>you're country >is it free?

>>70349549
>and all your political parties are essentially the same (example: both left and right parties are for open borders), you're not free

Pretty much no country is free right now then, including the United States

Freedom of speech is a myth, just like freedom of the press. All press is partisan to a degree. The "freedom" you'll have in your speech is determined by the current political party in power.

Actually, freedom is measured by two things:
a. does the power come from the people
b. does the government adhere by the mandate of the people

And America tends to fail majorly at b.

>>70349549
america first, netherlands second

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-xxis7hDOE&t=39s

>>70349838
Once your government exceeds it's mandate it's no longer acting as a legitimate government.

>have a de facto police state
>can't drink before 21
>retarded drug laws
>highest incarceration rate in the world
>get your dick snipped before turning 1
>home of SJW culture that hates able bodied cis white men
>voicing your support of Trump literally gets you assaulted
>affirmative action everywhere

>free

>>70349768
this might sound too normal but at the same time its a pretty realistic insight 2bh yeah theres always some fashion that takes over mainstream including the current regime in power, and people and media are just driven and biased by it and some of the consequences talk what freedom is like.

>>70349678
it depends on the topic

I'd argue that the only real thing Dems and Repubs aren't different in is the fact that the Democrats are about as capitalistic as republicans. same shit, slightly different approach. other things are different then.

i tend to see that european political parties have different economic policies debated, but every single party with any chance follows the same political correctness agenda.

>>70349549
>and all your political parties are essentially the same
No self awareness what so ever.

>>70350118
>>have a de facto police state
explain
>>can't drink before 21
agreed, it's absurd but not oppresive. just retarded.
>>retarded drug laws
not in all states
>>highest incarceration rate in the world
i think reform should be made, but i can't say that imprisoning criminals is a violation of freedom
>>get your dick snipped before turning 1
agreed, absolutly horrendous but that is because the parents choose to. there is no state enforcment, and i won't get my son snipped as i was.
>>home of SJW culture that hates able bodied cis white men
that was taken to like a duck on water by europeans
most of y'all have taken it much further than we could
>>voicing your support of Trump literally gets you assaulted
which is illegal, and they've been met with law enforcment
>>affirmative action everywhere
i can't remember if that is state-enforced, i thought it was just a private decision, that would be ostracized by liberals and their media if you didn't do it

>>70350795
>explain
Not him, but he obviously refers to your lack of privacy. Security from the government.

>>70350772
see
>>70350629
the levels of hysteria from the left this election has proven we are quite different in social regards

also

>americans
>free

>>70350833
i don't know man, we have plenty of privacy laws, i hear in many European countries LEOs can at any given time without warning see how your firearms are stored if you own a weapon

our 4th Amendment specifically protects us in this, and only long-gone shitholes like NYC allow frisking.

>>70350795
>there is no state enforcment,
Somebody post it.

File: carrier_logo-300x157.png (38KB, 300x157px)

38KB, 300x157px

>>70349838
>does the government adhere by the mandate of the people
Yes.

>>70350929
Trump specifically wants to make stop and frisk federal you moron.

>>70349904
i wanna visit Netherlands now

>>70350929
>we have plenty of privacy laws
Here it's illegal for ISP's to watch your internet traffic. There are no decryption orders. There is no mass surveillance (yet).

>without warning see how your firearms are stored if you own a weapon
Your second amendment is meant to protect you from a government that exceeds it's mandate, which it does. But apparently it does nothing as your government officials are all still there.

We elected a King for that reason. Who can sack the entire government if it steps outside of it's boundaries. We have senate that only checks if laws are constitutional or not, while in the USA you have to wait until the supreme court. And our judges are independent of our any political parties, unlike the USA. So our supreme court doesn't consist of biased shits.

>>70351018
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/trump-stop-and-frisk-only-chicago-228516
this is one of the areas that i disagree with him still

nonetheless, i do not know the specifics about it's prevalence in Europe. How is it in regards to this over there?

>>70351157
>Here it's illegal for ISP's to watch your internet traffic. There are no decryption orders. There is no mass surveillance (yet).
this i do not argue against. the government needs to curtail their domestic surveillance, but while terrorism is still a threat they will hide behind it's existence as an excuse. I hope this changes.

>>70351157
>our second amendment is meant to protect you from a government that exceeds it's mandate, which it does. But apparently it does nothing as your government officials are all still there.
Trump's election has proven that by the established laws in this country, we can still make changes in policy.
however, i was asking about search and seizure regarding weapons as a privacy issue, not a philosophy of firearms ownership issue.

>>70350939
looking deeper into it, i tend to find that it changes heavily based on state.
my current state (Texas) has a rather good record, but the state i will begrudgingly move to next (Colorado) is not.

i hope with a republican-majority Supreme Court, this changes.

>>70351555
>i hope this changes
Look at who your president is and his policy on "cyber".

>>70350629
Geert Wilders has a good chance of winning the elections here in March, and he's about as anti-PC as you can get.
Whether he's able to form a coalition and become PM is another question.

>>70350795
I actually wasn't trying to start an argument or say the US is less free than other countries, but my point was that "freedom" can be measured in a lot of ways. For the US it seems to be based mostly around the second amendment, for others (me included) this might be different.

The police state thing was a reference to the enormous US law enforcement apparatus both on local, city, state and federal level.

>>70351555
>while terrorism is still a threat they will hide behind it's existence as an excuse
Here the leaders of all 11 political parties are in the commission that supervises the secret service. So no one party controls it. The opposition parties can just pull the break on any spying if they deem it excessive.

>search and seizure regarding weapons as a privacy issue
Well, we have no wild nature or remote towns. So there is no reason to own a gun. If you sign up to own a gun then you also sign up for checks to see if it's safely handled.

>>70351790
>Geert Wilders has a good chance of winning the elections here in March, and he's about as anti-PC as you can get.
>Whether he's able to form a coalition and become PM is another question.
best of luck

>I actually wasn't trying to start an argument or say the US is less free than other countries, but my point was that "freedom" can be measured in a lot of ways. For the US it seems to be based mostly around the second amendment, for others (me included) this might be different.
We tend to take pride in our 1st and 4th Amendments though, i just think our 2nd amendment has the most contrast with the rest of the West.
Also, it's a lot more nuanced to discuss the 1st and 4th than it is the 2nd. the debate is still hot between Dems and Repubs on things like Hate Speech.

>The police state thing was a reference to the enormous US law enforcement apparatus both on local, city, state and federal level.
i don't mind their size, but rather their function
locally, it changes where you go. a right-wing federal government might hopefully crack down on more authoritarian states, but lefties might suddenly change their mind on governemnt overreach now that they aren't in charge.

>>70350795
>i can't remember if that is state-enforced, i thought it was just a private decision, that would be ostracized by liberals and their media if you didn't do it
IIRC it's wired like companies that do it get a tax benefit since they really can't force a company to hire people. I'm not sure about universities.

>>70351821
>Here the leaders of all 11 political parties are in the commission that supervises the secret service. So no one party controls it. The opposition parties can just pull the break on any spying if they deem it excessive.
i like that dynamic. i think that the Wikileaks phenomenon proved that the FBI/CIA were partisan in their choices. I hope they are made neutral into this next administration and sty there.

>Well, we have no wild nature or remote towns. So there is no reason to own a gun. If you sign up to own a gun then you also sign up for checks to see if it's safely handled.
i would argue that such a thing is overreaching on the governments behalf.

>>70352089
Until the beginning of last century weapons were legal here as well I believe. Until some prick threatened with a communist revolution.

The literal reason for banning guns was, and I quote: "vuurwapens te houden uit de handen van vuile socialisten"
Which means "keeping firearms out of the hands of filthy socialists"

>>70352091
in unis it tends to change by state i observe

>>70352196
>stay neutral
Or the more likely outcome where Trump stacks them for the republicans.

>>70352373
Unfortunately, it's tough to know.
I wouldn't have thought the FBI/CUA was stacked in Hillary's favor until it was demonstrated to be so. I *get* that the idea is the executive office appoints administrators there because it's supposedly the extended will if the people, but it's all too easy for it to become a praetorian guard.

>>70352237
Becoming what you hate is unfortunate.
I'd be of the mind that you should just meet force with greater force, let them be shown to be the savages and crush them when they try.

>>70352196
>i like that dynamic.
It does lead to some problems though. Because each party has only 1 person, the party leader, that knows what's going on behind closed doors. But he isn't allowed to talk about it in public. They can't even talk about it in parliament or to other party members, which can be a bit problematic.

>>70349549
Oh look, the country of gag orders is talking about free spech again.

File: germany.jpg (95KB, 569x640px) Image search: [Google]

95KB, 569x640px

>>70352882
t. Germany

File: IMG_4562.png (473KB, 600x580px) Image search: [Google]

473KB, 600x580px

>>70349549
>you're

>>70353074
>not understanding the meme
>german
makes sense

>>70353000
Whatever happened to this guy?

>>70353122
Weak excuse, please learn english before you post here.

>>70353184
he ded

>>70353184
Probably a fine or probation if this is his first time.

>>70353209
as a 420% Anglo-Saxon, i make the rules for english

>>70353184
Stasi got him

>>70353209
English is with a capital Eng.

>>70353316
You're obviously right.

>>70349549
If you have laws you are not free.

Everything else is semantics

>>70353555
In lawless situations you're more likely to be at the mercy of people with power. Not free.

>>70353620
>>70353555
Let's agree that no one is free.

>>70353620
There is a reason why some people were outlawed in the past. Not to make them free but to punish them.

>>70353555
t. anarchist

File: 7aGdxhe.jpg (19KB, 508x519px)

19KB, 508x519px

>>70349549
I'd rather live in a country that has clean drinking water 2bh