what went wrong

>>68641226
Freddie Mac
Fannie Mae
and a couple of botched attempts to make world a better place.

>>68641226
>1993 - We want trading block and currency union in Europe to help Eastern European nations that are just recovering from Communist tyranny. Any kind attempts for European United State(s) will be abolished...
>2016 - HURR EUROPEAN INTEGRATION, HURR FUCK EAST, HURRR SOLIDARITY, HURR FEDERATION, HURR EUROPEAN ARMY, HURR ...
Do I need to continue?

>>68641226
Merkel reich

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>>68641226
everything

It is times like this when people realize it was as bad idea to begin with. Just like communism.

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Eastern enlargement

>>68645412
If you can't do it by force, try doing it on the sly. Fortunately people are catching on, I hope the Eu falls apart within the next 10-20 years

>>68641226
>>68641655
>>68645478
I voted Leave, however, I don't think the EU is a fundamentally bad idea

I actually want to promote unity among the West, to strengthen us against China (and Islam)

The problem is:

a) lack of direct/transparent democracy, lack of accountability
b) trying to erode national identities through mass immigration

I also think the EU will continue to survive, but it will be forced to make concessions in these particular areas, since they are the areas that the whole of Europe is protesting about.

For one thing, EU elections should be as transparent as national elections. Each EU party should launch a manifesto, and have a visible leader who will be elected EU Commission President if that party wins (neither of these things happen now - the EU Commission Pres. is chosen AFTER the election at the moment). At the moment people have no idea who the EU parties are, let alone their leaders, or their policies. That's not democracy. There should be media campaigns from each EU party in the run-up to each EU elections so citizens know EXACTLY what EU legislative programme they are voting for. Otherwise, as I say, it's not real democracy.

>>68641655
>We want trading block and currency union in Europe to help Eastern European nations that are just recovering from Communist tyranny
That was not the point of the EU at all, the European community and common market has been developing since the 1950s among the West Europeans and was never meant to be a recovery program for slavic shitholes.

By 2050, Europe will just be a bunch of meme city states, even with independent city blocks. Just in time for the russian bear to walk in and institute the 1000-year cheeki breeki.

>>68645663
Exactly, it was meant to be a recovery program for the shithole that is germany after WWII, which they(surprise!) found a way to abuse yet again

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>>68645655
>us against China (and Islam)

That's how the globalism meme starts - with the bogeyman. We are strong enough without the EU. If anything, it would inevitably collapse and crush us all, precisely because:

>a) lack of direct/transparent democracy, lack of accountability
>b) trying to erode national identities through mass immigration

Most reasonable people want an "EU" but without everything that makes the EU what it is. Like I said - good in theory, bad in practice, just like communism.

>>68641226
They let perfidious Albion join

>>68641226
>Lisboa treaty
>control of the Central Bank by non elected people
>corruption
>monetary union with too many economic disparities (Latvia, Estonia... )
>hate between Eastern and Western countries (especially polacks hating everyone )
>undemocratic decision making
>economic crisis and the way it's been handled
>refugee crisis showing the lack of unity and how useless the union actually is.

Should have stayed at France, Germany, Benelux, Spain and Italy

>>68641226
Americans

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>>68641226
We allowed these shitholes to join.
Also Frau Merkel.

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>try and copy USA (with infinitely less freedom of speech)
>fail
>get stuck with millions of mudslimes to boot

topkek can Yuropoors get anything right?

>>68647615
really rich considering the US is thr only reason they're stuck with millions of mudslimes.

>destabilize the region
>hey brah, not our problem

thank christ you're finally declining

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this

>>68647615
>try and copy USA (with infinitely less freedom of speech)
no
>fail
it worked well so far, nothing ever goes perfectly according to plan
>get stuck with millions of mudslimes to boot
thanks to a 60% white shithole that loves to start wars in the middle east since 1991

>>68647676
Nobody told you to let all the slimes in you irrelevant fuck, but keep blaming us like the little faggot you are. USA bad, USA behind everything, give me a fucking break.

>declining
Holy fucking lel, I hope you don't honestly believe that. You're a dumb Balkanigger though s you might.

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>>68647755
>Shitaly calling anyone non-white

Really funny coming from Moorish rapebabies who have thousands of niggers straight from Africa flowing in daily.

>>68647830
better thousands than 42 millions :)

>>68647799
Behold the level of discourse of the average american. All your problems go away by fixing -nigger- to the end of a sentence, don't they?

And yes, you've got a few decades left then you're done.

>>68647862
You're already not white so it doesn't matter I guess, you're right.

>>68647881
>hurr durr all yurop problems are amerikka fault!!!

Behold the level of discourse from your average Turkish spawn. I can't even say your country is on the decline because it was never good in the first place. Sad.

Realpolitik. A shit way of ensuring nobody ever truly gets what they want and every side compromises its ideals.

>>68646340
>That's how the globalism meme starts - with the bogeyman.
But they are not boogeymen you fucking cuck

China is stealing our fucking industry

>Most reasonable people want an "EU" but without everything that makes the EU what it is. Like I said - good in theory, bad in practice, just like communism.
Comparing it to fucking communism? What are you, a fucking moron?

I'm saying that the democracy of the EU should model itself exactly on the democracy of nation states, and you're saying that's communism?

What the fuck is wrong with you?

>>68647933
>Realpolitik. A shit way of ensuring nobody ever truly gets what they want and every side compromises its ideals.
If the EU was as transparent as national governments then people WOULD be able to get what they want

The issue is that EU parties don't campaign enough. In fact they don't campaign at all. Nobody knows who or what they are voting for - they don't know the people they're voting for, they don't know the manifestos they're voting for. EU politicians are not transparent in the slightest.

If the EU wants the people of Europe to accept it then it has to be as transparent as the democracies of nation states.

They should have televised debates between the leaders of the EU parties before the run up to each election, as well as large advertising campaigns so everybody knows what the fuck they're voting for.

>>68647923
>all yurop problems are amerikka fault

I never said that. I said this specific problem you referenced(mudslimes) is america's fault and it is, you just happen to be an ocean away so they can't come flooding to you. Forgive me if I'm a bit miffed since we here have to deal with it while you pretend you didn't do nuffin!

>>68648028
Transparency and open government is overrated. If you think of it from a base level here, it doesn't really matter who is heading the party that governs. I don't see the urgency in letting everyone know who these people are. We delegate responsibility to an elected body to choose for us. Because they know so we don't have to research and know.

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>>68647962
>But they are not boogeymen
>you fucking cuck

If you believe in MSM bogeymen, then you are the cuck my friend.

In fact is we have no conflict whatsoever with China. All they care about is the South China sea, and it is literally on the other side of the world from Europe.

>What the fuck is wrong with you?

You didn't understand my post. Read it again.

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>>68648168
>Transparency and open government is overrated.

lmao

>We delegate responsibility to an elected body to choose for us

You mean we delegate responsibility to an "elected body" that delegates responsibility to an unelected body to choose for "us". And the "elected body" is a body of career politicians who can't stray one cm from party line of parties which themselves live on funds from special interest and coverage from corporate media.

Great showcase of how "transparency is overrated".

>>68648040
I'm just curious as to when we gave the order to open up your borders. These people leave their countries and come to yours because YOU, your European Union lets them.

Or are you admitting that EU and Europe are an American proxy? Pretty sad in either case.

>>68648430
>Just close your border
It worked out fine with Mexico, right?

>>68641226
>what went wrong
lack of common language

>>68648406
Congrats, you summed up why EU and most of our western democracies are shit in just one paragraph.

Well done desu.

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>>68641226
Everything.

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>>68648430
>Or are you admitting that EU and Europe are an American proxy?

>Peter Sutherland
>Former European Commissioner
>Current UN Special Representative for International Migration
>Literally the single most important person pushing mass-migration into Europe
>Was non-executive chairman of Goldman Sachs for 20 years

You tell me

>>68648485
Our border hasnt been closed Wladyslaw. It's been wide open and our current president refuses to act for the obvious reasons. Hence the new guy we voted in.

>>68648406
I don't think you're fully understanding what point I am trying to make. I would suggest your brush up on your English reading comprehension.

I am saying that criticisms of the EU regarding it's perceived lack of transparency is not based in anything substantial. Nobody knows what Jean-Claude Juncker does because it doesn't matter to most people. In the grand scheme of things, as long as they are killing people and suppressing populations, most people don't particularly care and with good reason. Because 95% of the electorate just want a paycheck, and aren't autistic political anoraks with high minded ideas of muh transparency.

>>68648430
Well fuck man, you won't find me defending the EU, unfortunately my country is a part of it now and we follow "guidelines" which are in no way orders from germany's pathetic attempts at being a reich again.

that doesn't change anything. the fact of the matter is there would be no refugees without you, you are the source of the problem so it's primarily your fault. you can dismiss this as me being just another european who hates the US, but i don't. i'm just saying what's true, and you're at fault.

you country has this habit of waging wars while 99% of the citizens of your country are practically unaware you're even IN a war, and you exploit that to do stupid and reckless shit. germans are cucks, you're assholes

>>68641226
Honestly, recession. 2007 and 2012 did a number on you guys. Thank America and Greece. The idea of having a monetary union, but not a fiscal one is retarded btw

eagerness to forgive

>>68648629
Hate your govt for submitting to the EU and signing away its sovereignty you fucking chump. End of discussion.

People didn't support Obama's bullshit in the mideast as evidenced by who we just elected. But the governments of the EU (and by association yours) backed him every step of the way in his actions in Libya, Syria and elsewhere.

Stop shifting blame to my country on every issue. It's not a good look.

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>>68648647
I already know that. They have Jericho 3 ICBMs which out-range every Middle Eastern capital by far. They were only developed to be aimed at Europe.

Yet somehow retards in Europe still believe Israel is "our ally". Such an amount of blind idiocy always raises my hackles.

>>68648593
My English reading comprehension is perfectly good.

>as long as they are killing people and suppressing populations
>most people don't particularly care and with good reason

wew lad. I doubt our misunderstanding is a matter of language.

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>mfw EU is the modern day expanded HRE

>>68648806
*Aren't

Oh look, you've reduced your rebuttal to a spelling mistake.

>>68648757
>Stop shifting blame

wow. just wow. You know, that's fine. You go to sleep on your bed or freedom and dream of bald eagles. like anything i say will make you act otherwise

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>>68648818
>expanded HRE

More like the expanded HUE.

Biggest fucking joke, just that we live it.

>>68648901
Europe's governments agreed with our (Obama's) policy in the middle east. Europe's governments decided to open their borders and allow millions of mudslimes in without any vetting. You choose not to refute this but instead continue to say hurr Amurikkka like the fucking yokel you are. Please stop. Your position is indefensible.

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Why can't yuros stop the boats? They will need to

too cuck, trying to spoil europe

Nothing. Now that the mouthpiece of the US is leaving it will be strengthened and more able to act independently.

>>68647962
>China is stealing our fucking industry

Wahhhhh competition

>>68648828
But they are killing people and suppression populations in Libya and Syria. Corruption always reinforced itself, you can see it in any historical example. By removing transparency you create a potential for corruption which gets greater until the state collapses.

We are paying taxes and thus the wages for career politicians and their bureaucracy. We are entitled to know exactly what they are doing.

>>68648430
I don't think you understand chronological order

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>>68649033
Let's not be unrealistic here.

>>68649299
China has provided the greatest gift to the world economy in a millennia.

I support Trump, and I am mildly protectionist, but competition and relatively cheaper goods/services outweighs the negatives of China.

Only economic illiterates disagree, just as they blame China as the boogeyman when it is only part of a far greater economic cycle.

>>68649498
the world economy and current economic cycle are about to collapse regardless of what trump and china do

>>68649595
>le economic collapse prediction

Even 2008 wasn't as bad as the Great Depression. Collapse doesn't happen anymore.

>>68649618
>2008
>Great Depression
>Collapse doesn't happen anymore.
you are cute

>>68645655
>For one thing, EU elections should be as transparent as national elections. Each EU party should launch a manifesto, and have a visible leader who will be elected EU Commission President if that party wins (neither of these things happen now - the EU Commission Pres. is chosen AFTER the election at the moment). At the moment people have no idea who the EU parties are, let alone their leaders, or their policies. That's not democracy. There should be media campaigns from each EU party in the run-up to each EU elections so citizens know EXACTLY what EU legislative programme they are voting for. Otherwise, as I say, it's not real democracy.

EU can't be a democracy for one simple reason. It would look like an actual state. It would reveal one important thing to the people of Europe, other people in Europe are voting about their government. I can assure you THAT wouldn't go down well. Germans voting on what should Czechs or Polacks do? Or the French?

>>68649618
>collapse doesn't happen anymore
Man, you're in for a treat

>>68649999
You would need extremely strong state rights provisions, far stronger than anything the US had even before the civil war. Nullification-tier provisions.

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>>68650217
Let's do this!

>>68650274
le pen might actually stall it for a bit if only by throwing finance into chaos, but nothing short of the total destruction of global civilization will be able to stop the collapse

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>>68650411
We just need France to secede, then the EU will crash guaranteed.

That's good enough for now.

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>>68650444
Holy fuck, second trips in 10 posts.

France or Netherlands to secede, that crashes the Jewropean Union. Though I wouldn't rely on the Dutchcucks to get anything done.

nothing it is still good as fuck
jealous foreigner faggots btfo

>>68641655
calm your butthurt ivan nobody wants you poor faggots in our great union

>>68641226
1. Bureaucracy. For a long time it was so bad that it was illegal to sell small fruit! It's not quite that bad any more, but there are still too many unnecessary regulations.

2. The Common Agricultural Policy wasted billions subisidizing inefficient French farmers, while the Common Fisheries Policy resulted in overfishing.

3. The Euro. Preventing countries from adapting to their economic circumstances by adjusting the value of their currency, but failing to compensate the ones that are the victims of that (and with the Growth and Stability Pact, actually making it a lot worse). This problem could be solved by letting countries borrow from the ECB at concessional rates, but that would be anathema to the Germans.

4.Political Correctness led to genuine problems failing to be addressed.

And because of those four problems, there's been a lot of scapegoating of immigrants and of the EU itself.

Judging by this thread, it's amount of ignorance coupled with tendency of human mind to come up with bullshit instead of finding out facts that went wrong.
Most of the strong opinions here are based in ignorance and feelings based on this ignorance.

I could sort of agree with the general points here >>68653702 but the problem is they are mostly products of preference of national politicians to agree on a systemically flawed compromise rather than try to find a system that works and negotiate compensations.
>1. Bureaucracy
This is true, but it's not enough to say a buzzword. Someone needs to specify the bad regulation and come up with alternative that will do its goal better. To some extent that is what is happening, but obviously it's slower and harder than just saying "lol bureaucracy fuck EU"
>2. CAP
>3. Euro
Both are fundamentally good things if done properly. Every country subsidizes its farmers, but it needs to be done in a way that won't invalidate the common market which would surely happen if it was left purely to national governments. If you want a common currency, you need a way to share the benefits of it, not just use it as a tool to cannibalize your partners in trade within community.
>Political correctness
By itself it's another buzzword, although abuse of form over substance in political discourse is something that plagues more than just EU, and in more ways than just "niggers r bad ok".
>look at words he's using, he's clearly evil and we don't have to address whatever he says
And it doesn't help if people who claim political correctness is problem don't have any realistic solutions of their own. They just want to tear old system down but have nothing to put in place after it.

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>>68641226
Corrupt to the core, retarded bureaucracy and extreme liberal political correctness.

It's perfectly fine. The structure just makes it easy bait for retards who don't understand how it works.

Like I'm probably the only poster ITT who knows what a directive is.

western fags living on welfare and thinking they are some hot shit while they cant even change a lightbulb

>>68654472
Sharing a currency with southeast europeans was a retarded idea.
Unification for the sake of itself.

>>68654921
Greek economic vulnerability and policymakers' conduct only revealed the weakness sooner. A crisis in other country, even France or Germany, would reveal them as well.

>>68655032
But a crisis like this wouldnt have happened here.
Why share such inequal economies for the same currency? Its harmful.

>>68649618
famous last words

>>68655077
>But a crisis like this wouldnt have happened here.
Maybe not today, but can you tell what political establishment another eurozone country will have in five, ten, fifteen years? Can you predict all possible developments and government's response to it? Euro did well at removing transaction barriers, but it made competition less forgiving and prone to exacerbating imbalances.
>Why share such inequal economies for the same currency? Its harmful.
Not by necessity, although making it beneficial for everyone would also make it more expensive and less profitable for those most successful.

>>68655158
While socialist follys are not only restricted to the south as the french agrarian subsidies and our wealth transmission towards illegals shows we can still actually back our currency with an industrial output while countries such as greece can only with tourism and sweatshops but decided to skip the icky sweatshop part which prooved unsustainable.

A northern and a southern euro would make the weaker economies more competitive with their soft industry while the northern euro wouldnt be dragged down by fragile markets.
The latter would be privileged out of solidarity and procimity which may lead to longlasting stability and growth.

>>68655429
Solidarity and proximity seem to me weaker guarantees of systemic stability than well built and enforced legal framework, assuming everyone can agree to it (and shouldn't be part of the common currency if they don't)

As for agriculture and especially migration, well there's another two topics where nations of Europe can't seem to find working compromise on, instead engaging in rhetoric battles aimed towards national audience.

>>68655606
But how can a legal framework applie to completely differing kinds of econonies?
Greece is not an industrial country.

>>68641226
It's an attempt to create United States of Europe, pure and simple.

The reason why it will fail is:
>USA unified far, far slower, EU politicians are trying to achieve in decades what took Americans centuries
>inhabitants of the USA willingly shed their previous identities to become American, this was helped by the fact that there are almost no requirements for being an American
>Europeans on the other hand have a shitload of identity and continuity, most of it based on trying to defend it against others from Europe who would try to destroy that identity
>no clearly defined enemy - Russia is the prime candidate but there is that small matter of supplying half of Europe with gas. China is next but again, they produce too much shit to be declared enemies
>Euro - Euro is a masterful ploy. You create a single currency that actually fits NOBODY'S needs. All that talk about saving on transaction costs is a load of bull, the Euro was designed to necessitate further unification, by crisis if necessary

>>68655702
Heavy industry is not the only way to make money and compete, and Greeks along with other southern Europeans are not incapable of it. Southern Italy is not the same thing but I did see ABB and various chemical and pharmaceutical plants there when visiting. However if they do get outcompeted and are stripped of protective barrier of currency depreciation, they need system of transfer payments to compensate and help them develop instead of plunging them into deflation spiral.
This obviously creates another problem of administering and targeting these transfers to avoid or mitigate moral hazard which payments for failure to compete are guaranteed to attract.

Yes, it really is easier to have own currency.

>>68641226
>Germany
>France
>UK

that's what went wrong

Eastern Europe was a mistake. Fucking commies.

>>68656185
Southern Europe was the mistake.

>>68656185
Can you actually elaborate and specify why do you think so?
Does it amount to anything more than "hurr durr cohesion fund leeches" and "hurr durr muh quotas"?

or perhaps
"hurr durr they work for less than I do"?

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>>68645521
>the 90s
everything looked so bright lads

>>68656020
>only way to make money
It was more about backing the money.
But yea, we seem to agree on that with the one currency many problems thing.

>>68641226
romania and bulgaria joining, then the refugee crisis

these two reasons alone made britain leave

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>>68654472
>Both are fundamentally good things if done properly

In this case i have to disagree although otherwise i agree. Euro is very situational and for us it worked in the short run but now it's holding us back from making easy decisions in revitalizing our economy since we can't regulate the currency.

>>68650501
>cuckservatives
>god emperor
>jews
>(((them)))
fuck out of here >>>/pol/

>>68641226
1. German reunification overthrow the balance, German economy outcompeted and fucked everyone else, especially the meds.
2. Monetary union without a fiscal union was destined to fail.
3. Antidemocratic, globalist technocratic bureucracy fucking over everyone, trying to disband borders and destroy nation states and native nations of Europe.

retards stopped the extermination of jews

>>68649618
The total financial collapse was and still is supressed artificially, globalist fucks only wait for the right moment to unleash its full rage upon us, possibly to make an optimal environment for WW3.

>>68641226
Created by America to weaken France, and allow Germany to restore itself until she can compete with France, now a supranational entity made to destroy Europe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRXsQ96H144

FUCK KIKEMERICA

>>68657288
Good goy

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Germany ruined Europe for the third time because they get off on making white people's lives a misery.

When will the eternal Kraut be gassed so Europe can live in peace and harmony?

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>>68641226
It became Neo-USSR as soon as it started accepting Eastern Block countries into the fold

Really makes u think.

>>68646687
>a Spaniard supporting the EU

how cucked can you get

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>>68654570
ORBÁN is so BASED. What a man!

Every country needs an Orbán.

>>68641226
Letting countries like mine in

>>68645521
you've made billions on it, m8.

>>68647830
Still better than beind an american asperger keyboard warrior who haven't seen a pussy since his birth

>>68647830
So your continent (and country) is named after a nonwhite. Cool.

Neormarxists took over. The "let's fight communism" policy changed to "let's try communism once again"

>>68667146
former eastern bloc countries have so little power and are so irrelevant in the EU that blaming the problems on them is the most pathetic thing one can say

>>68641226
A bunch of fucktards only agreed to do everything half-assed because of "muh sovereignty" so it all turned to shit.

... Also Greeks, Bulgars and other subhumans I guess.

>>68663437
It was always a Neo-USSR
A lot of the powerful people behind the EU were affiliated with USSR Satellite states and communist parties

>>68668007
Right, the commies agreed to do their communism only half-ass. If they did it like full power on, it would be definitely so much better.

>>68668074
Nah, communism is a shitty idea in itself, unlike realizing Europes potential as a superpower. Y'all balkanization tards are like spoiled kids fighting over who gets the bigger bedroom while the house is on fire.

>>68668123
Yeah, let's focus on the pity problem of the kids having a fight and forget the guy who set the house on fire.

>>68668184
>baaawh, someone was mean to me, lets hand the keys over to Chad, Ivan and Cheng
Great plan.

Trying to build something with Germany that was already confirmed to be the most evil country of the 20th century.
They never accomplished anything and got no culture, they're literally white niggers with a jewish mentality

>>68668238
are you retarded?

>>68656220
anything east from Germany was an error

>>68641226
It got Highjacked by globalist elites.

>>68668074
If you think that what EU is doing is "communism" then you know nothing of its history, of its present and not even about what communism is.
The "EUSSR" meme is a catchy one so I'll give you that. But it has nothing to do with reality - it's just a way to win political capital at expense of rational discourse.

>>68669131
I think the point is that the USSR was a huge supranational monster state that actively attempted to suppress national identities while promoting "homo sovieticus", the New Soviet Man in order to create a large, homogenous polity. Kind of like when eurocrats harp on about the need to be "Good Europeans" and try to give their construct all the trappings of a state.

>>68669355
The point is to paint EU as an enemy, to associate it with an evil from not so recent past. This can be done for various reasons, from cynical political calculus on national level, through foreign activity seeking to drive the community apart to genuine fear born of ignorance.

And that's despite the fact that this shit is not really comparable.

Soviets enacted strict control over countries they controlled and did not hesitate to employ surveillance, imprisonment, torture and murder, even mass murder, of their ideological opponents. They restricted travel not only abroad, where own citizens would be shot trying to leave, but also within the "brother nations".
If a nation wanted to leave this happy arrangement, they would not hesitate to invade it.

This is in stark contrast to union that has provisions from leaving, freedoms, especially economic freedoms, are foundation of its existence and most of its failures can be tracked down to its governing structure being paralyzed by inability of its constituent countries to agree on what the proper response should be.

I'm not seeing any suppression of national identities either. If anything, national culture is promoted from social funds. In this EU is nothing but a scapegoat while the true cause of eroding those identities is consumerism.

>>68669835
Your Union is making the turkey deal.

Also fake news is big news here in Germany, soon EU far restrictions on media comming.

EUSSR may be an exageration. But will it stay an exaggeration?

>>68641226
Brussels

>>68669835
>economic freedoms
laughs were had

>>68641226
Integration bureaucrats in Brussels too concerned with their own belly buttons to see the real problems facing Europe.

>>68649199
Not competition china does not follow our rules of buying companies. A lot of Chinas giant companies are directly supported by the state which means if they want to buy a company money does not matter to them because they have near infinite capital. Which leads to western companies not even trying to compete with them because they know they can`t, because they adhere to our rules and have a investment limit. We should not have allowed the chinese to buy western companies until they follow our rules and we can buy their companies.

>>68668582
Anything south of Austria was an error

>>68654622
You're not alone Swedbro. Fucking indirect effect is a bitch sometimes.

>>68670988
>But will it stay an exaggeration?
That's for constitutional courts, watchdog NGOs and citizens themselves to ensure.
You are right to be concerned about media regulation going too far.

>>68671070
Free movement of capital, workers, goods and services are listed as fundamental in the treaties, and market economy is accepted as standard. Go czech even heritage or some other cult's economic freedom rankings and you'll see many european countries up there despite having regulated and taxed economy. Again, you don't know what freedom is and you don't know what it means to be denied it.

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>>68669835
>by inability of its constituent countries to agree on what the proper response should be

Maybe those countries either shouldn't be in an Union or that particular topic should remain in the hands of local governments then

The comparison to USSR stems from the similarities like attempts at directing the economy (case in point: agricultural quotas), union of countries that have very little in common, similar "Bright future, let's cooperate" rhetoric and presence of bona fide communists like Barroso or commie-enablers like Juncker

Probably nobody save for idiots argues that EU is the same as USSR but the fear that it could turn into something similar is valid

>>68671825

>Maybe those countries either shouldn't be in an Union or that particular topic should remain in the hands of local governments then
I agree, actually. If the nations of Europe do not want to work together, EU should fall apart. Not because it's "evil", but because we prefer short term benefits over our collective interest in keeping Europe secure, prosperous and free - or are so fundamentally convinced that we can secure all of this for ourselves better than we can together.

>attempts at directing the economy (case in point: agricultural quotas)
If you believe this, you've been fooled.
Every developed country subsidizes its agriculture. These subsidies naturally distort the market, and thus EU needs common agricultural policy to preserve the common market.

>"Bright future, let's cooperate" rhetoric
That's not really unique to EU, and cooperation for better future is the point why it exists.

>presence of bona fide communists like Barroso or commie-enablers like Juncker
Good. That's democracy. If people vote for them, they're there. Juncker was at head of christian democrats which won the election, and the election is not less valid just because people are ignorant of it and don't bother to vote.
If that makes me a "commie enabler", I don't care.

>fear that it could turn into something similar is valid
It's as valid as any other change in direction of a dystopia. It's something that needs to keep civil society vigilant. EU is not the only potential vehicle for such changes, and it can just as well be an entity for preventing it.

>>68672418
>our collective interest in keeping Europe

But there is no Europe. There is no European identity and henceforth no collective interest.

>That's not really unique to EU
But it was one of the signature signs of the USSR

>Good. That's democracy. If people vote for them, they're there. Juncker was at head of christian democrats which won the election, and the election is not less valid just because people are ignorant of it and don't bother to vote.
If that makes me a "commie enabler", I don't care.

There are three ways you can deal with the wrong party winning in the elections. You can either go around trying to convince people to vote different next time, wait it out and hope they won't cause too much damage or you can declare independence.

The election is less valid when people don't vote. It means the damn thing shouldn't be voted about in the first place, certainly not on that level.

>>68645663
After the Cold War it incorporated that idea, the EU wanted to expand its market while also weakening russian influence in Europe