They should be an only country.

>>71109515
Nope they don't like each other too much

>>71109515
the Portuguese would hate it.

>>71109515 Spaind and Portugal are like Argentina and Brazil...

>>71109614
The Catalans hate it aswell but Spain doesnt care

>>71109515

I disagree, would love to explain the reasons but just by seeing your flag seems like just a waste of time.

I want to kill myself, my life has been miserable since 2009, and even than it was just bereable :(

>>71109684
Why should care

Why everyone wants to tie us together?
I want to marry Italy instead

>>71109515
I agree. And I should know spanish instead of portuguese.

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>>71109821

>>71109856
how can you morally justify forcing people to stay in your country against their free will?

>>71109895
Because shape wise doesn't make sense to be divided.

we are too different, despite what you may think.
Spain shares more with Italy

tgvrfd

>>71109965
what did he mean by this

>>71109908
Because they use services and stuff built with taxpayers' money. If they form a new territory with a new government, it is stealing.

>>71109908
Because it is not a real feeling. The catalan nationalism was a meme 5/6 years ago. They only got radicalized because of the economical crisis.

>>71109945
But it does, the border follows rivers and mountains

>>71110045
and didnt they pay taxes?

No, but Argentina should definitely be Spain.

>>71110182
This.

>>71109908
So just because a bunch of ignorant and deceived people wants to separate from the rest of the country we should give them the independence. That's why democracy is an error

>it's a filthy new worlder has an opinion about European borders thread

>>71110182
>>71110216
Never, spaniards hate us.

>>71110269
They hate each other all the time. It just serves to show how much you belong in Spain.

>>71110269
But we don't

>>71110138
but its up to them to decide, isn't it?

>>71110225
why would you want a bunch of ignorant and deceived people in your country?

>>71110269
There is not an alternative!
ARGENTINA ES NUESTRA ( 5 VECES)
A LAS ARMAS ESPAÑOL
A DEFENDER LO NUESTRO
CONTRA LA VIL TRAICIÓN
DEL BÁRBARO CRIOLLO

ARGENTINA ES NUESTRA
GRITARÉ
Y CON SANGRE Y FUEGO
LA DEFENDERÉ
ARGENTINA ES NUESTRA(5 VECES)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thHk3RnNA9M

>>71110333
>Let´s give them independence because there is an economical crisis
>Constituional rights and laws What is that?

Truly the germans are the jews of yurop.

>>71110156

55% of the spanish debt belongs to catalonia, there is no escape now, their ex-president who was in charge for 23 years took bribes (3-5% commission for every construction work done in catalonia in 23 year), that makes him the second wealthiest guy in Spain but police can't access the money because it is all in several tax heavens around the world.

this entire independence thing is nothing but trying to escape Spanish justice, sooner or later he and the same faggots who support the independecy and knew everything about this will be in jail or taken apart from political positions.

also why should a small region have more right than others? catalonia independence is just as serious as if my neighbor wanted to seccede his house from the rest of the country.

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>>71110426

>>71109515
>the daily ''why isn't portugal part of spain'' thread
Portugal has always been militarly superior in quality and always had the defensive edge.After we defeated them in the battles we would run them out until extremadura and would raid the border regions of spain.We never wanted to conquer spain because that would defeat the fucking purpose...
Our nationalism is based on our isolation.We're basically a fucking island.The border regions of spain except galicia are all empty after centuries of raiding and destruction of their cities...
If we had conquered spain we would have had to control their rebelious movements and etc...
We absolutely love our language and culture and our less latin/southern european thinking/mentality.
You probably don't get it because you speak a disgusting fucking language tainted by arabic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Portuguese_and_Spanish#Arabic_influence

>>71110525
But don't they have an ethnic basis for wanting independence?

Safeguarding a country's borders by making it unconstitutional, having the constitution unchangeable unless it's the will of the vast majority of the people and using this against the minority of the people who want their nation to be independent is pretty douchebag tier.

>>71110525
if constitution and laws opress people, then there is something wrong there

>>71110557
sounds like spain would be better off without catalonia
really selfless of you to keep them in your country against their will and protect them from denbs :DDD

>>71110688
>But don't they have an ethnic basis for wanting independence?

Valencia and illes ballears are also catalonian ethnically and they fucking want to be part of Spain. In fact, the most radical nationalist groups are over there.

>>71110732
Don't you get it that if Catalunya becomes independent spain get's automatically fucked?A worse crisis than the 2008 one would happen and the spanish unemployment would rocket into the 30% values...
It would be unfair for the other spanish citizens...
But it's clear that this ''spanish dream'' is flawed and a fucking mistake...

>>71110774
ah, ok. I thought they wanted independence as well
fuck the catalans then

>>71110616
lol Do you remember when you were our colony?
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_sucesoria_portuguesa_de_1580

And about the Arabic thing, don't make me go for an haplogroups map...

>>71110525
>germans
He is a Juan

>>71110688
>But don't they have an ethnic basis for wanting independence?

Não, Catalunha nunca foi um pais independente en toda a sua existencia e não tem previlegios especiais, seria o mesmo que a Madeira pedisse a independencia de Portugal.

>>71110732
>if constitution and laws opress people, then there is something wrong there
Let´s take a look. They can speak the language. Most of the education in Catalonia is in CATALAN. They have their own POLICE, THEIR OWN LAWS.
Yes fucking Spanish opressor (sarcasm)

>>71109630
but we don't hate each other in real life

Why isn't Austria a part of Germany? Why isn't Canada a part of the United States? Why isn't Belgium a part of the Netherlands? Why isn't Norway a part of Sweden? Why isn't New Zealand a part of Australia? Why isn't Moldova a part of Romania? Why isn't Ukraine a part of Russia? Why isn't Azerbaijan a part of Turkey? Why isn't the Faroe Islands a part of Iceland? Why isn't Ireland a part of the UK?

Because there are differences, more than you'll ever know of.

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>>71110865
>haplogroup maps
Hahhaha.With a sample of 1000 people you can present your narrative in any way you want and haplogroups really?

>>71110847
but spaniards in this thread told me that catalonia is a net drain for them

>>71110903
then why not let them have a referendum?
I dont even understand why you care. If they left and stayed in the EU, nothing would change for you

>>71110903
Pues yo les daba la patada...

>>71110865
We were independent kingdoms under Filipe I.
And why are you so proud about having your king legitimately inherit the title of his nephew?Filipe I was the heir of our king...Our nobles even supported Filipe claim...

>>71110732
>opress

top lel Jordi 10/10

>>71110951
East andalusia is whiter than North Portugal. That is all what I need to say about the whiteness of Portuguese people.

>>71110984
>If they left and stayed in the EU
Thats not how the EU works

>>71110984
No,it's not a net drain.Net drain is the basque region that is breastfed in order for them to not have secessionist movements

>>71110732
why is Bavaria not independent? Different religion, wealthier, paying for Prussia, more socially connservative? Why doesnt it secede?
At least it existed as an indpendent kingdom in the modern era.
>County of Catalonia
1,000 years ago
Crown of Aragon != County of Catalonia

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>>71111059
Sure,sure.
Don't forget to go pray in your local mosque,Alfonso Almodóvar

>>71111059

joder Miguel, ni tu mismo te cres esa tonteria que has escrito.

>>71111078
because the party for Bavarian independance has less than 2% of votes

>>71111063
it can, as long as spain doesnt block them

>>71110997
Lo malo es que después de los catalanes van el resto y el país se iría a la mierda. Es un todo o nada, Paco.

>>71110984
>I dont even understand why you care.

Because it is illegal. Our constitution says very clear that secession is a crime.

Portugal is Spain but Portuguese people are not glorious Spaniard master race. So the solution is the expulsion of the Portuguese.

Portugal is for Spain like Kosovo for Serbia, despite Kosovo is Serbia Albanian-Kosovars are not Serbians.

>>71110951
From the mouth of the horse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JhmjO6jWNo

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>>71111142
Según los haplomemes, el este de Andalucía es castilla tier.

>>71111234
>Portugal is Spain but Portuguese people are not glorious Spaniard master race.

This. We can close the thread now.

>>71111219
>Because it is illegal
so only reason you keep the people in your country against their will is a peace of paper?

>>71110951
that map is useless. Toponyms are city/land names.
it only shows that the suebi (and their fellow tribes) made land reforms and actually settled and worked the land. As opposed to the visigoths and alans who didn't give a shit about the land, only riches and power
the regions not coloured around Leon and were a strongholf of the Legio VII Gemina (7th legion) and kept their roman-celt-iberian names. While the basque region also is uncoloured because beasqueland is fucking innaccessible and not worth the trouble

>>71111303
¿Seguro que sabes leer ese mapa?

>>71111308
A peace of paper mantains the peace in the modern societies. The human rights are a peace of paper as well, the laws, science so on.

>>71111219
Cuando se fuese Cataluña y viesen el resultado ya verías como el resto no se iba.

>>71111303

Cuando estuve en Jaén me sorprendió la blancura de la gente, pero más todavía la blancura de la gente de las Alpujarras. Yo creo que esa gente desciende directamente de cristianos del norte y nunca se han mezclado.

Ahora bien, la cantidad de gitanos que vi en la ciudad de Granada sobrepasó todo límite aceptable, ni en la Cañada Real señores.

>>71111426
but human rights have a good reason to exist, not just "lol we wrote it down once so we should do it forever"

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>>71109515
Compare both languages and tell me why we're not one.

portuguese:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-NeKMhc-ro&

spanish:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EklBka7foAQ

>>71111485
>human rights have a good reason to exist

Isn't it the time to go out with your cardboard to welcome refugees?

>>71111174
>as long as spain doesnt block them
[The urge of other Spanish or European territories to secede intensifies]
The EU (atleast for now) has far more issues then the special snowflakes
>Inb4 b-but other separatist movements are a joke!

>>71110911 he's a kid, we love brbrbrbr

>>71110616
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Portuguese_and_Spanish#Arabic_influence

That list is a complete meme, I wouldn't be exaggerating if I said I never heard 75% of these allegedly "common" words.

>>71111588
I dont understand why you look down at refugee and side with people who see you as subhuman

>>71110871
your lads are evil like jews

>>71111308
>so only reason you keep the people in your country against their will is a peace of paper?

Why only Catalan people can decide about this area of Spain? We are not a Kingdom of nations like UK, we are a nation and every corner of Spain belongs to every single Spaniard.

I have spent years paying my taxes so that Catalonia, Andalusia, Murcia or any other region can have their roads, their defense and their health. There are a lot of people from Madrid or Andalusia with apartments in Catalonia and a lot of Catalans with apartments in many other areas of Spain.

>>71111485
it's a gentlemen's agreement, nothing more. You only are a gentleman if you abide by it.

But if a gentleman breaks it, it no longer has any value whatsoever. If you overcomplicate it and add stupid rules it loses its value. If you manipulate and create exceptions just because, it loses all its value.

The moment the current status-quo breaks, so will the relevance of human rights. As sad as it may be.

>>71110616
>If we had conquered spain

Lel.

Provenza.

>>71111770
but human rights have a genuine advantage.
It is nice to know that you and me have some rights which the governemt cant simply abuse

what is the benefit of opressing catalonian minorities?

>>71111762
but didnt Catalan people also pay taxes from which you benefit?
Also, if they stay in EU, you are gonna be free to move to and live in Catalonia, whenever you desire

>>71111896
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Toro

>>71111472
Granada es un shithole lleno de perroflautas. Hay más andalucistas en Granada que en Málaga y Málaga es donde nació Blas Infante. Sobre los jienenses, eso es común en todo este mierdero.

>UUUUhh hay blancos en jandalucía del este
Vuestro obsesión de mandar hordas tras horda de Italianos y Krauts sirvió para algo.

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why would spain want a piece of shit rectangule full of niggers in the souuth and rednecks in the north?

>>71111918

Why a guy from Gerona should decide about Tarragona or Barcelona?

According to the electoral results the independence could be majority in Gerona and Lerida but minority in Tarragona and Barcelona. The referendum would just break Catalonia, not Spain.

>be portuguese king
>go fight churkas for no good reason
>die
>get annexed

>>71112103
I am not so familiar with Spanish geography, but if the majority of Catalan people want independance, I think it should be granted to them

>>71111972
> Castilians and Portuguese against other Castilians and Aragonesians.
> Result : Inconclusive

>>71112090
stop anon, your country is ok but barbarians are fucking us (economically)

>>71112106
>for no reason
our king wanted to rid north africa of islam,we was going to push the islamic forces up to tunis and asked for your king's help.Your king accepted but when it was time to join forces in north africa your king didn't honor the call and our king said''fuck it and went on anyway

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>>71110616
You are fucking delusional. Why are some Portuguese so obnoxious and have such a rancid vision of their nationalism? You basically won a medieval battle against a loose coalition of other Iberian Crowns and French allies IN YOUR TERRITORY, having the advantadge of the terrain and supplies, with the help of the fricking English longbowmen and always having in mind the "medieval chronicles" for the ridiculous numbers you put in your favour for that battle.

It would be as senseless as France and England forming a country

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>>71112184
If we had won the battle we would have put a portuguese queen in your throne and the iberian wedding would have not happened.It would basically assure portuguese dominance over spain instead of castillian over aragon
>>71112254
>english bowman
they were like 100...hahaha....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_invasion_of_Portugal_(1762)

Go dance some flamengo mouro do caralho...

>>71112144

For the same reason if the majority of people from Barcelona, Tarragona and the Aran valley wants to stay in Spain they should stay in Spain.

>>71112225
I said for no good reason, not for no reason. It was a harebrained scheme that would have led nowhere, even without the defeat at alcazarquivir.

>>71112471
Why do you think so?The ottoman rule of north africa was weakened

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>>71112334
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_War
> Because no major battles were fought, even though there were numerous movements of troops and huge

HAHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHA

So, again, terrain, most people "dead" by hunger or """"dead"""" by desertion.

Cool story mouro.

>>71110616
>If we had conquered spain

XD

>>71112535
So basically 25000 spanish troops died for nothing and by hunger of all things...
>>71112562
We were never interest in conquering spain...Don't you understand?

>>71110333
>I am not listening because it hurts muh feelings
Why should they be able to secede but my block of apartments can declare independence?

This thread is the reason of why we will never be together

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>>71112658
(((25.000)))

It's all more simple, whoever has France on their side loses.

>>71112666
because you care about your fellow countrymen and what whats best for them

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>DIS TRÉD

calem-se autistas de merda, sempre com discussões de batalhas e o caralho.
ambos os países são merda, sendo a Espanha um bocadinho menos merda.

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>>71112658
>We were never interest in conquering spain

Sure, because If you had been interested you would have gotten it, right?

>>71112525
Yes, but the best we could hope for was for Muley Ahmed to act as our puppet, and he was a treacherous sort who betrayed his father and would have turned against us infidels at the first chance he got

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>>71112717
You know who starts this shit always with "muh military superiority against Spaniards" meme, forgetting all the times we beat you and your Anglo allies asses.

>>71112717
>>71112672
this

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>>71110616
>If we had conquered spain

>>71110616
>Portugal has always been militarly superior in quality and always had the defensive edge.After we defeated them in the battles we would run them out until extremadura and would raid the border regions of spain.We never wanted to conquer spain because that would defeat the fucking purpose...
>Wars between Castille and Portugal
>First Fernandine war
Crushing Castillian victory
>Second Fernandine war
Crushing Castillian victory
>Third Fernandine wae
Crushing Castillian victory
>Crisis of 1385
Portuguese victory
>Castillian civil war
Crushing Castillian victory
>1580 crisis
Castillian invasion of Portugal
>1640 revolt
Portuguese Independence declared
>Seven years war.
Portuguese logistic victory in the peninsula and conquest of Spain of most of Brazil
>War of 1776
Spanish victory over Portugal
>War of the oranges
Spanish victory over Portugal
>Spanish invasion of Portugal 1807
Spanish victory

>>71112805
Hum,maybe if we asked England we would have.
Basically everytime you invaded us we would push you back and raid your border regions...

>>71112822
The portuguese were on your side in that battle you moron,can't you fucking read

>>71110616
>If we had conquered spain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1wpOTdd9TA

>>71109582
>t. Hispano expert, when he actually sits on a toilet and has time to browse 4chan

>>71112334
>Fantastic_War
Do you realize that not a single battle happened and just a bunch of undersupplied soldiers ied of smallpox? In the end most of the Brazil was conquered at the end of the war

>>71112714
>because you care about your fellow countrymen and what whats best for them
The same applies to Catalonia then

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>>71113000

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>>71112929
Oh yes I'm sure most of our troops were Portuguese, HOW ELSE COULD HAVE WE WON EH? Your superior portuguese warrior genes are nothing comparable in the planet amiritie? Like those superior portuguese genes fighting for Prior of Crato on the other side along with the English and the Dutch that got slaughtered by ACTUAL CASTILLIAN armies and local militias, because not a single fricking Portuguese Terço was present in that battle on the Iberian Union side, you fucking delusional, tiresome retard.

>>71113166
By the way, pic related was to show you how Hispano-Portuguese battles "chronicles" work.

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>>71112882
Nope.The Portuguese king tried to conquer Castile 3 times during a civil war and he lost 3 times.In all the wars he had aid from England.Note that it was during a civil war.A split Castile was more powerful than Portugal.The Marquis of Cadiz and the master of Santiago had a bigger standing army than the king of Portugal in the XV century

>>71112859
>fernandine wars
Where does it say that you won the fernandine wars?
>castillian civil war
portugal was not involved
>1580 crisis
We supported Filipe I as legitimate heir to our king,you were fighting pretenders.
>War of 1776
That was in south america and you lost all that in the next year.
>war of the oranges
are you sure you won anything valuable?
''Portuguese territory returned, except Olivenza, and border territories, which remained in Spanish possession; France territorial guarantees in Trinidad, Port Mahon (Minorca) and Malta, as well as lands north of Brazil; Southern Spanish America loses territory to Portuguese Brazil''

>Spanish invasion of Portugal 1807
HAHAHAH you're taking credit for the french invasion of Portugal? HAHAHAHAHAH
Do you want me to post all those battles we won agaisn't you?You know,that image

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<--- ¿Quién hizo esto y sobre todo quién le puso el nombre?

It's always the same fucking autists posting in these threads. You don't contribute anything to your country and everything that ever made both countries great has nothing to do with you shitposting on a chinese food delivery website

>>71113293
>Where does it say that you won the fernandine wars?
>Portuguese king tries to invade Castile
>Loses all his army and his fleet gets destroy
>HEHEHE we are cool now.It is obviously and stalement
>We supported Filipe I as legitimate heir to our king,you were fighting pretenders.
Most of the country supported the pretender
>you lost all that in the next year.
During the peace treaty...
>are you sure you won anything valuable?
Nope.It was a pretty indefferent war in which the Spanish army pillaged half of Portugal and the Portuguese surrendered in under a weak in exchange of giving back some useless fortress and reparations
>HAHAHAH you're taking credit for the french invasion of Portugal? HAHAHAHAHAH
Half of the army was Spanish
>Do you want me to post all those battles we won agaisn't you?You know,that image
>Infographics
Portuguese """"historians""""" lied a lot and when they lost a battle they just call it inconclusive like >>71113166. Most of the battles were skirmishes and when the Portuguese won they claim to have fought against 1000000 people

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I'm so tired of this shit, I sometimes end up exhausted after reading /int/, you guys are so fucking boring, I'm starting to think that the globalists got the right idea with you, nationalists, and your eternal complex of superiority towards other peoples.

>All those autists posting screenshots from wikipedia

Rule Portugal!
Portugal rule the waves
Portugas never, never, never shall be slaves.
Rule Portugal!
Portugal rule the waves.
Portugas never, never, never shall be slaves.

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>>71113470
>most of the country
The nobles had the armies,or do you think the peasents mattered?
>>71113470
100 ENGLISH BOWMAN OHMYGOD

I'm posting nude on this thread.

>>71113682
>or do you think the peasents mattered?
Crato was supported by the clergy and most of the none Lisboetan nobility

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>>71113475
you should try it once in a while, it's a lot of fun

besides, we generaly stay on the same side when the threads go on bashing either of us. We have the same thing going with the brazileans too.

later on we all get /confy/ anyway, so just way til then

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>>71109515