the West or East.

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>>75407089

>>75407472
Hah, you WERE mongols for 150 years.

You were literally their fuckboys and they controled your country.

>>75407530
Nah they said pay or get rekt
We paid before 1 guy came and said "Fuck off mongols we don't wan't to pay" and killed all mongols

>>75407555
Sure thing. 150 years of anal sex from a horse riding chink is a "fuck off mongols xaxa" according to you. Nice.

>>75407530
And Poland was a part of Russian Empire for 125 years. Should you be considered russian now?

>>75407472
But you were still controlled by mongols for 200 years. Poles on the other hand were just raided by Mongols

>>75407602
Not all of it :^) plus a large chunk of Russia was Poland as well.

I'm not saying both aren't true but I'm just a bit salty that you're trying to bleach the rule mongols had over Russians for a long period of time. It wasn't "fuck you xaxa" they literally forced russians into their armies and had russian slaves.

>>75407605
>Controlled
Burger education
We were controlled as much as Saudi Arabia by USA

>>75405958
if they move the capital back to st Petersburg

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>>75405958
At times yes, at others no. Depends on the political situation of the times.

>>75407605
Mongols did not invade in the typical western fashion. Rather than taking de facto control and ruling over the population, they just demanded tribute. Russian cities, like Novgorod, were left alone because they could afford it whereas places in the south such as Kiev were looted, raped and burned to the ground.

>>75407653
>Not all of it
So what? There was no poland on the map and by your logic poles didn't exist backthen.
>you're trying to bleach the rule mongols had over Russians for a long period of time
No I'm not. Thing is, it's not like mongols flooded russian cities and blend in. They didn't even collect the payment buy themselves.

>>75407753
What logic? Are you insane? I never implied russia didn't exist, I implied it was occupied and enslaved which is fucking true no matter how hard you try to shill. Russians were forced into mongol armies and women were taken as slaves and sold south. Sure there were different pariods when russia was under mongol rule but you make it sound like it was some sort of a picnic.

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>>75407848
>occupied and enslaved

Mongols didn't actually live in Russian cities though. And slaves were primarily from areas of modern Ukraine, which were looted and enslaved because they couldn't afford the tributes.

>>75407919
So Kievian part is not Russia when it brings shame but it is Russia whenever theres need to support annexation or defend russians from arguments that they have no history or stole Ukrainian one.

How convenient.

It's just like: "USSR was not Russia(because of genocide) but Russia won WW2".

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>>75407980
What a loaded reply. Are you getting any of that from my replies, or are you just venting at imaginary Russians?

Just to clear things up I was referring Russia in its traditional geographical extent (Novgorod-Moscow). If you wanna include Kiev in that then sure, but I wasn't in the context of my comments.

>>75407980
Russia won WW2

>>75407848
>What logic?
"Russia was controlled by mongols -> Russians were mongols"
So "Poland was part of Russia -> poles were russians"should be true aswell.

>>75408123
And where did I imply you were Mongols?

>>75408151
>>75407530
>you WERE mongols

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>>75405958
no
/thread

>>75408157
M'kay my bad, it's earlyl here.

What I ment is you were under their rule.

>>75408212
>you were under their rule
Sure, no one can argue with that.

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>>75408162

>>75405980
So according to you Andorra isn't a western country. Got it.

Depends.
The concept of the west itself developed and so did russia. Some times it overlapped now it has become an own thing it seems.

>"russia is/isn't european" discussion again
anyone with a working brain knows the answer, why bother?

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>>75408298

canada. western country?

lol. look at those savages.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0dOmLZRoug

>>75407530
we were not
we were paying mongols so they dont hurt us and they would protect us from the West, but we were not mixing

Russia is the true Eastern European country.

>>75409346
Bumpiing with a worthless anecdote
Why are Hungarians the best East Europeans?
It is simple. East Europe is between Germany and Russia, so everyone should know two things: when German tanks will be on streets and when Russian ones will be
First one is no secret: when they are ready, they will go in because ordnung. There is no Ordnung in Russia, so some experimentation is required. Hungarians went for it first (1956), so they are wisest and bravest
Honorary mention: poles are also very brave, but they are not very wise, unless they are compared with hohols

>>75407980
>So Kievian part is not Russia when it brings shame but it is Russia whenever theres need to support annexation or defend russians from arguments that they have no history or stole Ukrainian one.
There's no contradiction though. Until the Mongol invasion, the Western principalities (Polotsk, Kiev, Vladimir) and the Eastern principalities (Rostov, Murom, Smolensk) were politically and culturally the same thing. However, after the 12th century they became separate entities with different destinies, and now we have 3 independent nations without common identity. Just because the great duke's residence was situated in Kiev does not mean that Ukraine should have monopoly on the period of our common history.

>>75406648
>>75407472
>>75407530
>>75407555
>>75407576
>>75407602
>>75407653
>>75407753
>>75407848
>>75407919
>>75407980
>>75408123
That's kinda funny, but let me join in.
Muscovy destroyed Tver, along with all other parts of real Kiev Rus.

>At first Uzbeg did not want to empower Moscow. In 1327, the Baskaki Shevkal, cousin of Uzbeg, arrived in Tver from the Horde, with a large retinue. They took up residence at Aleksander's palace. Rumors spread that Shevkal wanted to occupy the throne for himself and introduce Islam to the city. When, on 15 August 1327, the Mongols tried to take a horse from a deacon named Dyudko, he cried for help and a mob of furious people fell on the Tatars and killed them all. Shevkal and his remaining guards were burnt alive. Thus Uzbeg Khan began backing Moscow as the leading Russian state. Ivan I Kalita was granted the title of grand prince and given the right to collect taxes from other Russian potentates. The Khan also sent Ivan at the head of an army of 50,000 soldiers to punish Tver

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Horde

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>>75411198
To this day Tver(the last remaining part of Kiev Rus) doesn't have as much Mongolic admx as for example Muscovians that were under Mongol administration and did their dirty work.

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Russia aggressiveness has nothing to do with Russians as culture. It's is a natural consequence of their geopolitical position. Once you understand the geography, you can understand their behaviour. The eastern portion of the Great European Plain is a vast open plain field with no geographical defenses. All traditional European defence strategies fail beyond today's Poland's borders. The only way to defend yourself is to employ the advantages of strategic depth, attrition, and logistics strain that long distances provide. Any state rising on that portion of the plain will seek to protect itself by aggressively extend its borders and get as much buffer terrain as area.

>>75411349
the thread was really boring until now
this post was interesting though

>>75411349
>Russia aggressiveness has nothing to do with Russians as culture
The I suggest you to read more.
Geopolitical part is true, but it's not all.

It's the Orthodox religion presented almost in the Muslim way, Mongol administration and later expansions that assimilated brutal and primitive natives. Mix it for thousand of years and you have Russia.

Their people were always treated poorly and as expendables by their rulers. No regard for human life whatsoever.

Ethnic Russians are Eastern Europeans. Eastern Europe is not considered part of Western World, right?

>>75411453
>It's the Orthodox religion presented almost in the Muslim way, Mongol administration and later expansions that assimilated brutal and primitive natives
My BS meter is off charts here...

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>>75411453
>human in East Europa !!!

So for you Slavs are humans?? Hahaaha we are worriors of god not humans

Russian are strong aggressive and proude about there cultur we dont care about !!!! human life bullshit Deal with it we are worriors of veles we gona take the world soon and kill evrey one thet is not of our race !!!

You can join us converting to orthdox or die with your si si fuck humans

>>75412017
You nose is showing, Shlomo.

>>75411624
And yet I see no counter-arguments.

Why do Russians go as fas as to deny their roots and history?

>>75411453

Geography and geopolitics shapes the character of a culture.

>>75412211
Yes, but so do other factors.

>>75412124
Ok, let's go :)
>Orthodox religion presented almost in the Muslim way
Orthodoxy has nothing on Islam in terms of agressive expantion, even Catholicism is more agressive in pushing for its' dominance (remember crusades, attacks from german and swedish knighs on Russian lands?). Compare that to even your own status, Poland remained Catholic despite being a part of Russian Empire for a very long time. And that's just one example.
>Mongol administration
Had a significant impact on our management level phycology but not on a cultural one (exept many cultural exchanges that, naturally, happen between all neighbouring countries which manifests itself in language, traditions, dress etc.). Not really sure how that can be called as bad OR good - it's just a historical fact.
>later expansions that assimilated brutal and primitive natives
Who, by most part, were left to their own devices as long as they didn't bother Russian settlers. To this day they constitute a rather small part of our county and, untill very recently (fuck commies btw) were living in the same stone age as they were when they were discovered.
>Mix it for thousand of years and you have Russia
Taking into account all i have said earlier and you'll see why your perception is flawed. I bet you didn't even meet an ordinary Russian person in your life (why would you, right now it's only rich fucks who can traver abroad :().

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>>75412110
What nos tatarskaja suka ??? Dont make we mad as hell blyat i Am all ready mad i would kill all of you !!!!!! Dont even call me human i Am abave this short subhumens

All My life i wonted to be a blacksmith (кyзнeц )kówal :(

But niet suka blyat i become programist

Do you know how hard is to be 6ft7 look like hulk with long tiny legs programist paganist satanist orthdox bodybuilder in zion Israel blyat ??? Plus fucking slav thet miss home land !!!! :(

Dont make me sad blyat !!!!

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Russian civilization follows middle way: matter and information

>>75412446
Calm your tits, Shlomo, you were exposed and failed to aquire today's shekels. Tomorrow you'll have another chance.

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>>75411198
Everyone who's been taught the Russian history knows that Moscow collaborated with the Horde to gain some privileges under the yoke, but only a Pole could come to a conclusion that it somehow made Russians Mongols.

It's as stupid as saying that cooperating with jail administration against other prisoners somehow makes you a cop.

>>75412373
>Orthodoxy has nothing on Islam in terms of agressive expantion, even Catholicism is more agressive in pushing for its' dominance (remember crusades, attacks from german and swedish knighs on Russian lands?). Compare that to even your own status, Poland remained Catholic despite being a part of Russian Empire for a very long time. And that's just one example.
Orthodoxy is literally half-way to Islam. Same rules, same values.
>Had a significant impact on our management level phycology but not on a cultural one (exept many cultural exchanges that, naturally, happen between all neighbouring countries which manifests itself in language, traditions, dress etc.). Not really sure how that can be called as bad OR good - it's just a historical fact.
Except it was the dominant shaping factor for Muscovy and later Russia. Like I said, Muscovians burned and destroyed the remains of KIev Rus, you cannot call Russia succesor of Kiev Rus.
>Who, by most part, were left to their own devices as long as they didn't bother Russian settlers. To this day they constitute a rather small part of our county and, untill very recently (fuck commies btw) were living in the same stone age as they were when they were discovered.
Not true.
>Taking into account all i have said earlier and you'll see why your perception is flawed. I bet you didn't even meet an ordinary Russian person in your life (why would you, right now it's only rich fucks who can traver abroad :().
People had the pleasure to meet Russian hordes. Those that lived told their stories. You're not good people. You're savages.
>>75413510
Then why the fuck are you claiming Kiev Rus for yourselves? Muscovyniggers destroyed Kiev Rus, not were them.

I forgot Slavs have the thing for appropriating other people's culture as theirs.

>>75414102
You do realise that you have provided ZERO evidense to your claims. right?
>Orthodoxy is literally half-way to Islam. Same rules, same values.
Care to elaborate? Burden of proof, you know.
>Except it was the dominant shaping factor for Muscovy and later Russia. Like I said, Muscovians burned and destroyed the remains of KIev Rus, you cannot call Russia succesor of Kiev Rus.
Again, elaborate plz.
>Not true.
Top argument, dude.
>People had the pleasure to meet Russian hordes. Those that lived told their stories. You're not good people. You're savages.
So I was right, you didn't meet a singe Russian in your life.

The other argument you had with another Russian is beyond ridiculous so i won't even bother to comment on that.

>>75407602
Yeah.

>>75406040
This, it doesn't matter what you think because they don't even have a shared opinion themselves.

>>75414537
That's our problem - identity crisys, magnified by rejection of Monarchy and, later on, Communism.

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>>75405958
Yes, they are a bit quirky being the literal edge, and have at times been isolated like under mongol rule for example, but they are a European country.

>>75414102
>Then why the fuck are you claiming Kiev Rus for yourselves?
Why wouldn't we? That's the country our ancestors lived in.
>>75411072

>Muscovyniggers destroyed Kiev Rus, not were them.
Kievan Rus got balkanized a century before Moscow started being a thing. What the fuck are you even talking about?

Is it bait or are there really people that don't know anything about Russia? How the fuck do you not know that Russia and the West are 2 different civilizations?