why do people want socialised health care in the US? >be

you are right
i feel the same
last time i was at doctor was 16 years ago
why should I pay for the service i dont use

>>74945779
>>74946065
>oy vey making the rich pay for your healthcare is antisemetic goyim
>give your money to Israel instead

>>74945779

When you, or a family member need a liver transplant, you'll get why. Plus it doesn't hurt to pay the taxes and private basic plan on the side.

>>74946065

The state doesn't revolve around your ass, nor your life, nor whatever the fuck you want. Ancaps need to be gassed.

Cheers bois. :3

>>74946117
huh?

>>74945779
has serviced our country pretty well desu

<inb4 cuckland moslim country

>>74946149
get a job commie then we talk
i care only for myself,why should i pay for ronaldo zidan and his 15 gypsy kids

>>74946225
enjoy living in a shithole

Just went to the doctor and got an ECG and a blood test done for free. Didn't even need to wait more than 5 minutes. Feels good not falling for the private healthcare meme.

>>74946296
its not fee you retard
>>74946274
i dont

>>74946372
For me it is. I'm 22 and I'm still in my parent's plan. And even if I had to pay, public healthcare is still a lot cheaper than private healthcare or no healthcare if you get seriously ill.

>>74946225

As I've stated in the first post: I pay my high taxes and a basic private plan on the side. Not all of those taxes return to me, some of them go for public health care, which I used once in 10 years when changing plans.

>Why should I...

The state exists for much bigger and better things than your will, or whatever the fuck you want from politics. I see health, education, public safety and common infrastructure as basic rights, not merchandise. You need those in place if you want to do whatever in terms of production, because you will need people to work(healthy, well educated, and feeling safe), and infrastructure to be maintained at low cost(which would never heppen if private companies were to take over).

This is that sort of thing ancaps can't get, because the level on entitlement in kids these days is beyond absurd.

Now just a little reminder: You, me, or whoever else have absolutely no "natural" rights.

I haven't really had problems with the public health care other than the queues are awfully long. So might as well pay for private

>>74946296
You pay in taxes though

Also, if you are healthy you have no reason to go to the doctor. Excluding 2-3 routine tests which found no fault, I haven't been to any doctor in 10 years.

>>74946526
What if you suddenly get cancer? If you have no healthcare it will ruin you financially. Would you rather pay a bit every month or potentially lose your house, car and everything you have because you didn't want to "pay" for other people?

>>74945779
haha poorfag it feels good to afford high end medical service

>>74946465
> and infrastructure to be maintained at low cost
"Low-cost" bullshit. The state is a very inefficient builder, you probably know this better than I do, being a brazilian. All infrastructure projects are over-budgeted, and sometimes it's just money-laundering between the state and corrupt businessmen.

You are no better than an ancap. Just like they believe that the free market does no wrong, you believe that the state does no wrong.

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Public healthcare works just fine here in northern Sweden. Short waiting times and competent doctors that actually help.
Went in last month with a elbow that had swollen up after a hiking fall, waited maybe 20 minutes then got an x-ray and another 10-15 minutes before I got it drained and fixed.
Always like that here.
And even if you live far into the woods etc or need really fast help and they send a helicopter etc it's not gonna cost you a dime.

>>74946623

>pay a bit

you have been paying it for 20 years by now

>>74946623
>what if you suddenly get cancer
Universal healthcare doesn't even cover cancer anyway.

I wouldn't mind paying a few money for healthcare in case something happens to me. That's what insurance is for, too.

>>74945779
What does the mole look like mate?

I've had a small black freckle appear on my arm, it grew a little bit at first but seems to have stopped. I mentioned it to the doctor in a phone conversation and she said as it sound like it's regular shape and not spreading quickly it should be fine.

this jungle commie is pathetic
your state of mind is why your shitohle is collapsing

>>74946665

I never said it's "efficient", nor have I said the government is great. I presented a choice and made mine. It really is that simple. If I could hang politicians and corrupt businessman for this sort of practice, I would.

>>74946747

Still a bit. It's not just for you.

>>74946774

Medical bills are hideously high. Specially because if you pay them yourself the doctors usually charge more then they would charge an insurance company. That is the reason I pay a basic plan along with my taxes.

>>74946878

No idea why you're calling me a commie, but let's just go with it. Not that I give much of a fuck what you people see in the "spectrum" of politics anyway.

>>74946851
if its not growing you should be okay. Melanoma is dangerous because it grows so fast. Either grows vertically or sideways. Vertical growth is the dangerous kind (as it gets deeper past skin) so make sure it stays flat.If you think its gottem more raised go to GP or dermatologist asap.

Public health care works pretty well here.

But an educated patient gets better treatment than an uneducated one.
If you say you want it checked out, then it will be checked out.
If you say nothing, you might indeed get send home that it's probably nothing.

I also had a weird lump under my skin, which was probably nothing according to the echo, but they weren't sure.
So I wanted it removed just in case. And my family doctor also went like: "ehh why do you want it removed?"

Oh, I don't know, because it's a weird ugly lump under my skin that could possibly turn out to be cancer.

>>74945779
I want a public health system that runs independent of the private healthcare market. I will still pay for private insurance, but I nonetheless believe in basic care for all.

>>74946987
How flat? I can feel it slightly but it's not really raised.

What did yours look like mate? What's the prognosis?

you are a commie because you think you are there for the state and not the other way around
you are a commie that thinks that state should regulate his life
you are a commie

>>74947016
One cool thing here in the Netherlands is that you can see online which hospitals are available for which treatments.

So if your local hospital is occupied you can just move to a different one.

>>74947114
Mine was just a c-shaped black mole. A tiny bit raised.

If its raised and new you should consider going to a dermatologist for peace of mind.

Melanoma is really rare in young people soits probably nothing, even rarer in Europe.

>>74946465
Good post.

>>74945779
Well for one thing it actually keeps costs down so even if you use the services a lot it still ends up being cheaper.

Also idk why you assume american doctors would definitely pick it up. There are shitty/lazy doctors everywhere.

>>74947122
But how can the state be there for it¨'s citizens if it doesn't provide them with basic healthcare?

>>74945779
If there was a way to police hospitals overcharging for fucking everything, health care wouldn't be so expensive.

>$2000 ambulance ride
>$250 x-ray(per body part)
>$500 IV drip
>$300 hospital gown
>$2000/day room
>$250 blood test

god forbid you actually need surgery

>>74947122

Great way to show stupidity. I'm not here for the state, and the state is not here for any individual. The state is there to grant the citizens what I called in a past post "basic rights".

Just picture this: Some rich guy in your cunt decides to build a railroad of 1000km, and the state can't regulate how this goes. What is stopping that prick from simply charging all your cash + a go with your wife and daughter for each thing you wanna send for a ride on it?

Again: Ancaps should all be gassed.

>>74947189
state is police,army and justice system
rest is not a state bussnies

>>74947150
How old are you? How big was it? Mine is 1mm, I'm 24 and I don't get a lot of sun really.

>>74947232
if he owns the land he can do whatever he fucking wants on it
if you cant pay the services dont fucking use it
simple as that

>>74945779
>tfw my mother almost died because she was told by a doctor that her cancerous mouth ulcer was nothing serious

>>74947226
>If there was a way to police hospitals overcharging for fucking everything, health care wouldn't be so expensive.
If only governments had some way to regulate industry through law or something.

>>74947291
Im25 but Im ginger and in NZ, so my risk is way higher than you.Also spend a lot of time in the sun without sunscreen.

If you're really worried just go to a dermatologist bro. They can spot warning signs a lot better than GP.

If its 1mm and melanoma then its still in situ and can be removed very easily, so better now than 5 years down the line.

>>74947175
>Also idk why you assume american doctors would definitely pick it up.
Muh profit motive. Doctors in a public system supposedly don't care about doing their job because they're not properly motivated.

>>74947325
sue him

>>74947338
muh free market

>>74945779
>>Its just an abnormal mole go away
Don't they remove abnormal moles? Here they just cut them away to be on the safe side. I mean it's a 5 minute procedure that can't possibly cost much.

>>74947363
>muh regulations
you should move to the eu

>>74947343
Sounds like complete bullshit to me and I won't believe it until I see it statistically proven.

>>74947322
How many land owners do you know of who own a strip of land that crosses an entire cunt? Cunt must be bigger than Vermont to count. Sorry, Slovenian landowners.

>>74947414
>put arm in front of machine
>press button

that'll be $250 please

oh we need to operate

that'll be $10,000 please

>>74947414
healthcare costs (probably)every EU country are lower than the US though

>>74947226

I worked at a private clinic, got 2 jobs for not even the monies of a single one according to market average. And I saw my boss coming to work everyday in a porsche or a fucking ferrari. Not even counting his collection of motorcycles and others common cars.

100k per bed in intensive care. And this is just intensive, not even counting lesser serious patients.

>>74947322

That's the problem. Thanks.

Nothing should work purely for profit. I just want research funds for universities(which should all be public) and monies into infrastructure. Couldn't care less what memeconomists hold dear. The humanistics were a huge fucking mistake for presenting the world with lil shits like you, sir.

>>74947343

I wonder why are people with a simple fucking degree are allowed to practice anything.

>>74947471
Here we have maximum prizes for each action during a procedure. It's illegal to above those. Exactly to prevent that bullshit.

And the client only pays a maximum of 380 euros per year for the sum of all expenses that year. The rest is covered by your insurance.

>>74947418
Hey, I'm just playing devil's advocate. It's probably true for some doctors, but I suspect that one doesn't go through the hard work of medical school just for the money. I know that I sure didn't choose my field, environmental remediation, for the money.

>>74947538
*prices

>>74947339
I have to go through a GP first m8 and they do telephone conversations first now to stop people wasting time.

>>74947546
>environmental remediation
what does that entail?

>>74947538
A maximum legal price would probably be a huge step in the right direction here

Looking into the health industry is actually sickening as it is now

>>74947509
>people with a simple fucking degree are allowed to practice anything
That's not the case here
>pre-med (undergraduate)
>medical (graduate)
>internship
>residency
It's basically 8-12+ years of training before you can legally practice medicine in the US.

>>74947594
I'm in groundwater remediation, specifically. That's removing spilled hydrocarbons from the water table.

>>74947662

That is still a simple fucking degree, brother. Same thing here. With the exception that there is no undergrad thing. It's uni, internship, residency and you're in. I still think it's too little, doesn't show enough effort to get into the field you are supposed to love.

>>74947729
Here it's just a degree + internship. Then you become a "basic doctor".

A residency is only required if you want to specialize. But you can become a family doctor perfectly fine without it.

>>74947729
Sorry, but a doctorate is pretty much the definition of an exceptional degree.
You also have to continue your training throughout your career, and you have to be re-tested to keep your license.
I agree with your sentiment about wanting someone supremely dedicated to medical care, but then we'd have a shortage of doctors. Maybe requiring 5 years of nursing prior to getting a medical license would work? I dunno.

>>74947841
But it's said to be the heaviest degree there is.

Only the smartest kids are allowed in. And unlike other master degrees it takes 6 years instead of 4.

>>74947270
It very much is, it's the duty of a people to help out it's members fallen on hard times.

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>>74945779
That's called having a shit physician not the fault of socialised healthcare.


Here in Poland if you come with a mole you get checked for moles on the entirety of your body and they're all preventively removed.
And we actually have a pretty shit healthcare.

>>74947965
But here you also need to have finished the 6 year middle/high school that prepares you for biological fields in university.

>>74947841

Does it work there? Here I get the feelings people go into med school for profit only. =/

>>74947922

5 years of nursing seems great actually. But a good amount of research and double yearly testing would be good imo. Idk I just don't like the idea of potentially incompetent people doing important things.

Threats to your health and life are sudden and unexpected. You need health care at all times, not just when you get sick. It would be too late then. If you haven't gone to the doctor in 10 years, you should be a happy person because you're better off than 90% of the population, and i'm talking about people even in your own country.
And the OP is memeing. You can literally go see a different doctor if the first doctor doesn't tell you what you like to hear. He even said they biopsied it after he insisted. How would private health care change anything? It's still the same doctor, he just gets paid differently.

>>74947729
>I still think it's too little, doesn't show enough effort to get into the field you are supposed to love.
That's bullshit and you know it.

What other field requires you to spend 6 years in uni, pass an exam and have at least 13 months of internship just to be able to do your job at the most basic level?
None.
And that's not counting highschool, where you have actually work hard to even have a chance of applying to a university.

Sure people do it for money. If they weren't paid good, would you consider spending 10 years of your life to get a job?

I don't know how healthcare works in NZ but I worked as a receptionist in a GP for a bit and I think the best advice I can give is to avoid fully bulk billed doctors for more serious concerns. Fuck, one of the doctors I worked with left a positive chlamydia test unreported for like 3 days cos he refused to check his mail

For everything else, go to a privately billing doctor, some of them can be partially covered by public health insurance

>>74948280
>What other field requires you to spend 6 years in uni, pass an exam and have at least 13 months of internship just to be able to do your job at the most basic level?
Any entry-level engineering job in 2017

>>74948214
You can go to med school for the profit only. But only the best students get let in. So.. if you dont excel in biology and health sciences you wont get in in the first place.

>>74948346
the question was "being legally allowed to do something" not "having CV filled enough to find an employer willing to employ you"

>>74947722
fair enough

important I'm sure

>>74947722
My mom called my doctor and said to him "What's the most accurate measurement for weighing?"
The doctor said "An underwater weighing test"
And just like that, my mom said "Yes. When can my son and my daughter can take it?" and the doc said "Today at 2pm."
So, I didn't bother taking a shower and so did my sister too, so I had to get into a special swimming suit(tight pants...Ugh).
My sister said "Can I pull my hair down to a ponytail?" The doctor said "No."
So my sister with her long, blonde hair went underwater with 8 seconds and had she must enjoyed it..but I didn't.

>>74948280

People study a little bit, look at others do a little something and bam! They're in to treat peoples lifes. Not even required to learn much after that. Point in which profit becomes more important then actually caring for others.

Not saying they shouldn't be paid well, merely pointing out to you that they gain too much for the shitty little amount of learning and devotion they actually put into it.

I'm going into computer science, I'll be studying / working my whole life tbqh.

>>74948397

I get that. What I'm trying to say is: Still not enough. The best out of a bunch of greedy little kids might still be bad. =/

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>>74948579
???

>>74948582
When you are 12 intelligent kids go to different schools than dumb kids.
17% of the population goes to a school that prepares for university.
Only about 20% of that prepares for health sciences because then you get heavy math, science and biology related subjects for 6 years.
Then you need be the top 20% of that to get into med school.

I studied law but I wouldn't be able to do it. In fact, I actually flunked out of those coursed during high school. Honestly, if someone else can he has my blessing.

>>74948837

That actually sounds like almost a perfect model. Would still like research and yearly testing along with it, just o make perfection. Hoping our school reform here mirrors some of your system tbqh.

>>74945779
Europeans have nothing whatsoever to be proud of and no genuine accomplishments any more so they obsess over public health care because they think half-heartedly voting for social democrats for fifty years and eventually ending up with a cradle to grave welfare state is some kind of mind-blowing achievement. It's sad how much of a sacred cow it's become in this country, it's just a way for people to pretend they give a shit about their kin when they really don't

>>74950641
>and no genuine accomplishments any more
haha yeah fuck CERN and all those other organizations that are doing all of humanity a massive favour and have genuinely achieved a lot throughout the decades

fucking retarded bong

>>74946117
or don't give your money in the first place

>>74946442
>>74947484
I think Singapore has the most efficient healthcare by %GDP and it's not public

>>74946465
>and infrastructure to be maintained at low cost(which would never heppen if private companies were to take over).

but things are always much more cost when the state does it, instead of competing companies

>>74946623
that's what insurance is, it doesn't have to be public

>>74947232
don't ride that train retard

>>74947729
maybe the worst post in the thread

>>74951028

Don't care how much it costs for the state, as I merely pitch in a little every month. What I do not want is to have to pay for each 20km of road, everytime I pass through. Or have to pay 3 times more for a train ride because some fucking company wants profit.

>Don't ride that train, retard!

Already did. Read the thread, retard.

>Maybe the worst post

Care to defend?

>>74951319
you could pay 3x less because insurance companies could be competing for you as a customer

>Some rich guy in your cunt decides to build a railroad of 1000km, and the state can't regulate how this goes. What is stopping that prick from simply charging all your cash + a go with your wife and daughter for each thing you wanna send for a ride on it?
whats stopping him is nobody riding it bcause he fucks your daughter, and he wastes millions on a train nobody uses
>Care to defend?
why should someone spend over 8 years learning how to treat people when I will pay for someone who knows what they're doing after 2? if you want someone with like 12 years of experience then you can pay more, but I'm healthy because I'm not fat and I can do fine with someone with 2 years learning.

>>74948579
Kek

>>74946117
>making the rich pay for your healthcare
But it's not just the rich. The middle class pays half their income in taxes and social security to pay for it.
The only way you could think you don't pay for it is if you never had a job

>>74951439

Holy fucking shit. The level...

>3x less because competing

I usually see the prices rise way above what profit margins are. Instead of 1/6, it's close to 5x.

>whats stopping him is nobody riding it bcause he fucks your daughter, and he wastes millions on a train nobody uses

What the fuck did I just read?

>2y

This third point is as retarded as it gets. Don't really care if you can accept it or not tbqh. Poorly trained and motivated-only-by-profit fuckers = can die, won't be missed.

>>74951567
>What the fuck did I just read?
maybe read your own retarded post

>>74951567
> Don't really care if you can accept it or not tbqh. Poorly trained and motivated-only-by-profit fuckers = can die, won't be missed.
I don't care if you don't accept it, I should be able to pay for what I want since my immune system isn't collapsing from alcohol and weed and fat

>>74951626

I read, it simply doesn't make sense for the following reason: You're brain is dead.

>I don't care if you don't accept it, I should be able to pay for what I want since my immune system isn't collapsing from alcohol and weed and fat

I suggest you read the thread, brother. You seem to be referring to someone else.

>>74950958
You had no hand in CERN or anything else, dumb balticnigger. White knighting for some no hope identity because you're on EU bennies, even more pathetic tbqh

>>74950641
I'm 24 and I haven't worked a day in my life. But i'll have you know that you're wrong. I will work for the next 40 years after i finish uni, and then go in retirement and live to become 90 years old. So it's not "cradle to grave welfare", it's only about 55% of my life welfare

>>74951704
>You seem to be referring to someone else.
>Just picture this: Some rich guy in your cunt decides to build a railroad of 1000km, and the state can't regulate how this goes. What is stopping that prick from simply charging all your cash + a go with your wife and daughter for each thing you wanna send for a ride on it?
>With the exception that there is no undergrad thing. It's uni, internship, residency and you're in. I still think it's too little
are these your retarded posts? if so youre the right guy

just read this a few times and think about stupid it is
>Just picture this: Some rich guy in your cunt decides to build a railroad of 1000km, and the state can't regulate how this goes. What is stopping that prick from simply charging all your cash + a go with your wife and daughter for each thing you wanna send for a ride on it?
>Just picture this: Some rich guy in your cunt decides to build a railroad of 1000km, and the state can't regulate how this goes. What is stopping that prick from simply charging all your cash + a go with your wife and daughter for each thing you wanna send for a ride on it?
>Just picture this: Some rich guy in your cunt decides to build a railroad of 1000km, and the state can't regulate how this goes. What is stopping that prick from simply charging all your cash + a go with your wife and daughter for each thing you wanna send for a ride on it?
>Just picture this: Some rich guy in your cunt decides to build a railroad of 1000km, and the state can't regulate how this goes. What is stopping that prick from simply charging all your cash + a go with your wife and daughter for each thing you wanna send for a ride on it?
>WHY WOULD ANYONE RIDE ON THIS TRAIN IF HE FUCKS YOUR DAUGHTER

>>74945779
In the UK, in my experience, if you complain about a mole they send you straight off to get that shit removed. They're pretty paranoid about skin cancer here, especially in young women.

>>74951816

Brother, the "price" was an example. Merely to point to whoever the fuck gives a shit that prices for huge infrastructure investments would be hideously high.

Actually instead of reading the thread, I would recomend you go back to school.

>>74951888
if the "price" was an example, my point still holds
why would you pay tons of money to ride the train, instead of riding a bus that takes all the customers by making price under trains?

>recomend you go back to school
for what?

>>74946851
I had a mole that didn't grow but it scabbed a tiny bit and then changed colour slightly on one side.
Went to the GP and he said it looked ok but sent me to the dermatologist just to be on the safe side.
Went to the demonologist and he also said it looked ok, got another doc in for a second opinion and she also thought it looked fine but they had some free time so they may as well take it off while I was there.
Turns out it was a melanoma! I was only 26 at the time.
Now I go back every few months for check ups and I had to have a mole map so they have photo evidence of every mole on my body incase any change.
Pretty fucking good service! Thank you NHS!

>>74945779
Doctors, especially primary GPs, suck everywhere.
On the remote chance you survive the cancer maybe next time you'll know to do more to direct your own care, you can certainly do that in the NZ system.

>>74951925

Because if the fucker has the money for such a high investment, what makes you think he/she won't have enough money to aquire all property around is? It's way cheaper. Plus the "bus" or whatever the fuck simply get shot or taken, because you would have to cross the property at some point, having in mind that the amount of land is huge.

Having railroads and trains owned by the government = service simply gets cheaper and faster. Imagine a bus taking a 1000 km trip, but having to go around all that land for each drop? It's simply fucking stupid.

>Back to school

To learn how to read.

because free medicine is the way to go

PAY

>>74951989
>moles
they're absolute madmen aren't they. Got 7 removed already; plan to get the final 4 or so removed this summer.

>>74951997
Not true in the US, primary care would push you to test it ASAP simply so it's not their liability. This is one of the reasons US healthcare is so expensive, there is much more testing, for what good or bad that might be.

>>74947729
my roommate is in first year med school. he doesn't leave the house except to go to school for tests and spends the rest of every day going over past lectures and studying.

hearing lectures through the walls every day at 2x speed is irritating as fuck, but i gotta respect the dude's dedication. you very clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

alri lads, you're formally invited to help /brit/ rack up as many posts as we can

we're aiming for over 2000 posts

>>74945293
>>74945293
>>74945293

we need HIGH SPEED ENERGY

>>74946465
>infrastructure
'no'

>>74954949

I very clearly do. Going to class and passing some tests =/= Caring about it and being able to conduct research or differentiate between results to make educated and concrete judgements. This sort of crap takes time, a lot of it. Your roomate maybe an exception, idk.

>>74955014

?

>>74946442
gee, you parents have been paying 50% tax for decades so you could have a free blood test done. good job :D

>>74947637
are you talking about uninsured patients?
because the doctors and hospitals all negotiate maximum fees for each procedure and if they charge you more, the insurance company will "adjust" that charge and only pay what they agreed to pay to the provider but it doesn't affect your bill at all.

>>74951741
not an argument

>go to A&E
>full because very busy night
>say I have pancreatitis
>get brought through to a bed in thirty seconds
>drunk bitch complaining about being their three hours
HAHA triage bitch

>>74946117
>i want the jews to take control of my money

>>74948579
excellent post

>>74948579
i love germans

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>macaco praising the Brazilian socialistic government

>>74946149
>cant afford the healthcare you need to live
>FORCE EVERYONE else to pay for your healthcare so you can live at the expense of society

Yep makes sense. Do everyone a favor and kys

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>>74945779
>be Australian
>get MOLE'D

>>74948579
>this shit again