Are Finns really descended from Mongols?

>>72277219
post finnish boys too

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>>72277219
No they're """white"""

>>72277219
No they are amerindians.

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>>72277492

>>72277492
well she is a boy

It really triggers me that half of Finns posted here look like Russians. We are Slavic, reee.

>>72277219
She looks a lot like my cousin's fiance, except she has black hair (And I presume this girl has natural black hair, too, considering her roots and eyebrows).

Not Mongols but a similar people from the steppes of West Siberia who much like the Mongols after them flooded into Europe on horseback.

>>72277219
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szmUKVcez38

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>>72278147
>finns
>product of a thousand years of swedish rape
>russians
>product of finns being raped by variags

>>72277219
As much as Hungarains, except they got raped by Swedes and not turks.

>>72278336
>swede
>product of thousands years of cucking and decades of islam

>>72278358
hungarians never got raped by turks
they're simply slavic (serbian/czech/slovakian)

>>72278336

Care to link to a haplogroup study which would back up your ideas?

>>72278444
but muh svea rike, muh vikangz
>>72278387
no we are the achmed

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>>72277219
the chance of anyone here being able to explain to you in any reasonable level of detail the complex genetic makeup of finns: 0%
the chance of you understanding jack shit even if someone did the former: 2%
the chance of receiving dozens of contradictory meme answers: 100%

might as well take the ancient finnic empire as a fact and read up on the finno-korean hyper war.

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>>72278336
But Varangians were Finns.

>According to the FamilyTreeDNA Rurikid Dynasty DNA Project, Rurik appears to have belonged to Y-DNA haplogroup N1c1, based on testing of his modern purported male-line descendants.[7] N1c1 is not widely found in Scandinavian countries, but is overwhelmingly found among Baltic and Finnish ethnicities. The N1c1 haplotype possess the distinctive value DYS390=23, also rarely found in Scandinavia.[citation needed] The closest relatives of the Rurikid haplotype are found in coastal Finland,[8]

Also less than 5% of our lineages are of Swedish origin.
>Of the 28% of I1 in Finland, 65% belong to the exclusively Finnish L287 (downstream of L22) and particularly its L258 subclade. A few percents more belong to other subclades that are also specifically Finnish (e.g. L300). The rest (5-10%) generally resemble more closely Swedish I1. The Swedish-like subclades are unsurprisingly found primarily on the west and south-west coast of Finland, where Swedes have settled in historical times and where Swedish is still spoken. This is also where most of the R1b (3.5%) and Scandinavian R1a-Z282 (3%) is to be found. The Scandinavian I1 in Finland is found at a similar proportion to R1b and R1a as in Sweden. In contrast, Finnish I1 is found in all the country, where hardly any Germanic Y-DNA is present strongly hints that the I1 in Finland is pre-Germanic origin.

>>72278504
Nothing complex about it. We're basically Snow Mongols who bleached themselves with Aryan wombs.

>>72278147

They look nothing like us actually. You should drink less boyaryshnik, m8, this shit could make you blind one day.

http://pollmill.com/f/what-is-the-size-of-veronica-matlock-s-nipple-ebbcv73/answers/new.html

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found from a facebook profile posted in a unrelated thread on yli a moment ago

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>>72278534

It's a well known archaeological fact that Proto-Finnics went to settle in the Roslagen part of Sweden that Rus hailed from back in the day.

Finns basically spawned the relevant Swedes with their dicks.

>>72278583
Russia spans half of Northern Eurasia, people from St. Petersburg region and Ingria obviously don't look like people from Smolensk or Yakutsk.

Enough with this meme already. Just let it go, it's stale and distorts reality.

No, we aren't Mongols, we're regional Balto-Scandinavians with Uralic admixture.

>>72278534
>coastal finland
You mean little new Baghdad?

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>>72278567
Nothing complex about quantum mechanics either, it's just a bunch of particles and/or waves now knowing what the fuck they're doing.
With enough semantic wrapping, everything becomes simple.

>>72278708

>we

t. Pekkaricles

>>72278720

>something is only an approximation of the truth thus wrong

People on /int/ aren't looking for a detailed explanation but something easy they can understand with their small white brains

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>>72278841
I believe it is the Finnic man's burden to try and uplift the lesser races, especially the whites, as they still have some potential left. Memes (and the subliminal knowledge they are engineered to carry) will only take us so far towards this goal.

>>72278720
Give me a thorough explanation of Finnish origins, then. Specifically the origin of N1c1.

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>>72279002
I only know enough about the subject matter to be aware that "le mongols" is not a very good explanation. Since I have no personal interest in such things and my IQ is too low to quickly absorb the available data from various sources, I don't know anywhere near enough to be able to give a thorough explanation, and it's unlikely anyone here does.

>>72278668
>people from St. Petersburg region and Ingria obviously don't look like people from Smolensk or Yakutsk.
Wrong

>>72277219
I heard that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzmI3vAIhbE

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>>72279194
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqNCoF8MIuo

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>>72279154

>it's unlikely anyone here does.

More like you reject the conclusions made by actual geneticists because they hurt your feelings.

It is known that N1c(TAT-C) originates in East Asia and arrived to Europe through south Siberia.
That sounds pretty Mongol doesn't it?

It's very easy to make the connection between the spread of N1c and the arrival of East Asian pottery technology to European Russia but that doesn't necessarily mean they moved at exactly the same speed. Comb Ceramic Finland may have had no N1c whatsoever. Estonian Comb Ceramic was R1a* so Finland may have been as well.

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>>72279154
I suppose it would be pointless of me to point out that haplogroups actually do not correlate very much with the actual genetic makeup of the population or the individual, even if they can be used as a tool to trace ancient migratory movements?

Since you appear to be neurotypical and feel inclined to take our persons and feelings into the matter, I suppose I should also point out that I would in no way detest being classified as a mongol, as I view them with great admiration.

>>72279313
meant to reference you with >>72279444
(also check em)

>that one autistic finn

>>72279472
>one

>>72279472
all Finns on 4chan seem to have become interested in population genetics to some extent, for...some reason

>>72279444

But the subject was the origin of N1c not autosomal DNA?
You're trying to insist it's somehow mysterious or difficult to understand and no one here knows anything.
It's actually pretty simple and moderately well understood.

>>72279515

For every Finn that talks about haploshit there's several hundred that just post retarded frogs and spurdos.

>>72279653
damn, it's worse than I thought then :D :X xD

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>>72279550
If we use the spread of N1C to define us as mongols, we could also make a bunch of very interesting and counter-cultural definitions regarding the racial categorization of populations in other countries. If we agree that such reasoning constitutes a valid way to define a race, then indeed we are mongols. I suppose I was merely questioning whether that is truly a meaningful way to define a population's membership to a race category.

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>>72279653
Very true.

t. Fellow haplogroup connoisseur

>>72279763

The Mongol thing is a __________meme________

All memes generally have some truth to them however little or actually irrelevant.

The truth quotient of the "Finns are Mongols" meme is actually not that bad for _____meme_____ standards.
Our ancestors may very well have fished in lake Baikal at some point.

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>>72278504
what a shitty wizard.

>>72278147
heh, you mean the other way around my dear Vlad

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>>72279763
>>72279444
I like you. You're good.

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>>72277219
100% NO. we are just ugly as sin

>>72279824
One of them scratched his balls in the Sayan Mountains, that's for certain.

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>>72279825
Calling the guy who can literally sing you in to a swamp bad. Bad move friendo. He was aslo birthed by the creator of the world. Also this particular folk wizard was the inspiration for a lot of Lotr stuff.

>Väinämöinen has been identified as a source for Gandalf, the wizard in J. R. R. Tolkien's novel The Lord of the Rings.[4] Another Tolkienian character with great similarities to Väinämöinen is Tom Bombadil. Like Väinämöinen, he is one of the most powerful beings in his world, and both are ancient and natural beings in their setting. Both Tom Bombadil and Väinämöinen rely on the power of song and lore. Likewise, Treebeard and the Ents in general have been compared to Väinämöinen.[5]

>>72278668
>people from St. Petersburg region and Ingria obviously don't look like people from Smolensk or Yakutsk

Russians from Petersburg and Smolensk look the same, ethnic Russians living in Yakutia are indistinguishablefrom Russians living in other regions.

>>72279961


I'll grant you that your old capital St. Pete probably reflects the general demographics of Russia but the small towns in NW Russia would have non-Slavic looking individuals.
It's proven by genetic studies that Slavs didn't replace prior populations.

>>72278712
thats helsinki

>>72280048

Oh, I remember you, you're that schizophrenic finn claiming Russia (and particularly all the territories to the north of Moscow) is originally a Finnic land.

>It's proven by genetic studies that Slavs didn't replace prior populations.

What studies? Could you post a link please, I'd like to read about them too.

>>72280282

>schizophrenic

Lmao, it's a well known fact you retard.

Kostromans look intermediate between Saami people and Slavs but not much like Finns.

https://www.instagram.com/explore/locations/224564521/kostroma/

Baltic-Finns are just too mixed with local Baltic women I guess to look like these north Volga Finnics.

>>72280282
Well originally it was.


t: Other

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>>72280282
>>72280355

As for genetics...

>>72279913
wtf was ancient finns black?

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>>72280448
Yeah, for some reason Rurik also has a black hair, skin like a tatar and dark eyes.

Even though he's a Finnic kang. lmao

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>>72280448
yes.

>>72280492
the original Finns were dark haired, dark eyed and tan people who looked a lot like Inuit. modern Finns became like that through mixing with Balts and Germanics

you can see the original Finnic phenotype in some people, still, but Finns usually worship the Swedish Germanic phenotype due to colonialism in their country and discriminate against the so-called Old Finns ("vanhasuomalaisia" is a popular swear word) which is very sad

>>72280551

t. Siuntiolainen

Tummat hämäläiset on muuten saamelaisten jälkeläisiä eivät suomalaisten

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>>72279840
>TFW you will never post YouTube videos of yourself getting drunk on the Finnish taxpayers' dime

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>>72280593
SE ON VITTU MEEMI SENKIN DIPPI

>>72280582
really makes you think...

>>72280611

Juu siuntiolaishurrin meemi se on

>>72277492
It's a shame for my country see this degenerated chimp asking for finnish boys.

>>72280582
you're really bad at shitposting and it's too obvious. I consider Ikibey to be better at this and he only knows one sentence.

>>72280582

ARE YOU HAVING A GIGLE YOU TURKISH FUCK?
IS IT FUNNY? HUH?

>>72277219
Yes theyre

>>72280492
That's one of many depictions of him.

>>72278583
I have seen many girls like her. Also not all Finns look like creeps that fionnposters like to show us here for fun. We have some types which are literally the same, both men and women.

>>72279830
What's the difference, my dear... what's the generic Hungarian name?

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>>72280492
He is portrayed as a generic Cossack here with Cossack features (Slavic + Turkish) and moustache. Due to heavy influence of Southern church and some Cossack culture it was popular and dark types were seen as attractve and exotic through centuries here in the North. Writers often made girl characters with dark hair and black eyes, they were in songs, etc. 'Black-eyed, black-browed' theme is very notable. Look at modern day Ukrainians, those of them who are dark are real ethnic Ukrainians, the descendants of those medieval Cossacks.

>>72279313
Too bad N1c1 predates the concept of mongols by tens of thousands of years and trying to simplify it as you did just goes to show that the attempts was made by someone who knows nothing about the subject.

As someone else mentioned before it's pointless to argue. Finns will remain the most blonde and blue-eyed people in the world regardless of the misinformed opinions propagated on /int/ and there's nothing even the most self-hating rat can do about it.

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>>72277219
Person from Komi, Russia.

(Very close relative of Finnish nationals)

>>72282772
>Finns will remain the most blonde and blue-eyed people in the world
Acknowledging our Asiatic origin doesn't undo that, you know.

t. other

>>72282772

N1c is still connected by origin to the land of the Mongols which gives some validity the idea that Finns are in fact Mongols in some way.
Besides, it's flattering to Finns to be associated with Mongols which makes the maymay so fun for us.

I have brown hair and green eyes so why the fuck should I care about blonde hair and blue eyes anyway?

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>>72282772
>Too bad N1c1 predates the concept of mongols
They definitely weren't blonde and blue-eyed, that much we can say.

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>>72283021
>>72283072
What interests me most is the self-hating some finns showcase on /int/ when it comes to discussing the racial history of baltic finns and assorted finnic populations.

They will argue to the ends of the earth that finns are dark haired, slanty eyed, 1.65 cm asian looking mongoloids as if it produced some king od sexual pleasure in them. I imagine it is some form of emotional sadomasochistic play similar to american cuckoldry and black bulls or israeli holocaust porn. The thought of being racially inferior gets their libido running harder than nothing else. They literally get off on anonymous users of 4chan calling them mongols and will even enforce this meme by cherrypicking pictures of other finns who are squinting in direct sunlight or are just traditionally ugly.

Very fascinating but also slightly sad since for the past 7 years it has been impossible to post under a finnish flag in threads that are about asians or haplogroups.

>>72283293
>it's flattering to Finns to be associated with Mongols
>They will argue to the ends of the earth that finns are dark haired, slanty eyed, 1.65 cm asian looking mongoloids ... I imagine it is some form of emotional sadomasochistic play
??????
Choose one

>>72283293
>They will argue to the ends of the earth that finns are dark haired, slanty eyed, 1.65 cm asian looking mongoloids
Nobody does that unironically, it's fun to trigger Aryanists with it though seeing as most of our mtDNA is Indo-European. But it's NRM-tier to claim that Proto-N1c1 were blonde and blue-eyed and went on to conquer Siberia or some other ridiculous bullshit.

>>72283293
Holy shit so much this.


>>72283393
Probably not the same guy and it still wouldn't be the same since the finns forcing the mongol meme force it in way that makes it look unpleasant and not that they'd actually be proud of such sort of thing, you've seen it.

t. Other ofc.

>>72283427
No one was "blonde" that far back you silly autist. It's a practical genetic defect that developed on some populations who by maybe selective breeding or bottlenecking acquired the trait.

You if any would know this.

>>72283293

I think you're a bit mental ill which explains why you're in denial about these things.

Finns linguistic and paternal ancestors obviously weren't blonde. Maybe they were 165 cm but that wasn't unusual in the distant past since everyone was shorter.

It's not a cuckold fantasy to acknowledge Finns have mixed origins which is the source of this blond hair and blue eyes you obsess about.

I bet you've never said anything to a Swedish shitposter who said Finns got blond hair from Swedish colonists mixing with Finnish women because that kind of cuck fantasy is your kind of thing(and false).

>>72283452
Surely many of those types are proxies or Fennoswedes?

>>72283564
Delusional idiots who've gone too deep into the rabbit hole and are slowly losing it.

that's my uneducated guess.

>>72283534
Those traits developed independently only once in the history of Eurasia, so selective breeding seems most likely. But that's what I've said from the start.

>Finns are a mixture of Sibero-Uralic and European people

>RÄÄÄÄÄ FUCK FACTS!!! WE IZ BLONDIZ AND SHIT FUCKIGN HELL STOP THIS WE WUZ NORD RÄÄÄÄÄ THIS IS LIES! KEK KEK KEK!

>>72283706
>WE IZ BLONDIZ AND SHIT
Well we are and we don't look mongols, take it easy. We don't know what we looked tens of thousands of years ago and your guesswork is as good as mine so you might aswell just drop it. When we started to descend from volga at that point we weren't asian looking for sure. As we can look at the current and past depictions of the volga-finns we descend from. So you'd have to go further than Urals to find us looking asian. And that's so long ago. You might aswell call humans just cryptoniggers from africa for the sake of your argument.

>>72283706
Great example of a proud steppe warrior.
Praise tengri and throatsing my mongol brother! (that was a freebie you can jerk off to later ;))

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Finns are from Altay Mountains, that's it.

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>>72283883
>You might aswell call humans just cryptoniggers from africa for the sake of your argument.
hmm

t. other

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>>72284138
I know it's a rather disputed origin story but it dominates the narrative so i used it. Thank you, any more questions?

>>72283883

>tens

No point going back so far. Uralic languages are only 5000 years old. Some even bring it down to 4000 but these aren't mainstream views or realistic anyway.
So our ancestors 5000 years ago were in West Siberia. They probably looked like West Siberians.
But they soon got into contact with Indo-Aryan charioteer people coming from the west and that changed everything forever. They adapted to a different more mobile and warlike way of life, probably out of necessity to defend themselves. These Indo-Aryan charioteers were the strongest fighting force on earth that could take out entire civilizations in India and Middle East.

Contact with the charioteers resulted in our ancestors becoming quite an efficient fighting force themselves that was capable of spreading itself west into domains had been the property of Indo-Europeans and paleo-Europeans. During these days, they mixed with women of European descent and acquired these traits like blond hair at least to some degree.
Much later on their mixed descendants spread to Finland and also dominated over previous populations, quite backwards and weak compared to them and probably became even blonder.

>>72277219
She's cute

>>72284224
Wew lad, I actually thought you believed the stuff you were saying in other threads about "superior Finno-Ugrics" bringing civilisation to Indo-Aryans who they completely dominated and chose the blondest women from for breeding.

>>72284138
>russian geneticists
I bet you listen to alex jones too

>>72283883
N is a sister haplogroup with O, the dominant lineage of East Asia. I can't really imagine Proto-N1c1 looking like anything but Mongoloid, pre-proto-Mongoloid or some other unknown variant of the type. Them being just pure unaltered Mongoloids is most probable though, which gets the knickers of NRM dudes in a twist. Hence the fantasy of N1c1 Aryans who set out to conquer Asia. In any event: our origin lies in the Sayan Mountains and we're distinct from other Europeans in that regard. It shouldn't be dismissed just because it might hurt a few Stormfags' feelings.

>>72284429

Uralics were better fighters than the lower tier Indo-Europeans in Europe but the Sintashta charioteers were probably stronger.
Uralics could still hold their ground against them though.

>>72284203
>I know it's a rather disputed origin story

no, it isn't unless something completely extraordinary and totally-radical-dude comes up

Klyosov is...well...

>>72284504
>I can't really imagine Proto-N1c1 looking like anything but Mongoloid
well then I'm imagining them 3 meters tall with bright pink hair and orange skin.
too bad imagination is irrelevant in this discussion.

>>72284595
Sorry, should've added that most anthropologists and dominating experts of the field cannot either. N is a Mongoloid haplogroup.

>>72284686
Proofs?
You seem to be an expert on the subject so surely you can cite the exact studies which say, in your exact words, that "N is a Mongoloid haplogroup".

I'll be waiting.

>>72282945
Why do Asian women wannabe white

>>72284758

"A counter-clockwise northern route of the Y-chromosome haplogroup N from Southeast Asia towards Europe" Rootsi et al 2006

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v15/n2/full/5201748a.html

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>>72277219
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyov6dyghz4

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>>72284429
>chose the blondest women from for breeding
That'd be true, they gave us their technology and women. Whether willingly or not is another thing.

>>72284528
>Uralics were better fighters than the lower tier Indo-Europeans in Europe
Only due to to eastern Indo-European influence though tbf.

>>72284931
what

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>>72278358
>>72278415
this

I'm reading a book atm about Hungarian raids in the west. It states that 1/10-9th of the Hungarian adult males died in those "kalandozások". The young hungarians and the original inhabitants were denied of joining raids so they stood at home with the women.

You can figoure out the rest.

>>72286340

Do people from eastern Hungary look different from western?

>>72278358
>>72278415
>>72286340
The difference is that Hungarians are assimilated Central Europeans, whereas we diluted our genes by mixing with Indo-Aryan women.

literally who gives a shit about any of this

>>72286643
imo eastern hungarians have a darker complexion compared to western hungarians who look more germanic

>>72278335
Dubsteppe Best Steppe