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Mulitilingualism

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Why are Europeans against the domination of English? Englis is a beautiful rich language. The most logical language ever emerged.
However, it seems like Europeans would rather support Esperanto over something as useful as English.
Most Europeans already speak American English anyway, embrace it. Due not give in into Jewish languages. Even Turkish is more European than Esperanto.
>>
>the most logical language ever emerged

???
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>>69258781
Science and technology has progressed because of English.
>>
>>69258811
???
>>
>>69258811
Your point is invalid and dumb essperanto was designed to be intuitive and easy to learn.
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>>69256672
Quality thread.
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>>69258811
>What is German
>>
>>69260313
>Danes defending us
Y-you too
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>>69260313
Refugee accepting nation at the verge of collapse.
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>>69256672
>English
>The most logical language ever emerged
>>
>>69260670
>russian
>european
>logical
kek

Besides retarded grammar, Russian has soft and hard sounds of the same sound. Needlessly complicated. No wonder Russian never spread in the Soviet Union. Tajikistan, Kazachstan, and Estonia never learned Russian. (besides the forced slavic Soviet Colonists)
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>>69260853
>No wonder Russian never spread in the Soviet Union. Tajikistan, Kazachstan, and Estonia never learned Russian
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>>69256672
> it seems like Europeans would rather support Esperanto
L.O.L. no
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>>69261106
lol vlad
>>
>>69256672
>Most Europeans already speak American Englis
no
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>>69261914
Went to Berlin, Krakow, and Prague last summer. Most people spoke perfectly understandable English.
And this is not including all the backpackers from all over the world I met on my journey.
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>>69256672
because average native english speakers are as dumb as your post
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>>69256672
Europeans would rather bicker than let one of the rest of them get above the others.

If French was in the ascendent, you can bet your ass I'd be deriding it all the time and fighting to try and make it irrelevant too, and most of my country would join in.

Yanks will never understand this.
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>>69262141
Yet here we are, speaking English and not French or Esperanto.
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>>69259329

Esperanto is intuitive and easy to learn only to the native speakers of romance and germanic languages.
>>
>>69256672
>Most Europeans already speak American English

That's true only for Western and Northern European countries.

>>69260853
>whataboutyou

Nice try, but the thread is about English language, not Russian.
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>>69262363
http://ek-masi.weebly.com/
Simple google search, dumb Slavs are also trying to push this anti-American Zionist bullshit.
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>>69256672
>Englis is a beautiful rich language. The most logical language ever emerged.

There's no way anyone believes that

Mandarin lingua franca when?
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>>69262662
Be careful what you wish for. The only reason why Swedish is relevant is because you speak a mongrel Icelandic/Old Norse dialect which is similar to English. If it wasn't for our similarities, Swedes wouldn't be able to learn the lingua franca as easily.

If Mandarin becomes the lingua franca, America is too big to ignore. But Sweden? lol
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>>69262873

Swedish is relevant? Since when?

Too big to ignore.. for what?
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>>69262961
Sweden is doing business with Americans through Spotify and other tech/scientific industries.
If Swedes spoke a retarded language like Russian or Turkish, no one would understand you and you wouldn't be able to learn proper English.
English and Swedish are grammatically similar, and of course some similar vocabulary..
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>>69256672
>>69258811
what the fuck are you talking about ?
First, esperanto is a meme
Second, we don't want english to be international because everyone wants to have their language international. France, Spain, Germany, Portugal, Italy, etc.

I personnaly don't really care about english being the first language. I would have loved if it was the french language but oh well can't have everything in life. I take solace in thinking that about 45% of english words comes from french.
Also english is really easy to learn so in some way it's better for everyone than if it was french i guess...
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>>69263055

You realize translators exist, right? In the past other languages have been the lingua franca and people learned them at the time, if mandarin becomes the lingua franca the same will happen again

School curriculum would change from English to Mandarin eventually
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>>69262192
We're not doing this here tho. Just trying to not let your language spreading our own country.
Why do guys hate us so much ?
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>>69263214
>Also english is really easy to learn so in some way it's better for everyone than if it was french i guess...
That's all you have to admit. English is the easiest and most logical language. French and all these little European languages have the right to exist, but in their own patches of dirt. Not in the international arena.
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>>69263300
Yet every country in the world that is doing well in the world speaks either English or a language closely related to English.
Being able to speak a language related to the lingua franca has an advantage.
It's like claiming that Cantonese speakers and Finns both equally can learn to speak Mandarin.
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>>69263377
>most logical language
>>69263447
>Yet every country in the world that is doing well in the world speaks either English or a language closely related to English.

Please prove proof for both of these statements
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>>69264411
Look, English has the richest vocabulary and scientific output in human history. Slovakia is some Slavic outpost known for being a less interesting version of The Czech Republic.
English is the lingua franca, deal with it.
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>>69265583
You couldn't be more pathetic, replying with a stale old meme, but I suppose I shouldn't expect better from someone who lives in real life Idiocracy.
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>>69262246
of course you need to dumb is down for the mass
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>>69266047
You do realize that you're calling French a dumb language too. French was the previous lingua franca. And before that, it was Latin.
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>>69256672
No language can be logical if their grammar isn't.
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>>69266177
English is logical enough. Is there a language more logical and elegant than English? English is an improvement of both Germanic and Latin influences. We are the pinnacle of supreme human expression.
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I hate American. It's destroying our culture. When will /int/ switch to another language - French, German, Russian - good candidates.
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>>69265583
The language itself doesn't have a scientific output lad.

>>69266168
>And before that, it was Latin.

'no'
It's not nearly as simple as that.
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>>69266267
>inconsistent spelling where the same phoneme changes it's written form from word to word
>"logical"
>"elegant"
>>
English is such a lovely language. Let me show you how ingenious it truly is.

Take any simple, one-two syllable (English) word. Any. Drop it into any online dictionary to find its etymology. It will most certainly be of Germanic roots.
Take any (more) complex English word. Drop it into any online dictionary for etymology. It will most certainly be of French roots

All sophisticated and refined action in English is depicted using French, and all down-in-the-dirt simplicity is depicted through Old English/Germanic descendants
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>>69256672
When a language ceases to be spoken it dies and when it dies it is centuries of literrature and music dying with it, it's a way of expressing yourself and a vision of the world disappearing forever.


>>69263377
Logical =/= simple
Complexity in language isn't illogical, it brings a layer of precision, language plays a huge part in the way of people think, just look at germans and the concept they come with like the Erklärungsnot, Waldeinsamkeit or Schadenfreude (there are others more philosophical like the Zetigeist for example).
Same thing with french, we have le "tu" et le "vous", the first one is the familiar "you", the other is the respectful "you" , it has a deep impact on the psychology of our interaction in everyday life and it influences our way to think: say "tu" to someone you begin to know and it will instantly make your relation more intimate, say "tu" to someone you just met and they will take that as a lack of respect.

>>69262192
>Yanks will never understand this.
They understood it very well during the last century when WASP eradicated german and french language from their populations (just like french republicans did with the "patois" here), the burger just doesn't understand that he could have been bilingual from birth (and so have direct and easy access to an entire cultural landscape and production easily).
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>>69267014
Keep your pseudoscience to yourself, Pierre.
Linguistic relativity has been proven to be false. The language you speak doesn't change how you view the world. English spread because it is easier, more logical, and more beautiful, not because it changes your world view.
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>>69267112
Disproven by who ? You ?
Also we won't drop our language for you burger, now choke on my baguette.
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>>69267297
Only retards still believe in the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. The fact is that English evolved to the supreme language due to the supremacy of American and Anglo culture, warfare, and mindset. Our language is able to express complex ideas which inferior languages simply lack the sophistication to compete with. There's a reason why most languages borrow from English nowadays, instead of coming up with their own words.
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>>69267501
Oh I'm laffin Mr.56%, can't wait for 2050 when we will call your country "Estados Unidos de América".
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>>69267783
You just said that you can speak multiple languages. Now you can't?
There was a point when German speakers made the majority of the US population, yet we are still speaking proper American English rather than Deutsch. The Mexican Language will survive for a few more generations and then become irrelevant like all the others.
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>>69267112
>English spread because it is easier, more logical, and more beautiful, not because it changes your world view.

No, english spreads and has spread because of the political, technological and cultural dominance of the english and americans in the past 150 years, it has nothing to do with the characteristics of the language itself.
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>>69267951
That's bullshit. Some languages are just inferior when it comes to being lingua francas. The Soviet Union was a vehicle for Russian imperialism where they forced their Slav-speak on non-Slavs around the world. Yet the non-Slavs never learned Russian.
The United States never invaded a country and incorporated into our nation, yet we have Chinese and Russian folk begging for a chance to practice their English. English is clearly better for international communication than some complicated inferior Eastern European language.
>>
This fucking thread, yo.

>>69267112
>Linguistic relativity has been proven to be false
Kek

>English spread because it is easier, more logical, and more beautiful,
KEK

>>69267501
>being this unironically retarded

Guys, send help. I can't stop laughing at this retard.
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>>69267881
The germans stopped speaking german because 2 world wars happened and there was both a popular and instituionnal pressure on them to abandon their heritage and fully embrace the WASP culture, none of this will happen in your "oh so multicultural" america unless you begin to hang every liberal in the country.

Also there was a founder effect with german immigrants that isn't happening with hispanics who are settling in their own pre existant community (making incentive to learn english for immigrant even smaller than precedent generations).

In short it's too late, you will be bilingual by the middle of the century and if your country survive until 2100 your english will be heavily mongrelized just like your genepool.
Now say it with me: "En Dios Confiamos".
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>>69268606
Better Catholic and Speaking Spanish than Muslim and Speaking Arabic? Enjoy your immigrants from Africa and the Middle East.
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>>69267112
>more beautiful
french, italian russian are more beautiful than english Tbh
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>>69268102
First, let's drop the chinese in this comparison, it's obvious that the latin alphabet is superior when it comes to matter of communication.

Now, you're running around the argument that I've written. Russian was indeed a very important language in the warsaw pact and even in countries like Yugoslavia, despite political matters like the Tito-Stalin split.
Ultimately though, politically and economically, the soviet union lost and that stimmied any chance for russian to become as globally relevant as english.

I don't understand how you can ignore matters such as the prevalence of english in terms of business (the american trade, the dollar exchange, and so on and so on) and in terms of technology (the internet). These factors were incredibly important.

It's not that the europeans, russians and chinese recognise some inherent worth in the grammatical and vocabular characteristic of english, it's the fact that so much trade, science and whatnot goes through channels that are deeply impacted by UK (London) and USA.

When you look outside of that, in structures such as bilateral agreements between european countries, the EU and so on, english suddenly becomes much less important.

That all goes to show, in my opinion, that the incentive is primarly driven by economics and politics.

Of course, it's very fortuitous for the anglo sphere that these changes are happening right now, when globalisation is becoming such an important factor.
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Sorry, I don't even notice this thread, just came to say that.
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>>69268822
You missed my point. The Soviet Union literally invaded countries and were unable to convince their new citizens to learn Russian. America sprad English as you said, my our superior economy and politics. The Russians couldn't convince a bunch of Mongols to learn Russian, even after they invaded their country. Russian did not spread internally within its own borders simply because Russian is not a good lingua franca. What's more incentive to learn a language than when your new overlords speak the language? Russian was promoted heavily by the Soviet Union but even during the 70s, during the best times of the Soviet Union, barely anyone spoke Russian except the Slavs.
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>>69268678
Classic American response

>uh yeah well you're not white
>take that!
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>>69269006
Sorry Jerome. I will pray to Mecca just for you.
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>>69268678
>what was colonization

All our migrants speak french already back in their countries burgers, that's a cold comfort but at least I know my descendants won't scratch their head when they will open a book written by Victor Hugo in 2100.
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Explain why you think English is more logical than other languages
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>>69269234
Explain why you and your friends all speak English instead of Esperanto or Latin?

English is simple, logical, and clear. Verbs barely change for person, there are no useless grammatical cases, and its strict word order removes confusion.
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>>69269157
The joke is that 60%ers like yourself genuinely believe accusing others of being nonwhite. Statistically, you're almost as likely to be nonwhite than (the laughable American standard of) white.
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>>69256672
>beautiful rich language
>logical
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>>69268975
>Russian did not spread internally within its own borders simply because Russian is not a good lingua franca.
>during the best times of the Soviet Union, barely anyone spoke Russian except the Slavs.

This argument is rather feeble. Russian is still very much spoken in countries like Ukraine, the central asians stans, Mongolia and so on.
Still, it's been 27 years since the collapse of the soviet union, that's an entire new generation, things are starting to shift towards english.

>What's more incentive to learn a language than when your new overlords speak the language?
See, you say that, but slovenes (and a bunch of slavs, french, danes, italians) were under german rule for literally a thousand years yet the languages remained.


I really don't see how conquest is inherently conductive to lingual assimilation. It's much more complex than that.

And still, none of that automatically shows to some inherent linguistic worth of english.
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>>69269393
Because it's the lingua France due to Britain being very dominant during the past 200 years

If English is simple, logical and clear, explain why they have

>Mentally retarded spelling
>Irregular word stress
>Conjugation
>Articles
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>>69269589
That's bullshit, most people in Mongolia, Kazachstan, and Tajikistan do not speak Russian, except for the ethnic Slavs.

You don't have to destroy a local language to be a multilingual society. But Russian was unable to hold much grasp in those Soviet States, even after invading.
My point is that in a short time, English has spread worldwide, through peaceful capitalistic means. And that show how simple, logical, and easy to learn English is, compared to Russian or Finnish.
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>>69269393
>Esperanto
Why do you keep bringing this up? Esperanto is a meme even for Europeans.

>logical
How?
The orthography is anything but logical.

>Verbs barely change
You mean irregular verbs? We still have quite a few of them that should be regularized already.
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>>69269715
You're ignoring the ease of English conjugation. It's not perfect, but it's pretty damn close.
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>>69269761
Russian is spoken in these nations, not as the main language, but a good number speak it

Economic and power shifts determine lingua franca,although i must admit latin has been the oldest and most used in scientific fields,while chinese is the oldest most commonly used language (albeit through various mutations)
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>>69269761
Let's ignore your first sentence, since you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

And as for
>My point is that in a short time, English has spread worldwide, through peaceful capitalistic means.

See, the key point here is twofold.
First, those two words, "peaceful" and "capitalistic."

The second point is that you need to take into account the globalisation factor.
Just like how the germans couldn't do shit with lingual assimilation at the state level because of a lack of public schooling in the middle ages and the french could, but couldn't on a global level, because of a lack of a certain agressive globalisation in the 17-18th centuries doesn't mean that right now, in the era where these two factors both come into play, english has a special linguistic quality, but rather is in a good position to exploit them.
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>>69269805
Danish, Norwegian and Afrikaans do not have conjugations per person at all

Plus their spelling is neater

And Norwegian and Danish do not really have articles and their word stress is regular
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>>69269805
>ease of English conjugation
Maybe if all the verbs were regular, you would have a point.
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>>69270320
There is no language without irregular verbs, burger.
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>>69270262
Even if we ignore the scale of the spread, Latin spread without globalization worldwide. It's still alive, but it simply evolved into more vulgar forms like Romanian and Mexican. That may be the future of English, and if it is, it shows how supreme it is in Western Civilization. Other languages however, like German, Russian, and Chinese are qualitatively inferior in the international domain. Even with globalization, it's unlikely that an alternative like Mandarin will ever replace English.
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>>69256672
>Beautiful
Have you ever heard people from Texas talk? The only dialects of English I don't consider ugly are some of the British and Canadian ones.
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>>69270593
>the ugliest scandinavian dialect posting
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>>69270593
Siger danmark

Dansk er beskidter end Hollandse fåvæ
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>>69270625
rude
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>>69270494
>Latin spread without globalization worldwide. It's still alive, but it simply evolved into more vulgar forms like Romanian and Mexican

What the fuck are you talking about? Latin spread solely because it was the written language of the educated elite and spread across europe by in an organised manner by the catholic church.


The various latin languages spread similarly to how any regular language spread.

Do we really have to go into the minutae of roman citizenship here?

And stop talking about mandarin, in that case it's a very "simple" matter of the extremely inefficient script, just contrast the volume of printed works in chinese who had the technology of print for centuries before europeans and then the print in latin scripted languages.
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>>69270769
Maybe I'm a bit unclear here, I'm drawing a distinction between the preserved Latin used by the church in post roman times and the languages that evolved through common usage by the common folk in areas where the roman empire used to be
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>>69270625
I never claimed Danish wasn't ugly. It's just that IMO German, French, Spanish and Russian are all much prettier languages than English.

>>69270654
I don't know what kind of translation program you are using, but it makes you sound like someone born in 1849.
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>>69270396
Not constructed languages, but I guess that's beside the point.
Agglutinating languages (such as Turkish, Mongolian and so on) have only a handful of irregular verbs, compared to English's 300 to nearly 500 (depending on dialect)
Sure, some languages have a bigger list, but I'd rather not keep track of this many individual forms
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>>69270972
i used my poor command of your """language"""

Hollandse was supposed to be Hollandsk, that was autocorrect
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>>69271113
The word "fåvæ" is so archaic, I had to look it up in a dictionary.
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>>69271349
For at være ærligt I meant to say.

Favæ.

What does fåvæ mean ?
>>
These language issues don't matter, in a few decades translation technology will be advanced to the point where two people speaking different languages can have a real-time conversation
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>>69271733
>These arithmetic issues don't matter. In a few decades calculation technology will be advanced to the point where a person can make a calculation without doing any brainwork himself.

Yet you still know the table of 3 by heart
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>>69256672
>Englis is a beautiful rich language. The most logical language ever emerged.
get tae fuck

all languages are equally complex, this is a scientific fact
beauty is just an opinion
what is "logical" anyway?

>Most Europeans already speak American English anyway
I don't speak English at all, but I write in a mix of British and American english (so I say "truck" instead of "lorry", and "colour" instead of "color")
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>>69271733
That seems like a good dream

In Estonian, "isa tappis karu", can mean:

A) "father killed the bear" [primary meaning]
B) "father killed a bear" [primary meaning]
C) "the bear killed father" [this word order would be used in prose]
D) "a bear killed father" [this word order would be used in prose]

And you distinguish between all these by context. The previous conversation, and the type of text.
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>>69274417
I don't really see why computers shouldn't be able to distinguish context.

If there was previous mention of a bear, it is likely that father killed THE bear.

If there's no mention of a bear before, or there was mention of multiple bears, father killed A bear.

Computer can know this.

Computers can also handle the likeliness of a sentence occuring. If the computer really had no clue which one was meant he could just take the most used meaning.

The difference between a & b and C & D. Is minimal too.
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>>69274417
This proves that Estonian would make a terrible lingua franca too. Probably why your whole language family is so small.
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>>69274718
Computational linguistics is still a primitive science. Armchair linguists have been claiming for decades that computers could parse human language within a few years. There is no computer out there who can outperform a two year old in comprehension and production.
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>>69274718
>I don't really see why computers shouldn't be able to distinguish context.
Because a lot of special cases requires intimate knowledge of the culture and subculture, which can change on the fly. Often times, a computer will just use a literal translation that means nothing in the target language. If I said "I like traps", how would the translator know if I meant literal traps, or twinks?

The only "perfect" translation would be a machine that could literally read my mind, and transfer my intentions into my partner's mind.
At that point, communicating through language at all becomes obsolete anyways.
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>>69275018
Keyword: special cases

99% of cases would be fine

>If I said "I like traps... or twinks?

Look at what has previously been said.

Associative data bases would link presceding words like "boipucci" "Twink" and "no homo" to homo traps and "bear", "net" or "boobytrap" to trap traps.

I don't think the goal is to make a perfect translation machine, which is indeed very hard. A satisfactory machine would be better than nothing.

I also expect people who know they are being translated to adapt and use more literal phrasing. Like people currently do with translators, be it human translators, be it computer translators.
>>
Sorry but I can't imagine anime in English but still have to admit that its a simple language and quite good like the rest.
>>
>>69275348
But this requires the translation software to maintain a by-the-second database of all the lingo being used within every subculture, and to know if a person is actually using that lingo in this case, or if it just sounds like it.

And of course there's the fact a machine translation won't understand nuance at all, without being able to read the speaker's mind.
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>>69275671
>By the second

Because language changes so swiftly? 99% of words retain the same definition.

What do you mean by nuance?

Why wouldn't a machine be able to read a persons mind? With neural imaging computers are closer to reading someone's mind than humans will ever be.
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>>69275457
>Sorry but I can't imagine anime in English

That's because Dubbing in America for anime is for the bottom of the barrel voice actors. Also most people don't really h ve a good "grading paper" for Japanese/foreign VA's because they don't know how to distinguish good VAs from bad VA's.
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>>69275965
>Because language changes so swiftly?
Not common language, but it does in, say, small cliques and sub-cultures.


>Why wouldn't a machine be able to read a persons mind?
It could, with the right science, but that technology is much further along, and like I said before, the need for language at all become moot once we could communicate telepathically.
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>>69256672
>English
>most logical language
Pick one
>>
>>69276534
Go worship the Zionists somewhere else, lad.
We speak English here.

Esperanto and all your other irrelevant languages will never reach global influence.
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>>69276534

Couldn't be fucked, because it gets jam packed with words literally nobody uses.
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>>69277416
>foreigner telling me how I use my own language

yuropoors watch too much movies.
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>>69277455

> foreigner thinks Norway is poor

Believe what you want, terpsichore.

It's not even your language. It's the Brits'.
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>>69277611
small irrelevant nation known for its mass shootings? it doesn't matter how many shekels you have, when no one wants to live in your country.
Besides, Norway will always live in the shadows of Sweden. Similar to how New Zealand lives in the shadow of Australia.
>>
>>69277686

> USA in charge of discussing mass shootings in other countries

Top kek. Quite accurately 1 mass shooting in Norway so far this century, vs weekly shootings in the USA.

Saying Norway will always live in the shadows of Sweden, now that's pretty much like saying like Wisconsin will always live in the shadows of Michigan. It's pretty much just as easy pursuing whatever career opportunities I may have in the somewhat safe places left in Sweden as it is moving to a different state in the USA.
>>
>>69278073
Norway is a seperate country from Sweden, the fuck are you talking about, Sven?
>>
Portuguese conjugation of the verb Comer "to eat":

como comes come comemos comeis comem
comi comeste comeu comemos comestes comeram
comia comias comia comíamos comíeis comiam
comera comeras comera comêramos comêreis comeram
comerei comerás comerá comeremos comereis comerão
comeria comerias comeria comeríamos comeríeis comeriam
coma comas coma comamos comais comam
comesse comesses comesse comêssemos comêsseis comessem
comer comeres comer comermos comerdes comerem
come coma comamos comei comam
comas coma comamos comais comam

Now, the same, but with an "it" after eat, if "it" is male:

como-o come-lo come-o comemo-lo comei-lo comem-no
comi-o comeste-o comeu-o comemo-lo comeste-lo comeram-no
comia-o comia-lo comia-o comíamo-lo comíei-lo comiam-no
comera-o comera-lo comera-o comêramo-lo comêrei-lo comeram-no
comê-lo-ei comê-lo-ás comê-lo-á comê-lo-emos comê-lo-eis comê-lo-ão
comê-lo-ia comê-lo-ias comê-lo-ia comê-lo-íamos comê-lo-íeis comê-lo-iam
o coma o comas o coma o comamos o comais o comam
o comesse o comesses o comesse o comêssemos o comêsseis o comessem
o comer o comeres o comer o comermos o comerdes o comerem
come-o coma-o comamo-lo comei-o comam-no
o comas o coma o comamos o comais o comam

Then we have the same but with "it" being female (a), or a pronoun (me, te, se, lhe, lhes)

What's so hard about it?
Thread posts: 109
Thread images: 10


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Read more on this topic here - https://archived.moe/talk/thread/1694/


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