do americans really think they didn't lose the Vietnam War?

You should ask this question on /k/
You'd be amazed at the amount of denial.

>>69291016
No we lost both strategically, and militarily.
But it's what you get when you draft poorly disciplined assholes, and leave military command to a bunch of idiots who think it's just going to be korea 2.0.
>Hurr durr let's bomb the area we're about to land, and let all the viet cong know where we are going to be hurr durr.

>>69291390
You could make the claim that clapistan didn't lose militarily.

>But America’s fighting forces did not fail us. ‘You know, you never beat us on the battlefield,’ I told my North Vietnamese counterpart during negotiations in Hanoi a week before the fall of Saigon. He pondered that remark a moment and then replied, ‘That may be so, but it is also irrelevant.’
>-LTG Frederick Weyand

Thing is, with war being the extension of politics, it really doesn't matter if you beat the opponent militarily, you also have to succeed in the political goal.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Well look at Vietnam now and look at the US now and tell me America didn't won

>>69291016
There is literally a McDonald's restaurant in Ho Chi Minh city.

We won.

>>69292009
By that logic Germany won WWII and Soviet Union lost.
It doesn't work that way. According to Clausewitz war is an act of violence to compel the enemy to fulfil one's will.
So the key metric of winning or losing a war is whether you achieve your war aims. The aim of the US in the Vietnam war was to prevent Communism from taking over Vietnam, which they didn't achieve. The aim of their opponents was to win independence by any means possible which they did. Hence, US lost, Vietnam won.

Withdrawing/retreating = defeat

The chinks also got their asses handed to them in Vietnam starting in 1979. In Chinese, the name of the Sino-Vietnamese war translates to "self-defense counterattack war", so the chinks are easily as deluded about the Vietnam war as the average American is.

Vietnam: 2, US/China: 0

>>69292076
>The aim of the US in the Vietnam war was to prevent Communism from taking over Vietnam

That's where you're wrong, pal.

>>69292227
enlighten me

>>69292317
The goal was to kill as many gommies as possible

>>69291016
it was never declared, therefore it wasn't a war therefore we didn't lose. Simple.

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>>69292338
Oh, I thought you were interested in serious discussion. My bad.
Here, have a cute picture.

forced the paris peace accords which were then ignored by commies

and KGB agents started the hippie movement which led to public turning on the war

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Most Americans think that we lost the Vietnam war. The only people who talk about "victory" are very old hippies who dodged the draft and protested against the war.

Ironically, it's fortunate for the US that we lost the war. Winning would have scarred China (just like US troops in South Korea scare China) and they would have drawn closer to the Soviet Union. Losing South Vietnam to the communists made US rapprochement with China a political possibility. This helped our larger goal of combating the Soviet Union a lot more than saving South Vietnam would have.

Sometimes I think that the US has achieved more from dumb luck than from planned strategic victories. 50 years from now, we'll look at the instability we helped cause in the Middle East as having been, accidentally, a major boon to US strategical interests.

>>69292076
... But it's fact that Soviet and German both lost that war. Only winer was the USA.

>>69294721
No. The Soviet Union did win WWII. The Soviet Union achieved its aim of driving out the invaders and much more, considering the territorial gains and the political influence it established over Eastern Europe. This victory did come at a great cost, no doubt. But it wasn't a Phyrric victory. The reasons for the Soviet Union's subsequent decline have much much more to do with economics and bad politics and leadership than with the results of the war.
You are right, however, that the USA was the spectacular winner of WWII, as their homeland was unscathed, the human cost not that high, their industries intact and the competition of those in rubble and ruins.

>>69294721
In a nutshell: you won the war and lost the peace. We lost the war and won the peace.

>>69294390
>if you beat us, we win
hello Justin

Most Americans look at Vietnam as a failure and a national embarassment. Not just for the fact that we were tricked by the eternal frog into entering the conflict, but also for the poor treatment many of the veterans returning home from the war received. It completely altered American consciousness towards 'the troops' and is the reason why we're so behind our soldiers even if a particular war is a bad thing.