Trans-Pacific partnership

>>70333649
Yeah, China is going to pick up the scraps.

Pax Americana is finished.

>>70333710
I thought so to. The fact that one of the articles says that the partnership won't exist without America is another nail in the coffin
Like you said, I feel like trump did exactly what China wanted too

dead. that wouldve only benefited big exporting companies. and disneys shitty copyright treatment was gone with it as well. good riddance.

>>70333979
>dead
Along with Abenomics

>>70333979
So the jap's opinion of this were in disfavor? Interesting
Most Latin American anons whose countries signed this talked about it like it's their pass to development

>>70334010
>Along with
i havent been all for it, in the first place. i think i hate it.

tpp wasnt part of that shit. a lib party was going ahead with it for a shitty reason and the con party just took over it pandering to riches.

>>70334131
>it's their pass to development
mightve been for you. but for japan, it was nothing but for riches.

I remember my hippy history teacher complaining about TPP and now Trump's put it in the coffin. What is it and why does Trump as well as my old history teacher hate it?

A year ago literally everybody was opposed to TTP and TTIP but now that Trump is binning them, everybody is now a free trade fanatic. Didn't expect anything less.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Comprehensive_Economic_Partnership

>>70334777
god i hated the left chimping out against the TPP.

they wouldn't listen to anything, just shut their ears and kept yelling.

A honest debate about the TPP could have been good, but instead we got ''LALALALALALA, YOU SUCK, YOUR IDEAS SUCK''

I'm pretty neutral to Trump, but honestly, all sides being against free-trade so much this year depressed me quite a bit.

Anyway there'll be another one, just with China leading.

>>70333649
It's time for Australia to step up and become the dominant player in the pacific they were always destined to be.

>>70333649
Thank god. The only time I'd thanked the US.

>>70335773
most likely they'll become semi-Chinese cucks.

depending on how much the USA retreats from the area.

>>70333930
Actually, it seems like it's not completely over yet.

Especially Australia is pushing to keep the deal alive even without the US. It would include China and South Korea.

All nations, with the obvious exception - Japan, seem interested.

>>70335957
it's a paint-job. Nothing more.

only good could come if they combine the 2 agreements somehow, Australia may want this so they could try and keep some special clauses.

>>70336028
What are you talking about? It's completely different ffs.

TPP would've been centred around the US and this alternative one will be lead by China. There will be no other agreement, so they can't combine it with anything. US will be excluded from this.

TPP, which was completed and only needed approval from the US Congress, is now dead and TTIP, which was still being negotiated and would take years to complete, was killed by European countries.

>>70335957
If Japan is not in then there really is no point after all. We already have an FTA with the US, the rest can go die

>>70336208
i was talking about TPP and RCEP

>>70336404
yeah if China wants a FTA with the other asian countries, it will be Japan that they'll need to bring on board.

>>70336404
Japan is afraid of China and hates South Korea. It's natural that they're going to stay out of it if their colonial master and protector isn't on board.

TPP was included in the American Pivot to the Pacific, which was only about containing China. That's dead now and you have to accept this new reality.

>>70333649
Tr*mp gave Paicific Rim countries (40% of global GDP) on a platter to China without gaining a single concession.

But ya know #MAGA #winning and all that

>>70337110
Honestly, I have no problem with our new chinese overlords.

>>70334131
its not development for anyone m8
its just a bunch of ip regulation bullshit and corporatism

countries only develop with education and fostering creation of wealth

>>70337624
>education and fostering creation of wealth
Which doesn't happen if all your companies do is illegally duplicate foreign IPs.

>>70337624
>fostering creation of wealth
How would you aproach to do that?

>>70333649
>It's an Anglo surrender away their Empire episode

Good God, it's 1945 all over again

>>70334687
It was a deal aiming to get American influence into the booming Asia market which is great for America and their allies in the long run.

But at the same time it would've have grossly disrupted and displaced millions of American workers.
It would be fine if the people who stand to gain immensely from this would cut a percentage of their profits to retrain all the workers they've displaced like a civilized country.
But helping someone like that for free would commie pinko shit so those people would be shit out of luck.

It's a double edge sword. It would've be great for America in the long run but at the same time your telling millions of your own citizens "lol, good luck idiots. I gots mine" by pulling the rug out from under them with no system in place for them to get back on their feet.

>>70337854
NOT AGAIN :^(

>>70334131
>Latin American anons whose countries signed this talked about it like it's their pass to development
We've been hearing, "X is <Latin American Country>'s pass to development for how many decades?

>>70338252
Latin America will never be developed

Yes. Ultimately the biggest issue isn't the TPP itself but more like all current and future partnerships with America now that they've proven they value treaties like toilet paper and are clearly not trustworthy.

>>70338376
this.

few will trust America fully from now on, in this region at least.

>>70339339
>>70338376
>Trump hates NATO
>we already betrayed Eastern Europe once, to the Soviets
>millions raped, hundreds of thousands killed or disappeared, millions arrested and/or enslaved in the gulags
>but today they are free
>they are the only people actually grateful for our help
>they are happy to see our soldiers
>but we don't care apparently
>"WHY SHOULD WE CARE WHAT HAPPENS ALL THE WAY OVER THERE"

I-I'm so sorry. Idk why Americans are so cold and callous. I mean NATO is literally unironically about freedom, freedom from the Russian yoke, and Americans don't seem to care. It actually makes me sad, knowing that we're selling little countries like the Baltics, who don't stand a chance on their own, down the river. And for what? Closer ties with Russia?

FUCK RUSSIA and fuck Putin.

>>70338376
>>70338376
Tbf America's never had a populist in charge before, hence the surprise.

>>70339730
honestly not sure if this is sarcasm or not.

>>70339769
It was bound to happen. At it's core the US is as third world as the rest of americas.

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>>70339769
>America's never had a populist in charge before

>>70339769
never in modern history, had some earlier but even those were more experienced then Trump is right now.

>>70339730
ISIS seem to have Americans quite scared, it's somewhat understandable that some (and in this case, the majority) will abandon higher ideals for their more immediate concerns.

>>70333649
Yes, and good riddance.

>>70339893
yes and isis will stop trying to attack the USA if they retreat from the world...

>>70333710
>Pax Americana is finished.
Exactly my thoughts. Hopefully he will also crash TTIP too

>>70339930
That's what some seem to believe, as silly as it may sound.

>>70339843
>US is as third world
How is being populist third world?

>>70339967
they'll be proven wrong, sadly.

i understand the feeling though.

>>70339964
I can't but hope europe will try to stop being a USA vassal..

i can dream..

>>70339877
Andrew Jackson was a genuine populist though.

Meanwhile, Trump's cabinet contains people like Tillerson, DeVos and Mnuchin.

>>70335773
One can dream,

>>70339964
TTIP was dead even before Trump.

>>70340087
he was a senator, he was a military man...etc

read only his inaugural speech, he was not a ''negative populists'' as Trump is.

>>70340209
There are different kinds of populism.

Trump's populism is about scapegoating minorities.

>>70340193
We'll it hasn't formally failed yet

When USA had the high ground why did it accept such bad trade deals ?

>>70339730
you'll never be friends with Russia anyway.

Bush tried to be with his ''i saw a soul in his eyes''
Obama was so ready to ''restart'' that he completely threw Georgia under the buss in 2009

2 superpowers can't be friends.

the only one who was actually friends with Russia was Clinton, but that was because Russia under Yeltsin collapsed and couldn't stand against the USA, so he accepted American domination.

Putin doesn't and the only way for him to ''rise'' back again is at Americas expense

>>70337110
And then when they fuck you without lube in the ass, you won't get to blame the US like always

Gonna be so fun seeing how our "allies" react to having to fend for themselves

>>70340295
They weren't bad for corporations, just normal people

>>70340408
it's because of your allies that you are the superpower of this world.

>>70340452
It's actually due to our GDP output and massive amounts of intellectual capital, but I suppose they play a small part.

Not like being the sole superpower has benefited us all that much. We were doing fine before we got involved in world politics

>>70333710
>Pax Americana is finished.
Just because America stops looking out for Yuropoors and island chinks doesn't mean they're not calling the shots on the planet. They still have a military as large as that of the next ten militaries combined, and they have both the largest and second largest airforce (US airforce and US navy respectively). Pax Americana won't go away until China seriously tries to challenge it, which will take a few decades.

>>70340517
Come on man, we've definitely had some form of divine intervention to get where we are today.

One anon wrote a fantastic post about it and all the crazy wealth we've found on this continent

>>70340701
what we should look at is Chinas FTA in the area

if they could get it done then those countries would produce around 28% of the worlds GDP, this is without the SA countries Mexico and Canada.

While NAFTA produces around 26-27%

Also the USA army is wortless if there isn't a will to actually use it.

>>70335773
>>70335834
They're already thinking aloud how China may take the place of the US in TPP.

>>70340863
Cool, they get to be cucked by Chinese companies and corporations and we don't get our labor unions undermined even more. Sounds ideal

>>70333710
The TPP would have fucked up our copyright legal system even more than it already is. Not to mention it would have meant yet more jobs leaving us.

It was the smart move to make. Hopefully we can negotiate a different trade deal between our pacific allies.

>>70337110
this

>>70340863
i'm curious about Canadas

They just got a very anti-Russia foreign minister. Who can't even enter Russia btw.

Also they changed the ambasador to China to a Vancouver guy married to a chinese, who comes from a chinese majority area of the city and speaks Mandarin.

Not to mention the FTA with the EU.

I could see Trudeau, trying to make Canada a bit less dependent on the USA.

>>70340825
I know it's very difficult to understand from a European perspective, but there's a big difference between a trade treaty and a country.

Also, with America out, all the countries that fear China's influence (most notably Japan and South Korea and Taiwan) are most likely out as well. Those three are already a significant loss, leaving China behind with only the already pro-Chinese countries of South-East Asia and maybe (though highly unlikely) Latin America. And something tells me that if forced to choose, Latin America will choose the USA over China.

As for Canada, don't make me laugh. 80% of their trade is with America, are they really going to risk that for that other 20%?

Chances are that with America out, TTP isn't going to continue at all.

>>70340943
this one took 15 years, they won't go for another 15 year long negotiating.

Not if China promises something quicker.

>>70333649

It's gonna be picked up by China to make lotsa moneys and business along with all the other Pacific partners, and Make America Manufacture Transistors Again and sell them to themselves. Or to Canadians. Because cut out of the loop and locked out of most relevant international markets.

>>70340295
NAFTA basically benefited everyone in the US besides people in manufacturing because it lowered the cost of most products.

The biggest problem with it is that nobody in the government properly warned or put in place a transition plan for factory workers in the Midwest and just left them out to dry.

The initial idea behind TPP is good. It's main goal was to squeeze out China in trade in the pacific. The problem with it is the deal was loaded with all sorts of absolutely bullshit power leases to corporations, instead of just reasonable incentives. I still want a new TPP deal with the same goal of marginalizing China, but without provisions like the right for Corporations to sue countries willy nilly for simply suspecting intellectual theft.

>>70340990
That's basically impossible without dismantling Albertas oil sands, which would tank Canada's GDP

>>70341079
iirc there was also backlash in many of the other TPP countries who didn't wish to have US copyright imposed on them.

You're telling me that China, a place who's media merchandise market exists because of lax copyright laws will just jump on board with all of this without trying to change things?

>>70341278
our GDP hit the shitter as soon as we decided that relying on oil exports like some sandnigger country would be a good economic idea.

>>70341197
>The biggest problem with it is that nobody in the government properly warned or put in place a transition plan for factory workers in the Midwest and just left them out to dry

this is never stressed enough. Manufacturing jobs are dying anyway, local governments should try and reform, educate...etc The days when you worked all your life in the same factory is gone. Without TPP they simply delayed the inevitable.

> Corporations to sue countries

Any corporation, yours included, could have sued if they were discriminated against unfairly.

to ensure a true FTA something like this is needed.

>I still want a new TPP deal with the same goal of marginalizing China,

perhaps in the next 20 years then. but i doubt it.

>>70340825
>>70340701
Not to mention China has basically lost every single war in its incredibly long history that wasn't vs itself.

China has looked strong as fuck multiple times throughout history, but they always collapse when they actually have to demonstrate their ability to be a superpower.

>>70333710
Not until they kill NATO I think (which the madman Trump might actually do)

>>70341288
many developing countries had clauses, that made those laws softer for them, as not to restrict them.

There was little protests of the TPP outside the USA, Canada and Australia.

only the leftists being against it, in the last 2 countries.s

>>70341434
I wouldn't call historical tendencies a valid argument. Remember when the Germans thought WW1 would be a walk in the park due to France's atrocious performance in the Franco-Prussian war, and this mistake spelled their doom? And how based on this they overestimated France in 1940?

>>70341501
I remember some backlash in Japan too, and usually from the right who wished to avoid any sort of interference by US policy making.

The countries that stood to benefit from this were large populated ones such as Indonesia and the Flippies. The rest were likely to lose industry jobs in the process.

>>70341434
when they were a medial kingdom perhaps.....

they fought 1 war since WW2, against India and they won easy.

Don't underestimate China, it would be a mistake. Their military is extremely strong, and they have huge manpower.

Also the government is no longer hardcore communists, they are a simple dictatorship with a huge dose of nationalism thrown in there.

also there's a new government every 10 years, this reduces preasure from within.

>>70341606
Larger countries will bleed industry no matter what.

American manufacturing boomed because it was the only one left after WW2, and everyone bought from them.

It's not the same anymore.

you need some serious reform in your economy,

especially in areas such as the rust belt.

>>70340517
Alliances are more important. Just think Germany under Bismarck. It's all alliances, alliances, alliances. All his political work revolves around them. And the result was Germany's phenomenal rise. After him idiots thought, because they were so strong, they could do it all alone and that alliances don't matter that much. They squandered them and ran blindly into WW1. The rest is history.

>>70341433
This

I don't know how would Trump stop automatization

If he did that, then America would simply fall behind the rest of the world

>>70333710
>Pax Americana is finished.
I hope not

>>70341716
We're too large of a country to rely on white collar like Europe does. There is too large a portion of the population that is classified as unskilled workers, and schooling is too expensive to shift to skilled labor like Europe has, nor are there any good historical trends to suggest that such a shift would be sustainable in the long run.

>>70341792
well in theory they could do this

>no more importing
>producing at home

this would create millions of manufacturing jobs, but mess up the economy massively.

>>70340701

It's directly dependant on their position as main international trading country and main finantial guarantor and provider.

Remove the dollar from the position of de facto international currency, especially in relation to commodities, and the leverage provided by US or US led financial institutions from the equation, and they will have to fund the maintanance of all those carriers, subs and shit with charity donations from the miliboo lads in Montana.

>>70341855
Autarky never worked in the long run.

Japan, China or Spain...

>>70341855
>>no more importing
This isnt even feasible in america

>>70340990
So instead of the US getting a foothold on China's doorstep, China may get one on America's. "Brilliant" foreign policy move...

>>70341891
Hell, just look at North Korea

>>70341792
Also automatization wouldn't kill many jobs if the education system would be improved to produce higher skilled workers.

but we know how the education system is there.

>There is too large a portion of the population that is classified as unskilled workers

then you first task would be to reform the education system, to try and lower the numbers in the long-run.

>>70341385
honestly that was your biggest mistake.

san oil dependent economy brings quick prosperity, but it's hell in the long run

>>70341925
The thing that makes the US a valuable trading partner doesn't hold as true for China.

You're forgetting about the fact that the US is the largest consumer market by a long shot. You need someone to buy all the goods.

>>70341511
>>70341635
I definitely don't take China lightly and assume history can't change, but East Asia has always had a problem standing together long enough to make a run at imperial conquest outside their own continent, and it's still true today. Asians have a tendency to hate each other too much to look further than their neighbors.

The US has done a phenomenal job bringing in countries all over the globe under their sphere of influence, while China has struggled to even bring bordering countries in to their power circle. They couldn't even form ties with Vietnam despite us having just fought a war with them a few decades ago.

The US has Japan, SK, Taiwan, and Vietnam all under its dominion, while China's best ally in the area is an impoverished North Korea run by a crazy man child dictator. China certainly has the economic and military power, but their diplomatic game sucks.

>>70341716
>you need some serious reform in your economy,
>especially in areas such as the rust belt.
That's what Trump is doing (or at least trying) and that's why the Rust Belt is what landed him in the White House. He's bringing American business back to America and wants to focus on export rather than import as well as boost domestic sales and increase job opportunities. Perhaps I can't play 4D chess and all of this is going to blow up in his face, but for now it sounds like a really good plan.

>>70341877
Hence America's many foreign interventions. They're very, very serious about protecting the petrodollar and that's not going to change just because they don't import Chinese goods tariff-free.

>>70341385
To be fair, you rely on your oil for your internal integrity as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw5LjZ3Q7j4
Like this guy says, Canada is basically the Federal Government using Alberta's oil to pay Quebec to not leave. If Alberta were to join America (which would favor it incredibly in economic terms), the Fed would lose its last means of pressure on Quebec. That would mean Canada would lose two provinces and the East, Middle and West are no longer connected, meaning they might split up as well and you end up with four or five countries (depending on whether or not BC joins America too).

You need to be oil jews to survive.

>>70342020
Apple, to give an example, sells more in China then the USA.

Chinas economy is changing, into a consumer one, sure right now it isn't at the USA lvl, but in 5 year? 10?

it will get there and beyond.


Funny enough, with the loss of huge amount of manufacturing jobs loss, i mean cities with milions of people becoming ghost towns, a Trump like guy campaigning on a ''Bring back our jobs'' could do well in China, if the country was a democracy that is.

>>70341032
>And something tells me that if forced to choose, Latin America will choose the USA over China.
Why would LatAm choose the US over Chine when China is our biggest trade partner by a long shot?

>>70333649
What's TPP again? Can someone explain?

>>70341032
We already chose China senpai, USA hates us and our products and before Trump.

>>70335743
>force secret laws the countries
>like for 5 years of prison for using piratebay
>the state could be demanded if the companies didnt get as much money as they think they would get
wow, what a great deal, fucking trump

>>70342236
because he dreams,

he says america will focus on export, but LA needs to export their goods not masive imports.

>>70342127
those firms will never be as productive as they once were.

the people won't be satisfied with shitty salaries.

You can find such cheap labor that even if Trump puts on tarrifs it will still be easier to build in Bangladesh or Myanmar then to build in Ohio or Michigan.

>>70342370
your other points are commpletely valid, but no government, besides a hippie leftist one will protect pirating

>the state could be demanded if the companies didnt get as much money as they think they would get
but this one is such a foolish one, oversimplyfing the clause so much and not listening to any arguments.

>>70342284
Yeah and you forced China to not make a TLC with us.

Fuck brazilians, we had been planning this for a very long time and you just went there and ruined it.

Thank you so much.

>>70341434
They wrested a draw from you in Korea. At a time when your relative power was highest and they were still a really backwards country.

>>70342249
a kind of a agreement that forces corporations that want to export goods any of the other partner countries to obey some basic economic, intelectual property, labor and human right laws.
I'm not sure if free-trade or low taxation was part of the agreement but as far as i'm concerned it was not the main subject of the agreement.

>>70342127

US economy runs on consumption, not on production. Boosting sales is stupid when a) that's not how the american economy works and b) how the fuck are you even going to do that when you're calling protectionism in and strangling your position in the global markets?

Also, petroleum is inevitably going to become a minor energetic need as the technological change towards other sources of energy advances. If they're going to put all the eggs in that basket they've already lost.

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>>70342528
It's for your own good, they only want to exploit you.
Let your big brother handle the evil guys.

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>>70342708

>>70342236
>>70342284
Latin America is by and large neutral to both China and the USA. They stand to benefit the most by maintaining healthy relations with both. Picking a side would be bad as it'd invoke the ire of the other side.

You may trade more with China than the US, but the US isn't just the US. It's the US + friends who can agree to do sanctions and other diplomatic blacklisting.

Latin America has a pretty comfy situation to be honest. It's probably the safest place from a geopolitical standpoint.

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>>70342986
>They stand to benefit the most by maintaining healthy relations with both.
unfortunately not us

>>70342986
>US + friends
Not anymore. EU and US relations are falling apart.

>>70343151
I should have just said South America. Mexico has literal land access to the US, so we basically have to force you to have ties with us whether you like it or not.

Sorry.

>>70342020
All the more reasons for getting better access to a market with 1.4 billion consumers and a middle class bigger than the entire population of the US. They're still growing at 6+%. And their total imports already reached more than 80% of the US's.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_imports

>>70343151
Better help build that wall then ;^)

>>70343381
the wall won't be build for political reasons, the president/party that agrees to it will get destroyed in elections

>>70342986

I think we're the third international investor in Latin America after USA and China and there's no way we would even contemplate sanctions ever. Even in the case of Venezuela sanctions were never contemplated.

>>70342986
Trump doesn't want anything to do with us though, yesterday he suspended Argentina's lemon exportation.

>>70343440
To be frank I've always interpreted that wall as an economical/ social one. It meant stop the migration and lessen the business deals with Mexicans. Also part of Trump's protectionism

>>70343543
>To be frank I've always interpreted that wall as an economical/ social one.

damage control

>>70342986
There will never be any sanctions on China, they have integrated themselves into the world economy too deep.

the world economy would crumble without China.

Russias economy is complete shit, smaller then Mexicos, they can be sactioned without hurting yourself to much.

but sanctioning China would be like shooting yourself in the foot.

>>70343516
many will realize this soon.

>>70343216
It's way too early to say that. Trump has yet to even meet with EU countries yet to discuss the future.

That's like assuming the US and Russia are already becoming friends just because Trump and Putin like the cut of each other's gib.

I see a serious deterioration in the western alliance just about as likely as us actually becoming buds with Russia, which is to say, incredibly unlikely.

>>70343563
Be my guest, Greece

>>70333649
So american is less reliable than china in international agreements, who'da thunk it

>>70343543
well america could build the wall, and throw away money.

But no Mexican government would agree to pay it, they would be destroyed in the elections.

The wall is all about ''feeling'', it makes people ''feel'' safer.

it will cause huge problem in the area it's built, to actually just keep it functional will cost a fortune and it won't really slow immigration that much.

A trade deal that boosts Mexicos economy would have lowered immigration......

>>70343440

It will because there's no way Trump could backpedal on that without being utterly discredited.

It can be good for Mexico though and incentivate him to turn his back on USA economically, cultural and gepolitically

>>70343684
i have to say i agree with this, you will never truly be friends with Russia.

Only if Trump bends over and lubes his asshole to Putin could this happen.

>>70343798
i should've formulated better.

there is no way Mexico will pay for it, it is political suicide.

>It can be good for Mexico though and incentivate him to turn his back on USA economically, cultural and gepolitically

complettely and fully agree.

>>70334777
TPP would have secured US' and therefore NATO's interests in Asia. TTIP was about completing the americanization of Europe. TPP is good, TTIP is bad.

>>70343684
He's already called NATO obsolete.

>>70343949
Fully agreed.

We need to cut the USA cord. For our own good.

these are not chains, and this cord saved us after WW2.
but now it is like a 20 year old still sucking his mother's tit

>>70342986
>It's the US + friends
Tell me which friends of the US would consider sanctions upon LatAm please. You are delusional.

>>70344198
the UK right now is pretty desperate.

May would do it if she could get something in return.

besides her, no one really.

>>70343844

Obviously Mexico won't pay.

Trump will get the funds either by taxing remmitances (the fast track and the most likely option) or by renegotiating NAFTA (the long ardous track and the very improbable option)

The remittance system could be ineffective af if the mexicans in USA mobilise and opt for alternative ways for delivering moneys though, leaving the actual remittance companies in a pretty bad shape.

>>70343801
>Only if Trump bends over and lubes his asshole to Putin could this happen.

This is a possibility though.

>>70333710
This. Hopefully ttip and tisa are also pulled out from. Hell even nafta.

>>70344328
Obama did this in 2009, even abandoning Georgia to Russia. He woke up at last and saw the truth, sadly to late.

Think Trump will keep giving in?

Thoughts on rcep? I'm surprised Japan is in it considering they kept out of the aiib

How about this Dakota pipeline?

think Trump wills go on with it?

>>70344471
Worse then TPP.

Could be improved if China gives in, they might do it to make sure the USA will lose the area on trade.

The real problem is Japan, not even SK, they'll give in soon.

Japan isn't that friendly with China. And if this RCEP is to work properly China needs to bring Japan on board.

the other partners are irrelevent.

>>70344417

Everything trump has indicated about policy with russia is that he wants to let them reestablish themselves as a world power. Whether he wants them to do that so that they can start doing the actual work of stabalizing the middle east or if he just hasn't actually thought about it that much is up for debate.

But who the fuck knows.

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Regular Japanese, South Koreans, and Australians hate TPP as well

America is entering a new golden age where we are leaving the EU to the wolves while strengthening ties with the rest of the Anglosphere, JP/SK. and Russia

China can't do shit if we are best friends with everyone surrounding them

Trump is playing 5d chess

>>70344480
He supports it along with keystone xl

>>70344715
Japaneses really are a pathetic people.

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>>70342196
>Funny enough, with the loss of huge amount of manufacturing jobs loss, i mean cities with milions of people becoming ghost town

eh, their gubment isnt pushing for higher education for nothing

>>70344715
>China can't do shit if we are best friends with everyone surrounding them
Not even a tpp fan but that's literally what too was designed to do by bringing sea into our IP laws.

>>70344715
>delusion:the post

>>70344480

>think Trump wills go on with it?

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/24/politics/trump-keystone-xl-dakota-access-pipelines-executive-actions/index.html

Here is some bad new buddy, just approved a few moments ago

>>70344790
Are you aware that our countrymen also made something similar aren't you?

>>70344578

Japan is the past, not the future.

They have much more to lose from staying out of the China-led Asia-Pacific than from being in it and getting to participate in shaping it.

>>70344882
>our countrymen
Paulistas*, that's what you meant.

>>70344844
*tpp

>>70344715
This much delusion. Not unusual from a trump supporter tho.

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>mfw china looks to europe
>mfw han-roman alliance will wipe out the barbarians once again

t.approves of american being CHICANO'd

>>70344871
lol, that was quick

how's the feeling in Vietnam about this? Can't think people would be happy at the prospect of more dependence on china?

>>70344911
Agreed, they might sacrifice pride for economic growth.

>>70344920
is your current government retarded enough to provoke China?

>>70344924
thanks for including us!

>>70333649
thank doG, my jap porn booklets were threatened by it

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What a weird timeline we live in where this is the New World Order

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>>70345002
everything ex-roman empire is the base of latins, so it's a no brainer i guess

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>>70344790
What's pathetic about honoring your friends?

>>70345053
Australia and NZ depend on Chinese trade.

they'll go full '''neutral'' soon, as not to threaten that trade.

>>70344934
Pretty doom and gloom i'm afraid. People was praising TPP as the 4th industrialization, this suppose to help us counter the influence from China and even the gov shill this deal to no end and people was pretty hype.

Now ? pretty confusing, on one hand Trump scrap TPP can make China even more expansion even more aggressive, But on other hand Trump promise to fight China head on, so i have to say there is a feeling of uncertainty and caution right now

>>70345190
I do understand the long struggle Vietnam had with China, but in the long term isn't more profitable to work along with the Chinese instead of a unreliable ally half world away?

>>70345002
Eh, not really. Our current presidential is relatively pragmatic but the ruling party hasn't being very warm with China from the start. Question for European like you. Why are you guys always only China and US when discussing about world leading superpower? What happens to EU in all of this situation? Doesn't EU have the biggest economy and some of the member States have relatively strong army?(France Italy...etc)

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>>70345122
in their current form they are pretty much a puppet state to you, same for SK

culturally they have nothing in common to you either, except for becoming more and more depraved by the day

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>>70345298
imho there has to be balancing, china has to court vietnam without claiming all of vietnam's islands.

It does'nt help vietnam is quite reliant on fishing as an industry to help feed their country

If china wants the SCS it must share it responsibly

>>70345318
Eu isn't united and has no common foreign policy.
It only acts together in trade matters.

>>70343516
>yesterday he suspended Argentina's lemon exportation
But how can a government interfere with the dealings of private people? It's not like the USA buys argie lemons, it's some company in the US that buys from another argie company. If argie lemons are cheaper and produced without dumping, nothing is going to stop them from exporting to the US. Are you sure about this lemon thing?

LOOKS LIKE NATIONALISM'S BACK ON THE MENU, BOYS

>>70345445
>But how can a government interfere with the dealings of private people?
The US could always do this indirectly, by threatening companies with policies that hurt them

>>70345318
We are ''cucked''

we are not united enough to fight the USA, China..etc

Although there is a growing sense of ''we need to get our shit together'' Trump questioning NATO,and Russian agression have boosted this a bit

but it will b hard, it's hard to get 27 countries to agree on something. And then there's the problem of western populism being very anti-EU.

Ironically eastern populists might wish to scale down the political union, but they are pretty open to more military union.

Even Orban is pushing for this for goodness sakes. Poland too. Russia scared our region quite a lot.

But it's hard to cut this USA cord, it's a ''good' one but it numbs us.

we are like a 30 year old still living with his mother.

>>70345053
I'm telling you man, we just entered bizarro world. like the what-if scenario we always imagine about, it might be a shitty world or a better one, but it wont be boring that's fo shizzle

>>70345421
Isn't both Merkel and future France president Fillion all agree to have a more United EU TO counter US China and Russia? I thought that's the outlook and ultimate goal of EU all along. So you think this ambition will likely fail in the future?

Does that mean we'll have two new members on our *friendship circle?

*mercosul

>>70333649
>>70333710

America was a mistake

European civilisation could have gone with more style than with this last and poorly bright offspring.

RIP

>>70345618
kek no

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>>70345618
Yes. Cailing Chiili nao.

>>70345604
the euro will decide the faith of the EU.

will reach a point were we need to decide, do we add a fiscal union to help the poorer countries from collapsing in the case of a crisis
or
do we abandon the euro

both steps will be irreversible.

until then the EU is in a limbo

>>70345644
De Gaulle was right.

>>70345604
Hopefully it succeeds. With the mouthpiece of the US leaving they should have a stronger, albeit smaller, block.

>>70333710
About time.

>>70345298
>the long struggle Vietnam had with China

The people who love China are mostly government official and their children, since they are pretty nostalgic about friendship with China during the war with US and French and i think you can guess whose pockets large potion of Chinese investment fund go to. People who hate China are mostly common people who get scrap during the North Korea like living standard before the fall of Soviet Union and see friendship partnership with the West bring prosperity and equality, that's why most propaganda made by the ruling party seem to be more and more ineffective, cause free flow of information, before you can only know and see what the party allow you to see. Kinda like realize all everything in your life was a lie, so they kinda piss.

We kinda like Cuba in some way

>>70345663

Shhh.... shhh... just come, just embrace it.

>>70345711
When do you think the leaders of EU member States will have to face this boiling point and a history making timings? Ideally I want a multipolars world with western ideologies still hold up in civilised societies.

>>70345827
any chance of unrest, revolution...etc?

>>70345604
Merkel isn't super pro integration, she's mostly trying to keep the thing together.
Fillion, if elected, will seek a less centralized eu, at least he says so. He's willing to work with Russia.
Macron who is another candidate, he's more of the Eu fanboy.
Le pen is the third candidate, she's basically trump except less retarded in some ways.
Eu lacks a foreign policy of it's own because we've followed the burgers for too long.

>>70345877
when another economic crisis hits.

i say within 5-10 years.

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>>70345531
it will work like pic related

>>70345922
>Eu lacks a foreign policy of it's own because we've followed the burgers for too long.

100 times, i can't stress it enough.

>>70345827
I know one mainlander who told me in a rather angry tone that the Vietnam gov has being "stealing" the oil in South Sea and needed to be sorted out. KeK.

>>70338097
And you think that's going away with Trump? His protectionism and right to work shit is incompatible.

>>70340935
You are aware republicans won't be helping your unions in anyway shape or form when it comes to lawmaking.

>>70342986
LatAm is wisely tilting to China now that Chump is showing he wants to fuck them over. He already started with Argentina.

>>70345922
>>70345925
Well, if eu leaders are serious about a very unified Europe even to the point of United States of Europe, they will have to prepare for extremely difficult task that is ten times higher than west and east Germany reunited. Not even S/N Korea reunification is this hard, at least they are same ethnicity and share the same language.

>>70343798
Think about the incredible disruption to local ecosystem it would cause!

>>70345880
Hahahahaha... no, those things are illegal here my man our constitution forbid any protest or different ideology the Communist party is THE only one party, we ironically called our current regime Red Capitalist, in term of economy and social we follow the Capitalist way but when it come to politic it's pure Communism 1 party, they make the constitution, they make the laws, they have total power. You can say our political system is a carbon copy of The Chinese that's why they still cozy up with China so much, they support TPP because they love those sweet sweet investment dough more

>>70333649
TPP is dead-- doesn't mean America is out of SEA though. DJT is going to take a much more aggressive, military posture to force its policy over Asia now.

I wonder if those UN arbitration guys have any regrets. They must have thought Obama/Clinton neoliberalism was going to last forever.

>>70346251
you didn't understand, i meant is there any chance of a revolution?

revolutions are not allowed of course, neither was ours in 89...

>>70345999
how much oil does china need jfc

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>>70345999
Well was not wrong :^)))))

>>70346290
But Hillary is the one who wanted war right?

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>>70346394
desu if china can claim scs they could claim you as a tributary state

>>70346383
their growing like hell, they need to keep feeding the machine.

>>70346437
With Russia-- She wanted to continue the "smart power" struggle that was Obama's pivot to Asia. Pass TPP, make various military agreements to install bases and missile defense platforms in SEA countries, and generally suffocate China.

Trump wanted rapproachment with Russia, but on the other hand wants war with Iran and China. It just that saying "let's not go to war with Iran or China" was less popular with the American populace.

>>70346363
Nah m8, most people afraid that the moment the Communist government fell the Chinese gonna steamroll us, They can't let an unfriendly regime right under their ass right ? And democracy still pretty new to people here, we kinda like the Russian, most of our history we never experienced true democracy + with constant propaganda so when some one say "democracy or freedom" people will instantly pin him or her as a conspirator or Western spy trying to destabilize the country stability. So it's kinda complicated cause it's mind set kind of thing, and i don't think it will change anytime soon, not to mention the whole Brexit and Trump reinforce the idea of Multiple party, multiple ideas = chaos and instability among the people even more

>>70346394
This is no joke what the Trump admins stance is about-- the American company making deals with Vietnam to drill the oil in those disputed waters is none other than Exxon Mobile, the CEO of Exxon Mobile is Tillerson, Tillerson is now the United States Secretary of State in charge of foreign policy.

>>70346608
Yeah bullshit. Trump supporters sold him as the peace candidate not the war with Iran and China candidate. I guess every administration has its braindead apologists.

>>70346728
Trump spoutes so much contradiction and nonsense that his supporters were able to cherry pick what they like and say the rest are just ''jokes''.

that's why you'll find many trump supporters, not on 4chan of course but it's starting apear here as well, who disagree on what trumps policy really is.

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could we get Russia to join in on our bullying of China?

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>>70345445
>Are you sure about this lemon thing?
100%

>>70345999
Isn't the Taiwan govt in agreement what the PRC about the spratly islands fairly firm in asserting their claims? Iirc the PRC is continuing a claim it had made from when it was still the ROC. I know taiwan participated in building some airstrip on taiping island (now taiping rock lel). It's one of the reasons the U.S. likes to maintain its ambiguous attitude towards you. When you build an airstrip in the SCS you are China, when China sails a carrier through the Taiwan strait you are Taiwan.

>>70346728
That's just election politics-- Russia and Syria were just the most contentious issues of the day. They knew he was going to tear up the Iran deal because he talked about it all the time. The problem is that, actually, they're extremely arrogant jingoists and they actually do want to bomb Iran (and China)

>>70344715
I really like this American kind of sarcasm

>>70346950
How is the current argie admin going to spin this as a good thing?

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>>70345318

We Europeans... calculate.

I mean, we been there and done that. For so long and so many times that we've sort of transcended the game.

So we take a seat and, with a condescendent look in our face, contemplate all these enthusiastic, confident new players, the murricans, chinks,macacos, russkis, nip, poos, gooks, indonesians etc talk the words and make the moves we've already transcended.

There should be a europepe_elemental.jpg for moments like this desu.

>>70347001
We are never Taiwan on international stage. It has always been ROC. Self claimed the true China...LOL. Unironically in our constitution we don't consider Taiwan the island as a independent state rather the current location of "legit" government of China which, hilariously, includes both South sea and the already independent Mongolia.

It's pretty simple. Russia is Europe's problem, we shouldn't be spending resources on them. China is our problem, clearly. So we focus on containing China and maintaining our supremacy.

>>70347114
Well I hope you realize you've just voted yourself into another bush jr. term with even more political uncertainty. I guess Trump isolationism is just imperialism with blue collar scraps.

>>70347272

Are you implying that Obama was anything other than the worst foreign policy disaster for the rest of the world in 30 years?

I mean, the middle east was left in an unprecedented state of total chaos, flooding Europe, China started moving on its neighbors, as did Russia, and Iran got a sweetheart deal for nothing.

>>70347268
what?

How does this work with leaving tpp

>>70347188
I thought Europe starts at the Pyrenees... That's what the "White" Europeans always told me.

>>70347342
Looks like Trump wants to finish the job by destabilizing Iran.

>>70347272
I really wonder how the international community is going to react when Tillerson starts to use US warships to blockade China's access to its own bases. They've handed the U.S. an undisputed and irreversible caucus belli that would challenge the legitimacy of the UN if they ignored. Really stupid.

>>70347484
Iran will go nuts

And Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Behrain will go as well

Chile decided to bail out too now that the US is gone so it's ok.

>>70347342
Bush is the one that broke the Middle East and created the current myriad crisis mate.

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>>70347532
>caucus belli

>>70347703
>american education

>>70347655
The terms of the agreement say it cannot pass unless countries that make up at least 85% of the GDP of all invited countries sign or something like that. The US alone makes up 40%. Without the U.S. it's unsalvageable.

>>70347703
>>70347790
Hey man I'm phone posting gimme a break

>>70345857
The worst thing is that Lula probably said it just like that to Bachelet on her first presidency

>>70347354

>Stares condescendently at chiang kai-cuck's island monkey chinks and calculates the odds of Formosa reunificating with the Motherland.

>>70347993
40% i'll give it

>>70346950
Let's see how long he can keep on with that protectionism bullshit. I feel sorry for argies desu. Burgers did the same with our grapes (only that it was worst, because they """"found"""" some poison in one grape) years ago, but it is unsustainable in the long wrong. If you have a cheaper and better product, no government can stop it from entering a market

>>70348218
I warn you burgers: don't ever eat any Chilean food.
I know a guy that got those brain-eating worms from eating pork in Chile.

>>70348218
>>70346950
>>70343516
Why?
Was a reason given?

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>>70345471
what could possibly go wrong

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PAX AMERICANA IS OVER POST PICS OF NUCLEAR EXPLOSIONS

>>70346858
No, they're goin to fully suck China's dick in their own pivot to Asia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJMi3PG9kpc