Arabs of Int, Do your people regret becoming Arabised?

>>54020069
NOT AT ALL

AKHİ I'M FREE
VÜ AKHİ ENTE HURRUN

Successful conquest clearly demonstrates superiority of Arabs.

They should be glad they were uplifted into Arabdoom.

>>54020069
Not enough arabization survivors around

>>54020069
i'm proud to be part of the strongest race on earth

arab pride world wide

>>54020166
Actually the Arabs only managed to conquer much of the middle east due to the constant wars between Persia, the Sassanid and Greece which left everyone weak. Mohammed was lucky in that regard.

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>>54020480

Arabization was also accompanied by Negrification. Movements of tribes recruited from Yemen and then massive Islamic slave trading with Zanj has made much of peninsular Arabia as Apefreakan as North Apefreaka, and even Levantine Arabs have widespread black mixture.

>>54020409
Is that why most Arab countries lag far behind everyone else in innovation and development inspite of the riches of Oil. Just face it, barefoot beduin Arab culture pretty much retarded the middle east for hundreds of years. And dont mention hurr durr Golden Age, most of that knowledge came from civilisations Arabs conquered. Islam limited scientific research as it usually contradicted Quranic fairy tales

>>54020480
correction: Not greece, but the Byzantines

Arabs have been in the Levant/Mesopotamia hundreds of years beforre Islam.

>>54020825
you're right, we're plague

and we're coming for your civilization, europe is already done for, it won't be long until we reach even your remote desert

>>54021043
*before

Notice how the Arabization was only successful in regions where the climate and geography were mostly similar to that of Arabian peninsula? They could only force their culture and ways if the natives already lived at least mildly similar lives.

Caucasus, India, Europe and Sub-Saharan Africa weren't made Arab.

My grandma is an Arab of mixed Assyrian and Sephardi descent.

I think the homogenization of Middle Eastern cultures is really sad, and comparable to the social destruction of the Americas.

Kurds, Copts, Assyrians, and Mizrahim deserve props for resisting this.

>>54020726
As well as Eurification. Semi-free Slavic peasants were imported by the Abbasids after the Zanj revolted, and later Arab states welcomed hundreds of thousands of Turkic and Caucasian soldiers from modern-day Russia, Kazakhstan, and Georgia

>>54021162
what assyrians?

ITT: Not one arab

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>ITT
>Arab master race
>Arab pride
Truly the master race

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>>54021140
>Sudan Black Arab

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>>54021620
>We wuz Arabz and shiet

meeeeeh I don't care.

It's better than saying:

WE WUZ SUMERIAN SND SHIEET

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>>54021821
Why woudl,you say that akhi, the Sumerians were a great people

>>54021043
True, just not to the extent of the later Arabization. Funnily enough, the Islamic conquests basically destroyed the Ghassanids and Lakhmids as distinct people both.

>>54021620
not sub saharan

berber

yes

>Family lived in mesopotamia while keeping their identity over 2000 years
I guess it was a good time to come back before being fucked with ISIS and convert or die

>>54022008

Because Kuwaitis have nothing to do with Sumerians at all.

Also, that picture is stupid

>1st written law (code of Hammurabi)

Hammurabi was Babylonian, not Sumerian. Also, his codex was not the "1st written law", that is the Code of Ur-Nammu, which is indeed Sumerian.

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>>54022008

>>54020480
My favorite meme together with the "Islamic Golden Age was Greek/Persian/Indian" meme.
which one do you like more?

>>54022173
Tell me why hasnt there been significant scientific progress in the islamic world for the last 400 years.

>>54022371
tell me how that is related to something that happened more than a millenium ago.

and to answer your question, because scientific progress is closely tied to economic prosperity, which is tied to politic power. Muslims have no politic power since the 17th (maybe, if we stretch it, 18th) century.

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>>54022154
Your people owe persians a favour. Perhaps Israel should de-islamise Persia one day.

>>54022162
>Because Kuwaitis have nothing to do with Sumerians at all.

some people actually believe that

>>54022530
>The Ottoman empire didnt exist apparently

Sure buddy, wateva you say

>>54022633
Have you ever read anything about late Ottoman history?
Are you claiming Ottomans had politic power after 17th/18th century? Not even ottomanists claim that.
nice dodge anyway

>>54022719
>Are you claiming Ottomans had politic power after 17th/18th century?
You talk like that was just some mystical accident, rather than a failure of culture

>>54020069
arabs are freed slaves that belonged to the jews. That's why a lot of them have semitic system and some jews have black remnant features like jewfro hair or big split lips

>>54022826
>You talk like that was just some mystical accident
Not at all, it is you who wants to assume that.
But the main reason Ottomans weakened (and every other power) is because their enemies got stronger. The Europeans discovered and exploited the New World, as a result of the newly found riches, they gained superiority against Ottomans.

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>>54022719
im sure the Ottomans had no power or wealth. The Ottomans were the poor man of Europe, despite the fact that they had comquered one of the most strategic regions in Eurasia (Constantinople). Your culture doesnt encourage scientific enquiry since it might contradict the edicts of islam. Allah knows best I guess.

>>54022530
>because scientific progress is closely tied to economic prosperity, which is tied to politic power
Unless you're T*rk

>>54020069
Really it's a shame that Islam didn't fall early on.
I'd like to see an independent Himyarite/Sabaean nation in Yemen today, with Catholic Berber kingdoms and an Orthodox Egypt in Africa.

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>>54022949
Its a shame modern day islamo-turks like urself dont see the fallacies of religion, like your great leader Attaturk who I admire.

>>54020069
No, fuck off. You're absolutely fucking delusional.
Egypt is a host of many pan arab movements and arab nationalists.

>>54023320

>some Australian Lebbo shit trying to teach a Turk about his own history

Topkek Lebbo scum

>>54021140
They also spoke related languages

>>54023460
>>54023460
>Stockholm syndrome, or capture-bonding, is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending and identifying with the captors.

>>54023590
Why dont you go bomb another building Achmed.

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>Islamisation was always followed by Arabisation

I feel like this is happening in Malaysia. Fucking Arabs. I hope they die out along with their sandnigger culture.

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>>54020069
>Eteocypriot
>semitic

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>>54023590
And Im proud to be a lebonese christian. Weve maintained our faiths for a thousand years of Islamic oppression. AND FAK YU PHEONICIAN MASTER RACE

>>54024105
fuk typing on my phone

>>54023952
Its happening in Somalia, Indonesia, pakistan, Afghanistan, Central Asia. Most muslim countries now use the Arabic script and dress like Arabs. Islam forces you to embrace Arab culture at the expense of your own native culture.

>>54024105

>Islamic oppression

If they wanted they could cut every christian and throw it to mediterranea

>>54024903
What, so then they could give every christian majority nation in Europe a reason to invade Lebanon to defend the oldest Christian community in the world.

>>54020146

I don't know if I'd call Turkic and Persian countries arabified.

You obviously have a lot of things in common but your hatred for them makes you somewhat better. Still just as ruthless and brutal but more civilized and less cultish somehow.

>>54025091

There was already 9 crusades, most were won by muslims, if they wanted they could slaughter every christian they saw after the capture of jerusalem by Saladin

>>54024903
Achmed, why dont you go back to your shithole of a country and stop bothering the poor frenchmen, Im sure one of your cousins is an ISIS terrorist considering ISIS is made up of so many North Africans with French citizenship.

http://www.ibtimes.com/islamic-state-french-jihadists-nearly-half-european-extremists-joining-isis-are-1874892

If Europe had balls, you would be on a boat to Morroco by now.

>>54025453

I would if they didnt settled my country and fucked it for 140 years, btw algerians (berber+ arabs, mixed, sahraouis..) has chased their "oppressors", unlike you mozarab pussies

>>54023952

Tbh Islam will become a 3rd world status symbol in the future.
There'll be the modern-futuristic world in places like america, europe and east asia, and the rest will be a overpopulated islamic hell where people live like in ancient times.

We're not cucked by the Arabs since our Islam mixed with traditional cultures tho

>>54025384
Saladin was a kurd, lets not forget that. And my community has survivee massacres and religious violence instigated by so called spiritual leaders for hundreds of years. The only reason your people didnt wipe us out because Islamic regimes depended on the Jizya tax on Christians and Jews for their state revenue since muslims were far too retarded to create viable businesses.

>>54025590

>fucked it for 140 years

They gave you civilization and you guys are pissed because of that.

>>54025780

>the Jizya tax on Christians and Jews for their state revenue since muslims were far too retarded to create viable businesses.

Nice meme, that tax was here to justify your existence, otherwise zealous muslims would kill you in a blink.
You should thank Muhammad, Byzantines would have killed you anyway for not following orthodox christianism

>>54025781

>take old cities
>use natives to work in field without pay
>dont give them citizen rights
>"civilization"

Its like saying Al andalus bring civilization to portuguese because they builded beautiful monuments

really wish we could kill all muslims

>>54022719
>17th/18th century?
yes
you should say the 18th-19th century m8

1600s and 1700s the Ottomans were very powerful and arguably still the dominant Western power with France close behind

>>54026025
>Byzantines would have killed you anyway for not following orthodox christianism

That's a good meme considering how many times they flipflopped between Arianism

>>54026335
But i love the irish people

>>54026025
I am an easteen orthodox christian, and most other lebanese christian sects are closely related, so theres no significant ideological clashes.

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>>54022719
when the Ottomans were at their height they still rejected the very same things that would eventually lead Europe to dominance.

the Renaissance was not just an Italian-European event, it hit the middle east and Turks as well.

Bayezid II for example went about a major reform an created massive cultural uplifting project in conjunction with Venetians who occupied his court, this was somewhat continued by Selim the Grim, but ultimately under Suleiman (the absolute peak of the Ottoman Empire btw) the changes were unanimously rejected as being "unislamic", and since presumably it was Islam which delivered their success, Suleiman and similar rulers returned back to the authority of the Ulema

similar such events happened in Persia and Mughal India, these were not backwards places and in nearly every way more advanced than Europe (they were called the Gunpowder empires for a reason) yet they wallowed in their past success and ignored the dramatic shifts going on in Europe which would lead to their rise in the 18th century.

>>54025191
>Turkey
>T*rkic
let me laff

>>54026706
also I should include Mehmed II before Bayezid as he effectively started the entire trend and (arguably) the Renaissance itself as an international event

>>54026969

What would you call yourself then ? desu you're more persian than turkic but I thought you Turks liked to masturbate to the thought that you're the same as turkic chinks.

>>54027099
We wuz Hittites n'shit

>>54027099
Genetically= Anatolian (close to armenians)
Culturally= Greek, Armenian, Persian with little t*rkic influence
Linguistically= Turkic

>>54026706

This has nothing to do with islam, its for economical reasons.

Europe didnt developped because the mediterranea was controlled by ottomans, when they discovered america, their economy was boosted, even Columb's first plan was to reach india without passing through mediterranea and turkish territory.

And Renaissance was possible because muslims found the ancient greek/roman texts and traduced it.

>>54027232
>This has nothing to do with islam
I specifically said why it has to do with Islam

ultimately in Islam God/creation are unknowable and the only objective truth is the Quran, which cannot be disproven or debated with regards to "alternate" interpretation.

this is in stark contrast with Christian ideas where the Bible was very much up for debate and the middle ages were full of such conflicts over seemingly inane trivialities reguarding the nature of the divine and the word.

such things happened in Islam as well since its only human to fight and debate, but in the end the Ulema was always superior and the final primal authority which people were free to ignore, but never superseded.

this is why the Islamic world always has a cyclical nature to it, of growth then retraction, it is very good at maintaining and expanding existing wealth, but not creating new sources such as in Europe where Christian ideas lead to the rise of Capitalism and ultimately finance which made old sources of wealth redundant.

I don't mean to imply that Capitalism and industrialization are both net Goods, but really Europe made the Faustian bargain which lead to unparalleled supremacy which the Muslims refused to take, preferring instead to rely upon the traditions which carried them thus far.

even today people confuse "radical" Islam wich some reactionary/regressive ideology when in fact it is exceedingly modernist, that is a modernist re-embrace of the Ulema in the hopes that these ideas would halt the social decay which is happening there.

>>54027195
aka we're not gooks

>>54022592
Pre Durka Islam Iran was our ally too, really wish Islam didn't spread

>>54021140

They also reached those regions later than they reached the rest of MENA.

Its kind of funny and sad at the same time that Ethiopia has more semitic languages than the whole middle east

>>54024903
That's what France should do to Muslims

>>54028116
Sorry to many liberal jews in the media.

>>54027657

>ultimately in Islam God/creation are unknowable and the only objective truth is the Quran, which cannot be disproven or debated with regards to "alternate" interpretation.$

Quran says science is very important, because its knowing Allah's creation. Science notion is omnipresent in islam.

>such things happened in Islam as well since its only human to fight and debate, but in the end the Ulema was always superior and the final primal authority which people were free to ignore, but never superseded.

Just as how the pope federates european countries, but Ullema's authority can be contested if someone shows good arguments
>
this is why the Islamic world always has a cyclical nature to it, of growth then retraction, it is very good at maintaining and expanding existing wealth, but not creating new sources such as in Europe where Christian ideas lead to the rise of Capitalism and ultimately finance which made old sources of wealth redundant.

Catholicism didnt matched with capitalism (Monks had to stay poor and christianism insists on not being rich), you mistake with Protestantism, which is a creation of american settlers (of every european countries : dutch, english...).

>on't mean to imply that Capitalism and industrialization are both net Goods, but really Europe made the Faustian bargain which lead to unparalleled supremacy which the Muslims refused to take, preferring instead to rely upon the traditions which carried them thus far.

Its a natural process, after european discovered america and developped their industries, protestantism mutated to republicanism, and the american and french revolution replaced christianism as a political power.

If muslims would have discovered america before christian, it would be the same process, except they would not be republicans, but something like sufis i suppose.

>>54026464
he's not wrong though
the Byzantine state was notoriously shitty to the point Christian's elsewhere would rather be ruled by moslems

>>54028252
Die hard marxist that refused to believe that people can be ideologically driven.

>>54028357

Ideologies needs money to expand, and when they become useless to economical development, they tend to be replaced by "bankable" ideologies.

>>54028116
I second this

>>54028257
I'm not denying that, they had plenty of heresy drives and lost the Levant specifically because they were terrible rulers and in fact had their own citizens defeat them in many Naval battles

But to say they were Orthodox Zealots that imposed a strict religious continuity on penalty of death is a bit too far

>>54028252
Tell me why most Islamic countries ban textbooks with an evolution section. And yes, Itijihad leaves a lil space for revisionism, but it always limited by the Quranic texts which is seen as an infallible source of knowledge. Yet its riddled with errors.

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran#Geocentricism

Itijihad has limits,as shown throughout the centuries.

>>54028252
>If muslims would have discovered america before christian
they were aware of it and possibly before European kingdoms were

the Turks at the very least had full maps of the New World coastline within a decade or so of the initial Spanish voyages, they just didn't see any value there compared to the Eastern trade routes.


as for science, yes Islamic science was influential but it ultimately was limited for as much political as religious reasons.
the biggest reason why Europe was able to rise out of its muck was how decentralized the entire area was so a particularly stupid king or Pope couldn't really do much when it came to heretical Germans or Dutchmen, that and Christianity put no real emphasis upon the State so individuals were far more within their rights to do as they wished with their faith.

in Islam though one can understand God's creation, they can never disprove what is said in the Quran as it is 100% accurate, nor can they discuss the nature of God or the Divine, even taboos relating to the Human form severely limited Islamic science, especially in medicine which hit a stalling point due to the inability to dissect humans.

as well in Islam the Islamic State is a core pillar of the faith in securing an environment for which Muslims can live and practice. Without an Islamic government Islam can never remain sufficiently comfortable, this is why Islamic communities abroad have such political/legal issues with their non-muslim hosts. this means the authority of the state dominates the political realm and the leader (king/president/Imam) can politically enforce what is largely optional within the personal faith. essentially the political unity and unwavering faith created stagnation and an unwillingness to entertain different ideas beyond mere fancy.


also such an event as the Reformation could not have happened within Islam as again there is nothing up for debate when it comes to the Quran.

even the Sunni-Shia divide is a political one

>>54028239
Fuck them too but don't act like Jews make up the majority of liberals, if Europeans weren't cucked lefty fags then this wouldn't happen no matter how many leftist Jews are in their media

>>54028527
And Germany to rapefugees

>>54028906
desu people who blame "da joos" don;t really see the whole picture

its not that they are Jewish (because many of them have secularized to the point they can hardly be called Jewish) but that they represent the Liberal cosmopolitan elite whom are oversocialized, hyper-materialists regardless of their faith

>all these butthurt atheists
Man every day my Deen pays off

>>54029180
>atheists
proud Catholic

>>54021491
He's like 80% Indian lol

>>54029021
>oversocialized
They know exactly what they're doing flooding the market with cheap labour. More idiots to take on debt and protect against the declining birth rates in Europe.

>>54028841

>Tell me why most Islamic countries ban textbooks with an evolution sectio

Source please, dont tell me wahhabis because its a wave that appeard as a reaction to western development, so they are in perpetual deny of reality. Other islamic ideologies insists on science development.

>>54028847

>the Turks at the very least had full maps of the New World coastline within a decade or so of the initial Spanish voyages, they just didn't see any value there compared to the Eastern trade routes.

Agreed, its an ottoman political and economical error. Even Columb didnt knew there was so much gold in the new world at his first trip.

>as for science, yes Islamic science was influential but it ultimately was limited for as much political as religious reasons.

Both are linked as every political power has his own religious council. But in the end, islamic golden age stopped at mongol invasion and the destroying of Baghdad, it was a s violent as Rome fall.

>the biggest reason why Europe was able to rise out of its muck was how decentralized the entire area was so a particularly stupid king or Pope couldn't really do much when it came to heretical Germans or Dutchmen, that and Christianity put no real emphasis upon the State so individuals were far more within their rights to do as they wished with their faith.

Agreed, islam really controls every moment of life, and is very centralized, but muslim governors are the only elements to blame on muslim civilization decreasing, not islam in itself.

>
in Islam though one can understand God's creation, they can never disprove what is said in the Quran as it is 100% accurate, nor can they discuss the nature of God or the Divine, even taboos relating to the Human form severely limited Islamic science, especially in medicine which hit a stalling point due to the inability to dissect humans.

Give me one source, i dont understand your point, science was never stopped by islam dogma, except with backwards ideologies (1)

>>54020326
there's a couple of assyrians and berbers on /int/, and probably a copt or two.

>>54029411
Some do
Some don't

The average talking head likely does not
An over socialization is important for turning these immigrants into docile young workers/consumers
More useful than Europeans since they have no connection to the land or society and don't particularly care what the elite does to abuse it.

>>54028847

Wahhabism which appeard as a reaction to western development.

>
as well in Islam the Islamic State is a core pillar of the faith in securing an environment for which Muslims can live and practice. Without an Islamic government Islam can never remain sufficiently comfortable, this is why Islamic communities abroad have such political/legal issues with their non-muslim hosts. this means the authority of the state dominates the political realm and the leader (king/president/Imam) can politically enforce what is largely optional within the personal faith. essentially the political unity and unwavering faith created stagnation and an unwillingness to entertain different ideas beyond mere fancy.

As said, i agree on that point, islam demands a very centralized government, but its not always a bad thing. Anyway its an other debate. (2)

>>54029438
Gold wasn't the only thing
Arab sugarcane brought to the New World raked in massive profit

If anyone there had realized its value even a handful of Muslim Caribbean territories could have bankrolled the already wealthy empire.

>>54029561
These people don't intergrate, I've seen it myself. Migration has been a net loss but a economic gain for western countries.

>>54029438
I don't think that Islam is incapable of moving out of its rut, nor that following Europe is the right solution as Liberals think it is, but for the time being Islam is going to be a real shots how until the turmoil is over.

>>54029641

But it implied to pass through christian controlled waters, and pirate risks,so it would probably cost too much, i suppose thats why ottomans didnt developped that trade route.

>>54029438
>A Saudi 12th-grade textbook mentions evolution by name only where it claims that Charles Darwin has "denied Allah's creation of humanity".[34] The rest of the textbook focuses on descriptions of the taxonomic ranks: it makes no further mention of evolution, only quoting Qur'an verses as relevant to certain groups of animals.[34]

Thats the problem, most muslim countries in MENA who arent Shia are becoming wahbhists and adopting SA literalism. Iran teaches evolution tho

>>54029668
Net loss for the pesky middle class who occupied positions of power for far too long so far as the elite is concerned

Making Europe a servile conflict ridden mongrel society makes it easier to control and allows wealth to be concentrated

>>54029609
You seem like the quintessential islamic apologist

>>54020326
I worked at a Persian restaurant owned by a couple of Christian Assyrians. There are a good amount of them around here, but they usually just blend in as "Persians" unless you ask them further, but at least that's better than Ar*bs.

>>54030639
Iranians are actually quite reasonable and tolerant towards ethnic minority communities, and they didnt force them to convert or persianise them. Thats why you assyrians, Separdic Jews, represented in the Iranian parliament.

>>54020905
Not Byzantines, Romans :^)

>>54029868

There arent only wahhabis and shias, there are 4 great doctrines in islam (maliki, hanbali, hanafi, sha'fi) without counting other movements like ibadis etc..

>>54031976
But theyre not as dominant, some are seen as "innovation" of Islam which is kufr and their followers are seen as heretics by the sunni wahbhist establishment of SA

>>54032098

They actually are largely dominant, like 70% of the muslim world, and these doctrines see wahhabism as "khawarij" -people who go out of the right path - as there was "khawarij" in the early times of islam, they caused a lot of trouble in the muslim state and even the prophet warned muslims about them

>>54028906
How about stuffing them in ovens instead?