Was communism really that bad? Everyone tells me that we used

Authentic communism would be amazing, but it's pretty much impossible to get there without shit going wrong

communism made you feel good
that's itself is nice to remember

so if you hate your bowl of porridge in the capitalism end time you may not in the revolutionary struggle

and so on

>>68297551
>Authentic democracy would be amazing, but it's pretty much impossible to get there without shit going wrong
Same shit

It's always worth trying.

I don't know about communism, but I do know life was better before cultural marxists attempted to brainwash everyone.

its nostalgia. people, including me, tend to find it was better before internet became a thing. its not really about communism but about pre-information society where each country was culturally more divided.

>ussr
life expectancy is longer
retirement age is earlier

>without ussr
life expectancy is shorter
retirement age is later
tell me what is better

>>68298043
I know what you are trying to say, and I agree, but please, don't use the termn "Cultural Marxism". Please, read at least basic Marx before using such a dumb concept

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>>68297508
>Everyone
maybe old poor commieblock dwelling lower class
>>68297508
>used to live better in the 80s
bullshit, there way nothing available
>>68297508
>s it just nostalgia
yes, for old fucks and degenerates who served the party

>>68297508
To operate a perfect system, a perfect person is needed.
It is impossible for Europeans.

>>68298347
son of a dangerous freedom fighter spotted

>>68298347
>seggfájós kulák poronty született 90 után

nagyapád tuti párttag volt köcsög azért verheted a nyálad most a pízedre, tolvaj cigány
öld meg magad

post war commienism was okay

also 80s were better everywhere

>live better in the 80s

It was shit? Turks were living better during the 80s. Perception of less shit is still shit but the putinbots will tell you a different story

Americans had the internet during the 80s? Hungarian Universities had what? A pencil?

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>>68298764
Nope, but i was a kid in the 80s

>>68298875
See above and yes, "peasant family" who was poor as shit thanks to the party.Today the same "peasant families" drive bmw suvs producing high quality food for western european export.

Only freeloader commieblock dwelling lower class might be nostalgic about communism

>>68299010
>Americans had the internet during the 80s?

they had lives

>>68297508
Communism is less dangerous than capitalism in destroying souls.

Communism produced Poland and Hungary, Capitalism produced France and Sweden.

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>>68299010
You weren't allowed into higher education uless your family had connection with the party.
Today we have free higher education.

>>68299050
Go eat shit

>>68299076
>connection with the party.

You mean everyone? Even the local dog had connections to the party.

>>68297508
Communism and the consumerist capitalism that we live with today are both materialism and anti-Christian which is why they create so much misery.

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>>68299313
Okay, everyone had some connection because literaly everything was state owned but people still disappeared overnight, but okay than if your family was in the upper circles of the party.There.

>>68299010
Most Americans didn't have access to the internet or even know what it was in the 80's.
>>68299050
We did as well, and less fat. Even outcasts left their homes to ride bikes or go to the mall to play video games in the arcades. The internet slowly turned people into amorphous blobs.

Hungary was one of the best Communist countries to live in, that Poland and Yugoslavia, with Yugoslavia being the best overall.

Hungary's system was called "Goulash Communism" or "Communism with a human face", it allowed some amount of criticism of the party, it allowed western goods and music and shit like that. It's where people in the USSR would go holiday outside of Crimea. This is why Hungary has one of the highest levels of Soviet Nostalgia, because it was actually a decent country.

>inb4 GDP, GDP means absolute jack shit in a "socialist" society since goods are produced on basis of need, not consumption.

The worst, according to my older workmates who lived in the Eastern Bloc was East Germany, it was a totalitarian shithole according to them, even by Soviet standards.

Interestingly enough, everyone in the Soviet sphere saw North Korea as a batshit crazy country back then as well.

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>>68299718
Most of that is bullshit and there is no nostalgia for communism here.The leftover of "the party" the socialist party is shrinking because their voter base is literally dying out.

>>68299718
My Grandfather was lucky enough to travel for a bit during the USSR times as he was the principal of one school here in Lithuania. He was allowed to bring only certain amount of money because everything was that better in the more western parts like Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia and East Germany compared to the USSR. Things like clothes (especially jeans), candy, electronics that you could find there was like a miracle to an average soviet citizen.

>>68299887
yeah, no
we had genuinely better living prospects back then
antagonizing ""kulak""s was fuckig retarded and hopefully would have died down wih time

From what I've heard it was oppressive, but also peaceful and the lack of choice came with security in your future.
That security turned out false because the system collapsed.
There was also a limit to how much you could achieve without connections.

It only killed tens of millions of people

Pretty good otherwise, maybe we should try it again and if it kills hundreds of millions we know it's bad

>>68297508
My parents lived in Bulgaria from the 70s to 90s and said it was amazing, and that what were taught here (that communism in Eastern europe was horrific) is far from the truth and just propaganda.

>westerners responding

>>68300993
that's why I said late communism

> Was communism really that bad?
Not really, but it's pretty obvious we could do better without it.

>>68297508
Due to weak proletariat in Empire and losses in WW2, soviet dictatorship of proletariat degenerated to dictatorship of the party. Then party nomenclature made counter-revolution and became new capitalist ruling class.

>>68301256
t. Trotsky

It's not that bad.

>>68301600
How is it in Vietnam?

>>68298282
What is the proper term for what he wanted to say?

>>68300292
What's miraculous about jeans

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>>68301656
It's really nice, we have a market based system so its kinda like the west - we love Europeans a lot.

Wish more would come here.

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>>68297508
It sure was

>>68301832
Vietnamese are our biggest east asian minority in Bulgaria.
But we don't have many of you here either.

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but that wasn't real communism

The only thing that killed more people than communism is the Black Death.

>>68299337
The leaf speaks truth

>>68299634
The internet wasn't even available to regular consumers until the early 90s.

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>>68299337
>>68302000
>Consumerism is bad

>>68301888
Eastern Europe is a very attractive place for many here. We love the people, culture, history, and art.
What is Bulgaria like?

>>68302046
It can be, communism will always be (bad)

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>>68301256
(((proletariat)))

>>68298206
>people, including me, tend to find it was better before internet became a thing.
do you hate washing machines and microwaves too?

>>68301832
>communism
>market based system
huế huế huế

>>68301746
"Cultural Marxism" just doesn't exit you dumb fuck. According to Marx the whole relations between men were ruled by economic domination. Nothing cultural, feminist, or in favor of any minorities. Marxism is the law of the oppressed majority, the blue-collars.

>>68297508
We had a pretty good standard of life in SFRY, but this was in spite of communism - were it not for the western gibsmedats to keep away from the Warsaw pact, we'd have been shit (as evidenced by the collapse that happened when the gibs stopped flowing in the late 80's)

>>68298935
>80s were better everywhere
>t. born in 2001

>>68302166
Sure, G*d-blessed Mother Russia was raped and cummed upon by jews, aliens and anglo-saxons.

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>>68302166

>>68298228
Well, the problem is more with Russia gring corrupt as fuck. In the west people built thier own companies. You guys gave all state property to a very few friends of the government when the union collapsed. Ofcourse it was gonna turn out shit.

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>>68297508
Stalin's model was excessive and too top–heavy, the cult of the leader often sent things into descent if the C.I.A. didn't stick in a plot to counter–revolve.
Based Sigurimi
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07j4ppw

the right–wingers and liberal think tankers would (and still don't) allow a state that doesn't have some kind or variant of capitalism to succeed. Just look at Cuba, that embargo for so many years, those attempts to assassinate/overthrow F. Castro all for the sake of caring about democracy (?)

[see inside image for a vaguely relevant strip]

>>68298228
The transition was horribly mismanaged though. You can't say what happened was unavoidable.

>>68297551
There would literally be no competition (= no excitement), and you would have no possibility to get rich, you will always live in a fucking commieblock and celebrate "work" instead of Christmas

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>>68302166
What is he trying to prove by this image?
>>68304047
year afтer year, the amount of work around or paying for Christmas has only increased, or so it seems.

>Was communism really that bad?
yes
>Everyone tells me that we used to live better in the 80s than now
let me guess, that everybody is a bunch of pensioners who got free shit at the cost of the system collapsing and young retards who have no experience from soviet times?
>Is it just nostalgia or not?
to a large extent it is, the filler material is just pure stupidity
>I have a feeling that the USSR couls have been succesful if it didn't need to fight an arms race with the west t b h
nope. the plan economy system was fundamentally fucked. there is no way to make it work, only a fool would try to

>>68301792
you wouldn't understand this, but a pair of jeans made you a made man. also bubblegum. yep, bitches loved bubblegum

t. kid from 80s

>>68301832
The free market brought you prosperity, progress and prosperity, right?

Fear, scarcity and corruption sure is great.

>>68297508
yes praise Lenin and Stalin alalallalala

>>68297551
This. On paper communism is ideal, but there's always human factor. And people WILL fuck up other people, always, so communism won't work.

>>68302527
The question was what is the right term not what isn't the right term, retard

>>68307186
>on paper its moral to take money from one person and give it to another ignoring the time, effort, and work that the first put in

Why can't people get over communism, despite everything that it's resulted in people look at it with fondness.

>>68299718
>Interestingly enough, everyone in the Soviet sphere saw North Korea as a batshit crazy country back then as well

The Soviet leadership were even skeptical of North Korea as they feared that they were liable to start a disastrous war in their quest to reunify the Korean peninsula.

Life under gommunism:

*You have no freedom or right to control your own destiny. The state tells you where you can live and what jobs you can have.
*Consumer goods are poor quality and in short supply--it can take months to purchase a bicycle, TV set, or coffee table.
*Jobs are mostly assigned based on your status as a member of the proletarian class such as "worker" or "peasant", or because you have connections to some party bigshot, and you could be denied a job if a member of your family did something politically unacceptable.
*If you complain about anything, you go to jail or a labor camp.
*Religion is either banned or strictly controlled by the state.
*You need permission to travel outside the country.
*Food is poor quality and limited in supply--markets often only have a few items on sale. People literally get sick and experience malnutrition from the shitty diet.
*There are no free elections and government officials do not have to answer to the public.
*All media, art, and entertainment must conform to the state agenda--this includes glorifying the party or the leader and schlocky propaganda art of muscled factory workers while demonizing whatever ideologies/people/countries the party wants demonized.
*The print and electronic media only report whatever news the state wants you to hear while not mentioning what they don't want you to know.
*There is no independent judiciary and you do not have a right to a fair trial or legal representation.
*Hotels and apartments are bugged, so be careful what you say.
*Some cities are "closed" meaning you cannot visit them without official permission.

>>68299012
Romanian anon told me they export more in a single month now than they did in an entire year in the 1980s.

>>68299634
>We did as well, and less fat. Even outcasts left their homes to ride bikes or go to the mall to play video games in the arcades. The internet slowly turned people into amorphous blobs.

Wait, didn't 80s neckbeards spend weeks in their basement with no exposure to natural light trying to beat Wizardry on their Apple II?

>>68304047
Dont forget the productivity competitions and hero worshipping fast workers, or productivity quotas to better the people , or "ideologically correct" music and "jokes"

>>68299718
>Soviet nostalgia
>Hungary

It was only more loose because Hungarians were very nationalistic and independent, nobody actually liked communism or soviet rule-hence the revolution that the russians put down with tanks

You are right about east Germany,even the soviets thought they went too far

>>68307186
it doesn't necessarily need to be humans fucking each other over. sure, petty thievery and conning reduces the viability of the system, but it could still work. a concrete example: the building i am living in right now is a brick building, but every floor has one layer of bricks missing. why? because someone snatched the bricks, built himself a house and the original building was built with what was left. the plan was fulfilled on paper. it's not a catastrophe... another example: during some years there was a terrible drought and crops didn't mature, but the plan, it had to be fulfilled so what people did was just forge papers. everybody up the ladder was happy, but now there was a large deficiency. another region which was supposed to be growing maize just under produced because sure, on paper it looks good that they will produce a certain amount per period, but in reality maize just doesn't grow here, at all. that's not a big problem tho because on paper you can make everything grow really well. another example: a factory was supposed to produce a batch of ships, from materials mined somewhere else, but the mine collapsed and there was no material. but hey, guess what? the ships did get produced according to the plan. you see where i'm going with this? life was just so surreal you'd have to be insane to feel normal about it.

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>>68297551
>no one ever tries REAL communism

can't wait for you commies to get rounded up and gassed

>>68299076
not in russia kek,most of my family had good education and they werent any top leaders but common people

>>68315164
That sounds hilarious

>>68316719
about the maize. it grew really short and weak, but moscow was determined that it can be done! why? because hrutchov said so. so they sent word that we need to do a little propaganda video about our success to motivate the doubters. the camera crew sort of improvised, they dug a really big hole and put the reporter in the hole so he would look very small compared to the maize and shot only diagonal shots of the endless fields of success. moscow was very happy!

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>>68316934
That is quite funny, sort of like how in Germany they timed how long it took a worker to make something then expected him to be able to do it in half that time in order to increase productivity and then blamed saboteurs when this didn't happen

>>68317245
oh the soviets went full retard on it. you ever hear about these five year plans? well, it turns out that it is possible to produce five years worth of labor within only a year! don't believe me? it says on the papers that it was done... it was quite aptly called 'lööktöö' which translates roughly to punching the workload in the face

>>68299634
>Most Americans didn't have access to the internet or even know what it was in the 80's.
Prodigy/CompuServe

>>68317619
Was it much worse in eesti than say Poland or Hungary?

Life in both Latin America and Eastern Europe was better before the 1980s because we could maintain our own industry, since there was little competition with Asia.

Many people in Brazil also tell that life was better during the military regime, and that wasn't communist, but the opposite, a right-wing regime that persecuted communists. It's just that we had industry, and with that came jobs and opportunities for social mobility.

Now all industries are closed and went to Asia, and the only jobs left are as agricultural worker in the countryside or call centre operator in the big cities.

>>68317831
i think it might have actually been better here than other parts of the union. we we're always seen as the 'progressive' and 'advanced' region. but i can't honestly pass judgment on it because i lack personal experience and i haven't taken much interest in how it was elsewhere

>>68297508
i don't know, tell me about that revolution hungary (1956)?

>>68318013
Were you allowed Jeans? And did radio statements have mandatory political broadcasts?

>>68297508
russia had more resources than rest of eastern european counties so most things were cheaper

>>68318279
*stations

>>68318279
jeans were neither allowed nor forbidden, they were a part of gray economy much like everything else that came from the west and which, according to the regime, was only produced to demoralize and taint the spirit of the soviet human
all broadcasts were political by nature and censored heavily unless it was mundane things like the weather or commercials of all those lovely things that were supposed to be in abundance, but in reality didn't even exist

>>68318536
Sounds great, got to love how the soviets labelled things like the concepts of love or escape as not compatible with the new soviet man

>>68318154
it was really shit before but got better after

You missed your board shill.

>>>/pol/ is that way.

>>68316934
Isn't corn a major crop in Ukraine though?

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>>68321505
Check your maps. Corn doesn't grow well in Russia because it's too far north. The summers aren't hot enough and the growing season is too short. Note that most corn is grown in regions around 40 degrees north.

>>68316934
Happened in North Korea as well.

>climate isn't suitable for growing rice
>however, Kim Il Sung has this romantic vision of Korean peasants sitting in their traditional tile roof homes eating rice and meat soup
>whatever the Great Leader says, goes
>the rice won't grow and they also have massive erosion from cutting down trees on the hillsides to dig rice paddies

>>68321505
quite possibly so. we actually have cultivars engineered for colder climates growing on test fields too, but the kernels still look no where near what one would expect so i believe they are used only as cattle feed at the moment. this year i was hoping to snatch a few pods from a nearby field to see how it tastes, but there were only the stalks, no pods.
back in the day however, there wasn't much science or really any rational thought behind growing it. it was as if they were supposed to grow out of sheer respect towards the regime.

>>68304047
>no competition
and why is this even bad?
>no possibility to get rich
if the state provides everything you need, why would you be rich?

>>68321505
No, wheat is.