Should Catalonia be an independent country?

>>73595818
it should be Greek

>>73595818
A better question: Do you want to deal with a new Yugoslavia?

>>73595863
What do you mean by that?

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>Caribbean-tier flag

>>73595848
But I AM Greek

>>73595848
Please go away.

>>73595863
spain is not even close to being as diverse as yugoslavia

>>73595890
We are like the UK. Several nations living in a same country, the real difference is that we live under a unitary state that is why we have so many problems with independentism and we hate each other so much.

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idk

>>73595895
>Caribbean-tier photoshop

>>73595914
millions of others in spain are not

>>73595964
why

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>ywn be Spanish masterrace

>>73595995
>Let me tell about your country.

Spain means literally Iberia. Spain was a kingdon when all the Iberians united. Traitortugals got independence because of Muh money.

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We will free Catalonia when we embark on our holy war and also give that top bit back to Portugal

>>73595818
Only if they fight for it, or are kicked out.

None of this referendum pussy bullshit.

>>73596011
We are far more diverse than the UK
And just about as sectarian btw, the whole Catalonia thing is peanuts compared to Ulster

>>73596075
Good for you

>>73596078
who even wants to gain independence from spain except for catalonians and 7 goatfuckers from basque country

>>73596075
i envy you desu

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>>73596170
They'd rather be independant and get annexed by us, that's the kind of aura we have

>>73596078
Traitortugals are just another kingdom, the dogs of the British
They were a tool the british used to harm Spain, wich was one of their main goals through history. At the same time that the british were giving portugal guns and tactics to fight spain, they were giving away their portuguese colonies to the dutch.

>>73596011
How many nations are there?

I only know about the catalonian independence movement.

>>73596170
>goatfuckers
We are sheepfuckers, get your facts straight t*rk

>>73595818
Nah

>>73595818
Yes.

T. Xabier

>>73596272
There's Basque as well.

>>73596158
>>73596193
Why are Spanish such self loathing fags? You are the nicest people on earth probably and your country is beautiful and lively and not dull like Sweden or Germany.

>>73596272
Like 6 more or less but we have been united so many time that except the scatalanians, the rest do not care a damn to be honest

>>73596272
Basques, galicians.
Valencians and Balearics were also a separate kingdom together with Catalonia and we still have a shared language and culture

I'm sure somebody will get buttmad at this

>>73596272
In the west: Gallaecia / Kingdom of Leon / Kingdom Astur-Leones (Portugal started as a Galician county)
In the east: Kingdom of Aragón (Modern day Aragón, Valencia, Balear islands, Catalonya)
In the middle Castille
thats the very simplified version

Technically, the Basque and the galician have a way older history and much more unique identity than the relatively modern "catalonya" wich has a language barely 400 years old, compared to the Galician texts wich were the first texts in the peninsula, and the Basque language that existed before Romans and even Indoeuropeans arrived

>>73596272
Scatalonians, Basques (Bombland), Galicians(muh celts and shit), Castillians (muh superior), Aragon (4chan in real life), Andalusia (muh we wuz arabs and shit) and so on....

>>73596485
>catalonya
What the fuck are you doing with your life

>>73596485
>>73596434
>>73596428
>>73596535
Seems like a big mess.

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>>73595818

>>73596587
For teh lols

>>73596574
Tell me about it.

>>73596485
>has a language barely 400 years old
(not true, by the way)

>>73596574
Its just the same than the UK
Spain = United Kingdoms of the Peninsula
Portugal was just another of the kingdoms

What's an actual mess is the retarded 17 communities policy that we have now. Having only 3-4 areas like the UK does would make things so much easier and manageable.

>>73596574
Nah, not really. You get used of it.

>>73596485
>>73596535
Why are you counting medieval kangdoms you dumb niggers?
Are there actually prominent seperatist Gallician, Leonese or Basque groups or are you just memeing us?

>>73596740
>Having only 3-4 areas like the UK does would make things so much easier and manageable.
It's too late now, try to merge Navarra and euskadi and half of Navarra will lose their shit, same with Valencia and Catalonia. Federalism a la Germany would be a more sensible choice

>>73596768
We still have different cultures and traditions and yes there are independentist movements from Andalusia to Galicia. Welcome to the Yugoslavia which never died.

>>73596768
>Are there actually prominent seperatist Gallician, Leonese or Basque groups
Yes. Shit the basques were literally shooting and blowing shit up not that long ago

>>73596740
"Las Españas/As Espanhas" used to be the name given to all the kingdoms, even. You guys just claimed the name either out of spite, ignorance or expectation that we'd be included as well and now it's all weird.

>>73596858
>same with Valencia and Catalonia
What's the deal with those two? Don't they both speak Catalan? Were they not a part of Navarra or Aragon, or whatever it was?

>>73596858
It would be funny. Imagine the reaction of andalusians and castillians if we put them together. Literally second civil war.

>>73596933
Valencia hates Catalonia and vice versa though they are the same people.

Sorry valencians but it is true.

You guys have been bitching about this for years, just do it already.

You have our support.

>>73596993
Which of them do the Baleares like?

>>73597039
T. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyFLm3pzhuk

>>73596933
They both speak Catalan, but some Valencians insist that they speak a different language because they ended up hating Catalonia somehow.
As a catalan speaker that is neither from Catalonia nor Valencia the whole thing is an ambarassment for every part involved

>>73597059
Baleares hate both. Catalonians are sectarian cunts.

>>73597059
Neither and both.
We don't really give many fucks about mainland Spain but at least these guys speak our language and are geographically close to us

>>73597183
>>73597167
>>73597096
>They all hate each other
You guys are even more Spanish than the rest of them.

>>73597267
>Not hating everybody including yourself
You're not thinking like a Spaniard here

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>>73597326
Which, in turn, is the Portuguese-est thing ever.

>>73597374
I was going to say Iberian actually, but I don't know enough about Portugal. Glad to see we are still the same shit in so many ways

How to solve the overcomplicated 17 communities system

>New Gallaecia
Put Galicia, León, Cantabría and Asturies together

>Bigger Andalucia
Put Andalucia and Murcia together. Put Ceuta & Melilla under Andalucian jurisdiction.

>Big Castille
Merging the 2 Castilles, Madrid, and Extremadura into a big central area

>New Aragón
Put all former Kingdom of Aragon areas together (Aragón, Cataluña, Valencia, Balear islands) Maybe add Navarra

>Basque country stays the same

>Canary Islands stay the same

>>73596935
>Spanish Education
it would be the 3rd Civil War. 1936 was the 2nd.

>>73597446
I mean, "Not thinking like a Spaniard" is the Portuguese-est thing ever.

For all our faults we only had one major Civil war that ended up fairly quickly, and we never had any inside oppression for virtue of being a very monolithic and homogeneous country.

Hating Spaniards is indeed something we both share, though :^)

>>73597497
>2nd
If we count succession war and carlist shenanigans we can really pump up those numbers

>>73597560
gotcha, lmao

>>73597374
Portuguese people don't hate their own nation as much as we do by far
we are the best at hating ourselves, to the point that chanting "España" on a TV show would lead people to believe everyone on that show is a neonazi fascist

>>73597497
Damn, you just managed to make Andalucia an even bigger shithole. Quite the feat desu

>>73597686
Every country needs a containment area.

>>73597667
We don't. See >>73597560

We're very united, despite some internal banter and we stay together. I guess that carried over to America as well.

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>>73596427
They are Catalans in disguise.

>>73597497
>tfw so many civil wars that we are unable to count them correctly.

>>73597497
>Navarra with the Catalans instead of with the Basques
For what purpose

>>73597832
The 1st world war was actually the 2nd one, since in the Seven year war, there was war in (almost?) all continents.

Do pre-unification wars between the kingdoms count for Spanish civil war, I wonder? Does the one in Catalunha during/right before Portuguese re-institution of independence?

>>73595818
Nuke this shithole and kill all Catalaniggers

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>Spain is doing well, conquering the world
No Separatism, Catalans benefi from colonization no problem
>Spain is doing well, entering the EU
No Separatism, Catalan industries thrive
>Spain enters the 2008 crisis, dificult times when we need to stary strong and united
HELP WE ARE OPPRESSED, DONT WANNA PAY TAXES

Why are Catalans such Jews?

>tfw you actually learned something from reading this thread

WTF? I thought /int/ was just for shitposting

>>73597955
Sucession war
first carlist war
Second carlist war
Third carlist war
Spanish civil war.

I know there are some more. We love killing each other.

>>73598076
Yeah, there were tons of alzamientos. Also the comuneros revolt, irmandiños war and there were many civil wars in Castile like the Isabel vs Juana or Pedro vs Enrique.

>>73597953
i heard navarrans dont like basque
>>73598032
Catalans and Andalucians are the spoiled kids that get all the funds while the more obedient regions get nothing

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>>73595818
no. Catalans are degenerates. there is no more degenerate place in the world than Barcelona. public drug use, public sex, and more are excessively common. the best course of action is the wholesale genocide of Catalans and to replace them with generic Castilians.

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Reminder Catalonia used to love bullfighting as much as the next guy until it became a worldwide symbol of Spanish culture.

pic unrelated

>>73598252
>there is no more degenerate place in the world than Barcelona. public drug use, public sex, and more are excessively common
I wish this was true desu

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>>73595818
no

>>73598252
wtf i love Barcelona now

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>>73598331
Don't you worry we still love torturing bulls

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>Modern day Catalonia

>>73595818
Independent province*

>>73598058
You can now use this knowledge to trigger almost any spanish poster in this board

>>73598438
its like the Paris of Spain

>>73598518
Look at any region, city, street or neighborhood and see if they want independence.

>>73598783
Independant nation of Barcelona, non barcelonese OUT!

>>73598844
I am in independant nation of 3rd street fuck off colonist imperialists.

>>73598900
>>73598844
>>73598783
>It's american prime time already
Welp, I'm out

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>>73597497
Alava, Cantabria and part of Valencia and Murcia are Castile

>>73595818
What's the point? Added tensions and possibly a failed state all for "muh independence" is a dumbass idea.

>>73595895
>Puerto Rican Vietnam

lol

>>73595818
It should be part of France

>>73596292
Fuck off cunt. The welsh and us are sheepfuckers. Get your own animal to sodomise

>>73600285

FUCK OFF

They're already cancerous enough, we don't want more them


To know how cancerous they are look at "Manuel Valls" and "Anne Hidalgo"

>>73595995
you're an idiot
serbs and croats are basically the same except religion

>>73596768
yes there are
i know a galician dude, very nationalist

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yes, yes it should

>>73596264
>they were giving away their portuguese colonies to the dutch.
that's not true. the dutch started to go to all our shit. we expelled them from brazil and africa but couldn't from indonesia. since we couldn't convert the locals either and the japanese hated us being there, we just took the eastern timor bit and called it a game

>>73599502
>England stay united
>While France is divided according to meme region

Not gonna happen, Nigel :))))

spain should just federalize like a grown up country desu

>>73595895
>that 5-day photoshop course tho

>>73601450
Fucking Spain.

We could've had Australia. Imagine the memes.

>>73601581
spain ruined everything good we had going on

>>73596264
> they were giving away their portuguese colonies to the dutch.
No,actually it was the iberian union that fucked us.
The dutch-portuguese war started in 1601 during the iberian union,before that england,the dutch and portugal were in good terms.
Right after we did the restauration of independence the british rushed in to restart the alliance.
Our alliance with the english has nothing to do with defeating spain.
They only sent 100 bowmen during the battle of aljubarrota.
>dogs of british
funny,if we're the dogs of the british then you must be the prostitute of france the way you bent you knee and sucked on napoleon's dick.
We could have just accepted the napoleon continental blockade on the british but we declined and honored our alliance with the british.You let the french cross your land and invade us and then you get invaded.
You're all latino hot headed bum fucks with a digusting language.
Inferior scum.You'll never understand our melancholic and saudade nature nigger

>>73601661
Would you like some fries with that salt portubro?

>>73601661
best post in this thread quite actually
i mean spaniards are bros but they are truly retarded sometimes

>>73601707
amazing retort! all you needed was a smiley meme to go along with it

>>73601631
Portugal ruined everything good algarve had going on

>>73597446
We don't like being in a group with spain desu.
Even the name ''iberia'' triggers me.
I don't like sharing the peninsula with you.Would be better if we could kill every single spanish or at least the male and rape the women and then kill them.
Maybe the galician would survive but only the ones who can speak like us.
Honestly you never see us act more hostile to you because we're just more civilized than you.Every portuguese lowkey hates the ''spanish'' people.

>>73601716
Nobody is sane south of the Pyrinees

>>73601760
that's because that's where africa begins

>>73601752
Okay mordechai, reason for hatred?

>>73601784
Inshallah, brother

>>73601747
Yes,we destroyed the mosques and converted some into churches.Did that trigger the spanish?

>>73601752
we should just be an island already

>>73601811
Yes
Bring Al-Andalus back, make Iberia great again

>>73601811
Free algarve, free lisbon

>>73601863
wtf are you even talking about

>>73601742
:^)

>>73601878
Lisbon for Lisbonese you Portuguese pig dogs don't even talk like Lisbon people.

>>73601901
how is that even supposed to trigger anyone

>tfw I just wanted to shitpost in Catalan but this turned into a Portuguese thread
Control your autism guys

>>73601444
>talk to people from Mallorca
>they HATE Catalonia
Why?

>>73601952
>Spaniard can't even do shitposting right
Que grande conas.

>>73601794
''spaniards'' are inferior,they speak a disgusting language that wasn't blessed with the suebi.
Their actions precede their hot-headed,latino,potentially moorish behaviour that they exported to their colonies.
It's a mishmash of different people,languages,culture that blend into a brown disturbing soup.
Everytime we speak with a brazilian we always have an edge because our dialect is superior and with the spaniards the same is true,galicians all suck on our nuts and are always in awe at our accent that they lost.

In hoc signo Portucale vince

>>73601952
i like catalans, they're nice people
not from barcelona tho

>>73601968
Mallorcan here
Fuck if I know, probably because of muh evil separatists want to annex us and claim us as catalan

>>73601976
Portuguese are inferior lisbonese speak the standard that is normal, independence for lisbon from portuguese.

>>73602038
most portuguese people would actually be happy with that, you're terrible with bait

>>73602038
Fuck off, why are you even here?

>>73602038
Mate, Lisbon's accent is the same as most of the country, what are you on about?

Coimbra is from the North (barely), and it has virtually the same accent.

>>73602038
Here's the portuguese independence movements:

>>73602104
Please take back Galicia

>>73602104
Because it is illegal, and people are brainwashed by Portuguese, Lisbon nation for Lisbon, algarve nation for algarve.

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Guys,peace and love please.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoLIsbSkBYY

>>73600285
We already have enough leftards here.

>>73602141
You guys don't appreciate them. They drink and eat fish like us.

>>73602149
No
I came here for blood

>>73602176
Tbh,the north is more known for the meat.

>>73602196
both actually
codfish started in the north

>>73602149
portugal more like POORtugal

pay denbt

>>73602196
Only because the North isn't as litoralised as the Beiras or the South.

Cold-water fish usually tastes better.

>>73602196
Nah Galicia is all about seafood and shellfish

>>73602149
desu i love spain and spaniards are bros
can't speak much about catalans but spain really needs to federalize for real

>>73602148
You are a traitor to algarve if you accept Portugal.

>>73602225
Verpiss dich Guiri, und fick dich selbst in deine Scheißearsch

>>73602253
Separatist protesters Amanda needs to be made illegal I support strong centralization but I love local power and such.

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VIVA

>>73602253
>spain really needs to federalize for real
Why do something right when you can just half ass it?
That would be un-spanish

>>73602326
i wonder what madrilians think of federalization

>>73602253
>federalize
If spain give a hand,catalunya,galicia,and basque county take the arm off

>>73602379
>i wonder what madrilians think
You are not the first one desu

>>73602398
they don't have enough power for that, at least not galicia nor basque country

>>73602308
>protesters (...) needs to be made illegal I support strong centralization but I love local power and such.
How's that ruptured aneurysm going for you?

>>73602419
The Basque country is rich as fuck and about the only place with real industry left in this country.
If Catalonia and Euskadi left we would be severely fucked

>>73602398
I take it you are from lisbon and/or a full supporter of centralization even though it violates the rights of all people who stand to lose with it (and is inefficient nowadays)

>>73602480
yes but the majority of euskadi doesn't want to leave
catalonia yes but if federalization happened you would be throwing them a bone to be happier

>>73602450
Strong centralization while respecting localities, but not weakening the collective power of nation.

>>73602518
an oxymoron

>>73602515
Yeah I don't see that happening anytime soon. I was just saying

>>73602532
Nope.

>>73602498
I'm from Porto and I want galicia out of spain.

>>73602518
>Strong centralization while respecting localities
Goddamnit America

>>73602547
that's because madrid is scared shitless and just wants them to shut up
which is a typical castillian reaction

>>73602518
Does not compute
Whenever a conflict of interest arises between the central state and the regions of a country, which is every single day and almost every single decision of fund allocation, the state will decide in favor of itself if it believes it will get away with it.

You're an embarrassment to the flag your posts are showing, since that flag stands for something better than what you said.

No more brother war's, all over iberia, all over europe

>>73602578
>he took two whole minutes to figure out what an oxymoron is using google
jesus christ you people are hialrious

>>73602581
>I'm from Porto and I want galicia out of spain.
They would do very well on their own. But what would you gain from it?

I would have to be a very bad person to encourage any Galician to join Portugal, and I'm not evil enough to suggest it.

>>73602617
Respect in regards to power and rights decided somewhat by localitites of things not crucial to be centralized.

>>73602587
Tbh I've come to believe that ignoring them may be the best strategy
Every self-imposed deadline they fail to deliver, every empty threat they can't foow through is a blow to popular support. Meanwhile by taking catalan politicians to court all they are doing is throwing fuel into the wildfire.

>>73602671
things not crucial are completely irrelevant to the local functioning of the communities you dumbass

>>73602700
they are really not handling the situation well
i mean i understand the reaction but cmon federalization isn't the end

>>73602671
The localitites need their share of development but centralization will allow much greater development to all provinces as a single province doesn't have the manpower or resources to reach the development granted by a central state.

>>73602741
I much prefer provinciation.

>>73602755
we already have the EU for development

>>73602741
Dunno, as I see it either the catalans get tired of the independence issue and vote a non-nationalist government eventually or they radicalize and start fucking shit up for real, which is not really their style.

Not Catalan, but been living in Barcelona for 4 years, btw

>>73602808
that's what they have and it's not working well

>>73602822
i'm pretty sure they're going to use this to lick EU's boots when the scottish referendum comes in

>>73602671
>>73602755
That's all fine in theory but in practice a central state will always allocate resources to favor itself whenever it possibly can, and Portugal, being the most centralized country in Europe (the continent, not just the EU) is a prime example of why you are wrong and we are right.

In practice centralization breeds corruption and the violation of regional rights and constitutional rights for equality. In the past the benefits from some centralization outweighed these cons, but not anymore.

>>73602808
You would be the first one. Everybody agrees that our territorial system is a clusterfuck, but nobody can agree on how to change it

>>73602858
As I said strong centralization while respecting localitities.

>>73602897
they should just let the each province vote: do you want to remain a province or do you want to be a state?
in the end you'd probably have 4 or 5 states and gigantic one in the middle with bits and pieces everywhere

>>73602851
The EU won't do shit for Catalans, they have nothing to win and nobody is going to risk pissing off Spain which is still a relatively important player in the EU

>>73602931
oxymoron

>>73602931
Are you daft?

>>73602931
Yes and Marx said Communism would respect the proletariat, but in the end the one major caveat is that designing a political system based on abstract values is just stupid, because once you take into consideration the human element, the political class will always favor itself if it believes it can get away with it, and Communism comes crashing down from all those inefficiencies.

But like I said, I have experience with the most centralized country in Europe and you don't, you're wrong and there can be no such thing.

>>73602979
i wouldn't be so sure, the EU might push for a federalization or at least for a "stop ignoring them, this clearly isn't working out for anybody"

>>73602979
The EU is motivated by irrational insane ideology too, people always disregard the pure ideological motivation it has on top of the rational one.

>>73603021
The situation is not that bad... yet
Madrid can dictate the tenpo for now and stretching this as long as possible simply favours them in them for now. Although I agree that the Spanish government is playing a dangerous game.

>>73603097
Tempo*

>>73603097
>>73603133
anything can happen 2bh
scots might suddenly push for catalan independence
or something else entirely different comes along that completely changes the game
madrid isn't playing a safe game and its options are running out

>>73596535
>Aragon (4chan in real life)

Thanks for the summary. What do you mean with "4chan in real life"?

>>73603202
I don't know what this guy was on about,
Aragon is as unremarkable as it gets. They only have a reputation for being the rednecks of Spain I guess