Why should freedom of speech be legal?

kys

is there no normal education anymore?

jews werent killed/dehumanized because of hate
they were because they were discriminated, by laws that lead to the norm and law, to kill them

i hate gypsies, drug addicts, speeding ppl, yet i dont want to kill them

fuck political ideologies

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>>74653748
>Stuff like "Anne Frank nudes" being a pic of some ash

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>>74653748
>Stuff like "Anne Frank nudes" being a pic of some ash

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>>74653748
>Stuff like "Anne Frank nudes" being a pic of some ash

>>74653748
Because it's nobody else's fucking job to determine what you should say in the effort to manipulate societal norms.

Because once you decide you can start dictating these things it can come back to bite you from the other direction.

Because if something is true and right, the best thing for it is free speech. If it is truly good and truly true, open discussion can only help it.
Because killing free speech is the only way to kill the truth for sure.

>>74653917
Of course
>it's taken Europeans over 200 years and counting to get what we figured out in the late 18th century

>>74653917
but allowing shit speech is allowing degenerency.

>>74653968
And if anti-degeneracy is the best thing, use free speech to combat it.
What happens when those degenerates get in office and decide that because speech isn't free, they'll shut you up? You've then bitten yourself in the ass.

That's what makes a Republic over an oligarchy, rule of law over rule of man.

>>74653917
>>74653953
yea like being an ally of saudi arabia and supporting terrorism while waging a war on terror

fuck off hypocrits

>>74653968
It's up to the individual to accept the degeneracy.

>>74653748
Because the government doesnt have the right to tell you how to speak and think.

>>74654076
In many countries, including yours (the speak part), they do have that right, legally.

Freedom of speech exists in western society as a right not because you should be free of consequence when you say something, but because the law should not persecute you for it.
For example you can be punished for saying many things by your employer or parents or whatever. That's legal unless another law is against it.
The point of freedom of speech is that the state will not go after you. It exists to keep society free from the state.

When you attack minorities, or deny genocide or promote ideology against democracy, then you have conflict.
Because protecting minorities, maintaining the memory of genocide or protecting democracy are things western states are responsible for.
Some states choose to let one obligation take precedent, some choose another.

Americans believe freedom takes precedent, Europeans more often believe the other obligations are more important.

>>74654115
Free speech doesn't have an asterisk next to it. If you can get jail time for a picture of some ashes with the caption anne frank nudes then your country doesn't have free speech

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Europeans truly live inside a bubble...

Yes, limiting free speech can guarantee more social order - just look at Japan, where freedom of speech is very limited, but society works well because the interest of the many outnumbers the interest of the individual.

On the other hand, you have China and Russia, where respectively being anti-government or gay can get you in jail.

So tell me, Austria, since you seem really eager for combating the so-caled hate speech: how do you ensure the RIGHT things are allowed to say and WRONG things aren't? Do you honestly see no loopholes in forbidding self-expression in any level?

>>74653917

This desu.

Freedom of speech also means freedom of disinformation and freedom to manipulate, but one can mitigate those by promoting critical thinking and having good and readily available public education.

>>74654076
If some famous black people tell their followers to kill all white people and some will do it would that still fall under free speech for you? There's a difference between being allowed to voice your opinion (which is legal here) and actual hate speech that will hurt people (which is obviously illegal).

>>74654172
top kek
americans are really famous for their critical thinking and education
ahahahahaha

>>74654158
Are you saying your nation doesn't have freedom of speech?

>>74654194
>which is legal here
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>merely seeing 卍 this character can get you jailed in Germanistan
I'm calling the cops.

>>74654194
If they act on it that person can be arrested for inciting riots and crimes but otherwise no they couldn't do anything about it.

>>74654148

so far the only serious reply I've got.

But being on an imageboard shitposting with Americans while real life outside have different views really tears you apart, doesnt it? Like you cant decide who is right.

>>74654167

well the only thing that can get you in legal trouble here is when someone mocks the dead related to ww2, glorifies the nazis or denies the holocaust. Pretty much everything else offensive is treated the same way liberals in America go (i.e. get offended) but thats it.

>>74654238
That happens in Europe not here

>>74653748
to be honest, i think private conversation should be protected as free speech.
if somebody makes such jokes in public space its a different story

>>74654284
>American self awareness
Go shout "FIRE!" in a packed cinema, retard.

>>74654254
Yeah nobody's actually gives a fuck. The only people that got arrested for hate speech are actual Nazis (90+ year olds) that still spewed Hitler propaganda.

>>74654148
well summarized

>>74654321
Been there done that. Nothing happened

>>74654344
Because that's normal in America. Americans are shoked when they go see a movie and nobody shoots up the place.

>>74654344
Yes, just like the situation in the OP has happened without anything happening.
You're an intellectually dishonest piece of shit.

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>>74654281
>well the only thing that can get you in legal trouble here is
You are unable to reason.This is not a sport for you, brah.

The fact that this law exists already means MORE "hate speech" can be added later, if a government thinks it's appropriate.

Why is it you can mock dead people from Communism, Jihad or Cruzades but can't the Holocaust victims? Doesn't that seem a bit arbitrary to you? You either forbid it all or allow it all, they are similar instances of the same historical events.

>>74654328
>download this Disney copyrighted picture from 4chan
>get v&
Shut up, Ahmed. You wouldn't recognize freedom if I made a soup out of it and forcefed it to you.

>>74654409

No you are looking for something to shit on. America has free speech the rest of you don't. Just get over it and if you don't like it change something in your own country

>>74654328
>Arresting extremely elderly people

Why do Jews have no shame?

>>74654281
>But being on an imageboard shitposting with Americans while real life outside have different views really tears you apart, doesnt it? Like you cant decide who is right.

To quote the offspring.

>And the bottom line
>In all of this seems to say
>There's no right and wrong way
>Sorry if I don't feel like
>Living the way you do

I like knowing that dangerous ideas will be persecuted. We will see which system maintains freedom and democracy longer.

>>74654421
In Brazil the police is so corrupt you could literally kill someone without going to jail if you give them money. I'd rather live in a police state than a place without laws and gangs controlling the streets.

>>74654492
we have to arrest former nazis at least once every few years to remind the world we're still sorry about what happened

>>74654521
Then may your chains set lightly upon you( they won't you live in a country where the government its actively replacing its native population)

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>>74654521
Nice backpedalling, but corrupt people in Brazil LOVE the anti-freedom-of-speech agenda. That's how they get you out of the game if you're proving to be an obstacle to the crime machine.

We live in a society where constitutions are so elaborate, EVERYONE is guilty of some crime - it just takes the wrong people to want you jailed for it if you stick out too much.
There is no way this is a good system.

>100% freedom of speech can lead to hate slurs having real negative effects on people in terms of an increase in bullying, persecution, perhaps even death.

You had better start jailing people who look like Nazis. Mark my words. They are Nazis.

>>74654066
And it's a good thing when I can speak out against my government's shitty behavior then

>>74653748
>They say, if you make fun at minorities, you reinforce the norm that they can be stripped off their dignity, and you contribute to their dehumanization.

For fuck's sake, no one seems to be able to take a joke these days. Did they hurt anyone or cause any notable discomfort to those people? No, it was a private group posting black humour, the only thing this kind of censorship does is to reinforce everyone act like they were in a hivemind.

Why am I not allowed to have and express any controversial opinion? Wasn't that what the enlightenment was all about, tolerance?

>>74654148
>When you attack minorities, or deny genocide or promote ideology against democracy, then you have conflict.
>Because protecting minorities, maintaining the memory of genocide or protecting democracy are things western states are responsible for.
>Some states choose to let one obligation take precedent, some choose another.
How far will you take this? Sure, advocating an ethnic cleansing feels like something we're all comfortable shutting down, but would merely being a vocal Nativists be enough to get you in trouble? Is that sufficiently hostile enough to immigrants that it needs to be shut down? Is that creating a hostile environment?
This is where it gets dicey, because once you decide that you get to dictate the right opinions rather than letting discourse take it's roll, nothing is sacred.

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>>74654328
>The only people that got arrested for hate speech are actual Nazis (90+ year olds) that still spewed Hitler propaganda.

>>74654544
DisgustiNg.

I was reading about how a Nazi was the first female pilot and people were chimping out and going nuts as if they were getting holocausted

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>>74653748
Americans simply dont understand that there is a difference between free speech and hate speech

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>>74654544
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/03/09/women-of-aviation-event-organizers-defend-honouring-of-nazi-pilot.html

Women of Aviation event organizers say they won’t honour Nazi pilot Saturday

Organizers previously defended decision to celebrate Hanna Reitsch, the first female helicopter pilot, who was awarded the Iron Cross First Class by Adolf Hitler.

Organizers of an event celebrating the history of women in aviation this weekend in Quebec say they have agreed in writing not to mention or show images of the first woman to fly a helicopter following backlash over her Nazi connections.

The event, taking place Saturday in Lachute, Que., is part of Women of Aviation Worldwide Week, an annual celebration honouring women’s contributions to the aviation industry.

>>74654999
I hate the jews so fucking much

i wish we had freedom of speech in europe
because here is always either catholics or lefties screaming about being offended
no matter what you say

>>74654988
Europeans, Germans especially, cannot do ANYTHING in moderation.
Absolutely fucking nothing.

If you're not literal Hitler orchestrating the literal Holocaust, you're a communist dictatorship with a secret Police even Moscow thought was hardcore. And after all that when you decide to embrace "liberalism", it entails the demographic replacement of Europe and the curbing of freedoms to promote some sick twisted abomination of "tolerance".
Truly disgusting, only the Anglo New World can carry on Western Civilization.

>>74653968
Does outlawing weed cause people to stop smoking?
Outlawing free speech doesn't get rid of shit people, they just hide that they're shit.

>>74653748
>Why should freedom of speech be legal?
This is baid.
Thread hidden.

>>74655128
>Europeans, Germans especially, cannot do ANYTHING in moderation.
said the lardasses of the world lmao

>>74654943

>first female pilot
>Nazi

wut?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amelia_Earhart#Aviation_career_and_marriage

>>74655210
184cm, 70.3 kilograms

You?

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>>74654873

>rather than letting discourse take it's roll
>rather than letting discourse take it's roll
>rather than letting discourse take it's roll

You put a lot of faith in radical ideologies mellowing away once exposed to the broad public, don't you?

Those reminding us censorship is a slippery slope, needs to be reminded fascism is also a slippery slope. Germans didnt wake up one day and decide to put Jews in camps. It was the final result of a long slope of convincing people that Jews were a problem, a parasite leeching onto a host society and sucking away their fruits of labor. And people began to agree and from there on out you know the rest of the story.

this is why europe is shithole compared to great USA
this censoring euros here are disgusting
words cant hurt anyone,grow a thicker skin sorry excuses of a man

>>74654873
You say that, but the restrictions are as hard the law that defines freedom of speech.
Anti-immigration parties still exist and are as legal as ever, plenty of nationalists too.
Hate speech isn't something Germans redifine offhand and illegal parties often have direct relevance to an undemocratic one party regime (communist or nazi) in the recent past of the state. Parties don't get banned for no particular reason.

You're doing the slippery slope meme.

>>74654167
Don't forget about torturing "dissidents".

https://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2017/01/20/document-of-torture-one-chinese-lawyers-story-from-jail/

Why would anyone want their freedoms and thoughts taken away, unless they are dumb, and brainwashed by communists?

>>74655228
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanna_Reitsch

Helicopter pilot.

She was the only woman awarded theIron Cross First Class and the LuftwaffePilot/Observer badgein Gold with Diamonds during World War II. She set more than 40altitudeand endurance women's records inglidingbefore and after World War II. In the 1960s she founded a gliding school inGhana, where she worked for Kwame Nkrumah.

>>74655210
Not like Brazil can do anything in moderation.

Like poverty.

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>>74653748
>europeans

I cant take Europeans seriously

I personally don't see an issue with it, the law is not really a problem as people that wouldn't have a problem referring themselves to nazis are allowed speak and have their rallies, not without getting stigmatized from just about everyone sure but that's to be expected.

Inciting violence on the other hand would be covered by that law, the way i see it it's not that outrageous, it just happens to be labeled under free speech.

The media climate on the other hand is a different story, there's not enough middle ground, while the MSM is very left leaning the alternatives are very right leaning, too much us vs them, but that's not a problem exclusive to Sweden.

>call 911 and claim there's a fire
>get in trouble when there isn't and I just wasted their time
F-fucking Commies

>>74655658
I can't take seriously people posting frogs without the very beginning of a single argument

>>74655299
spooky skeletor

>>74655956
>Wasting emergency service resources is the same thing as saying mean things

Frog-rollingeyes.jpg

>>74656087
in an anglo point of view both are "just bantz"

>>74656087
Just doing a free speech. Not my fault they took it seriously.

>>74656061
Not quite, I can do over 65 situps in a minute, and 55 pushups as well.
I could once run a 5:30 mile
I can bench more than my bodyweight.

Well I mean it's not like you can just fire the head of the FBI and break the law all you want.

>>74655956
No, it's more like this:

>Worship God in your house, and not in designated government worshipping church.

>Arrested.


Or, my personal favorite:

>Think democracy could work, and could actually be a good idea.

>Arrested and tortured as a dissident.

I literally don't understand why people like China and Russia so much.

>>74655342
If it's allowed to get that far, it's not free speech that's at fault, it's your folk

>>74656317
Or the parasite's fault. :^)

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>>74656297
good one

>>74655381
>setting a precedent, and making something up for grabs
>gee I wonder where this'll go

>le slippery slope

>>74656087
This, not even close to what yuromarxists are asking for

I kind of like when freedom of speech gets restricted because the banned subject gets a lot more attention.

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>>74656428
>it's not really a fallacy if I put 'le' in front of it

>>74655381
Slippery slope is only a fallacy when used hyperbolically.

It's funny how you think nazi memes will bring WW3, but at the same time think that other people saying "restricting freedoms will bring Big Brother" is a fallacy.

Cognitive dissonance at its best.

>>74656297
To be fair, FBI was already fucked.
I'm absolutely fucking astonished that Hillary got away with what she did, the FBI was clearly partisan.

Here's hoping and praying it doesn't become partisan to the other end of the spectrum.

Why do Americans and Brits hate net neutrality, by the way?

>>74656517
>I can just ignore trends and records by just calling it a slippery slope
>everything's fine, it'll be fine

>>74653748
>this fucking commienazi

>>74656300
Do yanks seriously believe that Europe is like China or Russia? Can they only think in dichotomies and slippery slopes?

Using that logic, Ireland is just as bad as the Congo isn't abortions aren't freely available. Or America is Kenya tier due to gun control.

>>74656666
That's not fair, I doubt death by obesity is a big problem in Kenya

>>74656584
>trends
prove a trend where European (Germany for example) free speech laws have gotten more restrictive

>>74656834
Lmao holy shit
>Article 118 of the Weimar constitution forbade censorship with the text "No censorship will take place". An exception to this article was film. The film industry was regulated by the Film Assessment Headquarters. The purpose of this organization was to censor films released in Germany for pornography and other indecent content
>Censorship in Nazi Germany was extreme and strictly enforced by the governing Nazi Party. It was implemented by the Minister of Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels.[citation needed] All media—literature, music, newspapers, and public events—were censored. Attempts were also made to censor private communications, such as mail and even private conversation, with mixed results.

>>74656666
>Using that logic, Ireland is just as bad as the Congo isn't abortions aren't freely available. Or America is Kenya tier due to gun control.
Can spoon-buying Brits only think in terms of bringing things down to the lowest common denominator?

I already pointed out here >>74654167 there are successful countries with restrictions on freedom of speech, but Japan is an exception in Asia. And guess why? Because the USA support them. And what does USA also support? FREE SPEECH.
It's the best system to weed out the weak.

Eurocucks, not even once.

>>74656962
>Weimar
oh boy, you sure showed me, the system that let Hitler get in power.
Hmmn makes you think, doesn't it?

>>74657116
>moving the goalposts
And free speech was exactly what Hitler made sure to get rid of

>>74657044
>says the BR?

>>74657160
And the reason he was able to gain power was because of free speech. Hmm...

>>74657160
You first, show me how freedom is speech is becoming more restricted than it was in Germany.
Prove that there is a slippery slope and that Germany is sliding.

>>74657369
That's because the German people were fucked
The day we remove the moral responsibility of a populace, that's the day we lose it all

>>74657382
I already fucking showed you a historical example, and the chapter on unified Germany isn't over

Holocaust denial shouldn't be illegal, why are Jews the only people allowed to revise history?

>>74657528
The "historical example" is that a democracy became an autocracy and the autocracy was less liberal and less free.
It does bot prove any slippery slope. Hitler got elected and transformed Germany.

New Germany has had the new laws for decades, but somehow they've stayed the same. I'm sure your mind is blown.
No autocracy, no further restrictions. Woah

>>74657815
>I post an example of Germany doing exactly what you said
>It's not valid because you say so

>>74658673
>Germany has liberal free speech laws
>becomes dictatorship

>germany has less liberal free speech laws
>stays democracy

????????

>>74658783
Nice goalpost shift, but here, let me go by even your rules
>prove a trend where European (Germany for example) free speech laws have gotten more restrictive
When the official government, the Federal Republic of Germany (Bundesrepublik Deutschland) took over, these limits were relaxed. The new German constitution guaranteed freedom of press, speech, and opinion.
Then
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_section_86a

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>>74658783
Literally retarded.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/mar/14/social-media-hate-speech-fines-germany-heiko-maas-facebook

In Germany you get arrested for piracy, for Nazi imagery, for saying bad stuff about rapefugees and much more.
In Germany you either have Health Insurance or you have Health Insurance, there's no opting out.
In Britain you can't buy a knife and it's dangerous to have a TV without having cable.

How is that a functional society to you?

If you truly want to have fun, just follow this discussion:
https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/1847
tl;dr: Japan joined a "decentralized p2p" Twitter clone and know eurocucks are TREMBLING because Japan posting loli imagery might get THEM in prison for merely being a node in the network.

Kill yourself.

>>74658783
>>74657369
>Germans are retarded and elect the NSDAP, democratically
This is only the fault of the nation, not any policy
>Germans shut down free speech
>Orchestrate the fucking Holocaust

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why do euros hate freedom of speech

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>>74660008
Europe is officially over.

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Without free speech how could society be truly competitive with opposing sides suppressing each other over who is most offended?

>>74653748
Just recently we had a woman being sentenced to prison and to pay a fine, for saying the words "fucking nigger" to a black man.

I think freedom of speech should come before someone's feelings. You don't need protection from having popular opinions, you need protection for having unpopular opinions. This means that you should have protection from talking in a racist manner as well.

You can't have one political wing defining what kind of opinions should or should not be protected, or made illegal. That just won't work. But sadly that is what we're seeing in Norway today.

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>>74660008
>this is how Western Civilization dies

>>74660431
How do we save Norway?

>>74660510
I think USA should vassalize Norway.

Honestly, I think a problem in Norway is that only the left wingers are taking educations for becoming journalists, typically people who are idealists too. You see today that almost all Norwegian journalists are left wingers, and those who aren't are playing by the large number's rules for the most part. The politicians in Norway are not very powerful at all, which of course is a good thing. However, the journalists are. If you live in Norway and pay attention, you will see that the politicians never dare to do or say anything that is not popular among the journalists. Sure, you may have a majority of the people wanting something illegal such as niqab or burqa, but the journalists do not want that, and you then will see that no politician want it either. If a politician jumps the gun on some opinion or a suggestion, that has not yet been "discussed" in the media, and if the journalists do not like it, then the politicians will immediately turn around on said opinion/suggestion.

So you see, this is a big problem in Norway. How do we save Norway? I don't know, maybe by somehow making the field of journalism attractive to other people than just the left-wing ideologists?

>>74654281
So you can make jokes about other genocides right?

>>74654328
what ever happened to that German comedian who insulted Erdogan?

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>>74654421
>Why is it you can mock dead people from Communism, Jihad or Cruzades but can't the Holocaust victims
"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize"