Thoughts?

>>72988942
If they're all women then ok.

>>72988942
Shoot them, EU

>this isn't even fake news

Jesus fucking Christ. I never thought I'd see the collapse of European/Western civilization in my lifetime, but at that pace, that will do it.

How Europeans still support the EU after a million migrants is beyond me, but this has to make them react, doesn't it? It's nothing short of an existential threat. A population replacement. Cultural and demographic genocide.

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yeah let them all in

>>72988942
got out just in time

Refugees welcome.

There's absolutely no way that the boats won't be stopped, our leaders don't have the political capital to allow them in

>>72988942
Good.My wifes daughter (male) loves the bbc

>>72989192
Should have offered to guarantee stable trade for five years with anyone who would leave with you.

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>>72988942
>>72989148
>The Camp of the Saints (Le Camp des Saints) is a 1973 French novel by Jean Raspail. The novel depicts a setting wherein Third World mass immigration to France and the West leads to the destruction of Western civilization.
>predicts a Latin American pope who loves refugees
>predicts leftists who believe refugees will enrich western civilization
>1973

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>>72988942

>>72988942
Come to Japan

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>>72988942
White europeans need them for their cuckold fantasies.

>>72989048

They're all men, 100% of them

Enjoy, pekka

>>72989148
>How Europeans still support the EU after a million migrants is beyond me, but this has to make them react, doesn't it?
If you'd read news outside of /pol/ circlejerks then you'd knew the EU has been reacting to it for years. Frontex is getting more and more budget with every budget cycle, they get more authorities, the border laws keep getting stricter and the EU is constantly lobbying in North Africa to get the local dictators on board to help detain these people on the north african coast.
The overwhelming majority of people who try to come from africa to europe don't even make it on the boats, and most of those that do are being towed back to north africa.
The fact that stil a ton reach our shores should clarify the frightening dimension of this migration movement, but its not like the EU hasn't noticed the problem. The far more severe isue is the refusal of countries like italy and greece to follow european borderlaws and detain and process the information of these people in their country and then send them back if they aren't legitimate asylum seekers. Instead they just get send through, but there is no punishment mechanism (for obvious reasons) for this sort of law breach so there is nothing the EU can do about that hole unless they get more authority.

>>72988942
2 million will be in hungary.

>>72988942
You keep on posting so much of this shit.

>>72989449
>Push the button Pekka!

>>72989927
but it takes decades to get more stricter lol, you can get more stricter in just few days, hitler related, literally government is showing you taht htey are working on solutions while they don't give a single fuck.

>>72989731
But then we'll have many perfect new spots for african sex tourism!

>>72989951
30 million is The Benelux. Half of the UK. Or entire Scandinavia.

>>72989981
No this anon posted another thread like this around 15 minutes apart from another one.

>>72989970
>but it takes decades to get more stricter
Not really, European common border security has gotten a lot tighter in the last few years alone with visible reduction of immigration over the mediterrainian central route.

>you can get more stricter in just few days
No you can't when you are a conglomerate of 28 nations and one of these nations has literally seen it as their mission to prevent you from getting that authority you need to deal with these problems.

Japan should accept EU citizens as refugees. Japan will be the new Europe, let Africans have the old one.

>>72989148
How is EU to blame for refugees?

>>72990030
This is the first thread I made in weeks desu

>1600 - europeans go to north america to escape conflicts and famine in their homeland
>2017 - africans go to europe to escape conflicts and famine in their homeland

No diference really, stop being racist

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>>72990055
that's your problem, you are waiting EU you are not acting yourself (your government), EU doesn't give a fuck about you don't you unuderstand lel.

>you can't get stricter in a few days
pic related

>>72990099
well what happened to native americans ^^
if they were racists and btfo-d europeans (they couldn't) they would've been still alive with their own state religion and culture. history teaches us m8

I unironically believe the EU should consider it an act of war. And should just drone refugee boats.

>>72990076
West european corporate giants and western economic organisations are sabotaging african development for their own benefit, and EU is complicit in this. But smaller european countries and companies are pretty insignificant in all of this and receive disproportionate blame.

>>72990146
>that's your problem, you are waiting EU you are not acting yourself (your government)
Thats wrong though, Merkel alone has spend a huge part of her last term in office securing agreements on migration blocks with north african countries and engineered the (extremly bitter) agreements with turkey. But there is only so much someone can do who isn't a EU border country.

>EU doesn't give a fuck about you
The Eu isn't a cohesive entity atm, thats exactly the problem. of course they don't give a fuck about me, they only give a fuck about their own nation and fuck thesemlves over in the process because these retards don't grasp that thats aggravating the problem for them too.

>>72990099
Europeans went to North America brcause of the giant amount of potentially untapped resources.

If Africans and people from Western Asia want that, they should be staying where they are and learning to make a stable government.

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>>72990208
idk what's wrong with you, yesterday i read news taht german girl got raped and killed and their parents said that they were very sad but he shouldn't be punished and they should still support migration.

>>72988942
let them come they all want to go to sweden germany and the uk.

>>72990253
Yesterday I read that Georgians invite russian soldiers across the border to fuck their wives for them

>>72990253
>t. thing that totally happened
Probably like that """"russian girl"""" that got """""killed""""" by refugees.
Don't be retarded. Of course those animals commit crimes, but they are detained in camps for the most part and when they do, they get punished. That fictional story of yours is kinda irrelevant to the conversation of what goverments do.

>>72990289
kek, nice bait m8.
at least what i said was true m8 http://prntscr.com/eqo2ym
https://www.infowars.com/afghan-refugee-confesses-to-rape-murder-of-19-year-old-german-girl/

>>72990395
>at least what i said was true m8
>completly unsourced claim by a agendaist propaganda site
You should stop believing everything the internet tells you m8.
Maria Ladenburg was killed in 2016 and their parents made no such statement.

>>72990444
It is published in 2016 -_-
so it happened then

>>72990492
So you're gonna ignore the part where the claim they asked for the cultprit to not be punished is entirely fabricated?

Nexit

Why simply not shoot all trespassers and make a propaganda for locals to report every foreigner without ID to police? Where is coast guards?
Why not remove free gibs for foreigners who never worked a day in your country? Why is it so? Christian mentality?
Why do niggers simply go over the fence in North African Spanish enclave territories and stay as refugees? Why no one shoots them?

>>72990513
m8 it's not even written there i wrote it to b8 u
but they raised funds for migrants, further supporting them lol, because they work in EU and they are careerists seems like they couldn't care less about their daughter.

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>>72990576
>christian mentality

>>72990582
>but they raised funds for migrants
They already did that before, they just didn't stop, and why would they? if a student murders someone should all student aid be abolished?

We need to keep those refugee centers running until we could deport them out of the country, because we don't really have other options. If we'd gass them all poland would get huffy again.

If you want to get mad at mentally ill leftist scum you should be mad at those retards that have sea-rescue services in the mediterrain and help refugee boats to reach the european shore. Those guys are a actual problem. But its not a problem caused or enabled by the EU.

>>72990606
Western Christianity aims to help the ones who struggle while oriental Christianity is about to help the ones of your own kin. I suppose it is something like that.

>>72990576
>Why do niggers simply go over the fence in North African Spanish enclave territories and stay as refugees? Why no one shoots them?
Actually they did, it just didn't help, they kept coming. Maybe they should have used lethal rounds rather than extremly painful rubber rounds, but sadly we are held back by humanitarian values.

>>72990576
>Why not remove free gibs for foreigners who never worked a day in your country?
They don't. They just feed and house them because having them live on the streets would be much worse.

>Why simply not shoot all trespassers and make a propaganda for locals to report every foreigner without ID to police?
??? We have no problem with finding the refugees. Putting them back is the problem.

>Where is coast guards?
Overworked and backstabbed by the border countries like italy.

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>>72990659
seems like russia doesn't need our help anymore, it's germany, too bad i don't have stalin blood/charisma.

>>72988942
for some reason, my thoughts center around D-day

>>72990741
It should, thats when the zionist slave armies stopped europes last hope of preventing this future.

>>72990576
Jews look white so they influence the consensus of white people to align with their globalistic agenda i.e. flood Europe with shitskins

>>72990677
lol it doesn't it does nothing to have with religion, western christianity aimed to destroy eastern christianity always envious of it's power >byzantine empire was stronger then every christian country combined before 11th century
it's just neo liberalism that aims to *help* others.

>>72990710
Well, if there were no gibs, o one would ever come to Europe. Look at US, people migrate to America to get a better job, not to leach off state.

Fuck yeah

How about we change continents? The africans get our cold inhospitable continent, and we get their warm, fertile continent that has an unimaginable amount of natural ressources.

In a few decades Africa would be the richest continent on earth.

Then they'd want back though.

>>72990812
people go to europe to get a better job too, i mean us ex communist countries.

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>>72990851
There are lots of ghost cities built in China atm, no one lives in them tho. Will there be a mass exodus of europeans to China?

>>72990812
>Well, if there were no gibs, o one would ever come to Europe.
I fucking wished, but the reality is that there are people in african and ME countries deliberatly spreading misinformation about supposed welfare wealth to be gained in europe to make them move there and there is little to nothing you can do against the human will to delude themselves.
The don't actually get any 'gibs' they are housed and given food because having a milion starving beggars on the streets is ten times worse than just having refugees.

> Look at US, people migrate to America to get a better job, not to leach off state.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Go ask our american friends about how "good" the wellfare leech to "hard worker" ratio is with their immigrants.

>>72990800
>it's just neo liberalism that aims to *help* others.
Neo liberalism doesn't want to help anyone but themselves. They only are in favour of immigrants because adressing the 'actual' problems making these people flee their homes would be difficult, while their "immigrants welcome" nonsense isn't.

>>72990908
Nothing wrong with it. All ex-soviet people who migrate to EU are skilled workers, engineers and scientists because no one needs them here. And maybe some toilet cleaners who come to Poland.

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Let them come, i have been studying blade for past 3 years, in 1 hit i slay 2 negroes

No countries wants them in anyway. Even "tolerant" Scandinavia shut the borders.

>>72990931
>>72990800
Neoliberalism is economical, not social, stop using the redneck yank political dictionary.

>>72990994
You, Denmark and Finland didn't take in anyone.

>>72990787
Jews looks pretty caucasian to me sooo.

>>72991104
>t. Shlomo Goldsteinberg

As long as they are productive members of society I see no problem.

And they must also be tall, muscular with big dicks.

t. swedish woman

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>>72991104
>caucasian

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>>72991104
If he wasn't wearing jewhat and glasses you would just think this guy was a gyppo or turk

>>72991137
he meant white
caucasian means white
>>72991011
there is a big difference between original liberalism and modern liberalism so i called it neo liberalism don't know what fatties call it tbqh
>>72990966
ikr

>>72991196
Is Kadyrov white? Well, he has grey eyes, pale skin and brown hair. 100% by american standards.
Also americans seem not to differentiate practicing religious jews and jews by ancestry too.

>>72991270
idk what your standards are for white, from western european standard's slavs aren't white as well. i myself believe in a more of historical approach.

>your next door neighbour will leave in your lifetime
Finally some good news

>>72990851
I can believe people who've never been to Africa seriously think this

>>72991320
Racial segregation isn't why we hate eastern europe, it's literally all communism. And before that, orthodoxy.

>>72991196
neoliberalism refers to liberalism in the economical sense as in open markets, deregulation and lack of interference in the economy from the government.
it's right wing in nature though the left has adopted it as well, to the betrayal of their voter base.
I would point to it as the source of the 'new right's surge in popularity.

>>72991320
Strictly saying if you are not anglo-saxon protestant, you are not 'white' in US originally, but filthy anglos have achieved pretty god results in menthal gymnastics on par with jews.

>>72988942

gg no re

>>72991374
sorry man you are northern european, neither we nor other ex soviet states care about what you think of us, we mostly care about germoney and france for obvious reasons. +proud to be orthodox and not childrapist catholics/protestants

>>72991376
well you got my point.

>>72991362
If you took all Euros and exchanged them for all Africans then Africa would be prospering and Europe would quickly turn to shit.

You see its not the geography, its the people living there.

>>72991461
Not really, we'd be dead because white skin absorbs too much sun. They'd be pretty miserable too since black skin doesn't absorb enough.

>Oh no, the migrants are going to flood and destroy Europe

No, they won't. Just give it a decade or so and you'll have another one of the countries pull an ethnic cleansing and the problem will be solved when every one of it's neighbours shares its concerns and sympathizes, unlike last time.

>>72991532
You shouldn't talk about things that oyu only know about from internet pop trivia.

First of all black people in europe would have no problem because they aren't agracultural communities and thus gain their Vitamin D supplementation from animal meat like our ancestors did before white skin had developed.

Secondary, europeans in africa would have bigger adaptation issues but solar blockers exist and not every part of africa is so sunny that simple tanning wouldn't solve the problem. A bigger issue would be that the heat would make us iberia style lazy because the pressing heat does that to people.

Shoot them all.

>>72991581
>when every one of it's neighbours uses that opportunity to vent their repressed genocidal urges for fellow europeans and massacres them despite them acting in their best interest, like the last time
FTFY
Europeans have no sympathy for eachother.

>>72991651
Considering how few people practice basic hygiene I think hourly solar blockers is too much to ask. And Vitamin D from meat isn't near enough to compensate, even people with white skin get too little Vitamin D once you go too far north.

>>72990067
so we can ruin Japan as well?
Japan for the japanese.

>>72991651
Afrikaaners are very hard working and successful I hear.

>>72991723
>And Vitamin D from meat isn't near enough to compensate
Yes it is. Its how our ancestors did it for millenia.

>>72988942
I am totally Ok with this.

>>72991362
I have to agree with what he said about ressources, Africa is jam packed full of everything.
Thing is they can't exploit them properly.

>>72990851
no matter how many africans go to europe, the african population will keep rising.

>>72991773
When they are done with us, they come for you next raska

>>72991752
>Ancient man
>No vitamin deficiency

Have you seen their remains?

>>72991171
look at the little jew's hands

>>72988942
Ahahahahahahhaha

>>72991800
Yes, they lived perfectly healthy until the agrarian shift which led to the development of farmers and THOSE guys had shitty health because they lacked the vitamin supplementation of regular meat diet until animal husbandry came along.

You need to realise that "white-skin" as we know it is a development of the last 8k years, while humans had spread already pretty much across the globe by that point.

>>72988942
Thank you Merkel.

>>72991735
Make the criteria strict, no one can enter Japan before mastering about 30k words.

>>72991789
Only if they want to freeze to death in winter.

>>72991905
>implying they are smart enough to care

>>72991651
>modern africans are hunter-gatherers
did you study in america, kevin?

>>72991939
... Where did I say they were? Are you drunk again?

Just shoot the boats and let the monkeys drown

>>72991962
>they aren't agricultural communities.
Then what they are? Postindustrial?

>>72992090
They figured out animal husbandry if nothing else already. Pretty sure even africans would manage to keeo the factories running to some degree, so they'd certainly be at least partially industrailised.

>>72989927
>>72990184
>>72990659
>>72992062
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCKuqQ7yi1Q

I don't get the big deal with you. They look very white to me.

>>72992150
yeah that's considered white in 56%land

>>72992197
My thoughts exactly. The Afrikaans are ethnically similar to white people. Why would the white people in Europe turn them away?

>>72992274
afrikaans are dutch.
they live a lavish life there, why would they go to europe, they hav big estates etc, just google whites in south africa.

>>72990055
>in the last few years alone with visible reduction of immigration over the mediterrainian central route.
Meanwhile Frontex who are "doing something about it" are basically running a taxi service for smugglers along with other "helpful" people taking economical migrants from just outside the shore of Africa all the wya to Europe.

Way to fucking go.

>>72992364
yeah, nobody helped poor vikings to raid english, finnish and baltic shores, life is so unfair, isn't it ?

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>>72988942
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

theres nothing i can do, why does eu allow this

>>72992406
Strong independant vikings who don't need to taxi.

>>72988942
30 mn people are nothing considering europe's population of almost 600 mn.

It's alright, all of them will head to Italy, Spain, France and Germany. It krauts try to pull something through EU it will just dissolve the union because all the smaller countries will vote to leave. The likely economic penalties are still nowhere as severe as the possibility of africans becoming the majority.

>>72992510
i like the terms swedes use
>strong independent.
aren't your women use that a lot
>i am strong independent woman i don't need you.

>>72991789
we already have millions of middle asians here

>>72991789
*Stalin when capitalists are done with us they will come for you*
2 days later molotov ribbentrop pact signed.

>>72988942
Enjoy your continent collapsing.

>>72988942
Push the boats back where they came from.

>>72988942
We need a stronger military presence and more humanitarian aid in africa.
Only by creating stable countries in africa we can prevent from the refugees fleeing to Europe

>>72989396
I thouht its from the 60's but yeah....

>>72992995
but having military is racist :(

>>72990931
>don't actually get any 'gibs'
>they are housed and given food

>>72993177
Well, as you might now, there is a growing right-wing sentiment in Germany
I think we could use this voting block to justify a stronger military

>>72992995
You're implying they are actually fleeing from any wars. They're not being pushed, they're being pulled by our gibs

>>72992995
nononono
we dont need to do any of that
please dont

they arent european
they dont think like us
they dont have the same habits like us
stop pushing our idea down their throat
let them be
and dont let them in

>>72992995
>Only by creating stable countries
No one is seriously going to allow african countries to employ extreme protectionism to develop their industries or pay reasonable prices for african material exports.

>>72993214
They are fleeing because there is no perspective in African countries.
That's why I think it is important that we help to establish stable countries in Africa. Then corporations will invest money there and create job opportunities, reducing the need of the people to flee to EU.

>>72993274
African countries wouldn't be able to do that, if they are reliant on our development aid and military peacekeeping.

>>72988942
so this the result of the African bulge

Who decided that they should come to Europa?

>>72993378
>inb4 some butthurt russians come and blame it on stalin and georgian conspiracy
or
>inb4 some butthurt americans come and blame it on jewish conspiracy.

>>72993308
>Then corporations will invest money there and create job opportunities
Hahahaha no.

>>72993378
They did. Euros are just too weak to say no.

>>72993472
african countries have very low taxes, wages and few regulation.
If those countries were stable, they would be perfect for low qualification work

>>72989396
it's not even that fucking long ago

it's not that hard to predict events less than 50 years away

>>72993611
so one could predict that far right nationalist would come and conquer half europe in 1880 ? i don't think so

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>>72993378
I did.

>>72993776
t-thanks america

Better than those from the middle East with their Muslim ideologies.

>>72990967
Did he behead eddington?

>>72993308
I don't know if Africans could sustain a western style democracy desu.

We should honestly just exploit them like the chinks does.

>>72994396
I am sure they can't
Thats why I think we should support stable, secular and pro-European dictators in Africa, rather than trying to install a democracy there.

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>>72988942
take em all boys
york hernando

>>72992995
EU invading africa is the reason this shit is happening

>>72994507
Libya pls no

>>72989148
>a person in charge of the EU parliament issues a warning based on the collected migration data
>REEEEE EU WANTS TO FLOOD YURP WITH NIGGERS
/pol/s lack of reading comprehension never fails to amuse me

>>72992786
I want the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact back.

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>>72988942

>>72988942
We're fucked.

>>72994589
Kek. So this the Karma of EU?

>>72993308
>They are fleeing because there is no perspective in African countries.
this is not an excuse at all.
there is no future for russia also but you don't see millions of russians coming to europe and begging for asylum (yet?)

>>72995079
No, this is the Jew taking "revenge" against Whites for what happened in WW2.

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>>72988942
Make only weebs africans can enter in Europe.

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>>72993466
>blame it on stalin
>blame
>on based Stalin
but i personally love Stalin and unironically think we need something like Stalin 2.0 to make soviet russia great again

>>72995175
Then you're stupid as fuck

>>72995134
>there is no future for russia also but you don't see millions of russians coming to europe and begging for asylum (yet?)
There are over a million russians in germany alone. Yes we do see you do exactly that.

>>72995134
i know you guys have it tough but you cant even begin to compare russia to african hellholes

>>72995134
All of your rich people, your entire elite has houses in the west, they keep their money in the west. They send their kids to school in the west. Many of them have dual citizenship in the UK, Germany, France, USA etc. The only reason that regular Russians don't do this is because they can't.

>>72995233
those volga-germans (or whatever you call it) were coming to germany since like 1960s.
but how many russians with no german ancestry at all came to germany and asked for an asylum for the last 5 years? pretty sure it's not millions, not even hundreds of thousands

>>72995342
>those volga-germans (or whatever you call it) were coming to germany since like 1960s.
Nah, I didn't count the Volga germans, those are, technically, germans. I mean actual ethnic russian immigrants.
If we'd count Volga germans etc. we'd be at 3,5 million rather than just slightly above 1 million.

Gaddaffi was the only barrier to this african invasion.
Say thanks to France and USA (Sarkozy and Hillary) that decided to remove Gaddaffi and let Lybia fall into caos.

>>72995257
you were talking about having no perspectives, and trust me ordinary russians here don't have any chance for a good future also. and everything is getting worse and worse every month.

>>72995400
>Say thanks to France and USA (Sarkozy and Hillary)
Why do you think they did it?

>>72995421
Just looks in Libya economy before the war.

>>72995415
It was like that for most of russia's history, powerful country but suffering populace, it's nothing new

>>72995415
I don't think ordinary russians would have much perspective in EU countries either, since most russians dont speak a very good english

>>72995400
>Gaddaffi was the only barrier to this african invasion.
Nigger please, he was no different from Erdogan who used them as a threat against the EU for some gimmedats.

>>72995308
>The only reason that regular Russians don't do this is because they can't
well fair enough.
it's funny that some people here say 'if you hate this country so much why don't you JUST immigrate to your beloved europe or america?'
lel implying it's so easy. i would be glad to do any dirty job that you refuse to do in europe but it's impossible to immigrate there.

>>72993308
That means jack shit when 90 percent of the money gets absorbed by corruption
containment is the way and so is more responsible agricultural police, you need to circumvent the governments as much as possible to actually reach the african population. As of now the place is littered with inefficiany and cash crops

>>72995370
>slightly above 1 million
proofs?

this is a good thread, that autistic german with all the facts did a lot for it, actually learned something for once on this website

>>72995536
>police
policy*

>>72995536
And thats why we need a military presence.
If we just send development money, it will be swallowed by corruption, as you said.
We need active peace keeping forces who work with the local government and take policing duties, ensuring stability and that the development money arrives where it should

>>72995512
Indeed. Jeltsin completely wrecked your country, dissolved the Soviet Union, created the Chechnya crisis and a ton of other national-ethnic problems all over the CIS. Putin did some good at the start but he shouldn't have come back to the presidency. Its obvious now that he either can't change the Russian systems status quo or doesn't want to.

>>72995496
he was a dictator, he did the dirty job, 80% of world coutries are non-democracies, that's not our bussiness.

he once said clearly that once he was gone, europe would be invaded by africans.

>>72995421
stupidity. they do not take seriously their geo-political advisors

or perhaps it was planned by those who wants to destroy european unity

>>72995775
I don't see why we should rely on some shithole dictator to blackmail us in order to keep rapefugees out.

>>72995830
Better than nothing. Unless you want to go down there personally and stop them?

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>>72993900

>>72989396
>>72993611
>millions of Indians in the novel
>millions of blacks irl
So fucking close desu.

>>72995629
The reality is that most of it comes down to money, most of the colonies weren't dropped because of humanitarian reasons or agitation for independence, but because someone took a look at the budget balance and saw a whole lot of red numbers. So they just got rid of them.
Africa is largely seen as vestigial to the world, and money is often much better spent elsewhere. No government wants to bother. France and China are the most active in Africa of all with france having an informal empire there(fun fact: most security council resolutions that pass concern west africa because france proposes them and nobody cares about that place so they always pass)
China does it right by circumventing the government and building and commissioning infrastructure themselves, while they also gain the natural resources from africa themselves(so not humanitarian )Neocolonialism it is called, but really how else can you get anything out of africa?

>Japs gone
>The land is ruined

>>72995862
But the choice really isn't between that or nothing.

>>72995954
is to
>>72991735

>>72995538
https://www.destatis.de/DE/ZahlenFakten/GesellschaftStaat/Bevoelkerung/MigrationIntegration/Migrationshintergrund/Tabellen/MigrationshintergrundStaatsangehoerigkeitStaaten.html

>mit Migrationshintergrund
im engeren Sinne in 1 000
[With Migration background in the stricter sense):
>Russische Föderation 1 222

>>72991104
The European jews are partly European and partly middle eastern, they has sizeable amount of European haplogroups in their population like R1a and R1b (both combine to probably be around one third of their total population or something)

They also have sizeable section of their population which is of North African/Egyption descent with very few having a legitimately jewish (haplogroup J1) descent

>>72995830
you are blind , can't you see facts?
Africans didn't dare to pass through Libya when Gaddaffi was there.
Now Libya is the main base for traffickers.

>>72996081
>Africans didn't dare to pass through Libya when Gaddaffi was there.
Thats not really true, africans still migrated through Lybia even under Gaddafi. He did certainly help curb the problem significantly though and the disruptions in north africa and disposing and weakening of its dictators damaged our interests in the region sginificantly.

The funny part is that it was germany that primarily lobbied with them to make anti-immigration agreements and paid them out, and then we get blamed for the refugee waves.

how do we save europe?

>>72995934
I think the biggest problem of Africa is instability.
You can't really invest a lot of money there with rampant corruption, and a civil war right around the corner.
That's why I think we need an European army to provide security and stability in the African countries. Because once we have that, those countries will become attractive for investors.
And African refugees, who would usually flee to the EU, will go to those African countries instead

>>72995934
The big problem is enough technology has seeped into the continent(or at least medical tech) that their death rate has dropped massively. This leads to overpopulation, but instead of starving they get on boats and just fucking leave.

If the EU had decades to raise them all as someone who understands and can be useful ina western civilization it could work, but these are mostly adults who can't adapt.

>>72996184
Nuke it all. You got them already in germany. Just ignite them and end it.

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F

>>72996231
Europe doesn't have the population to even come close to enforcing security on the african continent. The only one that might would be China, and they don't give afuck because they use it as a dumping ground to get rid of excess chinese anyway.

well we're an island so we'll avoid the refugee invasion r-right?

>>72996231
>And African refugees, who would usually flee to the EU, will go to those African countries instead
Its a severe misconception that this isn't already happening. The migrations we get from africa are only a fraction of the massive migrations happening in africa itself. Thats a huge part of 'why' they are so unstable. Every country or region that gets stable and prosperous is subsequently invaded by other africans who wreck it all in year long civil wars.

>>72996017
i don't understand your language but since you're german i believe you

>>72996351
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.destatis.de%2FDE%2FZahlenFakten%2FGesellschaftStaat%2FBevoelkerung%2FMigrationIntegration%2FMigrationshintergrund%2FTabellen%2FMigrationshintergrundStaatsangehoerigkeitStaaten.html

Better this way?

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>>72996290
it's not a matter of geography, it's a matter of politics. the continentals could have rejected every single one, they're there because they were welcomed

>>72996167
they were infinitely less in number, and often ended in jail tortured and killed

Berlusconi in 2008 signed an agreement with Gaddaffi for 5 bil
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-libya-italy-idUKLU1618820080830

>>72996231
The big issue is that most of the time there is nothing to gain, the population is uneducated, infrastructure is crap, and technology in general is backward. It requires substantial investment with nothing to gain, so that wouldn't work. So I propose a different solution
Invest in the few african countries that are actually improving. They care enough about their neighbours to actually lose money trying to stabilize the situation and thus might pull the continent up. But of course outside of South Africa most are too weak still but the intervention in gambia has shown that they CAN do it, so that's an idea.

Also stable dictatorships won't work.

>>72988942
And some people still wonder why the Brits voted for Brexit.

>>72996438
>Berlusconi in 2008 signed an agreement with Gaddaffi for 5 bil
I miss those old Boys Club days when we had Schröder, Berlusconi, Putin and Bush in charge. They were corrupt as fuck, but they made way better and smarter politics than what we got now.

>>72996184
give refugees choices
1.go back to their land
2.stay in Europe at the cost of being castrated
3.prove that they are more smart and civilized than European average and become a European.

>>72996475
You realise the Brits willingly and proudly import hundreds of thousands of them from the commonwealth states?
In the EU these people are at least illegal.

>>72988942
Fuck it, at this point Europeans and Africans should just trade continents.

>>72996407
why do you have so many turks though?

>>72996522
Yes I realize, but they did that in the place of 60 years after the fall of the British Empire, they didn't import 30 million Africans in a decade. Also, people everywhere is just most aware now than before about the dangers of mass immigration and unchecked borders.

>>72996287
Probably not all of Africa, but that might not be necessary. Even if we create a few stable countries in Africa, then the African refugees will flee there, and not to Europe.

>>72996339
But still, if we have several African countries that depend on us for security and development aid, it would be easy for us to make treaties with them, so they take the refugees who flee to EU. Basically, a similar deal to what Australia has.

>>72996463
But Asia had all those problems aswell, 50 years ago. But many Asian countries managed to remain stable, making their countries attractive to industries that rely on cheap labour.
As Asian countries get more and more wealthy, and their wages rise, said industries need other places with cheap labour, and I think Africa has great potential there

>>72996651
Immigration agreement forced on us by the U.S. in the 1960s.

>>72996659
>they didn't import 30 million Africans in a decade
And neither does the EU. The EU is trying to 'stop' these people from coming. That article is based on a warning given by the EU parliament of this problem coming to us and the need for greater common border security to 'stop' this wave.

>>72996772
The only way to stop them is for you to stop giving them free shit.

>>72996726
>But still, if we have several African countries that depend on us for security and development aid, it would be easy for us to make treaties with them, so they take the refugees who flee to EU. Basically, a similar deal to what Australia has.
The only countries positioned to be a stopgap for immigration waves are the north african ones, because geography makes it impossible to stop them in Sub-Saharan africa. We need to stabilise and support those countries first, and 'that' is actually within our means.
Sending european troops into africa for peacekeeping is foolish imo. We should make a few strategic allies of the more prosperous and stable ones like Kenya and focus on supporting them so they can do the job for us, rather than spreading out welfare checks across the continent.

>>72996726
Asian countries were strategically much more important because of their proximity to crucial sea lanes and because of cold war politics. Africa simply doesn't have that aspect to it. Actually after the cold war many countries collapsed because there was no reason anymore to prop up the regimes there. Most infamous example is Somalia. Propping them up that way is only a temporary solution. Asian countries still haven't lost their importance.

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I don't think people in the North realize how scary that sounds for us, who border Africa, even if they have the intention of ultimately going to your countries (you who are making this calls to them for coming into Europe and forbidding us to properly defend our borders*), they have at least to pass through here, and many will stay as it happens already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQPdv7d8Evs


*Due to EU pressures and regulations we can't use rubber bullets on trespassing Africans, and if one puts a foot in our country we can't put him back immeadiately on Morocco, he has to stay here. We are even forced to rescue migrants in boats if we see them and put them into our coasts. Not many years ago we had the Spanish Legion there breaking bones on any trespassing migrant.

>>72996231
I believe it is a bit naive to think that europe has enough young males to spare in order to create a force big enough to police the vast and tightly populated lands there with their many peoples and languages. Even if you manage to practically dissolve european nations by making them give up their militarys as well to pool ressources I do not believe this will create a force big enough to actually "circumvent" the governments too down there as you would like.
Cooperation with China might do the job but then old europe would need to throw out both our arrogance of having the moral highground we so adamantly cling to and compromise with their interests.

>>72996858
No its not. You seriously think any of these people have any clue how asylum policies in germany work? They don't come here because of what we do, but because of what they 'hear' we do. They get hugely exegarrated bullshit fed to them in africa by organisations profiting from the smuggling, which is just not something we can stop. You can't prevent people from deluding themselves into thinking they can get a easy life somewhere.
The "free shit" we give them is basically just housing and food once they are already here, because that that point what 'else' are we supposed to do? Let starving niggers roam the countryside?
We'd much rather they wouldn't be here, but once Italy lets them through we can't exactly ignore them. We need to detain them in centralised stations to have any hope of managing the huge logistical task of transporting them back. It'd be super easy for Italy or greece, since they can just ship them over the sea, but we have to fly them out. Do you realise how much logistical effort that is and how long it takes even if we wouldn't have to follow international humanitarian laws and process their information first?

Doesn't Germany ""need"" migrants to sustain their population and economic growth? Why doesn't the government just subsidise childcare and encourage more people to have babies?

>>72996864
>we should make a few strategic allies of the more prosperous and stable ones
That's what I said too 2bh. It's the only rational solution.
But it's not a complete solution of course, since these countries will be primarily concerned with their own security rather than that of europe, however with investment we'll have significant leverage.
Also I think we're already kind of doing this

>>72996864
But it seems to me like we don't have much influence in North African countries. They seem to be pretty reluctant to take back their refugees.
And my idea was not to prevent refugees from reaching European shores, but instead, automatically ship them off to some refugee camp in an Sub-Saharan African country, which would be basically an EU puppet state.
This way, sooner or later the refugees would realize that coming to Europe by boat is fruitless

>>72996895
But still, Africa has a huge population which could be used for cheap manual work, if those countries were stable.
Imagine if we could implement them in our supply chain

>>72996943
>you who are making this calls to them for coming into Europe and forbidding us to properly defend our borders*
Bullshit. They are only coming in because of countries NOT FOLLOWING EU LAW THAT TELLS THEM TO KEEP THEM OUT.
The EU has not and does not "forbid you from keeping them out".

> we can't put him back immeadiately on Morocco, he has to stay here
Until you have processed his information, then you can send them immediatly back. Nothing stops you from setting up border camps, detain them, give them a hearing and ship them back, except that your goverment finds it easier and cheaper to just let them through.

>We are even forced to rescue migrants in boats if we see them and put them into our coasts.
because of international maritime laws which have nothing to do with the EU.

>>72996726
You can not "create" stable countries with force (see the disasters made by the USA)

What we must do (and we are doing already) is create schools there, explain to the youngster that they will die on the boats or end up unemployed here.
Teach them trades, give the micro-credit to those who start companies, not bilions to their politicians who will spend all in weapons and whores.

>>72996950
Here in Germany, we have a huge immigrant lower class that isn't really productive, relaying on either crime or welfare.
I think that German military should focus its requitment advertisement on that group, giving them the opprotunity to be productive members of society and gain certain prestige, while contributing to our wellbeeing and European security.

>>72997009
>Doesn't Germany ""need""
HIGHLY doubtful, at least it does not need the immigrants that are coming that is for sure.

>>72996978
>They get hugely exegarrated bullshit fed to them in africa by organisations profiting from the smuggling

I did not know that, maybe you can try to get out your own message to them.

>>72997021
France used to control most of the north african coast before the arab spring, most people don't realize this but Tunisia for example was a French satellite state. We do need them but cooperation needs to be comprehensive and more fair now, which is hard

Also it will take a long time before all of africa becomes actually valuable, as of now rational investment should mostly be limited to key countries.

>>72997095
Because USA destroyed the ruling class, without establishing a new elite that takes over.
I don't suggest that we try to spread democracy, we just need to find a rational dictator with a powerbase, with whome we can work, and then put him to power.
And since he will rely on our continious support to remain in power, we can keep him on a rather short leash

Can't wait to do Reconquista this time heading north

>>72997142
He's not wrong, they are being fed a lot of stuff but they are also informed about what ACTUALLY is given. Family reunion, how easy it is to get asylum here and there, how much access they get to welfare and some idea of how generous it is etc. which they do base their decisions around.

>>72997142
That is actually a thing the EU is doing. But when you got one guy promising them free shit and another guy telling them to stay at home and take care of their family.. you guys got enough niggers to know how that is going.

'Clearly' the Eu could do more against this problem. But its not a issue of "the EU" wanting these people or not wanting to do anything, its that by its nature its a huge bueraucracy that needs to find consensus with all the petty egos of every single member. And the worst part is that we would be even less capable of handling this without the EU.
Imagine italy alone, or already economically struggling greece alone would have to fight off a migration wave more than half their countries population?

>>72997230
First you have to spend 1000 years losing and being cucked though. 800 more to go I guess

also we should improve conditions in our countries to encourage families to have babies, so the "we need them" excuses is dropped.

Italy has the lowest natality rate of europe.
Infertility in western men is an epidemics, it seems is con-caused by chemicals used in plastic materials

>>72997160
>Also it will take a long time before all of africa becomes actually valuable, as of now rational investment should mostly be limited to key countries.
Well yeah, I was talking more about the long time EU security strategy, and not necessary the measures that should be taken right now

>>72997256
>but they are also informed about what ACTUALLY is given. Family reunion, how easy it is to get asylum here and there, how much access they get to welfare and some idea of how generous it is etc. which they do base their decisions around
The thing is that virtually none of them will ever qualify for any of that because they aren't 'actual' refugees or asylum seekers.
Economical refugees don't qualify for things like family reunion.
You could argue we 'might' have some less refugees if we stop taking asylum seekers entirely, but I don't thinkl rejecting actual people in need is the solution to deal with the large part of leeches.

>>72997112
>huge
Not in comparison to african populations who are young and virile.
Also the military is looking to recruit everyone they can since we ditched the draft, what you propose is not a new thought. Turns out that living on welfare in a bloc might be less prestigious but is still considered better then to dare to join the funtimes in Mali. Mind you these people have their own values and dont really need our approval to feel good about themselves.

>>72997380
>also we should improve conditions in our countries to encourage families to have babies, so the "we need them" excuses is dropped.
Honestly the "we need immigration" excuse is already not statistically valid and largely based on conjecture.
In reality increasing automatization in industry and the increasingly efficient service technology decreases the need for unskilled or even skilled work force. And we have seen that in places where actual depopulation happens, you often have increased fertility again after a few years when housing prices and employment rises due to the lower population, allowing people that have families again.
For example East germany, the part with the least amount of immigrants, has actually seen increase of children over the last few years because of this.

tfw there is better political discussion on /int/ than /pol/

>>72997437
>Also the military is looking to recruit everyone they can since we ditched the draft
I doubt that, since in my opinion, Ursula von de Leyen is really incompetent. She is more concerned with recuiting females and work-life balance in the military, rather than having an army that actually works.
And I am pretty sure those immigrant children can be easily impressed with bling-bling and big guns, making military career attractive to them.

I would imagine something like that as an army advertisement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNjG22Gbo6U

>>72997388
If we ever reach that point then there is no longer need for such a strategy, then strong african countries will deal with that and investors won't need assistance

>>72997380
>>72997507
Don't misunderstand, the argument isn't about solely having more people. That's pointless. They want a certain kind of people which western nation have been pretty bad at creating lately, the low-class worker who doesn't miss 90 days of work due to feeling under the whether, doesn't complain to the union whenever they stub their toe and most importantly is very easy to control.

>>72997507
another problem is Italy population growing older and older, who will pay the pensions to the retired people with less and less young people working?

Looks like brexit was a good idea kek

>>72989396
>Mere hours from the border opening, the author dedicates the book to his grandchildren, in the hopes they will grow up in a world where they will not be ashamed of him for writing such a book.

That is eerily prescient.

>>72997638
>the argument isn't about solely having more people. That's pointless.
The thing is, this isn't actually that much the case. There are lobbying forces who 'do' want more people for the sake of having more peopole, because it allows them to dump wages and fire people whi are inconvenient at their leisure.
Their solution often isn't "we want more resilient work forces" because in reality africans are terrible workers. Middle Easterners are okay, but not really any better than say, people from eastern Europe. Their solution is "we want more work force in general so we can drive down available jobs and make people desperate enough to follow our every whim in fear of unemployment".
This isn't a EU thing, this is a paradigm that works in all developed economies, and is actually one of the reasons I suport the EU, because these lobbying forces would have a lot easier time harassing goverments into following these ideologies against individual states, especially because the 'actual' need of immigration for certain labor can be easily fulfilled from within the Union.

>>72997686
Thats a general problem, but, keep in mind just how high youth joblessness in the EU is. The pensions of older europeans could easily be payed for if all or the overhwleming majority of young europeans would be in emplyoment. What the EU needs is better and more efficient systems to move european youths for training and emplyoment across the EU, not importing more people from the outside when so many of our young are already unemployed.

>>72997736
many companies and international organizations are leaving the UK after brexit

>>72997875
At least they will still have their country in 10 years.

>>72997850
>The thing is, this isn't actually that much the case. There are lobbying forces who 'do' want more people for the sake of having more peopole, because it allows them to dump wages and fire people whi are inconvenient at their leisure.
>Their solution often isn't "we want more resilient work forces" because in reality africans are terrible workers. Middle Easterners are okay, but not really any better than say, people from eastern Europe. Their solution is "we want more work force in general so we can drive down available jobs and make people desperate enough to follow our every whim in fear of unemployment".

That is what I was insinuating, yes.

>>72997916
They could've had it all along if they hadn't harassed us for 40 years about joining. Thank god they're gone.

>>72997916
Actually I think we're going to be fine when it comes to mass immigration, agitation was across the EU not only in britain, Cameron just made a bad gamble and the EU will do anything to stop the immigration now

>>72997949
>us

>>72997971
>EU will do anything to stop the immigration now
Except put soldier on their boarders and you know, stop immigration.

>>72997272
t. history pro

>>72997916
>At least they will still have their country in 10 years.
I have not seen anything idnicating the british goverment has any interest in curbing the immigration from the commonwealth states.

When even Nigel Farage talks about positively! of how Britain will get more africans from the commonwealth territories to replace the loss of Eu immigrants, that scares me for Britain.

>>72997979
Sweden is a million times more European than Britain now. It's kind of funny, all things considered.

>>72998077
I'm telling you, just like the Americans they secretly love it. They were immigrating people decades before us. Where we are horrified by what's happening, they yell "more! more!"

Looks like the fourth reach is collapsing lol sry germany

>>72997850
>dump wages
government people must keep in mind that poorer citizens will pay less taxes, have less services, will be prone to criminal activities and revolts.

>>72998014
what borders? The sea? they try, but they aren't going to drive a crappy boat right near europe back to africa because that would risk anyone on board and turkey is a prison but erdogan is making more demands(which honestly is fair because there are millions there)

>>72997949
>That is what I was insinuating, yes.
I must have misunderstood you then, my bad.

>>72997971
>Actually I think we're going to be fine when it comes to mass immigration
It could easily go either way. I really hope this is a wake-up call for the innovative forces in the EU to get into action. But it can easily go either way.

I would feel a lot better if the anti-immigration and "non-liberal" goverments in the Union, like Poland, Hungary etc. would express their disagreement with EU politics more with counter-intitiatives. I think if they would be more active, we'd get a lot more done in terms of border protection. Maybe italy gets scared enough to lobby for it too. Its seriously unhealthy that everything in the EU only happens on German or French initiative, especially now where both are paralysed with internal politics.

>>72998196
So they will do anything to stop them besides stopping them? Sounds about right

>>72988942
as long as they only go to germany i'm ok with this

>>72998241
t. building a wall which can easily be sailed around

>>72998241
reading comprehension os an important skill anon
We do try to stop them, but sometimes we can't, we're not full Abbott mode yet

>>72998014
what can soldiers do with hundreds of disarmed boat people?
Shoot them and then been indicted for crimes against humanity?

>>72998241
When are you going to build that wall already? We can use the business.

>>72997546
Lel
Might work but looking at the current mindset of the EU an all too martial pride seems to be icky for them, all that talk about "the european dream" by former 68er socialists is so vague it doesnt even manage to convince most natives to drop their national loyality for some greater good. Also it reminds me a bit of that situation when romans equipped gothic migrants to repell the huns and ended up getting looted by said goths. You can hardly buy faith and loyality.

Concentrating on securing the Magrehb that has its own share of problems such as rampart poverty, methastazing islamism and a youth bulge that will leave them utterly fucked when the demography collapses in some decades either by force or cooperation seems already like a gargantuan task which might be rewarded with a sealed of sahara and a pacified mediterran.
Leave the rest to chinese ambition or even try to assist by sharing the payoit of planned projects, our place in this world has shrunken.

>>72998376
After we pull out of NATO

Proud to have voted leave.

>>72998428
we're grateful

>>72998418
Don't make promises you won't make good on, you're just getting my hopes up.

>>72998428
proud of you lot desu

>>72989972
What are you racist and homophobic? Just be gay

>>72998453
Hey anon, could you tell me something about
Guy Verhofstadt? I've seen him talk in the EU parliament a lot, and I'm wondering what kind of guy he was in your national politics.

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Just keep doing whatever you're doing

>>72998681
IT'S GOING DOWN DOWN

>>72989148
Why is it always colonials that feel so strongly about Europe?

>>72998728
Our government hasn't castrated us yes.

>>72997402
>Economical refugees don't qualify for things like family reunion.
Oh but they do when they make up a half believable story for the immigration authorities to hear.

>>72997971
>the EU will do anything to stop the immigration now
>literally sending out boats to pick up niggers in the Mediterranean

>>72998728
Unlike here, national identity is a struggle for them.

Like what even are they?

>>72998830
Exactly, we know what it's like to have no identity, whereas you don't. If you continue down your current path, you will become just like us.

You don't know what you've got until it's gone.

>>72998612
I'm not too into national politics but he's been in the game for long, he's an embodiment of Belgium's establishment, liberal, internationalist, trying to maintain the state etc.
>>72998813
Strawman soundbites like that are popular in British politics but recent developments show that they're useless and meaningless especially when it comes to good trade deals. Let's see how much you like them in a few years.

>>72998765
I can't say how it is on a european stage, but here they tightened the requirements a lot since the whole refugee crisis because they needed to be able to show big deportation numbers to the population.
You probably still have the occassional antifa-tard trying to prevent deportation and some bleeding hearts in the asylum offices giving people a pass, but the mass processing made that borderline impossible by now because they barely get to talk to them.

>>72999075
What, they're going to rip the runestones out of the ground? Tip over the 7000 years old sacrificial rock I looked at yesterday?

>>72999075
Shut the fuck you goddamn clown.
Go back to /pol/ with this ridiculous LARPing.

>>72998014
>Except put soldier on their boarders
What is Frontex (albeit poorly financed I'll concede, but with its existence, you should peer into what the EU is masterminding against mass immigration).

>>72999197
What exactly am I LARPing as? I'm doing the opposite of LARPing you stupid fuck. I'm saying we're nothing but colonials.

>>72999142
>Strawman soundbites like that are popular in British politics but recent developments show that they're useless and meaningless especially when it comes to good trade deals. Let's see how much you like them in a few years.
?
Who's talking about trade deals?
You said immigration will come down and that the EU has changed on immigration when there is literally no evidence for that.

Are boats being sent out to the coast of Libya to bring niggers here?
Yes.
Are the EU tolerating it?
Yes.
Are the EU curbing immigration and pushing for reform?
No.

And you bring up trade deals.
What the fuck are you talking about?

Enjoy your nigger infested continent

>>72997511
Always been that way, friend.

Apparently shedding one's self of inane racism, and peering beyond Breitbart articles rather than condensing your entire political viewscope to "must be the joos" does that.

>>72998408
You are completely right, you cant buy loyalty with money.
Thats why Urusla von de Leyen is so stupid. Does she really think that soldiers would be willing to die for better work-life-balance?
We need a military that fights for an ideology, not for money, and we need a common enemy.

I think the best idea would be to turn radical islam into our common enemy. Of course, it is important to differ between the moderate and radical islam, so the gap in the society is not between muslims and non-muslims, but between radical and moderate muslims.
I think such an ideology would be also popular within the right-wing of native population, so we could easily push for it, and german population would probably support a military mission to destroy boko haram, if we manage to portray them as a realistic threat

>>72999402
They leak though see
>>72999367
strawmen like you spout are not useful outside of partisan politics, that's what I meant.

>>72999466
But they're not.

>>72999466
>Does she really think that soldiers would be willing to die for better work-life-balance?
We don't really have a huge problem with recruitment (we have way too much of a bueraucratic overhead compared to soldiers in the field, for one) or our soldiers willingness to fight. Quite the opposite, the soldiers are significantly more willing to fight than the goverment that outright hinders them from fighting even in war theaters. This shit has utterly absurd dimensions at times. Our soldiers 'want' to fight.
One could improve the support in the population but thats a different topic.

>>72999551
well, history teaches us that countries tend to unite only under a common foreign thread.
So if EU is to survive, we need to have the sense of a threat for all of Europe

>>72999748
The problem is that for this strategy to work, it would need to be a threat thats dire and immediate for all of us, to overcome our deeply ingrained mistrust for eachother.
Even things like immigration and islamic terrorism you have a lot of countries that think its everyone elses problem because it doesn't happen to them.

>>72989927
If only Gaddafi was alive then Libya route would be shut...
But no Frogs, 'murilards and then whole West had to get him exterminated. Biggest mistake in recent years.

>>72999823
It's hardly mistrust at this point. If it were people wouldn't be so distraught at Britain's betrayal.

It's an issue all too familiar to us scandinavians - We're prospering as individuals, so there's no need to unite. Recent history shows that most wars end up being coalitions anyway, no need to unite if we just need protection.

>>72999848
>If only Gaddafi was alive then Libya route would be shut...
I'm not so sure about that. But killing Gaddafi and then not staying to ensure a stable goverment that serves our purpose is implemented, that was the real mistake.

>>72999748
Your union can learn a thing or two about fictional creating outside threats from China. That country is brewing with hatred for practically all of its neighbors and except some obvious vassal States(which mainlanders often downright look down on them)

>>73000185
Western nations aren't revisionist so they can't afford this

>30mn
30 millinewton?

>>72990279
Not so fast kiddo

>>73000259
Well that's unfortunate. Perhaps for EU/Europe to survive one must do what German poster said old European countries need to get down on their moral high horses and start to play as dirty as China/US/Russia.

>>73000444
>need to get down on their moral high horses
Lewd!

Well, sort of. Its not like they aren't doing dirty shit. Just the Union as a organisation isn't because, no matter how hypocritical, that would give ammunition to the "euro-skeptics" about what a evil entity it supposedly is.

HAHAHA GG

>>72999823
Look at the refugee crisis. Pretty much every European country has a huge amount of population that is very worried about the refugees and the islam they bring to Europe.
With a bit of propaganda, I am sure we could steer those sentiments in the right direction, portraying radical islam as ideological enemy of Europe.

>>73000185
But I think it would be better if we create hatred against powerless groups like ISIS.
We shouldn't actually hate strong countries like Russia, cause this could backfire pretty quickly

i think the muslim refugees and african refugees just want to fuck white women

>>72999466
>between radical and moderate muslims

So between faithful and not so faithful ones? That needs a severe singapore-tier crackdown on rogue imams and those financed by arabs which is a position mainly held by the right which isnt into federalisation. You are searching for some kind of right wing EU-ism which simply isnt there.

>>73001165
Everwhere in EU nationalist powers are rising. Those people are worried about the cultural shift through islam, about the rising immigrant numbers, and that they become foreigners in their own country.
And because pro-EU politicans dont take the serioulsy, they turn to populists who want to leave the EU.
I think it is a really big mistake of our political elite to ignore those people, or even call them scum, like Sigmar Gabriel did

>>73000812
do you?

>>73001377
>Everwhere in EU nationalist powers are rising.
Those are almost exclusively nationalism for their individual country, not EU-nationalists. And 'these' are just as errosive for the EU as the hyper liberal "accept all immigrant" types.
The EU-nationalists have been consistently unsuccessfull because a common european identity isn't really a thing.

Religion isn't big a enough a deal for most of us and you don't whip people into fervor with talk of our liberal democratic values. You might get somewhere with regional blocks like the V4 or or some Carlonigan heritage of the original 5 founder states. But thats not a EU thing.

>>73001567
you wouldn't talk about liberal democracy or shit.
You would build up radical islam as a threat for the whole europe, your narrative would be that the "Abendland" must unite against the islamic thread. With such propaganda, you could create an European nationalism

>>72989927
>the refusal of countries like italy and greece to follow european borderlaws and detain and process the information of these people in their country
Because it costs a lot of money, and why should it be their problem only ? I mean I'm all for them to keep the refugees and prevent them from going further, but it's realistically very hard to do that.
Also I would remind you that Germany single handedly decided to let more than one million of them go through without asking anyone else if they agreed

>>73001866
>Because it costs a lot of money, and why should it be their problem only ?
I actually agree with this position. And if they would make political efforts to fix it and get the other member states to contribute more, I would consider them to be completly in the moral and legal right.
But they aren't, they just bitch a little and then let everyone through.
On the other hand, when people started talking of sharing the refugee burden for greece and spread them over multiple member states to process and deport them, half the Eu suddenly found something urgent to do elsewhere and welfare queens like poland had the audacity to complain about it. In a ideal world we would have struck all EU budget for poland and given it to greece to handle the crisis right that moment.

>Also I would remind you that Germany single handedly decided to let more than one million of them go through without asking anyone else if they agreed

Germany didn't make them move all the way through the balkans. germany agreed to let them into germany when they were 'already' all over the balkans and into austria to these countries aren't stuck with them, because of exactly those cost and buerauctaric difficulties you mentioned.

>>73002068
>On the other hand, when people started talking of sharing the refugee burden for greece and spread them over multiple member states to process and deport them, half the Eu suddenly found something urgent to do elsewhere and welfare queens like poland had the audacity to complain about it
True, that was a big problem. It's urgent to be get more strict about all this shit and reassure the populations. Shit is getting out of hand.

>Germany didn't make them move all the way through the balkans. germany agreed to let them into germany when they were 'already' all over the balkans
Fair enough, but it was still a bad political move for Germany.

>>73001567
Smaller independent blocs like visegrad, the nordics and the karolingian core would have made for a superiour system from the beginning on imo.

>>73001693
Is a bit flimsy if the only support you can get is by raising up an enemy. Id welcome it nonetheless but mind you nationalists of smaller countrys can simply piggyback that sentiment and combine it with their nativist spin.

>>73002319
>the karolingian core
That shit doesn't exist nor has any recent history except for war. That's literally the first time I ever read about it.

File: headlineImage.adapt.1460.high.France_far_right_Marie_Le_Pen_05252014.1429110982205.jpg (680KB, 1460x911px) Image search: [Google]

680KB, 1460x911px

>>72989148
>>72988942

>>73002223
>Fair enough, but it was still a bad political move for Germany.
It certainly was politically a bad move in a lot of ways. But on the other hand, every time I see this discussion I have to ask myself, what else 'could' have been done?
The situation couldn't be ignored anymore. Waves of refugees were streaming into the politically and economically often fragile balkan states, they were throwing themselves on razor wire to cross the border. How do you 'stop' that?
If there wouldn't have been a coordinated destination, I fear it would have resulted in either the refugees spreading out in those countries and creating huge crime problems and social disorder (having arab mountain gangs might sound funny, but would have been a very real possibility). Or it would have come to escalation with militaries and resulted in a massacre.
Germany might have gotten politically more clean out of it, but I don't think it would have been preferable outcomes.
Mabe alternative deals with the EU members could have been made, but I can't say what was tried and what wasn't.

>>73002319
>Smaller independent blocs like visegrad, the nordics and the karolingian core would have made for a superiour system from the beginning on imo.
Within the EU, but as alternative to the EU they would have been largely irrelevant. Even the V4 barely does anything. The Benelux is probably the only relevant european national alliance of any worth.

>>73002448
Might be referring to how the EU founders (France, Italy, germany, Benelux) are, excepting Switzerland, exactly the successor states to the Carolingian Empire. I agree that this isn't really a basis for real cultural unity though.

>>73002578
>what else 'could' have been done?
I don't know either. There was probably no good solutions anyway. And now there are more than one million stuck in Germany, thousands spread everywhere, and millions more trying come. We don't even have many in France, but they're too visible. They're begging in the streets at some crossroads, and the whole Calais business was a complete shitshow.
Jesus, thank You Bush. Thank your for Irak, really.

>>73000444
Playing dirty only wins you short term success. Look at America, not 70 years as the dominant power and they've turned the entire world against them.

>>73002824
>And now there are more than one million stuck in Germany
If nothing else it got our bueraucracy into gear to reform the asylum and deportation processes to ensure to get more people more quickly back out of the country again.
But we're gonna chew on that million for a few years to come for sure.

>>73000656
>portraying radical islam as ideological enemy of Europe.
It's already denounced but we should get harder about it, for sure. It's not about antagonizing muslims, it's about saying how it is and how all those fanatical retards are destroying everything for everyone.
We should also tell Erdogan to fuck off

Maybe shouldn't have disposed of Gaddafi breuhs

>>73003336
Maybe shouldn't have disposed of the Shah breuhs

>>73002448
You gotta admit that france, germany and benelux are closer to each other and could at least try to get into cohesive policys in relation to such teamups as spain and slovakia.

>>73002578
I rather be japan-tier relevant, stable and cultured then to end up in some relevant northern brazil.